I am sooooo slow

[kerryg]

I went out for a ride with a friend on Sunday, both of us on old slab sider GSXR750s. Try as I might I just couldn't stay with my mate. He wasn't pushing hard but he just tackled the corners so much more confidently than me, so I was playing catch up every time the road straightened out. I'm fine if I can see my way through a corner but I am under-confident entering corners I can't see the exit from. Also better on left-handed than right handed corners for some reason... :confused2

I envy the guys (many of whom post on this forum) who pull wheelies at the drop of a hat and have ground their footpegs down to a stub....how I wish to be able to do that...... :disapint:

I know there are some thingsthat are innate, that you have to be born with (like big cojones) but I'm equally sure that many skills can be taught.

I reckon there may be others like me who have come back to riding in middle age, who don't yet feel ready to buy a Harley :shutup: who want to be better sport riders, who have read Twist of the Wrist, who have done the odd track day, but are still under-confident and needs their skills sharpening up.

Anyone got any good ideas? Would some of the more skilled riders on Kiwi Biker be prepared to share their expertise? What about putting together a small group comprising some tutors and pupils and attending one of the test days at Pukekohe? Perhaps the pupils could contribute to the costs of the tutors?
Is there any merit in that idea or am I all alone in needing HELP?? :o

[Cajun]

veryone needs help from time to time.

personal i pull stoppies no worrys, but pulling wheel stands(mono) scare me

[Slim]

I'm pretty much the same as you when it comes to blind corners. I'm happier on open, sweepy, reasonably fast stuff than I am on tight stuff. I have fun in the tight stuff, but not at a very fast pace.

I found a couple of years ago that things seemed to be getting worse and the bike was due for a service which I get done in Wanganui (long story). I asked the guy to change the brake fluids & also check the fork fluids because I was getting an impression of softness from the front end and/or excessive dive.

What a difference! Boosted my confidence right back up there with super brakes and much reduced front end dive.

Advanced handling type courses may also be an option - try doing a search of the forums for "training" or "Course" and see what you come up with, because I know we've discussed it a couple of times in the recent past.

Your thoughts on a mini training day within a track day environment might be a good idea too.

[svs]

That's one of the reasons I started racing again. When you've got a track to play with, you can try out the things you read in books like 'Twist', and slowly bring up your confidence levels.

Also, paractice - practice - practice, like Mr Code says. I'm getting to the point where I want to practice locking the front wheel, then if it does happen in really life or in an emergency situation, then it won't feel too wierd.

It's all about not pushing too hard at once. If you do that, you'll end up in a ditch with less confidence than you had to start with. Getting on the track removes a lot of the distractions you have on the road - cage drivers, potholes, roadworks etc. and lets you concentrate on your riding. Then when you are back on the road, the riding is so much easier.

Everyone can always learn more. Most of us aren't born with some magical riding skills (those that are are just bastards :sneaky2: ). The only person who can really tell you what to do is yourself (shamelessly stolen from Keith Code)

[Jackrat]

Were you already familar with the roads you were on.
If not I don't think you have anything to worry about.
I also don't go rushing into blind corners I'm not familar with.
If I know the road I can stay with most people,if not I'm quite happy to have somebody else find the new pot hole or gravel for me.
You may be a better rider than you realise and your mate may just be a bigger risk taker.A good idea might be to shell out the bucks and take an advanced riding course.A bit of time in the company of a good riding instructor that can really explain things might be all you need.
Passrite do advanced rider training,I don't know much about their training but they support a couple of racers so they must know something.
PassRite driving academy
0800-727 77483

[Motoracer]

Just go on the rides with your mate more often. Make sure that the bike is running sweet and you are wearing the proper gear. Eventually you are bound to pick up the pace...

Speed is all about confidence and basically knowing exactly what to do. If you don't know what you are doing, you can still go fast but not for long...

If you aren't picking up the pace, ask your mate question on what he might be doing right that you aren't.

If you want, you should also come on the KB rides or track days, so you can get some pointers from some of the faster guys from here. If I am there, I'll definetly do what I can to help you out...

[Cajun]

i am gonna have to ride with you another day MR one day i am not wearing a backpack so you can help me with my riding

[FzerozeroT]

I'll follw Jackrat on this one, compared to who are you slow? if you are happy that the bike is in top nick and you're having fun then no worries, if you think that your underconfidence might put you at risk then do something about it. otherwise it's all just for fun :)

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I went out for a ride with a friend on Sunday, both of us on old slab sider GSXR750s. Try as I might I just couldn't stay with my mate. :o
Some advice. It may or may not work.
Number 1 rule Look at it and you will hit it. So if you see something on the road look at your escape root. Do not look at the piece of wood or what ever. Where you look you will go. Look at the clear side of your lane and look ahead.
So to apply this to the corners watch the vanishing point. Most people look at the road in front of the front tyre. You will ride square corners and never get the feeling of " that was great where is the next corner". Go in to a corner a touch slower than you think you can do the corner. For starters if the Singh said 55 kmh go in at 65 kmh. You will find in time you can double the speed in most cases but it takes practise. Better to learn to do it right than kill your self. Drop the 750 down a gear before you enter the corner and you will have power to drive through the corner. The gixxer will run well from 5-7 k up on the revcounter. Mind the power band as it comes in at 7500 rpms. Can give you problems in the wet or on ice. Wind the power on as you go round the corner but keep watching the vanishing point. that is the area where the corner disappears. When you see the road straighten up put the power on and change up. It is always better to have room to change your riding line than be going to fast and have to cross the line. You will dye in the future if you do that often enough. If you have your revs up and drop the power off you can change your line with out the brakes.
Look ahead. Did I mention look ahead!!!!!! the fact that you are alive means you are doing things right.
Try and ride with a group that will leave a rider with you till you pick up the pace. Follow people and ride their lines around corners. Give them room incase they need to change things.
Practise practise practise. Oh year and look ahead. Never look at the road in front of you. Scan the road surface from the bike to a good distance ahead but look ahead you will see anything you need to see. Never follow cars to close. All sorts of stuff appears from under them that you have not seen. Rocks holes dead road kill etc. Pass them and look ahead.
So in short. Watch the vanishing point.
If you look at it you will hit it
Ride at a pace you are happy with. Practise will get you up to speed.
Learn to control the power of your bike and use it when you have to.
Always have good tyres. They will save your life.
The Gixxer you speak of will corner like a demand when you are up to it. Get good rubber on it.
Good mates will work with you not try and kill you. Find someone else to ride with.
Let me know if this help. I could write for ever but better get back to work. Happy riding. The roads will be dry soon and that makes a big difference.

[Zed]

Just go on the rides with your mate more often. Make sure that the bike is running sweet and you are wearing the proper gear. Eventually you are bound to pick up the pace...

Speed is all about confidence and basically knowing exactly what to do. If you don't know what you are doing, you can still go fast but not for long...

If you aren't picking up the pace, ask your mate question on what he might be doing right that you aren't.

If you want, you should also come on the KB rides or track days, so you can get some pointers from some of the faster guys from here. If I am there, I'll definetly do what I can to help you out...
What MR said...riding alongside higher skilled riders has immensely helped me over the years, and the more your skills improve the more enjoyable the ride gets! :msn-wink:


Zed

[Slim]

Just another thought:

Sometimes I go out on a couple of local roads I'm still struggling with, but I'll focus completely on getting through it smoothly rather than quickly. I think one of the "tricks" of track training is a session fairly early on in the day of lapping the track in a certain gear/s but being forbidden to use the brakes.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Consistent and smooth lines I think are key to feeling confident (assuming you already have a bike that is mechanically sound without shit tyres). You dont need to practice these fast, just go slow and try a late apex, an early apex, a faster entry, a slower entry, power on in the corners, power off in the corners, trailing brake, touching the front brake etc etc. Now some of these techniques are probably downright dangerous, but if you do then *slowly*, you will have lots of room for error, even error that you induce like an entry too fast. Even at a slow speed you should be able to tell which is the better option, and once you have sorted out which is most comfortable in terms of lines and technique then you can go back up to your normal speed or faster and try to do it consistently.

[VivaVee]

If I was you I would take credit for riding in a style that has kept you safe and sound. I ride like my granny drove as a colleague (jrandom) on this forum would attest to. I wear the best protection I could find that fits and I only have scars from road racing ( human powered two wheelers ). But better skills are always useful.

[vifferman]

Yeah, looking through the corner is very important.

Something no-one's mentioned yet is the condition and setup of your bike. The tyres can make a BIG difference to your cornering confidence, affecting how the bike feels, how quickly it tips in, the stability, etc etc. The same goes for the suspension setup. I had a lot less confidence on the VTR when it was equipped with worn Pirelli rubber than I do now it's got good tyres, and the suspension was set up all wrong when I bought it, even for the previous owner who was much smaller than me. It was set up with too much preload and damping, and had way too little air in the tyres, perhaps under the mistaken impression that because racers set their bikes up with low tyre pressure and everything wound up tight it would make it handle like a race bike. WRONG! It handled like crap, being twitchy, having crap feedback, and squirming around.

Similarly, my previous bike (VFR) gave me little confidence when I bought it, as it was equipped with Shinko Podium tyres, which didn't feel right, so I couldn't push it in the corners. Once I had good tyres on it (the Bridgestone 012F/020R combo was brilliant), and quickened the sterring up a bit by dropping the forks through the triple clamps and reversing the eccentric on the rear wheel, it was much better.

Some of it is just experience, and the more riding you do, the greater the variety of roads, the more comfortable you will feel. Some of that comes from knowing the limits of you/your bike. Apparently that racing god Rossi fell off A LOT when he started racing, crashing in nearly every race. It took a little while for him to find out what the limits were, and what signals the bike was giving when at the limits. It also helps if you know what to do when required, f'rinstance if the corner tightens up on you: do you panic and run off the road, or is there more lean available? How do you get more lean in a hurry?

The bottom line has to be that you are comfortable and ride at YOUR pace, and not someone else's, and that the pace is appropriate for not just you but also for the conditions.

[jrandom]

If I was you I would take credit for riding in a style that has kept you safe and sound. I ride like my granny drove as a colleague (jrandom) on this forum would attest to. I wear the best protection I could find that fits and I only have scars from road racing ( human powered two wheelers ). But better skills are always useful.

Git yo ass over to the 'new users' forum and post an intro thread you reclusive git. :bleh:

[kerryg]

Thanks everyone for a lot of really good input.

[White trash]

A neat trick I use when riding unfarmiliar roads, and goes back to Gixxer's post.

Look for the vannishing point. If it's getting closer to you, the corner tightens. If it's getting further away, the corner opens.

Track days will not help with blind corners as you're covering the same ground repeatedly and bugger all turns on a track are blind to begin with.

Since using this aproach, I've never had a problem on an unfamiliar blind road.

Happy riding. :ride:

[750Y]

I could write for ever....

don't stop now man I was really enjoying that thread, Made a lot of sense to me.

[DEATH_INC.]

Just a little extra on the vanishing point thing,I try not to actually focus on anything,just look at the whole picture,like you're looking at the telly.And work on your lines,body position and smoothness,these are important,with these mastered speed will come on it's own :first:

[Hoon]

Yep lots of good info. Heres a few things that haven't been mentioned or need reinforcing. I don't claim to be proficient at any of them. A lot of these are still works in progress for me too!

Prepare yourself mentally
Fear of the unknown is your biggest barrier so ask as many questions as you can to know more about these unknowns. Focus on things that encourage you while pushing your fears aside. Also try to overcome your fears with reason (i.e "he can do it and his bike is crap!") then get out there and do it.

Have confidence in your machinery
To overcome the fear of locking up the brakes or leaning over too far you need to find yourself a nice big clean car park. Do some emergency brake drills i.e. accelerate in a straight line then try lock up the front brakes until you've had enough.
Then do some tight circles in 2nd gear (large roundabout size) slowly increasing speed until you get your knee down. Assuming you have good tyres, once you reach the limit it'll start sliding a little but I doubt you'll get that far over yet.

You will find that you can brake and lean way further than you thought!!

Get all your braking done before the corner
When you approach a corner get all your braking done BEFORE you tip the bike in. If once you get into the corner you realise you've braked too much, give yourself a slapping for being a wuss and brake a little less next time. But if you kept the brake hand spastic under control give yourself a pat on the back instead!! As you build up confidence you will build up entry speed but don't rush it.

During the corner slowly accelerate through the turn
Like Keith says, the suspension works best when you are on the gas. This means try to avoid coasting through the turn with the throttle closed/hovering over the front brake as it makes the front heavy which tries to run wide and makes you think you are going too fast when actually you are not going fast enough.

Look as far through the turn as possible
During the turn, focus on the road as far ahead as you can see, not the spot just in front of you. The further ahead you look the less "overwhelmed by the speed" you will be and more likely you'll want to speed up to that distant point instead of backing off because the road in front of your tyre is approaching faster than you can process it.

Try to be smooth
By smooth I mean "upset the suspension as little as possible". Try to avoid sudden brake/throttle movements which make the front jump up or down. Roll off and on instead and try to overlap your brake/gas transitions to make them as smooth as possible. This is not too essential as its only the difference between say a 95% and 100% rider but since you are learning you might as well learn it now instead of having to undo bad habits later.

[Two Smoker]

i am gonna have to ride with you another day MR one day i am not wearing a backpack so you can help me with my riding
Sweet i get 3 gixxer tail lights too follow if you and Death come hehehe

[FROSTY]

one point worth mentioning is that your mate might be a little bit more prepared to take risks that you are.
There might be nothing at all wrong with your riding. The survival instinct might just be stronger in you than in him.
and despite my own at times suicidal habits there aint nothing wrong with a survival instinct

[Cajun]

more like i be following an rg150 by the way i have heard it. but my gixxer has the sexyest tail tho dc:<

[Stinkwheeler]

Failing all of this you could just go for the old sugar in the fuel tank trick :whistle:

[hondav2]

Everyone rides the way they want to so stick to what you enjoy, My VTR had shit tyres when I bought it and after getting good ones it was a different bike. Gave me confidance to power it thru corners with out the back end moving around. Next was to get the susp set up to suit my weight. get someone who knows what there doing and its like riding on rails. Wear the right gear. Leather pants give a lot better grip between your ars and the seat . I find cordura riding gear very slippery and dosent give confidance . Then practice ,Practice ,Practice especially on a stretch of road u ride a lot and it will all come together. Cheers Toddy