IT/Computer freaks

[Sniper]

Im at a complete loss here.

Was doing a system restore on my laptop the other day and halfway through the screen turned red and told me it couldnt complete, then it randomly restarted and ran through the first bit of entering the recovery program before popping up with an error message saying

GLUE 2 not found I would grab a screen shot but....

Then it entered part of the recovery program before giving me an error message "Glue Parts unavailible" and then it kicks me into DOS.

So I looked up on the net and it seems like a very weird and complicated problem involving drive partitioning and also how to fix it. So I followed the instructions to the letter and it still decided to piss me off and continue giving me the same issue.

I happened to have a WinXP pro disk lying around (and my original key) so I thought I'll try reinstalling the OS from scratch and then install the drivers from another disk I have. I got through all the text of it checking the system and extracting the files, but when it came to the setup screen and installing it, I got a Fatal system error (I'll have to tell you the exact error message later) and I couldnt complete the installation.

So I now have absolutly no bloody idea whats going on except it has to be something to do with hardware considering my hard drive is formatted and contains sweet FA. And checking the WinXP pro installation disk on the desktop system, it works fine, so it cant be the CD.

Any bright ideas or should I be looking at buying another laptop? I suppose I better let you know too that I have managed to contact NEC who have no idea what the hell a GLUE error is. Useless pricks

[pervert]

When you tried to re-install the OS, did you format the partition before starting the install?

Delete all the partitions and re-partition and format...you may have already tried that of course.

Otherwise you may just need a new HDD rather than a whole new laptop.

[ceebie13]

It's simple really....ditch your PC (or if you can't bear to part with it, keep it for games) and buy yourself a Mac!
Elegant, intuitive, simple to use, stable and virtually virus free.
Make the change like many PC users...once smitten you'll never go back!

[jrandom]

Delete all the partitions and re-partition and format...

Wot 'e said.

Sounds to me like you've got one of those horrible pre-partitioned laptop setups with extra bootable so-called goodness. I always hose the fuckers and do a vanilla OS install on a new single partition.

[Sniper]

When you tried to re-install the OS, did you format the partition before starting the install?

Delete all the partitions and re-partition and format...you may have already tried that of course.

Otherwise you may just need a new HDD rather than a whole new laptop.

I did try that, and then run the recovery program, but I didnt reformat the drive before starting the OS install, I might delete all partitions and have one main one, then format the drive and try again.

Sound like a plan or not recommended?

Cheers for the advice guys

[jrandom]

delete all partitions and have one main one, then format the drive and try again.

Sound like a plan or not recommended?

Yup, do that.

Make sure you kill all the old partitions and then create a new one for formatting. The XP installer lets you do that up front.

Make sure you format with NTFS, too, not FAT.

[pervert]

Definately do that.

When doing a clean OS install it is essential to delete the partitions, then re-partition and fully format before starting the install.

Otherwise it is just writing over existing files and the problem most likely will persist.

Good luck.

...oh and for the record, Mac's are shit unless you're into graphic design or video editing. :laugh:

(That should start some shit...)

Edit: Fish beat me to it!

[bobsmith]

sounds like a plan. If it doesn't work out you could always put linux on it and keep it as a linux workstation.

[edit] - three people replied at the same time saying it's a good idea. Worth a try :)

[Indiana_Jones]

It's simple really....ditch your PC (or if you can't bear to part with it, keep it for games) and buy yourself a Mac!
Elegant, intuitive, simple to use, stable and virtually virus free.
Make the change like many PC users...once smitten you'll never go back!


<img src="http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20060513.jpg">

tehehe :sunny:

-Indy

[bobsmith]

Here's another one:


UNIX Airways

Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building.

Air DOS

Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on...

Mac Airlines

All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air

The terminal is pretty and colourful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows NT Air

Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

Windows XP Air

You turn up at the airport,which is under contract to only allow XP Air planes. All the aircraft are identical, brightly coloured and three times as big as they need to be. The signs are huge and all point the same way. Whichever way you go, someone pops up dressed in a cloak and pointed hat insisting you follow him. Your luggage and clothes are taken off you and replaced with an XP Air suit and suitcase identical to everyone around you as this is included in the exorbitant ticket cost. The aircraft will not take off until you have signed a contract. The inflight entertainment promised turns out to be the same Mickey Mouse cartoon repeated over and over again. You have to phone your travel agent before you can have a meal or drink. You are searched regularly throughout the flight. If you go to the toilet twice or more you get charged for a new ticket. No matter what destination you booked you will always end up crash landing at Whistler in Canada.

Linux Air

Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself.

When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"

[pervert]

Hahahahahahahaha fuck that is in awesome cartoon!!! :laugh:

It's soooo true as well.

[Sniper]

I know a wee bit, but partitioning things are new for me. I need to use FDISK to delete partitions and make new ones dont I? And then format the new partition to make it recognisable. Do I need to label the partition? If the is no partitions showing under FDISK, then does it mean there are no partitions period?

[NighthawkNZ]

It's simple really....ditch your PC (or if you can't bear to part with it, keep it for games) and buy yourself a Mac!
Elegant, intuitive, simple to use, stable and virtually virus free.
Make the change like many PC users...once smitten you'll never go back!

Macs have there own problems... and can have similar probles as PCs

[jrandom]

I know a wee bit, but partitioning things are new for me. I need to use FDISK to delete partitions and make new ones dont I?

You said you had an XP install boot CD.

Boot from that, and use the available partition management options when it starts up and asks you where to install it.

FDISK is so 1990s.

[mooks]

you might have a munted master boot record - you'll need to fdisk this as well as the drive as the mbr sits in a different part on the drive and is not picked up by a normal partition fdisk.

try this at a command prompt
fdisk /mbr c:

or have a look at the following link:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/69013

good luck

[NighthawkNZ]

people still use FDisk... :gob:


make a stuff up in that program and you loose a lot of data... there are better partitioning apps out there... ie Partition Magic that can partition with loosing your data

[Sniper]

people still use FDisk... :gob:


make a stuff up in that program and you loose a lot of data... there are better partitioning apps out there... ie Partition Magic that can partition with loosing your data

I was told to use FDISK, so thats what I use.

You able to use that most those other programs from DOS?

[Phurrball]

Macs have their own problems... and can have similar probles as PCs

Welcome to the good and the bad of hardware and OS convergent evolution...(from an end user POV)

I'll stick with my Powerbook for now :sunny:

(In spite of the fact Apple can be equally as c*nty as windoze box manufacturers when it comes to some of their <a href="http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/">recent quality control issues...</a>)

[NighthawkNZ]

Welcome to the good and the bad of hardware and OS convergent evolution...(from an end user POV)

I'll stick with my Powerbook for now :sunny:

(In spite of the fact Apple can be equally as c*nty as windoze box manufacturers when it comes to some of their <a href="http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/">recent quality control issues...</a>)


I have a mac, PC and a Linux box... and I find the Linux system the most stable...

[ceebie13]

Hahahahahahahaha fuck that is in awesome cartoon!!! :laugh:

It's soooo true as well.

I liken a lot of PC users to Harley riders. They don't like the idea of something being better or even superior. So they blinker themselves to it and throw scorn from a position of ignorance. Hehe.

Seriously though, each to their own, but from my own perspective, PC's just seem so overly complicated compared to Macs, and no-one else has yet convinced me otherwise.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm with you Ceebie, I don't have any preference really when it comes to computers, they're the same thing to me :D

but each to their own.

The author of that comic also takes the piss out of windows and everything else (xbox, ps, gc etc)

-Indy

[pervert]

I liken a lot of PC users to Harley riders. They don't like the idea of something being better or even superior. So they blinker themselves to it and throw scorn from a position of ignorance. Hehe.

I have qualifications in both Mac's, and Windows based systems.

In my opinion theres nothing good about Macs. The range of software is medicore at best and the most useful utilities and apps don't support Mac OS at all.

A Windows based PC is nearly 100% stable and effective when in the right hands. I have left my home PC on for just over 7 months without a restart before, and it only got restarted because I installed new software that required it. You can't fault that.

I never have any spyware or virus issues, even though a good proportion of my use P2P and .torrent related.

It's all about the user, sure a Mac will give the average dumbass less problems. But the average smarter person will realise the humble PC is the best option, they cost far less, are far more upgradable, and you can be assured any software you want to use will be supported.

There's a reason Mac's are crushed in worldwide use numbers by Windows systems, and that's not just because of Microsofts stranglehold on the market. It's also because there are just plain better. :laugh:

[Skunk]

I have qualifications in both Mac's, and Windows based systems.

In my opinion theres nothing good about Macs... <snip>...and that's not just because of Microsofts stranglehold on the market. It's also because there are just plain better. :laugh:
Nice blinkers...

[MOTOXXX]

I have qualifications in both Mac's, and Windows based systems.

In my opinion theres nothing good about Macs. The range of software is medicore at best and the most useful utilities and apps don't support Mac OS at all.

A Windows based PC is nearly 100% stable and effective when in the right hands. I have left my home PC on for just over 7 months without a restart before, and it only got restarted because I installed new software that required it. You can't fault that.

I never have any spyware or virus issues, even though a good proportion of my use P2P and .torrent related.

It's all about the user, sure a Mac will give the average dumbass less problems. But the average smarter person will realise the humble PC is the best option, they cost far less, are far more upgradable, and you can be assured any software you want to use will be supported.

There's a reason Mac's are crushed in worldwide use numbers by Windows systems, and that's not just because of Microsofts stranglehold on the market. It's also because there are just plain better. :laugh:

Praise the Lord. Macs suck Donkey Dick

you can mostly tell a mac user strait away. They all go on about firefox and have those trendy glasses with the thick frames :rockon:

[Indiana_Jones]

Praise the Lord. Macs suck Donkey Dick

you can mostly tell a mac user strait away. They all go on about firefox and have those trendy glasses with the thick frames :rockon:

the scary part is that he's bloody right lol :gob: , one of my mates is just like that, glasses and all.

Also if Mac's are so great (i donno much about the comp world), then surely they would outsale window's if people say how crap it is. It doesn't matter if your the biggest company in thr world etc, if you have a shit product, no one is gonna want it lol

-Indy

[NighthawkNZ]

Also if Mac's are so great (i donno much about the comp world), then surely they would outsale window's if people say how crap it is. It doesn't matter if your the biggest company in thr world etc, if you have a shit product, no one is gonna want it lol

-Indy

Macs main target aren't the home user, there main target market is the multi media industry, audi, video graphic design etc... (tho the PC can do exactly the same thing cheaper)

[pervert]

It doesn't matter if your the biggest company in thr world etc, if you have a shit product, no one is gonna want it lol

True to an extent...

Until the release of XP, Microsoft OS's were not exactly quality(except for Win 95 :laugh:), yet they still outsold Mac's big time...

Microsoft does seem to blind the world into almost believing Mac's don't exist...fair enough though, they shouldn't exist...:laugh:



Macs main target aren't the home user, there main target market is the multi media industry, audi, video graphic design etc... (tho the PC can do exactly the same thing cheaper)

Yes, but I guess to go against what I have been saying, Mac's do perform well in this field.

[Lias]

I suppose I better let you know too that I have managed to contact NEC who have no idea what the hell a GLUE error is. Useless pricks

Its an error generated by the software used to create the restore CD's (Which is probably why NEC support have no fucking idea, because only the guys at NEC who create restore CD's would know about it)
Most common cause of errors like that is a scratched/corrupted restore disc set.

[NighthawkNZ]

True to an extent...
Yes, but I guess to go against what I have been saying, Mac's do perform well in this field.

So do PCs... I use my PC over the mac here as the software is cheaper... :yes: and it does the job just as well...

just don't clutter your system up with crud and it will run smoothly...

[Disco Dan]

Own a brand new shiny iMac. Best thing I have done.

I spent over $3000 building a top of the line PC, each part chosen carefully and spent alot of time and effort getting it perfect. What a complete waste of time and money that was! Yes ok it could play the latest games at full res with grunt to spare, but geesh the constant updates, the neverending patches and then the software incompatibilites etc etc too much hassle. A year later, and the computer was almost a different machine after almost every part had been upgraded to 'keep up'. What a waste of time and money!

My shiny iMac has never failed me.

You take it out of the box, ALL the software is allready on it. Everything is designed to work together seemlessly - and it does. There is close to zero maintanence required - ie no weekly virus scans, then running three diferent adaware scanners and de-fraggin (which FYI is done on the fly on a mac).

Everything is EASIER, SIMPLER, LOOKS BETTER, and now thanks to clever Intel chips FAST too!

As for upgrading? heck I wont need to pay anything for at least 3 years, then I will just go out and buy a new one! Actually cheaper than keeping a PC up-to-date!

And now thanks to mac mini they are cheaper too!! The whole 'macs are more expensive' is mearly an illusion. Your getting a whole lot more for your money when you buy a mac!

Oh and the reason why sales are less? May I remind you who Invented DOS in the first place!!! Then sold it to Microsoft... they then spent billions and made all the mistakes, at no cost to Apple while Apple sat quiet and spent its money on making a product that actually works!! Its funny how everyone was oohing and arring over the look and feel of XP when it was released? Well a lot of the cosmetics (look) of XP were actually stolen from mac os! You look at longhorn and you will see an uncanny resembalance to mac os x - the current os of apple macs!! Apple is leading the way! Bill Gates cant keep up...

Bring on the revolution!! Buy a Mac!!

[jrandom]

GLUE

"It is pitch black. Your computer has been eaten by a GLUE."

Sorry, someone had to say it.

[Lias]

So do PCs... I use my PC over the mac here as the software is cheaper... :yes: and it does the job just as well...

just don't clutter your system up with crud and it will run smoothly...

Paying for software is a crime!

[NighthawkNZ]

Its funny how everyone was oohing and arring over the look and feel of XP when it was released? Well a lot of the cosmetics (look) of XP were actually stolen from mac os! You look at longhorn and you will see an uncanny resembalance to mac os x - the current os of apple macs!! Apple is leading the way! Bill Gates cant keep up...

Bring on the revolution!! Buy a Mac!!

The MAC OS was stolen from GEOS and they got the gui idea from commodore amgia... heck I had GEOS on my C64/128

[Disco Dan]

The MAC OS was stolen from GEOS

Maybe, but my point was the creation of DOS itself! The orignal basis for windows OS ! This was sold to microsoft!!

* Its not secure.
* Its flawed.
* It smells funny

[pervert]

Claiming a Windows system is not secure (or unstable for that matter) does no more than demonstrate a complete lack of operating knowledge.

[jrandom]

Paying for software is a crime!

It's people like you that make people like me keep people like Aladdin (http://www.aladdin.com/) in business.

[Lias]

Bring on the revolution!! Buy a Mac!!

Die die die :-P

[Disco Dan]

Claiming a Windows system is not secure (or unstable for that matter) does no more than demonstrate a complete lack of operating knowledge.

Name me ONE windows operating system available today that is 100% secure. The 'band aid' approach doesnt work.

The only flaw with Macs is that I sometimes use MSN - which is a microsoft product. And even then the only virus' that can attack only affect msn, nothing else.

[NighthawkNZ]

Maybe, but my point was the creation of DOS itself! The orignal basis for windows OS ! This was sold to microsoft!!

* Its not secure.
* Its flawed.
* It smells funny

DOS by itself is a is secure and a very quick OS. As for flawed... how... yes it is an old OS using old technology, but not flawed.

The orginal Windows was not sold as a OS but sold as a GUI to be used with DOS (Big difference) you had to already have dos on your PC.

As for the buying it... so!?! this happens all the time with business whats your point, I have done similar things myself in th ebusiness world.

I would call the MAC OS secure either, no system is...

[Lias]

It's people like you that make people like me keep people like Aladdin (http://www.aladdin.com/) in business.

I dont think they've invented any software yet thats uncrackable :-)

Personally, the more any company tries to protect its code, the more actively I will go out of my way to share copies of it :-)

Their is entirely too much crap software, and overpriced software out there to do anything BUT pirate imho.

If software is REALLY good, and reasonably priced, I might buy it, otherwise the software companies can all burn in the firey pits of /dev/null

[jrandom]

DOS by itself is a is secure and a very quick OS.

Secure? DOS had no security features whatsoever! It didn't even have any concept of 'user identity'!

I suppose the fact that it also had no networking features meant that it was secure by default, inasmuch as it was impossible to attack remotely.

But then, by that definition, a lump of wood is also 'secure'. It's not very useful, though.

I'm really not sure what you're going on about.

[Disco Dan]

DOS by itself is a is secure and a very quick OS. As for flawed... how... yes it is an old OS using old technology, but not flawed.

The orginal Windows was not sold as a OS but sold as a GUI to be used with DOS (Big difference) you had to already have dos on your PC.

As for the buying it... so!?! this happens all the time with business whats your point, I have done similar things myself in th ebusiness world.

I would call the MAC OS secure either, no system is...

So you admit it smells funny then? :dodge:

[pervert]

Name me ONE windows operating system available today that is 100% secure. The 'band aid' approach doesnt work.

High-profile companies the world over use Microsoft OS, not Mac's.

You're a dreamer if you think OS X is 100% secure.

If Mac's became the most popular system, they would be in the same boat as Microsoft is now in regards to viruses etc.

The creators and attackers don't give a shit about disrupting a tiny little proprortion of users that use a Mac. They feel bad enough for you using a Mac, without infecting your 'PC' as well. :laugh:

[The Stranger]

Bring on the revolution!! Buy a Mac!!

How old are you DD?
They been saying shit like that for about 30yrs now and where's the revolution?

[pervert]

How old are you DD?
They been saying shit like that for about 30yrs now and where's the revolution?

Hahahaha, it'll happen... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[jrandom]

I dont think they've invented any software yet thats uncrackable :-)

Of course not.

Heck, my software's eminently crackable. Just find the decision point that queries the Aladdin dongle and NOP it out, more or less. The only reason, in fact, that I use the dongles is to make such a method the only way of cracking it by removing the possibility of 'key generators', etc. A quick hash of the executable file will always tell me whether someone has a legit copy.

The only way to truly secure software is by physically securing the hardware that it's running on, so that potential attackers can only interact with it via its interfaces, not by modifying its executable instructions. It's amazing how many people don't quite grasp that basic fact.

[NighthawkNZ]

So you admit it smells funny then? :dodge:

this code is no longer used in Windows... so whats your point
XP only emulates DOS its not real DOS

so again whats your point?

[Disco Dan]

How old are you DD?
They been saying shit like that for about 30yrs now and where's the revolution?

It will happen... Apple have and still are learning from all the mistakes and pitfalls that microsoft are falling into. Apple will continue to make quality computers and secure computers. Microsoft will never be able to stay ahead...

[Lias]

Of course not.

Heck, my software's eminently crackable. Just find the decision point that queries the Aladdin dongle and NOP it out, more or less. The only reason, in fact, that I use the dongles is to make such a method the only way of cracking it by removing the possibility of 'key generators', etc. A quick hash of the executable file will always tell me whether someone has a legit copy.

The only way to truly secure software is by physically securing the hardware that it's running on, so that potential attackers can only interact with it via its interfaces, not by modifying its executable instructions. It's amazing how many people don't quite grasp that basic fact.

IANA Developer, but I'd have thought you could store vital parts of the executable code on the dongle, so that if you NOP'd the jump the program would fail because half of it was on the dongle.

Alot of trouble to goto thou I imagine.

PS: What software do you make? PM me if you dont want to out yourself in public :P

[pervert]

It will happen...

Microsoft will never be able to stay ahead...

Hahahahahahahaha that's pure gold right there. :laugh:

[Lias]

It will happen... Apple have and still are learning from all the mistakes and pitfalls that microsoft are falling into. Apple will continue to make quality computers and secure computers. Microsoft will never be able to stay ahead...

Apple are turning into nothing other than an alternative OS for x86 hardware. Hopefully they will go the way of BEOS.

[Sniper]

Wow, look at all this useless information about Macs on my thread asking for a bit of help.

Quick couple of pointers.... I have never liked Macs, I dont like Macs, I never will like macs and therefore will own a fucken macintosh POS!

How about starting another thread with the benefits of PC vs Mac rather than fucking with mine.

[NighthawkNZ]

Apple are turning into nothing other than an alternative OS for x86 hardware. Hopefully they will go the way of BEOS.

Was a pitty about BeOS a great nix based multi media OS

[Disco Dan]

I run a business repairing windows pc's. I own a mac. Not only is it easier but also safer for me to run everything through my mac.

I connect the computers to my mac via my network and I can work remotely on them as well as backing up the customers data through my network onto a large external drive. If it was a windows network, I would be exposing my 'pc' to all sorts of nasties!

[Indiana_Jones]

Own a brand new shiny iMac. Best thing I have done.

I spent over $3000 building a top of the line PC, each part chosen carefully and spent alot of time and effort getting it perfect. What a complete waste of time and money that was! Yes ok it could play the latest games at full res with grunt to spare, but geesh the constant updates, the neverending patches and then the software incompatibilites etc etc too much hassle. A year later, and the computer was almost a different machine after almost every part had been upgraded to 'keep up'. What a waste of time and money!

My shiny iMac has never failed me.

You take it out of the box, ALL the software is allready on it. Everything is designed to work together seemlessly - and it does. There is close to zero maintanence required - ie no weekly virus scans, then running three diferent adaware scanners and de-fraggin (which FYI is done on the fly on a mac).

Everything is EASIER, SIMPLER, LOOKS BETTER, and now thanks to clever Intel chips FAST too!

As for upgrading? heck I wont need to pay anything for at least 3 years, then I will just go out and buy a new one! Actually cheaper than keeping a PC up-to-date!

And now thanks to mac mini they are cheaper too!! The whole 'macs are more expensive' is mearly an illusion. Your getting a whole lot more for your money when you buy a mac!

Oh and the reason why sales are less? May I remind you who Invented DOS in the first place!!! Then sold it to Microsoft... they then spent billions and made all the mistakes, at no cost to Apple while Apple sat quiet and spent its money on making a product that actually works!! Its funny how everyone was oohing and arring over the look and feel of XP when it was released? Well a lot of the cosmetics (look) of XP were actually stolen from mac os! You look at longhorn and you will see an uncanny resembalance to mac os x - the current os of apple macs!! Apple is leading the way! Bill Gates cant keep up...

Bring on the revolution!! Buy a Mac!!


Can you say fanboy? :D

-Indy

[Lias]

Was a pitty about BeOS a great nix based multi media OS

I used it a bit, wasnt overly fussed on it.. One of my mates was a total beos zealot thou lol.

Strangely enough hes a mac zealot now.

[ceebie13]

Quick couple of pointers.... I have never liked Macs, I dont like Macs, I never will like macs and therefore will own a fucken macintosh POS!



Excellent! Another convert...you won't regret it Sniper?


Sorry for the diversion though, mate. Consider my wrists slapped!

[jrandom]

IANA Developer, but I'd have thought you could store vital parts of the executable code on the dongle, so that if you NOP'd the jump the program would fail because half of it was on the dongle.

You'd still have to read the code into the computer's memory at some point for it to be executed, and then any potential attacker has you right where he wants you, which is probably under the thumb of a networked SoftICE session, at which point he extracts the critical code and makes his own fake dongle. Et, voila.

I suppose you could effectively build a computer into a dongle and execute software there, but then you're just doing what I described - running your software on secure hardware and exposing only its interface, which is always the only real solution. If the cost/benefit ratio demands it, then yes, sometimes that's the way to go.

If your stuff has to run on plain vanilla mainstream equipment owned by other people, though, you just have to accept the necessity of distributing its naked bits and bytes for every eye to see, and hope that the economics of its distribution and support are such that you'll end up making a profit from your blood, sweat, tears and code rather than becoming another warez statistic.


What software do you make? PM me if you dont want to out yourself in public :P

No reason not to tell. I work for these guys (http://www.phitek.com/); alongside our main business of building stuff that sounds good when you plug it in, we've developed a somewhat specialised acoustic testing software package. Fortunately, the users, who are mostly our contract manufacturers, have a close support relationship with us, and don't have the resources or desire to bother trying to crack it.

[The Stranger]

It will happen... Apple have and still are learning from all the mistakes and pitfalls that microsoft are falling into. Apple will continue to make quality computers and secure computers. Microsoft will never be able to stay ahead...

Wake up DD, wake up. How fucken long do they need to learn these things?
You think that just because you have recently discovered an Apple that they are new or something? Right from the first crapple produced the zealots have been saying the same thing.

Was at a course the other day and yacking to the guy sitting next to me. He had just completed heaps of time at uni, then got out in the real world and found that actually nearly everyone runs windows so was now training for the real world. Is it just me or does this seem kind of stupid?

[Ixion]

One word . AIX (though this is actually from Solaris).

Mind you, I know guys who say that if it's not watercooled, and you can't walk inside it, it's a toy.

[NighthawkNZ]

My giga bits are bigger than your mega bits :nya:

[Lias]

One word . AIX (though this is actually from Solaris).

Mind you, I know guys who say that if it's not watercooled, and you can't walk inside it, it's a toy.

There are fuckall if "mainframes" of that size left these days. The supercomputers all tend to be clusters. Scary when you think my cellphone is prolly more powerful than some of the old crays :-)

[ceebie13]

Wake up DD, wake up. How fucken long do they need to learn these things?
You think that just because you have recently discovered an Apple that they are new or something? Right from the first crapple produced the zealots have been saying the same thing.

Yes, yes, yes, but why is that PC users are, by and large, sooo friggin blinkered by what they see as something that's alien to them. Is it an ignorance about Macs? Is it a fear of them? Is it a reluctance to admit that there might just be something good about them? Why do they always malign Macs as you have above....?

My guess it's a loyalty thing, after all we Mac monkeys are perhaps guilty of the same crime. But I think in general we are more tolerant of PC's than the other way round.

Funny old world innit?

[NighthawkNZ]

My guess it's a loyalty thing, after all we Mac monkeys are perhaps guilty of the same crime. But I think in general we are more tolerant of PC's than the other way round.

Funny old world innit?

At the end of the day I don't give a rats arse what puter I use as long as if it has the software I need to do the task at hand... ;)

[The Stranger]

Yes, yes, yes, but why is that PC users are, by and large, sooo friggin blinkered by what they see as something that's alien to them. Is it an ignorance about Macs? Is it a fear of them? Is it a reluctance to admit that there might just be something good about them? Why do they always malign Macs as you have above....?

My guess it's a loyalty thing, after all we Mac monkeys are perhaps guilty of the same crime. But I think in general we are more tolerant of PC's than the other way round.

Funny old world innit?

Nah I am not maligning them (Macs). Just winding DD up is all.
Way I see it there are many factors which come into it.

It probably doesn't matter which platform is best (to the consumer) people tend to run with what they know and what they know others have and use. If you have a pool of people (employees and potential employees) whom already know how to use Windows, wouldn't you run with that? The costs of training and loss of productivity to change are very often HUGE. Why would you do it if you don't have to?

I use Windoze because I know all of our clients use Windoze (some also use others as well) so why should I care if Apple or Linux is better. We invested a lot of time with Linux, learning, testing and becoming competant with the plan to go out and sell it. What a cool OS (in it's various guises) solid, stable, unbloated and well priced. But shit, what a hard thing to sell. There is the perception that, well it's free, how can it be any good. Plus my old favourite - What about support? Well hell you don't actually get support from Micro$oft, but the customer thinks they do and perception is everything.

Most customers run some form of custom software, beit an excel spreadsheet written by a relative which they think is the bees knees or some full blown multi million dollar custom application. To most businesses that is their reason for computing most wont change platforms for fear of disrupting this. Sometimes that fear is a reality sometimes it is not, but is is a fear none the less. There is also a measure of comfort in knowing that you have developed an application on a well known and widely available platform. We picked up a client who "lost" their developer - he dropped off the face of the earth, as they are want to do from time to time. Because their all important mission critical application was written in ASP 2 running on IIS and has a SQL server back end it was easy for me to pick up and run with. There would be a thousand people out there that could have done this. But not so with all platforms.

Personally I don't believe that the cost of computing is that great in most businesses as to warrant the time and effort to try and make a change, and even if it is, you would need to demonstrate a significant cost saving (after allowing for loss of productivity and training etc) to induce a change.

[The Stranger]

Or I could just be full of shit of course.

[avgas]

In my opinion theres nothing good about Macs. :
Must be a youngin then cos if you knew about both you would know about the dodgeyness of pc hardware in conparison to a mac.
I hate mac's, as well as BMW's, Ferraris and Ducati's........but hardware in these companies is what sets them apart - love or hate them, its the top of the field. Dont believe me, go listen to the fan noise in a Mac Classic....

[avgas]

Name me ONE windows operating system available today that is 100% secure. The 'band aid' approach doesnt work.

The only flaw with Macs is that I sometimes use MSN - which is a microsoft product. And even then the only virus' that can attack only affect msn, nothing else.

Vista is secure, too secure. The firewall would pop up everytime i scratch myself.
Pity its as useless as mac os cos nothing runs on it. I had to stop my beta testing to play games

[The Stranger]

Must be a youngin then cos if you knew about both you would know about the dodgeyness of pc hardware in conparison to a mac.
I hate mac's, as well as BMW's, Ferraris and Ducati's........but hardware in these companies is what sets them apart - love or hate them, its the top of the field. Dont believe me, go listen to the fan noise in a Mac Classic....

Ha ha, spot the troll.

[Drunken Monkey]

Just incase you haven't resolved the issue yet; if the fdisk /mbr didn't work, you cantry a low level format. If it's an IDE drive (likely), the a tool like maxllf should work fine.

PS - Can you knob-head Mac users just leave a support thread alone of your "mY M4C !s Mo|23 uB3r than ur PC j00 l0$er" for at least one time in your miserable existences?

[NighthawkNZ]

Name me ONE windows operating system available today that is 100% secure. The 'band aid' approach doesnt work.

The only flaw with Macs is that I sometimes use MSN - which is a microsoft product. And even then the only virus' that can attack only affect msn, nothing else.

Name any secure OS, there is no such thing... (any probably never will...) if you believe the mac is secure you are a fool. You just have to read the security reports with the number flaws found regularly with all OS's

[Rhino]

Sniper, how have you got on with re-partitioning the hard disk and re-installing your OS? Your XP cd should make it a pretty straightforward task.

As was mentioned earlier, once you have created a partition, format it as NTFS rather than FAT.

[Sniper]

Just incase you haven't resolved the issue yet; if the fdisk /mbr didn't work, you cantry a low level format. If it's an IDE drive (likely), the a tool like maxllf should work fine.

PS - Can you knob-head Mac users just leave a support thread alone of your "mY M4C !s Mo|23 uB3r than ur PC j00 l0$er" for at least one time in your miserable existences?

FDISK /mbr didnt do a bloody thing. It just moved down a space and gave me the c:/ prompt again :mad:

Surely if I type "format c:" it should erase anything and everything on the harddrive including the /mbr shouldnt it?



Sniper, how have you got on with re-partitioning the hard disk and re-installing your OS? Your XP cd should make it a pretty straightforward task.

As was mentioned earlier, once you have created a partition, format it as NTFS rather than FAT.

Yea tried that mate and formatted it as NTFS. It goes through extracting all the files and then when it comes to the setup screen, I get a fatal error which says something along the lines of "i868/asus/..." not found. I'll get the exact error written down later

Its really not doing what it says its meant to do on the web or what people are saying here.

The only other thing I can think of is does anyone have a WinXP pro installation disk I could try, maybe there is something up with mine. Otherwise its going with me to the firing range.

[pervert]

You need be able to boot the laptop from the XP CD.

You don't need any partitioning software or even to use the command prompt at all.

Set your BIOS startup preferences to boot from the CD drive.

It will take you to a blue XP install screen. It will give you options. First delete all partitions it lists, then re-partition one or more segments.

Then tell it to install XP on the C: segment, but make sure you tell it to format the partition first, using the NTFS file system.

Does that help at all? :yes:

...or maybe you've already tried that, if so then yes, try a new CD before smashing the laptop...

[Sniper]

You need be able to boot the laptop from the XP CD.

You don't need any partitioning software or even to use the command prompt at all.

Set your BIOS startup preferences to boot from the CD drive.

It will take you to a blue XP install screen. It will give you options. First delete all partitions it lists, then re-partition one or more segments.

Then tell it to install XP on the C: segment, but make sure you tell it to format the partition first, using the NTFS file system.

Does that help at all? :yes:

...or maybe you've already tried that, if so then yes, try a new CD before smashing the laptop...

Lol, yep, thats been tried a few times and Im still getting the fatal error.

[pervert]

Did your laptop come with a recovery CD? That could be worth a go...

Other than that you'd probably need to try a new HDD and see if that fixes it.

[Sniper]

Did your laptop come with a recovery CD? That could be worth a go...

Other than that you'd probably need to try a new HDD and see if that fixes it.

The recovery CD is what caused this in the first place. Worked great the first time I used and the second time it gave me a damn Glue 2 error which I have found out means a faulty CD

[jrandom]

The recovery CD is what caused this in the first place. Worked great the first time I used and the second time it gave me a damn Glue 2 error which I have found out means a faulty CD

Then I can't help but think that correct application of the XP install CD would fix it, although the error you experienced when you tried that indicates that the standard XPsp2 CD (it is an SP2 CD, right, not an older XP one?) might be missing a crucial driver for your laptop. Laptop vendors get you coming and going. Motherfuckers. Took me a whole two days at one point last year to get a friend's inherited Vaio properly up and running.

[Sniper]

Then I can't help but think that correct application of the XP install CD would fix it, although the error you experienced when you tried that indicates that the standard XPsp2 CD (it is an SP2 CD, right, not an older XP one?) might be missing a crucial driver for your laptop. Laptop vendors get you coming and going. Motherfuckers. Took me a whole two days at one point last year to get a friend's inherited Vaio properly up and running.

Good point, I havent actually checked if the CD is XPsp2, but Im damn sure it is.

Does anyone in CHCH have a XPsp2 Disk I can try? I have my own key, so its not like Im pirating it....

[jrandom]

Does anyone in CHCH have a XPsp2 Disk I can try? I have my own key, so its not like Im pirating it....

Don't pretend to care, dude, we DGAF about that. ;)

I'm sure someone has the right CD. If they don't, I can post you a proper copy of a legit SP2 install CD. Let me know if it's required.

[Drunken Monkey]

Surely if I type "format c:" it should erase anything and everything on the harddrive including the /mbr shouldnt it?


Of course not, if the drive was partitioned you wouldn't necessarily want to format all the drives at once. "Format c:" will only format c: !

Try a low level format, that will properly blank the disk, it will destroy all partition information, etc...You don't even need to llf the whole thing, as the records are only at the start of the drive.

[avgas]

hehe glue error, i think its broken.....got glue?

[Sniper]

Don't pretend to care, dude, we DGAF about that. ;)

I'm sure someone has the right CD. If they don't, I can post you a proper copy of a legit SP2 install CD. Let me know if it's required.

Cheers, I'll yell out if I cant find something soon


Of course not, if the drive was partitioned you wouldn't necessarily want to format all the drives at once. "Format c:" will only format c: !

Try a low level format, that will properly blank the disk, it will destroy all partition information, etc...You don't even need to llf the whole thing, as the records are only at the start of the drive.

I keep reading that a low level format is not recommended because of secor datat ect ect on it and I need manufacturers (of the HDD) tools to do it. Why and how do I just do it anyway?

[jrandom]

Try a low level format, that will properly blank the disk, it will destroy all partition information, etc...You don't even need to llf the whole thing, as the records are only at the start of the drive.

Nah, no need. I think we've zeroed in on the situation here.

Sniper's original laptop-model-specific CD is fucked, resulting in his computer being eaten by a GLUE, but he can't sort himself out with a standard XP CD because he has a wack-arse old laptop that won't even do a minimal OS boot without some driver that's only on its vendor-provided OS CD, unless we're lucky and he has an out-of-date XP CD, meaning that all he needs is a proper XPsp2 CD.

Best option if XP SP2 still doesn't work is to poke around online and figure out if there's a workaround to get XP going on that laptop without the vendor CD. If not, order a new original CD for that model from NEC.

There's bound to be a way through this maze, but I guarantee that it will cost someone their sanity.

[Sniper]

Sniper's original laptop-model-specific CD is fucked, resulting in his computer being eaten by a GLUE, but he can't sort himself out with a standard XP CD because he has a wack-arse old laptop that won't even do a minimal OS boot without some driver that's only on its vendor-provided OS CD, unless we're lucky and he has an out-of-date XP CD, meaning that all he needs is a proper XPsp2 CD.

It has not been eaten, just dribbled on


Best option if XP SP2 still doesn't work is to poke around online and figure out if there's a workaround to get XP going on that laptop without the vendor CD. If not, order a new original CD for that model from NEC.

Bastards always want money, I bet they planned this!!


There's bound to be a way through this maze, but I guarantee that it will cost someone their sanity.

Too late

[Sniper]

Oh yes, beer involved for the loan of a XPsp2 CD

[Sniper]

Also, ideas on a LLF tool when Im not sure of what make of HDD I have or someway to find out what make of HDD I have (without taking the laptop apart) so I can get the right tool from the manufacturer

[WRT]

Alright, I've only just stumbled across this thread but going to add my 2c FWIW.

You can use IBM/Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test to check what model HDD you have - download the disk creator from here:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

Meanwhile, just off on a tangent here - what was the original reason for the rebuild? Everyones been quick to pin point faulty CD's etc, but is there a chance that there was a hardware fault that caused your original problems as well? While you are running that DFT util, it might pay to do a check on the HDD to make sure it's not faulty. The DFT will only work on IBM or Hitachi drives I think, but most of the manufacturers do a similar util that you can download for free.

Also, FWIW, when you run fdisk /mbr, it does just return you to a command prompt after a second or two. This is normal behavour and means that fdisk has finished rebuilding your master boot record. I take it you have tried installing again after rebuilding the MBR?

[Sniper]

Alright, I've only just stumbled across this thread but going to add my 2c FWIW.

You can use IBM/Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test to check what model HDD you have - download the disk creator from here:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

I had a look at that, but before I can download it, I need the HDD model number. Might try make one up, or use the example


Meanwhile, just off on a tangent here - what was the original reason for the rebuild? Everyones been quick to pin point faulty CD's etc, but is there a chance that there was a hardware fault that caused your original problems as well? While you are running that DFT util, it might pay to do a check on the HDD to make sure it's not faulty. The DFT will only work on IBM or Hitachi drives I think, but most of the manufacturers do a similar util that you can download for free.

Couple of reasons, first was I usually do a format and complete reinstall of things every new year to clean up the computer (or any of the others Ive owned) But it has been doing odd things like returning errors while trying trying to burn CD's or DVD's on the same type and make of disk that work perfectly the past few times. Random restarts and not shutting down were another couple of faults.


Also, FWIW, when you run fdisk /mbr, it does just return you to a command prompt after a second or two. This is normal behavour and means that fdisk has finished rebuilding your master boot record. I take it you have tried installing again after rebuilding the MBR?

Yep, thats exactly what it does. I had never done FDSIK /mbr before, so I thought it was being a prick. And XP still didnt want to install afterwards. I might try another XP installation disk and then try to install Linux (Gulp) and see if that works. If not, I'll try a new HDD and then it comes with me to the range.

[WRT]

Those could all be symptoms of a faulty drive. I'd definately run a drive test on it before trying anything else, followed closely by a RAM check.

You should be able to download the CD ISO image from that link I posted, then boot from the CD (nobody uses floppys any more, do they?) and run the DFT. If the drive is from another manufacturer it will still tell you the model, but I think the drive check wont work. Let us know the manufacturer and I'll track down the appropriate util for you.

Also run a RAM checker, you can get one here:
http://www.simmtester.com/page/products/doc/download.asp

Oh dear God, I spoke too soon - there's a use for a floppy disk. I seem to recall I tried once making a boot CD for this util and it didnt work.

If you get prompted for a username and password on that site, use bugmenot@mailinator.com/bugmenot

HTH

[Sniper]

Cheers WRT. I dont think I need to worry about floppys. The laptop doesnt have a floppy drive :p

I will try that RAM test out too. Thanks

[imdying]

make a stuff up in that program and you loose a lot of data... there are better partitioning apps out there... ie Partition Magic that can partition with loosing your dataPM has eaten plenty of harddrive partions in its time, don't foolishly believe it's much safer than FDisk, because it's not.
I have a mac, PC and a Linux box... and I find the Linux system the most stable...I have 20 Windows servers here that are only when being moved... stability mostly depends on what a box is doing imho.
A Windows based PC is nearly 100% stable and effective when in the right hands. I have left my home PC on for just over 7 months without a restart before, and it only got restarted because I installed new software that required it. You can't fault that.This is not unusual.
Praise the Lord. Macs suck Donkey Dick

you can mostly tell a mac user strait away. They all go on about firefox and have those trendy glasses with the thick frames :rockon:Although Macs actually do suck Donkey Dick (google it some time), Firefox isn't too bad.
Paying for software is a crime!You get what you pay for... free software is free if you're time is cheap.
The MAC OS was stolen from GEOS and they got the gui idea from commodore amgia... heck I had GEOS on my C64/128Sssssh, they don't want you to know that!
Maybe, but my point was the creation of DOS itself! The orignal basis for windows OS ! This was sold to microsoft!!

* Its not secure.
* Its flawed.
* It smells funnyYou can add:
* they made a mint from it
* it put them into the position they are today

Claiming a Windows system is not secure (or unstable for that matter) does no more than demonstrate a complete lack of operating knowledge.Correct.
Name me ONE windows operating system available today that is 100% secure. The 'band aid' approach doesnt work.There are none. Operating systems are however rated by security level by the US DoD to an international standard. The ones that rate as highly secure I very much doubt that anyone on here have ever even heard of. You wouldn't want to run something totally secure though, the box would then be useless!
Secure? DOS had no security features whatsoever! It didn't even have any concept of 'user identity'!

I suppose the fact that it also had no networking features meant that it was secure by default, inasmuch as it was impossible to attack remotely.This is true... and many of them were merely dumb terminals to mainframes, and the security was handled thus.
You're a dreamer if you think OS X is 100% secure.

If Mac's became the most popular system, they would be in the same boat as Microsoft is now in regards to viruses etc. Noone would be retarded enough to think that OS X is 100% secure. You are correct that virus writers CBF with Macs... why would they? Take over every mac in the world and you've got a teeny weeny bot army compared to PCs... why would they bother??? How will that make them money???
The only way to truly secure software is by physically securing the hardware that it's running on, so that potential attackers can only interact with it via its interfaces, not by modifying its executable instructions. It's amazing how many people don't quite grasp that basic fact.Yep, and then you've created something that is a pain in the arse to use for anything other than the specific job it was created for.
this code is no longer used in Windows... so whats your point
XP only emulates DOS its not real DOSYep, DOS is far from relevant anymore.
It will happen... Apple have and still are learning from all the mistakes and pitfalls that microsoft are falling into. Apple will continue to make quality computers and secure computers. Microsoft will never be able to stay ahead...Oooook, good luck with that.
I run a business repairing windows pc's. I own a mac. Not only is it easier but also safer for me to run everything through my mac.We have one of the largest service centres in NZ, and we manage alright without using Macs for those jobs...
FDISK /mbr didnt do a bloody thing. It just moved down a space and gave me the c:/ prompt again :mad:

Surely if I type "format c:" it should erase anything and everything on the harddrive including the /mbr shouldnt it?Format won't erase a drive, only a partition.
Of course not, if the drive was partitioned you wouldn't necessarily want to format all the drives at once. "Format c:" will only format c: !

Try a low level format, that will properly blank the disk, it will destroy all partition information, etc...You don't even need to llf the whole thing, as the records are only at the start of the drive.Pretty much... a low lever format is worth a go.
Cheers, I'll yell out if I cant find something soon

I keep reading that a low level format is not recommended because of secor datat ect ect on it and I need manufacturers (of the HDD) tools to do it. Why and how do I just do it anyway?It is recommended, although I have used Seagates SeaTools on other drives ok.

Alright, I've only just stumbled across this thread but going to add my 2c FWIW.

You can use IBM/Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test to check what model HDD you have - download the disk creator from here:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFTThis too is a good program.
Those could all be symptoms of a faulty drive. I'd definately run a drive test on it before trying anything else, followed closely by a RAM check. Sounds likely... memtest86 is good and will boot off of a CD.

[Ixion]

FDISK /mbr didnt do a bloody thing. It just moved down a space and gave me the c:/ prompt again :mad:



fdisk /mbr doesn't APPEAR to do anything. All it does is copy the backup copy of the MBR on top of the active MBR - ie it refreshes the MBR. Granted it might be nice if it came up with a little message saying "Done, dude" or some such.

[Sniper]

fdisk /mbr doesn't APPEAR to do anything. All it does is copy the backup copy of the MBR on top of the active MBR - ie it refreshes the MBR. Granted it might be nice if it came up with a little message saying "Done, dude" or some such.

It would stop people like me looking like twats :oops:

[jrandom]

Yep, and then you've created something that is a pain in the arse to use for anything other than the specific job it was created for.

Of course. Secure hardware isn't a general solution to everything. Bear in mind that the idea of a bank computer running in a locked room satisfies this definition, though. I'm not just talking about epoxied-up PCBs in glued-together plastic cases.

Remember the DeCSS furore? You might recall that CSS was only cracked after PC-based DVD video playing software was released and could be examined at leisure. Prior to that, the barrier of prising the relevant decryption keys out of the chips in dedicated player hardware had, for whatever reason, been high enough to stop a 'class break' style crack.

FWIW, some years back, I worked as a software engineer for six months at a company that developed EFTPOS terminals. The relevant security standards and the approaches that payment systems take to meet requirements are interesting.

[jrandom]

It would stop people like me looking like twats

Nonsense. Why should bad user interface design (in this case, a console program not providing any output whatsoever on completion) imply that you're in any way lacking?

This always comes up. People who aren't familiar with computers thinking that somehow, that fact makes them a lesser being in front of those who happen to work on the things for a living.

Typically, this is encouraged by Little Hitler System Administrator types who've spent their lives crawling around on their knees plugging in cables, pushing little GUI buttons and typing long, badly-designed console commands into computer terminals in darkened server rooms.

'IT' people are almost as bad as 'HR' people when it comes to failing to realise that they supposed to be support workers. Don't let it get to you.

[Sniper]

But when Im studying (Mind you, teaching myself, not sitting in a classroom) to get into the IT industry (With anything, not being picky), it still makes you feel like a twat.

Thank god my ego is big enough to stop it affecting my confidence.

[NighthawkNZ]

PM has eaten plenty of harddrive partions in its time, don't foolishly believe it's much safer than FDisk, because it's not.

Never said it was safer... but its easier to use than FDisk...

[Ixion]

Of course not.

.. find the decision point that queries the Aladdin dongle and NOP it out, more or less. The only reason, in fact, that I use the dongles ..

Harggh. /me HATE dongles. Blurdy horrible things. You bad man! BAD BAD man. And I won't sit on your knee! I want my Mummy.

[jrandom]

studying... to get into the IT industry

With all due respect, why the fuck would you want to do that?

[jrandom]

Harggh. /me HATE dongles. Blurdy horrible things. You bad man! BAD BAD man.

Mine are only used on dedicated acoustic testing stations in laboratories and production lines. I'm not inflicting them on Regular Users (tm).

That makes me, like, only one-quarter evil.

[Sniper]

With all due respect, why the fuck would you want to do that?

All manner of reasons, the main ones being more money and better hours.

[jrandom]

All manner of reasons, the main ones being more money and better hours.

Are you sure?

Why not become an accountant, or go work at a bank? Or get your HT licence? I'm serious. Have you really investigated different career options?

IT jobs can be a lot shittier than many people seem to think they are.

[Ixion]

With respect. decent money in IT disappeared about 10 years ago. Especially at the lower end. And the hours can be pretty shit, mainly cos if something breaks you have to get it fixed no matter what the hours. There aren't too many other jobs where "pulling an all nighter" is a stock phrase.

[Sniper]

Are you sure?

Why not become an accountant, or go work at a bank? Or get your HT licence? I'm serious. Have you really investigated different career options?

IT jobs can be a lot shittier than many people seem to think they are.

I have looked into it when I was in a hospital bed after the Army and thought that I would always like to try my hand at Admin or IT. I have had a play with programming, but it really wasnt my fortiet.

If I was to look elsewhere instead of IT, I would maybe look at the joining the cops in Australia or maybe get my HT license there and do the road trip thing for a few years.

The weirdest thing is that I am one step away from getting my Dive Instructor Ticket, but I havent really gone ahead to complete it... :slap:


With respect. decent money in IT disappeared about 10 years ago. Especially at the lower end. And the hours can be pretty shit, mainly cos if something breaks you have to get it fixed no matter what the hours. There aren't too many other jobs where "pulling an all nighter" is a stock phrase.

Ok. I suppose I havent really sat down with anyone in the IT industry and had a chat to them about it. I have just heard and read good things, so I was going for them.

[jrandom]

I have looked into it... look elsewhere instead of IT... cops in Australia... HT license there and do the road trip thing... Dive Instructor

All excellent careers, and potentially rewarding. Don't discount them.


Ok. I suppose I havent really sat down with anyone in the IT industry and had a chat to them about it. I have just heard and read good things, so I was going for them.

Thank goodness you've realised that. I've probably met dozens of people who went on what they heard and read about the glitzy 'IT industry' and the bajillions of dollars that they could somehow magically make in it with no effort. Inevitable outcome: disillusionment. Guess what? The majority of 'IT' jobs just make you unhappy without making you rich.

We should have a pint and a chat next time I'm down in Chch, probably end of March. Shoot the shit and figure out whether you really want to be an IT gimp.

[Sniper]

We should have a pint and a chat next time I'm down in Chch, probably end of March. Shoot the shit and figure out whether you really want to be an IT gimp.

That would be bloody brilliant, I owe you a few pints from memory too.

[imdying]

Yep, majority of IT jobs suck. Stay away from support, admin, techie type jobs. They get paid bugger all (top admin don't, but that take a good while to get there), they work same old shitty hours as regular people, and have to deal with retard customers. Do programming, hours are good, pay is good, perks are good. Even the biggest noobs start on 35k, and those that aren't morons get scaled up nice n quick. Work less than 40 hours a week, life insurance, medical insurance, income protection insurance, travel, a phone, the list goes on. Plus things like an hour for lunch are typical, you can come and go as you please, you get interesting things to fiddle with etc etc. Best of all, the amount of time with customers is generally limited, and even then you don't end up talking to retail retards. Don't like to write code or databases, then you will have no love for IT.

Long story short, the great IT jobs around now are the same as the ones you've heard about... i.e. Not all of the ghey but necessary positions that've cropped up as a result of the IT boom, the menial tasks, the IT equivalent of being a checkout chick, support, admin, techie type jobs. Stick with the specialists tasks like Business to Business infrastructures, web services, databases, and other such programming type tasks and you'll still live a reasonable lifestyle. imho

[mooks]

fdisk /mbr doesn't APPEAR to do anything. All it does is copy the backup copy of the MBR on top of the active MBR - ie it refreshes the MBR. Granted it might be nice if it came up with a little message saying "Done, dude" or some such.

it may not 'appear' to do anything but your mbr will be all nice and new and shiny ...... honest
if you have a messed up mbr then fdisking does have sigificant impact - well - at least I have found that in the past :)
not much you do at the command prompt gives you any feedback I have found .... good ol' DOS ......
:D

[phaedrus]

I had a look at that, but before I can download it, I need the HDD model number. Might try make one up, or use the example



http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ has the ibm/Hitachi software and some other useful bits, including a ram tester

[imdying]

The UBCD is very good, recommended AA+++.

[Lias]

1. UBCD is good
2. Low Level Formatting is BAD, and generally isnt done outside of the manufacturers factory / repair depot, cept by stubborn old coots who think they know best because thats what they used to do to their MFM/RLL Boat anchors.
3. The XP install CD should give you an option to nuke the partition(s) as one of the first install options.
4. Bog standard XP install cd's dont have an asus folder on them that I recall :-) Sure its not a manufacturer specific disc?

[scracha]

Do programming, hours are good, pay is good, perks are good. Even the biggest noobs start on 35k, and those that aren't morons
Then you work a few years, realise that for all the knowledge you've gained you're still working for @#$ckwits who don't understand anything about code, testing, continuity, etc, and regard you as glorified bricklayers. At least the "admin" jobs can't easily be outsourced to eastern Europe or SE Asia as they're hands on.

I wouldn't tell anyone in a first world country to get into coding. Hell, it's my first love but the opporunities in it seem to get worse every year.

[NordieBoy]

It's simple really....ditch your PC (or if you can't bear to part with it, keep it for games) and buy yourself a Mac!
Elegant, intuitive, simple to use, stable and virtually virus free.
Make the change like many PC users...once smitten you'll never go back!

Not when you've mortgaged the house to get it you won't.

Any $800 Macs with 17" LCD's out there?

[NordieBoy]

I liken a lot of PC users to Harley riders. They don't like the idea of something being better or even superior. So they blinker themselves to it and throw scorn from a position of ignorance. Hehe.

Mac users ride Vespa's :scooter:

Linux users ride skinnable GXSR 1000's.

:D

[imdying]

Then you work a few years, realise that for all the knowledge you've gained you're still working for @#$ckwits who don't understand anything about code, testing, continuity, etc, and regard you as glorified bricklayers.Always remember that not everywhere is the same. For sure there are some shitty places to work for, but you can always move easily in this industry :yes:

[NordieBoy]

Apple are turning into nothing other than an alternative OS for x86 hardware. Hopefully they will go the way of BEOS.
Open source?

Cool.

[NordieBoy]

I run a business repairing windows pc's. I own a mac. Not only is it easier but also safer for me to run everything through my mac.

I connect the computers to my mac via my network and I can work remotely on them as well as backing up the customers data through my network onto a large external drive. If it was a windows network, I would be exposing my 'pc' to all sorts of nasties!
I run a business repairing computers. I own several PC's. Not only is it easier but also safer for me to run everything through my PC.

I connect the computers to my PC via my network and I can work remotely on them as well as backing up the customers data through my network onto a large external drive. If it was a windows network, I would be exposing my 'pc' to all sorts of nasties!

Power to the Penguin!

[jrandom]

I wouldn't tell anyone in a first world country to get into coding. Hell, it's my first love but the opporunities in it seem to get worse every year.

With all due respect, that's a ridiculous statement. Quite a lot of hardcore software development goes on in NZ.

Maybe you're just not quite as good at it as you'd like to think...

[Drunken Monkey]

2. Low Level Formatting is BAD, and generally isnt done outside of the manufacturers factory / repair depot, cept by stubborn old coots who think they know best because thats what they used to do to their MFM/RLL Boat anchors.


Oi, winkle! I'm not that old...

But yes, I agree with Fish's diagnosis on page 6, an LLF isn't required.

I would pull the HDD drive out, stick on a converter and load it as a slave in my test desktop. I could clean up the disk from the working O/S, restore an image or whatever (guess you need an image in the first place to restore from, but whatever...)

PS - Where's that anchor...?

[Lias]

Open source?

Cool.

They open sourced beos after it went bung? Thats kinda cool.

[Sniper]

Cool, so I managed to get my hands on a WinXP install disk, it was the MSDN disk but it had XP on it and it actually worked...... until I got to the part of entering my cd key which I presume is the product key on the sticker on the underside of the laptop. Apparently that is now incorrect according to the setup program.

Would it be a plan if I try installing XPsp1a on the laptop on the off chance the arseholes claim that XPsp2 was installed but it wasnt.

Im starting to think that I might have to pay someone.

[Lias]

Cool, so I managed to get my hands on a WinXP install disk, it was the MSDN disk but it had XP on it and it actually worked...... until I got to the part of entering my cd key which I presume is the product key on the sticker on the underside of the laptop. Apparently that is now incorrect according to the setup program.

Would it be a plan if I try installing XPsp1a on the laptop on the off chance the arseholes claim that XPsp2 was installed but it wasnt.

Im starting to think that I might have to pay someone.

Your key is probably an OEM key if its on a COA on the case of a major pc manufacturer, and you will need an OEM version of XP (rather than a corporate, or retail version).

[imdying]

Different versions of XP have different key hashes.. for example, XP Pro standard keys don't work with XP Pro corporate... which is why a stolen key often will not work with the version of XP you have.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=xp+pro+cd+key&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Knock yourself out ;)

[Ixion]

MSDN send you keys for the disks in the MSDN set. A OEM key won't work with the MSDN disk. Get the key from whoever gave you the disk (it's actually vaguely semi legal - you are only setting the laptop up to be used by the MSDN subscription owner for software development aren't you )

[NordieBoy]

They open sourced beos after it went bung? Thats kinda cool.

Just checked.
Not open source but a version is still being developed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YellowTAB_ZETA

[Sniper]

Your key is probably an OEM key if its on a COA on the case of a major pc manufacturer, and you will need an OEM version of XP (rather than a corporate, or retail version).

Dammit! Im going to ring NEC and see if they can help


Different versions of XP have different key hashes.. for example, XP Pro standard keys don't work with XP Pro corporate... which is why a stolen key often will not work with the version of XP you have.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=xp+pro+cd+key&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Knock yourself out ;)

Legend, thanks, I'll try that out later


MSDN send you keys for the disks in the MSDN set. A OEM key won't work with the MSDN disk. Get the key from whoever gave you the disk (it's actually vaguely semi legal - you are only setting the laptop up to be used by the MSDN subscription owner for software development aren't you )

Unfortunatly, he doesnt have the key, he used his own too, and that worked.


Please dont tell me I need to go out and buy XP

[Sniper]

Anyone have the MSDN key please, or will the key be flagged when windows validates my version when downloading upgrades

[Clockwork]

Then you work a few years, realise that for all the knowledge you've gained you're still working for @#$ckwits who don't understand anything about code, testing, continuity, etc, and regard you as glorified bricklayers. At least the "admin" jobs can't easily be outsourced to eastern Europe or SE Asia as they're hands on.

I wouldn't tell anyone in a first world country to get into coding. Hell, it's my first love but the opporunities in it seem to get worse every year.

Fully endose this statement. Its not the job that sucks so much as the twats who can't do your job but have no trouble telling you how you should do it.

[jrandom]

Please dont tell me I need to go out and buy XP

I can give you a copy of a hacked no-key-or-activation-required XPSP2 CD I picked up in China, if you like. It's a handy thing to have around, although using it on one's main workstation tends to give one a slightly dirty feeling.

[Sniper]

I can give you a copy of a hacked no-key-or-activation-required XPSP2 CD I picked up in China, if you like. It's a handy thing to have around, although using it on one's main workstation tends to give one a slightly dirty feeling.

I might take you up on that offer. Might send you a PM before the end of the day. Im just going to contact NEC and see what they say and what replacement OEM disks would be worth.

[jrandom]

replacement OEM disks

Yup, best solution, if you can get hold of them.

[Sniper]

Yup, best solution, if you can get hold of them.

I will be a bit pissed off if I need to pay for them, but I might flick this laprop off soon and start looking at something a bit more modern.

[Sniper]

Now getting everything checked under manufacturers warrenty after I bitched to NEC. They were really good, even after admitting that I tried another disk and tried to reset partitions in attempt to get it to work.

They said as long as I didnt open it, it should be fine, its only 2 weeks out of manufacturers warrenty

[scracha]

With all due respect, that's a ridiculous statement. Quite a lot of hardcore software development goes on in NZ.

Maybe you're just not quite as good at it as you'd like to think...

Well if you're gonna get personal. Uni at 16 (and a proper one...not like them glorified polytechnics they call uni's here that don't like to be compared to other international uni's), working for a bluechip company at 21 doing embedded codefor parallel processors, Bell labs at 24 (IP telephony including various jaunts abroad to bugfix). I used to think I was $hit hot, now I'd say I was average after having worked with some real coding guru's.

Thing is, there's PLENTY of real coding guru's in the 3rd world willing to work for peanuts. NZ wages are a pittance and that's one aspect of why coders here still get used (luckily the cost of living is cheaper)....it's probably the cheapest country to find English speaking coders. Back in the UK they seem to all want coders with $hitloads of experience as well as whatever latest programming language/technology is in fasion for crap money like 35K (UKP). Considering the long hours and new skills that constantly have be learnt (for most coders that means in their own time) that's pathetic. A time served plumber or electrician earns far more. Yeah, they start coders on decent money but it doesn't increase that much for most (there's always exceptions) and a hell of a lot of the really good coders get burn't out. It's a sad fact but the engineers who develop the products get far less money than the marketing and salespeople.

I guess we'll see what the situation is like in another 10 years. Myself, I think all but the most specialised will be farmed out to Eastern Europe, etc.

[jrandom]

I used to think I was $hit hot, now I'd say I was average after having worked with some real coding guru's.

Me, I've always found that guys I have real reason to respect, professionally, don't even think in terms of whether someone's 'shit hot' or not. I certainly avoid trying to blow my own trumpet in that respect. I measure people's worth in terms of their ability to deliver on a requirement. Too many 'shit hot' guys are people I'd never want on my team if I was developing something I'd personally invested in the success of.


NZ wages are a pittance

Pardon? Life is pretty good on $85-100K in NZ. Even in Auckland. It's not hard to get, particularly if you don't mind a bit of hourly-rate contracting.


Back in the UK...

Ahhhhhh. It all becomes clear now. You're a whinging Pom.


It's a sad fact but the engineers who develop the products get far less money than the marketing and salespeople.

Pig's arse.

You're waaaay too cynical. Bad stuff happening to you (as it obviously has) is no reason to be such a wet-blanket on the whole industry. Personally, I've always found my career as a software developer rewarding. More or less. Beats the shit out of being a lawyer, anyway.

[scracha]

Me, I've always found that guys I have real reason to respect, professionally, don't even think in terms of whether someone's 'shit hot' or not.

Yeah but everyone thinks they're shit hot in their early 20's. Then reality sets in :-)



Pardon? Life is pretty good on $85-100K in NZ. Even in Auckland. It's not hard to get, particularly if you don't mind a bit of hourly-rate contracting.

Erm...that's not a point I was arguing about. Life's good in NZ on that money. Life's average to $hit in most other 1st world countries on that money


Ahhhhhh. It all becomes clear now. You're a whinging Pom.

Not sure If I'm a pom. Depends on your definition.



Pig's arse.
You're waaaay too cynical. Bad stuff happening to you (as it obviously has) is no reason to be such a wet-blanket on the whole industry. Personally, I've
Yer..my glass is normally half empty. Maybe I saw too many middle aged coders (a.k.a. way more experienced and better paid than moi) in London hit the dol(e)drums after the 2000 downturn.

[Sniper]

$160 for a DC port installed :eek5: Apparently thats been the source of strange ghoulish goingons with in my laptop

Now I know Im in the wrong profession

[TerminalAddict]

I'll just chime in here and say

I'm pretty sick of watching sales people get $100K + when I don't

I've heard plenty of them harp on about how I wouldn't have any work to do if they weren't out selling.
Well they would have anything to sell if I weren't in here coding.

employers need to see the benefit of all the team members, not just the ones that wine and dine the customers

[jrandom]

I'm pretty sick of watch sales people get $100 + when I don't...

You're probably an smelly, diffident, socially inept chap with no particular genius. A good salesman, on the other hand, is often a cunt, but can directly influence a company's fortunes toward success or failure.

You also forget that almost all of your hated salesmen's incomes come from performance-related criteria like commissions. You have the luxury of going home at night and playing with your X-Box, secure in the knowledge that next month's salary will be the same as the last, and that your job is probably secure in the face of anything but ridiculously blatant stupidity.

Life's a bitch. Either make that fact work to your benefit, or get over it.

[Kingslander]

Ask everyone you know for anyone who works in the ACC for some inside help. ditto to yous reading this reply - do u know anyone who works within acc who might be able to help?

[jrandom]

Ask everyone you know for anyone who works in the ACC for some inside help. ditto to yous reading this reply - do u know anyone who works within acc who might be able to help?

That was the most impressively random response I've seen in a while.

Are you sure you posted to the right thread?

[TerminalAddict]

fish:
I know my place in life and have accepted my "lot" .. and after all its not a bad "lot"
but sales people can fuck off with the superiority attitude.

I don't have the luxury of turning off at night as I'm at "that" age when bosses seem to think I'm the best choice for after hours call out :(

sure I don't have a performance related income .. unless of course I'm one of those contractor types who get paid big bucks, and must perform or the contract doesn't get renewed. And yet even still, when I have been a performance related contractor, the sales people gave me that "you need me, I don't need you" attitude.

maybe its just a vodafone thing ;)

[jrandom]

but sales people can fuck off with the superiority attitude.

Oh, agreed. Absolutely. Never met a sales guy I liked. I just don't feel right whinging about the pay.

From what I've heard, Vodafone NZ is a pretty nasty lair of general corporate bullshit. Most telcos are, though.

[scracha]

secure in the knowledge that next month's salary will be the same as the last, and that your job is probably secure in the face of anything but ridiculously blatant stupidity.


Like outsourcing to a third world country. Thank @#$ck NZ is pretty much third world.

[scracha]

Oh, agreed. Absolutely. Never met a sales guy I liked. I just don't feel right whinging about the pay.

From what I've heard, Vodafone NZ is a pretty nasty lair of general corporate bullshit. Most telcos are, though.
Erm.. yeah. I used to work for Lucent/Avaya. Shiny slimy salespeople were like cockroaches. We couldn't understand the need for "channel" and all the fuckin middlemen resellers. If they'd put our product on a website or on the shelves of Tesco and it would have flew of the shelves as it was well engineered and easy to install.

Resellers get awfully upset if you develop a product that actually has no bugs and is easy enough to use without them being able to supply add on "support" and "training" packages.