Project CRM

[Ghost Lemur]

Thought I'd start a new thread for this endevour.

Due to a chain snapping (see pic 4) my engine needs to be removed as the casing below where the gear lever enters the engine has been smashed (see pic 2).

As some of you know my chain snapped a couple of weeks ago on a group ride. It had a temp repair and initially I thought this repair had failed before I'd had a chance to replace the chain/sprokets. But as you can see in pic 5 the two temp links are intact so the chain infact broke in a completely new spot.

Pics 1 and 3 show the current state of the bike, hanging from the rafters. So far besides stripping the plastics, tank and seat, I've unattached the clutch cable. Next step I need to remove the wires(?) in pic 6. What are they and how do I go about it?

Also the CRM has a seperate oil reservoir, how do I go about removing the hoses where the enter the engine without pissing oil everywhere?

Dependant on how big a cost (and therefore timeframe that my bike is going to be off the road for) I might take this oportunity to get the frame resprayed/powder coated and the tank resprayed.

[laRIKin]

Can you say. My chain was to tight? Bugger
Two master links not the best idea, I'll admit that I have done it before.

Hope you get it back on the road soon.

[Motu]

Plug the hose with a bolt,or crimp and fold the hose over to stop the flow.Do those cables go to the powervalve? It's difficult to see what it is - just remove that outer cover and unhook the cables....taking note of any adjust ment.

That other clip is only half in,ready to fail.It's not often you see a chain just snap like that,usualy if they are worn they will pull apart at the pin.I don't like O rings chains as it's harder to check for wear.Looks like it's better to replace earlier than later.

Good luck with the work.I'll be joining you soon when I get inside my DT230.

[merv]

You haven't shown us a decent directly side on picture of the motor but I asked on the other thread wouldn't your gear lever enter via the sidecase and not the main engine case. Its hard to tell from that pic you've taken which looks to be looking up from under the frame.

If it is only the sidecase you should be able to take that off without removing the engine from the frame.

The wires in pic 6 Motu has got it there, just take that cover off and disconnect the cables and remove them.

The broken chain certainly looks like you had it way too tight for it to fail like that and as I said before get yourself a decent chain and fit a rivetted link - that bike has stacks of grunt and deserves such. Man three joining links on one chain - phew! However, as you said it wasn't the joiners that failed.

[merv]

Mate have you seen this page http://offwidth.co.uk/bike/crm_rebuild/index.html

... even has a pdf manual there. Funny thing is it still doesn't show me the left side cases too clearly as it concentrates on the RHS where gear removal and everything seems to be done from. Looks like it confirms though that the gear shaft goes straight into one of the main crankcase parts and not through a side case making engine removal necessary like you are doing.

Hope the above might be helpful to you.

[Ghost Lemur]

Thanks for the tips so far guys.

lemans - I'm pretty sure the chain wasn't tight as Linton had a good look at it when I went in to see him.

Thanks for the link merv, I downloaded it a few months ago and stashed it away. Will pull it out and start looking again, hopefully it's not too dissimilar to mine as it was a Mk2 (iirc) that he stripped.

Here's some more piccies.

1-3 - the smashed bits from the casing.
4 - the sprokets.
5 - full view of the left hand side of the engine (hope this helps merv).
6 - closer side view of where the gear lever enters the engine.

[laRIKin]

I'm pretty sure the chain wasn't tight as Linton had a good look at it when I went in to see him.

Well I don't know the in's and out's on how the chain snapped.
I do know that it would take a lot of strain to snap a pair of side plates on a link.
I have know-en the pins to rust and snap easy on a older chain, if it has not been looked after.

[Motu]

To break the housing under the shaft I think you might find the shaft is bent.But you should be able to straighten it again...pity it means an engine strip.

[Ghost Lemur]

To break the housing under the shaft I think you might find the shaft is bent.But you should be able to straighten it again...pity it means an engine strip.

I am pretty sure the shaft if bent. Hopefully it's a fixer and doesn't need replacing.

While all this does suck, and means I'm going to have to spend money I don't have, I am trying to look on the bright side and remember that this is what I wanted to do, learn how to strip and rebuild bikes. True I wanted to practice on a project bike (so I could learn and play while still being able to ride the CRM) first before touching my own machine. But a learn is a learn.

Suppose I should be thankful that I'm enjoying working on my bike almost as much as I enjoy riding it.

*dashes back out to the gargre to do the next couple of bits*

[gammaguy]

i happen to know a bit about your bike as i believe the prev.owner is a customer of mine.I am pretty sure he imported it from the UK.Which means salt on the roads,which as im sure you know,is death to chains.
good luck with the rebuild its a special bike you have there!:rockon:

[Ghost Lemur]

Did some more work on this last night and the engines ready to be removed. Unfortunately I broke one of my socket attachments and sheared one of the sockets I need to remove one of the support bolts.

Sprayed a ton of CRC on them and will borrow a mates socket, so the engine should hopefully come out today/tonight.

I was considering doing some beautifying while the bike stripped down. I've decided against this. Main reason is $$$, it's going to be hard enough finding the cash for repairs without finding extra money for unnecessaries. Secondly, I'm currently suffering withdrawls and it's only been a week, so I need the bike back together asap. Lastly, as it's going to continue to be used (dropped down hill sides, taken swimming, etc) it'll never look pretty for long.

What I might do is as I have extra cash get bits here and there, new plastics one months, tail light another. Then just set them aside until I have everything for the beautification, then I can do the whole lot in one go without having a stripped down bike sitting for weeks waiting on a part from Japan or the UK.

I'll take some pics of the tank and frame, as I think I am going to need to do some rust treatment/prevension work on them as a necessity. Also I pulled off the left side over and the piece underneath (clutch cover? will post a pic when I get home) is rusty, so I'll need to find out about cleaning/replacing it.

[Flyingpony]

... I am going to need to do some rust treatment/prevension work on them as a necessity...
After you have removed all the flaky bits and wire brushed it, I heard from an Auckland BMW mechanic that painting it with a product called Rust Roy (spelling?) is best. I stops the rust and takes 24hrs to cure black. Try auto/glass shops for it, doubt Repco & SuperCheap Auto have it.

[Ghost Lemur]

After you have removed all the flaky bits and wire brushed it, I heard from an Auckland BMW mechanic that painting it with a product called Rust Roy (spelling?) is best. I stops the rust and takes 24hrs to cure black. Try auto/glass shops for it, doubt Repco & SuperCheap Auto have it.

Cheers. I've found John Brooks Ltd here in Chch stock rustroy. I'll do some more reading on it, but it's definitely on my short-list.

[Ghost Lemur]

Here's the pics I was talking about a couple of posts up...

[Ghost Lemur]

And some more...

[Ghost Lemur]

And now the questions.

I've decided I definitely want to clean up the tank as I don't want it getting worse. What the best method to remove the paint, particularly considering the fiddly places like where the rad shrouds screw in (which appears to have a space behind the piece of metal spot welded to the tank itself. Once the paint has been removed and rust treated I might consider filling in that space with bog or something to prevent reoccurences), am I going to need to remove/cut off those pieces of metal to get behind them or is there a product/way of getting in there and either treating the surface or removing the rust?

Secondly the frame bits seem pretty easy, rust treat then touch up paint. I hate white frames, but I've already decided I'm not in a postition to do the whole frame. That gold cover is plastic of some sort so don't really care about it atm.

Third is behind the same cover on the other side. No idea what these bits are but as you can see there's a fair bit of rust. Is this and issue, or is it just superficial? What are these bits? Am I going to need to do some replacing or can I treat them? Also obviously the rust is there due to water getting in behind the plastic cover, as it's a dualsport this will continue to happen. Any recommendations on a silicon or something that I could use create a water tight seal between the cover and then engine? Obviously it can't be a permanent bonding (nor needs to be as there's enough screws) because the cover could need to come off again in future.

As you can see the engine is still in the frame, as I'm keep breaking sockets and attachments trying to undo the mounting bolts.

[Motu]

Repco do a product called Rustfix I think - it comes in a spray can and turns the metal black.I use this in a lot of hard to get at areas.Use some of the zinc sprays too,you can get various colours now....the plain grey can be used as a primer,the shiny stuff can go over previously galv parts,and I use the black a lot as it gives a good hard surface.Get some lanolin in spray and grease form....you could use the grease behind that cover.

[Ghost Lemur]

Cheers Motu.

Got a mate over trying to help me get the engine out. Got the rear mounting nut off, but can't get the bolt (attaches frame to swingarm to engine to reverse on the otherside) out. Is there a secret tip where missing? We've sheared sockets trying to turn the bolt we've hit the other side with a hammer trying to push it out. Nothing is working.

[car]

Got a mate over trying to help me get the engine out. Got the rear mounting nut off, but can't get the bolt (attaches frame to swingarm to engine to reverse on the otherside) out. Is there a secret tip where missing? We've sheared sockets trying to turn the bolt we've hit the other side with a hammer trying to push it out. Nothing is working.

A trick I've used a couple of times, not sure if it's suitable in your case, is to get some long, gentle heat into the situation. Set up a hot air blower -- like an electric paint stripper -- a couple of feet away, blowing onto the offending casing. Leave it like that (but probably best not unattended) until everything is good and hot, then go back, give it a whack with a hammer, impact driver, whatever's suitable for the actual fitting.

Works where oxy-acetylene would help, but without setting fire to everything, melting things, screwing up the temper of your metal, etc. It's helped me get stubborn wheel bolts out of drums, for instance.

Obviously, not a great idea where there's plastic, fuel hose, etc.

[Ghost Lemur]

Time for a update.

Nothing to update. Still haven't been able to get the main mounting bolt out. Bought a heat gun. Didn't budge. Air powered impact wrench. Nada.

Driving me crazy. Although as the bank balance isn't looking very healthy it'll probably be a little while before I can afford to take the engine to DAS anyway.

Still it would alieviate some stress if I could just get the damn engine out.

[cooneyr]

Well I don't know the in's and out's on how the chain snapped.
I do know that it would take a lot of strain to snap a pair of side plates on a link.
I have know-en the pins to rust and snap easy on a older chain, if it has not been looked after.

Not sure why (didn't look at chain tension) but it was side links that failed on the group ride too. Looked to me like the side links that failed were well fatigued and half broken anyway. Not sure what would cause that? Doesn't seem sensible, would think the inner links or the pins would go first. Maybe the sprockets are out of line?????

Cheers R

[merv]

I've only ever once snapped a chain and it dates back to my early days with long travel monoshock suspension and I was so used to running the old twin shocks with not much chain slack I was silly enough to definitely have the chain too tight. There I am riding an enduro in 1983 and my chain went BANG and failed just like that - straight through the side plates. Racing down hill at the time in the middle of trees in a forest and all of a sudden no engine braking was a hairy experience, but I survived. Always allowed plenty of chain slack after that.

So what I'm saying is that chain too tight I believe would be the cause and yes they can fail like that. Why not necessarily at the joiners? Well it depends where the chain is on the sprocket run when you hit a bump or come off a jump and seriously compress the suspension tightening the chain is my guess. If the joiner is happily around the back sprocket at that split second moment it survives.