Is it really true that everybody crashes?

[Chisanga]

Since joining these forums I have been slightly taken aback by the amount of people who say that everybody crashes at some stage, whilst it's essential to be prepared and careful at all times, to a complete newbie sweeping generalisations like this can seem like an overstatement..

I have no first hand knowledge of this topic at all so I would be interested if people could state if they have crashed, how 'serious' it was and whether it occured in, say, their first three months of riding their bike.

I appreciate your feedback on this matter... I think it would be interesting to see the results.

I hope that the statement "Everyone crashes/bins it/offs" is proven wrong by your replies.


Safe riding all.

[Skyryder]

I hope that the statement "Everyone crashes/bins it/offs" is proven wrong by your replies.


Safe riding all.

Not all crash. However some do so through no fault of their own others through 'all' their own fault. If you take the trouble to learn road sense on a bike should not be a problem.

Skyryder

[Jantar]

I treat crashing as inevitable, and therefore equip myself as if every ride will result in an incident. Fortuantely I haven't binned in the last 20 years, but I won't try and count how many times I came off prior to that.

Have a look at http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=11826 for a better indication.

[Chisanga]

Have a look at http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=11826 for a better indication.

I think I need to start using the search engine here more effectively :)

Cheers for the link mate.

[beyond]

Hope you learn something from my stupidity:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=39808

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=39809

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=40711

Tips: learn all you can, wear the best gear you can afford, treat all other motorists like they are out to get you and then, you certainly will shorten the odds and may never have an off. :)

[terbang]

Crashing is not an inevitability, it is a possibility. A lot of it is up to you.

[yungatart]

You can choose to not participate in the obligatory bin, that is what I have done.
Not every one crashes and I don't see that it is a necessary part of your learning curve.
Learn to ride properly, take courses in riding if they are available in your area, stay aware and focused, ride your own ride within your limits at all times and you don't need to.
Remember, sticky side down, shiny side up - you'll enjoy it much more that way!

[Colapop]

One thing I try to remember is that - They are all trying to kill you!

Maybe not, but thats how you have to approach things. I had a idiot pull out onto a two lane to merge from an intersection and cross straight over to my lane yesterday. Just gave me a stupid blank look as I was making gestures and swearing at him. (Just before the Petone overbridge, from the esplanade, heading south - for those that know...)

[TLDV8]

Since joining these forums I have been slightly taken aback by the amount of people who say that everybody crashes at some stage, whilst it's essential to be prepared and careful at all times, to a complete newbie sweeping generalisations like this can seem like an overstatement..

Never ride in the wet
Never ride in a city or built up area.
Only ride on open road with no twisties at the speed limit or slower at a safe following distance and you should be fairly safe.
I have bailed 6 times in 29 years...none were my fault :laugh:

Started road riding in 1977 on a 250.

First off 1980... Kawasaki H2..gravel road heading out to 90 mile beach,to fast,went onto grass,fell off.

1983 Ducati 900... S bend rail overbridge in the wet,lost both front and rear wheels at once...too fast,slick road,off camber.

1994 Ducati 900 ... Hit a small courier truck on the Symonds St motorway onramp... truck was braking (no brake lights :confused:) as i was checking the lanes to pull out,turned to look ahead :shit:

1996 Ducati 900 ..Lock to lock tank slapper in the wet...big slide,off the road,went over a 12 foot or so bank landing in a swamp. (bike stayed up on the road)

1998 Ducati 900 ..Engine stalled mid turn, by the time i got it sorted had started to run wide hit armco barrier. (low speed)

2006 Suzuki TL1000.. Wet road,sweeping corner,medium speed,back came around..game over.

First thing noticed,poor Ducati,second all could have been avoided except for maybe No 5 (I had put a stock heavy flywheel back in the bike replacing the super light one) so even that may have been avoidable.

[Chisanga]

1983 Ducati 900... S bend rail overbridge in the wet,lost both front and rear wheels at once...too fast,slick road,off camber.

1994 Ducati 900 ... Hit a small courier truck on the Symonds St motorway onramp... truck was braking (no brake lights :confused:) as i was checking the lanes to pull out,turned to look ahead :shit:

1996 Ducati 900 ..Lock to lock tank slapper in the wet...big slide,off the road,went over a 12 foot or so bank landing in a swamp. (bike stayed up on the road)

1998 Ducati 900 ..Engine stalled mid turn, by the time i got it sorted had started to run wide hit armco barrier. (low speed)


Man that bike has certainly been in the wars

[TLDV8]

PS

Close calls.....100's no doubt.The problem is you do not know how you will react untill you are in a pressure situation.

Take the weekend ride..... come over a sweeping brow of a hill to see a SUV coming over into my lane on an angle.... make decision that it seems to be heading for the gravel on my side (L/H) so it will not come back across,steer to the right,it goes past me on the left in the gravel.I think WTF ,look in my mirror to see if the people following were far enough back to have avoided it (looked ok) carried on as per usual.


Man that bike has certainly been in the wars

Yeah,i suck and to think with the motorway job i ended up flying a long way (hit the left rear of the truck) the bike broke the draw bar on the truck,stoved the rear door in and i still rode it home at 90 kmh (bent wheel) They don't make them like that any more...got it at 23 will never sell it.

[Mom]

One thing I try to remember is that - They are all trying to kill you!

Maybe not, but thats how you have to approach things. I had a idiot pull out onto a two lane to merge from an intersection and cross straight over to my lane yesterday. Just gave me a stupid blank look as I was making gestures and swearing at him. (Just before the Petone overbridge, from the esplanade, heading south - for those that know...)

I so agree...........the "everyone is out to get you " statement will stand you in good stead on 2 wheels.........especially watch out for people wearing hats!!!

As far as it goes, I started riding in 1976..........and had my first off the day I got on 2 wheels....part of my learning how to ride involved a downhill paddock and instructions to give it heaps till I heard a shout, then to slam on the brakes....oh yay for the innocence of youth........

I have had several encounters with mother earth riding off road, once even having my front wheel taken out from under me in an overtaking manouver that obviously made the bloke feel REALLY BIG!..

On the road, several near misses, ( I have always found the big :finger: followed by the :mega: comments on peoples parentage and personal habits soothing when the adreniline is running high) good braking technique is essential.....

Being on 2 wheels can be dangerous for sure, keep your eyes open and your senses tuned at all times, ride to your abilities and you will have a blast

[Patch]

Fact of life - unfortunately


Crashing is not an inevitability, it is a possibility. A lot of it is up to you.

Don't cotton wool the man. Tell 'em straight. No BS. Stay at home, life is bloody dangerous.

It is entirely possible, but is inevitable at some point in your riding life. If you're lucky enough to never have had the experience of an accident (regardless of fault) to say you never will, is stupid. To have never had one is just luck. There is only so much skill, preparation one can learn or do. The rest is risk minimisation and luck.
To be unprepared is foolhardy. To say you never will, shows your stupidity or the lack of reality. :hitcher: There are many, many things beyond our control, after all we are only human.

Learn the basic skills well, prepare yourself and machine adequately and don't be fukkin stupid. You'll be fine.

Want to ride on the limit, push yourself to the edge?? Go to the track, thats why we have trackdays. If you like it, go racing, safest enviroment on the planet to do your thing. Well as safe as it gets. The rest is luck. Good or Bad, understand the risks, and avoid them at all costs.


If you need anything, like I said earlier, only to happy to help ya out.


As for crashing, never done that, never been stupid either :innocent: yeah right.
I remember a certain 17yr old on his GN250, riding at night, too fast for conditions, wasn't seen by fellow motorist at round-about *bang* no injury, van driver at fault, one buggered bike and one ruined birthday party. He was lucky, his bike wasn't.

You don't know the time nor place - we are only human, doing something we enjoy. :scooter:

Be Safe, Be Seen and Be Real . :dodge: . careful.

[Ixion]

Since joining these forums I have been slightly taken aback by the amount of people who say that everybody crashes at some stage, whilst it's essential to be prepared and careful at all times, to a complete newbie sweeping generalisations like this can seem like an overstatement..

I have no first hand knowledge of this topic at all so I would be interested if people could state if they have crashed, how 'serious' it was and whether it occured in, say, their first three months of riding their bike.

I appreciate your feedback on this matter... I think it would be interesting to see the results.

I hope that the statement "Everyone crashes/bins it/offs" is proven wrong by your replies.


Safe riding all.

In 40 years riding, and maybe a million kilometres, I have never crashed or been injured on the road.

However, I must say that in my first few months I spent a LOT of time riding off road (just the local subdivision in progress) , where I did fall off , a lot. Low speed, no injury, but I learned a lot.

Crashing is NOT inevitable, don't let anyone tell you that.

However, don'tgo round with rose coloured spectacles, either. What we do is dangerous, and crashing and injury (even death) is always a possibility.

Each time you go out presume you WILL crash, then REFUSE to allow it.

(I'm not counting dropping the bike putting it on the stand and such like incidents)

[trumpy]

Read an interesting article in the British magazine "Bike" (I think) a few months ago about a guy who has ridden for 43 years and has NEVER had an off. It turns out this guy was no Nana rider either. The interviewer was a bike tester and was struggling to keep up with him through the twisties in the wet. He was exceptionally aware of what was going on around him and he had obviously had honed his anticipatory skills to a fine art. A bit of good luck probably went his way as well.
Might be able to dig the article up if you are interested.

Place the responsibility for your survival where it belongs.......with yourself.

There is also an interesting section in the October '06 edition of "Bike" magazine on the science and psychology of danger. Definitely worth a read. If you have or can find a copy read carefully the sidebar titled "Are Car Drivers The Problem?". Interesting statistics. Might blow a myth or two.

[JimO]

my first "off" 1977 i got of my cb360 and forgot to put the stand down. Only real smash i was heading up Kenmure Rd in Dunedin 1982 speeding on my 79 Z1r doing around 80 ks in a 50 k area and a car pulled out so i went to pass then he turned right without indicating i took out the back guard and did a big superman , result bent forks, scratched fairing blade. havnt had one since.

[Chisanga]

Learn the basic skills well, prepare yourself and machine adequately and don't be fukkin stupid.

This could possibly my new mantra for each time I head out onto the road :)

[terbang]

Don't cotton wool the man. Tell 'em straight. It is entirely possible, but is inevitable at some point in your riding life. If you're lucky enough to never have had the experience of an accident (regardless of fault) to say you never will, is stupid.


Saying that crashes are inevitable is just stupid chestbeating wank. They are possible and definatly more possible than a car crash. That is the nature of the road. Noone should approach any vehicle with the resignation (or bravado) that they are going out there to crash it. However they should be aware of the possibilities and possible causes of an accidents with the mind to avoid them.

I quote :


In 40 years riding, and maybe a million kilometres, I have never crashed or been injured on the road.

[Mom]

Crashing is not an inevitability, it is a possibility. A lot of it is up to you.

I agree, it is not inevitable that I will crash.....but it is possible for it to happen.........there are some incredable idiots on the road, on 2 wheels and on 4 wheels

[The Stranger]

A tighter definition of what you are after may help too.
I have heard it said that 70% of insurance claims are for stationary or near stationary accidents. I really don't know how accurate this is, however there certainly are a lot of accidents at low or no speed. I have heard of more than a few who have forgotten to put their stand down or even forgotten to put their foot down when stopping at lights (it's true I tell you). I have seen a few where people are on an unusual slope and can't reach the ground, or have had a bad footing etc.

That aside, what do you want from motorcycling?
You can stay comfortably within your limits and enjoy the scenery and comradery etc or maybe you want to experience an adrenaline rush now and then (or constantly)

If it is the former, you can still be screwed up by another, if it is the latter, any time you push yourself you run the risk of exceeding your previous limits by a little too much.

Suffice to say. Odds are on you are going to bin at some stage. Relax and enjoy.

[sunhuntin]

hmm, depends on your outlook....i have fallen off once, learning to ride, freshly mown grass, turned too fast and crunch. ive been hit once...she pulled out from a stop sign. see her bonnet coming my way, decide action and crunch. then a little later a thud.

on the same page...while i know it IS possible to get blown off a bike...it is rare to happen, so i just tell myself it cant happen. and so far...it hasnt.

i dont always wear the right protective gears...in the summer i usually ride with a helmet and jeans, coupled with a tshirt. [which is what i was wearing when hit by the car.]

fact, it is highly likely one day you and the bike will part ways, and you will be in pain. but as said above...wear the gear, ride to your abilities, and open your eyes!!!!

[slowpoke]

Never ride in the wet
Never ride in a city or built up area.
Only ride on open road with no twisties at the speed limit or slower at a safe following distance and you should be fairly safe.
I have bailed 6 times in 29 years...none were my fault :laugh:

Started road riding in 1977 on a 250.

First off 1980... Kawasaki H2..gravel road heading out to 90 mile beach,to fast,went onto grass,fell off.

1983 Ducati 900... S bend rail overbridge in the wet,lost both front and rear wheels at once...too fast,slick road,off camber.

1994 Ducati 900 ... Hit a small courier truck on the Symonds St motorway onramp... truck was braking (no brake lights :confused:) as i was checking the lanes to pull out,turned to look ahead :shit:

1996 Ducati 900 ..Lock to lock tank slapper in the wet...big slide,off the road,went over a 12 foot or so bank landing in a swamp. (bike stayed up on the road)

1998 Ducati 900 ..Engine stalled mid turn, by the time i got it sorted had started to run wide hit armco barrier. (low speed)

2006 Suzuki TL1000.. Wet road,sweeping corner,medium speed,back came around..game over.

First thing noticed,poor Ducati,second all could have been avoided except for maybe No 5 (I had put a stock heavy flywheel back in the bike replacing the super light one) so even that may have been avoidable.

...and your long suffering Duke has a personalised plate: "Lucky"

[Maha]

Don't cotton wool the man. Tell 'em straight.


And dont put the shits up him either Patch, there is no way in hell i gear up and think ''fuck is this the day''?....i wouldn't enjoy the ride as much thats for sure, i am however, very am alerted to the fact that ''IT'' could happen anytime, but it does not control my riding. I dont think Chisanga rides with his head in the sand, or the clouds for that matter and being in his 30's i would add that he knows the score when it comes to road skills....:yes:
Not having a go at ya Patch, just adding my 2c worth....or should that be 5c? now :whistle:

[terbang]

Place the responsibility for your survival where it belongs.......with yourself.



Bling Bling..

[Chisanga]

just adding my 2c worth....or should that be 5c? now :whistle:

I think you might find it costs 10c now to have an opinion :(

[Maha]

I think you might find it costs 10c now to have an opinion :(

i have Eftpos..............:nya:

[Shadows]

Never ride in the wet

First off 1980... Kawasaki H2..gravel road heading out to 90 mile beach,to fast,went onto grass,fell off.

1983 Ducati 900... S bend rail overbridge in the wet,lost both front and rear wheels at once...too fast,slick road,off camber.

1994 Ducati 900 ... Hit a small courier truck on the Symonds St motorway onramp... truck was braking (no brake lights :confused:) as i was checking the lanes to pull out,turned to look ahead :shit:

1996 Ducati 900 ..Lock to lock tank slapper in the wet...big slide,off the road,went over a 12 foot or so bank landing in a swamp. (bike stayed up on the road)

1998 Ducati 900 ..Engine stalled mid turn, by the time i got it sorted had started to run wide hit armco barrier. (low speed)

2006 Suzuki TL1000.. Wet road,sweeping corner,medium speed,back came around..game over.

First thing noticed,poor Ducati,second all could have been avoided except for maybe No 5 (I had put a stock heavy flywheel back in the bike replacing the super light one) so even that may have been avoidable.

Damn those Ducatis must be dangerous things!

[Patch]

Sometimes people need the shits put up them, makes them think twice before they do something stupid.

Read the statistics, talk to those who have been riding for years 50 or more. You are more likely to have an accident now than you were ten years ago. Fact. 5 times more vehicles on the roads etc.

Who in there right fukkin mind goes out there to have an accident. :weird: I sure as hell don't. Reality is, it can (no pun intended) does and will happen at some point. We're human, we make mistakes, we ain't perfect.


:Punk:


Ps. Don't put words or meaning in my post that ain't there. I mean what I say - why, 'cause I'm stupid enough to care. Been there, it ain't nice. If I can say or do something, that may help someone . . . great.

[jumma]

Knowing there is a possibility you may crash, and doing all you can to avoid it is the best you can do. As we share the road with so many others, we can't eliminate every cause of an accident. And then there is the fact that on bikes, things like diesel spills and gravel can have far more severe consequences if we don't have time to avoid them. So yes, it's more of a possibility, but not inevitable.

I went for four months before having a spill. Took a right hander at a reasonable pace with the bike leaned over a fair bit, when bang, the exhaust bottomed out on a bump in the middle of the corner and spat the bike out from under me. Would love to blame the road (the bump shouldn't have been there) but I failed to read the road properly and adjust my speed accordingly. I would say I was going a bit quick for a road I had never ridden before as well.

I ended up unscathed, and I owe it all to wearing the right gear. Why do we wear this gear? Because we all know there is the possibility we may come off - our fault, or something beyond our control.

It never worried me before my off, but has taught me to become a bit more aware of the roads I'm riding on now.

So, as much as I didn't want it to happen I have learned something from it. Luckily for me the repair bill was minimal and I was unhurt.

[terbang]

Think I'll go to work from now on with the mental frame of "hey its inevitable that I'm gonna put myself and 150 others into a smoking hole". Anyone keen to come along..?

[SwanTiger]

Essentially it comes down to your ability to understand yourself.

There is the EPR Paradox which describes the work of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen which led to much subsequent, and still on-going, research.

The best way to describe it (and demonstrate my point, which I will eventually get to) is to present two observables, position and momentum. You can put a subatomic particle into a state of well-defined momentum, but then you cannot know its position. Conversely, you can put a particle in a definite position, but then its momentum is completely ill-defined.

Regardless of the various arbitrarily confines, you can never know the true value of both.

This is applicable to motorcycling in the sense you can either control the physical, medical and financial implications of an accident; Or control the circumstances that would cause an accident through advanced training and increased awareness.

Point you have the ability to define the outcome of any situation regardless, however there will always be uncertainty. You can lessen this by quite simply being a good rider. Ixion is an example of someone who can control and find the maximal sets of commuting observables (i.e. keep his shit togeather in a tricky situation).

Yes, I am bored. But think about it.

[Chisanga]

Why do we wear this gear? Because we all know there is the possibility we may come off - our fault, or something beyond our control.


Very true. If we were all convinced we would never or could never crash we would all ride around in stubbies, singlets and jandals.

The desire to protect myself if I do ever come off was the key factor in spending quite a reasonable amount of dosh on gear something that hurt financially but will be worth it if I do ever come off.

Good comments all - keep 'em coming :)

[Maha]

Essentially it comes down to your ability to understand yourself.

There is the EPR Paradox which describes the work of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen which led to much subsequent, and still on-going, research.

The best way to describe it (and demonstrate my point, which I will eventually get to) is to present two observables, position and momentum. You can put a subatomic particle into a state of well-defined momentum, but then you cannot know its position. Conversely, you can put a particle in a definite position, but then its momentum is completely ill-defined.

Regardless of the various arbitrarily confines, you can never know the true value of both.

This is applicable to motorcycling in the sense you can either control the physical, medical and financial implications of an accident; Or control the circumstances that would cause an accident through advanced training and increased awareness.

Point you have the ability to define the outcome of any situation regardless, however there will always be uncertainty. You can lessen this by quite simply being a good rider. Ixion is an example of someone who can control and find the maximal sets of commuting observables (i.e. keep his shit togeather in a tricky situation).

Yes, I am bored. But think about it.


You swallowed a NCEA exam didnt you ??

[terbang]

Very true. If we were all convinced we would never or could never crash we would all ride around in stubbies, singlets and jandals.

The desire to protect myself if I do ever come off was the key factor in spending quite a reasonable amount of dosh on gear something that hurt financially but will be worth it if I do ever come off.

Good comments all - keep 'em coming :)

Riding a motorcycle safely is a total package.

Prevention is more desireable with things like training, currency, a safe bike and the right frame of mind.
Precaution is necessary too as there are possibilities out side of our control hence the need to wear the correct gear.

[SwanTiger]

Very true. If we were all convinced we would never or could never crash we would all ride around in stubbies, singlets and jandals.
:laugh: You obviously haven't seen the pictures floating around this site of me doing wheelies with no helmet while sporting, wait for it... stubbies, singlet and jandals!

[Steam]

You will crash one day.
I heard the average time before an off is five months from getting a learner's license.
I got to three months then had a little slide, and two months off work.
Now I'm more careful, I practise stuff.
I reckon I'll fall off again though.

[Chisanga]

Sexy white legs aye :yes:

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28786&d=1143093787">
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28786&d=1143093787


It seems that a rather indecent act is in the process of being committed upon that innocent fuel tank :gob: :)

[jafar]

If you ride with care & use all your senses then your chances of having a serious off are reduced. This isn't to say you won't have one but the odds are more in your favour. Bikes are a freedom machine, enjoy it but keep your wits about you & you will be fine

[mstriumph]

Saying that crashes are inevitable is just stupid chestbeating wank. .........

absolutely

refuse to get caught up in the testicular bullshit that would have new riders believe its somehow 'big' to be able to brag about your latest bin ...

crashing is best avoided

sometimes you can't - a car out of a blind driveway or similar ............ but,the crashes people have from taking it too close to the edge of their skills and/or ignoring the road conditions, traffic patterns and such .... these CAN be avoided with a bit of commonsense and vigilance.

if you make a point of ALWAYS riding totally in the moment, of treating riding as a sort of moving meditation in which you are totally aware of yourself and all around you, then you should have a reasonable chance of staying safe.

much, MUCH better to have an unscratched bike and an intact hide than a big insurance claim, a bunch of scars and some stupid war story to relate to your mates

....and if your mates would be IMPRESSED by that sort of story, better find someone else to ride with mebbe .............

[_Gina_]

I have seen a few where people are on an unusual slope and can't reach the ground, or have had a bad footing etc.
So true.

I would have put myself in the "I haven't had an accident" bracket, however I have done exactly the above and dropped the VTR1000.

Pulled up too fast on 22 to help someone who had broken down, too much front brake, threw my body weight forward, stopped on an unusual slope (loose metal even) and then was not able to maintain the bike upright as I was on tip toes on loose metal.

[trumpy]

Chisanga,

Read Keth Code over and over and over and over..........................
You will improve your odds of not crashing immeasurably.

[xwhatsit]

No WAY are crashes inevitable. My father has never crashed ever, on a bike. He's had one or two in a car, but never on a bike. And he's been riding for... I don't know how many years lol, I don't know how old he is.

That said, like Ixion, he did a fair bit of dirtbiking first, and took one or two low speed tumbles trying to climb up a hill when stuck, stuff like that.

Your biggest worry is that somebody will do something stupid on the road, to you, not that you'll crash because you made a mistake I think. As long as you ride in a way you feel comfortable, I think crashing by yourself (as I did, but I felt I was going too quick, and got scared) is not that likely. But watch out for other people not giving way, I haven't been riding that long and have already had quite a few incidents where people have just not seen me and done something stupid, but I've been expecting it, so it was OK.

[Animal]

No, riding a bike does not mean you will crash. For my two cents worth, riding is inherently risky but you can manage that risk by being as well-prepared as possible, be patient as you allow your exerience to grow, and develop the right attitude. If you ride within the bounds of your experience and don't let your enthusiasm overtake your capability, you're halfway there. Then, never assume that you've been noticed, and never consider eye contact as an acknowledgment of your presence. If you can imagine that to every other road user you are completely invisible, then you're a lot closer to surviving out there. Finally, your own attitude. Keep it real. If you're a novice rider, then so be it. Every veteral rider was once a novice, so be patient. You cannot make experience grow overnight, so keep within the parameters of what you can manage. We've fairly recently had a KB member fly into a bend on an uninsured 250 Aprilia, lose control by overbraking and lifting the rear wheel, and subsequently wiping out. It's never a happy moment when any fellow rider comes off, but what was bloody infuriating is how quickly he was willing to offer one excuse after the other. There was not a hint of reality, completely unwilling to admit that he scewed up, but instead, blamed everything else as though the wreck was entirely not his fault. Wrong attitude, inexperience, riding outside his capability. For me (and I can say this because I've survived for this long), it's 50% attitude, 40% preparation and 10% circumstance. You can't always control the circumstance - motorists do stupid things, pedestrians don't look, animals do run into your path. But, if your attitude is right, where you're always vigilant and riding within the bounds of being safe, your chances are better than most. Then, as you become more and more exerienced, you're even better equipped to survive and ride through the hazard without crashing. This is all good news! You can adopt the right attitude instantly, right now. more good news: Every day you ride, your experience increases, a bit like investing money. Every day it grows, but it does not reduce unless you choose to. Be alert, be safe, keep it real. You're 90% of the way there, and again, no, you don't have to crash.

[Minnie]

hi all, well i am a newbie, only had L licence for a week, went on my first big ride yesterday one other learner and her hubby, we were cruising along having a lovely time , when it happened, friend was in front of me so saw crash happen, not high speed rounded a corner and off she went into the gravel and crashed..........what had happened was a bumble bee got inside her helmet.........of all freak things to happen!!!!!!!!!! anyway she was ok apart from ripped up her knee a bit and elbow and a lovely elderly couple looked after us until friends came to pick her up one took her to the drs and the other rode her bike home, but gee it shook me up a little as even though it was a freak thing it did show me how quickly something can happen and you have to have your wits about you all the time,

i also dropped my bike yesterday ...for the first time...twice..........once riding down a steep driveway..silly mistake..used wrong brake.....the other when putting bike away , didnt even ride it. was pushing it.......went to put it on stand...oops forgot to put stand out...ha ha oh well

[NighthawkNZ]

If you think you are going to crash... you will... (whether your fault or not)

However saying this, it is not inevitable that you will have a bin, BUT and a big BUT it is a possibility...

So you should be prepared for the possiblity not prepared for the inevitable act else you will be out riding asking your self is it today...???

So ride to your abilities, ride as if every other bugger is out to get you (Including other bikers) Live to ride, ride to live. Have your prective gear on... Stay focused on what you are doing and not worrying about what your hair looks like under your helmet. Think ahead, look ahead, know your surroundings, look many vechiles ahead, (most of the time you can see over them... something cage drivers don't know and or understand... know who is behind you, whats to your left and to your right... know what type of road surface you are on... whats above you, how many seaguls... (well they poop on yah :yes: every bugger is out to get you including the gulls)

If you are uncomfortable riding in certain situations try to avoid them, if you can't avoid, ride to the conditions, take regular breaks, relax...

... And here is a hard one, if not impossible one to do... if you do have a bin try to be relaxed about it during it... being tense you can actually cause more damage to yourself...

[Dodger]

I've been riding my bike for around 6 months now, and was using a borrowed bike before that.

Also been riding a 50cc scooter around Stokes Valley for over a year. (probably the saddest 2 wheeler ever to have a kiwi biker sticker on the back :Punk: )

I've had a few "oh shit" moments, but no bins or drops.... yet.
When riding the bike I wear full gear. On the scooter It's just a helm, jacket and gloves. It's not that the road is any softer on the scooter, but the speeds are less and the trips shorter.

[Citroenjunkie]

I've been riding of and on for the past 30 years. I had one incredible close call when I was 16 and riding a Honda 50, since then I have kept my eyes wide open and ridden very defensively.

It is essential that you find your limits and then work out for yourself how close to them you want to go.

I remember once when I was racing a CB72 Honda in classics. It was pissing down, but I was young and invincible and didn't pay much attention. When I got into the pits my father nearly brained me. The bike was evidently sliding all over the road, but I was so wrapped up chasing a mate I really hadn't noticed. The next practice session I approached the track with far more concentration paid attention to what the bike was doing, worked out how far I was prepared to push the bike and myself and still had a total ball. I wasn't slow either!

I think that the biggest danger is swallowing everyone else's bull and trying to match their real or imagined exploits. You decide how fast or slow you are comfortable riding. I doubt you will lie on your deathbed wishing you'd gone just a bit deeper into that corner, or cut infront of just one more blind bastard in a truck.

It's your life, you decide! :ride:

[Chisanga]

I think that the biggest danger is swallowing everyone else's bull and trying to match their real or imagined exploits. You decide how fast or slow you are comfortable riding. I doubt you will lie on your deathbed wishing you'd gone just a bit deeper into that corner, or cut infront of just one more blind bastard in a truck.

It's your life, you decide! :ride:

I think that was very well put :)

[Blairos]

Simply Put, I dont EVER plan on falling off, but "if" (not when) it happens, I will be in a position, gear-wise, to limit any damage incurred...
No point in wearing it otherwise...

[Disco Dan]

Various sources of statistics have told me:

From the moment you buy your first bike your average life span drops to about 15 years.

The chances are that in the first 6 months of you learning to ride you will fall off/crash.

[Chisanga]

Various sources of statistics have told me:

From the moment you buy your first bike your average life span drops to about 15 years.

The chances are that in the first 6 months of you learning to ride you will fall off/crash.

You mean BY 15 years I assume. I find that hard to believe - could you provide the statistics you mentioned that show this?

[Jamezo]

Hmm. I've spent my time in bike riding constantly pushing myself to my limits.

I've had a couple of bins where my brain has simply shut down and not made a corner (not nearly coming in too hot), one resulting in injury (broken arm).

One bin on gravel when I tried to neatly apex a corner dragging me knee, but other riders ahead took the more sensible option and slowed down. Couldn't really go anywhere with that one. Braking + gravel = sideways.

One bin in the wet where I lost the rear when cranked over mid-corner, with no change of rear wheel torque (bad camber though).

One road accident where I was sideswiped by a car I was splitting past (after aggressively splitting for months and never clipping so much as a mirror), resulting in a badly broken arm.

The interesting part is, all of those corner bins were right-handers. I am now rather apprehensive about right handers, and I need to re-program my brain to improve my riding. I think some carpark sessions might do the trick.

Would I recommend adopting this approach to riding? Not really. Was it productive in terms of raising skill and having obscene amounts of fun? Yeah.

[Disco Dan]

You mean BY 15 years I assume.

oh yes BY 15 years was the stat!

[Crisis management]

I am never sure whether these types of threads are seriously about "I want to ride a bike but don't want to get hurt" or an excuse to get a gratuitous thrill.
A simple reflection on the process of bike riding must make it apparent that it has some safety issues.

It involves balancing at speed on two skinny rubbery things on a changing surface with constantly changing forces enacting on the vehicle.
Left to its own devices a motorbike will lie down.
The act of riding involves constantly challenging your skills, how well have you judged your cornering speed?
A motorcycle is capable of high speeds and it is very tempting to find out what that capability is.

If, from an analysis of the above, you don't realise that at some time gravity is going to win, you must be stupid.

So... there are risks, now, any sensible questions?

[Dai]

I can in all honesty only say, that I do not know if everybody will crash.

All I really know is that I have crashed and all my bike riding friends have at some time, crashed.

The skill I have learnt is too be as aware as I possibly can and hopefully limit the effects of any spills I have.

As I get older it gets harder to recover from these.

[sunhuntin]

Various sources of statistics have told me:

From the moment you buy your first bike your average life span drops to about 15 years.

The chances are that in the first 6 months of you learning to ride you will fall off/crash.

how many years have you lost by the time youve bought 3 or 4 bikes? im guessing my life is down what? 45 years? cos im on my 3rd bike, lol.

[jafar]

these can be used in all kinds of different ways to prove a point.There used to be one floating around that claimed that if you are currently riding a motorcycle of 250cc or more & had been riding for more than 2 years you had been in 2 fatal accidents . I.E you were dead twice over. Not surprising that it wasn't taken seriously.

[madandy]

Some learners simply push a bit harder than others when starting out...attempting stoppies, wheelies etc is gonna lead to a few learner offs for sure.
I started out on a 50cc at age 5 and crashed that a couple of times then didn't hurt myself until I was 13 on a CR250-trying to jump...I've had a SR250, GS650, XR250,AX100, RF400 & YZF600 over the last 12 years and not come close to falling off on the roads.

It may be a case of odds...

Push your limits and you'll find out how lucky/unlucky, skilled/unskilled you are. Ride within your limits and learn every lesson you possibly can...speed is for track days and carfully assessed conditions.

[Macktheknife]

My opinion after 26 years of riding is this; it is not carved in stone that you will crash, it is however, likely that you will put the bike on one of the sides not intended for contact with hard surfaces. Whether this is through an attack of the dumb, forgetting to put ones feet down for example, or through going too fast in a corner, or being too tired to judge things well, it is likely that you will have it happen to you.
Having said that, many people have ridden for many years and had no 'serious accidents', involving bad choices or bad luck, so it is not definite that you will have a 'crash', but you might have a 'bugger'.

[McJim]

My own experience tells me that if you come to motorbikes when you are a bit older (over 30) and with a good deal of road sense already that it's less likely that you will bin the bike.

Many people come to bikes for the thrill and the thrill comes from pushing the envelope a bit. If there was no risk there would be no thrill.

So the question is what would you like to get from your bike?

1/ An economic mode of transport that lets you feel at one with the elements?
2/ A fast accelerating piece of metal upon which much fun can be had?

Bear in mind that (statistically) people who buy performance cars crash more often than people who buy family stationwagons simply because of the reason they bought them - if you drive/ride at the edge of your ability then it will probably go wrong at some point. The consequences of getting it wrong on a motorbike however are almost always worse than when you get it wrong in a Nissan Skyline.

[Motu]

It's very difficult to crash on purpose,and yet every crash has consious decisions leading up to the desired event.With hindsight we can pinpoint where we went wrong - the skill is in making the correct decisions at the correct time.(oh fuck,I am picking up a new speak accent)

I guess reluctantly it is a case for older driving age limits,as the older the learner the less risks are taken.I was riding as a 16 year old and crashing on the first day,and the second day,and....It took some time to see the pattern and make the effort to make a good job of my riding.But I grew up in a time when risk was a part of everyday life,there was no cottonwool and we learned from our mistakes in the real world,not in a classroom.Hazzard awareness was ''Fuck that hurt! maybe I won't use the front brake in gravel again'' Hazzard identified and noted,printed in red and highlighted with a fluro green highlighter.How many credits is that worth?

[Squeak the Rat]

My 12c. There are two types of people:


1. Those who say that a crash is inevitable

2. Those who have never crashed


Common psychology thinking says that if you believe something then your subconcious mind will try to validate that belief.

People who don't understand the principle argue with questions such as "why wear safety gear then?".

Those who understand the principal tell themselves they will stay upright and reduce their risk profile to make this true (ie save the 11/10 stuff for the track) AND at the same time take measures protect themselves from fuckups (like wearing safety gear) because shit can happen no matter how careful you are.


Is it likely that you will crash after years of riding? Probably. Is it inevitable? No.

[Roj]

I think it has been said enough that everyone accepts that crashing is not inevitiable, but that what this statement tries to portray is the significant risk of crashing, and then from there the learning required to reduce the possibility.

My wife was recently involved in a bike accident, she has been riding for years prior to this, never rides hard, never goes beyond her ability, but a cage driver failed to see her and did a right turn in front of her,

the result:

12 broken bones, she now has seven plates, 1 k rod and about 30 or so screws holding everything together, she was wearing very good gear, on a red bike with headlight on....

This is what the advise offered here is aimed at trying to prevent, but sometimes circumstances are such that it doesn't matter how good or careful you are, it can happen, there have been some recent losses of KB members who where very good riders, yet their ability was not enough to protect them

Ride to live and live to ride

[Chisanga]

I am never sure whether these types of threads are seriously about "I want to ride a bike but don't want to get hurt" or an excuse to get a gratuitous thrill.


How about just wanting some accurate feedback based on the experience of people rather than from the generalisations I have heard?

[HDTboy]

I've been riding for around 18 months, and owned two bikes. In that time I've crashed 9 times. 4 on the road, and 5 on the track. I've never crashed anyone elses bike, and am not in a hurry to either.
Some will look at my record, and say I'm irresponsible, or reckless, or other. Those people won't be able to beat me around a track, and I don't give a shit how fast they are on the road. That's not where I go fast any more.
I have mates who have never crashed, and I applaud them for that. I'm prepared to crash, because I like to find the limits of myself and my bike.
It's possible that you will make it to old age without ever crashing, but if you enjoy finding the limits, the chances of that happening are greatly reduced.

[avgas]

Yep its guranteed, if not - your should swap your bike for a car cos your too damn safe

[Ixion]

I've been riding for around 18 months, and owned two bikes. In that time I've crashed 9 times. 4 on the road, and 5 on the track. I've never crashed anyone elses bike, and am not in a hurry to either.
Some will look at my record, and say I'm irresponsible, or reckless, or other. Those people won't be able to beat me around a track, and I don't give a shit how fast they are on the road. That's not where I go fast any more.
I have mates who have never crashed, and I applaud them for that. I'm prepared to crash, because I like to find the limits of myself and my bike.
It's possible that you will make it to old age without ever crashing, but if you enjoy finding the limits, the chances of that happening are greatly reduced.

Well, I don't think the ones on the track count. Track, off road, that's a different story. Racing and road riding are (or should be) quite different things. I've crashed too many times to count off road.

As to the "finding the limits" thing. Well, if you really are doing that, it's fairly trite to say that the track's the place for it. But, I'm not convinced that the phrase has any validity as far as crashes on the road go. People say that piously, but in reality what percentage of crashes on the road are the result of encountering the limits of the machine? Very few , the vast majority are due to either stupidity (what are the "limits" for overtaking on a blind bend ?); rider error (most corner crashes - the rider simply stuffs up); or simply sheer bad luck (sometimes, shit just happens). The crash caused by a low side because the tyres reached the limit of adhesion ? Not unknown, but rare.

If you mean the rider exceeding the limits of his competance, then that's just another way of saying that the rider is incompetant. Nor is crashing any use as a means of improving ones skill. All that you know after a crash is that you stuffed up. You don't know how to do it better.

A competant rider will improve his own skill, his "limits" , not by charging into a corner like a mad bull and crashing, but by going through it at a comfortable speed. Repeating the process until he is taking the corner smoothly and elegantly at that speed. Then increasing the speed a little, and a little more , untill the corner becomes ragged, and no longer smooth and fluid. Then altering slightly his technique, trying one thing and another until smoothness and fluidity are achieved at the higher speed. Rinse, lather, repeat, as often as needed. On the road, stop when you reach the point that you're not making progress. Wait and try again with more miles under your belt. That's the difference between the road and track, on the road you stop when it becomes ragged and you can't get it smooth. On the track, you don't stop you keep pushing it.

I say that using "pushing your limits" as an excuse for crashing (bear in mind I'm talking on the road here, not the track) is evasion . Bullshit in fact.

As for "being too damn safe".Well, that's a certain recipe for crashing. And almost certainly not being a biker for very many years. Cages are full of ex bikers who thought that way.

[HDTboy]

My road crashes were all from riding outside my capabilities. Take from that what you like. I did learn from each of them, and have not made the same mistakes again. I'd consider that a skill improvement.
While I see the merit in your way of approaching skill improvement, I'm young, and impatient. That is why I spend a lot of time and money at the track now.

[Ixion]

We are perhaps speaking of different purposes. You are seeking to find how to ride through corners fast, a subject upon which I am entirely unqualified to comment. I don't do fast. I am speaking of how to ride through corners safely.

One thing that beginners often take time to dscover , is that every corner has a "right" speed (it varies of course, for different bikes and riders, and somewhat with conditions). Taking the corner at a slower speed than that optimum will feel "unsafe", "scarey", as much as taking it at too fast a speed. Sometimes, the best advice for a beginner having trouble with corners, is "speed up, just a little" .When they do, the lines begin to smooth out, the rider does not have to work so hard at the corner.

[Balding Eagle]

I have been riding for a couple of years. I have not fallen off, taken a dive or binned it. I like to think that I am always on the lookout for danger. I agree with Ixion. But then I am older and understand what pain is and feels like and I have no intention or desire of experiencing it.

[bluninja]

Riding and driving since 1980. 1 Road Traffic Accident in 2001 almost killed me and wrote off my bike. Was it my fault? Yes! I made a whole series of bad choices and mistakes leadin up to the crash. Yes the tractor driver should not have pulled out in front of me, but if I'd made different choices his mistake would not have resulted in my crash.

I can (to a degree) control my own actions and choices and that's where I focus my efforts to keep myself safe on the road. Last night I rode home in freezing fog. At one point the fog was so thick that I couldn't see the cats eyes to my right when in the middle of the lane. I not only slowed but moved to the very left of my lane; sure enough a car at speed came wizzing passed me in my lane having not seen me till too late......but he was able to go past without taking me out because of my choice.

Some shit happens that we can't foresee, but stuff like people turning right across you, pulling out of junctions, or running red lights you can plan for and make your own choices.

[Bonez]

Had a few offs. Some my fault, others definately not. Funnilly enough the accident that caused me the most damage, broken tib and fib on my left leg, I didn't come off the bike at all, when the car T'boned me. Haven't had an off or accident for around 15 years or so now.

[bikemike]

Riding 23 years, and no accidents on the road.

Missed out on the off-road experience that appears to make some folks more durable, but have tried to recoup with some training. And fell off plenty there.

I don't believe everyone is out to get me and talking as if they are distorts the reality that we live or die in. In all my time I've only had one car 'try' and get me. What I would say is that it helps to imagine yourself invisible on the road. At the same time that approach can be far more frightening, but also allows you to be the master of all you survey, and not the victim on the run. it's an attitude.

Absolutely accept the statistics, but I'd rather leave the fruit loops to hang around boasting fatalistically from the tops, I seek out the long tail and aim to keep riding and maybe die quietly from old age.

How? Awareness, Responsibility for yourself and Training. Do you slow down and line up the brakes entering intersections? Do you leave the bike at home if you have a cold, or are tired? Do you ever drink a beer on a ride, 'cos everyone else is and one won't put you over the limit? Do you play music on your ride? Do you run through a check list each day you ride, use a mnemonic of some kind? Do you still think you can have fun on a bike if you take it seriously...? Choices.

However, I have had some close calls and it's probably easier to say those are inevitable. It's part of the learning process and part of the reason so many accidents happen so early in one's career. The most memorable of mine was a collection of mistakes, all of which I've learned from: My bike was in the shop for three weeks and I just picked it up. I was tired and cold, had a headache, it was dark, windy and raining and rush hour. I followed the traffic impatiently home and not 2 miles from home I pulled an overtake I shouldn't have attempted. Down the straight towards a right-hander that in daylight has plenty of visibility but car lights make it less certain at night. The road was greasy and I took one too many cars and on approaching the bend, which was adversely cambered by the way, made a decision that I would not get back in lane and get round the bend as the road was too slippery, I'd be breaking on the paint and so on. So I stood the bike up, pulled the brakes on and aimed at the kerb (beyond which was a bit of pavement and a hedge) I stopped about 4 inches from the kerb, with the engine running and the rush hour traffic quietly swishing past me on the sodden roads. Before me, transfixed in my headlights were two people, just at the point of laying wreaths at a white cross. Someone had died here just a few days before.

That's how it feels when it happens to you.

I was unfit to ride, didn't read the conditions, made lousy assumptions and lousy decisions AND I was almost home. Yes.

Motoring at up to 140kph (sanctioned) along something like the Little River / Akaroa road on an assessed ride with a UK Police rider (in the UK) also helped pick other holes in my riding, rather than worrying about speed. It also showed me how systematic riding is safer and faster than most of what we see on the roads.

I personally think my machine control is only average, partly because my off-road skills are lacking -- but at least I've tried to remedy that. However, I'm not convinced that focussing on machine handling is of the greatest benefit for most. I am convinced that the main reason I have stayed out of trouble is that I haven't gotten into it, and that that is because I now pay way more attention to what is going on around me than most road users. Much of what people refer to as road sense, common sense or a sixth sense on the road is actually the result of intentioned and studied awareness. It doesn't just come to you. You have to put the effort in. Sure it looks effortless, and some riders seem to have a guardian angel, or to know just what's going to happen next but it's not supernatural, it's the result of taking their riding seriously.

Hey, sorry long post, but by way of introduction also - my first post:dodge:

[Chisanga]

Riding 23 years, and no accidents on the road.

Missed out on the off-road experience that appears to make some folks more durable, but have tried to recoup with some training. And fell off plenty there.

I don't believe everyone is out to get me and talking as if they are distorts the reality that we live or die in. In all my time I've only had one car 'try' and get me. What I would say is that it helps to imagine yourself invisible on the road. At the same time that approach can be far more frightening, but also allows you to be the master of all you survey, and not the victim on the run. it's an attitude.

Absolutely accept the statistics, but I'd rather leave the fruit loops to hang around boasting fatalistically from the tops, I seek out the long tail and aim to keep riding and maybe die quietly from old age.

How? Awareness, Responsibility for yourself and Training. Do you slow down and line up the brakes entering intersections? Do you leave the bike at home if you have a cold, or are tired? Do you ever drink a beer on a ride, 'cos everyone else is and one won't put you over the limit? Do you play music on your ride? Do you run through a check list each day you ride, use a mnemonic of some kind? Do you still think you can have fun on a bike if you take it seriously...? Choices.

However, I have had some close calls and it's probably easier to say those are inevitable. It's part of the learning process and part of the reason so many accidents happen so early in one's career. The most memorable of mine was a collection of mistakes, all of which I've learned from: My bike was in the shop for three weeks and I just picked it up. I was tired and cold, had a headache, it was dark, windy and raining and rush hour. I followed the traffic impatiently home and not 2 miles from home I pulled an overtake I shouldn't have attempted. Down the straight towards a right-hander that in daylight has plenty of visibility but car lights make it less certain at night. The road was greasy and I took one too many cars and on approaching the bend, which was adversely cambered by the way, made a decision that I would not get back in lane and get round the bend as the road was too slippery, I'd be breaking on the paint and so on. So I stood the bike up, pulled the brakes on and aimed at the kerb (beyond which was a bit of pavement and a hedge) I stopped about 4 inches from the kerb, with the engine running and the rush hour traffic quietly swishing past me on the sodden roads. Before me, transfixed in my headlights were two people, just at the point of laying wreaths at a white cross. Someone had died here just a few days before.

That's how it feels when it happens to you.

I was unfit to ride, didn't read the conditions, made lousy assumptions and lousy decisions AND I was almost home. Yes.

Motoring at up to 140kph (sanctioned) along something like the Little River / Akaroa road on an assessed ride with a UK Police rider (in the UK) also helped pick other holes in my riding, rather than worrying about speed. It also showed me how systematic riding is safer and faster than most of what we see on the roads.

I personally think my machine control is only average, partly because my off-road skills are lacking -- but at least I've tried to remedy that. However, I'm not convinced that focussing on machine handling is of the greatest benefit for most. I am convinced that the main reason I have stayed out of trouble is that I haven't gotten into it, and that that is because I now pay way more attention to what is going on around me than most road users. Much of what people refer to as road sense, common sense or a sixth sense on the road is actually the result of intentioned and studied awareness. It doesn't just come to you. You have to put the effort in. Sure it looks effortless, and some riders seem to have a guardian angel, or to know just what's going to happen next but it's not supernatural, it's the result of taking their riding seriously.

Hey, sorry long post, but by way of introduction also - my first post:dodge:


Great first post and some really interesting reading in there. Welcome to the site :)

[Aitch]

That a crash is pretty likely, whether it's your fault or someone elses. Those who have ridden a brazilion kms and never crashed are probably a bit like the old fart wheezing that he's smoked for 50 years and never had cancer, so obviously smoking doesn't cause cancer....a statistical blip!
But you go out there, recognize that most other road users are trying to kill you (including other riders), get the best safety gear that you can afford, ride to the conditions and you may get away without a crash....or you may be skittled by the old fart (who has smoked for 50 years etc) while he's lighting the next smoke and not watching the road!

[bikemike]

Hey thanks Chisanga. Been reading for a while, seeing who's who and all that, but thought I'd jump in on this one. Hope it helps.


most other road users are trying to kill you Whilst clearly recognising the dangers out there, this is patently untrue, and doesn't help you work out how to survive.

There's two kinds of people in this world, those who believe there's two kinds of people and those who don't. I don't. It's not a war, it's a dance.

[Patch]

That a crash is pretty likely, whether it's your fault or someone elses. Those who have ridden a brazilion kms and never crashed are probably a bit like the old fart wheezing that he's smoked for 50 years and never had cancer, so obviously smoking doesn't cause cancer....a statistical blip!
But you go out there, recognize that most other road users are trying to kill you (including other riders), get the best safety gear that you can afford, ride to the conditions and you may get away without a crash....or you may be skittled by the old fart (who has smoked for 50 years etc) while he's lighting the next smoke and not watching the road!


:laugh: :laugh: and yet so very true :clap: :clap: :clap:

Lost a childhood friend to a similar situation, sometimes the truth is cruel and harsh.

Ride safe

[Patch]

There's two kinds of people in this world, those who believe there's two kinds of people and those who don't. I don't. It's not a war, it's a dance.

Perhaps you should watch Dr. Phil TV3 @ 1pm, very interesting person to listen too


Good vs. Evil as a dance :no: don't think so fred

[bikemike]

I don't have a TV, and I don't know or care who or what Dr Phil is.

If you take the attitude that it's a war between you and 'them' then I reckon you increase the chances of it turning out like war. I wasn't referring to any bogeyman, or good versus evil nonsense, just playing with imagery, to describe how I play the game, as opposed to how others play the game.

Some go out to war, believe everyone is out to get them, that the others all drive 'cages' and that they will crash, sorry 'bin'. That just puts a street-talk spin on what is a serious and fatal business. Some still believe they are good and the 'others' are evil/bad. Most conveniently omit the fact that most motorcyclists drive cars also.

What I'm saying is that I don't accept that going out with the attitude that they are all out to kill you is a good enough plan, nor any kind of approximation for the truth. Talk to a pilot about how he/she mitigates the risks. You reckon they all go up thinking that hitting the deck unexpectedly is bound to happen. Probably not.

There's so much each of us can do to avoid situations that we might think are inevitable. Ride Safe, sure, of course, who would disagree? But what does that mean? Wear good gear and treat it like a battleground? That doesn't cut it for me.

How many times do you hear 'that bastard was trying to knock me off my bike'? Almost never I'd say. How many times do you hear 'I didn't see you'? Heaps, most of the time I reckon.

So, do we go out thinking they are all out to kill us, or that we are invisible?

Besides, that's just focussing on what they do to us. What about what we do to ourselves? a large chunk of the stats by the way, as in the example I gave.

[trumpy]

There is an often repeated mantra on this site...."all cagers are out to kill you!"......
I think this is more of a perception than a reality that is passed on from biker to biker like a juicy piece of gossip. I might well be leading a charmed life but the statement does not fit my experience. While I have had the odd "experience" or two with car drivers, given the number I encounter on any ride I have been pleasantly surprised at how many will pull to the left to let me pass without having to cross the centre line and occaisionally, in the twisties, almost come to a stop to let myself and others carry on through. I always acknowledge their actions and am constantly surprised at how many bikers do not. Like I said, maybe I am lucky. Either that or the sight of a leather clad blimp on a canary yellow bike is too much for some drivers to have in their rear view mirrors, or maybe they just need a good laugh.......("hey kids, take a look at this!!....)

Just a few points from the article mentioned in my last post in this thread;(please bear in mind this is a discussion Titled "Are Car Drivers The Problem?" and is in reference to the involvement of cagers in biker deaths i.e they are all out to kill you).
"Sussex Police Inspector Simon Labbett spent many years trying to understand why bikers die........His research tracked down what kinds of bike were involved in all 55 fatal accidents in Sussex between 2000 and 2003.....of the 55 fatalities, 37 occurred on sportbikes, 11 on sports tourers, two on commuters, one on a tourer and one on a retro.....and in more than 9 out of 10 of these deaths, rider error - usually excessive speed - was the main cause of the crash.............The reasons why car drivers take the rap are easy enough to understand even if they are flawed....most bike collisions happen in built up areas and those are indeed someone else's fault - a driver emerging from a side road and the familiar "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" story. However most fatal accidents happen in 60mph limits on open roads. Failure to see the bike (as a reason for the accident) goes down dramatically and rider error becomes much more significant....."
Food for thought for all of us, methinks.

[Mr. Peanut]

Essentially it comes down to your ability to understand yourself.

There is the EPR Paradox which describes the work of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen which led to much subsequent, and still on-going, research.

The best way to describe it (and demonstrate my point, which I will eventually get to) is to present two observables, position and momentum. You can put a subatomic particle into a state of well-defined momentum, but then you cannot know its position. Conversely, you can put a particle in a definite position, but then its momentum is completely ill-defined.

Regardless of the various arbitrarily confines, you can never know the true value of both.

This is applicable to motorcycling in the sense you can either control the physical, medical and financial implications of an accident; Or control the circumstances that would cause an accident through advanced training and increased awareness.

Point you have the ability to define the outcome of any situation regardless, however there will always be uncertainty. You can lessen this by quite simply being a good rider. Ixion is an example of someone who can control and find the maximal sets of commuting observables (i.e. keep his shit togeather in a tricky situation).

Yes, I am bored. But think about it.

Science communication 101. KISS.

Life is random, ride like a nana.

[86GSXR]

After 30 years of riding, I have had my fair share of offs, nearly all of them on off road bikes, both on and off the road - if that makes any sense. Fortunately, none of them were particulary serious and nearly all occurred during that vital earlier phase of gaining experience, getting to know your own, and your bikes limits. Some were unavoidable ie, logs on the track, oil on the road, gravel, not being seen, and others were totally avoidable, and caused by not driving to the conditions, excessive speed, and inexperience.

My experience has taught me to never take anything associated with bikes for granted, the vital importance of knowing your limits (which will differ from day to day) and to continually work on your situational awareness everytime you put on a helmet and take to the road. Apart from the sheer joy associated with having all of your senses so vitally alive when immersed in the biking environment, it goes without saying that it's an environment that has the potential to cause us harm if we dont prepare for and respect every time we enter it.

It's impossible to say that one will never fall off, my last one was five years ago now (low speed gravel trap thank god) but you can minimise the chances of damage by using the best quality protective gear you can buy, keep your bike maintained, work on it yourself - get to know it, and most importantly, yourself. Listen to that sixth sense that tells you you are about to, or have already moved beyond the limit of your experience. Don't move up to a more powerful machine until you are ready, you will know when the time is right. Learn how to corner, there are some great articles on counter steering on here! Above all, enjoy the privilege of being on two wheels. Hope this helps, cheers.

[Toaster]

I have no first hand knowledge of this topic at all so I would be interested if people could state if they have crashed, how 'serious' it was and whether it occured in, say, their first three months of riding their bike.


Badly broke two bones in my foot, going all of about 20/40 kmh and almost came off. Stamped my foot down after losing traction in bizarre circumstances. Very painful and learned a great deal from my error.

Dont ride a bike beyond your skill level when tired and when its been frosty on the road!

[NighthawkNZ]

If you are not in the right frame of mind... don't ride this day for your mind is trying to tell you something

[Chisanga]

Well I thought I better update this in lieu of my accident today.

It may not be true that EVERYONE who has ever ridden a motorbike crashes but I think you need to be damn lucky, skillful, and somewhat blessed to avoid ever crashing.

I came off after almost two months of riding and just over 3000km, I hope this will be my only accident but it would be ignorant and foolish of me to assume that I will never come off again.

I'm just going to keep practising and learning and by preparing myself the best I can I plan on minimising the effects of the next "incident" that befalls me whilst out on the roads.

Stay safe and enjoy everyone :)

James

[DEATH_INC.]

Take it from me, you will crash, sometimes often. Shit happens, just be ready for it when it does and you'll be fine.

[RC1]

ironic you started this thread, now you have the experience first hand im sure you did your best to the avoid accident but sometimes its not entirely possible, glad your not badly hurt ,

[Chisanga]

ironic you started this thread, now you have the experience first hand im sure you did your best to the avoid accident but sometimes its not entirely possible, glad your not badly hurt ,

We have the "Scottish Rider" to thank for pointing out the above mentioned irony to me and provoking my re-visit to this thread :)

[Mr. Peanut]

Glad I odn't live in auckland. Low traffic volumes FTW.

[Chisanga]

Glad I odn't live in auckland. Low traffic volumes FTW.


It only takes one mate.

[Mr. Peanut]

It only takes one mate.

Law of averages. Bro.

Less intermasections and traffic lights. In fact, theres only one, the Kopu bridge *snigger*

[terbang]

Though I had an off last week I still subscribe to the "its Possible" rather than the 'Its inevitable' . I have now averaged one every 10 years and all of them were caused by a string of errors with me, the rider, being the biggest player (error). The rider is always the last line of defence. My latest had all the hallmarks of me being tired playing a big part, which seems to be a thing we all feel at this time, as we settle into a new year.

[Ixion]

Tired is bad, though personally I find tired just makes me go slower and slower . Hungry is bad too, I know my lines get rough as hell when I'm hungry. And worse, hungry actually makes me want to go faster, not slower, sort of panicy. Why I always carry nuts and chocolate (assuming a certain Frosty person hasn't ridden over the chocolate!) .

[bikemike]

Glad you are OK, but what can we learn from your incident?

[bluninja]

I know this thread is specifically for bikes, but......is it true that everyone crashes? even in a cage?

I now commute 1000kms a week and 20% of that time I'm filtering because of the congestion...very busy motorways.

In the last 3 months on my route I've seen the aftermath of one minor motorbike accident (no injury to rider) due to some bad filtering (lane splitting). In the same time I've seen over 40 multi vehicle cage accidents, 1 of which was a head on that closed the road and required 3 ambulances.

Lots of threads on KB about bikes going down (yeah I know it's a bike site, and often we may know those involved, if only to nod/wave to) may give the impression that bikes are unstable dangerous machines that should be banned from the road...oh they are dangerous?? Maybe a bit of balance is needed. How about a thread to keep 'score' of the numbers of cage crashes v bike crashes as observed by kbers?

[Chisanga]

I would be very interested to see statistics (if they exist) comparing motorbike and cage crashes as a percentage of total motorbikes/cages on the road.

Anybody have any clue what said statistics might show?


I know this thread is specifically for bikes, but......is it true that everyone crashes? even in a cage?

I now commute 1000kms a week and 20% of that time I'm filtering because of the congestion...very busy motorways.

In the last 3 months on my route I've seen the aftermath of one minor motorbike accident (no injury to rider) due to some bad filtering (lane splitting). In the same time I've seen over 40 multi vehicle cage accidents, 1 of which was a head on that closed the road and required 3 ambulances.

Lots of threads on KB about bikes going down (yeah I know it's a bike site, and often we may know those involved, if only to nod/wave to) may give the impression that bikes are unstable dangerous machines that should be banned from the road...oh they are dangerous?? Maybe a bit of balance is needed. How about a thread to keep 'score' of the numbers of cage crashes v bike crashes as observed by kbers?

[terbang]

Tired is bad, though personally I find tired just makes me go slower and slower. Hungry is bad too, I know my lines get rough as hell when I'm hungry. And worse, hungry actually makes me want to go faster, not slower, sort of panicy. Why I always carry nuts and chocolate (assuming a certain Frosty person hasn't ridden over the chocolate!) .

Thats an important issue and very relavent. That morning I had dragged my arse out of bed at 0400 AM and had done a longish day at work (riding the Boeing). I finished in time to quickly get home, suit up and make it to the Autobahn for the SATNR. Grabbed a quick coffee there and off we went. A combination of being tired, hungry and also just a dumb ass, (gung ho) I can do it regardless attitude, saw me making a string of errors. This ultimately saw me fall for a fundamental trap and bin it. I had recognised my tiredness and was riding at a slower pace though my lines were terrible having had more than one little fright prior to the final crunch. This is no excuse, just an explanation as to how I proved the possible, possible.
There are times when it runs like clockwork with perfect lines (well you know what I mean), good handling and a good smoothe flowing ride and yet there are times when no matter what we do, we are all over the show making hard work of it all with lots of little scares. The difference between the two is probably our level of fatigue affecting our mental and cognitive state. Being well rested and watered has a big bearing on our performance, especially (dare I say it) as you get a bit longer in the tooth.

[BUNGY]

I was advised to start off on a cheap bike with no fairings because I would bin whilst learning to ride but haven't really had a close call yet. Maybe riding a scooter for a year helped when learning to ride a bike but didn't have any problems while learning to ride that either.

[Arthur]

I wouldn't say everyone crashes either - off-road, it is a case of when, not if. On the road though, the old boy scouts motto comes to mind - "prepare for the worst, and hope for the best." Personally, I've been riding for over twenty years now (alright - the first ten were on the back of a quad-bike), and the majority of my offs have all been my fault - things like not reading the terrain properly, or trying to push th bike to hard through a corner or over a jump. Even the first two offs I had with a road bike were my fault (washing out on gravel, spinning out on wet ground) - but the last one was not. I got taken out by a car that was turning right - he claims he never saw me. Mind you, it's one way of slowing down from 50 k's...

[Roj]

I got taken out by a car that was turning right - he claims he never saw me. Mind you, it's one way of slowing down from 50 k's...

I think this is what is meant by many comments on this thread...

While every rider does what they can to be safe there are drivers out there who don't care, my wife was knocked off her bike 6 months ago by an unlicensed driver in an unregistered car turning right, who "didn't see" her, how a bright red bike with headlight on can be missed from 20 metres away is the question (thre driver did get convicted but the sentence was just a slap on the wrist)

[Arthur]

He was just a young guy (about twenty) going to play touch with his brother and a mate. Most of you I know can see a rider coming the other way (both of you doing a hundy) when s/he is almost completey obscured (southern motorway in Auckland is perfect example - sometimes the traffic is split into two levels) yet you can see the rider without making any effort to look. A bike can stop in a very short space from 50 - I'd say about 5 metres. What I fail to understand, is how a driver cannot see someone, directly in front of them from that distance. Particularly when that person is on a motorcycle and has done what they can to make themselves visible. ACC might pay wages for time off, and the bike is insured, but all I seem to get out of this crash is a plastic testicle cos some clown had his eyes closed

[vifferman]

I was going to say, "All crashes are avoidable/preventable", but I'm not 100% sure that's the case, so I'll say instead, "Almost all crashes are preventable". Just to leave an 'out'.
Certainly, all the crashes I've had were avoidable. Not all were my fault, but even those that weren't technically my fault, I could have avoided.

The earlier ones were due to inexperience or bad decisions. More recent ones were due to carelessness and/or bad decisions.

Here's some examples:
1. Total noob, no licence - I dropped my first bike at the end of the test ride, in the garden of the owner (no damage). I found it heavy and difficult to handle at slow speed.
2. Pulling out of work, I clipped a car with my handlebar, and went splat. I didn't see it because it was dusk, rainy, and I was wearing a tinted visor. I also didn't allow for poor visibility and check more carefully.
3. Swerving around some people standing on the road, I hit a patch of gravel right on the corner behind them. I didn't see it, because I was watching them (they were moving) and they obscured my vision of the gravel.
4. I hit a cyclist who turned right in front of me. She didn't look before turning. I was going a little too fast, and didn't use my front brake to emergency brake, so couldn't stop in time.
5. I t-boned a car that failed to give way to the right at an uncontrolled intersection. I didn't see them because I wasn't alert, and because I was clowning around. When I did see them, I froze (didn't brake, didn't swerve).

So, all these were in my first 18 months of biking, and all were due to noobiness and carelessness.

I had no crashes on my second, third, or fourth bikes. I did recognise when I had my fourth bike that I was becoming a little blasé about my riding, and a bit reckless, and considered either giving it up, or getting something like a cruiser.

<!---->Bike 5 was a disaster. It had obviously developed a taste for blood, or was jinxed! It had been crashed before I bought it, and must've liked it. Or maybe my realisation about my recklessness was correct.
1. I low-sided on a squashed softdrink can. I didn't see it on the road, as all the paint had been rubbed of it, so it was sort of road-coloured. I hit it with my front tyre at the instant I tipped into the corner, and was on the road in a split second. It took me a while to work out what had caused it.
Bad luck? Well, I didn't think so, and learned to scan the road surface for debris before setting up for a corner.
2. I hit a pedestrian who was crossing illegally (against the lights). I paused, sounded the horn, then [I]decided she was going to continue across the road, and went around behind her. Unfortunately, once I'd committed to this course of action, she changed her mind, and turned (away from me) before stepping into my path. I could have avoided this if I'd left work a minute later/earlier, given her more room, sounded the horn more than once, proceeded more slowly, watched her more carefully (instead of assuming that she'd carry on walking).
4. A car changed lanes on me abruptly, when the driver decided she was in the wrong lane and changed line before checking it was clear. I'm not sure if she clipped my front wheel, or I dropped the bike when braking then swerving. I was nearly at my destination, and had possibly dropped my guard, and was less wary than I should've been.
5. A car u-turned into me. When I came up behind him, I saw that his windows were fogged/rain obscured, and slowed down, as I was unsure if he knew I was there. My instinct was to give him a melodious tootle, but when he pulled back into the kerb, I assumed he'd seen me. In fact, he was doing his morning routine: start car, pull out from kerb, drive down road a few metres, crack a u-turn. Which is what he did. At the point he cracked a u-turn, I'd already decided he was stopping, and accelerated past. I swerved, but obviously a u-turning car can turn faster than a swerving bike. It was legally his fault (he didn't indicate or check the way was clear), but I could have avoided it.


What about other circumstances, like where someone rear-ends you? Well, there are still things you can do. I was rear-ended on my Firestorm - luckily at only slow speed. I guess the driver behind me thought I was about to go, and started to take off. Now I keep an eye on my mirrors when thinking about braking at orange lights, and don't if I'm being closely followed. I also keep an eye on them if I'm sitting at a stop sign or red light with no-one behind me, so I can move forward a bit if necessary.

At intersections, I make sure people can see me, and tootle them if not sure. Likewise, I always tootle people backing out of driveways if there's any doubt. Not a loud, rude PARP!!, just a quick blip on the button to let them know I'm there.


I try not to assume I know what people are doing. I've become very good at reading whatever the car version of body language is, and can usually tell if someone is going to change lanes. I'm not sure what it is - perhaps a barely detectable slowing down, a change in their lane position, or what, but I'm seldom wrong. (The u-turning Audi driver was an example of drawing the wrong conclusions from the observations.) I wouldn't stake my life on it though.


I try not to let my testosterone or pride get in the way of safe riding. Sometimes it still happens, and I've been lucky it hasn't (yet) resulted in a crash.


I recognise that sometimes my headspace isn't conducive to safe riding, and try to rein myself in. Being a head case, this sometimes isn't easy, and my most recent 'incident' (dropping the bike/doing a faceplant while undertaking on the footpath) was an embarrassing and sobering reminder to do a systems check before riding.


Riding to the conditions has never been a problem, as I have a vivid imagination, remember well the horrible sickening feeling of the inevitable crash, and so I ride like a pussy when it's wet and/or the road's wet.


I hope all this crapola helps someone there to learn from my misadventures. I've had remarkably few crashes and injuries considering the way I ride, and that I've been riding since 1974-ish...

[MSTRS]

Are crashes inevitable?? That being the question, I'd have to say the answer is 'Yes'. How bad the outcome is largely down to luck.

[bikemike]

Though I had an off last week I still subscribe to the "its Possible" rather than the 'Its inevitable' .

Absolutely! Possible I can agree with, inevitable is utter bollocks mostly promoted by those who have come off who think their life experience proves stuff. Any stuff.

It's utterly obvious that it is false to say it is inevitable. Plenty of folks have said they haven't come off, and if they popped their clogs today, or gave up the saddle, they would prove the failing of that rhetoric.

What are you all saying, "I rode for years and years, all over the place until I finally came off" Good work. For those that haven't succeeded in coming off yet, just keep on trying...

[d.mcmeel]

Role 10 dice and you might never get 10 six's but you might... as someone else said, you can (and should) take all the precaution you can but if some tool in a subaru Impretza corners on the wrong side of the road the only thing thats probably going to save you is a time machine. Having said that there are courses to increase your awareness, reading the landscape the topography riding for to what you can actually see... interesting stuff and can make the whole expereice a little safer... load the dice in your favour!

[Jantar]

A bike can stop in a very short space from 50 - I'd say about 5 metres.
Yes, a bike can stop in a very short space, but 5 meters from 50 is just a tad shorter than is possible. Perfect tyres on a perfect surface and 0.5 seconds reaction time and 0.8 G decelleration will give a total stopping distance of 23.5 m

IOW, allow a much greater stopping distance than what your instincts would suggest.

[Gremlin]

Yes, a bike can stop in a very short space, but 5 meters from 50 is just a tad shorter than is possible. Perfect tyres on a perfect surface and 0.5 seconds reaction time and 0.8 G decelleration will give a total stopping distance of 23.5 m
While it was a test, so reaction wouldn't be counted, I pulled my 7 up, from 70, in roughly 2.5 car lengths, at the BRONZ course. Surface also was more grippy. Shouldn't assume you can always do that tho.

As for crashing... I made it 3-4 months... then I found 2 ditches in 3 days. Both my fault, combination of lack of skills, and wrong reaction. I count it as a good thing, as I learnt some good lessons from them, that I needed to learn.

I would say its pretty inevitable... it sounds defeatist, but it also depends on how long rider has been riding, skills, and how they react to something. Learner instinct is to panic, and generally grab the brakes in a death grip... which is the worst thing you can do... (my bins kinda taught me that :innocent: )

*touch wood* I haven't had another bin since, but a truck did try to turn me into road fodder at an intersection, luckily it was just a stationary drop, as I couldn't hold the bike against the trucks nudge :shit:

[fatnold]

27 years on a range of bikes from 70cc to 1 litre. 3 bins, all my fault, but plenty of near misses caused by others. It's not inevitable, but plan for it to be that way!

[Guitana]

if you dont crash you aint riding it hard enough!!!!!!!!

[LilSel]

I hadnt binned up till August last year... had been riding for 14 months... first bin=ditch, havent dropped or come off again since. Under the impression that its something that could n possibly will happen when still learning... Mine was due to inexperience, speed and lack of confidence.... I have however learnt from that n am a better rider now because of it.

[Big Dave]

There is a high probability that you will fall off a motorcycle eventually if you ride one long enough.

Physics, human error (not necessarily rider's) and gravity are immutable.

Sooner or later the numbers will conspire. Realise and manage the risk.

All newbies should have it pounded into them that this is dangerous, thrill seeking shit with a sliding scale of danger depending on how and what you ride.

You want to be safe and comfortable? - go to bed.

But be prepared for the worst every time you throw a leg over and dress for the crash - not the ride.

That doesn't mean full leathers every time you nip down to the shop either. But not Jandals by the same token.

[Pixie]

I think this is what is meant by many comments on this thread...

While every rider does what they can to be safe there are drivers out there who don't care, my wife was knocked off her bike 6 months ago by an unlicensed driver in an unregistered car turning right, who "didn't see" her, how a bright red bike with headlight on can be missed from 20 metres away is the question (thre driver did get convicted but the sentence was just a slap on the wrist)

Two ways this happens:
Motion camouflage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_camouflage
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/general-discussion/37778-motion-camouflage.html
And mindset,Which allows the failure to see anything you are not looking for.
e.g. if you are looking for a redhead in a crowd,you don't register anyone but redheads
-Some car drivers just don't look for bikes

[Holy Roller]

One of our Ulysses members has never come off and he still rides at 83.
It dosen't mean that one will fall off but go with the advise from Big Dave. It seems that the days one underdresses for the ride is when it was most needed to be fully kitted. Thats my experience.
If one dose not push the limits of their experience and capabilities then the likelyhood of coming to grief is less, Most people I know explore their limits on a daily basis.

A workmate a few weeks ago was passing a truck when the truck turned right into a driveway on the open road leaving nowhere to go. The result was 8 broken ribs a puntured lung, broken collar bone, and legs smashed that were only just saved. It will be long road to recovery. Many who have been riding for some time have similar stories to tell. I walked away from a head on yet my mate fell off on a gentle bend going slow and never made it to the hospital. I still ride and have and do push the limits at times, but that is my choice.
We each make the choice and many have chosen not to due to some reason or another

[Freebird]

Fell of dirt bikes plenty when I was in my teens but I've never had an off on the road. I've only had two road bikes first was a 1988 CBR1000 second 1999CBR1100XX. Over the past 15 years I've covered around 100,000kms on those two bike so I would say no it is not inevitable that anyone will crash but it's allways good to treat riding as if it were!

[Disco Dan]

I hope that the statement "Everyone crashes/bins it/offs" is proven wrong by your replies.


karma dude... shouldnt mess with it :dodge: :dodge: :dodge:

[Bangbug]

Well I'd put it this way.
Have you ever seen Mr Rossi crash?
Is anyone as good as him?
I've binned it in a gay little avoidance crash in the wet. I doubt any racer has ever kept on skinnies his whole career. I don't wanna crash again, but with the state of retards on the road, i will. If i bin on a corner all by myself, i'll be pissed but happy i was pushin so hard. Assuming im still kickin

[Bangbug]

oh and........ if you don't fall off a dirt bike u suck. push push push till you do something which is too hard for you (at the time) and you bin it. learning hurts

[Freebird]

Well I'd put it this way.
Have you ever seen Mr Rossi crash?
Is anyone as good as him?
I've binned it in a gay little avoidance crash in the wet. I doubt any racer has ever kept on skinnies his whole career. I don't wanna crash again, but with the state of retards on the road, i will. If i bin on a corner all by myself, i'll be pissed but happy i was pushin so hard. Assuming im still kickin


Mr Rossi rides in comp's on closed tracks he can afford to crash, we my friend ride on the public roads (sorry you may ride on a track I don’t know) but there is a very big difference

[irishlad]

I've come off 3 times since November.
First- left light turning right in wrong gear. Revved too much as battey flat.
Second- first time in rain. I stopped bike kept going.
Third- Tonight.I snatched front brake. Bike went down to left. Smashed mirror. Grazed knee. Scared me shitless.
Tomorrow not sure if going to work on bike. Will take out in evening to fight my demons.

[BarBender]

I think its inevitable that we are going to "damage our bikes."

Its a matter of where we do it along the speed spectrum:
from standing still all the way through to 200+kph.

[Arthur]

Yes, a bike can stop in a very short space, but 5 meters from 50 is just a tad shorter than is possible. Perfect tyres on a perfect surface and 0.5 seconds reaction time and 0.8 G decelleration will give a total stopping distance of 23.5 m

IOW, allow a much greater stopping distance than what your instincts would suggest.

I've heard back from my insurance company about why my claim is taking so long to settle. The guy is claiming I was speeding - I don't remember, but I'm not saying I was or wasn't. The strange thing is, he told the cops he pulled out cos he thought he was all clear, so what makes him think I was speeding? O.5 second reaction time, that would give me about 10 metres to get my hands over the levers at 50 kays, and he was right in front of me by then. Oh well, such is life...

[KATWYN]

I would be interested if people could state if they have crashed, how 'serious' it was and whether it occured in, say, their first three months of riding their bike.

I hope that the statement "Everyone crashes/bins it/offs" is proven wrong by your replies.

.

I know where you are coming from. Well for what its worth - I had a crash recently after nearly 8 years road riding.

It was entirely my fault - I let my guard down - and made an assumption of what the driver in front was going to do.....I was wrong.

However,......I collided into the side of the car....but managed to say upright and on the bike! so theres different degrees of the word "crash"

[The Pastor]

I know where you are coming from. Well for what its worth - I had a crash recently after nearly 8 years road riding.

It was entirely my fault - I let my guard down - and made an assumption of what the driver in front was going to do.....I was was wrong.

However,......I collided into the side of the car....but managed to say upright and on the bike! so theres different degrees of the word "crash"

That was a traffic INCIDENT! Not a CRASH as per say..

[KATWYN]

That was a traffic INCIDENT! Not a CRASH as per say..

sweet, well if thats the case....so far so good in 8 years of road riding :innocent:

cheers RM

[avgas]

not everyone crashes, some people also win lotto

[bluninja]

Started riding 1980, only crash 2001 hurt a lot, off work for 6 months.

Riding 1000ks a week currently, observe aftermath of multi vehicle pile up every other day (4 cars on 4 lane highway this morning), only 2 motorbikes, both filtering incidents with no serious injury.

[hurricane_r]

personaly, if your a comuter you maybe not crash, but if you wanna build your self to be a faster rider, you have to be prepared, not so much as for a crash*, but drops, you can learn from your mistakes, if your consistant afraid of crashing *droping* your bike, you can never push your and your bikes limits, thus limiting your own ability, if that makes sense,

[Big Matt]

It took me a year and a half before I crashed. I had heard that everyone crashes too. Hoped like hell that I wouldnt, but was worried enough that when I did end up seeing " road sky road sky gravel dust sky dust dust" at least I was wearing good leathers, good helmet and a back protector. (yes gloves and boots too for the smart arses) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Good luck out there.

[bluninja]

personaly, if your a comuter you maybe not crash, but if you wanna build your self to be a faster rider, you have to be prepared, not so much as for a crash*, but drops, you can learn from your mistakes, if your consistant afraid of crashing *droping* your bike, you can never push your and your bikes limits, thus limiting your own ability, if that makes sense,

If I want to push I'll go to the track....that's what they're for......if I crash there I get up, dust off, think about what happened and then learn.....I then take that learning out with me on the road.

commuting...maybe not crash??? My average daily commute speed is 100kmh(inluding the time I spend in the gas station filling up) and I ride all year round......my cruising speed if I weren't so law abiding would be round about 140 kmh and I travel amongst the busiest roads in Europe. Statistically speaking I have far more risk of crashing during my commute, than the average wannabe out for a scratch. In addition I ride whatever the weather (except snow); I don't skip cos it's wet, or windy, or I'm not in the mood.

Crashing is a bit like carbon debt.....I'm letting someone else take on my crash debt.

[hurricane_r]

zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

dont be a pussy

[bluninja]

I'm not a pussy, I'm a nana...and that's mister nana to you

[FROSTY]

add overconfidence to undercompetence you get CRASH

[Mr. Peanut]

add overconfidence to undercompetence you get CRASH

Overconfidence + Incompetence = Incontinence?

[FROSTY]

vey good peanut ol son

[dogsnbikes]

1990 was my year.......

Riding down greenlane east and was T boned in my rigth hand side.....:dodge: after picking myself up of the road I could hear my bike running and only worried about my bike I went to save her next thing I know Im back on my arse again some lovely lady through me back to the ground....yelling at me dont move you just had a accident (would've been ok if she hadn't of thrown me on the ground .....:gob:

when the ambulance turned up I walked in and even walked into the hospital wasn't until I got out of my leathers(thank cows for leather) my injuries were worse than I first thought

having a broken left arm and dislocated left knee joint I was sort of in a bad way......but that never put me of riding and just made me more aware of the unexpected and proves that the right gear is worth the investment :Punk:

[Arthur]

There is an often repeated mantra on this site...."all cagers are out to kill you!"......
I think this is more of a perception than a reality that is passed on from biker to biker like a juicy piece of gossip. I might well be leading a charmed life but the statement does not fit my experience. While I have had the odd "experience" or two with car drivers, given the number I encounter on any ride I have been pleasantly surprised at how many will pull to the left to let me pass without having to cross the centre line and occaisionally, in the twisties, almost come to a stop to let myself and others carry on through. I always acknowledge their actions and am constantly surprised at how many bikers do not. Like I said, maybe I am lucky. Either that or the sight of a leather clad blimp on a canary yellow bike is too much for some drivers to have in their rear view mirrors, or maybe they just need a good laugh.......("hey kids, take a look at this!!....)

Just a few points from the article mentioned in my last post in this thread;(please bear in mind this is a discussion Titled "Are Car Drivers The Problem?" and is in reference to the involvement of cagers in biker deaths i.e they are all out to kill you).
"Sussex Police Inspector Simon Labbett spent many years trying to understand why bikers die........His research tracked down what kinds of bike were involved in all 55 fatal accidents in Sussex between 2000 and 2003.....of the 55 fatalities, 37 occurred on sportbikes, 11 on sports tourers, two on commuters, one on a tourer and one on a retro.....and in more than 9 out of 10 of these deaths, rider error - usually excessive speed - was the main cause of the crash.............The reasons why car drivers take the rap are easy enough to understand even if they are flawed....most bike collisions happen in built up areas and those are indeed someone else's fault - a driver emerging from a side road and the familiar "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" story. However most fatal accidents happen in 60mph limits on open roads. Failure to see the bike (as a reason for the accident) goes down dramatically and rider error becomes much more significant....."
Food for thought for all of us, methinks.

I know what you mean - they aren't all out to kill you, but it pays to take the attitude that they are. It keeps you on toes, being aware of what is happening on all sides of you, at all times. I'm also surprised that a lot of riders don't have that attitude towards drivers who are nice enough to move a little to the left - ti me, it is just common courtesy. If a driver is nice enough to move a little to the left, it's only fair that I at least aknowledge the gesture by waving at him as I go past to show my appreciation

[stelartia]

Hope you learn something from my stupidity:
Tips: learn all you can, wear the best gear you can afford, treat all other motorists like they are out to get you and then, you certainly will shorten the odds and may never have an off. :)

:yes: :yes:

[Monkeyboy]

Pretend you are invisible then you'll be fine. On the first day I road my CBR600F a few years ago, I had 3 f*****s pull out on me en route to work and that was all within a 5 km trip!

I crashed my CBX550F2 in '88 when a girl on a bicycle did U-turn in front of me and I crashed the aforementioned CBR on the West Coast when I was going too quick for a tight corner, panicked, hit the front brake and leapt off when I could see a ravine looming up on me!

About 2 years ago a stupid b***h cut in front of me, I had the bike (a 01 R1) sideways with my left on the ground motocross style and skidding into the kerb on the opposite side of the road. I rode after her and had a few words. I have friends who are handy with ticket books and needless to say she was short of $150 by the end of the day.:Punk:

[Grub]

Is it true that everyone crashes?

Yes ...:sick: