Microsoft urges Vista users to remove ALL non-MS software for a better experience

[riffer]

Sorry I just had to post this (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/10/tech-microsoft.html) ...

LMAO

[James Deuce]

That's just plain unfeasible. Risible almost.

Silly people.

[kro]

Why was this dumped in PD forum?, it's topical and interesting.

[GR81]

"craplets" haha nice!

i can see where they are coming from tho...
it's like putting "chikety china" brand bike parts on a Suzuki and wondering why they don't work properly lol

[James Deuce]

It's an "Operating System" not a motorcycle.

"Operating System" is supposed to imply something you use to run your stuff on. So long as they app talks to the O/S why should I care who wrote the app? Why should the O/S?

[Ixion]

Any half way decent OS should ring fence applications so that no matter what happens to the application , the OS and other apps won't be affected. So a crappy program may not run properly, but it won't affect the rest of the system

Sounds like they already know they have potential issues and are softening up the public to an expectation that it's someone else's fault.

(BTW , the obvious corollary of manufacturers only being able to load MS approved progranms is that users would also only be able to install MS approved programs. And I bet that MS approval for non MS programs (especially those that compete with MS ones ) would be remarkably hard to obtain. They're not called the Evil Empire for nothing)

[rwh]

Any half way decent OS should ring fence applications so that no matter what happens to the application , the OS and other apps won't be affected. So a crappy program may not run properly, but it won't affect the rest of the system

Except that lots of these craplets are things like antivirus and backup utilities etc, right? Which would have to have privileged access to do their job.


(BTW , the obvious corollary of manufacturers only being able to load MS approved progranms is that users would also only be able to install MS approved programs. And I bet that MS approval for non MS programs (especially those that compete with MS ones ) would be remarkably hard to obtain. They're not called the Evil Empire for nothing)

I thought they only cared about apps installed by the manufacturer? I've never liked those damn things when I've had to deal with windows.

Anyway, I'll stick with my system with no MS software.

Richard

[Finn]

On the contrary, I believe our lives would be a whole lot better without MS at all.

[kro]

This just smacks of compatibility issues to me. Why does it matter when the software is installed?, it still has to interface with the OS no matter what, and if it can't then that's pretty sucky imo.

I don't see how MS can bleat about this, when their very own Internet Explorer and Windows media Player fall into the same category. For virtually everyone I know with a PC, they want these two programs off thier PC, because IE has 8 mega squillion exploits out there waiting to hijack it, and WMP is raw, and only plays a handful of formats.

You can not remove IE from Windows, its tied into, and intergral to the core operating system. You can even try to tell Windows that you want your Firefox browser to be the default browser, but when you install some third party software, that requires an online registration, or similar, it will activate IE, and use it.

There is a court case pending in the US over this issue, and here is MS having a sooky lala over some small preinstalled apps.

[Lias]

This just smacks of compatibility issues to me. Why does it matter when the software is installed?, it still has to interface with the OS no matter what, and if it can't then that's pretty sucky imo.

I don't see how MS can bleat about this, when their very own Internet Explorer and Windows media Player fall into the same category. For virtually everyone I know with a PC, they want these two programs off thier PC, because IE has 8 mega squillion exploits out there waiting to hijack it, and WMP is raw, and only plays a handful of formats.

You can not remove IE from Windows, its tied into, and intergral to the core operating system. You can even try to tell Windows that you want your Firefox browser to be the default browser, but when you install some third party software, that requires an online registration, or similar, it will activate IE, and use it.

There is a court case pending in the US over this issue, and here is MS having a sooky lala over some small preinstalled apps.

I can actually understand MS having a hissy over this, because my new compaq laptop came with so much shite on it it was rediculous.. I spent the first 30 minutes installing crap I didnt need/want.. Like I shit you not _60_ diffrent game trials which all had to be uninstalled seperately. Not to mention assorted adware and advertising material.

[jrandom]

Part of the problem here is that casual computer users tend not to draw a distinction (http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2007/01/01/1393908.aspx) between software from different manufacturers.

[Fub@r]

Microsoft have the view that Windows is a perfect operating system with not one single bug and that it is everyone elses software and drivers that cause corruptions not Windows........feel another Tui ad coming along :)

[Phurrball]

This all seems to be part of the ever-expanding can of worms that grows ever more nasty and complex with every new windoze release.

I'm no geek, but there are some interesting quotes in <a href="http://www.publicaddress.net/default,3836.sm#post3836">this blog post</a> by Russel Brown pointing to '...the utility of computers ... being sacrificed on the altar of content protection.'

More security nasties to come with Vista by the looks of it...

By no means is OSX immune - look at the nasty perpetrated by Sony last year adding a kernel extension to the OS in a technological protection measure that led to an embarrassing back-down.

I'm only sad that I'm not quite geeky enough to use an OS that doesn't perpetuate this cycle. Looks like I'm stuck with the lesser of the two great evils for now...

[dawnrazor]

VISTA.....pfffft, MS still trying to play catch up - but an APPLE MAC you'll live longer - the current OSX Tiger is streets ahead of Vista and its a couple of years old already......the new OSX will be stellar

[Phurrball]

VISTA.....pfffft, MS still trying to play catch up - but an APPLE MAC you'll live longer - the current OSX Tiger is streets ahead of Vista and its a couple of years old already......the new OSX will be stellar

Yep - the lesser ofthe 2 great evils is a lot less evil :sunny:

That said, I'm still pissed with Apple for a number of reasons...I'm under no illusions that they are all as shiny, happy, and nice as they'd have us believe...

[davereid]

I still run windoze at work, as my invoicing program is a windows application. But I'm using LINUX, the Ubuntu flavour at home, and its vastly superior to Bills product. It'll be a hard ask to move me to Vista !

[Brian d marge]

I still run windoze at work, as my invoicing program is a windows application. But I'm using LINUX, the Ubuntu flavour at home, and its vastly superior to Bills product. It'll be a hard ask to move me to Vista !

So agreed with ...if it wasnt for acad and a better skype ... I would have windowz installed

Just thinking this morning on how little problems I do have with Ubuntu

Much prefer it

oh and its Freeeeeeeee


Stephen

Quote
And if someone buys a Vista PC and has a problem, they're going to blame Windows."

Yes that is true , because its doesnt work ...

[mstriumph]

On the contrary, I believe our lives would be a whole lot better without MS at all.

but every time i look at the blue sky and fluffy white clouds i'll think of them .....:sunny:


oh, sorry, that was the point i suppose .......

[John Banks]

Microsoft have a point. All this bullcrap that comes with new PCs will be causing problems - a badly written piece of software can still bugger everything up from memory usage alone, no matter the operating system.
Of course, Microsoft actively encouraging terrible software development means they can shoulder the blame, too.

[jrandom]

Microsoft actively encouraging terrible software development...

Please back that statement up by describing how they've encouraged terrible software development.

[Hillbilly]

Direct X - give me OpenGL anytime!

[limbimtimwim]

Please back that statement up by describing how they've encouraged terrible software development.Visual Basic.

[jrandom]

Visual Basic.

I concede your point.

[xwhatsit]

Another 'buntu user here -- if I were to remove all non-MS software I'd have nothing :D.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment here, though, sure, VB has been a terrible scourge and has blighted much of the software development landscape; but BASIC as language has been doing that since the late 70s and 80s when it was included on all the home computers by default, and taught in schools. If we were all taught C from an early age, there would be a lot more quality stuff out there.

Also, modern versions of Visual Studio (nevermind the language) are actually great IDEs -- although my environment of choice is still gcc+vi.

Edit: A favourite of mine, from a /. sig: `Visual Basic, like cheap beer, and Americas Funniest Home videos is an enabling technology for stupid people.'

[Bonez]

Another 'buntu user here -- if I were to remove all non-MS software I'd have nothing :D.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment here, though, sure, VB has been a terrible scourge and has blighted much of the software development landscape; but BASIC as language has been doing that since the late 70s and 80s 'Yeah MS gave there variant away then proceeded to try and force developers/users to pay for it. Least we forget............................

Some things never change. Same shit different OS.

[Pathos]

Many major suppliers gunk up prebuilt machines with craplets but at the end of the day customers will accept it for lower prices and it will continue as long as they do.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070111-8598.html

[Coyote]

Visual Basic?

[limbimtimwim]

Visual Basic?I think it is called VB.NET now.

It was not like BASIC at all. Not that I knew basic. I did some in a crappy paper at uni once. You clicked on things a lot. And you wrote 'dim' or something to define variables.

Actually, I suspect you didn't have to define variables. I remember being frustrated by it.

[xwhatsit]

I think it is called VB.NET now.

It was not like BASIC at all. Not that I knew basic. I did some in a crappy paper at uni once. You clicked on things a lot. And you wrote 'dim' or something to define variables.

Actually, I suspect you didn't have to define variables. I remember being frustrated by it.

Compared to the BASIC I knew from C64s and the like, it was not all that different. The major differences was that it was made procedural, and a modicum of object-orientation was tacked on. In short, it was a dog -- it took a simplistic teaching language (BASIC), and tried to make it into something more serious -- but still tried to make it easy to use (hence the `Visual' bit, with the clicky-draggy GUI bits). I started off in assembly, briefly fooled around with C, before being introduced to this VB shite at school and just about threw up. Now I'm at uni and am being fed Java and am reacting in a similar manner -- although Java is nowhere near as bad, I just prefer barebones C. I dislike OOP, for some reason, even in C++ form.

But yeah, VB is now VB.NET, and is really just a different way of writing C#. In fact, both C# and VB.NET both get converted into some kind of intermediate language before being converted into bytecode (or something like that, I forget). VB.NET is apparently almost unrecogniseable. Both VB and VB.NET appear to be the usual sad outcome of design-by-committee that seems to be so prevalent in large organisations such as Microsoft (although they're particularly susceptible to it).

[The_Dover]

oooh, geek snobbery.

I prefer it when you cunts just make programs that work and stop whining about about the languages you use to make them.

You don't hear engineers whining when a bridge collapses saying "i much preferred it when we made them out of iron, just like the old days, this prestressed concrete is just soooo ugly and difficult to work with"

what's that saying about workmen and tools again??

[xwhatsit]

You don't hear engineers whining when a bridge collapses saying "i much preferred it when we made them out of iron, just like the old days, this prestressed concrete is just soooo ugly and difficult to work with"

Lol, yeah you do, all those old guys who crap on about cast iron cylinder heads and how aluminium ones are a piece of shit that crack and strip threads :D

Us geeks will be as snobby as we like -- it's what keeps us (very) slightly above other geeks on the social ladder :laugh:

[The_Dover]

yeah, except they're not engineers, they're grease monkeys.

[limbimtimwim]

oooh, geek snobbery.
I prefer it when you cunts just make programs that work and stop whining about about the languages you use to make them.
<snippy>
what's that saying about workmen and tools again??A good programmer can make any language work well for them. I am sure there are many, well written programs done in VB that work flawlessly. The problem with VB it has let too many people get away making programs that sort of worked without any tuition in the art of programming. Yes, there is more than just a little geek snobbery in that.

It's kinda like letting someone who has made nice wooden deck out the back of their house go out on their next project and build a multilane motorway bridge over a deep valley out of the same materials using the same techniques and not expecting any problems.

[xwhatsit]

A good programmer can make any language work well for them. I am sure there are many, well written programs done in VB that work flawlessly. The problem with VB it has let too many people get away making programs that sort of worked without any tuition in the art of programming. Yes, there is more than just a little geek snobbery in that.

It's kinda like letting someone who has made nice wooden deck out the back of their house go out on their next project and build a multilane motorway bridge over a deep valley out of the same materials using the same techniques and not expecting any problems.

Well said. That's the best I've ever heard anyone put it.

In addition, sure, you can write a decent program in any language you choose, but certain languages are better suited for certain tasks. Trying to write say, for example, an image viewer in VB, whilst having it be good-performing, reliable, and secure, is kind of like trying to replace your piston using an adjusting crescent wrench and a screwdriver (cue Motu talking about the time he rebuilt his BSA on the side of the road with a nail file :dodge:). Sure, call it blaming your tools, but there's just some things you shouldn't use a toy language for.

Also, as lbtw said, there's the fact that it's primarily newbies who are writing programmes with it. I've said it for years about music (being a classical musician myself), but lowering the point of entry is not always a good thing. Having an enforced education before you can unleash what you've created on the world is a very good thing -- hence driver's licences. Sure, not everybody got a university education before they started writing in C (certainly not me), but you have to have a reasonable understanding of what's going on before you can write something that'll work in C. In VB, it's just a matter of pushing some mouse buttons, and copying and pasting some code, and you end up with a buggy, insecure, slow-as-shit cunt of a program that everybody in the company is forced to use.