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vifferman
28th July 2004, 14:20
Yeah, I know this has already been semi-reviewed by wkid-one, but I'm bored at work. So here goes...

History
The VTR1000 was released in 1997 (my model's year), presumably in response to the success of the Ducati 900 SS. Unfortunately, the Suzuki TL1000S was released at the same time, stealing much of Honda's thunder.
The VTR was mainly developed in the US, probably due to the popularity of the Honda Hawk, which was a 650cc v-twin with a single-sided swingarm and alloy perimeter frame. The prototype SuperHawk bears a distinct resemblance to this model, but (fortunately) the production model was slightly different and less stodgy looking.

Innovations
Compared to the TL1000, the Honda is somewhat middle-of-the-road, lacking the EFI, USD forks and (fortunately) the rotary damper rear suspension. It also has an engine in a lower state of tune (~100HP compared to the Suzi's ~125), and slightly tamer steering dynamics: slightly longer wheelbase, less steep caster angle, slightly more trail, but some would argue this makes it easier to ride. It certainly has a reputation as a good all-rounder, compared to the 'hooligan' TL.
Some firsts on the VTR included pannier-mounted dual radiators (also found on the VFR800), engine-case mounted swingarm pivots, the largest valves fitted to a Honda engine, and the largest carbs.

Updates
The VTR has been in production virtually unchanged since 1997, which sort of goes against Honda's normal policy of regular model changes every 4 years. In 2001, it did get a larger tank (up 3 litres to 19l), revised handlebar geometry (more on that later), a semi-digital dash, minor revision of the front suspension, better security, and few other unimportant cosmetic changes. In response to market pressures (and the RC45 being whipped by the Ducati in WSB), the SP1 (RC51 in US market) was released to provide a bike for production racing.

The ride
The Firestorm is an easy bike to ride, having no particular vices. It will pop the front wheel in the air on acceleration, but is not especially prone to headshake (and therefore tank-slappers), due to the aforementioned moderate steering geometry. All is not bliss, however, as it has less than perfect ergonomics, with a stretch to the 'bars, odd clip-on angle and a seat that becomes rather brick-like on long rides. It is also rather overgeared, and cruising at 100 km/h feels more comfortable in 4th gear than in 6th. However, this long-leggedness makes it a very relaxed tourer, as it never seems particularly busy, and is happy to be short-shifted at the torque peak rather than revved out through the gears.
When pushed, the "tuned flex" frame (due to the engine-mounted swingarm, which is a bit lightweight) can be felt working, but it's interesting rather than alarming...
The half-fairing gives pretty reasonable wind protection, although fitting an aftermarket screen blade is popular. Apart from not being tinted like the one on my VFR, I actually like the screen on mine, as the wind blast hits me high in the chest, taking some weight off my wrists. Being lower compared to the VFR, it also results in less wind noise. However, the first time I rode a VTR (in '97), I noted that this also directs wind down your front, if your jacket collar isn't fastened. Good in summer, I guess, as long as there's no bees innit....
Another problem is the suspension is definitely on the budget side, having only preload and rebound adjustment at both ends (no compression damping adjustment). Furthermore, the front end is undersprung and the back oversprung for the average rider. (Doesn't bother me much, as I'm below average :D ).
As standard, the brakes are marginal, as the front feels a bit spongey, and the brake brake is wooden and next to useless (made up for by excellent engine-braking).
Fuel range is pathetic; commuting mine does less than 30 mpg, and I'm lucky to get 125km before the Red Light Of Doom glares at me.
Gear changes are typical Honda, with a clunk into second gear (avoidable by clutchless shifting or changing while under power or at high revs), and false neutrals on high-kilometerage examples. Gear ratios are fine, apart from overall gearing being way too high.

Reliability
The VTR is generally fairly worry-free, more reliable than Ducatis (if uglier) but does have a few weaknesses.

Camchain tensioner - I dunno why Honda doesn't fit all of its bikes with gear-driven cams, because they're crap at camchains. The VTR can lunch an automatic tensioner spring in as few as 6000 km, probably due to chain whip, and the excessive back-pressure caused by engine-braking. The front cylinder is most prone to this, with the usual result being that the camchain jumps the camwheel and the valves and piston 'catastrophically interfere with another' (i.e., :buggerd: )
Wreck-you-later/Rectumfrier - this is too small, and put in a dumb position (too hot). Could last 10 years or 1 (mine lasted 6 or so).
Clutch - sometimes prone to slipping and/or grabbing. And squealing like a stuck pig. Easily fixed by fitting Barnett springs, or by not doing hard takeoffs. The slave cylinder seal sometimes leaks if not maintained.
Other issues are not peculiar to VTRs or to Hondas, so not worth mentioning. For example, V-twins use a bit of oil, apparently. (Saves it getting dirty, I guess...)

Mods
Here are some of the current mods made to my bike, and the reasons for 'em.

American Performance Engineering manual camchain tensioners: Honda tensioners are crap, and my engine had already eaten one pair of valves before I bought it.
New Throttle Postion Sensor (TPS): The TPS has a bakelite (plastic) body, and is not too hard to break if not aligned properly when reassembling the carbs. I broke mine when adjusting the TPS to the recommended value (considerably different to stock). :doh:
Mufflers bafflectomied and plugged: The mufflers had been vandalised when I bought the bike, and were VERY LOUD!! I had some plugs made to quieten them down a lot and make 'em look standard. Still sounds OK, with a lurvly rumble on deceleration.
Dynojet kit: Bafflectomy made the carburetion too lean.
Custom Unifilter: Cheaper than stock airfilter, flows more air,easily maintained.
Shimmed needles: See two previous items.
New beefier R/R: OEM one failed, and was too wussy, so I replaced it with a heavy-duty one and rewired the charging system to eliminate plugs.
90/130W headlight: Stock one too wussy.
GenMar handlebar risers: I have arthritic joints, and the standard clip-ons are too low, putting too much weight on my wrists around town. These raise the 'bars 19mm - just right.
15-tooth countershaft sprocket: Standard gearing is too high, especially commuting. This gives heaps more apparent torque (and apparent speed...) It also accelerates chain wear, so next chain/sprocket change I'll put a 16T back on and a 43T rear instead.
Shortened drivechain: The 15T sprocket meant the wheelbase was longer, and I was nearly out of chain adjustment. Taking two links out shortened the wheelbase a lot, meaning that in conjunction with the sprocket, wheelies are more common. Ooops....
Braided brakelines (X2): Improved feel of the front brakes, and made bleeding easier (OEM lines have a junction and rise where bubbles gather).
No back mudguard: Looks?!? (I didn't do it, and my back gets sprayed with shit when it rains).
Fork tubes raised through the stanchions, for improved steering response (shortened wheelbase helps this too).
Fitted voltmeter/clock/laptimer: To monitor the ergs and the passage of time.
Future Probable Mods
Santa (or is that Satan?!?), could you please bring me (because my wife won't let me have them):
- A hugger rear guard, to keep the crap off my boots and rear shock and bag.
- New fork springs
- An Ohlins rear shock (dream on!!)
- A pair of aftermarket cans (Micron?): summat that sounds noisy and nice, but which are still legal :shifty:
- A modified seat (one with foam instead of wood).

Summary
A nice all-rounder; not the best or most powerful I've ridden, but plenty of fun, and with enough character to stop me getting bored. Certainly good value for money, and with a few mods, a pretty good ride.
This is the sixth bike I've owned, and I've had it almost a year. During that time it's been used for almost daily commuting, with only a couple of longish rides. It's let me down only a few times: when the R/R (and battery) died, when I ran out of gas, and when I punctured the (new) rear tyre.

jimbo600
28th July 2004, 14:32
Good write up Firestormer. Convince MarkNZ to buy another one.

wkid_one
28th July 2004, 15:26
We forgot one of the key problems with the VTR's and that is the coolant leak - which Honda freely acknowledge. This was rectified on the 1999+ models. Mine bike was thankfully nearly completely trouble free (apart from shaking a wire loose that caused it to only fire on one cylinder).

I agree entirely - thoroughly easy bike to ride and enjoy.

vifferman
28th July 2004, 15:34
We forgot one of the key problems with the VTR's and that is the coolant leak - which Honda freely acknowledge. This was rectified on the 1999+ models.Ehhh... hadn't heard of that one on the VTR forums I frequent, and haven't experienced it myself.
I also didn't mention the "Phark you - I don't like water and I'm not going out in that shite!!" problem that arose whenever I tried to ride it in the rain. On the SuperHawk forum, someone else mentioned misfiring on his VTR was due to a crack in the rubber boot on one sparkplug. Sure enough, mine had a hole/crack in the front boot and when I replaced the cap ($49!!) it seemed to cure its fear of water. Just as well - riding a badly misfiring FireStorm in a rainstorm is one of my least favourite activities.:crazy:

bungbung
28th July 2004, 16:07
no coolant leak mmmkay (yet)
no wet weather issues

new ebc discs and pads at front still using factory lines, fantastic.
replaced cct for front cylinder

I agree with the front suspension comments, I'm big enough that the back isn't oversprung. wkid's comments in a prior thread about racetech internals might be a way to go. The stock front springs are about twice as soft as they need to be.

Racey Rider
28th July 2004, 16:15
So have any of you riden the TL?

Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
Or do you not have a preferance?

bungbung
28th July 2004, 16:44
I haven't ridden a TL. When I bought my VTR it was much cheaper than the nearest TL, still had there been one about for the same money I would definitely considered it.

vifferman
28th July 2004, 16:45
So have any of you riden the TL?
No, but I'd very much like to. I like the way they look (apart from the bodgey looking fairing stays), the way they sound, and the extra HPs would be good.


Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
Or do you not have a preferance?See above. I think the VTR looks a bit wrong, and power is good.
However, they sell for more than the VTR, so if I saw one for the same money as a VTR, it'd be a good buy.

vifferman
28th July 2004, 16:51
new ebc discs and pads at front still using factory lines, fantastic.Bungbung - you really should think about braided lines. They don't improve the power, but the feel is vastly improved. Prolly the best thing I've done to the VTR (apart from the R/R - if I hadn't done that, the bike would be in the gargre).

I agree with the front suspension comments, I'm big enough that the back isn't oversprung. wkid's comments in a prior thread about racetech internals might be a way to go. The stock front springs are about twice as soft as they need to be.Actually, mine is fine compared to previous bikes, and I've got the settings about as good as they get. The previous owner (who was much lighter'n me), had it set up WAY too stiff. I've now got it with one notch of preload at the rear, stuff all in the front, and some minimalistic damping as per recommendations on the UK firestorm site. I suspect if I changed the fork erl it would probably revolutionise the front end, and I'm OK with the back end as is.

wkid_one
28th July 2004, 18:32
You will find that the factory standard front fork springs are suited to someone who weighs about 56kg - this is a fact, not bullshit - tested by Race Tech. Front spring replacements with progressives is singularly the best suspension upgrade you can do

Marknz
28th July 2004, 19:18
Good write up Firestormer. Convince MarkNZ to buy another one.

:whistle:

Yup, and mine would be Matt Black with...

MRA full tint double bubble screen
Yellow Goodrich Braided lines front and rear
GC Carbon Fibre hugger
Leo Vinci or Micron Carbon Fibre Pipes
Ventura Rack and Bag

;)

spudchucka
28th July 2004, 21:18
So have any of you riden the TL?

Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
Or do you not have a preferance?
I've owned both a 2000 VTR and a 1999 TLS. They are both great but I'm afriad that my vote goes to the TL. Primarily because I always found the fork springs to be too soft on the VTR and the constant bottoming out really pissed me off, I don't think I've ever bottomed out the front end on the TL. Another reason I favour the TL is simply because of the additional rush of power. When I first rode my TL I couldn't believe how different it was to the VTR, I'd always thought they would be quite similar but they aren't. The VTR is an easier bike to ride and will never catch you unawares, the TL on the other hand can be a brute, especially at low revs in 1st or 2nd gear corners.

vifferman
29th July 2004, 08:25
I've owned both a 2000 VTR and a 1999 TLS. They are both great but I'm afriad that my vote goes to the TL. Primarily because I always found the fork springs to be too soft on the VTR and the constant bottoming out really pissed me off, I don't think I've ever bottomed out the front end on the TL. Another reason I favour the TL is simply because of the additional rush of power. When I first rode my TL I couldn't believe how different it was to the VTR, I'd always thought they would be quite similar but they aren't. The VTR is an easier bike to ride and will never catch you unawares, the TL on the other hand can be a brute, especially at low revs in 1st or 2nd gear corners.Well, that's pretty much what I thought would be the case.
The front suspension thing is easily fixed with some Racetech or Progressive springs. Having said that, I don't think I've ever bottomed my forks out, so maybe they don't have stock springs?? Like I said, I think they'd be fine with a flush out and some new oil.
But to give the VTR the same sort of power as the TL is not an easy thing, and requires $$ (higher compression pistons, new cams, extensive rejetting, full zorst system, etc. etc.) Easier to just buy a different bike, like the TL or an SP1/2/3. Or a 996/998/999....

bungbung
29th July 2004, 08:47
Stock rider weighs 56kg eh?

That'll be my problem then, I'm double 56kg...

spudchucka
29th July 2004, 19:06
Well, that's pretty much what I thought would be the case.
The front suspension thing is easily fixed with some Racetech or Progressive springs. Having said that, I don't think I've ever bottomed my forks out, so maybe they don't have stock springs?? Like I said, I think they'd be fine with a flush out and some new oil.
But to give the VTR the same sort of power as the TL is not an easy thing, and requires $$ (higher compression pistons, new cams, extensive rejetting, full zorst system, etc. etc.) Easier to just buy a different bike, like the TL or an SP1/2/3. Or a 996/998/999....
I loved my VTR but that was the one thing that irked me.

One other difference I forgot to mention is the slipper clutch on the TL. I actually prefered the VTR without the slipper clutch because I like the strong engine braking. The only down side was the chatter when you are really stamping down through the gears.

scroter
30th July 2004, 15:44
if i woke up with an inny instead of an outty then i might be able to enjoy the VTR but alas my balls are just to big and i need a bike to match and sorry guys the VTR is just too boring for me. Now th TL thats a different story. It has attitude you know the one that says dont phuck with me.

Admittedly the VTR is a good easy bike to ride and would suit a lot of people. a real do anything go anywhere kind of ride. and the TL well the motor makes up for its absolutley shite suspenders. these are two very differnt bikes but have been compared so many times. ones a sports tourer the others a sports bike. They also atrract different riders. both good bikes sales prove it.

Most sales 1997 - TL1000S
Most sales 1998 - VTR1000

vifferman
30th July 2004, 15:47
if i woke up with an inny instead of an outty then i might be able to enjoy the VTR but alas my balls are just to big and i need a bike to match So, Mr Scroter - do you have a specially modified seat to accommodate your danglers, or do you just sit side-saddle?

simo
4th August 2004, 15:27
I tested a new VTR 1000 in April this year, and it just didn't have the getup and go that the TL1000 (1999) had, the TL sounded awesome, handles OK, needs the Ohlins conversion though, some braided stoppy tubes and some decent pads would compliment the setup.

vifferman
4th August 2004, 15:34
I tested a new VTR 1000 in April this year, and it just didn't have the getup and go that the TL1000 (1999) had, the TL sounded awesome, handles OK, needs the Ohlins conversion though, some braided stoppy tubes and some decent pads would compliment the setup.You'll have to give me a ride sometime, Simo.
Or perhaps not... maybe that would make me sad.. or envious... or just disgruntled....

simo
4th August 2004, 15:57
I dyno'ed the TL and it turned up 107BHP at the back wheel, but the VTR is claimed at 102, it seemed more like 90-95, it was that different in useable power 3000-8000rpm, the TL just jumps out of the blocks in this rev range the VTR just cruised. The TL is a handful at low speed etc, but can live with that. :ride:

vifferman
4th August 2004, 16:10
I dyno'ed the TL and it turned up 107BHP at the back wheel, but the VTR is claimed at 102, it seemed more like 90-95, it was that different in useable power 3000-8000rpm, the TL just jumps out of the blocks in this rev range the VTR just cruised. The TL is a handful at low speed etc, but can live with that. :ride:Yeah, stock VTRs are under 100 RWHP, and even a well-sorted one is less than 110. Like I said, to get really serious power, you're up for pistons, rods, cams, serious rejetting, full race zorst, and then a serious limitation is the cases, which apparently can't handle more than about 120hp. Like I said, less trouble to buy summat else if you want the power.
But the VTR is easy to ride, and you can get some serious fun out of it with a bit of tinkering (like spending the difference in purchase price between the VTR and TL on regearing, a jet kit, and suspension mods.) Even spending $40 on a 15-tooth sprocket makes a huge difference!

wkid_one
4th August 2004, 16:12
Only thing I don't like about the TL-S is its tendancy to not like any throttle imput mid corner shown by its desire to want to stand up - it seems to me, whilst it came out with a 190 rear tyre - it doesn't in fact ride like it should have one!

It also rides like it carries, like its big brother the TLR, a lot of weight HIGH UP, and I found it was more brutal in the set up to corners. The TLR is an absolute bitch to set up properly for suspension - but once done it is a dream other than the feeling the high CoG gives you.

Whilst the TL's need Ohlins suspension - the VTR is in DIRE need of new front springs and it is shockingly (yes, gr8 pun I know) undersprung in the front - and this is accentuated by being over sprung in the rear for any but the heavier riders (ie Bung Bung and me) - which pushes even more weight on the already over worked front springs.

On a personal level - I prefer the sound of the VTR to the TL. The TL's sound too cammy - where the VTR seems to have captured more of the Ducati sound.

Would love to ride a TL (with Ohlins rear) and VTR (with at least 0.87kg/cm2 front end) side by side - which would be difficult to do really - I guess I would need to ride them one after the other I suppose.

What you need to remember is that the TL is better compared with the SP as the VTR is classed a sports tourer in real world riding terms. However - the SP is GROSSLY overpriced new, meaning the TL always got better sales figures.

Out of all of them - I would buy the SP (preferably the 2) as it has the Honda quality and renouned ease of ride, with a bit more horsepower.

http://www.roadracers.co.uk/bikes/hon-sp1-2002.jpg

However - if I had the money (and desire) I would buy the Ducati 916 Senna in Gun Metal Gray

http://www.bikez.com/bike/1215/index.jpg (http://fcx(this.href);/)

Eddieb
4th August 2004, 17:37
:whistle:

Yup, and mine would be Matt Black with...

MRA full tint double bubble screen
Yellow Goodrich Braided lines front and rear
GC Carbon Fibre hugger
Leo Vinci or Micron Carbon Fibre Pipes
Ventura Rack and Bag

;)

The better half has one, Gloss black
Braided lines front (and I think rear)
2 Brothers pipes
Dyno jet kit
K & N
Aftermarket bellypan
Ventura rack & bag
Rear seat cover

It sounds very sweet.

Morepower
5th September 2004, 01:22
Only thing I don't like about the TL-S is its tendancy to not like any throttle imput mid corner shown by its desire to want to stand up - it seems to me, whilst it came out with a 190 rear tyre - it doesn't in fact ride like it should have one!



Ihave tried both 180 and 190 and the 190 is my choice much more confidence inspiring at full lean. I have an Ohlins shock and its easier in the corners now. only understeers now when the front wheel is in the air !

Dave

hondav2
19th September 2004, 22:38
I have had my VTR for neary 3 years now, agree with all your comments. I was going to get a SP2 until I read a comparison road test with a CBR1000RR and bought the CBR. The VTR is a bike you have to ride, whereas the CBR is so easy to ride . You only have to sit on it and it duz everything for you. I dont know if I will sell the VTR as its a good hack and has character. Cheers Toddy

That Guy
23rd September 2004, 14:47
Firestormer - great review. You certainly know them well (good at technical help on them too :cool: )

Agree with other comments in the thread too. I have a VTR as well.

It's a great road bike.

I would say its worst point is handling. Not just softish forks, but overall it is too big and heavy, and has a long wheelbase (at least it feels like it). The engine makes a nicer torque wave than it does hoarsepower - in fact with a point and squirt kind of riding style you can keep up with some 'proper' sports bikes pretty easily. It just doesn't like high corner speeds - starts to wallow a bit and and doesn't change direction very quickly. Ride a modern 600 then get off and back onto the VTR and it feels like a harley! That's being a bit mean - it's better than that. However given its intended application (ie sports-touring) then I think it hits the mark very well. If you are finding it's limits on the road you are probably going too quickly anyway.

My other criticism is that under hard braking the front will lock relatively easily. It's almost as if it doesn't pitch enough weight onto the front wheel - rather it puts it weight behind the front wheel and pushes it. I must lock the front once or twice every 1000kms. I think part of the problem is I am used to much better braking (and handling too for that matter I guess) from my race bike RGV. You wouldn't want to ride down to Hawkes Bay from Auckland (like I do) in a day on an RGV though - this sort of distance (550 kms or so) is where the VTR shines.

I find I can do 200kms on a tank and by then I'm ready for a break anyway so that suits me. The gearing is too high though so definately agree with putting a tooth or two more on the rear.

I got mine new with Scorpion pipes (almost too loud actually), pack rack, and new boots too for $14600 which I reckon is very good value; in fact one of their best points. Second hand they are good value too.

Great road bike, just don't expect a great track bike.

vifferman
23rd September 2004, 15:12
Firestormer - great review. You certainly know them well (good at technical help on them too :cool: ):o :whistle: Shucks - tweren't nuttin. Too much time on my hands spent interwebbing instead of working. Wish I'd done all the research before I bought my VTR though...


I would say its worst point is handling. Not just softish forks, but overall it is too big and heavy, and has a long wheelbase (at least it feels like it). It's only about 15mm (IIRC) longer than the TL, with slightly more rake. Or at least mine was; it's now about the same wheelbase, and with the forks dropped through the triples it's now similar.
The handling / weight thing is relative. I came off SluttyFartBlast - a 1990 VFR750, so compared to that, it feels very sporty. In fact, I rode a VFR800 and VTR back-to-back around Puke, and the VTR drops into the corners far more readily than the VFR. Tyres have a lot to do widdit too: the Azaro AV49-SP on the front of mine makes it feel MUCH lighter than the Pirelli Dragon that was on there did. Nearly fell off (well, not really) when the new boots went on - it tipped into corners without even thinking about it.

The engine makes a nicer torque wave than it does hoarsepower - in fact with a point and squirt kind of riding style you can keep up with some 'proper' sports bikes pretty easily. It feels very lazy, and so it's not tiring to ride.

It just doesn't like high corner speeds - starts to wallow a bit and and doesn't change direction very quickly. I'll have to take your word for it, as I've never done any high-speed riding on it, although the aforementioned test ride at Puke topped an indicated 230km/h.

Ride a modern 600 then get off and back onto the VTR and it feels like a harley! That's being a bit mean - it's better than that. Like I said - it's all relative. And the design's old - it's essentially unchanged from it's inception over 7 years ago! Technology's marched on since then, and Honda hasn't done the 4-yearly model update with it, probably because it's essentially a US bike, and it's been successful as it is.

My other criticism is that under hard braking the front will lock relatively easily. It's almost as if it doesn't pitch enough weight onto the front wheel - rather it puts it weight behind the front wheel and pushes it. That's a fairly astute observation. Wonder if different front suspenders'll fix that?

The gearing is too high though so definately agree with putting a tooth or two more on the rear. Yeah, that really revolutionises it, and would do the same for most bikes, which are overgeared for economy/emissions testing/noise reasons. I was cheap, and went down a tooth on the front, which makes the drivechain VERY noisy, so it'll probably be ferked relatively quickly.


I got mine new with Scorpion pipes (almost too loud actually), pack rack, and new boots too for $14600 which I reckon is very good value; in fact one of their best points. Second hand they are good value too.
Great road bike, just don't expect a great track bike.That's a bloody good price! Id've(Id've?!? :rolleyes: ) I'd have lurved some aftermarket cans, but the accountant/wife would've been more'n slightly unhappy about that...
I can't honestly say I LOVE my VTR. I'm quite happy with it. It's not the best bike I've ever ridden, and not the favourite of those I've owned, and it's probably not the most sensible or appropriate bike for me. But it has enough character to make it likeable, without being too hard to live with.
After 13? 14? months of ownership, it's grown on me a bit.

manuboy
23rd September 2004, 15:20
:o :whistle: Shucks - tweren't nuttin. Too much time on my hands spent interwebbing instead of working.

Dude - i agree with That Guy, you definitely know your VTR stuff... come ride the SV round for a week and do a write up for it! i wanna read that!
:yes:

Cajun
23rd September 2004, 15:27
:o :whistle: Shucks - tweren't nuttin. Too much time on my hands spent interwebbing instead of working. Wish I'd done all the research before I bought my VTR though...

It's only about 15mm (IIRC) longer than the TL, with slightly more rake. Or at least mine was; it's now about the same wheelbase, and with the forks dropped through the triples it's now similar.
The handling / weight thing is relative. I came off SluttyFartBlast - a 1990 VFR750, so compared to that, it feels very sporty. In fact, I rode a VFR800 and VTR back-to-back around Puke, and the VTR drops into the corners far more readily than the VFR. Tyres have a lot to do widdit too: the Azaro AV49-SP on the front of mine makes it feel MUCH lighter than the Pirelli Dragon that was on there did. Nearly fell off (well, not really) when the new boots went on - it tipped into corners without even thinking about it.
It feels very lazy, and so it's not tiring to ride.
I'll have to take your word for it, as I've never done any high-speed riding on it, although the aforementioned test ride at Puke topped an indicated 230km/h.
Like I said - it's all relative. And the design's old - it's essentially unchanged from it's inception over 7 years ago! Technology's marched on since then, and Honda hasn't done the 4-yearly model update with it, probably because it's essentially a US bike, and it's been successful as it is.
That's a fairly astute observation. Wonder if different front suspenders'll fix that?
Yeah, that really revolutionises it, and would do the same for most bikes, which are overgeared for economy/emissions testing/noise reasons. I was cheap, and went down a tooth on the front, which makes the drivechain VERY noisy, so it'll probably be ferked relatively quickly.

That's a bloody good price! Id've(Id've?!? :rolleyes: ) I'd have lurved some aftermarket cans, but the accountant/wife would've been more'n slightly unhappy about that...
I can't honestly say I LOVE my VTR. I'm quite happy with it. It's not the best bike I've ever ridden, and not the favourite of those I've owned, and it's probably not the most sensible or appropriate bike for me. But it has enough character to make it likeable, without being too hard to live with.
After 13? 14? months of ownership, it's grown on me a bit.


My wife loves her vtr she had it 2 years. once she stops loving it she well sell it

That Guy
23rd September 2004, 15:27
That Guy, That there Guy There, That Guy Again still etc. That's funny. I laffed and laffed.

Anyway yeah - its a good bike you can't really complain, and you know deep down it does everything you need and you shouldn't complain. But I agree, I'm not in lurve with it. Grow on me it may but it ain't never going to light up my y-fronts so to speak.

I reckon my history will record my bike ownership as:

Owned VTR. Good bike. Nice bike. Good VTR. Nice Practicle bike.Sold VTR.
Owned (TBC). Mad bike. Not neccessary. Turns like a mad thing. Too much power. Y-fronts caught on fire. Goody.

vifferman
23rd September 2004, 16:07
That Guy, That there Guy There, That Guy Again still etc. That's funny. I laffed and laffed. You really meant: "Talk about laugh!! I nearly started..."


Anyway yeah - its a good bike you can't really complain, and you know deep down it does everything you need and you shouldn't complain. But I agree, I'm not in lurve with it. Grow on me it may but it ain't never going to light up my y-fronts so to speak. Is that why you're selling it? To fund your addiction for hot undies?
Keep the VTR - sell the slippers and helicopter instead.

spudchucka
24th September 2004, 14:26
On a personal level - I prefer the sound of the VTR to the TL. The TL's sound too cammy - where the VTR seems to have captured more of the Ducati sound.
You obviously haven't heard a TL with a Yoshimura Titanium 2 - 1 and a Neptune muffler. (insert Tim the tool man grunts here) :Punk: :Punk:

vifferman
24th September 2004, 14:41
You obviously haven't heard a TL with a Yoshimura Titanium 2 - 1 and a Neptune muffler. (insert Tim the tool man grunts here) :Punk: :Punk: Neither have I, but I can almost imagine it.
Personally, I disagree with ThatManThere; I think the TL sounds more like the Ducati in that it has a similar whine to the bevel gears on the Ducati, and for that reason, I prefer the TL sound. On the other hand, the mechanical clatter of my abused VTR is starting to sound like the rattly dry clutch of a Ducati Superlight....

Teflon
9th October 2004, 18:47
Another good write up about the storm.

http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559

tlronny
13th October 2004, 11:38
Ive owned both ('97 TL and an '02 VTR) and can say that the TL had way more character,was way faster but had a scary rear shock and the VTR was a typical Honda except with shit forks and poor power however saying that, they were both good bikes but in different ways. :love2:

scroter
13th October 2004, 13:04
So, Mr Scroter - do you have a specially modified seat to accommodate your danglers, or do you just sit side-saddle?

i have since ridden the 03 VTR with the upgraded forks and 19l tank. wow what a difference absolutley fantastic. the old one felt boring but the new one is good

vifferman
13th October 2004, 13:23
i have since ridden the 03 VTR with the upgraded forks and 19l tank. wow what a difference absolutley fantastic. the old one felt boring but the new one is goodANswer the question! :mad: What about the danglers!:spudwhat:

Teflon
13th October 2004, 15:43
Ive owned both ('97 TL and an '02 VTR) and can say that the TL had way more character,was way faster but had a scary rear shock and the VTR was a typical Honda except with shit forks and poor power however saying that, they were both good bikes but in different ways. :love2:

Yeah, i love the TL as well. I personally think the TL handles a lot better with 180 on the rear.

If i didn't have the supension done on my VTR i probaly have a brought a TL.
I find the VTR is enough for the road and very forgiving. I have ridden bikes like the busa, R1, and found them to have to much horsepower for the road.

tlronny
14th October 2004, 06:10
Yea - i tried a 180 on mine too and it was better for tipping in but 'cause it was a crap Shinko it started vibrating etc going over 200 kph
I put .95kg/mm Racetech fork springs in the VTR and that made a huge difference to the handling but it was still a boring bike (to me) :(

Morepower
25th October 2004, 22:22
Yeah, i love the TL as well. I personally think the TL handles a lot better with 180 on the rear.

If i didn't have the supension done on my VTR i probaly have a brought a TL.
I find the VTR is enough for the road and very forgiving. I have ridden bikes like the busa, R1, and found them to have to much horsepower for the road.

I dont realy feel much difference between the 180 and 190 until at near full lean then the 190's just a bit more predictable. I wont go back to a 180.
Throwing away the rotary shock is a transformation for the TL put them back on the Morris Minors where they belong :wavey:

Teflon
13th December 2004, 21:02
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5533&stc=1

Nearly hit 110,000 k's.

Took it for a top speed run down collins road today, 255ish with no screen, so could be looking at 260 with a screen. Gearing is - 15 tooth frnt 42 rear, hasn't really effected top speed from standard (quite suprised).

These motors are solid. Seen any TLS with this many k's?.

tlronny
22nd December 2004, 05:23
How does that gearing differ from standard ?
Could affect that readind I reckon ?
:yes:

Teflon
24th December 2004, 13:02
How does that gearing differ from standard ?
Could affect that readind I reckon ?
:yes:

I geared it down ( 1 tooth fr, 2 rear ). I've had about 260 with standard gearing ( confirmed with mate on zx9 ) if i remember correctly wasn't redline.

Yeah the speedo would be reading faster, not sure what the true speed would be, have to go for a ride with somone or get a digital pushbike speedo.

Have you ridden a import VTR?. Friend of mine just brought a 98 with 2,000 on the clock, it's totally different to mine to ride, a lot slower, and sounds real anemic. Does anyone know of possible restrictions?, checked the intakes no restriction plates, swaped the cdi's no difference; Cdi off his bike has a extra pink wire.

So im thinking carbs and exhausts.

gav
25th December 2004, 20:24
Decided I could be interested in a s/h VTRthou, seen a few of these Jap import models around, are they a different spec to the first 97 VTR's sold in NZ, is there a year in particular to go? Are the later model ones much different? Should I look at a TLS?

marty
25th December 2004, 20:59
i'd go the TL, but then i'm biased. i actually preferred the VFR to the VTR.

gav
25th December 2004, 22:54
That lower fairing on your bike looks pretty good!! Who makes them? Fit OK?

Teflon
26th December 2004, 06:47
Decided I could be interested in a s/h VTRthou, seen a few of these Jap import models around, are they a different spec to the first 97 VTR's sold in NZ, is there a year in particular to go? Are the later model ones much different? Should I look at a TLS?

Those imports are alot different. The power is the first thing i notice, amount of abuse you have to use to even mono the think is crazy. With standard pipes it sounds really anemic, like a GN250. Chucked my yoshis on, no better, just a loud hollow anemic noise.

VTR i have is fun, had to drop the front about a inch, and made a 6mm spacer for the rear shock to achieve this.

Just stay away from the imports, you wont go wrong.

Yoda
15th September 2005, 12:04
Hi,

Where did you get the GenMar risers? I need some for a 98 cbr1000fv. Are they available in NZ somewhere?

Cheers

danmason
21st July 2008, 19:16
Those imports are alot different. The power is the first thing i notice, amount of abuse you have to use to even mono the think is crazy. With standard pipes it sounds really anemic, like a GN250. Chucked my yoshis on, no better, just a loud hollow anemic noise.

VTR i have is fun, had to drop the front about a inch, and made a 6mm spacer for the rear shock to achieve this.

Just stay away from the imports, you wont go wrong.

I bought an import model, dealer said it was the same but I was not sure. He said if I take the baffles out of the pipes it would be the same as the NZ new model I tried out.
I rang the importer who confirmed my suspicions, Jap import version has

-milder cams, different CDI, restricted to 180.

I went back to the dealer and swapped for the first bike I tried and oh my god, totally different experience

Jap import models are a lot less powerful

Salival
11th September 2008, 20:46
I'm certainly plumbing the depths of the review forum here...

Great review though, FireStormer, if you're still around. Hats off to you. Too often if we actually own a piece of equipment we're inclined to 'talk it up', but this review is very honest and thoroughly worthy of a read if you're considering a FireStorm.

On that topic, I will be purchasing one of these this weekend. A 2000 model, so it has the smaller tank (which I'm not thrilled about but will live with). The information regarding the fuel efficiency is quite confusing - I have read as little as 19mpg, but I imagine that's around town and as I'm not commuting on it I think the extra fuel cost is worth it for the noise it makes!

Again, thanks and I hope to be seeing you guys at a group ride soon enough so you can show me how it's done!

Cheers,
Ben.

NighthawkNZ
11th September 2008, 21:04
On that topic, I will be purchasing one of these this weekend. A 2000 model, so it has the smaller tank (which I'm not thrilled about but will live with). The information regarding the fuel efficiency is quite confusing - I have read as little as 19mpg, but I imagine that's around town and as I'm not commuting on it I think the extra fuel cost is worth it for the noise it makes!


Depends on your riding style, if you ride the Storm hard then yes it will suck the gas back... ride a little more conservative then the range is better... Open the throttle... listen to that sound, feel the torque, watch the fuel be sucked backed...

Admittedly... the big V-Twin is addictive and can be hard to ride it conservatively alllllll the time. :shifty:

Salival
11th September 2008, 21:11
I can be pretty conservative when I have to be (ie any time the reserve light comes on ;) )

Dino
11th September 2008, 21:14
There is a bit of info from guys about the fuel economy here
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=80925

The best I have got is 5.3 litres - 100kms

.

Salival
12th September 2008, 08:12
^ which is totally respectable, really, but yours is an '07 yeah? So probably plenty more tech involved over the 2000 model!

Thanks for the link :)

NighthawkNZ
12th September 2008, 08:31
^ which is totally respectable, really, but yours is an '07 yeah? So probably plenty more tech involved over the 2000 model!

Thanks for the link :)


Not really they haven't really upgraded much since...

Morcs
12th September 2008, 09:56
Only thing I don't like about the TL-S is its tendancy to not like any throttle imput mid corner shown by its desire to want to stand up - it seems to me, whilst it came out with a 190 rear tyre - it doesn't in fact ride like it should have one!
Nah. just learn to ride it. with the torque it has, you can keep the throttle relatively even through the corner, easing it on after the apex, and as soon as you are almost upright, give it a handful and ya stomping away



It also rides like it carries, like its big brother the TLR, a lot of weight HIGH UP, and I found it was more brutal in the set up to corners. The TLR is an absolute bitch to set up properly for suspension - but once done it is a dream other than the feeling the high CoG gives you.
High COG? holy shit. I sat on a bandit 1200 the other day. Felt half the weight of my TL - its not top heavy at all.

.

What you need to remember is that the TL is better compared with the SP as the VTR is classed a sports tourer in real world riding terms. However - the SP is GROSSLY overpriced new, meaning the TL always got better sales figures.
Wrong. The TLS is a direct competitor as the VTR, wheras the SP series was brought out to combat the TLR.

Salival
12th September 2008, 19:07
I pick it up tomorrow! Fingers crossed for fine weather and low gas prices!! haha

ManDownUnder
27th September 2008, 17:19
Why are the firestorms so incredibly cheap??? Is it to compete with the SV thou's out there?

They look like great bangs for bucks!

vifferman
28th September 2008, 12:17
Why are the firestorms so incredibly cheap???
Because Honda has so little tooling etc invested in them. There have been no significant improvements made to them since 1997 (just minor tweaks) so they're essentially selling them as run-out sale models. Sooner or later, when they become too out-of-date, they'll drop them entirely.

Swoop
28th September 2008, 14:24
I was of the belief that they had been dropped by Honda.

Had a VTR1000 for a short while and they are a bloody nice ride!

NighthawkNZ
28th September 2008, 15:13
I was of the belief that they had been dropped by Honda.

Had a VTR1000 for a short while and they are a bloody nice ride!

i believe the 07 model was the last release of it...

VTRRR
7th October 2008, 19:00
I have had my vtr for almost a year now, before that i had a 83 gsx750esd, and i have to say the honda is a much nicer bike to ride than that, haha. I find the vtr has enough power for me, and handles really well, not having much to compair it to tho. it has good brakes, loods good, sounds good, and not to bad on the gas. and i still have the warenty for it (its a 2007), if put 10000km on it so far and i dont think i will be getting rid of it any time soon, it does the job i want and does it well, except the seat is a bit hard on those 1000km rides.

Guided_monkey
10th October 2008, 22:44
Have now had the bike almost two years and has been a good pick. Transit each day on the NW and Southern and there is nothing better than filtering (love the narrow V twin) between cagers with the two brothers cans giving a muted (earplugs fitted) burble.

Big and loud enough to intimidate most cagers and with plenty of roll on power/torque for those moments.

Averaging about 17 thou km's / year... mostly in rush hour.

Has my thumbs up...... :niceone: