Licence gone :-(

[ArcherWC]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

[crashe]

You have a automatic stand down of 28 days....... then after that you can apply for a 'work license'. It is expensive thou I think around $1000 to $1500 to get one.

Contact speedie as he has done this a while ago...... and he can give you all the ins and outs of what is involved.


So are you now pushbiking or catching the bus?



PS: It was only a matter of time before you got sprung......

[LilSel]

Dont you lose it at 100 demerits??...
lucky you kept it as long as you did if had 175...

[onearmedbandit]

How can you get 175 demerit points anyway?

[Grahameeboy]

You can do it yourself and just pay Court Fee of $150

[GR81]

(Details removed by request)

[pervert]

How can you get 175 demerit points anyway?


They take months to catch up with you and finally take your licence, in which time you can accumulate plenty more over the 100.

[onearmedbandit]

Oh, thanks.

[ArcherWC]

They take months to catch up with you and finally take your licence, in which time you can accumulate plenty more over the 100.
Yep thats what happened to me

[ArcherWC]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

[Grahameeboy]

I seem to recall you pm's me a while back but not sure if I replied.

Feel free to e-mail me - Grahameeboy@hotmail.com and I think I saved my application which whilst for my Daughter shows you the lay out and all you have to do is re-hash.

[Keystone19]

bye bye mr licence :-(


Bahahahahahaha...




Sorry

[Grahameeboy]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

Ring the LTSA.........

[crashe]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

N o p e . .





You are going to have to pay someone to drive you around until you get the 'work license' thats if they agree to give you one.

[WickedOne]

DOH!!! :slap: Bummer dude.

[Kflasher]

Bummer dude but we all knew it was coming...

[skelstar]

Thats a bummer mate but shit if I was self-employed and need a vehicle to service my clients, Id be bloody careful not to lose my licence.

[yungatart]

175 demerits!! Sheesh- you must be a fast rider and a slow learner!!

[GR81]

175 demerits!! Sheesh- you must be a fast rider and a slow learner!!
or is it the other way round? haha

[ducatijim]

Possibly a more mature and responsible outlook to your riding in future? Particularly when you need a licence for self employed work. Was it REALLY worth it?

[cheese]

My wife works for a lawyer, but I don't know if they can help. I'll ask.

[boomer]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

Bummer; so how many you got in total NOW?

thats gotta hurt :bye:

[The Stranger]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

And here's me thinking you had good control of your right hand.

[cheese]

Sorry My wifes work can't help. She said that you need to contact a criminal lawyer.

[GR81]

Sorry My wifes work can't help. She said that you need to contact a criminal lawyer.
that makes sense... Archer's a criminal now.

dont drop the soap brian! haha

[WickedOne]

And here's me thinking you had good control of your right hand.

Are we still talking about riding a motorcycle here?? :shit:

[The Stranger]

Are we still talking about riding a motorcycle here?? :shit:

Well any man whom can remove a bra with one hand in less than a second must have some dexterity.

[sunhuntin]

Well any man whom can remove a bra with one hand in less than a second must have some dexterity.

why would a man wear a bra? :innocent:

[LilSel]

Well any man whom can remove a bra with one hand in less than a second must have some dexterity.

What bout a woman who can remove a bra with one hand in less than a second??

[Finn]

im self employed and require transport to service my clients

You a manwhore?

Where did you get nicked?

[WickedOne]

why would a man wear a bra? :innocent:

Mwahahahaha!!!!! :killingme :killingme :killingme

[Leong]

Bugger eh!! So..... I guess all points are wiped after the 3mth suspension?? Not just 100..... so in effect you've scored an extra 75 points without penalty. Hmmm...

[ManDownUnder]

Bahahahahahaha...




Sorry

...must spread reputation around etc

... and what she said ....!

[The Stranger]

why would a man wear a bra? :innocent:

I give up. Why?

[yungatart]

Man boobs??

[pinkhoggirl]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

Mate - Having some personal experience in this department - I cant laugh - (like that nasty KEYSTONE!! - my partner in crime on the day in question!!) I'm currently attempting to delay the pick up of mine too. :doh: :whistle: I got some advice though - and you don't have to have the stand down time if you need your license to work - you need to prove that you need it though - for me thats an affidavit or statement from my boss, and you can have a temporary one in about a week - or at least thats what my lawyer said. It costs about 800 bucks. Not sure how you'd prove it in your case, but if you call the court registrar they'll tell you.

Good luck with that. Maybe we can hitch hike together??:shutup:

[pinkhoggirl]

...must spread reputation around etc

... and what she said ....!

You meanies....

[Hellraiser]

why would a man wear a bra? :innocent:

Archer has a rather large set of man brests, hence why he has a lot of clients......... lol

What did they say about the raro one?

[Hellraiser]

Mate - Having some personal experience in this department - I cant laugh - (like that nasty KEYSTONE!! - my partner in crime on the day in question!!) I'm currently attempting to delay the pick up of mine too. :doh: :whistle: I got some advice though - and you don't have to have the stand down time if you need your license to work - you need to prove that you need it though - for me thats an affidavit or statement from my boss, and you can have a temporary one in about a week - or at least thats what my lawyer said. It costs about 800 bucks. Not sure how you'd prove it in your case, but if you call the court registrar they'll tell you.

Good luck with that. Maybe we can hitch hike together??:shutup:

LOL even if he gets a work licence he's still not allowed to ride his bike .......

[Donor]

What bout a woman who can remove a bra with one hand in less than a second??

Wonderful stuff that velcro...

[apteryx_haasti]

Total noob question - if you lose your bike license, does that mean you are also not allowed to drive on your car license (presuming you have both)?

Just curious.

[Karma]

Thats a bummer mate but shit if I was self-employed and need a vehicle to service my clients, Id be bloody careful not to lose my licence.


+1

(10 chars)

[Donor]

Total noob question - if you lose your bike license, does that mean you are also not allowed to drive on your car license (presuming you have both)?

Just curious.

You are correct. Bye bye to your cage rights as well.

[BarBender]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

Very unfortunate.
I've forgotten where you live but I work in the city and live in Hillsborough. If you're close by just PM me if you need a ride etc...

[Hellraiser]

You are correct. Bye bye to your cage rights as well.


Sorry had to have a dig at this comment ...........

Driving is a privilage not a RIGHT

[crashe]

LOL even if he gets a work licence he's still not allowed to ride his bike .......

Yes he can.... ask Speedie....... he was able to ride his bike to work and home again after he had finished each shift.

[Hellraiser]

Yes he can.... ask Speedie....... he was able to ride his bike to work and home again after he had finished each shift.

No he can't cause he only has a learners and owns a gay 1000cc cock extention.......... he's been using his raro licence, so even if they give him a work one each time he gets pulled over he will get more demerits, that is if you can acumulate demerits on a work licence ........ lol

[crashe]

No he can't cause he only has a learners and owns a gay 1000cc cock extention.......... he's been using his raro licence, so even if they give him a work one each time he gets pulled over he will get more demerits, that is if you can acumulate demerits on a work licence ........ lol

Oh.. then he really needs a damn good lawyer.........:yes:

[Patrick]

Your licence will specify what vehicle rego you will use for work. It can be a car or a bike. You may need to have a log book for whichever vehicle you use though, and it is only for work and/or getting to or from it.

Not 100 percent sure, but I think you lose 100 points only... the other remaining 75 are tacked on to the next lot...so drive carefully, not much room to spare:nono: L.T.S.A. can confirm that pearler for ya...

[jtzzr]

Bummer dude , feeling the pain :bye:

[ArcherWC]

OK, i was doing nothing wrong this time, so was just pulled over for licence check, so no 28 day standown, they just took my licence as the Baliff had been unable to locate me.
He accepted my Raro licence but took that as well :-(

[ArcherWC]

And i will just get a work licence for my cage, so the Aprilia will be garage bound for three months, its a bit to obvious to ride on the sly

[Hellraiser]

ahhh so they did QVR on your bike which is why you were pulled over ....... it would have come back with this man is wanted ...... lol

[McJim]

And i will just get a work licence for my cage, so the Aprilia will be garage bound for three months, its a bit to obvious to ride on the sly

Not a problem - I'll keep it running for ya! I'll put a bespoke reg on it too for the duration so when they check they'll find it registered to a fine upstanding scottish member of the community with zero demerits.

Good enuf?

Now I just need to pop a 250cc sticker on the fairing. :rofl:

[Grahameeboy]

And i will just get a work licence for my cage, so the Aprilia will be garage bound for three months, its a bit to obvious to ride on the sly

Like I said need help with forms?

[justsomeguy]

Not 100 percent sure, but I think you lose 100 points only... the other remaining 75 are tacked on to the next lot...so drive carefully, not much room to spare:nono: L.T.S.A. can confirm that pearler for ya...

You lose them all. You start at zero after three months are over - from my experience.

Just in general FYI Archer:
You don't get your license back on the very day the 3 months end, they post it to you and you recieve it a few days later. Until you have a license you aren't allowed to drive. To avoid this go to your local driver licensing centre and get a temporary paper license until you receive yours in the post.

Rotten luck mate. Some people would still drive regardless as the chances of you getting pulled over are slim if you take certain measures. It's your call in the end to decide if you're "lucky" or a "punk" and if it's even worth considering.

Before you spend on lawyer fees you may want to go talk to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau who may be able to get you free legal advice.

[GR81]

...so the Aprilia will be garage bound for three months...
i can help you out with that one if you ever need to dust the cob webs off and need someone to take it for a 'nana's nana' blast every so often lol ;)


Just in general FYI Archer:
You don't get your license back on the very day the 3 months end, they post it to you and you recieve it a few days later. Until you have a license you aren't allowed to drive. To avoid this go to your local driver licensing centre and get a temporary paper license until you receive yours in the post.
or just take the $50 hit and say you left your wallet at home lol

[Grahameeboy]

You lose them all. You start at zero after three months are over - from my experience.

Just in general FYI Archer:
You don't get your license back on the very day the 3 months end, they post it to you and you recieve it a few days later. Until you have a license you aren't allowed to drive. To avoid this go to your local driver licensing centre and get a temporary paper license until you receive yours in the post.

Rotten luck mate. Some people would still drive regardless as the chances of you getting pulled over are slim if you take certain measures. It's your call in the end to decide if you're "lucky" or a "punk" and if it's even worth considering.

Before you spend on lawyer fees you may want to go talk to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau who may be able to get you free legal advice.

I had 2 licences...long story so kept one.....I did it all myself

[justsomeguy]

or just take the $50 hit and say you left your wallet at home lol

$55 actually - and cops don't like people who've just lost their license and are driving around without one. You don't need to be guilty, you just need to be unlucky and get the wrong cop on the wrong day.

[justsomeguy]

I had 2 licences...long story so kept one.....I did it all myself

Don't know the full story.... but if you shouldn't have had that other one and they found out while you were using it......... you may be spending some time with criminal lawyers, maybe even some criminals depending on how bad things get.

[Grahameeboy]

$55 actually - and cops don't like people who've just lost their license and are driving around without one. You don't need to be guilty, you just need to be unlucky and get the wrong cop on the wrong day.

And 6 months and no specials.

[Grahameeboy]

Don't know the full story.... but if you shouldn't have had that other one and they found out while you were using it......... you may be spending some time with criminal lawyers, maybe even some criminals depending on how bad things get.

Well I only used it after my ban for about a week waiting for licence back and I was given a 2nd licence with no explanation about 8 years ago...I thought I had lost one and found it when sorting out a draw...........in fact the letter I got from LTSA just says you can drive once your ban is lifted and you will receive your licence back within a few days, nothing having to wait before you can drive.

Anyway a bit tough if you serve your time and have to wait 4 days for the licence.

[justsomeguy]

Well I only used it after my ban for about a week waiting for licence back and I was given a 2nd licence with no explanation about 8 years ago...I thought I had lost one and found it when sorting out a draw...........in fact the letter I got from LTSA just says you can drive once your ban is lifted and you will receive your licence back within a few days, nothing having to wait before you can drive.

Anyway a bit tough if you serve your time and have to wait 4 days for the licence.

Yes, the letter doesn't say anything about having to wait, so I phoned their office and spoke to someone who didn't really know...... so went to the VTNZ/LTSA office in Botany Downs who said I'd better be safe and get the paper license.

I guess you should be ok, but I didn't want to risk another 6 months plus dramas.

[Grahameeboy]

Yes, the letter doesn't say anything about having to wait, so I phoned their office and spoke to someone who didn't really know...... so went to the VTNZ/LTSA office in Botany Downs who said I'd better be safe and get the paper license.

I guess you should be ok, but I didn't want to risk another 6 months plus dramas.

I suspect if stopped you are not driving whilst disqualified but just do not hold a licence / produce it.....

[wilber]

Guy at work had same happen to him ,went for day licence judge gave so many restrictions hardly made spending a 1000 bucks worth while ,wasnt alloyed to drive to or from home ,logbook and limit on kms from town.

[civil]

Licence? The trick is not to give them reason to stop you in the first place, that way you dont need a licence. You know my bike still works, even when I dont have my licence!!!!:gob:

To pull you over they need probable cause :nono: . Without probable cause then they have no right to restrict your freedom of movement :innocent: .
The reason you were stopped was not to radomly check your licence, but because they had cause to suspect that your licence was suspended :nono: .

It is like this; No problem with not feeding the parking meter :innocent: , ...... until you get caught :nono: . Likewise, no problem driving without a licence :innocent: , ...... until you get caught :nono: .

So do not give them probable cause to stop you, and then you wont need a licence. If you need to know how to not give them reason for probable cause, then most likely you will not be able to achive this anyway, in which case dont try it.

[ArcherWC]

Like I said need help with forms?
Yes please, help would be appreciated

[pinkhoggirl]

Not sure if you have a slightly wrong message from your lawyer, or if I am reading you wrong. The initial 28 day roadside suspension is not negotiable, there are no exceptions. The work licence can be available rather quickly once that period is over however.

Not sure - lawyers being lawyers and all...but I hope like hell your wrong (I'm not doubting you - just HOPING!). What the guy told me is that if I can prove that I would lose my job without the license, they will grant a day license and it will take about a week. Didn't mention a stand down. But haven't had to pursue it yet - long story best not told online.:shutup: :bye:

[COP_B8]

The 28 day stand down applies to the more serious reasons for loss of license such as drink driving, driving whilst disqualified, dangerous driving etc.... for losing your license only due to demerit points you do not need to wait 28 days.

In terms of the paperwork you can get the form yourself and present that with all the supporting documentation yourself to save the lawyers feesWhen assessing weither to grant you a work license they look predominently atweither you will suffer serious hardship without your license, thus you will need to prove it, affadavit 's(sp?) from employers etc, bank statements etc..... (hide any term deposits etc...)

If they grant a work license it may be limited to particular times, vehicles or routes you can travel as well as log books may need to be filled in.

If all else fails talk to a lawyer but expect to pay between $1,000.00 or $1,500.00

Good Luck!

[Lucy]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

Oh no, another delay in the next Space shuttle launch then I guess.....

[scumdog]

Oh, thanks.

Idiot down here had 245 demerits before he was tracked down.......

[onearmedbandit]

Right, so surely some of those demerit points wre racked up when he was driving. Wouldn't the info come back to you when you check his licence on the side of the road?

[scumdog]

Licence? The trick is not to give them reason to stop you in the first place, that way you dont need a licence. You know my bike still works, even when I dont have my licence!!!!:gob:

To pull you over they need probable cause :nono: . Without probable cause then they have no right to restrict your freedom of movement

Mwahahahah!! "Probable cause"? What country do you think you're in?

It's "Anywhere-anytime" baby.

Pick up heaps of disqualified/suspended/forbidden driver just by doing random stops

Your post WAS a a piss-take, right???

[Krusti]

Years ago when I lost my licence on demerits I told local community constable it only applied to state highways. Got a smile out of him anyways.

[GR81]

Mwahahahah!! "Probable cause"? What country do you think you're in?
too much american tv i think! haha

cops here can pull you over whenever they want... and they do!

[scracha]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

a) Get a chauffeur
b) Take a month's holiday
c) "accidently" break something and let ACC pay for a month's holiday

[Patrick]

I suspect if stopped you are not driving whilst disqualified but just do not hold a licence / produce it.....

Wot 'e sed... suspension or disqually is over/time served...

[Patrick]

To pull you over they need probable cause :nono: . Without probable cause then they have no right to restrict your freedom of movement :innocent: .
The reason you were stopped was not to radomly check your licence, but because they had cause to suspect that your licence was suspended :nono: .

Likewise, no problem driving without a licence :innocent: , ...... until you get caught :nono: .

So do not give them probable cause to stop you, and then you wont need a licence. .

Blardy bush lawyers... don't know shit from clay...:nono:

[slopster]

[SIZE=4][B]DO NOT drive during this period, please trust me on this one, I have family in Police HP etc, and I know that they actively seek current forbiddens. (they know who/where you are) If you are caught driving while forbidden then this little demeanor will be the least of your worries.


Speedie

I think your right about that one. I borrowed my mates car when he lost his licence and got pulled up all the time for nothing. Maybe thats why (the car looked a bit rugged too though).

[LilSel]

Wonderful stuff that velcro...

who said anything bout velcro??!.... Talent mate.... talent lol:rockon:

[JT.]

Right, so surely some of those demerit points wre racked up when he was driving. Wouldn't the info come back to you when you check his licence on the side of the road?

IIRC until you pay the fine the demerits are not tacked on but they pre-date them to when the infringement was first issued. There used to be a loop hole by writing letters + overpaying with a cheque to pro-long the process in case you were close to 100 and had some points expiring soon.

Still, 245 demerits means your IQ has to bordering on the inverse of 245, closer to zero than 1.

[ArcherWC]

Most of the points were "earned" in the cage for little things over the last couple of years, almost silly things like 100kmph on the open road with a trailer, with one biggy :shit: on the bike to finish things off :bye: .

The points just kind of crept up on me :zzzz: :innocent:

Anyway, im not complaining about the loss, it was my fault at the end of the day.

On the lighter side though, I have already started to piss my wife off telling her how to drive, LOL, a bit of her own medicine for once, LOL

[kev4eva]

so with the point system, do you get 100 points for each type of licence you held, eg: i got full car and bike licence, is that mean i get to accumulate up to 200points or only 100??

[kev4eva]

too much american tv i think! haha

cops here can pull you over whenever they want... and they do!

yup,, totally argree,, have experience it myself,,

[ArcherWC]

so with the point system, do you get 100 points for each type of licence you held, eg: i got full car and bike licence, is that mean i get to accumulate up to 200points or only 100??
nope only 100 all up

[The Stranger]

so with the point system, do you get 100 points for each type of licence you held, eg: i got full car and bike licence, is that mean i get to accumulate up to 200points or only 100??

Nice try.
We should all write the Minister of Transport with this idea, I am sure it will be amenable.

[The Stranger]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

So I take it you will be on the Thursday night ride tonight?

[Chaosmage]

On the lighter side though, I have already started to piss my wife off telling her how to drive, LOL, a bit of her own medicine for once, LOL

Careful there Archer or you may risk not getting chaufered anywhere.

[Karma]

On the lighter side though, I have already started to piss my wife off telling her how to drive, LOL, a bit of her own medicine for once, LOL


I assume she has a licence... her driving must be better than yours.

[McJim]

so with the point system, do you get 100 points for each type of licence you held, eg: i got full car and bike licence, is that mean i get to accumulate up to 200points or only 100??

Common misconception that keeps cropping up.

You do not have a separate car licence and a separate bike licence. We all have one licence to operate a motor vehicle but that licence can be expanded to include various different classes of motor vehicle.

I have one licence which is 1 & 6R. Which means I can't legally borrow ArcherWC's Aprilia (not that he'd let me of course).

[scracha]

Hmm..makes me wonder if there's much point in owning a litre bike o NZ's roads ..

:innocent:

[Karma]

on the roads? not so much, but on certain back roads it's ok, and there of course is always the track.

Same could be said for cars as well, why drive anything more than a nissan bluebird?

[McJim]

Och aye - just cane it in the twisties - they never set up speed traps in the twisties - that's where I do all my speeding.

Forced by the police to speed where it's most dangerous - blind corners.

All the speed cameras and speed traps I've ever seen are on straights - has taught me to cool it on the straight and ride to my limits on the corners.

[boomer]

on the roads? not so much, but on certain back roads it's ok, and there of course is always the track.

Same could be said for cars as well, why drive anything more than a nissan bluebird?

The point still remains, for what its worth ya might as well be riding ya 400 ;)


Hey Archer.....
Gooooooooorn BURGER

[Karma]

The point still remains, for what its worth ya might as well be riding ya 400 ;)


I only brough the gix in part for it's power, it was mostly because the 400 was too small physically.. I used to get knee cramps and that riding it, whereas the gix is bigger and more comfortable.

[boomer]

whats a gix

[Karma]

gix is a contraction of gixxer, which in itself is a nickname for a Suzuki GSXR.

[mikey]

is there any chance of getting a temp licence before the 28 days, as im self employed and require transport to service my clients

i dont quite understand.

you get 175 demerits, would it be fair to say you doint learn from your "mistakes" ie getting caught? or were they all a bunch of freakish events where the cops laser lied?
you didnt stop andf change your way of riding/driving as you might end up losign licence, ability to legally drive around, when your l;icence is worht more to you than others who arent slef employed and need to drive, yet you kept =breaking the law.

why do you care? keep driving.

[Toaster]

Dont you lose it at 100 demerits??...
lucky you kept it as long as you did if had 175...

It depends on the rate you accrue them and if and when LTSA/Police catch up with you. Some people can end up with massive demerits against their name.

[SwanTiger]

Och aye - just cane it in the twisties - they never set up speed traps in the twisties - that's where I do all my speeding.

That's crock, I lost my license going through the twisty Forest part of Old North Road on a 250cc V-Twin cruiser!

Archer I feel your pain.

When you think "Oh, I'll just pop up the road and get a drink... OH FUCK, that's right, no License" remember ... I'm out there riding :first: :Punk: :laugh:

[carver]

Well, was stopped today for a "licence check" and as i already have 175 demerit points, it was bye bye mr licence :-(

What is the fastest way to get a temp one for work without breaking the bank?

Any help is appreciated

pm sayam5, he has just lost his for 6 months!
il miss riding with ya buddy, you will come back a noob!

[slopster]

I guess once you go over 100 points you might as well keep ticking them up till you get caught cos your loosing it anyway and starting with a clean slate. As long as you put money aside for the tickets!

[ArcherWC]

Put the rego on hold today for three months

[McJim]

That's crock, I lost my license going through the twisty Forest part of Old North Road on a 250cc V-Twin cruiser!


That wasn't a speed trap per se - you had a mazda 6 with coppers in it up your arse while doing an alleged 140kph or something remember?

[Donor]

Sorry had to have a dig at this comment ...........

Driving is a privilege not a RIGHT

Sitting a license test after attaining a certain age and knowledge level is a privilege.

Driving after meeting skill tested criteria and certain financial obligations gives you rights.

All a matter of individual perception here. I for one think having my cage ticket is a goddamn curse!

[scracha]

Och aye - just cane it in the twisties - they never set up speed traps in the twisties - that's where I do all my speeding.

Yeah they do (sigh). 40 points and 300 bucks later.

My post was complete bait BTW...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=41482

[SwanTiger]

That wasn't a speed trap per se - you had a mazda 6 with coppers in it up your arse while doing an alleged 140kph or something remember?
An alleged 132 kmp/h in a recently re-designated 80 kmp/h area on a country road.

Still waiting for my day in Court.

[samwp]

pm sayam5, he has just lost his for 6 months!
il miss riding with ya buddy, you will come back a noob!

yea it sucks hard i dunno what to do with my spare time as I only work 3 days a week :( did 17000+ Ks in the last 4 months. o well I bought the bike the day I got charged (4 months ago) so everyday I was riding it was 'borrowed time' I guess. All that summer . . .

[carver]

An alleged 132 kmp/h in a recently re-designated 80 kmp/h area on a country road.

Still waiting for my day in Court.

oh...you were the guy giving me grief for 120 in a 50k zone..
let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
like my sig?

[Patrick]

oh...you were the guy giving me grief for 120 in a 50k zone..
let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
like my sig?

But you were 70km over....:nono:

[McJim]

But you were 70km over....:nono:


Carver

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth) in a 50k zone there is a high likelyhood of little kiddies and innocent bystanders moving at next to zero kph without protective clothing on - undeserved death on a stick for them if they get hit by a nutter at 120kph.

I would agree with SwanTiger (another grinding of teeth) that he was justified in 'avin' a go at you.

I have 20 years' road use in various countries and zero demerits ever, anywhere at any time...I'll happily cast the first stone (verbally) if you wish. :)

[SwanTiger]

oh...you were the guy giving me grief for 120 in a 50k zone..
Yes, that was me.


let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
Casting stones is much too elementry, if I wanted to commit grevious bodily harm I would do the job properly with a hammer.


like my sig?
Yes, as it highlights just how immature you are which explains why you did 120 kmp/h in a 50 kmp/h built up area.

[Patrick]

Carver

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth)

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaha

First time for everything...:love:

[Indiana_Jones]

I hate to think of the insurance problems you'd have after loosing ur licence etc. :(

-Indy

[ArcherWC]

I hate to think of the insurance problems you'd have after loosing ur licence etc. :(

-Indy


Nah, not so bad as it wasnt for DIC or dangerous etc, just demerits.

Also the wife works for an insurance broaker

[civil]

It's "Anywhere-anytime" baby.

Pick up heaps of disqualified/suspended/forbidden driver just by doing random stops



'Random stop' Do you think we live in some sort of police state or something?

Without nature and cause then what right do the cops have to restrict the freedom of movement and detain someone.

[scumdog]

'Random stop' Do you think we live in some sort of police state or something?

Without nature and cause then what right do the cops have to restrict the freedom of movement and detain someone.

We have every right - are you trolling??

Or do you REALLY not know???

[McJim]

We have every right - are you trolling??



Muwahahaha - from the biggest troll in the south! Too funny.

[scumdog]

Muwahahaha - from the biggest troll in the south! Too funny.

Moi? A troll?


Heaven forbid!!:innocent:

[SwanTiger]

Scumpussy is right, however if there is cause to believe that the officers actions border on the side of harassment then you can submit a formal complaint to the PCA (Police Complaints Authority).

So, the civilian majority do have some protection.

However in saying that, it is extremely easy to have a particular officer removed from the force...

Oink. Oink.

[Ixion]

We have every right - are you trolling??

Or do you REALLY not know???

Well, not quite EVERY right. The police may stop a motorist to check licence etc without any other cause required. They may detain you for up to 15 minutes if necessary to establish identity, because you don't have your driver's licence on you. Apart from that they can only give you the once over and then you are legally entitled to be on your way. All assuming that they can't find anything you have done wrong of course. If you have been drinking (at all) then things are very different. And assuming that they did not stop you because of some emergency, such as an accident or nuclear explosion. In such cases you must follow the directions of the orificier. And assuming a few other bits and pieces.

On foot (or horse) they may stop you and require you to give name address and (I think) occupation. And may of course ask any questions that seem pertinant based on what you were doing (or not doing) at the time. None of which you need to answer , of course. Though it is usually simpler for everybody including yourself if you do.

There are also various other less specific rights to stop (lots) and detain (less), but these would normally require a certain inventiveness by the cop to use outside their intended role, and they run the risk of running into a bloody minded, civil rights aware bastard like Sir Robert Jones. Or Ixion.

In general, you are not obliged to accompany them , unless you are arrested (in which case they must caution you). Always seemed a damn silly threat that . I once told a cop that I would not answer any more questions (he was just being a cunt - wanting to know where I had been, where I was going etc). So he threatened to arrest me. I laughed at him, and pointed out that if he DID, he was obliged to caution me that I was not obliged to say anything. And I wouldn't. Then he could explain to a solicitor (and the Police Whitewash Authority), WHY he arrested me. He was quite cross, but had to admit defeat. I always cooperate with reasonable cops, (and with unreasonable ones when I have done something wrong). But I see no need to cooperate with unreasonable cunts when I have done nothing wrong.

[spudchucka]

'Random stop' Do you think we live in some sort of police state or something?

Without nature and cause then what right do the cops have to restrict the freedom of movement and detain someone.

LTA 1998, section 114.

[Lucy]

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth) in a 50k zone there is a high likelyhood of little kiddies and innocent bystanders moving at next to zero kph without protective clothing on - undeserved death on a stick for them if they get hit by a nutter at 120kph.

:)

I concur. People argue that an industrial area has no kids etc etc and no-one about but that's not so. It's where other learners go to learn (cage and bike), and where security and cleaning staff and various other people who have jobs you dont even know exist have to spend time. Sure, laws are made to cover 'in general' situations, and everyone knows there are exceptions. And yet, everyone always has some sort of crap story and the truth is often the first casualty. I had some work colleagues who got quite shitty with my 'nana like' law abidingness and said things like "but at 3am in the morning who cares if I speed on the motorway" but in unguarded moments they would let slip that they actually got busted for going 90kph up the Bullock Track. (for those who don't know it, it's a narrow, steep road in Grey Lynn Auckland, next to Western Springs, houses, kids galore.)

[carver]

Carver

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth) in a 50k zone there is a high likelyhood of little kiddies and innocent bystanders moving at next to zero kph without protective clothing on - undeserved death on a stick for them if they get hit by a nutter at 120kph.

I would agree with SwanTiger (another grinding of teeth) that he was justified in 'avin' a go at you.

I have 20 years' road use in various countries and zero demerits ever, anywhere at any time...I'll happily cast the first stone (verbally) if you wish. :)

to quote clarkson (grits teeth), if kids are playing on a main-ish road at midnight, im the least of their worries!

[Patrick]

Scumpussy is right, however if there is cause to believe that the officers actions border on the side of harassment then you can submit a formal complaint to the PCA (Police Complaints Authority).

So, the civilian majority do have some protection.

However in saying that, it is extremely easy to have a particular officer removed from the force...

Oink. Oink.

Jeez Swanpussy... we aren't interested in the civillian majority. I only lock up wrongdoers, including drunk and disqualified drivers...

[McJim]

Jeez Swanpussy... we aren't interested in the civillian majority. I only lock up wrongdoers, including drunk and disqualified drivers...

But the way you fellas (Peelites) talk I'd got the impression that you considered the entire civillian majority to be wrongdoers!:rofl:

P.S. Police are really civillians too - you are not a military operation.

[Patrick]

But the way you fellas (Peelites) talk I'd got the impression that you considered the entire civillian majority to be wrongdoers!:rofl:

P.S. Police are really civillians too - you are not a military operation.

Shite no!!!! Only the ones who break the law... or look at me funny... or call me mean names:cry: Oh... no.... not those ones, I like them... I give em a bed for 5 to 6 hours at my place... with Bubba...:innocent:

[McJim]

... I give em a bed for 5 to 6 hours at my place... with Bubba...:innocent:

Hang on a mo...do you have a cellar? With a gimp? Do you ride a Chopper?
.........you're Z....Z's not dead honey!

Ewwwwwwww.

[SwanTiger]

including drunk and disqualified drivers...
So you were the one who locked up the Mokau cop huh? Tsk. Tsk.

[Patrick]

So you were the one who locked up the Mokau cop huh? Tsk. Tsk.

Nope. He was never locked up either...

[Patrick]

Hang on a mo...do you have a cellar? With a gimp? Do you ride a Chopper?
.........you're Z....Z's not dead honey!

Ewwwwwwww.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me...

[civil]

LTA 1998, section 114.


Land Transport Act 1998
114 Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc

(1)......

(2).....

(2A).....

(3)An enforcement officer may require the driver of a vehicle that is stopped under this Act to—

(a)Remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for an enforcement officer to obtain the particulars referred to in paragraph (b), or to complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act; and

(b)On demand by an enforcement officer,—

(i)Give his or her name and address and date of birth, or such of those particulars as the enforcement officer may specify; and

(ii)State whether or not he or she is the owner of the vehicle; and

(iii)If the driver is not the owner of the vehicle, give the name and address of the owner or such particulars within the driver's knowledge as may lead to the identification of the owner.

(4).....

(5)An enforcement officer may require a driver to remain stopped on a road for as long as is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to establish the identity of the driver, but not for longer than 15 minutes if the requirement to remain stopped is made under this subsection only.

So according this section of the Act, you may stop to "complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act".

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

Unless of cause they are looking to use their shiny badge pick up chicks or guys depending on their bent! :love: Or maybe collecting names and addesses for their network marketing business.

[Ixion]

Land Transport Act 1998
114 Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc

(1)......

(2).....

(2A).....

(,,,
So according this section of the Act, you may stop to "complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act".

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

,,,

You left out the rather important clauses 1 2 and 3


(1)An enforcement officer who is in uniform, or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, may signal or request the driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as is practicable.
(2)An enforcement officer in a vehicle following another vehicle may, by displaying flashing blue, or blue and red, lights or sounding a siren, require the driver of the other vehicle to stop.
[(2A)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), the driver of a vehicle that is stopped by an enforcement officer under this Act must remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the enforcement officer to complete the exercise of any powers conferred, or duties imposed, on an enforcement officer by this Act.]


So a cop who is uniform etc, or wearing a hat, cap etc (NB Mr Scumdog - skullmasks do NOT qualify, no matter how distinctive) or flashing his flashy bits may indeed stop you without needing any reason.

Once he has stopped you though he has not unlimited power to detain you. He may (under other sections) require you to produce your licence, to undergo a breath test, he may check WoF, rego, various other stuff of like nature, and rather more for a HGV.

If you have not produced your licence he may require you to give your name and address etc (this actually continues a power that was in previous Acts certainly back as far as the Transport Act 1949) . But he may not detain you for more than 15 minutes just to check out your name and address info. But if he decides to breath test you, it won't work to delay matters then claim his 15 minutes is up. That is the bit about complete the exercise of any other powers etc.

So he may stop you just cos he's bored. And take as long as is "reasonable" checking out your vehicle, breath testing etc . And detain you for a further 15 minutes checking your ID.

Those are not unlimited powers. Nor, in general, unreasonable. They can no doubt be abused. But a cop who goes too far risks encountering someone like Sir Robert.

But "probable cause" is the invention of those who have watched too many American TV shows. It has never existed in British law. Since at least Tudor times a Constable has had the right to stop anybody and demand that they identify themselves. Even if the Transport Act 1998 did not exist a Constable (though not an "enforcement officer") would be able to stop you without needing to specify any cause, under the Common Law. The acts just spell things out, and allow for flashing lights etc.

In general if stopped it is simplest for everybody, oneself included, to simply produce licence (or other ID and grovel if you have genuinely left it at home); answer any questions simply and briefly; and go on your way.

[scumdog]

Wot Mr IXION sez.

Woulda sed it m'self but hey, I get tired of repeating myself only to be shot down by arm-chair lawyers who watch too much TV.

[spudchucka]

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

Unless of cause they are looking to use their shiny badge pick up chicks or guys depending on their bent! :love: Or maybe collecting names and addesses for their network marketing business.

Something else like section 113 and others too.

Read the Act and stop watching seppo cop shows on TV.

[The Stranger]

So what about searching a vehicle?
Is probable cause required there?

For some strange reason many is the time I had a vehicle searched. Never really cared because I always had my shit well stashed and without a dog, they weren't going to find it in a roadside search.

But we would regularly get pulled over, names and addresses taken and the vehicle searched. Never charged or nothing.

What do they do with all those names and addresses anyway? They took mine dozens of times, duly wasting their time writing it down then what? Nothing.

[Ixion]

Ah, search. That's a bit different.

Several acts give police authority to search a vehicle without warrant. Misuse of Drugs and Arms Acts notably. But they must tell you if they are relying on those acts, and must have reasonable grounds (though "reasonable grounds" may be that Officer Bumblebee swears that he has a very sensitive nose and smelled cannabis).

Under certain cincumstances police may search a vehicle without warrant, if they have reasonable grounds to believe it contains stolen property.

In general the police will be cautious of making a search without authority because it may taint any evidence they do find and make it inadmissable.

However, if you give permission, even tacit permission, then anything goes. "Open the boot please, thanks" . Unless you specifically object, you've agreed.

All assuming they don't have a search warrant of course. If they have one of those they can search within its terms until their little toes turn up.

There are some other special cases, under Terrorism Laws and such. and some old ones form the 30s and 50s but they are unlikely to be relevant unless you are a Trade Union official.

And they don't need any authority for anything they can see - so if the back seat is full of VCRs they are certainly going to ask you about them.

In general, you can *probably* successfully object to having a vehicle searched. But, of course, such an objection is really going to make Officer Bumblebee sure that you have something to hide. And make his sensitive nose even more sensitive. And any subsequent search under the Misuse of drugs Act wil be *very* thorough. So it may not be a good idea.

[marty]

Well done, Ixion - very well explained.

[davereid]

Thanks Ixion, would give you more bling but can't !
What about passengers in the car ? Are they obliged to identify themselves ?

[Ixion]

A constable can require ANY person , in a car or not, to supply name and address. You don't actually have to provide any form of ID, but giving false information is a serious offence (driver or passenger).

Bear in mind that if a constable has reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed he has a LOT more power. And PC Bumblebee can be quite "creative" in discovering possible offences if people get up his nose.

Also, matters are more complex if the passengers are under age. Or if the driver does not have a full licence.

[spudchucka]

So what about searching a vehicle?
Is probable cause required there?

The Land Transport Act has no power of search.

This comes from other Acts,

Misuse of Drugs Act, Section 18(2)
Arms Act, Section 60, 60(A) & 61
Crimes Act, Sction 202(B), 225, 314(A) - (D), 317(A), 317(AA)

These are the main ones.

Probable cause, (if we have to insist on using this seppo bulshit), in the case of the misuse of drugs act usually comes from the overwhelming stench of cannabis wafting out of the piece of shit car the cop has just stopped. Once the piggies nose gets involved he / she will invoke the statutory power of search under section 18(2).

Probable cause in matters relating to the arms act or crimes act, (stolen goods in transit, persons wanted for arrest etc), will usually come from information received.

For instance a shoplifter has been followed by store security and has been seen leaving in a particular vehicle, vehicle is located by cops and stoppped for the purpuse of searching the vehicle for the goods stolen.

Or, some young street urchins are seen driving around town shooting at people with one of those soft pellet air guns, the rego and vehicle description are given to police comms who pass the description onto patrols. Patrols locate the vehicle and stop it to search for the air gun.

In both of these last instances the vehicle has not been stopped under the provisions of the land transport act but rather the crimes act power to stop vehicles for the purpose of exercising a statutory power of search, (Crimes Act, Section 314(B)).

If you read the sections of these acts that give police the power to search without warrant you will see that the common factor is "Reasonable Grounds to Believe", which is the appropiate term under NZ law, not probable cause.

[spudchucka]

However, if you give permission, even tacit permission, then anything goes. "Open the boot please, thanks" . Unless you specifically object, you've agreed.

Search by consent has to by informed consent, otherwise the evidence will not be allowed.

So, "open the boot please, thanks" would have to be followed by, "You realise that anything illegal I find in there will result in you being charged", in order for the resulting evidence to be admissible in court.

Don't forget the common law right of search pursuant to arrest either. If you get locked up on the roadside your vehicle may well be searched as well as you.

[marty]

Don't forget the common law right of search pursuant to arrest either. If you get locked up on the roadside your vehicle may well be searched as well as you.

spud already knows this but, for as long as, or until, the evidence for which you have been arrested for, has been secured.