Tena Koutou

[750Y]

Well it's Maori Language week.
Here's a phrase... Tena Koutou (Greetings to You all)
Try not to get too over-excited peoples, it's merely a charitable gesture...
Hei Kona Mai(Goodbye for Now)
Kia Pai Tou Ra(Have a good day)

[Hitcher]

Apparently "kotanga" isn't the Maori word for "car aerial"...

[jrandom]

Goody.

Let's take this opportunity to have a frothy, vitriolic, unbalanced and flame-filled Treaty thread.

Who's going first?

[Deano]

Goody.

Let's take this opportunity to have a frothy, vitriolic, unbalanced and flame-filled Treaty thread.

Who's going first?

I would like to see the Kahu's from Shortland Street speak in maori less often as I can't understand them half the time (except for the following).

Tena koutou
Tena koe
Kapai
Tu Meke
Haere mai
Chur bro

I mean, there is a whole maori channel and Te Karere as well.

[sAsLEX]

taking a paper at uni on the resource maori act so should have a few pearlers in a few weeks!

[750Y]

Stop stirring JR. this is not intended as a controversy.
These are just some phrases of goodwill & respect.

[Deano]

Apparently "kotanga" isn't the Maori word for "car aerial"...

Motoka is the word for automobile though.

And I hear the maori word for troll is motu.....

[merv]

... and there is kapu ti, for cup of tea and usually a big feed too.

Just shows how language develops eh!

[Devil]

"Ai step yous for ya shoes, whitey"

/groan

[Hitcher]

Motoka is the word for automobile though.

And I hear the maori word for troll is motu.....
Tee hee! Not bad for a Monday...

[duckman]

**steps cautiously away from the thread, mindful not to make any sudden movements ** :crazy:

[Velox]

Motoka is the word for automobile though.



I prefer "motopaika"

(I think it's an 'a' on the end?)

[Paul in NZ]

This is pretty cool...

Not to many hints on sentence construction but..

http://kel.otago.ac.nz/translator/

Cheers

[Motu]

Motoka is the word for automobile though.

And I hear the maori word for troll is motu.....

Whose that walking on my bridge!

[merv]

Are you down there with the Taniwhas Motu?

[riffer]

Might be a little off topic but tomorrow I have the privilege of digitising one of the country's most complete whakepapa scrolls.

It's 30 metres long, which should be an interesting challenge as I can only digitise objects 1.5 metres long. I will be digitising it in around 24 pieces, and "stitching" it together in Photoshop to allow it to be saved for posterity.

All maori customs are to be followed. It is being accompanied by Kaumatua, and will receive a full welcome at the library at 9.30 tomorrow.

This is a big deal for the iwi involved, the national library and for our facility, and its kinda cool that we are doing this in maori language week.

e noho rä fullas.

[MikeL]

**steps cautiously away from the thread, mindful not to make any sudden movements ** :crazy:

Me too. I think I'll stick to religion. Much safer...

[moko]

Then there`s that good old Maori word "Utu",tread carefully chaps ;)

[merv]

Might be a little off topic but tomorrow I have the privilege of digitising one of the country's most complete whakepapa scrolls.

It's 30 metres long, which should be an interesting challenge as I can only digitise objects 1.5 metres long. I will be digitising it in around 24 pieces, and "stitching" it together in Photoshop to allow it to be saved for posterity.

All maori customs are to be followed. It is being accompanied by Kaumatua, and will receive a full welcome at the library at 9.30 tomorrow.

This is a big deal for the iwi involved, the national library and for our facility, and its kinda cool that we are doing this in maori language week.

e noho rä fullas.

That will be worth a good feed after the initial ceremony is over.

[750Y]

Quote from Duckman:"**steps cautiously away from the thread, mindful not to make any sudden movements **"

Me too. I think I'll stick to religion. Much safer...

thanks for stopping by anyway guys...

Noho Ora Mai Ra(Look after Yourself)

[Posh Tourer :P]

one of the country's most complete whakepapa scrolls.
Did you mean whakapapa?

[Jackrat]

"Ai step yous for ya shoes, whitey"

/groan
Cha,Showing ya' years a bit there bro.
Havn't bin stepped out in years. :niceone:

[Hitcher]

**steps cautiously away from the thread, mindful not to make any sudden movements ** :crazy:
Horoi o ringa ringa

[Devil]

Cha,Showing ya' years a bit there bro.
Havn't bin stepped out in years. :niceone:
Scarily enough it was maybe 5 years ago. I'd never had someone say that to me before. I was like "you want to what?" "what the hell are you talking about?"

[duckman]

Horoi o ringa ringa
Ummmm.... eh??

[Mongoose]

Ummmm.... eh??


Is that not posted in public toilets, "Wash your hands" or something loosely translated into that.

[Hitcher]

Is that not posted in public toilets, "Wash your hands" or something loosely translated into that.
Exactamundo

[Mongoose]

Exactamundo


Pheeeew, not bad for a white import, huh? :scooter:

[MikeL]

Was going to keep out of this thread but as a linguist found it irresistible. Will avoid Treaty issues, though...
Signs like Horoi o ringa ringa could be seen as a form of tokenism and strictly speaking are illogical. Any literate Maori will be literate in English as well. As well, the expensive and time-consuming practice of translating official documents into Maori serves no practical purpose other than to provide employment for graduates of te reo.
Having said that, I will (hastily) add that I still support the use of Maori and its status as an official language despite my misgivings over the aforementioned practice. This is because without that status, and without efforts to foster use of the language, it will die. The number of indigenous languages spoken in the world decreases yearly. The loss of language (and cultural) diversity is a tragedy. The Maori themselves are tackling the problem from their own particular perspective; for us pakeha to learn a bit of the language and culture of the Maori is not an imposition but a gesture of respect.
Akona te reo.
Hei kona mai.

[Deano]

The Maori themselves are tackling the problem from their own particular perspective; for us pakeha to learn a bit of the language and culture of the Maori is not an imposition but a gesture of respect.
Akona te reo.
Hei kona mai.

As a linguist, could you possibly explain the need to pronounce 'ask', as 'aks', or have some people been watching to many american gangster movies.

[duckman]

I am responsible for supporting and nurturing my language and culture ....
I presume Maori would consider themselves responsible for nurturing their langage and culture .... Why must I learn the maori language in order to understand the nightly news ???
I have witnessed this change in the "NZ's" media over the last few years and find it annoying to say the least. We have a Maori news show and a Maori television network, (excellent) so why does "mainstream" news (i.e TV1) also broadcast to me in dual languages?? - Anyone??

[Hitcher]

I too am all in favour of keeping languages alive as a way of preserving cultural heritage -- particularly languages at risk from a predatory language such as English.

I also believe that any language needs to be treated with courtesy and respect. To that end I have a difficulty with people who appear to favour pidginisation of Maori: e.g. "Kia ora Bro. Let's score some kai." or "Let's korero with the tamariki." Such usage is inane and a real kick in the puku for any real effort to preserve from extinction a unique language.

[750Y]

I can't answer your questions duckman, I would like to be able to but I can't. I'm sorry that You find it so annoying, just change the channel next time, it's not fair for You to to have to feel annoyed just cos you wanna watch the news. Definitely contact TV1 regarding this if You feel strongly enough about it, I'm sure they have a complaints procedure which You can go through or even better they may be able to give you an explanation regarding this. If enough people do this maybe it can be changed back to how it was before.
"I really don't mind if You sit this one out...
my words but a whisper, deafness a shout" ...Jethro Tull

[Deano]

I too am all in favour of keeping languages alive as a way of preserving cultural heritage -- particularly languages at risk from a predatory language such as English.
.

With globalisation, don't you consider that the widespread use of one language makes international communication much easier ?

[vifferman]

Signs like Horoi o ringa ringa could be seen as a form of tokenism and strictly speaking are illogical. Any literate Maori will be literate in English as well. As well, the expensive and time-consuming practice of translating official documents into Maori serves no practical purpose other than to provide employment for graduates of te reo.Yup.
And you forgot to mention the crazy leftist tokenist political correctness that bestows a Maori name on each of our Gummint departments. Why??!?? How does that help anyone? Pharked iffen I know (but then, that's not surprising, as I know less than pharkall....)
:crazy:

[James Deuce]

With globalisation, don't you consider that the widespread use of one language makes international communication much easier ?

There's nothing new under the sun, and despite the way media present the phenomenon, globalisation is nothing new either. Cultures that used globalisation all used a common language as a core tool, for instance Latin for the Roman, Holy Roman, and Papal empires, and "Lingua Franca" or "Court French" for post-renaissance Europe, right up until the early 20th Century. The Venetians and Florentines were exceptional globalist economic empires, covering the breadth of the European and Asian land masses, and probably ultimately responsible for the collapse of the very technologically advanced Moghul India culture.

Cultures that come into conflict with the issues of Globalisation either adapt positively or or adopt a bunker mentality and wither. It is an unpleasant by-product of the Capitalist economic system that cultures without a monetary value system, or with emphasis on a spiritual or philosophical belief system tend to get exploited or regarded as "undeveloped".

[Devil]

.....globalisation.....
SHHHHH, some greenie might misunderstand you and start protesting!

[750Y]

There's nothing new under the sun, and despite the way media present the phenomenon, globalisation is nothing new either. Cultures that used globalisation all used a common language as a core tool, for instance Latin for the Roman, Holy Roman, and Papal empires, and "Lingua Franca" or "Court French" for post-renaissance Europe, right up until the early 20th Century. The Venetians and Florentines were exceptional globalist economic empires, covering the breadth of the European and Asian land masses, and probably ultimately responsible for the collapse of the very technologically advanced Moghul India culture.

Cultures that come into conflict with the issues of Globalisation either adapt positively or or adopt a bunker mentality and wither. It is an unpleasant by-product of the Capitalist economic system that cultures without a monetary value system, or with emphasis on a spiritual or philosophical belief system tend to get exploited or regarded as "undeveloped".

good grief, try saying that in Maori LOL. some things were just never meant to be i spose.

[greenhorn]

Tena kou tou is a special greeting reserved for tow truck drivers as in it's full expression... Tena kou tou car towa

I can hear the collective groans from here

[duckman]

I can't answer your questions duckman, I would like to be able to but I can't. I'm sorry that You find it so annoying, just change the channel next time, it's not fair for You to to have to feel annoyed just cos you wanna watch the news. Definitely contact TV1 regarding this if You feel strongly enough about it, I'm sure they have a complaints procedure which You can go through or even better they may be able to give you an explanation regarding this. If enough people do this maybe it can be changed back to how it was before.
"I really don't mind if You sit this one out...
my words but a whisper, deafness a shout" ...Jethro Tull
Heya Dave, We've met so I hope you'll know that I'm not trying to take the piss... If I change channels, where do I go... to channel 3 where the same thing is happening..to the maori channel, where I won't understand anything at all..?? You are right tho', if I was REALLY annoyed by this shift in PC'nes then I should do something about it. Maybe a complaint to TV1 or 3 would have an effect but I bet my request would be binned as another redneck racist bagging mainstream media for trying to reach all peoples.. Honestly, do you think "they" would care ??? ;)

[Devil]

Tin a cocoa car tour?

[bungbung]

Heya Dave, We've met so I hope you'll know that I'm not trying to take the piss... If I change channels, where do I go...

BBC world service? Prime news? Sky Aust? CNN etc etc

[duckman]

BBC world service? Prime news? Sky Aust? CNN etc etc
All relatively good "international" new services eh.. But don't you think I should be allowed to watch a NZ news broadcast in English?

[MikeL]

As a linguist, could you possibly explain the need to pronounce 'ask', as 'aks',

Certainly.

In terms of diachronic phonology it's the result of a natural tendency towards transposition of certain sounds (technically known as metathesis) found in many languages besides English.

Or it's just crap pronunciation...

[Motu]

BBC world service? Prime news? Sky Aust? CNN etc etc

Prime news - that's one cute chick,an she talks to me like the deaf retard I am,only blondes know how to read the news correctly....

[Hitcher]

With globalisation, don't you consider that the widespread use of one language makes international communication much easier ?
Of course, but that is not always a good thing.

[Hitcher]

Certainly.

In terms of diachronic phonology it's the result of a natural tendency towards transposition of certain sounds (technically known as metathesis) found in many languages besides English.

Or it's just crap pronunciation...
Just like people who say "maffs" instead of "maths"
"Somethink" instead of "something"
And then there's the land of the flat vowel and the "dark" L, and combinations thereof...
"Steer" instead of "stare"
"Ear" instead of "air"
New Zulan
Fush & chups
"Poow" instead of "pool"
"Juw" instead of "Jill"

And then people who have the gall to accuse "foreigners" of not pronouncing the language proper..

Sigh...

[Firefight]

Dave, taku hoa maaua eke tahi.

F/F

[moko]

We have a Maori news show and a Maori television network, (excellent) so why does "mainstream" news (i.e TV1) also broadcast to me in dual languages?? - Anyone??

In Wales less than 20% of the population(of about 3 million I think)speak the language but everything is written in English and Welsh,ironically,or typically more like,highly subsidised by the English taxpayer.Channel 4 t.v. runs a massively loss-making Welsh language channel,all part of the license deal to shut up a few gobby Taffs.Costs the rest of us a fortune to indulge a minority,not what us Europeans invaded the bloody place for all those years ago.Now Cornwall is getting bi-lingual road-signs,and again the rest of us have to subsidise a bunch of inbred Celts.Cornish as spoken today isnt even a real language,it died out and blokes with beards,sandals and sod-all better to do got bits from books and made up the rest,instant culture.Maori`s a neat language,very expressive and I`ve got quite a lot of music,Oceania,One Giant leap,Moana e.t.c.,Welsh sounds like someone pissed choking on a fish-bone,the Cornish talk shit whatever language they use.

[MikeL]

Maori`s a neat language,very expressive ...Welsh sounds like someone pissed choking on a fish-bone,the Cornish talk shit whatever language they use.

Isn't it funny how we find things to criticise in a language when what we really want to do is slag off the people who speak it? To my ears Welsh sounds no harsher or less musical than French or Russian or Thai or whatever. Ever wondered how English sounds to a speaker of a tonal language like Thai or Chinese? Incredibly monotonous, boring, boring, boring...

Fair enough if you don't like the people for whatever reason (they smell, eat snails or monkey brains, can't win wars, have slant eyes, whatever...) but you're in a glass house wildly slinging boulders around when you start to pontificate on the value or aesthetics of a particular language.

P.S. What have the Cornish done to upset you? Did a pasty give you tummy ache...?

[riffer]

In Wales less than 20% of the population(of about 3 million I think)speak the language but everything is written in English and Welsh,ironically,or typically more like,highly subsidised by the English taxpayer.Channel 4 t.v. runs a massively loss-making Welsh language channel,all part of the license deal to shut up a few gobby Taffs.Costs the rest of us a fortune to indulge a minority,not what us Europeans invaded the bloody place for all those years ago.Now Cornwall is getting bi-lingual road-signs,and again the rest of us have to subsidise a bunch of inbred Celts.Cornish as spoken today isnt even a real language,it died out and blokes with beards,sandals and sod-all better to do got bits from books and made up the rest,instant culture.Maori`s a neat language,very expressive and I`ve got quite a lot of music,Oceania,One Giant leap,Moana e.t.c.,Welsh sounds like someone pissed choking on a fish-bone,the Cornish talk shit whatever language they use.

Hmmm. More evidence for why the English are bastards.

The death of indigenous languages and customs around the world is robbing us all of a rich variety of culture.

Interestingly there is a lot of empathy for the welsh and scottish amongst maori in this country, especially as the english practiced all their stuff there first before exporting their own particular variety of ethic cleansing to down under.

[jrandom]

ethic cleansing

That is a curiously apt typographical error.

[moko]

What have the Cornish done to upset you? Did a pasty give you tummy ache...?


Nope,most of that post was tongue in cheek,I can see Cornwall from where I sit now,lived there for a few years,as do most of my family now.I`ve also met a few Cornish nationalists and they`ve all been obssessives with seemingly no other interests in life.There`s a similar rivalry between Cornwall/Devon as there is between different areas in N.Z. and my comments were in the same vein as those here directed at "JAFFA`s" e.t.c.One of the most prominent and out-spoken Cornish nationalists is an old mate of mine and if his legion of fans knew his background they wouldn`t touch the guy with a barge-pole,ex-con,ex -soccer thug (many convictions)and his boast of his age-old Cornish surname being a legacy of it`s glorious past forgets the minor detail that he changed it from one very common and indicating forebears from a county hundreds of miles away to his current one years ago by deed poll.
Welsh I dont like,sounds awful to my ears and I`m just saying what I feel.I`ve also lived in Scotland,where anti-English paranoia reaches ridiculous levels amongst people that should know better.A lot of historical stuff thrown at the English often show proof of more local involvement than is convienient these days.Celts tend to be a lot more bigotted than the "English",racist jokes are rife,despite until recently Cornwall having very few "ethnic" communities,nationally known local comedian Jethro starts a great proportion of his jokes "there was this black bloke",Scotland was the same,where I lived whatever wasn`t the fault of the English was "The blacks",bit odd as I dont remember seeing any in the small town I lived in.So why is it that I used to post that kind of stuff on a Welsh site and they thought it was funny and gave as good as they got while here people get up in arms?
As for Celtic`s comment,I think you`ll find that those colonialists were part of the British Empire,not the English Empire and the Scots more than played their part in it`s events of that era as any study of the histories of the old Scottish regiments will show you.

[750Y]

Heya Dave, We've met so I hope you'll know that I'm not trying to take the piss... If I change channels, where do I go... to channel 3 where the same thing is happening..to the maori channel, where I won't understand anything at all..?? You are right tho', if I was REALLY annoyed by this shift in PC'nes then I should do something about it. Maybe a complaint to TV1 or 3 would have an effect but I bet my request would be binned as another redneck racist bagging mainstream media for trying to reach all peoples.. Honestly, do you think "they" would care ??? ;)

Heya Duckman, No i know You're not taking the piss(even tho it'd be ok if You did 8-), I can hack it. You have a very good point about what You're saying & there's a lot of people who feel the same way. And you're also right about the re-actionism to any negative response. It's not that easy being a Pakeha at times either as the PC world of today makes it really hard to express your opinions about Maori without getting hammered. I know exactly where you're coming from. I doubt You'd get far with the complaints process as the maori language being 'injected' into mainstream is more than likely part of the goverment's way of adhering to a mandate to preserve 'Maori' language & culture.(I want to keep this thread mostly to the subject of language tho)
From my personal perspective (being 7/16ths Maori extraction,4.5/16ths Irish & 4.5/16ths English(I've worked it out lol) I like seeing it injected into the mainstream subtley. I object to too much as I can't understand it(my own ignorance & choice). I would like to see it continue but not be so obtrusive ie just the odd choice 'practical everyday' word here & there just to raise the profile a little without being overbearing. I think it helps to foster a gentle integration of Maori language into mainstream NZ-ers hearts as the maori culture struggles a lot with the PR side of things (because of reasons we all know eg disproportionate crime/economic/media respresentation etc). I can't help thinking that it may help to slowly 'soften' a mainstream that so quickly closes it's mind on anything Maori and maybe just the slow start of people coming to acknowledge and accept a culture & history unique to only New Zealand 'OUR COUNTRY'.
probably dreaming... but from my comments you can hopefully see a little bit of what many other Maori kiwis hope for. It's frustrating being in the middle sometimes when You see both sides fucking it up, but a distinct advantage of being 'in the middle' is that I can truly see/acknowledge and understand both 'sides' where sometimes either sides can't or won't. I am a kiwi with multiple heritage and culture. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Maori language week only runs for 1 week(2% of the year) I will drop it after that.
Thanks all for You kind & respectful comments and a bit of humor never goes astry to keep things light.
Naku Iti Nei(Yours sincerely/humbly) 750Y
oh & FireFight...
wtf? man i am only reading these sayings off a greetings/farewells card i got given at work LOL 8-)

[duckman]

Some excellent points Dave. Well worth taking on board. :Punk:

[Posh Tourer :P]

From my personal perspective (being 7/16ths Maori extraction,4.5/16ths Irish & 4.5/16ths English(I've worked it out lol)
oh & FireFight...
wtf? man i am only reading these sayings off a greetings/farewells card i got given at work LOL 8-)

You really should make that 9/32ths Irish and English and 14/32ths Maori :D

I agree re FF. "Dave, my friend, we ...... first?" is the best translation I can get. What does eke mean?

[750Y]

You really should make that 9/32ths Irish and English and 14/32ths Maori :D...

yeah my maths is crap (1+1 = 11 lol), i guess i'm roughly half maori & quarter irish/english (or half european). my mrs is full dutch so imagine what my kids are? i don't even wanna think about that, lol

[Posh Tourer :P]

yeah my maths is crap (1+1 = 11 lol), i guess i'm roughly half maori & quarter irish/english (or half european). my mrs is full dutch so imagine what my kids are? i don't even wanna think about that, lol

9/64ths each of English and Irish, 7/32ths Maori and 1/2 Dutch. Or to put that in consistent fractions, 9/64ths English, 9/64ths Irish, 14/64ths Maori, and 32/64ths Dutch

I was more taking issue with your 4.5/16ths, which = 9/32ths. 4.5/16ths is not a "correct" fraction