Respect

[James Deuce]

It has been a horrible week and while I support any initiative that will lead to reduced accident, injury and death rates, could you all PLEASE stop trying to analyse the accidents from last weekend.

I understand the desire to communicate your viewpoint, and I will talk about these issues face to face with a mate, but I'm not ready to be preached at in writing on KB thanks. I used to preach constantly, but the reality is no one listens, everyone under 25, even those who've been to a funeral recently, are 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

I could not BELIEVE the post from a certain Upper Huttian GSX250 rider who wanted to extract more power from his GSX when we'd just buried three riders mere hours before who could have handed him his arse on a plate whilst riding a 1980 Suzuki A100, irrespective of what the Upper Huttian was riding.

There's another chunk of riders who's acceptance of these accidents as part and parcel of the motorcycling "experience" makes Dostoevsky look like a bright and happy soul.

But they're all people who have experienced a nasty shock and none of them deserve to be lectured about how stupid they are RIGHT NOW.

Just leave it alone for a bit.

[Motu]

I beg to differ seriously on that one Jim....but I have stayed out of this whole thing,and will continue to do so.

[James Deuce]

I beg to differ seriously on that one Jim....but I have stayed out of this whole thing,and will continue to do so.

Right now is not the time. I have PMed my reason, but given the largely self-involved nature of the members on this site and the lack of propriety displayed by most people on here, and the sensitive nature of what I'm trying to imply I haven't posted those reasons openly.

Despite being given some strong hints on how to behave over the next few weeks for reasons that are more important than their own desire to communicate their temporary behaviour modification, people have posted some stuff that WILL be hurtful to people that don't deserve it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I could not BELIEVE the post from a certain Upper Huttian GSX250 rider who wanted to extract more power from his GSX when we'd just buried three riders mere hours before who could have handed him his arse on a plate whilst riding a 1980 Suzuki A100, irrespective of what the Upper Huttian was riding.

But they're all people who have experienced a nasty shock and none of them deserve to be lectured about how stupid they are RIGHT NOW.

Just leave it alone for a bit.


Sorry Jim...but aren't you lecturing this chap?
I do agree now's not the time.

Pete

[xwhatsit]

You know, I have a little bit of experience with this grieving stuff, so don't slam me and red rep me for this, but I think that lambasting the GSX250 rider who wanted to get an extra couple of HP out of his 25HP bike to keep up with motorway traffic is being a little oversensitive. I know you're very upset by the events of the past week, but I fail to see how somebody who wants to know about drilling holes in his airbox has anything to do with disrespecting the three who passed away. I don't doubt that those three could beat him on an A100, but what's that got to do with him wanting a little more power from his 250? Nowhere did I see in his post he wanted to ride around at 200kph doing wheelstands, or anything irresponsible like that. Also, how was he to know what time the funerals were? He's new to the site, it's not his job to look that kind of stuff up. I know I've pissed you off now, and probably others too, after all you have been here long enough to be considered KB `royalty'.

Are you saying that I should refrain from asking lb99 questions about the new camshaft he's sent me, about whether I should re-jet my carb to allow for the extra oomph it gives me, for some extra HP? I understand you're pretty upset, but in this case I think you're overreacting. Your response seems faintly American, faintly WTC-esque (remember when they tried to ban people from playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, because you could fly 747s into buildings?).

Sorry if I sound a little rude -- it's not that I'm unaffected by the events, I didn't know the three at all, but I was pretty choked up in honesty reading about it all. But I think there's no need to yell at a newbie fitting an after-market exhaust to his GSX250 for being `disrespectful'.

[R6_kid]

I think the main thing is that those who have passed on are not forgotten... end of story.

[jonbuoy]

Thats OTT this is still an open biker site, I didn't know any of the people involved, and I don't know what happened - nor do I want to, its none of my business. Everyone respects that some people are feeling sensitive at the moment and most of us are trying to stay out of it.

[Sniper]

Well said Jim

[pervert]

I used to preach constantly, but the reality is no one listens, everyone under 25, even those who've been to a funeral recently, are 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

Hahahahahaha, why the age of 25?

There are plenty of people well over 25 who still aren't afraid to get hurt/even die, and plenty of people under who are.

What a silly statement.

[Whynot]

Hahahahahaha, why the age of 25?

There are plenty of people well over 25 who still aren't afraid to get hurt/even die, and plenty of people under who are.

What a silly statement.

cause thats the number the insurance companies use i guess .....

[pervert]

cause thats the number the insurance companies use i guess .....

Shit, I've but a few months to go, I better start caring about my well being a lot more...:mellow:

[RC1]

[QUOTE=Jim2;854797]
I could not BELIEVE the post from a certain Upper Huttian GSX250 rider who wanted to extract more power from his GSX
why can you not RESPECT this mans choice to get more power from his bike , there is no need to bring him into this thread...

[James Deuce]

Because I watched him leave a funeral and cross the centre line twice. Good enough reason?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=855405&postcount=48

There's the other reason. I hope you're all very proud of yourselves.

[RC1]

must be good to be purfect like yourself aye jim2

[James Deuce]

I'm not perfect. Far from it.

[xwhatsit]

After hearing about the way that GSX rider was carrying on, riding into blind hairpins over the centre-line, I actually tend to agree with Jim2 in many ways, despite my first post. On the basis of his post alone, I was a little confused and annoyed that he was getting blamed for being disrespectful, but after looking at the bigger picture (I mean he did just attend a funeral, then come and post here a few hours later asking how to make his bike go faster, after riding unsafely), I see Jim2's point here. Of course, I don't think it's necessary to be quite so... public about it... but I can see where he's coming from.

Apologies for the earlier rant, even if my reasoning still stands in some cases.

[James Deuce]

I shouldn't have illustrated my point like that, so if anyone needs to apologise it's me.

[yungatart]

Why should apologies be necessary, when all you are doing is looking out for your fellow riders?

[Sniper]

must be good to be purfect like yourself aye jim2

What makes you think yourself better?


I shouldn't have illustrated my point like that, so if anyone needs to apologise it's me.
I agree with yungatart, why apologise?

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Fair point made Jim. You can present a reasoned argument to the forum. whether some of them choose to take it on board id up to them. Ride safe everyone !

[ceebie13]

At the end of the day this is a public forum. None of us as contributors have any right to chastise anyone else for their point of view (well except the Mods, and even then you could question whether it is a "right" rather than a "duty"). Furthermore we cannot dictate to other KBers about what is right and wrong...what is common decency...what is disrespectful etc etc. Isn't it a democratic right to freedom of speech? If the writers of some posts are ignorant of the fact that what they write might offend or be disrespectful then that is a weakness in them. On an open forum like this you are always going to get that I'm afraid. In my particular case, I could agree with Jim2. But I suspect that what we are witnessing in his thread is his reaction to his grief and he too is using his right to voicing his opinion. What he/we can't do in voicing that opinion is dictate to others, so if we feel inclined to do that maybe the best advice is to stay out of it.

[skelstar]

Well, tech its Spankme's forum and he chooses the mods to uphold his guidelines. Its not public 'owned', we are guests here...but then thats a separate issue.

No need to apologise J2. If these guys haven't worked you out yet then maybe they should sit back and listen for a bit. Friends don't judge friends on their posts.

[James Deuce]

Freedom of Speech is not the freedom to hurt others. Freedom of Speech does not imply leaving good manners at the door, or thinking only about your own needs. This thread was about trying to get people to see that sometimes you have to do something that goes against the grain, not matter how wrong it may be in principal. It was too much to hope for though and I've been left feeling like King Canute.

This wasn't a reaction based on my grief, I've already done that elsewhere, and this thread was about someone else's grief.

[skelstar]

This wasn't a reaction based on my grief, I've already done that elsewhere, and this thread was about someone else's grief.
[/LEFT]
We can't protect everyone that uses this forum. The grieving familys of our friends must be aware of what this site is about and understand the consequences of exposing themselves to it. Esp with the level of immunity/anonimity that it provides it users.

[The Stranger]

Hahahahahaha, why the age of 25?

There are plenty of people well over 25 who still aren't afraid to get hurt/even die, and plenty of people under who are.

What a silly statement.

Hear hear!

2 of the jerks which I refuse to ride with are well over the age of 25.

SOME of the young one's on the other hand are actually quite lucid.
Skid Mark, whilst he has (I believe desevedly) copped a lot of flack for his "riding style" had the brains to stop riding and bought a car. He tells me he did this because he couldn't trust himself not to cane it on a bike. Whilst not really that answer I would have hoped for, at least he can admit it and has taken action to avert a problem. In my view a big ups to Mark. Just try and stay alive in the cage now please mark.

There are a many over 25's who could and should take a lesson from Mark.

Some how though, I doubt they will.

Maybe we should have a user infraction for riding like a dick head?

[James Deuce]

25 is an acknowledged point where physical Brain development generally ceases and hormone production levels out.

The 25 factor has long been used by Government armed forces recruiting as the age where it becomes difficult to repeatedly stress troops, because reason is becoming a dominant factor in thought processes, as opposed to unreasoned responses to threats governed by endocrine system responses.

It isn't arbitrary and it is backed by Human development luminaries like Lord Winston.

However there are social factors, personality, and peer pressure involved in activities like motorcycling. Millions of years of instinctual responses can't be overridden by 150 years of technological progress either, so of course people over 25 can behave "badly". I never suggested otherwise, just that under 25 year olds KNOW they are immortal because their brain tells them so. Women are less afflicted by this syndrome, but by no means immune.

[Paul in NZ]

I've been left feeling like King Canute.


pfft - too hard on yourself again Jim. You may be a Prize Canute but you are far from being the King Canute..... :dodge:

(heh heh)

Paul N

[James Deuce]

Darn that Firefox spell checker!

[badlieutenant]

lets put jim on a stake and have a xmas/new years eve party!!

[Paul in NZ]

lets put jim on a stake and have a xmas/new years eve party!!


Um - you are starting to worry me now.....

[skelstar]

Did someone say steak?

Sorry, cant resist the Deuce Bigalow quotes

[badlieutenant]

Um - you are starting to worry me now.....

I really am surprised that your only just starting to worry. I think I thought I was in the other thread. but who can be sure, really

[vifferman]

On the other hand, someone who posts on here can't be expected to know everything that goes on / is posted elsewhere. I for one only check the new posts column, as I can't be stuffed reading everything that's been posted, so half the time (if not more), I have no idea what the heck people are talking about when they reference other threads / posts.

My personal opinion is "life goes on". Ooh ooh - and "people who contribute to KB by and large post a great deal of crap, so don't set your expectations too high".

[badlieutenant]

On the other hand, someone who posts on here can't be expected to know everything that goes on / is posted elsewhere. I for one only check the new posts column, as I can't be stuffed reading everything that's been posted, so half the time (if not more), I have no idea what the heck people are talking about when they reference other threads / posts.

My personal opinion is "life goes on". Ooh ooh - and "people who contribute to KB by and large post a great deal of crap, so don't set your expectations too high".
no offence vifferman but i think we are both on the wrong thread. as to ur statement, after 5446 posts you felt like pointing out the obvious ?

[Fatjim]

This is first time I've had to deal with this sort of thing in my life. But I know that in my white Kiwi culture we show respect for the families of the dead by not crapping over them.

Now some people have said some things that I imagine SOME of the people in those families would be upset by. No I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, but common decency dictates that you don't do it so soon, when there is a likelihood of distressing those already hurting the most. Some would also call this tact.

As a hypothetical and rather extreme example. Say I ran over a KB members kid in the car because he/she ran out in front of me. Would it be tactful to start a thread a week later saying that parents should be more responsible with their children. Sure it needs to be said somewhere, but here and then wouldn't be the right place. Friends of the family would want to throttle my, and rightly so.

Does anybody get my point?

[Paul in NZ]

Point is taken Jim old son but there is some confusion between two very different events. Despite appearances you cannot know how upset I am by all of this.... Brings back too many ghosts I thought I'd put to rest. Don't need any more eh?