Hmmmm?

[James Deuce]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/triumph-motorcycles/triumph-675/

And no mention of the small but growing number of 675s eating their crank because they run dry of oil before the oil warning light comes on.

[Crasherfromwayback]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/triumph-motorcycles/triumph-675/

And no mention of the small but growing number of 675s eating their crank because they run dry of oil before the oil warning light comes on.


Jim...I can honestly say I've not heard of that happening...not here with ours anyway. And Triumph in my experience are well rapidly onto us if there's a common problem surfacing with recalls and new bits to replace the 'problem' bits with.
They just knew when they re-entered the market place they'd have to be as good, if not better reliability and warranty wise, as the best there is.
And I truly believe they are.:sunny:

[NighthawkNZ]

first time i heard of that ever happening...

[James Deuce]

You guys haven't read the last two Bike magazines then? Their long termer shat itself in the way described and they have discussed the same problem with a couple of readers. Anecdotal at the moment, but Bike are actively seeking stats and an explanation. And not being given either.

[Grahameeboy]

You guys haven't read the last two Bike magazines then? Their long termer shat itself in the way described and they have discussed the same problem with a couple of readers. Anecdotal at the moment, but Bike are actively seeking stats and an explanation. And not being given either.




Jim what worries me is that you posted this at midnight..............

Guess it depends on bike usage. UK bike mags tend to give bike a hard time....no doubt this story will unroll itself.....

[James Deuce]

So do most NZ Sprotsbike riders. 800mls per 1000 miles is a touch excessive, and this is from people who haven't had failures but actually check oil levels, unlike the Bike guys.

[Grahameeboy]

So do most NZ Sprotsbike riders. 800mls per 1000 miles is a touch excessive, and this is from people who haven't had failures but actually check oil levels, unlike the Bike guys.


Oh not good..........Bonnerville Days all over again??.....maybe it is a 2 stroke disguised as a 4?

[Edbear]

I do agree that rate if oil use is rather high, but there are so many variables with engines and in particular how it was "run-in".

Remember the uproar over the 6 litre Commodores excessive oil use? Some people had no problems, others had seemingly endless trouble and swore never to buy Holden again.

I'm sure Triumph will be on to it, as they can't afford bad publicity. They are still in the "proving themselves" period - though they have done amazingly well thus far and deserve kudos, the marque is still a long way from the Jappas for unquestioned quality and reliability. There are still some reservations there.

[Motig]

Yes, saw that article Jim. Triumph do seem to be having the odd quality problem (brakes disappearing, quality of parts etc) I also see on the Motorcycle USA site that the Bonnevilles are having a problem with their spoked wheels puncturing, sometimes at high speed, Triumph say its not their problem but its under investigation by authorities as its happening too often. Ahh the good old days ay!

[Paul in NZ]

Oh FFS

The old triumphs were NOT that bad taken in the context of the era in which they were made. Many people enjoyed countless miles of fun and enjoyment - sure they were not Hondas but so what?

EVERY maker of any complicated piece of kit (like a motorcycle) will have some kind of issue like this at some stage or other.

Its what they DO about it that makes the difference..

[nudemetalz]

Well said, Paul !!

[Motig]

Calm down Paul:dodge:

[Ixion]

The Meridan Triumph was a pretty reliable beast, even by modern standards. No history of anything nasty on the unit models. Only recurring issue I remember is blowing the zener diode in the charging circuit.

The old preunits used to have a mild rep for blowing head gaskets on the 8 stud iron head, which was cured on the alloy head. And they (the pre unit jobs) broke primary chains if you were unlucky. Bear in mind, this is accumulated history of a period of 40 years. How many Jap designs have been around for even a tenth of that period?

But all in all a unit Triumph was a solid beast. If unbodgered and unbutchered. In fact, their reliability is probably what gave them a bad rep. They kept on going despite suffering at the hands of the mechanically inept, where a Jap bike would have hand grenaded. Go take a look at Trademe. How many 30 and 40 year old Jap bikes are there for sale ? Now go count up the number of 1960s and 1970 Triumphs. Well ?

[Paul in NZ]

Calm down Paul:dodge:


I am calm, sorry, I didn't mean to come across all agro. I do feel sorry for the guys at the new Triumph factory though. "Here we go again" "Not quite as good as a Honda" mentality people have when in fact Honda and others have dropped some monster clangers over the years.

Oh well - Times move on....

Ixion - I'm pretty sure the cast iron headed Triumphs were some of the most reliable engines they made. All the 5T's and 6T's I've had never ever let me down on the road PERIOD. They usually had lower compression ratios to cope with the shite petrol and it was the first alloy 'Delta' heads on the preunits (8 stud) that gave problems. Mainly because they went on the 'sports' models like the T110 which used the higher spec'd cams / compression etc. They very often cracked, blew gaskets etc and are now pretty rare. The 60's unit motors had the 9 stud top end (10 stud on the T140's) which was relatively trouble free except like all that stuff back then, they never thought we would still be riding the things now and to be fair, a lot of heads got ruined by people planing them 'flat' when really the issue was they didn't set up the seal squish on the pushrod tubes (several different designs) and were warping them by bolting them down. I've seen people straighten the heads by bolting them to a thick steel plate and reheating them..

Every issue I've had with the tritanic this time around is due to inferiour modern parts not being up to the standards the factory set.

Sad

[bistard]

Jim...I can honestly say I've not heard of that happening...not here with ours anyway. And Triumph in my experience are well rapidly onto us if there's a common problem surfacing with recalls and new bits to replace the 'problem' bits with.
They just knew when they re-entered the market place they'd have to be as good, if not better reliability and warranty wise, as the best there is.
And I truly believe they are.:sunny:

Spoken like a true salesman
Go Pete!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Spoken like a true salesman
Go Pete!!

Go?? Too late mate...I've gone!:scooter:

[Kickaha]

And no mention of the small but growing number of 675s eating their crank because they run dry of oil before the oil warning light comes on.


What of mileage is this happening at? there's two in Christchurch that have been racing since they were released with out any problems

[scracha]

bike would have hand grenaded. Go take a look at Trademe. How many 30 and 40 year old Jap bikes are there for sale ? Now go count up the number of 1960s and 1970 Triumphs. Well ?

Just out of interest....how many people had big Jap bikes in New Zealand in the 1960's compared to the number running about on big Brit bikes?

[Lou Girardin]

The 675's do tend to sip a bit of oil, but one of the retards featured in 'Bike" didn't check the oil between services. That's 6,000 km. I hope Triumph tell him to make love elsewhere.

[James Deuce]

What of mileage is this happening at? there's two in Christchurch that have been racing since they were released with out any problems

Check the oil and you're OK, provided you have the nouse to top up as well as check.

The "retard" from Bike is not the only one caught out because the oil light doesn't come on until after the engine is toast.

[Lou Girardin]

Check the oil and you're OK, provided you have the nouse to top up as well as check.

The "retard" from Bike is not the only one caught out because the oil light doesn't come on until after the engine is toast.

Sorry to tell you this, but a low oil level light is not going to save your engine when it's being used hard.
The horse will have already bolted.

[Fatjim]

Yeah but having a oil warning light that comes on when the bikes already shat it's big end bearings is like having a pacemaker that takes 4 minutes to kick in.

Too fukin late!

[Fatjim]

Calm down Paul:dodge:
Don't worry mate, Paul was brought up in a time when a broken record was really a broken record.

[Ixion]

Just out of interest....how many people had big Jap bikes in New Zealand in the 1960's compared to the number running about on big Brit bikes?

Big Jap bikes in the 60s. None that I recall. Depends on your definition of big I guess. Honda CB450 (rare) ; Suzuki T500: Kawaa 500; Megura, rare as. . But heaps of smaller ones. In that era the Jap two strokes redeined the definition.

[Motu]

Most bikes I've ever ridden or owned never had an oil light,and even though some have burned and leaked oil at a considerable rate,I've never managed to sieze an engine.Low oil presure lights are more often used on cars - and when the light comes on your engine has just destroyed itself.Why should a motorcycle be any different.

However,I have siezed a VW engine....When fitting a 1300 into my 1958 Kombi I wanted to fit my big tacho,but couldn't be bothered running a wire all the way to the back for the coil pickup.So I used the oil pressure light wire.And as I am a favorite nephew of Murphy the obvious final result happened on a saturday night,on the corner of Wellesley St and Queen St.I parked it half on the footpath and walked away.

To find a Jap bike with the longlivety of the Triumph twin you have have to pick the Yamaha SX650.Come down and take a look at my XS650 motor if you want to see what happens when morons work on bikes.

[NighthawkNZ]

You guys haven't read the last two Bike magazines then? Their long termer shat itself in the way described and they have discussed the same problem with a couple of readers. Anecdotal at the moment, but Bike are actively seeking stats and an explanation. And not being given either.




Nope have read them... hmmmm interesting... luckily I not own one :)

[Bonez]

To find a Jap bike with the longlivety of the Triumph twin you have have to pick the Yamaha SX650.Ok I'll bite. I have a garage with one 1976 jap bike(30 yo), a 78 jap bike, (28 yo) a 81 jap bike (24 yo), a 86 jap bike (20 yo) and an 88 jap bike, all running. Now I'm no mechanic. Neighbours mate buys a Triumph 650. Fucked in the first week he owned it. Had it for 3 months. Even had so called "experts " try to sort it. 3 sets of pistons later he got so pissed off he flogged it off and got an early xv1000(the first of them) The xv is still running as sweet as the day he bought it 6 months ago.

Another example. Chap restores a 500 trumpy, looks fantastic. Takes it to the cold kiwi. Had to trailer it home becease of a broken crank. Yes there's a great aftermarket spare setup for the old girls. As time goes by the same is happening for popular jap models. The CB750k for example you can by just about any part conceivable new. There are a lot more old Jap bike in curculation than some think. A guy at work has a '81 GSX1100 and uses it quite regularly.

I have to ask this question. Why are folk getting rid of these all these Triumuph twins if there's such a good spares back up?

Maybe the reason there's not so many old Jappers on Trademe is that they are actually being ridden ;) Met a chap getting a wof for his dohc cb750 (1980/1 model by the looks of the dash) on Thursday which is testiment to this. An original milage bike,no engine work done, that hadn't been that well looked after. A gent who is getting back into bikes and wanted someting cheap and reliable to get going on ..........

Forgot to mention. The last time I visited the local Suzuki dealership I could still buy new bits for my GSX750EX, at a cost obviously and ex Japan. Quite surprised really. I'm sure I've mentioned this outfit before too- http://www.oldbikebarn.com/
There are many others about as well that support these bikes and make a good living out it. Google is your freind.

[Motu]

We are still talking different eras,'60's British bikes and late '70's early '80's Jap bikes.I am a mechanic,and I can assure you 90% of British bike problems were owner inflicted....even on my own British bikes.But I didn't blame the bike,I knew where the problem lied.Japanese bikes just never got owner ''involvment'' like British bikes did,a little too complicated for the hammer and screwdriver brigade.

Like those who like to poke fun at Harleys,most of the riders of Japanese bikes who like to make fun of British bike oil leaks have never owned or ridden one....that would spoil the fun.

[onearmedbandit]

Q: Know why the British don't make computers?
A: They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil!

[Ixion]

,,.Come down and take a look at my XS650 motor if you want to see what happens when morons work on bikes.

Woz wrong wiv yer motor, then ? Yer didn't fit the pistons upside down again did yer?

BTB, I reckon one of the best oil pressure indicaters was the old pre unit Triumph plunger thingy in the timing case. Popped out under pressure, y could easy see it, even feel it in the dark.

Point was, I fink, not to say the Japs woz bad. But that the Triumphs were not as bad as some crack on.

Most troubles with the old Brits were down to the uncertainty of metallurgy in the day. Bear in mind we're talking 60 year old designs here. They just didn't have the understanding of the metallurgy , or the materials back then. Give those old guys modern steel and alloys and they've have been on a roll.

[Bonez]

Sorry to tell you this, but a low oil level light is not going to save your engine when it's being used hard.
The horse will have already bolted.Hmmm one would have though there would be enough residue oil in the engine to shut it down with out to much drama. Look at all those wee jappers that get trashed infront a the "bikie" crowd and still run for minutes on full throttle without seizing.

[Ixion]

Q: Know why the British don't make computers?
A: They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil!

Don't bet on that. I've worked with computers that leaked oil . And leaked water. And one that I had to grease, with a grease gun, each month.

[onearmedbandit]

Just how old are you Ixion?????

[Bonez]

Q: Know why the British don't make computers?
A: They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil!To be fair 3 of my bikes leak oil. The CX seems to have a total loss oil system much like gas turbines. Pitty it doesn't have the performance. This intangable thing called character makes up for that I guess.

[Bonez]

Japanese bikes just never got owner ''involvment'' like British bikes did,a little too complicated for the hammer and screwdriver brigade.
I'm sure there are a few of us here that could argue that point till the cows come home. Another generalisation.

[Bonez]

Most troubles with the old Brits were down to the uncertainty of metallurgy in the day. Bear in mind we're talking 60 year old designs here. They just didn't have the understanding of the metallurgy , or the materials back then. Give those old guys modern steel and alloys and they've have been on a roll.Yes, but other designs had been developed over that period, but the powers to be were too tight to ramp up new tooling for these designs.

[Motu]

Story about Triumph oil leaks....

I've never owned a Triumph,but I've owned bikes with Triumph motors...my next bike will be a Triumph without a Triumph motor.My Triton was built by someone well known at the time,he just threw it together out of some old parts,and always laughed about the bike when he saw me.But it had been fully rebuilt when I had it,the '61 T110 motor had late model Bonnie cams,pistons etc,pretty normal practice.It didn't leak a lot of oil,but I was constantly plugging leaks.We'll come back to this.

When I built the T100C motor for my Rickman I used a lot of late model Daytona parts,it was practicaly a Daytona in early cases....and it had a few leaks.You expect that from Triumphs though eh? I had a lot of unit 500 parts as they were easy to collect,no one wanted the girls bike.One day a mate and I were playing around with his old 3TA,actually a Tiger 90,and we were putting late model parts into it....including some Daytona cams.And then we found something we hadn't noticed before,and it explained my oil leaks....and gave us a good laugh.

Up until the late '60s Triumphs had a timed breather - the breather opened on the downstroke of the pistons,closed on the upstroke...common to a lot of engines back then.The inlet cam was hollow and a slot in one end drove a slotted breather disc,the breather just discharged on the road...also common practice and fuel for leaky British bike stories.In the late '60's the breathing system was upgraded - the drive side oilseal was removed and the engine breathed into the primary chaincase,a baffled outlet led to a hose which went over the rear guard...still no closed systems back then.This was a good idea,and meant you didn't have to worry about primary case oil level,and the breather didn't drip on the ground.And the inlet camshaft was now solid....ooops.

I was using solid camshafts with a timed breather - no wonder I had oil leaks! So I converted my old cases to the modern breather system and my leaks disapeared.I suspect this is what happened on my Triton too,but I had sold it by then.This is the sort of ignorance that fueled the leaky Triumph stories - but it was fun and we learnt a lot.I'm sure if modern bikes ran breathers straight onto the road we would have stories about leaky GSXR's.Tiz called progess,and it's good to be involved in the progression.

[Ixion]

Some of the Brits did leak a bit, and all leaked enough to get grubby with oil mist over a few thousand miles.

The gearbox to primary drive case seal on preunits was always a bugger, a sliding joint, very hard to stop leaks. And the ones with tin primary cases,they distorted very easily.

And a lot of joints and such didn't have oil rings or oil seals as a modern design would. Cos why, cos o rings and oil seals hadn't been invented when they were designed. So the designers had to work with felt packings and copper or fibre washers.

[Bonez]

Some of the Brits did leak a bit, and all leaked enough to get grubby with oil mist over a few thousand miles.

The gearbox to primary drive case seal on preunits was always a bugger, a sliding joint, very hard to stop leaks. And the ones with tin primary cases,they distorted very easily.

And a lot of joints and such didn't have oil rings or oil seals as a modern design would. Cos why, cos o rings and oil seals hadn't been invented when they were designed. So the designers had to work with felt packings and copper or fibre washers.Breif history of o rings - http://inventors.about.com/od/ofamousinventions/a/O_Ring.htm
http://www.oringsusa.com/html/history_of_o-rings.html

[onearmedbandit]

Funny thing is I got that joke from a Triumph (cage) (http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Jokes.html) website.

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah but having a oil warning light that comes on when the bikes already shat it's big end bearings is like having a pacemaker that takes 4 minutes to kick in.

Too fukin late!

It's a low level light, and high engine speeds will overheat the remaining oil quickly enough to cause engine damage.

[Edbear]

It's a low level light, and high engine speeds will overheat the remaining oil quickly enough to cause engine damage.


That's why a pressure guage is better. The lights are known as the "Sorry, it's already busted!" lights!

My 'F' uses oil, not much, but not sure just how much. I always check the oil before each ride, anyway. Doesn't everyone? Surely any high-performance 4-stroke engine will use some oil! Even Ferrari's, etc. use oil due to the high state of tune and the high revs they pull.

[scracha]

Big Jap bikes in the 60s. None that I recall. Depends on your definition of big I guess. Honda CB450 (rare) ; Suzuki T500: Kawaa 500; Megura, rare as. . But heaps of smaller ones. In that era the Jap two strokes redeined the definition.

So maybe that's the reason there's more big brit bikes from the 60's on Tardme than big jap bikes :-)

As for the 70's...methinks you'll find more big bore 70's jap bikes than brit ones on tardme.

[scracha]

My 'F' uses oil, not much, but not sure just how much. I always check the oil before each ride, anyway. Doesn't everyone? Surely any high-performance

No. Would car manufacturers expect you to check your oil every time you drove? I don't think so. This is the 21st century and gawd dammit I expect to get on my bike and ride it and maybe check the oil every 2 or 3 thousand kay's just like in my car. In fact..that's what I've managed to do for the past 15 years riding without any problems (2 smokes excepted).

[Ixion]

But there's more Brit bikes of that era around in total , than Jap bikes in total. Despite more Japs being sold then. Which is why I said about the 60s Jap bikes redefining "big". Back then the decision was between a Brit 650 or a Jap 250 or 350. The Jap 250s and 350s competed with the Brit 500s and 650s. Just two totally differnet appraoches to bike design. Like the crusier vs sprotsbike thing now. I'm picking in 40 years time there'll be a lot more 2000s crusiers left surviving than sprotsbikes.

[Motu]

It's a low level light, and high engine speeds will overheat the remaining oil quickly enough to cause engine damage.

So the oil gets hot enough to break down? That's stinking hot even for supermarket oil. And the rider is unaware this is happening? But in this day and age the owner,or rider is never at fault....there is always some one else to blame.I've seen cars get so hot the oil has been rendered down to tar and blocked the pickup.The owners were surprised of course,but they knew they had overheated the car severely.....but the motors were undamaged.

There could be an issue with oil usage,I won't deny that - but someone rode the bikes to a standstill.The riders name wasn't Tulongalofa was it?

[Ixion]

I think that the motor would have to be very hot to cause oil breakdown. And are these not watercooled motors? Surely the coolant would be boiling long before then.

I've seen air cooled bike engines with cast iron heads glowing red. The oil stood up to it fine, and that was the lubrication technology of 30 years ago.

If it's a level indicator I suspect a more likely scenario is that the level falls to a point that is dangerous, but "get away with", with the bike vertical and level . But spirited riding, hard cornering and breaking, will cause the (small amount of) oil remaining to slosh back and forth all over the place. Sometimes the oil pump pickup will be exposed and suck air. Soon the oil will be whipped up to an aerated froth, and the efficiency of the pump much diminished. Just a few kilometres like this could be enough to cause damage on a plain bearing engine .

This was one reason why dry sumps used to be favoured on bikes - they are more resistant to changes of attitude.

[onearmedbandit]

I bet you're right too Ixion. Nature of the beasts.

[eliot-ness]

Just to put a few things straight from someone who bought his first Triumph in 1956 and had many more, mostly 650 Bonnevilles right up to 1974, plus a brief dalliance with a 2004 Bonneville. As Motu and Ixion pointed out most of the external oil came from the breather, especially so when they "invented" the crankcase powered chain oiler. The engine and gearbox were as oil tight as any other brand provided they hadn't been butchered by backyard mechanics. Reliability was beyond question. My bikes were used 7 days a week, including a 120ks round trip to work, long distance touring with a pillion, and production racing. In 18 years I only once had a breakdown, a stripped fibre auto advance gear on the 69 pre unit T110. Nor did the bikes seem to suffer from the excessive vibration so often espoused on this forum. With no balance shaft, bar end weights or rubber mounts they compared very well with my present bike, and were certainly more comfortable to ride for distances of 6oo to 700ks. Performance wise, on the road they were streets ahead of the earlier Jap machines until the early 70s. Look up production race results for that time and you'll rarely find a Jap bike featured in the first ten.
The turning point came when Triumph decided to enlarge the 650 without strengthening an already stressed bottom end. While the 650s remained number one in the sales figures alongside the Commando the 750 brought nothing but trouble. The Trident, always refered to as a last gasp effort to beat the Honda 750 was actually designed long before. The prototype, based on the Speed Twin engine specs, including cam profiles, bore and stroke, was on the road when I was at the factory in 1963. If Triumph management had known what was to come it could have been a different story. As it was, the Trident did very well in competition, showing the opposition, including MV Agusta on one occasion, a clean, or in the case of 'Slippery Sam' oily, pair of heels well into the 70s.
The new Bonneville, although technically far more advanced and more powerful than it's 60s predecessor is nothing like it in terms of handling or riding pleasure. They have turned a lightweight thoroughbred with good if sometimes quirky handling into an overweight carthorse that performs adequately but without character.
In the case of who copied who. The W650 is undoubtably a copy of the later Bonnevilles in style but with modern engineering and a better engine. Likewise, when Triumph made the decision to bring back the Bonneville it was the W650 they looked at for inspiration. Nothing wrong or new with that. It's been going on since bikes were invented. Harley Davidson would seem to be the only manufacturer to have stuck to their own designs and survived.
Incidentally, to prove I wasn't one eyed in my choice of bikes. In 1967 I bought a Suzuki Super Six. It broke down twice in the first year. First a holed piston, second a broken gear selecter shaft. Apart from that it was a good bike with better than average performance and handling but with a top speed of only 90mph it had to go.

[James Deuce]

For goodness sake guys, the two companies, old Triumph and new Triumph are completely different companies, only vaguely linked by a similar logo and country of origin.

Talk about a fight over which apple compares best to which orange.

[BAD DAD]

I've got an old 50's Thunderbird which leaks oil from every oriffice but that old bike starts first or second kick without fail. It probabably just about qualifies as a "rat" and rattles like an old bedford bus. At the traffic lights if the phase is a long one I'll end up sitting in my own personal cloud as the head gasket exhales almost as much as the exhausts and it has obviously had plenty of attention from the odd butcher from time to time,it was "reconditioned" about 500 miles ago before I bought it. But the whole point of this waffle is that that machine is a real motorbike and has a fun rating of 99% and it must have provided real motorcycling in it's past even before I was born

[Motu]

For goodness sake guys, the two companies, old Triumph and new Triumph are completely different companies, only vaguely linked by a similar logo and country of origin.

Talk about a fight over which apple compares best to which orange.


Like a thread that even remotely smells of Harley,some people just can't keep their prejudices out of it.

[Bonez]

If Triumph management had known what was to come it could have been a different story.
The Meridian Triumph management had plenty of warning. It's just that they chose to ignore it.


Harley Davidson would seem to be the only manufacturer to have stuck to their own designs and survived.

Have you forgotten about the US govt tarrifs on Japanese bikes over 700cc in the 1980s? http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/autos/topics/handle_bars/index.html?query=UNITED%20STATES%20INTERNATIONAL%2 0TRADE&field=des&match=exact

[James Deuce]

Most awesome Fleudian Srip of the year goes to:

had prenty of warning

[Bonez]

Most awesome Fleudian Srip of the year goes to:Only for a nanosecond. Well caught btw.

[Motu]

If you know your motorcycle history you will know it was simply a complex issue.Dragging one bone out of the coffin and shaking it is a bit pointless....unless your only intention is to fuck around with Jim2's thread.You wouldn't be such a ground crawling guttless slimeball would you??

[Fatjim]

.Low oil presure lights are more often used on cars - and when the light comes on your engine has just destroyed itself.Why should a motorcycle be any different.



Sorry M, I'm gonna have to take issue with this. You don't need oil pressure to lubricate moving parts, you just need oil. You stop pumping oil around and the oil sitting in the bearings will still have be lubricating most of you moving parts, and exception might be parts that scrap, al a rings, than parts that rub, al a big end bearings.

In addition, oil has a zinc additive which provides a sacrificial layer of metal that wears when the lubrication fails.

I used to get the green (go figure) oil warning light on my old Anglia on occasionally, including the time I ripped a hole in the sump down by the river.

Never had a problem, that thing was THRASHED & ran cheap 30/40 oil.

[Paul in NZ]

Good Lord - this is a great thread.. wowsers the old British is best vs Jap crap - cool - it's like the 70's all over again... EXCELLENT.

Anyway - my only point was - oh no triumphs shitting their cranks again was daft.... FFS my 1970 TR6C (with 1967 engine) that I have owned damn near 18 years and personally ridden... um... heaps... At least 100,000km and it was rooted when I bought it is still on the original std big end bearings and at times it often runs bugger all oil pressure.

But an old Triumph will do that because it has a plain bearing bottom end and the centrifugal force of the crank spinning generally creates enough pressure provided the flow rate is adequate.

What we don't know is what sort of bottom end the new ones in question use and if the light is an oil pressure light (pretty well useless) or an oil level lamp (Lou answered this but was ignored).

So one thing we can agree on is nothing changed - ignore the basics on yer Trumpy and you pay the price.....

Paul N

besides - on todays wellie xmas ride whos bike got the most pictures taken of it parked up in Cuba Mall hmmm? Old Triumphs ROCK....

[Bonez]

Sorry M, I'm gonna have to take issue with this. You don't need oil pressure to lubricate moving parts, you just need oil. You stop pumping oil around and the oil sitting in the bearings will still have be lubricating most of you moving parts, and exception might be parts that scrap, al a rings, than parts that rub, al a big end bearings. Can comfirm that. When I put Gerties engine back together I omitted to notice a small stone that had wedged itself somehow in the crank cases. Probably fell in when I lifted the barrels I imagine. Heard a loud "crack!" as it proceeded to break the gear for the oil pump drive. This runs of one of the gear shafts. Oil pressure light come on. Was probably fast idling at about 2000rpm for a minute or so prior. Didn't want to lug it. Revved the thing to see if it would go out thinking maybe I was just imagining things (possible another 30 or so, maybe more, secs went by). Nope. Turned her off. Pulled the engine out of the frame. Split the crank cases removing the stone, replaced the cracked gear shaft where the gear was mounted (nice 1 inch split where the locating pin was situated) and replaced the oil pump drive gear. Had a look at the cam cap bearing surfaces I'd lightly greased, bottem end bearing etc and oil pump as a precausionary measure. Didn't bother looking at the bores (I'd lubed them liberally with 20w50 out of an oiling can prior). No obvious damage. The engines done 70,000 plus thousand kms since then.

[Bonez]

Old Triumphs ROCK....Certainly do. But don't tell anyone I said that. Ok?

[Patch]

Cheers to the grey beards for this insightful read. :apint: Having not the experience nor knowledge to actually comment on this 'ere current subject, I'm not going too, but will say that I have always liked the old school stuff. Whether it be the character of the machines, the people involved or just simply reminising with my Grandfather about his old bikes. :cool:
Might one day buy an oldie but a goodie, only hope there'll be someone around knowledgable to teach me how to look after it. :ride:

Cheers lads :corn: Much respect

[Paul in NZ]

Certainly do. But don't tell anyone I said that. Ok?

Our little secret mate...ssshhh!

End of the day - I don't care what people ride - as long as they do and if they are passionate about it - thats even better...

[nsrpaul]

CRIPES

qiut a bitching, if you are worried about oil use of the 675, just buy an r6, the look heaps better anyways!!!!!!!

[Edbear]

No. Would car manufacturers expect you to check your oil every time you drove? I don't think so. This is the 21st century and gawd dammit I expect to get on my bike and ride it and maybe check the oil every 2 or 3 thousand kay's just like in my car. In fact..that's what I've managed to do for the past 15 years riding without any problems (2 smokes excepted).


Point taken, my bike doesn't use enough oil that I'm topping it up very often, but maybe I'm paranoid since seizing my old XS750 Special many years ago. It was using oil and I didn't check it often enough.

It would be interesting to know the manufacturers' stated oil usage for their various models, if anyone has that info? I still say, though. that high-revving, high-performance engines will use a certain amount of oil by comparison with your "daily driver". Our car uses none between changes, (15,000k servicing), my work truck doesn't use enough to top up between services and our old ('93), Nissan turbo-diesel van has negligible use as well. I do remember an expert many years ago saying that a high-performance motor should use a bit of oil.

[Ixion]

Alfas use some oil between changes. The manufacturers make a point of advising that this is normal and cautioning that you should check and top up regularly.

The old XK Jag engine was also known as an oil burner. Clearances on high performance engines are less tight than those on more mundane models.

[Motu]

It's usually older design low performance engines that use more oil.Valve guide seals and piston ring design weren't up to the modern norm.Pushrod engines have little oil in the vavle area so seals were pretty basic...as some has to lube the guide.The modern engine uses low wall pressure rings,they use the pressure of compression and combution to seal....old style rings in low compression engines use more wall pressure to seal.They just use more oil.I don't see why a high performance engine should use more oil.

[James Deuce]

TRX850's use a bit of oil, but that is documented in the owners manual. Some sort of complex harmonics thing to do with firing order and 5 valves per cylinder.

However the Triumph 675 shouldn't be using 2/3rds of its oil between the first and second services in my opinion. That isn't in keeping with modern expectations at all. If it is using that much oil the service intervals should be half of what they are. I found the article in Bike and the Triumph people said that the oil consumption was in keeping with what they would expect for "moderate to hard use". It's a sprotsbike. It's going to get thrashed.

As much as it may gall the more mechanically inclined on the site, there really are people who don't know about oil, coolant, and brake fluid and are barely able to cope with picking the right pump in the forecourt to refuel at.

[Motu]

In the old days (yawn) those were the sort of people who didn't stick with motorcycles for very long....you needed some sort of mechanical sympathy to ride a bike back then.Now with bikes just being a plaything people with absolutly no mechanical sympathy at all ride bikes.And they still have problems....but now someone else is to blame for their lack of knowledge.

Motorcycles used to an elite club,only certain types rode bikes...they enjoyed them,knew how they worked,looked after them themselves.Now it seems to be an elite club for the rich....and ''the serciceman'' looks after your equipment.

[Bonez]

Found this. Any mention of checking the oil level?

[James Deuce]

Found this. Any mention of checking the oil level?

It feels like a trick question but I'll venture a timid no. Except for the defined intervals of course.

[Bonez]

It feels like a trick question but I'll venture a timid no. Except for the defined intervals of course.I'm guessing they're relying too much on the oil level light gimmick. Does the bike have a sight glass or dip stick (old fashioned I know but functional :yes:) to double check do you know?

[Bonez]

A dedicated 675 forum here for those interested.

http://www.triumph675.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=15&sid=b9254016c17d6b101cf21f7dbc7936b0

Yip they have a dip stick. How quaint-

http://www.triumph675.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4761

Those posts are Sep 06 so there's been an issue for sometime.

Another thread which mentions various m/c mag articles-

http://www.triumph675.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4526

[James Deuce]

I'd just like to point out that I don't in any way want Triumph or the 675 to fail.

Thank you for finding out about the dipstick Bonez. I can put the stack or magazines down now.

[Bonez]

I'd just like to point out that I don't in any way want Triumph or the 675 to fail.

Thank you for finding out about the dipstick Bonez. I can put the stack or magazines down now.
I think the thanks should go to you Jim2 for bringing it to everyones attention. Seems NZ dealerships don't seem to have let on about it. Looks like the servicing manuals have been ammended looking at that thread.

Edit- I do like new Triumphs slogon "Go your own way" and their model range btw. Something for most road riders is available and they can only get better ;).

[rdkls]

Funny. I found this thread while looking for a new crank, rod and bearings for my 06 daytona because it drank all its oil .... changed the oil a month ago but rode quite a bit, at reasonable speeds (not racing though), then one day on the way home - oh no ....
anyway off to look for wreckers ..... suggestions welcome =)