Milk-bar cowboys

[Monorail]

Was in the level one history paper this year and was wondering if anyone on here was one back in the day

[MSTRS]

Johnny-come-lately...I was in the mid-70's.

[Monorail]

thats cool. it was really intereesting read, going on about bogdins or something aswell. pretty much sums up to the emos and goth of today in my opinion. readical hair and clothes etc

[Ixion]

I deny everything. And don't listen to anything Mr Motu tells you either. They never proved anything (well, they did in his case).

[Ixion]

thats cool. it was really intereesting read, going on about bogdins or something aswell. pretty much sums up to the emos and goth of today in my opinion. readical hair and clothes etc

Bogdins? Bogdins? WTF is a bogdin? Do you mean bodgies? And wotz radical about leather jackets and jeans?

[Motu]

Milk Bar Cowboys were early in the piece,more early '50's....as my foreman was one.Bodgies and Widgies were late '50's and early '60's....late '60's to late '70's it was the Bikies.Late '70's the Maori gangs came into power....and then we had Hoodies.

[Monorail]

probably, i want paying much attention in the exam.they made them out to be a lot more radical in the paper. u just cant trust the government these days... but when could u ever?

[Ixion]

Hang on a minute. Just hang on there. Woddya mean "Was in the level one history paper this year"? History? Woddya mean history. That's not history, history is stuff that happened a long time ago, milk bar cowboys and bodgies and rockers (y' left out the mod and rocker wars, Mr Motu), that's not HISTORY, can't be history if I was there. Bloody cheek I reckon, next thing they'll be declaring me and Mr Motu (not to mention the OLD guys on the site) as historical relics.

[Monorail]

Hang on a minute. Just hang on there. Woddya mean "Was in the level one history paper this year"? History? Woddya mean history. That's not history, history is stuff that happened a long time ago, milk bar cowboys and bodgies and rockers (y' left out the mod and rocker wars, Mr Motu), that's not HISTORY, can't be history if I was there. Bloody cheek I reckon, next thing they'll be declaring me and Mr Motu (not to mention the OLD guys on the site) as historical relics.

Level one history is really quite pathetic, all history is pathetic. WWII, Black Civil Rights, NZ Diplomacy etc etc

[deeknow]

I'm not old enough to be a MBC, but my father started calling me a Milkbar-cowboy so had to ask him what the hell one was, and that led me to reserve the domain name milkbarcowboys.com (http://milkbarcowboys.com/) which me and a bunch of mates were toying with for a bit, kinda stalled, as these things do. Open for suggestions as far as using it tho? :Punk:

[Clivoris]

I'm not old enough to be a MBC, but my father started calling me a Milkbar-cowboy so had to ask him what the hell one was, and that led me to reserve the domain name milkbarcowboys.com (http://milkbarcowboys.com/) which me and a bunch of mates were toying with for a bit, kinda stalled, as these things do. Open for suggestions as far as using it tho? :Punk:

That would make agreat Gay website...I imagine.

[R6_kid]

next thing they'll be declaring me and Mr Motu (not to mention the OLD guys on the site) as historical relics.

i thought that was already the general consensus on the topic?

[Ixion]

you'll keep sonny, you'll keep. Bloody jazzers.

[oldrider]

Yes I was a milk bar cowboy and rode with the Hutt Mob in the fifties!
It was pretty pathetic press really run by the "Truth" news paper about the behaviour of the "juvenile delinquents" of the day!
Because we rode motorbikes and cavorted with the "sexually active" girls from Hutt Valley High school and Petone Tech and hung around the milk bars in the weekend, they made it very big news, pretty tame stuff really but it was fun at the time.
I only found KiwiBiker because I was trying to locate some of my old friends from back in those days.
I think our own Elliot Ness hails from that time period too judging from some of his infrequent but enlightening posts.
The 50's were a very good time to be young, bikes were improving and money was not too hard to come by, plenty of work, sexual revolution just beginning, then it all went to shit with the hippies and drugs.
I think kids have got it tough today by comparison, too many distractions too much loss of real freedom, despite plentiful consumer items but loaded down with stupid bloody rules and regulations.
Just a few thoughts about the times that you asked about. Cheers John.

[Skyryder]

Was in the level one history paper this year and was wondering if anyone on here was one back in the day

Bit before my time. Those guys would be in their 70's by now. The Milk Bar Cowboys were akin to the Bodgies and Widgies. This would be in the mid fifties. All very English in those days. Even Marlon Brando rode a British bike.

The standard riding gear in those days were Wranglers and Bomber Jackets. Gloves were gauntlets. Have not seen a pair of them for years. Lot of guys were silk dress scarves. I nicked my old man's. But it went missing years ago. Been trying to get one for sometime now.

Skyryder

[R6_kid]

im shaking in my boots.











no really i am!

[Dadpole]

So Oldrider was responsible for the famous Mazengarb Report. You dirty, dirty pervert. :2thumbsup

It even gets a mention in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazengarb_Report

[Ixion]

I have progressed from being a juvenile delinquent to being a senile delinquent. Is this progress?

[Skyryder]

That kid who robbed the train and handed out choclolate. Wasn't he the 'Last of the Milkbar Cowboys?"

Skyryder

[MSTRS]

Level one history is really quite pathetic, all history is pathetic. WWII, Black Civil Rights, NZ Diplomacy etc etc

Really? I feel sorry for you then. Since you are unable to learn from history, you will be doomed to repeat it. Sad.

[slowpoke]

I have progressed from being a juvenile delinquent to being a senile delinquent. Is this progress?

It means you've progressed from stealing the other kids' lunch money to stealing your fellow lawn bowlers' shandy money, topped off by the fact you can't remember where you've stashed it.........

[Madness]

I'm definitely not of the era of the Milkbar's, but do have a strong personal connection. The Mazengarb Report was prompted by happenings in the Hutt Valley, more precisely, happenings at the Elbe's Milkbar. I'm an Elbe, it was owned by my Great Uncle & my Grandfather also helped out with the manufacturing of the famous Elbe's Ice-Cream. This might help explain my interest in Motorcycles & love for sugary treats. Over the years in previous sales-repping jobs I have met a few of the "Elbe's Cowboys" still living around the Hutt, Ron Hardgrave comes to mind, he seemed to have very fond memories, the sparkle in his eye when recounting those memories may have been explained by the content of the report in hindsight??. the Elbe's Milkbar was at the southern end of high Street, I think in the building now occupied by Amalgamated Video. The local paper, The Hutt news, did a series of reports on the era a few years ago, this is where I learn't of the shadowy aspect of my family history, we were proprietors of a place of much depravity, hehehe.:Punk:

[Skyryder]

I'm not old enough to be a MBC, but my father started calling me a Milkbar-cowboy so had to ask him what the hell one was, and that led me to reserve the domain name milkbarcowboys.com (http://milkbarcowboys.com/) which me and a bunch of mates were toying with for a bit, kinda stalled, as these things do. Open for suggestions as far as using it tho? :Punk:

Did that Milkbar Cowboy run ever take place??

Skyryder

[merv]

I'm of the plastic era myself having not started riding until 1969 and have ridden mainly Jap bikes so wasn't a real milkbar cowboy, but I did frequent the milkbars in Napier in my day. Who remembers the Californian? You'd have to remember the Mayfair Theatre too!! In those days the milkbars were close to the movie theatres and at "half time" you'd duck out of the theatre to the milkbar.

Now some of my mates here, they were slightly older and in particular the boys about town in Wellington were the 25 Club. See this link http://britishspares.com/funstuff/pastblasts.htm it all pre-dates me living in the Welly area.

[eliot-ness]

I think our own Elliot Ness hails from that time period too judging from some of his infrequent but enlightening posts. John.

No good asking me John, I'm from the right era but the wrong place. In Yorkshire we didn't have milk bars or coffee bars. Pubs and fish and chip shops yes, plenty of them but somehow fish and chip shop cowboys didn't have the same appeal. I did visit the Ace cafe a few times but my Barbour riding gear didn't have the image required. The Coffee bar guys were mainly based around London, not many in the northern counties. The only lasting things to come from that era were cafe racers, Tritons and other specials. Rickmans, Dave Degens and Paul Dunstall started their business at that time and are still going strong. The Mods and Rockers era was a farce from beginning. It came to an end when a group of reporters were found guilty of incitement after paying a bike gang to race their bikes around a graveyard. Investigations into other incidents like the fights at Brighton showed that other newspapers had been involved in the same thing. The Rockers were always painted as the bad guys which I suppose was right, they took the cash and caused the problems. The Mods were portrayed as clean living, upstanding citizens, second only to car drivers, whose only crime was to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but bikes then, as now were in for the long haul. Scooters faded from the scene, peace returned and newspapers had to invent other stories to fill their pages

[Motu]

Those were some good photos on that link Merv - but that was the Bodgies,Milkbar Cowboys were earlier.When I was a kid the Bodgies hung out at Bucklands Beach,where I spent all my holidays and nearly every weekend at my grandmothers.On saturday nights in summer they put chairs down in the hall and had movies,and the bodgies would always turn up for an Elvis movie.My grandmothers place was only a couple of doors up the road,so it was our area.In the corner of the hall was a little shop,kind of a dairy...and we called it The Cabaret.Every year was the Yacht Club Ball...and when I was older figured out why the name Cabaret,because the shop opened into the hall,you could get icecreams in the interval of the movies there.

Anyway,the Milkbar Cowboys were earlier,my foreman who was my father's age used to tell me what they got up too.It was pretty cool being a young British bike rider in the early '70's and having a mentor who was riding the same bikes and doing the same things nearly 20 years earlier.

[Ixion]

Yes, they have Jet type helmets. The Milk Bar Cowboys were pre helmet.

[Skyryder]

The Milk Bar Cowboys were akin to the bodgies. About the only difference between the two was the MB C's rode bikes. Take away the leather bomber jacket and you would be hard pressed to tell the two apart. But at night if he was no riding and got into his 'threads' they both became 'Teddy Boys.' All three types were one and the same from the same era. Not all Teddy Boys were MB C's. The Bodgie and the Teddy Boys could be one and the same. It just depended on the dress. Most had DA's and tried to look like James Dean.

The biker British culture faded with the import of the Jap bikes. At least here in NZ. Harleys were associated with the Hells Angels and the 'bikie' gangs. It was the chopper's that bought biking into the mainstream of American concouncisnes with Eassy Rider. That movie expressed the Hippie culture not the biker culture. Hooper and Fonda were essentily hippies with choppers.

It could be argued that the chopper thing in the states derived from the American Hot Rod culture but that is another story.

Skyryder

[Toaster]

That would make agreat Gay website...I imagine.

nice one dude, classic comment!

[oldrider]

So Oldrider was responsible for the famous Mazengarb Report. You dirty, dirty pervert. :2thumbsup

It even gets a mention in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazengarb_Report

The girl in question lived just down the road from me and yes I used to frequent Elbe's milk bar among others but I was not responsible for the Milk bar Cowboy saga but I was a definitely a member of that group of guys and gals so named.
That was a great bunch of people to associate with, many of them are dead now but I know of a few still around.
I was a younger cling-on I suppose following the big guys round and as an apprentice money wasn't as ready in my pocket as some of the major players.
Rock and roll and Elvis were only just kicking into gear around then and it wasn't only milk bars that were frequented either.
Fond memories of those days. Cheers John.

[Pixie]

thats cool. it was really intereesting read, going on about bogdins or something aswell. pretty much sums up to the emos and goth of today in my opinion. readical hair and clothes etc

Except that back then they could spell

[doc]

Milk Bar Cowboys were early in the piece,more early '50's....as my foreman was one.Bodgies and Widgies were late '50's and early '60's....late '60's to late '70's it was the Bikies.Late '70's the Maori gangs came into power....and then we had Hoodies.

You don't say which group you were in cmon cough up for the history lesson.

[calmone]

Being an old Petone boy this thread brings back a few memories. I am post war but had an older brother and sister who have related the " Elbes Milk Bar days. I also had a friend who was a 25 club member in the 60's. My first bike a 175 Bantam bought in 1964 hardly qualified me for club membership. I am aware of the names of a few of the early Hutt Valley bikers but not much else.
What I can remember are the hairstyles, the white T shirts and tight jeans especially on the girls and the transition in the later 60,s to MK1 Zephyrs and other similar cars.

[DougB]

I was riding my 1950 AJS during the 1950's (I have just turned 74) I was not a milk bar cowboy but was often refered to as one by my friends. I used to go to Queen street in Auckland on Friday nights and park with the Cowboys just to have a look at the latest Triumph, BSA, or Matchless bikes, these were the favoured machines. Ariels, Royal Enfields, Panthers, Indians and other makes were less in favour. I cant remember any Harleys from that time, there must have been some around.

[Motu]

My boss used to tell me of going into Queen St (we did too,we hung out at 246 in the '70's) Everone lined up back wheel into the curb as you do - but one guy used to park front wheel first.When he left he would jump on his Harley and go out backwards,feet up! An ex sidecar bike of course with reverse gear.The riders name was Bryce Sibritzky.

[oldrider]

My boss used to tell me of going into Queen St (we did too,we hung out at 246 in the '70's) Everone lined up back wheel into the curb as you do - but one guy used to park front wheel first.When he left he would jump on his Harley and go out backwards,feet up! An ex sidecar bike of course with reverse gear.The riders name was Bryce Sibritzky.

I knew of a Sibritzky in Auckland who was also into pioneering in underwater diving, aqualungs etc. Could that be the same guy?
Bit off topic but......... John.

[Motu]

They are a big family,from Northland and were shipping pioneers.If it's to do with water they will be into it.They serviced Waiheke Island for decades - and when the Sibritzky scow went down the Tamaki River past my grandmothers house she would mutter about bloody Subritzky's....we were from the far north too.

[kate]

Hi,

I am doing some research on the Milk Bar Cowboy era and in particular the guys and girls who used to hang out at Elbes Milk Bar in Petone. Was really interested to read your comments and would be great to talk to you about your memories of that time.

Cheers
Kate

[paulmac]

Just reinforces the fact that young fella's on rides today moaning about "old farts" need to remember that they have done their apprenticship and are entitled to cruise.

[FROSTY]

Gee willikers I guess I'm post milk bar cowboy stage then.
Used to hang out at brewery lane back in the days when CB750k1s and Z1 900 were still current tackle.
when you could get a 24 hour helmet exemption and ex firr service boots were the thing to wear

[wysper]

I'm not old enough to be a MBC, but my father started calling me a Milkbar-cowboy so had to ask him what the hell one was, and that led me to reserve the domain name milkbarcowboys.com (http://milkbarcowboys.com/) which me and a bunch of mates were toying with for a bit, kinda stalled, as these things do. Open for suggestions as far as using it tho? :Punk:

I am pretty sure my uncle was one here in Hammiehole.

[pete376403]

My boss used to tell me of going into Queen St (we did too,we hung out at 246 in the '70's) Everone lined up back wheel into the curb as you do - but one guy used to park front wheel first.When he left he would jump on his Harley and go out backwards,feet up! An ex sidecar bike of course with reverse gear.The riders name was Bryce Sibritzky.

The same Bryce Subritzky Speedway rider?

http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/Subritzky,%20Bryce.htm

[1billyboy]

Been their Done that. Even been called a temporary New Zealander back then.

[Skyryder]

It was a joy to read this thread again. There is an interesting aside to this. The cowboy era virtually ended at the start of the new decade in the sixties. Beatlemania and the Carnaby Streets look was about to revolutionize the younger generation. The two wheeled world was divided between the Mods some of whom rode scooters(did not realy get a foot hold here) and the Rockers.

This was the first division of the youth from the Rock'n'Roll geneation. This is a significant divide that has not been touched on by modern historians.
Essentiall it divided those from Rock'n' Roll from the Mersy sound. Rockers were still into the American music Mods had evolved their own sound and fashion from Carnaby and Mary Quant. If they rode it was a scooter and mostl likely be a Vespa
The so called Hippy movement was pure American and found it's birthplace in the Haight Ashby district of San Fransisco. It was at about this time that the Hells Angell were getting media attention and the 'bikie' gangs were forming. There must have been a small Auckland chapter as some of us were asked to join.
Whether they were afiliated to the American chapter's I don't know but the guy who wanted us to join name was Mark ????.
I stopped riding at about this time so have little knowledge of the NZ biker culture from that time onwards.


Skyryder

[scumdog]

Johnny-come-lately...I was in the mid-70's.

Me too - and more of a V8 boy...

[Skyryder]

It was a joy to read this thread again. There is an interesting aside to this. The cowboy era virtually ended at the start of the new decade in the sixties. Beatlemania and the Carnaby Streets look was about to revolutionize the younger generation. The two wheeled world was divided between the Mods some of whom rode scooters(did not realy get a foot hold here) and the Rockers.

This was the first division of the youth from the Rock'n'Roll geneation. This is a significant divide that has not been touched on by modern historians.
Essentiall it divided those from Rock'n' Roll from the Mersy sound. Rockers were still into the American music Mods had evolved their own sound and fashion from Carnaby and Mary Quant. If they rode it was a scooter and mostl likely be a Vespa
The so called Hippy movement was pure American and found it's birthplace in the Haight Ashby district of San Fransisco. It was at about this time that the Hells Angell were getting media attention and the bikie gangs were forming. There must have been a small Auckland chapter as some of us were asked to join.
Whether they were afiliated to the American chapter's I don't know but the guy who wanted us to join name was Mark ????.
I stopped riding at about this time so have little knowledge of the NZ biker culture from that time onwards.


Skyryder


They pulled the chicks with this

Skyryder

[Andy Elbe]

I know this is like four years ago - but Fred Elbe owner of the Elbe's milkbar is my Grandad and my Dad used to ride the motor bike selling ice cream...

[merv]

Nice one! Good to bring up the old stuff.

[oldrider]

I know this is like four years ago - but Fred Elbe owner of the Elbe's milkbar is my Grandad and my Dad used to ride the motor bike selling ice cream...

That's the one at the bottom end of High St near the roundabout before the bridge over the Hutt River, I have forgotten the names of those places now!

[Madness]

That's the one at the bottom end of High St near the roundabout before the bridge over the Hutt River, I have forgotten the names of those places now!

That would be the one. Trust me - I'm in the know (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123090-Thanks-KB?p=1129744641#post1129744641).

[oldrider]

That would be the one. Trust me - I'm in the know (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123090-Thanks-KB?p=1129744641#post1129744641).

Hmmm, perhaps I know your granddad, or grandma! :shifty:

[slofox]

They are a big family,from Northland and were shipping pioneers.If it's to do with water they will be into it.They serviced Waiheke Island for decades - and when the Sibritzky scow went down the Tamaki River past my grandmothers house she would mutter about bloody Subritzky's....we were from the far north too.

I taught a couple of them about 30 years ago...

[cooldragon]

I remember well afternoons in the early 50s when I rode my pushbike from Naenae College into the Hutt. There, we'd meet up with girls from Sacred Heart College, and do a bit of 'experimenting' in the back booths at Elbes. But not until I'd scoffed a chocolate peanut sundae first! Their gym frocks always smelled, well, inviting...

Cheers, John

[Gareth51]

In the sixties your girlfriend would be on the back, no helmet,and a mini skirt... I was an apprentice and my boss brought me a fish slice........something about something sucked to the seat

[Dadpole]

There, we'd meet up with girls from Sacred Heart College, and do a bit of 'experimenting'
Cheers, John

Ahh. Blessed be the "Sacred Tarts". Memories...

[duckonin]

Wellywood was a good place even in the late sixtys, like 'old rider' around the Hutt valley was always good to hang out on bikes mine (Matchless 500 single banger) out the front of odd joints to pick up a babe, cigie in the gob jacket collar sitting up like the Fonz ha ha, my my we have matured well sort of...

[duckonin]

Hi,

I am doing some research on the Milk Bar Cowboy era and in particular the guys and girls who used to hang out at Elbes Milk Bar in Petone. Was really interested to read your comments and would be great to talk to you about your memories of that time.

Cheers
Kate

Memories of that time you would need to write five books .....

[Tank]

my Dad used to ride the motor bike selling ice cream...

Was he a Dangerous Bastard?