Living Will....

[mstriumph]

I fully understand that, no matter what my level of skill is, there is a chance I may die whilst riding.

If that happens, the LAST thing i would want is the sort of shitfight currently raging on several KB threads after our most recent tragic bereavements.

I'm telling you NOW, whilst i'm still able to do so, that IMHO the living are of more concern than the dead .. and if there was ANY chance at all that open discussion of my death and the circumstances surrounding it [even - and perhaps ESPECIALLY - if i was to blame] could help prevent some other death then - please - i'd want that open discussion to take place without hinderance.

Because then, if i were still able to feel anything, i'm sure i'd feel that some good thing had come out of the whole sorry mess.

So, mods, i'm not planning on departing but, if it happens, please remember i said this.

[R6_kid]

Truth is the accident can only be discussed *accurately* by those that were there and witnessed it - everyone else is merely voicing there opinion... its a free world but a line should be drawn somewhere, perhaps those close to the victim(s) can make a post saying THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, please consider your actions carefully while riding. Or something to that effect (i.e learn from this persons mistakes).

To be honest, if an accident were caused by someones actions and is deemed to be there 'fault' then it would have to be something outside of ordinary 'safe riding' that would most likely keep you alive - things that we shouldnt be doing on the road anyway. But when death is involved it doesnt matter anymore (the fault), the only thing that matters is the cause, and that people take note of it.

At the end of the day 'accidents' happen when we dont fully consider the consequences of our actions (Or perhaps you evaluated all the consequences and took the risk anyway) and we therefore act in a way that is not in our own best interests (or perhaps the interest of others) and leave us open to the unforeseen, this is when it leaves our control and 'accidents' occur.

I'm not going to enter the debate on accidents past, i think accidents serve as reminders and lessons, "learn from others peril, dont at your own".

If i died on a the road, let those who survive me learn from my experience so that it doesnt become shared with them in the future.

If there is an objection by ANYONE that my circumstances are being discussed then have it pulled immediately and be a 'banned' topic, its not the kind of thing that some take lightly.

[Switch]

I agree in a way. I wouldn't mind if people were talking about my accident if i had one, but if they were to have a go at me, and if some member of my family was to read it and get upset, i would rather them being able to remove the thread. but then again, its also good for people to learn from others mistakes. Sorry im a little intoxicated, this might not make any sence.

[Gineen]

Did a double take on the wording. Thought provoking, and still thinking about it, as I don't know many KB'rs, but would prefer privacy methinks.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

let us be remembered for how we lived not how we died

[James Deuce]

I thought the issue at hand was fundamentally misunderstood and I was right.

None of these points have anything to do with why I am so fundamentally disappointed with KB at the moment. Not one.

[Edbear]

Probably one for the site owner to consider. It's human nature to discuss as has been done here and it's also human nature that some people are considerate and thoughtful, others are impetuous and tend to speak without thinking. Some are kind and understanding, some are "hard" and lack empathy.

We are a widely diverse bunch, reflecting the widely differing backgrounds of race, social/family upbringing and life's experiences and therefore will have widely differing views and opinions.

It's also human nature to want to know "why?" and "how?" and when someone highly respected and regarded for their skill and common-sense loses their life, we need to know our opinion of them was correct and that it truly was a tragic accident and not because they were acting silly, it confirms our belief in them.

We can all do dumb things at times and often we may think of our past actions and how "lucky" we have been, or past situations not our fault, where we are keenly aware they could have ended badly for us.

One thing that has come out in the last week, has been the comraderie that exists in this "world" of bikers and the passion for biking and the care for which many have for other bikers. It has brought out some conflict and angst, but I think this has been overshadowed by the huge number of posts showing care, sympathy and support for the families of the deceased.

We need to grieve and to express our grief and receive sympathy for our grief, it is human nature, as there also is an inbuilt need to express our love, sympathy and support for the families who have lost loved ones. If we can all make a conscious effort to think about what we say, forums such as this one can be an effective and respected outlet for this.

If I were to die or suffer serious injury I would have no objection to it being discussed here, as I take the "good" with the "bad" and recognise that there will be those who like me, either having met me personally or judged me by my online presence, and those who don't like me, (for the same reasons...:shutup: ). All I would ask would be that everyone does consider my family and close friends who may read what is posted and think before typing.

My 2c.

[Motu]

I couldn't care less.

As I don't ride with members of the site you probably wouldn't know anyway,apart from that I wasn't online anymore.My wife might come online to tell you what had happened,but she wouldn't follow any discussion,she just wouldn't be interested,nor would my kids.I'd be happy for you all to laugh at me getting my come uppance...it'd be a flash in the pan and forgotten in a week.

[apteryx_haasti]

I have voted "Yes - it could make people think" but to be honest it was a toss up between the two options of yes - it could make people think , and yes, but pull immediately if necessary.

It's pretty unlikely that anyone in my family would read it, and object - but even so, if the thread or whatever did degenerate and was not fulfilling the purpose of serving as a warning I wouldn't want it to continue as a bun fight.

Also, I don't know too many of these guys in the flesh (am meeting more) so it's perhaps not likely that the exact circumstances would be known.

A hard area and probably no right answers...

Edbear, R6_kid and mattmacaskill seem to be able to say things better than I; and busa_pete has a valid point too....

[sels1]

Its a public forum and people will talk regardless. Good people will say good things....not so good people will say not so good things...stupid people will say stupid things...and thats the way it is.
Fortunately the good ones seem to outnumber the rest here on KB. Long may it last.

[skelstar]

I'm with whoever said it before me...I would rather people discussed and celebrate the things that I did right, not what I ultimately did wrong.

I wouldn't want any discussion threads about my last cock-up.

[Freakshow]

I would say if it were not for this site I wont be riding and enjoying the road as much. We learn from our mistakes and those of other who share their experiences. If my mistake stops 5 others making the same mistake I want at least 100 others to know about it! As Sels said " Good people say good things" therefore keep it open, just delete individual posts of those who go to far.

[skelstar]

If my mistake stops 5 others making the same mistake I want at least 100 others to know about it!
That would nice it were true but I reckon its not.

If I had met my end because I passed a car on a blind corner and didnt make it, do you really think people are going to think twice before undertaking the same manouvre in the following weeks/months? Its likely that the reason I crashed is due to a fundamental mistake that everyone is already well aware of anyway...therefore the thread would only cause hurt and mis-information.

[Hitcher]

Once dead I would be well past caring about what people may think of me. It's how you choose to live your life that ultimately determines what people may think of you or remember you for.

Most, if not all of us have made stupid decisions and choices that should have left us dead, maimed or the rightful recipients of ridicule or scorn. The fact that we're still here posting on Kiwi Biker suggests that we have been either extremely fortunate or just downright lucky. Others of our number have paid a higher price for their moments of misfortune. We can defend ourselves against attacks on our reputation. They cannot. We should not forget that.

However that doesn't mean that we should not be able or allowed to discuss the events that contributed to the tragedy, after taking a suitable amount of time to grieve and pay our respects. Ghoulishness should not be allowed.

While the views of "families" are worth noting, what should also be remembered is that those "families" could not control the lives of the folk in question while they were alive and should not expect to be able to do so now they are dead.

[zadok]

Its a public forum and people will talk regardless. Good people will say good things....not so good people will say not so good things...stupid people will say stupid things...and thats the way it is.
Fortunately the good ones seem to outnumber the rest here on KB. Long may it last.

I agree. That's life.

[Blackbird]

I’m feeling a bit introspective and philosophical at the moment, so just bear with me….

I turn 60 in October 2007. As far as we know, Mrs B and I are in good nick and we certainly don’t act our age (whatever THAT is supposed to mean!). In fact, I don’t feel a lot different to when I was 20 except that I’m not cramming for exams in an alcohol-induced haze and the sex is more regular now despite the lies I might have told my mates all those years ago!

Have worked 55-60 hour weeks for the last 30 years or so and have had some fairly big responsibilities and budgets to look after in that period. By and large, work has been pretty enjoyable but after all that time and several changes in ownership of our company, you see the same mistakes being perpetuated from the very top and get a mite cynical about whether you’re making much of a difference. One definition of Insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

Coupled with that, plenty of colleagues have burned themselves out or have keeled over at a time when they should be enjoying their life a bit more and maybe easing up a touch. In the same vein, recent tragedies involving KB members have also had an impact on my thinking about the future.

It would be easy to carry on working but at the end of the day, it’s a waste of a life if you get too old and tired to pursue the things which are truly important and spiritually fulfilling.

We’ve decided that around the end of 2007, we’re going to quit our jobs and move permanently to Coromandel, living life come what may, including trying to put something into the community up there. Bikes of course, will still be a big part of our life. The prospect of saying goodbye to a working life and a regular routine is actually quite frightening. However, it’s not as scary as not having lived life to the full and bitterly regretting the fact when there was the chance to remedy it. That would be a real tragedy.

[Macktheknife]

If it helps someone to avoid the same situation as I had, then fine, but my rules of living are that my Family comes first, no matter what. The same rules applies in my death, if they (my family) object to the thread or its contents then I would want it removed.
I have no problem with the decisions made by the Mods recently, in fact I applaud them, it is very difficult to find a balance in these situations. This is not a democracy remember.
If my death helps someone, be it by organ donation or just awareness of a thing not to do, great! I believe that the value of my life will be found in the living though, not the dying.
Take care everyone.

[placidfemme]

I couldn't care less either. After the recent events I've given Sam my KB logon and password, in the event that the unspeakable should happen I've asked Sam to come online and use my logon to let you know whats happened (if you don't know already). I doubt Sam would continue to come online and check what all your responses are, so anything offensive to come from it wouldn't affect her... same with my family, they wouldn't come on here either... so in effect you'd only be bumming yourselves out, and not my loved ones.

If anyone could learn from a "said" tragic event, then thats the most I could ask for...

[MSTRS]

I'm with those that say let the discussion go on. It was my life and my death, not my family's. My immediate family are all on KB anyway, and the wider family have no part of it or this part of my life. I seldom get too involved with the bullshit side of KB, rather try to utilise my life/riding experience to mentor online or on the road, so why should my death not continue to serve in that capacity? My only insistence would be that a modicum of 'good taste' prevailed, otherwise pull those posts, but let the dissemblance continue unfettered.

[crashe]

For the record..... I only have a daughter and grandchild in my family.
(I do have siblings etc but pfffffffffftttttt as to where they are.)

My daughter will use my logon once she has hacked my password.
(if and when that happens... as I plan on living to well past the TON)

She may read the messages after that...
She would put in details of service time etc....

She also knows that I want bikes at my funeral....... as that is a part of me.

As to discussing what happens..... I would hope that everyone would be respectful as I do have non-biker friends who may come in either to login or post a message as they know I am a member of Kiwibiker.

[SwanTiger]

I like WINJA's signature. GIVE ME DEATH OR GLORY OR BOTH. Couldn't give a shit what people said about me on this Forum and I don't understand why others would find anything said offensive.

I also like the quote that goes something like "A man should never defend his dignity, his dignity should defend him".


For the record..... I only have a daughter and grandchild in my family.
(I do have siblings etc but pfffffffffftttttt as to where they are.)
You forgot about your Son! :shit:

[crashe]

You forgot about your Son! :shit:

Yes my bad, my honourary son (Inlinefour)

((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))) 'son' from 'maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa'

[boomer]

I’m feeling a bit introspective and philosophical at the moment, so just bear with me….

I turn 60 in October 2007. As far as we know, Mrs B and I are in good nick and we certainly don’t act our age (whatever THAT is supposed to mean!). In fact, I don’t feel a lot different to when I was 20 except that I’m not cramming for exams in an alcohol-induced haze and the sex is more regular now despite the lies I might have told my mates all those years ago!

Have worked 55-60 hour weeks for the last 30 years or so and have had some fairly big responsibilities and budgets to look after in that period. By and large, work has been pretty enjoyable but after all that time and several changes in ownership of our company, you see the same mistakes being perpetuated from the very top and get a mite cynical about whether you’re making much of a difference. One definition of Insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

Coupled with that, plenty of colleagues have burned themselves out or have keeled over at a time when they should be enjoying their life a bit more and maybe easing up a touch. In the same vein, recent tragedies involving KB members have also had an impact on my thinking about the future.

It would be easy to carry on working but at the end of the day, it’s a waste of a life if you get too old and tired to pursue the things which are truly important and spiritually fulfilling.

We’ve decided that around the end of 2007, we’re going to quit our jobs and move permanently to Coromandel, living life come what may, including trying to put something into the community up there. Bikes of course, will still be a big part of our life. The prospect of saying goodbye to a working life and a regular routine is actually quite frightening. However, it’s not as scary as not having lived life to the full and bitterly regretting the fact when there was the chance to remedy it. That would be a real tragedy.

WHY wait.. do it now! i have and its the best thing i've ever done :Punk:

[Blackbird]

WHY wait.. do it now! i have and its the best thing i've ever done :Punk:

Because I get a much better company payout if I wait until I'm 60. I'm keen to make the lifestyle switch but getting more loot is worth waiting for a few short extra months.:innocent:

[jonbuoy]

You would learn more from reading,practicing and attending training courses rather than studying one isolated case. To argue and discuss this is goulish, morbid and not cricket.

[MSTRS]

Sorry, but it was two cases that have triggered this situation. And to state one's wishes should it happen to me/whoever is simply realistic. No-one wants another shitstorm.

[mstriumph]

you are all - ok MSTRS? lol[/COLOR]] nice guys :yes:

thanks for participating .... this thread is way more serious than i usually am

i know the poll options are very limited and i apologise for that, it was all a bit 'spur of the moment' - please PM the mods if you want anything added - everyone has a different slant on things

the recent tragedies just made me think how sudden it all can be - and how unprepared most of us probably are ........... and, consequently, the arguement and upset that can happen [much as its happened in several threads here] because we didn't make our wishes known.

'sticking one's head in the sand' has been a recurrent theme in some of the recent threads and - well - i'm guilty of that too. i'd much rather skip thru life pretending that, if i don't think of it, it'll never happen to me.

and, of course, it could

and, if it does, its going to be unpleasant enuff already without lines in the sand being drawn on KB and people having a go at each other

that's the reason for the post

the reason for making it a POLL was - well - i was wondering how many other people out there were being as ostrich-like as i was ........ and i wanted to provoke those people to think - and to plan - and to let their loved ones KNOW what they want .... [even if they don't bother answering the stupid poll or commenting on this thread - that's totally immaterial really]

to those people .... just [please] do it:sunny:

thanks for listening
marion


[I]----- ok - jester's cap back on ..... as you were!

[MSTRS]

you are all pretty nice guys :yes:
[/B]

Hope you meant 'very'. I doubt that anyone would describe me as pretty:shit:

[James Deuce]

I'm still stunned. It has nothing to do with being Ostrich like.

[Joni]

OK, I have thought about this since the thread started...

If it was my time, and this is judging from the events over the last few days... I would not even want it on KB that I passed away.

The people who I care about and are friends who happen to be on KB, would know anyway... and I would ask my partner to give Spank a courtesy pm.

Reasons:
a) When Im gone, I dont want my loved ones to mourne... I want them to party and celebrate my life in joy... and stuff like the last few days makes that difficult.
b) Like Skel said, remember the good times and discuss and laugh about that... dont let the last conversation about me be about rider error I was guilty of.
c) I dont want to be associated with the crap like the last few days in life... so lets keep it that in way in death

Sorry, if that sounds hard... but right now that is how i feel.

and that me over and out on this conversation...

[Maha]

Will these threads ever stahohohohohohohop.............:cry:
Anyway..where was i ???
Just want it to be known that if i ever get taken out on the road i will not be my fault, it will be someone else's......:angry:
If however, i am found days later at the bottom of a cliff and parted from my bike, then that will be my fault.....:yes:
Cos i fucked up.....:innocent:
As for people talking about it on a public forum?....as long as you pussyfoot around naming names like the trend has been....then yea sure...everyone knows best (it seems) but only a handful know the truth....:done:

[Ixion]

I sincerely hope that I do not die on two wheels, but suspect I shall. Perhaps tomorrow.

On the same basis as that my cadaver will go for organ harvesting and medical research, if discussion of my death (or life) can be of benefit to anyone go for it.

I care not the least what anyone says of me in life, and will care less in death. My wife is computer illiterate , and would not care what any of you said anyway.

Perhaps once the medical students have finished with it, my skeleton would be mounted on the crashed bike and displayed at an appropriate accident black spot as a warning to others. I rather like that idea.

[Motu]

I'd love to be talked about for 3 weeks - however I suspect I may have to start a troll thread from the otherside myself....

[roogazza]

let us be remembered for how we lived not how we died

I've seen many deaths and had to attend many. Some strangers and some very good friends ! it all sucks ! SHIT HAPPENS !!!! G.

[Mental Trousers]

Those nearest and dearest to me are just that - nearest and dearest. I will do anything to prevent any more pain and hurt to them (can't prevent my death cos you die when you die) so I wouldn't want anything that could upset them on here. Discussing the gory details of my last mistake is ghoulish and inconsiderate.

I don't believe much of any substance comes from discussions on the internet (been online for a more than a couple of decades now on many, many sites) and anyone who thinks otherwise is only setting themselves up for disappointment.

Megan is busy thinking up a username for herself on here. My youngest sister is easily able to logon to kb and cruise the site, as is my brother. My mother would be able to after bugging my youngest sister enough. My family will be interested to see where I met many of my friends and where I spent time. Unfortunately, what they'd find is 90% retarded clown show and 10% worthy of respect.

[doc]

I couldn't care less.

As I don't ride with members of the site you probably wouldn't know anyway,apart from that I wasn't online anymore.My wife might come online to tell you what had happened,but she wouldn't follow any discussion,she just wouldn't be interested,nor would my kids.I'd be happy for you all to laugh at me getting my come uppance...it'd be a flash in the pan and forgotten in a week.

Who cares your gone and would you want Geeks discussing what happened sort of like "Reality Television" Bit different critisising peoples decisions when they up front making decisions instantly, and your at home in comfortable conditions under no stress at all thinking about how your would handle the situation. Get real move on

[Hitcher]

Unfortunately, what they'd find is 90% retarded clown show and 10% worthy of respect.

If you weren't here, those figures may change.

[Mental Trousers]

not that much, 91% isn't that big a difference

[Motu]

Who cares your gone and would you want Geeks discussing what happened sort of like "Reality Television" Bit different critisising peoples decisions when they up front making decisions instantly, and your at home in comfortable conditions under no stress at all thinking about how your would handle the situation. Get real move on

Could you translate that for me please? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

[Rhino]

Could you translate that for me please? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
After reading Docs post a few times, I believe that it is an AA (Alcohol Assisted) reply.:yes:

[Lou Girardin]

I wouldn't be in a position to know or care, and if I'd done something particularly stupid, I'd expect to be roundly abused.
But, what I insist that doesn't happen, is maudlin expressions of regret from people who don't know me or my online persona. Anyone breaching this rule will be forced to view my bloody corpse or face an lifetime's haunting by a grumpy old ghost.

[dawnrazor]

. or face a lifetime's haunting by a grumpy old ghost.

A little like CASPER then :dodge:

[Citroenjunkie]

I really don't care what people think of me now, while I'm alive, so once I'm gone, have a field day.

Those that matter, dont mind,
and those that mind, don't matter!

And yes I love my 400, and no I don't wear pink...frilly dresses perhaps, but no pink :yes: