WSB is about to get way more interesting

[ArcherWC]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/17december06_wsbnew.htm

[Squeak the Rat]

Makes sense, especially with the continous moving target of the MotoGP. How many cc's in 2008 again? :shrug:

Anything to improve competition and the number of factories competing can only be a good thing! Wooohooo :wari:

[Hellraiser]

Every competition needs someone to finish last, i find it fitting that it will be Aprilia.

[imdying]

Eh what? They (Ducati) can't build a competitive bike inside the rules, so they want to have the rules changed to suit them?

[bistard]

They "Ducati" have always done that,the Championship as we know it,is owned by an Italian company,The Flamigni Group & as long as they own it they will dictate the rules to suit!!

[madandy]

MotoGP machine specs are tightly controlled. WSB aint W1LSB so as long as the competing machinery is homologated under regular guidelines IE: based on production engine sizes and models, I dont have an issue with 1100cc twins sharing the track with 1L fours. It was tough when the I4's were restricted to 750cc against the 1L twins but the litre I4's can make some pretty huge grunt these days and the extra displacement the twins may be allowed may encourage more technological advancement from the I4 manufacturers...
Bah what am I saying...The eyeties owns WSB

[manyrevs]

==== Edited - See below...

[manyrevs]

"WSB is about to get way more interesting"
-----------------------------------------

That is the overstatement of the current year. Get rid of the cheaterpack Ducs and then maybe we'll have an intersting series...

What gets to me is how all the Japanese s'bikes produce about 10 - 15% more HP than their street counterparts while the Ducs produce something like 35 - 40% more and there is nothing on the street which can be remotely linked to a Duc on the track. How in gods name do they get away with that?

Anyway, just what formula are WSB's...??? Surely they can't have one, with all the rule changes and bending by the Red camp... It really is a nonsense... I have a thorough disliking for those red bikes because of the WSB series...

The Supersports 600 series is way more intersting as far as competition goes. The racing is way way more fierce than the Troy Bayliss benefit series...

[MazTLR]

Here's the Aprilia engine. http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/Various/EICMA_2006/Aprilia_EICMA_2006-022_r.jpg

[Paul in NZ]

Why? Are naked Dolly Parton clones going to race manx Nortons over cobbled streets in the rain?

[imdying]

Never in the history of motorsport have dissimilar engine configurations ever been able to race in parity. Turbos vs V8s in touring cars, V8/V10/V12 in F1, 750 4 vs 1000 twin in WSB, etc etc etc etc. It can't be done. Capacity and a cap on the number of cylinders in the only logical conclusion... why do they keep going back to this cylinder size disparity? History has proven this to be a dead end again and again. If a four is the way to win, build a four... Ducati well have it in them, of that there is no doubt. If a twin is slower around a track, don't build race bikes around them....

[manyrevs]

Never in the history of motorsport have dissimilar engine configurations ever been able to race in parity. Turbos vs V8s in touring cars, V8/V10/V12 in F1, 750 4 vs 1000 twin in WSB, etc etc etc etc. It can't be done. Capacity and a cap on the number of cylinders in the only logical conclusion... why do they keep going back to this cylinder size disparity? History has proven this to be a dead end again and again. If a four is the way to win, build a four... Ducati well have it in them, of that there is no doubt. If a twin is slower around a track, don't build race bikes around them....

Too bloody right....

If you can't keep up according to the rules then either change your bike or *&^%## off out of it...

[sAsLEX]

If a twin is slower around a track, don't build race bikes around them....

I dont know if they are destined to be.

They run big bang configs on the fours where they can in order to get power pulses the same as the V twins so they have an inherent advantage in grip exiting corners....

[imdying]

I dont know if they are destined to be.

They run big bang configs on the fours where they can in order to get power pulses the same as the V twins so they have an inherent advantage in grip exiting corners....I don't watch WSB so I'm not sure what the state of play is. They're running 1000cc twins and fours at the moment? I assume if Ducati are having a cry, they're not winning? I wonder if valve area is as or more important that firing configuration...

[manyrevs]

Duc are winning, not because they are faster/better etc,, but because they are governed by another set of rules than are the inline fours. In short, they are allowed to modify the sh*t out of their bikes while Hon, Yam, Kaw, Suz's are not allowed to do virtually anything. Duc, however are still moaning that they are disadvantaged in every way...

Yeah, that seems fair - doesn't it...

God damned moaning sleezy Ities...

[imdying]

because they are governed by another set of rules than are the inline fours. In short, they are allowed to modify the sh*t out of their bikes while Hon, Yam, Kaw, Suz's are not allowed to do virtually anything.Really? They're winning and still wanting a bigger advantage? WTF?

Can you cite some examples of differences in the rules between Dukes and everyone else? (or is it twins and fours?)

[onearmedbandit]

Haven't read that particular article, but I do remember some honcho in Ducati saying the reason they want to up the cc limit is to make their road bikes more comparable (in hp) to the il4's.

[sAsLEX]

Haven't read that particular article, but I do remember some honcho in Ducati saying the reason they want to up the cc limit is to make their road bikes more comparable (in hp) to the il4's.

I dont think the numbers play in to most peoples decision to purchase the Italian mark.

Who cares if steve has the latest greatest GSXRCBRRRZXR as they are common and lack what people look for in an Italian bike, the fact that the Japs have 15 more HP?? Who gives two tosses as HP don't matter much on the street.

[onearmedbandit]

Wait a minute, I'll find the phone number for Ducati's marketing department and you can ring them and let them off the hook. It'll save them shit loads when they realise this. Oh my won't they feel the fool!

[imdying]

I dont think the numbers play in to most peoples decision to purchase the Italian mark.The Italian what?


Who cares if steve has the latest greatest GSXRCBRRRZXR as they are common and lack what people look for in an Italian bike, the fact that the Japs have 15 more HP?? Who gives two tosses as HP don't matter much on the street.That is purely conjecture. You have no way of knowing what makes people buy them, much less what proportion of people buy them based on looks/specs/because they're Italian/etc. We do however know, that for a certain percentage of the bike buying population, the specs do matter.

[Paulus]

I think the problem for Ducati is that they are having to run full works engines (which are very expensive to build and maintain) against not so heavily modified 4s (much cheaper). They are also getting their butts kicked in the litre bike shootouts in the magazines etc and want to be more competitive on HP with the 4s. Can't help wondering why they don't just release a 4 though. I can't see the WSB rules ever being changed to a point where the Ducati isn't most likely to win.

[imdying]

I'm young and have never owned a Duke, but I'm guessing the whole build a four thing is a heritage thing? Having said that, I'd buy a four that looked like the 1098, no problem at all... it's not like they're going to build a crap one is it :D

[sAsLEX]

I think the problem for Ducati is that they are having to run full works engines (which are very expensive to build and maintain) against not so heavily modified 4s (much cheaper). They are also getting their butts kicked in the litre bike shootouts in the magazines etc and want to be more competitive on HP with the 4s. Can't help wondering why they don't just release a 4 though. I can't see the WSB rules ever being changed to a point where the Ducati isn't most likely to win.

Aprilia FActory just won the Masterbike comp so theres fans of the twins out there.

"There's the V-4 thing: there's just something about it that inline 4s don't have, and V-twins have too much of."
– Murray Duncan

But oh well more V4s on this earth aint a bad thing

[gav]

Why has this thread about Racing been moved to this forum?

The Ducatis are allowed to tune their engines to alot higher extent to race, its in the rules and no, Ducati didnt write them. Ducati would like to build a 1200cc bike that can run under the same rules a sthe four cylinder bikes. You noticed how few privateer teams are running Ducatis? The cost has gotten very high to keep the Ducatis up to speed.
Do you really want a format of all 4 cylinder 1000cc bikes? You'd buy a 4 cyl Ducati that looks like the 1098? Seen it beside a CBR1000RR, virtually identical profile (apart from the SSA, and chances are the 1198 wont have that either)
Do you think a twin and a four can compete evenly for the same size cc engine?
Nah, never happen.

[WINJA]

I Didnt Read All That But I Hope That Stupid 1 Tyre Manufacturer Rule Has Changed

[Paulus]

Why has this thread about Racing been moved to this forum?

The Ducatis are allowed to tune their engines to alot higher extent to race, its in the rules and no, Ducati didnt write them. Ducati would like to build a 1200cc bike that can run under the same rules a sthe four cylinder bikes. You noticed how few privateer teams are running Ducatis? The cost has gotten very high to keep the Ducatis up to speed.
Do you really want a format of all 4 cylinder 1000cc bikes? You'd buy a 4 cyl Ducati that looks like the 1098? Seen it beside a CBR1000RR, virtually identical profile (apart from the SSA, and chances are the 1198 wont have that either)
Do you think a twin and a four can compete evenly for the same size cc engine?
Nah, never happen.

For a large number of years the 4s weren't really competitive. Even Honda gave up and admitted under the rules a twin had too much advantage (hence the SP1). A few years back it was effectively World Super Ducati racing. Ducati may not write the rules but they seem to have a habit of favouring them.

With the same size engine the twin would be quicker on a tight technical circuit and the 4 would be faster on a more open flowing circuit. It might balance out (of course this could be complete rubbish).

[imdying]

Ducati would like to build a 1200cc bike that can run under the same rules a sthe four cylinder bikes. You noticed how few privateer teams are running Ducatis? The cost has gotten very high to keep the Ducatis up to speed.Now that makes a lot more sense. Still walking a fine line having one rule for one and one rule for another though.

[Cajun]

Like others have said the rules fall to the side of ducati, why do you think everyone pretty much pulled out of superbikes a few years ago, i think it was 2003 or 2002, there where really no factory Japanese teams racing. Due to the rules. (also making them use one brand tyre rule) did not help. Since many brands are tied with tyre dealers for all there racing.

But more teams in the wsb is a good thing, i believe there should have some sorta semi budget on amount that can be done, eg ducati having to be rebuild every 1 or 2 races, where sp1, i think went thru two engines in a whole year.

[Jinx3d]

WsB without a ducati vee twin would be a great loss, like em or hate em.

WRC runs all sorts of cars, they just limit horsepower, why not do the same with bikes if you want them to race together. If you had a choice between the factories working on more horsepower or better handling - which would you choose?

The owners of WSB would have to be crazy to get rid of ducati, wsb has a massive fan base in italy. Who's gonna stop watching if honda doesnt turn up?

Nobody.

[Coyote]

Time to save up for that Aprilia V4. It's probably going to be the price of an MV isn't it?

[Paulus]

WsB without a ducati vee twin would be a great loss, like em or hate em.

WRC runs all sorts of cars, they just limit horsepower, why not do the same with bikes if you want them to race together. If you had a choice between the factories working on more horsepower or better handling - which would you choose?

The owners of WSB would have to be crazy to get rid of ducati, wsb has a massive fan base in italy. Who's gonna stop watching if honda doesnt turn up?

Nobody.

I disagree. A whole bunch of us stopped watching when the 4s stopped showing up. We started again a couple of years ago. If Ducati is convinced that the best format for a 1000cc sportsbike is a twin then let them prove that under the same rules as everyone else. On some tracks I'd wager they'll be right.

[imdying]

I disagree. A whole bunch of us stopped watching when the 4s stopped showing up. We started again a couple of years ago. If Ducati is convinced that the best format for a 1000cc sportsbike is a twin then let them prove that under the same rules as everyone else. On some tracks I'd wager they'll be right.
I agree. When I was at school I had WSB posters all over my walls. Now, WSB, what's that? That's not to say it isn't worth watching now... but since the time you describe above, who can be bothered getting back into it. I dare say MotoGP are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Jinx3d]

Motogp??
How can people complain SBK is boring since the same guy wins all the time?

I predict a lot of people watching motogp to see who will emerge, but 800cc

Kinda odd aint it?

I like the 1 tyre rule, 2005 season of smoking tyres was awesome to watch!!!

The reason people dont watch SBK any more is because its never on tv, or the papers or even the news. Who cares, I just buy the end of season DVD and watch 3 straqight hours of it.

Cool!

btw: yeah, I too remiss about the glory days, 1994 diesel jeans - I was there, riding my Kawa Z1000 and my mullet.

:-) LOL!

[Paulus]

Motogp??
How can people complain SBK is boring since the same guy wins all the time?

I predict a lot of people watching motogp to see who will emerge, but 800cc

Kinda odd aint it?

I like the 1 tyre rule, 2005 season of smoking tyres was awesome to watch!!!

The reason people dont watch SBK any more is because its never on tv, or the papers or even the news. Who cares, I just buy the end of season DVD and watch 3 straqight hours of it.

Cool!

btw: yeah, I too remiss about the glory days, 1994 diesel jeans - I was there, riding my Kawa Z1000 and my mullet.

:-) LOL!


It's on Sky Sports.

[Jinx3d]

150 channels of crap WITH adverts

$600 a year sound pretty steep to watch 3 hours of motorcycles.

Sky takes it up the arse.

[k14]

150 channels of crap WITH adverts

$600 a year sound pretty steep to watch 3 hours of motorcycles.

Sky takes it up the arse.
Bit more than 3 hours. 3 hours of racing per meeting, and there's about 12 a year. But thats assuming the only reason you get it is to watch bike racing.