Wire ropes and you

[jahrasti]

After all the bitching lately about our roads and so forth, I decided that I would do my little bit to help.
I am starting to compile a report to Transit, I am focusing on the wire ropes in the center line of the waikato express way and the standard guard railing used in NZ.
We all know that they came from the 50's when a cheap answer was found to keep vehs in the carriageway etc.
We all know that they are not biker safe. There are ways to improve safety.
I am asking for photos of areas that you believe to be dangerous, as I don't know all the roads in NZ.
This can be anything from wire ropes to guard rails to concrete barriers.
I am looking into alternative options that can be used that are motorcycle friendly.
If they take no notice then I will send it in again and cc it to the minister of transport, if they pay no attention then I will resend and cc the media, I think you see a pattern forming.
I at least want to know that Transit has thought about bike safety as it is not just NZ that has dangerous guard railing.

[James Deuce]

Concrete barriers are good. You hit them and slide along them and don't go into oncoming traffic.

I've done it.

I prefer them to every other type of barrier about.

[vamr]

If they take no notice then I will send it in again and cc it to the minister of transport, if they pay no attention then I will resend and cc the media, I think you see a pattern forming.

Just curious, what would be the next step? Rince and repeat or indefinately spam anyone that comes to mind?

[Swoop]

Do a KB search on "Cheesecutters". You will find a few anecdotal incidences of them plus a whole lot of "for" / "against" opinions.

[Wasp]

after christmas my bro will be back from taiwan with my new camera.

there are alot around here

[jahrasti]

Just curious, what would be the next step? Rince and repeat or indefinately spam anyone that comes to mind?

It would sent in a letter so it would be bad form to ignore it.

[iwilde]

At the end of the day the people who decide these things are car drivers and want the cheapest possible. Try asking them if they care about us and watch their sour faces screw up at the mention of motorcycle. Sorry for being negitive, been a rough day!

[Aitch]

We were heading south through the cheesecutters when some nutter on a red bike squeezed though between us and the wires at about 110k! Silly boy.......

[bluninja]

I remember the initial debate when they put the cheesecutters on the NW motorway end. There was a pilot and test done in OZ and it went along the lines that there were so few incidences of motorcycles going into the barriers that it wasn't an issue....but I can't find any docs now to back this up.

http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/atsb201.pdf

This feasibility study sets out the testing needed to be done for motorcycles. I can't find if it was done. It does point out that it considers a major danger to motorcyclists is the posts as you slide along the ropes till you hit one.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=12509&vf=1

This points out that the posts are indeed dangerous in Oz..

a quote from the page
"VicRoads undertook a thorough investigation of their safety performance (which) found no evidence to indicate that wire-rope barriers pose a danger to motorcyclists," the spokeswoman said.

Strange that they seemed to be involved in the feasibility study and testing, which indicated a hazard to motorcycles even before they were tested.

http://civil.eng.monash.edu.au/expertise/structures/crs/crs/ESVPaperBarriers19thThis link is the testing done on various barriers for cars....interesting that the wire barrier caused the car to roll...they claimed it was because the test barrier was too short.

Personally I would prefer not to go into, under, or over any median barrier.

[Lou Girardin]

Several EU countries have banned them. VicRoads in Victoria have agreed not to use them on any new roads and (I think) Queensland has done the same.

[jahrasti]

I have info on what the EU are doing to protect bikes. I have a computer sim of a person sliding into a cheesecutter.
My thoughts are that this stuff isn't going to disappear:bye: , but if there are motorcycle friendly mods that can be done I would a reason as to why it won't/can't be done.
I don't mean third hand either.

[Dai]

Several EU countries have banned them. VicRoads in Victoria have agreed not to use them on any new roads and (I think) Queensland has done the same.

From my dim recolections of life in the UK. I seem to remember an incident involving these wire rope barriers and a motorcyclist.

From memory the bike rider lost it on one of the motorways (the M4) comes to mind, and the ensuing result was that he lost a limb.

I do remeber when all the wire barriers were removed and replaced.

The bike rider sued the gov dept and won a large um of compensation.

Sorry I just realised that you cant sue for such injuries and damages here in NZ.

[TLDV8]

I am focusing on the wire ropes in the center line of the waikato express way

After the slow ride down to Hamilton last Wednesday,one thing that really stood out was the state of the road.
The amount of shiney tar and no chip was unbelievable and a good deal of it was where the wire barriers are.
Something to think about if using that stretch of road in the wet.

One other thing i noticed.
The posts for the wires are two colour's,white and grey.
The white seemed easier to see on the road background but then became a small distraction,the grey blended in making them less visible...... catch 22.

[xwhatsit]

Several EU countries have banned them. VicRoads in Victoria have agreed not to use them on any new roads and (I think) Queensland has done the same.

I don't think Queensland has done the same, seeing as they put them up all the way along the new motorway from Brisbane to the Gold Coast. Would be terrifying to ride along (I may be riding that way after Christmas too), especially as for quite a few stretches they've used concrete as a road surface, which doesn't look all that grippy.

[Deano]

If they take no notice then I will send it in again and cc it to the minister of transport,

I wrote to several ministers regarding the bullshit and omissions that were reported in the Safeas Workshops report.

I got the standard response that the minister would reply answering my query in due course..........

YEAH RIGHT - no reply whatsoever.

So, Dunhaven (sp) and Anderton can both kiss my arse.

[Disco Dan]

i would send your letter via snail mail rather than email...

When there is a physical letter sitting in their 'in' tray they have to act on it, as oppossed to an email... 'delete'.

[Drum]

Every time this argument comes up, I say the same thing. To my knowledge, no rider has ever ridden into a wire rope barrier in this country.

The wire rope barriers have been around NZ for several years now (maybe 10??). Therefore the risk for motorcyclists is LOW.

Plenty of motorcyclists have been seriously hurt (or worse) hitting trees beside the road. Therefore the risk for motorcyclists is HIGH.

Why don't you campaign to get all the trees removed?

Sure there are ways to make wire rope barriers more biker friendly. But why bother if bikers aren't hitting them?

[jahrasti]

i would send your letter via snail mail rather than email...

When there is a physical letter sitting in their 'in' tray they have to act on it, as oppossed to an email... 'delete'.

Yea, sorry I meant snail mail for just that reason.

[jahrasti]

Every time this argument comes up, I say the same thing. To my knowledge, no rider has ever ridden into a wire rope barrier in this country.

The wire rope barriers have been around NZ for several years now (maybe 10??). Therefore the risk for motorcyclists is LOW.

Plenty of motorcyclists have been seriously hurt (or worse) hitting trees beside the road. Therefore the risk for motorcyclists is HIGH.

Why don't you campaign to get all the trees removed?

Sure there are ways to make wire rope barriers more biker friendly. But why bother if bikers aren't hitting them?

I am not sure of the figures either but I feel it is better to be proactive.
Yes people get minced by trees so they put guard railing up to protect the tree?:innocent:
The wooden posts that hold the sigma railing up can do damage to people as well.
I am focusing a section for that.
I found this in regards to hitting wire barriers and after watching I don't want to be first.

http://www.nmcu.org/av/rider_no_protection_right_view.mpg
I apologize in advance if I ballsed it up.

[Drum]

Well good on you for being proactive anyway.

The strategy with barriers is that they protect you from a worse hazard (they are a hazard themselves, as your video shows). The video looks nasty, but if the alternative is hitting a car coming the other way - I'll take the barrier.

The fact is that these barriers save many lives each year. Of course, if there is a cost effective way of making them safer for bikers - then I'm all for it.

Let me know if you need technical info on the barriers for your arguments - I used to design them :dodge:

[jahrasti]

Well good on you for being proactive anyway.

The strategy with barriers is that they protect you from a worse hazard (they are a hazard themselves, as your video shows). The video looks nasty, but if the alternative is hitting a car coming the other way - I'll take the barrier.

The fact is that these barriers save many lives each year. Of course, if there is a cost effective way of making them safer for bikers - then I'm all for it.

Let me know if you need technical info on the barriers for your arguments - I used to design them :dodge:

Thaks for the help, I have access to Transits guard rail specs at work but if I need some expert advice I will give you a bell.
This is a sim of a retro fit on said wire railing.
Don't want to go to much into it but once done if anyone cares I can give them a copy
Have a gander.
http://www.nmcu.org/av/rider_with_protection_right_view.mpg