back specialists

[erik]

Has anyone got any advice about back specialists?
My lower back gets sore really easily, the doc suggested I go to James Watt, a muskuloskeletal specialist in Takapuna, but because my sore back isn't due to an accident, I can't get acc and I don't have health insurance. So they said the first appointment would be up to $195 and the follow up appointments would be $65 to $95. It seems kinda expensive to me, especially seeing as I'm a student.

I tried phoning some other place in Remuera to compare the price and they said a first appointment would be $270!

I've tried osteopaths before, but I think I want to know what's actually wrong with my back and what the osteopath said I didn't understand.

Any suggestions? I just thought I'd check before forking out $195 for 1/2 hr (or maybe it was an hour?) to see what the guy has to say.

[riffer]

Any suggestions? I just thought I'd check before forking out $195 for 1/2 hr (or maybe it was an hour?) to see what the guy has to say.
Sure. "Drop" your bike in the driveway. Catch it falling and twist your back. Go see doctor. Get ACC.

QED.

:)

[duckman]

This will probably stir someones pot but .... Are you SURE this isn't the result of an accident??? Are you SURE??!!!! :shifty:

**flame on**

[merv]

Yeah damn you twinged it when you were getting the beer out of the fridge at least.

[Drunken Monkey]

Try Rik Simpson, who runs his own chiropractic clinic on the Pakuranga Highway - although he's pretty far away if you're living in west Auckland...

Eastern Chiropractic Health Centre
180 Pakuranga Rd
576 3607

[Posh Tourer :P]

Being tall and skinny/non-muscular, I've had lower back soreness in the past.

Miracle cure? Go to the gym and do some back specific exercises. Strengthen the muscles, and they'll cope far better. If you havent had an accident, chances are the skeletal parts will be fine and its just overstressed muscles.

A good one is to lie on a bench, hanging off the end of it past your waist. get someone to hold your legs down or tuck them under something like a ledge. Then, cross your arms across your chest and pivot at the waist down to the floor and back to just above horizontal. Do your normal 10 reps x 3 or whatever you want to do. If you get a bit stronger, grab a weight, eg 5kg, off a barbell and hold that on your chest. Worked for me. :) And it is cheaper than visiting a specialist...

Edit: What did the osteopath say? If there actually is anything wrong, stressing it with exercise may not be a good idea. However, I know a few people with your physique and back problems seem to be common. I'd just try strengthening the muscles before you do anything more expensive. If it hurts too much you can always stop and go to a specialist then.

[Paul in NZ]

My younger brother is one of the regions leading Physios and specialises in back pain. He is a McKensie institute fellow... I suggest going to your Physio and asking for a book called "Treat your own back" by Robin McKensie

Ultimately, you will end up doing a lot of your own treatment anyway, you may as well get the good oil.

Cheers

[Devil]

Go here, he'll get an xray done first to figure out whats wrong.

Chiropractic First
211 Sandringham Rd Kingsland Auckland
0-9-845 4640

[Zed]

"They can fly a man to the moon, but they can't fix a back!"

Progress in modern medicine is simply this - they can make your pain easier to bear if you've got the money to pay for it! :thud:

[Hitcher]

Progress in modern medicine is simply this - they can make your pain easier to bear if you've got the money to pay for it!
Harsh comment!!

[jrandom]

If you would find it convenient to be mugged by a balaclava-clad stranger wielding a baseball bat who hit you across the back in a very expensive injury-causing manner, took the $10 from your pocket that was all you had and buggered off... I could probably arrange it ;)

[Jackrat]

Iv'e been through the whole back thing over the last five years.
Iv'e had one semi success surgery and am booked for another when hell freezes over,or so it seems.
After my first surgery I used accupunture for pain control until I could walk again,then used a push pull wheel to build lower back and gut mussles,plus things like leg lifts and back extensions.
What happens with your back will be totaly up to you.If you build your stomach mussles you WILL get rid of most of the pain,if you don't,,,,work it out.
BTW accupunture was the very last resort but turned out to be the only thing that even looked like helping.It definatly will not help if you rely on it alone,you HAVE to strengthen your stomach.
Best of luck man,I really do feel for ya' on this.

[Drunken Monkey]

Hey JR (or anyone else with a similar problem), were your weak trunk muscles a side effect of a desk-bound job (and general lack of excersice outside of business hours)? I put my back out playing squash a year or so after I got a desk job, but hopefully have learned my lesson. A negative function of modern society?

[Milky]

I agree... core strengthening seems to do wonders for soreness in backs. I used to get a very sore lower back, and started going to the gym to work on that area... must get back into it again, but it was very useful for me :niceone: just stop if there is pain/stiffess/too much discomfort. Wouldnt want to make the problem worse in some way...

[jrandom]

I agree... core strengthening seems to do wonders for soreness in backs.

Absolutely.

My back training has suffered of late, so I did a proper session of power cleans and bent-over rows on Monday. As usual, it proved to be the most unsatisfying of my lifting sets for muscle soreness and 'pump value', but I always notice the benefit in back comfort when I wake up in the morning. Even from just one or two sessions.

I can't recommend (careful!) lifting highly enough for avoiding stress-injury type problems over time.

[Jackrat]

Hey JR (or anyone else with a similar problem), were your weak trunk muscles a side effect of a desk-bound job (and general lack of excersice outside of business hours)? I put my back out playing squash a year or so after I got a desk job, but hopefully have learned my lesson. A negative function of modern society?

Yes,I went from working on a farm and being a part time fencing contractor to sitting pushing buttons in a steel mill.My back started giving me trouble after about twelve months of it.
My doctor calls it natures revenge for walking up right.

[Skyryder]

"They can fly a man to the moon, but they can't fix a back!"

Progress in modern medicine is simply this - they can make your pain easier to bear if you've got the money to pay for it! :thud:


I knew you and I would finaly agree on something.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Take up Yoga.

Skyryder

[erik]

I've tried going to the gym already for about 2 years. I kind of slacked off last year though, and then stopped this year. I only made really slow, or no, strength increases. I guess I wasn't eating enough protein and calories in general, I've got a fast metabolism and it's hard to put on weight/muscle. I did enjoy working out though, if a doc said it was a good thing to do, I'd start again. I was just a bit worried that I might've been making my back worse.

The osteopath that I went to see ages ago (2001) was worried that one of the vertebra or disks might've moved forwards (spondylolitis[?]) and I got an x-ray, but it showed nothing wrong. I can't remember what else the osteopath said. I remember one said to keep away from weightlifting because it's not good for my body type or something (tall non-muscular).

I've had a look at the "Treat your own Back" book and tried some of the exercises. It kind of helped, but I'm not sure if it was much better than just lying down every now and then. I think one of the osteopaths didn't think much of it (the book/exercises) though.

I've tried several things already (weights, osteopaths, accupuncture, yoga, stretching, massage), some that make more sense to me than others. Strangely the one thing I haven't done is gone to an orthodox back specialist, I guess because it's expensive and my parents are leaned towards alternative therapy.

Zed, I think I share your lack of faith in modern medicine. But I've gotta give it a shot anyway, having tried several other things and not getting anywhere.

So I think I'll write some stuff down to ask the guy/tell him and try to make the most out of the $195...

I'll just have to hope my bike doesn't break down any time soon...

Anyway, thanks for all your posts, humorous and otherwise :niceone:

[MadDuck]

Well Erik I know back pain like many of the others. I ruptured my lower disc years ago playing sport which means I will always have a weak back from the bottom up so as to speak. Went to a chiropractor for 2 years every 2nd week then finally thought...heck this cant really be that good for me as I heard the crunch and crack.
Finally I found an orthobyonomist (spelling) that does relatively the same type of action as a chiro but with not the same cracking. Its more muscular and an alternative treatment as only 2 in NZ do it from what I understand. His name is Neville H (something dammit) and last time I saw him he was in Pakuranga in the tall plaza building near the local cop.

Damn if he is still there someone let me know. After two sessions with him I was pain free for 2 or 3 years. Then I fell on my lovely drive and twisted my pelvis. :sneaky2: Best if you can get it sorted at your age as it only gets worse.

[El Dopa]

Have you tried a conventional physio? I know you lean towards alternative stuff, but I kinda lean the other way, for lots of good reasons that are better saved for another thread.

Try the guys in the Dingwall building on Queen Street (Queen St Physio I think its called). $45 a session, and they're straight shooters, so they won't piss you about and take your money indefinitely.

I agree with all the comments about exercise, but make sure your back has settled down first before doing anything too strenuous, otherwise you're just adding injury to injury.

[erik]

Have you tried a conventional physio? I know you lean towards alternative stuff, but I kinda lean the other way, for lots of good reasons that are better saved for another thread.

Try the guys in the Dingwall building on Queen Street (Queen St Physio I think its called). $45 a session, and they're straight shooters, so they won't piss you about and take your money indefinitely.

I agree with all the comments about exercise, but make sure your back has settled down first before doing anything too strenuous, otherwise you're just adding injury to injury.

Nope I haven't tried conventional physio. I guess I wasn't clear before, it's my parents that have been into alternative stuff, which has led me to try that stuff first. But I think I prefer conventional medicine, even though it does seem pretty limited (maybe I've been watching too much star trek... ;) ). I mean I think there is a great deal of knowledge out there, but it seems to me that there is still a hell of a lot that they just don't understand yet.

I think I'll try to find out more about what physiotherapists do, and then maybe go see one.

[MikeL]

Best if you can get it sorted at your age as it only gets worse.

Not true. Provided you understand what causes the problem and avoid the situations which damage your back it will repair itself over time. Fifteen years ago I was immobilized (and depressed) by a lower back (disc) problem and consequent severe sciatica. Now I run, swim, work out and enjoy life.
Here's what I have learned:
1. Physiotherapy is of very limited use.
2. A chiropracter is of no use at all.
3. Traditional treatment is crap. The medical textbook I consulted advised a minimum of 6 weeks' confinement to bed without even being allowed to get up to go to the toilet. As if!!
4. The injury can never be completely reversed, but it can heal itself sufficiently to give you back a reasonably normal life.
5. The repair will be slow, and there will be setbacks, but long-term the prognosis is good, provided you follow a few simple rules, the most important of which is to avoid lifting situations which put strain on the lower back ("bend ze knees...").
6. The more active you are the better. Rest is not necessary. Exercises to strengthen abdominal and back muscles are vital.
In the past too many people have taken the well-meaning but misguided advice of "health professionals" and ended up ruining their lives. Don't trust these people! They don't know everything! It's your body and your life...

[MadDuck]

ok point taken MikeL.

I guess I was trying to say (and not very well) is dont ignore it. The day I woke up and could not move was pretty scary and I was all of 20 something. They key is to keep moving and strengthen slowly.

Last time I went to my physio he said that digging trenches and laying retaining walls was not really the best kinda therapy for a crook back. Having said that if I listened to him the bike would stay in the gargre for the next 10 years.

Once the back is weakened it just takes managing. Everyone is different and everyone needs different treatment. Find what suits you and stay with it.

[Zed]

...Zed, I think I share your lack of faith in modern medicine. But I've gotta give it a shot anyway, having tried several other things and not getting anywhere...
Of course you do erik...the comment I made about medicine was very general and it wasn't my intention to put you off it necessarily. I really do hope you can get it sorted out. :yes: Your riding experience will suffer if you don't!! :weep:


Zed

[Posh Tourer :P]

I think you need to look at getting a good training schedule and perhaps a personal trainer. Tell them you want to focus solely on core strength and ignore their pleas for you to do your arms/legs/neck etc etc. Focus on core strength and get someone there to drive you. I also have a fast metabolism and similar physique and I've managed to do some serious strengthening work without resort to protein bars and protein shakes and all that rubbish.

[FROSTY]

i agree with PT here eric. A good regeme to get stronger lower back muscles will help heaps.
One thing I was told that I thought was stupid was -loosen your belt.
Lots of guys have belts way too tight and it gives you a sore back

[Slim]

Everything is connected. Quite a few people have mentioned back & ab exercises for strength, which is absolutely true, but no one has mentioned stretching ham strings, which is also a big contributor to lower back pain (although I notice you've tried Yoga, Erik).

There is an absolutely brilliant Physio/acupuncturist/osteo guy down here in Hamilton that I see for various back-related problems, and my Man has found a really great woman in Mount Maunganui too (and he's got Scheuermann's Disease, so he's seen all sorts of back people over the years!) but they're probably both a bit of a hike to go see.

You need to find someone who knows how the whole body works together, and possibly someone who has more than one medical discipline in their arsenal, and someone who will help you come up with a plan to assist recovery.

As the ACC's been advertising a lot lately, we know that doing nothing is not the way to fix back problems! Good luck in your search.

[spudchucka]

Erik,

Not knowing your age or physical condition its a little hard to offer relevant advice. However I see that you have tried the gym in the past. Good idea in my opinion, strengthening your lower back and abdominal will really help your lower back pain. Especially the abs, if you work out your lower back you should also be working on your abs for balance and its the stronger abs that will really help. Also stretching your hamstrings will help. Can you touch your toes?? I used to suffer lower back pain regularly and the upshot of the problem was that with age my hamstrings had the elasticity of number 8 wire. So an exercise and stretching programme made the world of difference and my back seldom bothers me anymore.

[El Dopa]

Nope I haven't tried conventional physio. I guess I wasn't clear before, it's my parents that have been into alternative stuff, which has led me to try that stuff first. But I think I prefer conventional medicine, even though it does seem pretty limited (maybe I've been watching too much star trek... ;) ). I mean I think there is a great deal of knowledge out there, but it seems to me that there is still a hell of a lot that they just don't understand yet.

I think I'll try to find out more about what physiotherapists do, and then maybe go see one.

Hey Erik, sorry for the delay in replying.

Yeah, modern medicine has a long way to go, and I have the injuries and horror stories to prove it. Sometimes it's better at blowing it's own trumpet than curing you, but I'd stll take it over the alternative stuff (although I think there's aspects of that stuff that western medicine dismisses too easily), simply because the implied contract is that the western stuff has been tried and tested from first principles before it reaches you via the doctor or whoever. You therefore have a reasonable expectation that you're getting what you asked for, and if you don't your complaints are supposed to be listened to and resolved. A lot of the alterative stuff is unregulated, so if it goes wrong or doesn't work like you were told it was going to (or makes you worse or gives you a new problem), well, tough s***.