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CBobR
28th December 2006, 12:49
Hi all,

I've read that when on soft sand, you have to go fast to stay on top. But what is a good technique to get a heavy bike going again after you have to stop?

After the first time the bike sank trying to restart, I began to run beside the bike and jump on to prevent bogging till I was up to speed. But I can see a situation for example if the bike stopped in a valley between dunes that I would be in trouble.

Thanks

Firefight
28th December 2006, 13:38
what sort of tyres are you running and what pressure are you running in the back tyre ?

F/F

merv
28th December 2006, 15:58
You gotta hook as high a gear as you can as quick as you can and get it biting not just digging a hole. Low tyre pressure helps but make sure you got security clamps holding your bead to the rim.

laRIKin
28th December 2006, 17:10
That sand looks real soft and there is FA you can do.
If the sand is real soft and the bike is heavy you are F@%*ed.

I had a trials bike that I could ride across the beach easy and could not get it stuck.
But know matter what I tried my XT500 got stuck.

I think it's a matter of the size of the contact patch V the weight of the bike.
Letting air will help, but there comes a point that the tire is just not wide enough to support the weight of the bike and rider.

bugjuice
28th December 2006, 17:15
wouldn't lower tyre pressure and light/slipping the clutch help...?

NordieBoy
28th December 2006, 17:27
Sand paddles help too :D

CBobR
28th December 2006, 17:30
Thanks for the replies all, I guess I need to be a bit more cautious untill I have the skills to consistantly ride dune top to dune top. (did anyone that did the Kaipara 200 feel their sand riding improved? I may be on the next one)

In the pic I was on worn out TKC80s at about 25psi. I want to ride africa one day so all my little trips are learning by trial and error :).

edit:*goes off to investigate rim locks*, thanks for the tip

Ixion
28th December 2006, 17:31
Yeah, but they tend to be a bit hairy on seal!

Best thing I ever found with soft sand and big bike was to keep out of it. Or hit it very fast and try to blast through on sheer speed. If you dig a hole, getting some sea water and pouring on the sand will firm it up a bit, maybe enough to get out of the hole

EDIT 25psi is too high for sand. Maybe 10psi. With rim locks. And leaning over and weaving when going through it helps a bit too. YMMV.

Motu
28th December 2006, 19:29
A heavy bike in soft sand is just plain hard work.You have to get that tyre spinning to get under way - hook 2nd,rev it and dump the clutch,and push.It'll start moving and get up on the sand and you'll get underway.A good knob might just dig a big hole,a crap tyre can be better in sand.You have to get the motor up on it's powerband and keep it there,spin that back wheel...bog out and you'll sink again.I have more problems with the front end in soft sand with a heavy bike,just no directional stability,I wobble all over the place and finaly crash.

merv
28th December 2006, 19:40
There is another moral to this story and that is if you are like me you won't ride a heavy bike in the first place.

Crisis management
28th December 2006, 20:16
My limited experience (very limited!) with DR650 was that momentum was the best tool, high gear and keep moving.... At any sort of high speed terror would take over and gravity seemed to win. Having said that, a lot of people ride a lot faster than me, so practice must help.
The Kaipara 200 did not include a lot of soft sand just the entrance and exit to the beach, the beach itself was hard packed and fast. It was my first off road experience and I survived (crashed in a gorse bush, twice in mud puddles, once on the gravel but not on the beach!) so I would recommend it! Character building it was, I'll look for you next year?

clint640
8th January 2007, 14:15
Dunno about how to get going again from stuck, but I found sand riding a lot easier after someone told me to keep my weight back, power on & carry plenty of revs.

Cheers
Clint

Flyingpony
8th January 2007, 14:38
I've read that when on soft sand, you have to go fast to stay on top. But what is a good technique to get a heavy bike going again after you have to stop?
As others have said, 2nd gear and keep it high in the RPM band while walking beside it - a ploughman special. This can take 5-10 minutes so the engine will get hot.

Then there's quick sand ... Have hit that stuff before in river beds and gone from forty to zero extremely quickly with the bike bogged such it's resting on it's exhaust pipe protection shield (front/rear wheel both sunk in) - sank beyond my ankles standing on that stuff too. Was fun to get it all out ... Moral: dark sand doesn't always mean firm and can suddenly change solidness without any colour alteration :shit:

Edit: The above were done with my dirt bike pre-FXR150 ownership. Actually, don't think the FXR has even ridden on grass ...

Ixion
8th January 2007, 14:46
Be watchful when riding through wet sand toward a stream. The fresh water can run under the sand causing the quicksand effect you speak off. I once got my Honda bogged as deep as the cylinder head. With the tide coming in! It sank from wheel rim deep to crankcase deep within about a yard, and efforts to extrivate it bogged it deeper very quickly. I was thigh deep standing beside it.

By good fortune there were several sheets of old corrogated iron on the foreshore. With the aid of a friend, we frantically scooped sand from one side of the bike then tipped the bike sideways onto a sheet of iron. The iron was broad enough not to sink. Then hauled the iron back a few yards and righted the bike and rode off. It was a close call.

Motu
8th January 2007, 14:58
And beware of sand that is actualy bottomless stinky blue mud.I've mentioned it on here before - but once I lauched my Rickman full song in 2nd off a bank and in a powerstand down the beach....I was half way to the water before it stopped dead.There was no one for miles and it was one hell of a mission to drag it out on it's side.

I got my KT250 in a similar way - some clowns tried to ride it across a bay when the tide was out.....they told me where I could pick it up the next day,been through a couple of tides.

thehollowmen
8th January 2007, 18:50
I know it sounds stupid, but a couple of small foot long planks (NON TREATED) are useful if you get stuck. Just shove one under the frount of the wheel, rev, and go.

If you're smooth enough you can pick it up again as you do a loop and go past.

Nathan
10th January 2007, 23:05
Putting sticks and other junk under the rear wheel can help. Also try digging out the sand in front of the wheel so that it doesn't have to climp as high to get out.

As already stated, when riding in sand, keep your speed up. Stand up with your weight towards the back to keep the front light. Ride smoothly and try to change direction slowly. The bike will want to wander and do crazy things. Just relax and try to let it find it's own path. The key is being smooth and trusting your bike.

XP@
12th January 2007, 08:17
try pushing the bike on to its side a few times, every time you do it the hole will fill up with some sand.

Then do as you are doing, put her in to 2nd and walk her out and learn how to get on when she is moving.

Finally when the day is done and you get home thank your lucky stars that all grease and oil that accumulates on the rear rim is gone and that although the rest of your bike needs a bloody good clean your back wheel is shiny.

Wolf
12th January 2007, 08:31
The guys on the XT225 site generally recommend no more than 15psi on sand even for a light bike such as the XT - and from what they've written, even with a light bike and 10psi, it is not a trivial task to ride in sand. One of the blokes rides in sand as his exercise regime - it is that much work even on a light bike he gets a thorough work-out.

Reading the other posts regarding quicksand and Motu's blue sticky stuff, I'd rather try sliding my XT225 out on it's side than a whacking-great F650.

I think I'll stick to small and light...

warewolf
12th January 2007, 08:55
Get started any way you can! :shit:

One thing I'd add, in terms of how to keep riding, is that you steer with footpeg pressure rather than turning the handlebars.

chris
12th January 2007, 11:05
Momentum is your friend, ( here (http://lard.smugmug.com/photos/106699188-L.jpg)) don't stop!

Wolf
12th January 2007, 12:57
try pushing the bike on to its side a few times, every time you do it the hole will fill up with some sand.
An argument for having a bloody light bike if ever I saw one!

Lets see the cagers try to pull that stunt when they're bogged in sand, eh?

Quite a good process for getting out of loose sand, dude.

XP@
12th January 2007, 13:13
An argument for having a bloody light bike if ever I saw one!

Lets see the cagers try to pull that stunt when they're bogged in sand, eh?

Quite a good process for getting out of loose sand, dude.

dripping...

yup, and if it's hot don't try it in full road gear. take your jacket off, get your bike ridable, then put your gear back on.

If you are riding your way round africa then your aluminium panniers and the rest of your luggage ain't going to help!

Wolf
12th January 2007, 13:51
dripping...

yup, and if it's hot don't try it in full road gear. take your jacket off, get your bike ridable, then put your gear back on.

If you are riding your way round africa then your aluminium panniers and the rest of your luggage ain't going to help!
Mate, if it's hot I won't push the bike on tarmac in full gear! jacket and leggings slung over the handlebars, helmet on lock and plenty of rest stops on the way...

Quick release luggage systems would be the best for the likes of Africa - take your gear off the bike after you've removed the aforementioned jacket...

cooneyr
12th January 2007, 15:20
Low tyre pressures and momentum are all good until you slow down for whatever reason. One thing I find helps when trying to accelerate (or start) again is not to give it too much throttle. Pulse the throttle so that there is a little wheel spin then back off the throttle so the wheel can slow down and get close to traction then spin again. Basically pulse the throttle so you "just" have wheel spin. If you just crack the throttle open you may find you just have another hole or you have a lot of pushing to do and the wheel and ground speeds are never the same.

Works great on the pea gravel we have in some riverbeads down here too.

Once you are back ontop with some speed then give it to it.

Cheers
R

CBobR
13th January 2007, 19:41
Some great info in this thread, cheers people.

Chris and warewolf, what's on the other side of that sand dune? (Muriwai right?) I think I've been to the top but wasn't keen to go down the inland side incase I got stuck there. Thanks.

warewolf
13th January 2007, 22:40
Chris and warewolf, what's on the other side of that sand dune? (Muriwai right?) I think I've been to the top but wasn't keen to go down the inland side incase I got stuck there. Nup. Over the dune is the bike park. It is downhill about the same as the uphill, then maybe 100m along the flat that is really badly whooped out. Then you're on solid gravel road again.

Muriwai is 16km further south, where we got onto the beach that day.