Special pools for different religious beliefs

[LilSel]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10418641

:gob: .... So what if a pool was just full of muslim women?? could they wear normal swimming attire?? or if they had a seperate pool... would they all still have to wear the body covering suits??... what if the lifeguard was a woman but not muslim?.. *scratches head*... :mellow:

[Paul in NZ]

Hey if they want to build their own pools thats cool...

[sAsLEX]

Bullshit just wear a Burqini

http://www.ahiida.com/index.php?a=subcats&cat=20

EDit maybe I should of read the whole article before going off.......

[LilSel]

Hey if they want to build their own pools thats cool...

Oh yeah I wasnt saying that it wasnt cool... Just wanting to understand the 'in's and out's' so to speak...

[Squeak the Rat]

I'm with Paul NZ. If they want to build their own pools on their own land that's fine.

If these are to be public places then they can FUCK OFF.

[LilSel]

I'm with Paul NZ. If they want to build their own pools on their own land that's fine.

If these are to be public places then they can ......

:yes: :yes: :yes: I agree....

EDIT:... still curious bout the questions in my first post tho...

[NighthawkNZ]

Bullshit just wear a Burqini

http://www.ahiida.com/index.php?a=subcats&cat=20

EDit maybe I should of read the whole article before going off.......

They look like Noddy suites???

[NighthawkNZ]

I'm with Paul NZ. If they want to build their own pools on their own land that's fine.

If these are to be public places then they can FUCK OFF.

I agree.... :yes:

[Finn]

I think the Muslims have learnt well from the Maoris.

[Paul in NZ]

Piss off? Meh - yes and no... If we had buckets of $$ sloshing about no problems but the fact is the community cannot cater to every need of every minority. At least on the face of it... However, competitive swimmers are catered for (occasionally) in public pools to the detriment of casual swimmers so why not?

There is a growing industry in providing services to Islamic peoples so if someone can make a $$ out of it why not. Maybe a quiet time slot can be put aside for a specific group? Maybe they could rent a pool? Maybe someone could set up a gym for Islamic People? Could be some coin in it (but I doubt it)

Doubt I'd get bent out of shape about it though.

Paul N

ps - heres a thought. Instead of all covering clothes why not dye the water so you can't see through it?

[Paul in NZ]

I think the Muslims have learnt well from the Maoris.


Shit you are onto something there Finn. The Maoris have claimed the real foreshores and now the bloody Muslims are after the artifical ones dammit.

[NighthawkNZ]

ps - heres a thought. Instead of all covering clothes why not dye the water so you can't see through it?

Or turn it into Gelo and have Gelo fights... I'd watch that :D

[Finn]

I reckon with years of repression, most Muslim woman would be sexual deviants. Might be worth a crack if you could find a good looking one that didn't smell funny.

[crashe]

So they are worried their own muslim women are getting unfit and gaining weight.

So what is wrong in getting out there an pounding the streets (walking)
Or maybe change their diet as well.......... if they are eating to much junk food.

We are taught from early childhood in NZ, not to be fully clothed when swimming as it can lead to getting into serious trouble and sinking or drowning.

So how the hell do they expect to swim in their black gowns (or whatever they are called).

If they are that worried then build their own swimming pools at their OWN costs and not at local government or tax payers money.
They can do their own fundraising for it.

If they think that local swimming pools be shut at certain times just for them..... then no way.

Sorry but they moved to live in NZ, then become NZers well then they can blardy live as we do.
Swim in togs.

[NighthawkNZ]

Sorry but they moved to live in NZ, then become NZers well then they can blardy live as we do.
Swim in togs.

Yup... When in Rome...

[Squeak the Rat]

However, competitive swimmers are catered for (occasionally) in public pools to the detriment of casual swimmers so why not?

Every time I go down to the public pool there are all types of people using it. From olympic atheletes (sometimes in squads) through to the big fat lady aqua jogging at the end lane. All these people happily share the facilities. If one or more of them harbours some beliefs that they can't swim with me or the other 50 people in the pool then I refer to my earlier statement about what they can do.

If there was some physical or mental issue then fine. But we're talking about beliefs. It's these muslim women's beliefs impose restrictions on them. That's ther problem, not mine.

I guess if it's pool policy to allow itself to be hired then well (shrug). But the day I can't get into the pool because it's "muslim day" is the day I go shihad.

[WRT]

Might be worth a crack if you could find a good looking one that didn't smell funny.

Nothing worse than a woman with an ugly, funny smelling crack. Learn some personal hygiene, people!

[LilSel]

Good points Crashe!!

Im still curious bout whether if a group of muslim woman were together... could they then swim in whatever?... or naked?... what if there was a pool of muslim women... and a non muslim woman lifeguard??... or is it only men they have to cover up in front of?? what about children?...

[ZeroIndex]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10418641

:gob: .... So what if a pool was just full of muslim women?? could they wear normal swimming attire?? or if they had a seperate pool... would they all still have to wear the body covering suits??... what if the lifeguard was a woman but not muslim?.. *scratches head*... :mellow:

What do you call a pool full of muslim woman?




That's how I read that line.. please, someone think of a really bad/fitting punchline for this joke :Punk:

[Squeak the Rat]

Swim in togs.
Undies....

[Hitcher]

EDIT:... still curious bout the questions in my first post tho...

Does the light in the fridge go out when you close the door?

If a tree falls in a forest when there is nobody there to observe, does it still make a noise?

Is it possible to have a catastrophe that doesn't involve humans?

[Paul in NZ]

Every time I go down to the public pool there are all types of people using it. From olympic atheletes (sometimes in squads) through to the big fat lady aqua jogging at the end lane. All these people happily share the facilities. If one or more of them harbours some beliefs that they can't swim with me or the other 50 people in the pool then I refer to my earlier statement about what they can do.

If there was some physical or mental issue then fine. But we're talking about beliefs. It's these muslim women's beliefs impose restrictions on them. That's ther problem, not mine.

I guess if it's pool policy to allow itself to be hired then well (shrug). But the day I can't get into the pool because it's "muslim day" is the day I go shihad.

<embed src="http://www.shihad.com/downloads/mp3/01_ShihadSampler.mp3" autostart="False" ></embed>

No they don't - some people get quite snotty about sharing it as has been the case in our locality of late. Plus I don't want to share it with those water polo kayak guys... Yikes...

Point is, they could set something for themselves, arrange a private session etc - plenty of groups do that and i don't see the problem. After all - Those bloody Roman Catholics have their own pools inside their bloody churches for dipping babies in and the less said about the baptist's pools the better...

[LilSel]

Does the light in the fridge go out when you close the door?Yes

If a tree falls in a forest when there is nobody there to observe, does it still make a noise?Yes

Is it possible to have a catastrophe that doesn't involve humans?Yes

................

[Ixion]

Years ago (and for all I know, still) the Tepid Baths had a "Womens'" pool - women only. And the Blue Baths in Rotorua did , too.

[Finn]

Years ago (and for all I know, still) the Tepid Baths had a "Womens'" pool - women only. And the Blue Baths in Rotorua did , too.

And Woman weren't allowed to vote. Ahhh the good ol days. Now look what they've done.

[Cibby]

i went to waiwera a week or so a go and there were three obviously muslim women, they wore like half length boardshorts, and full length rashie shirt and a lycra head scarfe.. would have been uncomfortable but they seemd to be having a good time.

Agreed wth some of the previous coments, there are othe rforms of exercise, it is their own beliefs that are restricting them not ours and why should we as NZ'ers have to adjust for them.

grrr.

[Paul in NZ]

iwhy should we as NZ'ers have to adjust for them.

grrr.

Because they are new zealanders as well and we all make little adjustments for each other every day anyway... It's just the size of the adjustment thats the issue. We happily give handicapped people special parks etc. Motorcyclists get special parks and sometimes bus lanes. Its a big world, a little give and take does not hurt. It goes wrong when it gets out of balance and people start demanding stuff or refusing to budge

[Matt Bleck]

Good points Crashe!!

Im still curious bout whether if a group of muslim woman were together... could they then swim in whatever?... or naked?... what if there was a pool of muslim women... and a non muslim woman lifeguard??... or is it only men they have to cover up in front of?? what about children?...

It's men that they have to cover themselves up from.

[Ixion]

What about Muslim lesbians? Non-Muslim lesbians? gay men ?

[Matt Bleck]

they get stoned

[Ixion]

Very old men ? Blind men? Small male children ? Eunuchs ? Finn ?

[Steam]

Hi Squeak, your song thing is frustrating because it tries to load over my slow connection and jams everything up and I can't see the page until the song has finished uploading. That's a long time.
I think there's a site rule, you gotta set it to OFF when posting embedded music, and then people can click the play button themselves if they want to hear it. Thanks from Steam.

[Jantar]

they get stoned Is that a punishment? Or a reward?

[Paul in NZ]

they get stoned


Wonder what happens to Muslim drug addicts then?

[NighthawkNZ]

My religous believe that pools should have heaps of spunky naked females running round meeting your every need... :innocent: :dodge:

[Finn]

Small male children ?

Isn't it amasing how Muslim kids blow up so early these days?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I reckon with years of repression, most Muslim woman would be sexual deviants. Might be worth a crack if you could find a good looking one that didn't smell funny.

Should smell alright after a 'wee' dip in the pool!:shutup:

[mstriumph]

they get stoned ... but :mellow: i thought that doing drugs was against their religion?? .....

[LilSel]

Is that a punishment? Or a reward?


... but :mellow: i thought that doing drugs was against their religion?? .....

The stoned/stoning that he is refering to is horrible... and it still happens in those countries... they cover the person in dirt so just their heads are sticking out... then throw stones/rocks at them till they die :angry: not nice...

[Squeak the Rat]

Hi Squeak, your song thing is frustrating because it tries to load over my slow connection and jams everything up and I can't see the page until the song has finished uploading. That's a long time.
I think there's a site rule, you gotta set it to OFF when posting embedded music, and then people can click the play button themselves if they want to hear it. Thanks from Steam.

:gob: It is set to OFF as per the site rules!!!! Works ok for me, I need to click the icon to activate it then click to play...... hmmmmm.

Tis a fairly big file so will delete, no one thought it was funny anyway :( ps - you may want to remove from your quote, because that'll just load it again.


Back on topic - The herald article is taking up prime position on their website. They're achieving their ethical journalistic task of winding up kiwis by publishing articles to stimulate racial views. On 'ya herald, you guys are real journalists through and through.....

[iwilde]

... but :mellow: i thought that doing drugs was against their religion?? .....

It is, but it has the ten comandments stopped murder...etc...with Christians?

[iwilde]

The stoned/stoning that he is refering to is horrible... and it still happens in those countries... they cover the person in dirt so just their heads are sticking out... then throw stones/rocks at them till they die :angry: not nice...

Works for them, may work for us to...eg...Graeme Burton

[NighthawkNZ]

It is, but it has the ten comandments stopped murder...etc...with Christians?

:shutup: :shutup: :shutup: :shutup:

[LilSel]

Works for them, may work for us to...eg...Graeme Burton

http://www.attackmachine.com/images/Tehran-stoning.jpg

:no: :no:

not nice.....

EDIT: nothing graphic or anything like that...

[iwilde]

http://www.attackmachine.com/images/Tehran-stoning.jpg

:no: :no:

not nice.....

EDIT: nothing graphic or anything like that...

I think we should be more worried at the shit thats going on in this country first before condeming the way others run theirs

[LilSel]

I think we should be more worried at the shit thats going on in this country first before condeming the way others run theirs

:yes: Yup... just pointing out the 'they get stoned' is not they have a big fat joint and get high!:whocares:

[Squeak the Rat]

Maybe that's why they wear those burkhas, because their eyes are soooo red, man...... :doobey:

[Finn]

http://www.attackmachine.com/images/Tehran-stoning.jpg

:no: :no:

not nice.....



But I like the way they think...

[LilSel]

I have a spa pool at home... maybe I could hire it out.... :Punk:
No good for 'swimming' as such... but treading water maybe?... lol

[LilSel]

But I like the way they think...

:shutup: lol..... !!!

[mstriumph]

why do they just leave the head sticking out?

is it to make it more a game of skill?

do you get points for hitting, say, the nose?

............. is there a major prize? does the winner get awarded both ears and the tail?


well - i'm guessing it'd stop recividism .........:sunny:

[Clivoris]

I think the Muslims have learnt well from the Maoris.

BULLSHIT! I've yet to see a decent Muslim haka and their teams in the Rugby League World Cup were crap.

[Clivoris]

they get stoned

Not just the Rasta's then? That's the religion for me.

[candor]

Very old men ? Blind men? Small male children ? Eunuchs ? Finn ?

No - family members don't count. I've seen pictures of our grandparents generation swimming and they were almst as bad - except for the head gear.

Lilsel - it's because their men are so excitable. Touching a taxi drivers hand as u pay in Cairo is... well... it has funny effects. To them they have just engaged in a porn movie.

So the women cover up mainly in order to protect these vulnerable creatures from having impure thoughts - that could damn them. Very considerate really.

Ones I talked to over there also put a feminist slant on it - they said they prefer to be judged for their brains than their boobs. Prolly Western influence?

Not sure why this is news - are they just trying to say - hey hellloooo, we're in town - notice but don't go looking at us!

[The_Dover]

I'm all for giving the muslims their own pool.



Let's just make it the one at Kelly Tarltons with all the sharks in it.

[Clivoris]

I'm all for giving the muslims their own pool.



Let's just make it the one at Kelly Tarltons with all the sharks in it.

Oooh grumpy. Too much time in the shallow end of the gene pool perhaps?:blip:

[The_Dover]

I'm not grumpy.

Just a racist, xenophobic misogynist.

[Flatcap]

But I like the way they think...

Nicely placed pog-face in that Finn...now if only we could convince Uncle Len to wear a full burka...or perhaps a plastic bag...

[Skyryder]

The question no one has asked is why is this pool thing in the news? Answer they want some of our money and this is a public relations job about getting it.

Am I wrong. Bets any one??

Skyryder

[Squeak the Rat]

What do you call a pool full of muslim woman?

Swimarama-dan.

[Dafe]

1) Fill their taxpayer funded bathtubs in their taxpayer funded homes & open the taxpayer funded windows to let the amazingly non-taxpayer funded sun in.

2) Allocate a Muslim only swimming beach e.g. Houghton Bay.

3) Emigrate back to their muslim countries & use their own.

4) Build their own pools.

5) Visit TePuni Kokiri and pickup a claims form and log a claim for the Henderson , Kilburnie and QE2 pools.

6) Tell them to GF!

[Paul in NZ]

The question no one has asked is why is this pool thing in the news? Answer they want some of our money and this is a public relations job about getting it.

Am I wrong. Bets any one??

Skyryder

Yes you are wrong. They are tax / rate payers as well and thus entitled to express an opinion on the use of public funds.

[Fat Tony]

Sorry but they moved to live in NZ, then become NZers well then they can blardy live as we do.

Totally agree with you Crashe - even though I'm not in NZ yet so don't really have the right to comment :)

The UK is being torn apart by the "we're doing our thing our way here - you do your thing your way there" attitude. It just drives communities apart.

Best not to get me started on this one, it really pisses me off that people refuse to integrate and adopt the lifestyle of the country that they move to (or have even bothered to learn the language - even after being here for 30+ years. Madness. The amount of money being used for translation services in hopspitals alone is phenominal)

Christ, I hope we're successful in integrating when we move over after having post that, lol

[Paul in NZ]

Totally agree with fat tony but..... Within any community there are differences. Some monor some larger, some racial / religious and some not. Its the degree thats the difference.

Christ - if some Muslims (every muslim I have met personally has been a decent person) want to explore a swimming pool ideal go for it but getting all wound up about it is hardly worth it. Just because they follow a different god they are allowed to vote and have their say. They are citizens FFS

After all - you don't need to go far in NZ to find people that hate whinging poms that come out here and spout on about how it's not like home etc etc.

[crashe]

Totally agree with you Crashe - even though I'm not in NZ yet so don't really have the right to comment :)

The UK is being torn apart by the "we're doing our thing our way here - you do your thing your way there" attitude. It just drives communities apart.

Best not to get me started on this one, it really pisses me off that people refuse to integrate and adopt the lifestyle of the country that they move to (or have even bothered to learn the language - even after being here for 30+ years. Madness. The amount of money being used for translation services in hopspitals alone is phenominal)

Christ, I hope we're successful in integrating when we move over after having post that, lol

Well if you can speak english....... then you have a head start.......... :whistle:

You will fit in fine in NZ....... just remember thou that we have certain sayings that mean something totally different to what it means in the UK........ :whistle: so do be aware of that..... and be ready to duck....... :rofl:


So where abouts are you looking to settle when you finally get to NZ?

[Skyryder]

Yes you are wrong. They are tax / rate payers as well and thus entitled to express an opinion on the use of public funds.


Of course they are allowed to express an opinion on the use of tax/ratepayers but that is not what I have heard in the news items that I have read or heard. I would venture an opinion that this (use of tax/ratrepayers money for an exclusive pool for muslims) has not been expressed in any way. So I come back to my original opinion, is the desire for a swimming pool for muslim woman news and what was the intended purpose of this? That was the issue of my post.

I see that Gary Moore Chch Mayor has expressed an opinion that he is not adversed to closing one of 'our' public pools (day and time?)for the express use for muslims. I believe that this was the intended purpose of the 'news' and has elicited a favourable response from Moore.

New Zealand has no 'history' of segreagation. Any intrusion of this, for any reason I deplore. I think you have misinterperated my post P NZ

Skyryder

[LilSel]

5) Visit TePuni Kokiri and pickup a claims form and log a claim for the Henderson , Kilburnie and QE2 pools.


Lol... Oh... so that is what TePuni Kokiri is??... They are upstairs in the building that I work in.... hmmm... maybe I should google it... I have however been wondering for the last couple of years what it is they do.... they have really flash 'company' cars n stuff...

[ManDownUnder]

I'm not grumpy.

Just a racist, xenophobic misogynist.

You'd be part of the majority then....

Them and us... them and us... them and us... here we go again (not pointing at you Dover - I got your point, and agree with it)

Fuck's sake.

They move here so they should become one of us... Tui anyone. True to a certain extent but if that held true we'd all be speaking Maoriori... *ding* next!

If it was a case of not paying their own way we'd have to raise that argument with a LOT of people on the dole and various benefits... *ding* next!

Reasonable tolerance needs to be extended to cater to religious, cultural and personal beliefs. I enjoy pointing out some of the hypocracies in NZ, like the Maori All Blacks (whom the South African Rugby Union refused to play a few years back... abolition of apartheid brought in the requirement to not select sports teams and groups based on ethnicity.. loved that one!)

But to pretend we're all the same is BS. We're not. I don't mind some of my taxes going to activies and facilities I don't partake of such as a Muslim pool. Just as some of my taxes go toward sickness beneficiaries, and anti smoking campaigns, Drug Rehab programs, AIDS awareness, testing and containment programs, Anti violence campaigns and the associated shelters... and subsidising god only knows how many other goods and services

I too will draw on funds from time to time I'm sure - that's the way it works. This isolationist "My money is all mine" and "They believe different stuff so fuck off" is rediculous. As soon as they say "You have to believe what I believe"... that's where the line in the sand lies.

If they ask me to respect their beliefs... no problem - just don't impinge on mine as well. I expect to be able to swim at the Muslim pool if it's in accordance with their requirements (i.e. being covered up and it doesn't impinge their reasonable senstivities....).

Woopdie la.

Time for the rednecks to get back out of the sun I reckon

[Fub@r]

Yes you are wrong. They are tax / rate payers as well and thus entitled to express an opinion on the use of public funds.

And that is fair enough. But to utilise public funds to cater to a minority which will descriminate the other 95% of the poulation is wrong.

As to earlier comments about having special closed sessions of the public pools to muslims only has been running. Guy on news said they only had about 40 muslim people turn up for it through an entire year. That sort of attendance does not justify an exclusive pool using public funds.

We start catering to all minorities like this then we are going to start hurtling down the slippery slopes that the UK is already going down.

[Paul in NZ]

And that is fair enough. But to utilise public funds to cater to a minority which will descriminate the other 95% of the poulation is wrong.

As to earlier comments about having special closed sessions of the public pools to muslims only has been running. Guy on news said they only had about 40 muslim people turn up for it through an entire year. That sort of attendance does not justify an exclusive pool using public funds.

We start catering to all minorities like this then we are going to start hurtling down the slippery slopes that the UK is already going down.

No we don't

There are already closed sessions in public pools so 'special' groups can train / practice whatever - makes no difference at all to me if i can't use the pool because of a mob of muslim chicks or a flotilla of kayakers does it?

Personally I think you are all getting your tits in a tangle about stuff all. Especially since most of you have not been near a pool or are ever likely to. If a group of citizens want to improve their fitness - go for it.

[Hitcher]

We start catering to all minorities like this then we are going to start hurtling down the slippery slopes that the UK is already going down.

There is no avoiding the "slippery slope". Britain, France, Germany, in fact most of Europe and now Australia are struggling with how to deal with the issue of recent immigrants who don't speak English as their first language and who wish to retain their traditional beliefs and cultures within a population that has become increasingly diverse, liberal and catholic (note the use of a small c).

While an expectation is that new immigrants will integrate into their new country, it is becoming increasingly easy for them not to do so. That is their choice. However each generation that is born into the new environment will be more "integrated" than the one that preceded it. Time heals most things.

[Paul in NZ]

Of course they are allowed to express an opinion on the use of tax/ratepayers but that is not what I have heard in the news items that I have read or heard. I would venture an opinion that this (use of tax/ratrepayers money for an exclusive pool for muslims) has not been expressed in any way. So I come back to my original opinion, is the desire for a swimming pool for muslim woman news and what was the intended purpose of this? That was the issue of my post.

I see that Gary Moore Chch Mayor has expressed an opinion that he is not adversed to closing one of 'our' public pools (day and time?)for the express use for muslims. I believe that this was the intended purpose of the 'news' and has elicited a favourable response from Moore.

New Zealand has no 'history' of segreagation. Any intrusion of this, for any reason I deplore. I think you have misinterperated my post P NZ

Skyryder

Disagree with you.

If there is sufficient demand for a closed session at a suburban pool for a group of tax / ratepayers wheres the beef?

NZ has a huge history of segregation - as a man I cannot go to Contours and as Atheist I can't dip my head in the Catholic font. My local public squash court has a club night occasionaly and it is possible to book the whole facility for a corporate function. The Councils OWN the pools as an asset for the community and if they make a commercial decision to cater for a group that want to use a facility that is not used very much with minimal inconnvienience to others except the hate mongers why worry?

[Squeak the Rat]

I see your point PaulNZ and on the whole I agree with you.

But there is a slight difference which I don't agree with. We're talking about closing a public facility so that a certain group of people can do exactly what the excluded people would be doing.

Kayakers and swimmers are not compatible. Squash tournaments and casual players are not compatible. Corporate functions and the general public are not compatible. Ordinary people doing training or recreational laps are compatible others doing training and recreational laps.

Meh, perhaps I'm just grumpy because it's hard enough to get some un-crowded laps in at my local pool as it is....

[Clivoris]

I'm not grumpy.

Just a racist, xenophobic misogynist.

LOL. Glad we sorted that out then.

[Squeak the Rat]

:Offtopic: I thouroughly enjoyed watching Children of Men the other night at the movies. Portrayed a future UK dealing with illegal immigration problems in pretty much the same way as a certain short moustached chap from the 30's and 40's......

[Paul in NZ]

Meh, perhaps I'm just grumpy because it's hard enough to get some un-crowded laps in at my local pool as it is....

No - you have a perfectly valid complaint. However it requires that enough of you in the same situation organise yourselves and seek some remedy. If you want to reserve a portion of the pool for your exclusive use it's just a question of how much it will cost. No one (and certainly not the Muslim community) has claimed they want anything for free.

[Fub@r]

There are already closed sessions in public pools so 'special' groups can train / practice whatever - makes no difference at all to me if i can't use the pool because of a mob of muslim chicks or a flotilla of kayakers does it?


Maybe my post wasn't clear. I don't have a problem with closing public pools for special sessions. This is apparently what has been happening in this case with the muslim women, but very few actually turn up for it. Given the low attendance/demand there is no justification for the use of public funds to build a seperate exclusive pool is there?

[Paul in NZ]

There is no avoiding the "slippery slope". Britain, France, Germany, in fact most of Europe and now Australia are struggling with how to deal with the issue of recent immigrants who don't speak English as their first language and who wish to retain their traditional beliefs and cultures within a population that has become increasingly diverse, liberal and catholic (note the use of a small c).

While an expectation is that new immigrants will integrate into their new country, it is becoming increasingly easy for them not to do so. That is their choice. However each generation that is born into the new environment will be more "integrated" than the one that preceded it. Time heals most things.


Yup - I thinks its about the biggest issue the next generation will face and one that we face here too with PI immigrants. (Certainly the Maori people are struggling with those Pakeha mongrels not adapting to the local fashions)

Hate speaches on either side won't change a damned thing though. Perhaps people have to realise that some cultures don't exist well together?

[Paul in NZ]

Maybe my post wasn't clear. I don't have a problem with closing public pools for special sessions. This is apparently what has been happening in this case with the muslim women, but very few actually turn up for it. Given the low attendance/demand there is no justification for the use of public funds to build a seperate exclusive pool is there?

Exactly and any Public figure in a democracy would see themselves out of office very quickly. However I see no harm in a special interest group floating the idea publicly for debate. They made no demands - they are just testing the waters of public opinion much like anyone else would.

[cynna]

why curtain off a part of a public pool just for them. i dont want anyone looking at my white hairy legs at the pool. put up with it or fuck off

[Pixie]

Why don't they convert to Judaism?
Same fairy tail,different story teller

[Paul in NZ]

Why don't they convert to Judaism?


Hmm - all insipred now...

Close off the pool for em and afterwards tell them they have all just been baptised 'cos it was Holy Water...

Either that or let me swimm free in all public pools - they will not want to swim where my floaters have been

[mstriumph]

..............We start catering to all minorities like this then we are going to start hurtling down the slippery slopes that the UK is already going down.

i demand special, five-star, taxpayer-funded, goodies for six foot tall, middle-aged, left-handed, green-eyed, female motorcyclists with a low bullshit-tolerance level and a liking for mangos, smoked salmon and [non-vintage] champagne........... :yes:

.. but only if they have dual british/nz citizenship and a bad attitude ...... :sunny:

[Fub@r]

.. but only if they have dual british/nz citizenship and a bad attitude ...... :sunny:


Dual citizenship FTW :) just dont have the bad attitude :innocent:

[Hitcher]

What is this FTW of which you speak? Fuck the world? Fold the washing?

[Skyryder]

Disagree with you.

If there is sufficient demand for a closed session at a suburban pool for a group of tax / ratepayers wheres the beef?

NZ has a huge history of segregation - as a man I cannot go to Contours and as Atheist I can't dip my head in the Catholic font. My local public squash court has a club night occasionaly and it is possible to book the whole facility for a corporate function. The Councils OWN the pools as an asset for the community and if they make a commercial decision to cater for a group that want to use a facility that is not used very much with minimal inconnvienience to others except the hate mongers why worry?

As I understand the issue: Muslim woman are unable to use our public pools because of their 'dress code' and have called for the use of public funded pools to be made available to them for this reason. This is 'not' a muslim issue but a gender one based on the female requirments. Muslim men are also required to conform to a dress code. The problem is that once you agree to provide a servide to one gender you a bound by the the New Zealand Bill of rights to provide the same service to the other. Thus, if concessions are made to females these same concessions must also be provided to males and in this case muslim men: all on the basis of religous beliefs. So should the community also acquiesce to other religous groups also on the basis of religious beliefs. I can just imagine the uproar should a group like the Exclusive Bretheren be given exclusive use of a public ammentity (pool) based on their religous beliefs. That their general exclusion of any form of contact with the general community could be sited as grounds for use of a public ammentity such as a swimming pool.

Councils do from time to time 'hire' their facilities to groups. I am aware of one Community Collage in Christchurch that hires out a pool for muslim woman for both that students and care givers for reasons of faith.

The examples that you give for segregation are not relevant to this discussion on the basis

1 Yes you can attend Contours if you so wish,(but do you want to?) just as females can join the boy scouts.

2 As an athiest would you want to dip your head in the font and if you did you can always join the faith.


Any form of segregation be it state sponsed or self-imposed with an agreement with state or council is wrong. Should we also allow our beaches to be closed or certains sections of them to be closed because of Muslim religious sensativities?

Skyryder

PS Hate-monger: that's a pretty strong word for those that diagree with you on this one. For the record I have never 'hated' anyone in my life.

[Ixion]

So, if the councils played ball, and arranged special sessions to accomodate the request, would those sessions be MUSLIM women only, or could ANY women go along. I imagine there might well be other women who would prefer a "female only" environment : pregnant, shy, ugly, handicapped, lesbian, whatever.

That to me seems the nub of the matter: If the request is "Because of our cultural concepts of modesty, we are uncomfortable about being in skimpy clothing in the company of men", that seems to me to be one thing. If the request is "We are Muslims so we want a session for Muslims only", that is another matter.

Objections on the basis if gender equality etc, might easily be met by having a similar "men only" session : once again there might be men who would prefer to swim without women being present.

(Incidentally, "dipping head in font" does not form part of any Catholic ceremony I know of, except perhaps for baptism. But I can confidently assure you that , atheist or not, you would be very welcome at any Catholic service.)

[elle-f]

What i dont understand is their need to BE in public at all. It seems to me that their culture is based on them shielding themselves FROM the public. They need to build their own pools AWAY from the public at large.....

as for those white hairy legs......:laugh: I would be wanting to sheild those too. My hairy legs need shielding and i would rather be in a spa area that was blanketed off from the rest of the pool than actually bother shaving :laugh:

[elle-f]

I think the Muslims have learnt well from the Maoris.

You are kidding me - We dont wear covers over our faces........er maybe we do but that's only when we are being chased to hide the moko's

[Fub@r]

What is this FTW of which you speak?

FTW = For The Win

[Skyryder]

So, if the councils played ball, and arranged special sessions to accomodate the request, would those sessions be MUSLIM women only, or could ANY women go along. I imagine there might well be other women who would prefer a "female only" environment : pregnant, shy, ugly, handicapped, lesbian, whatever.

That to me seems the nub of the matter: If the request is "Because of our cultural concepts of modesty, we are uncomfortable about being in skimpy clothing in the company of men", that seems to me to be one thing. If the request is "We are Muslims so we want a session for Muslims only", that is another matter.

Objections on the basis if gender equality etc, might easily be met by having a similar "men only" session : once again there might be men who would prefer to swim without women being present.



You have hit the hammer on the nail. The dress code is to reduce sexual appreciation from the opposite sex and is gender based. This applies to both sexes but is most noticeable with females due to a greater restriction of how much can be seen in public and the general conformity of what they wear. There is as far as I know, no restriction placed on the dress code in the presence of females regardless of what faith if any they believe. This naturely leads to the other point that you raise, should days be set aside or times for public pools, where restriction of entry is gender based and not religiouse based is an interesting concept within the current debate of this thread. Whilst I am not in favour of segregation of any shape or form for whatever reason, your suggestion would seem to offer a compromise.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

What is this FTW of which you speak? Fuck the world? Fold the washing?

Dude, y'r showing y'r age. Next thing y'll be complaining about txtspk.

[Hitcher]

FTW = For The Win

Really? That's ABFL. I prefer "Fold the washing".

[KATWYN]

Togs togs togs Undies undies undies togs togs .......

Finally the women can get a refreshing swim on a hot day- I never read the link just commenting on the threads - I assume thats what its about ?

Gosh I always feel for them having to wear those burkas in the heat

[Shadows]

What we need is a great big melting pot....

I say build one, and fill it with hydrochloric acid.

[Clivoris]

What we need is a great big melting pot....

I say build one, and fill it with hydrochloric acid.

You sick, disrespectful and insensitive bastard.:lol:

[Jantar]

Gosh I always feel for them having to wear those burkas in the heat
But, but, but.... They don't have to wear those burqas, they chose to.. :shutup: