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oldrider
21st January 2007, 16:02
Anybody on here ridden, owned, know anything, about Honda Varadero'?

Are they suitable for gravel roads etc?

Curious.

Cheers John.

merv
21st January 2007, 16:17
You hardly ever see them here but basically they are Honda's equivalent of the DL1000 and should be OK on gravel. Here's the first site I found on Google http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/hon_varadero.htm. All I vaguely heard a few years ago is that Clive Cooper-Smith from Blue Wing got one for himself at the time.

Have you found one to buy John?

Crisis management
21st January 2007, 19:35
The feb issue of Kiwi rider has a review of a new Varadero if thats of any help. Unfortunatley Big Dave didn't do the review but you may be able to get some info from him???

Good luck..

oldrider
21st January 2007, 20:51
You hardly ever see them here but basically they are Honda's equivalent of the DL1000 and should be OK on gravel. Here's the first site I found on Google http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/hon_varadero.htm. All I vaguely heard a few years ago is that Clive Cooper-Smith from Blue Wing got one for himself at the time.

Have you found one to buy John?

The local Honda agent told me he is getting a new Varadero on stock any day and I didn't know anything about them so I started looking around the Internet to see what they are about.

Surprisingly enough there is much more information that is favourable than there is negative, nearly all the reviews have been consistant with the one you have posted Merv!


The feb issue of Kiwi rider has a review of a new Varadero if thats of any help. Unfortunatley Big Dave didn't do the review but you may be able to get some info from him???

Good luck..

Yes Big Dave does a very good and honest review on the bikes he has tested, it would be good to have had his opinion on one of these.

We have not got the February issue of KR down here yet but I will start looking seriously again from tomorrow.

Frankly I will be very surprised if KR give the Honda Varadero a good review but we shall see soon wont we!.

I have been wondering about a new TransAlp but would like a bit more tit again, old habits die hard and bigger motors push so much better on the longer versions of our rides.

The TransAlp is an extremely good bike, understated and underated but there is no substitute for cubes I am afraid.

The bigger V-Strom is currently very good value for money in my opinion but I find it hard to break away from Honda! (Simply because they have served me well)

My second son is a farm manager and will probably always live at the end of a long gravel road so the Varadero would seem a better type of bike for us than say an ST1300 or the like. (one of my favourite bikes)

All the information I have read so far points to the Varadero being a very comfortable long distance tourer with reasonable gravel road manners.

I shall take a good long hard look at this bike when it comes to the local shop.

It does seem that they are quite a big bike but unfortunately I am fast becoming a very little old man, this could get tricky! :shit: Cheers John.

98tls
21st January 2007, 21:06
Just out of interest john why dont you think KR will give it a good write up.......?

merv
21st January 2007, 21:33
We haven't got Feb KR issue either so from what you say it sounds like after what seems like about 4 or 5 years Blue Wing are finally going to import them.

You've heard me going on about my XR250L, well I had an issue with Blue Wing from 1996 that they wouldn't import the electric start XR and chased Clive directly even and in 2004 when I bought the WR asked again would they import me one because they had brought a few in for the Police, but no way would they do it. Then low and behold out of the blue in 2005 they bring them here anyway.

The Varadero is a bit the same, I heard of people asking about them - no way were they coming to NZ they said, then we hear Clive got himself one, and now finally if they are importing them - what is the deal.

It always strikes me with Blue Wing they just have their approach to marketing totally screwed in this internet age - they should bring models in when they are fresh and therefore desirable in everyone's minds, but no they wait until the model has just about expired its life and then they bring them here. With internet we all know what's out there, its not like its the new surprise model.

oldrider
21st January 2007, 23:24
Just out of interest john why dont you think KR will give it a good write up.......?

Hard to explain clearly, It's not just KR.
A lot of Honda bikes are so good at doing what they were designed and manufactured, for that they appear, sterile and bland in their performance.
Bike magazine writers,(IMO), seem incapable of rising above that and pander to BMW and Harley Davidson lifestyle "brand bullshit" to waffle on about because that is what they think customers want, it makes them feel good.
Yamaha and Suzuki etc back their brands up in similar but different ways too.

I think Big Dave is a breath of fresh air as a bike review writer, full of personal integrety in his opinion.


We haven't got Feb KR issue either so from what you say it sounds like after what seems like about 4 or 5 years Blue Wing are finally going to import them.

You've heard me going on about my XR250L, well I had an issue with Blue Wing from 1996 that they wouldn't import the electric start XR and chased Clive directly even and in 2004 when I bought the WR asked again would they import me one because they had brought a few in for the Police, but no way would they do it. Then low and behold out of the blue in 2005 they bring them here anyway.

The Varadero is a bit the same, I heard of people asking about them - no way were they coming to NZ they said, then we hear Clive got himself one, and now finally if they are importing them - what is the deal.

It always strikes me with Blue Wing they just have their approach to marketing totally screwed in this internet age - they should bring models in when they are fresh and therefore desirable in everyone's minds, but no they wait until the model has just about expired its life and then they bring them here. With internet we all know what's out there, its not like its the new surprise model.

To me, something appears wrong with Blue Wing Honda and their perception of "customer value" and I think that it also plays a part in how bike mag journalists relate to Honda products in their reviews.
That is "my" perception and my perception is of course my reality, I would feel better about my choice of bike if it were a BMW, Harley Davidson, Suzuki or a Yamaha because those companies make sure their customers feel good about themselves and their choice of bike, not so Blue wing Honda (or even Honda) I am afraid!
I myself feel good when I choose Honda because I know it will be bland but reliable and serve me well for a long time, Honda do nothing for me as a loyal customer in promoting and backing up my choice in their product, the way that the other bike manufacturers do for their customers.
BMW, Harley Davidson, Yamaha and Suzuki sell a feel good factor with their motorcycles that I would love to have when I buy a Honda but what do Honda sell with their bikes?
Sterile perfection, the way they want you to have it, they know best what you need and you should just be thankfull that they are manufacturing it for you! Customer feel good factor, don't think they ever heard of it. (IMHO) Cheers John.

98tls
21st January 2007, 23:40
Good post John.............entirely agree.........the success to a degree of a bike can rest upon a journos write up.......never understood it to be honest.........case in point was the bike i ride........i am pretty sure i have just about every motorcycle mags review.....well in english anyway.....from the launch in 97 to the present day........the rotary damper recieved and still does the most criticism off all..........funny how at the launch in florida it recieved none........KB magazine way back said they had had more slapperish behaviour from a GSXr750.......hardly an ill handling bike.........but people read and believe this stuff.......can remember listening to a VTR rider telling me all about his mates TLS that had attempted to kill him so many times.......i have replaced the rotary on mine but can say that never did it give me any more of a fright than any other bike when i have given it the big handful out of a tight corner or anywere else........a journos opinion of a bike is quite simply that.........one persons opinion........often to be ignored in my opinion.........

What?
22nd January 2007, 05:44
The Varadero was released in 98. Aussie got them then or shortly after.
They are BIG bikes, but then again the V-Strom ain't little.
It looks like the price tag will be ~19 grand. That makes it 4 grand more than a V-Strom, but the Honda's standard of finish is vastly superior.
I have not ridden one in gravel, but I would be surprised if it is much different to the Suzuki (your Transalp will eat it)

Bonez
22nd January 2007, 06:19
I think Big Dave is a breath of fresh air as a bike review writer, full of personal integrety in his opinion.

Cheers John.Ever heard BDs opion about the W650? He tows the Trumpy party line every time ;).

As for "feel good" factor, isn't it up to the rider to feel good about what they ride, like you have, not some marketing bullshit (I pesonnally like Triumphs current slogon- Go your own way) the tells them how they should feel?

Edbear
22nd January 2007, 07:06
Good post John....one persons opinion........often to be ignored in my opinion.........



Quite correct, 98tls! Kiwi Rider's Jonathan Bentman reckoned the TL was a great ride and huge fun! It seemed to start in Pommieland when someone, supposedly an experienced, mature rider, killed himself on one and they tested the damper on a machine which apparently proved it to be inconsistent and contributed to massive tankslappers when powering on out of a corner.

A young friend, Classic_Z's son-in-law was looking at buying a V-twin and asked my opinion on the TL-R among a couple of others. I said he'd absolutely love it and only need to change the damper if he was planning some hard track days. He subsequently bought the TL-R and yep, loves it!

Sorry, off topic, Oldrider!:bye: Only negatives I've heard of the Varadero are its sheer size and some weaving at higher speeds. An ideal competitor for the V-Strom in NZ!

Crisis management
22nd January 2007, 07:12
Can I sell my copy of Kiwi Rider??? $50.00??? Anyone?

Having actually read the review (By Ross McKay) it's very positive, the summary is:
Heavy, 238 Kg, more V-strom than BMW GS and more capable on sealed roads than gravel. Liked the engine, ergonomics and handling but wasn't so convinced of the linked braking. Only negative was a lack of centre stand.

No price listed but Honda should have that.....

Oscar
22nd January 2007, 07:45
Ever heard BDs opion about the W650? He tows the Trumpy party line every time ;).



So what?
The Trumpy (assuming you're talking of the Scrambler) is a better bike.

Bonez
22nd January 2007, 09:30
So what?
The Trumpy (assuming you're talking of the Scrambler) is a better bike.

Shit the fish are biting early this morning. No, I was no talking about the scrambler btw.
Have they fixed the fuel cap problems yes?

Oscar
22nd January 2007, 09:54
Shit the fish are biting early this morning. No, I was no talking about the scrambler btw.
Have they fixed the fuel cap problems yes?

I didn't have any problems with the fuel cap.
The Scrambler is a fine adventure bike.

crazybigal
22nd January 2007, 10:00
how about a scan of it and post it on here?


Can I sell my copy of Kiwi Rider??? $50.00??? Anyone?

Having actually read the review (By Ross McKay) it's very positive, the summary is:
Heavy, 238 Kg, more V-strom than BMW GS and more capable on sealed roads than gravel. Liked the engine, ergonomics and handling but wasn't so convinced of the linked braking. Only negative was a lack of centre stand.

No price listed but Honda should have that.....

Crisis management
22nd January 2007, 10:22
how about a scan of it and post it on here?

That involves technology...have you seen the bikes I ride?

Given that it is yet to hit the news stand I don't think thats fair on the suppliers so you'll just have to buy one! :gob:

Oscar
22nd January 2007, 10:24
how about a scan of it and post it on here?

Buy yer own, ya cheap bastidge....

oldrider
22nd January 2007, 10:55
Can I sell my copy of Kiwi Rider??? $50.00??? Anyone?

Having actually read the review (By Ross McKay) it's very positive, the summary is:
Heavy, 238 Kg, more V-strom than BMW GS and more capable on sealed roads than gravel. Liked the engine, ergonomics and handling but wasn't so convinced of the linked braking. Only negative was a lack of centre stand.

No price listed but Honda should have that.....

Thank you, interesting stuff!

We are fickle in what pleases us, I read a short review of the TransAlp in "Bike Rider" magazine and it was the most positive review I have read on the T/A.

From an owners point of view, I was so pleased to read something positive about my bike for a change, I bought the magazine, to show other T/A owners the comments! (we all have our price and I was bought, cheaply)

Nearly all commentators on the T/A (and other brands) are sports bike riders, rather than venture bikers and they have no real appreciation of the bikes' virtues from a "fit for purpose" point of view.

I just expected the same sort of thing to be the case when they reviewed the Valadero!

After all Ross McKay could hardly be described as a venture biker! (or could he?)

Every review of the T/A, (including the one in Bike Rider) refers to the engine as "gutless" or lacking real zip, yet it does not get left behind by the bikes that they favour or compare it to.(is this just another case of Honda blandness?)

The Valadero has a litre motor so power is not the focus point of the review, I share his concern about the linked braking, especially off the tarmac and the ABS should be able to be turned off or on too.

I will be concentrating on the Valaderos ability to provide, rider and passenger protection from the elements and comfort, as a long distance tourer, capable of handling whatever type of roads "I" decide to ride it on.

So far the information, impressions, comments and reviews that I have read, all seem to support that this bike could be just what I want and need, except it doesn't have a drive shaft!

The only remaining question seems to be, am I getting too old and weak for such a big heavy bike?

Never mind, I still have my trusty old TransAlp to fall back on! (or off) :shutup: Cheers John.

crazybigal
22nd January 2007, 12:30
hey you dont ask you dont get!


Buy yer own, ya cheap bastidge....

Bonez
22nd January 2007, 19:01
I didn't have any problems with the fuel cap.
Tell that to the gent at the last cold kiwi.

Seems a few others are having issues too- http://www.triumphrat.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=58198&forum=51

Jantar
22nd January 2007, 19:24
There is write up on the Valadero in the latest Bike Rider Magazine. Although it was only tested on the seal it did get good comments. Most telling was how well it compared to a Yamaha FZ1S in the tight twistys.

It looks to be very similar to the VStrom, only its 35 Kg heavier and $4000 more expensive. It does have ABS which the Strom doesn't. Overall I believe I'd be happy to take it on any gravel roads, maybe not so good offroad.

Edbear
22nd January 2007, 19:45
There is write up on the Valadero .



Funny how one person makes a small error and it is perpetuated...
I think you'll find the bike is a Varadero?

warewolf
22nd January 2007, 21:44
Funny how one person makes a small error and it is perpetuated...
I think you'll find the bike is a Varadero?Vara-dear-oh-dear-oh-dear!:gob:

Almost as bad as the Yamaha Tedium - which was anything but.

oldrider
22nd January 2007, 21:59
There is write up on the Valadero in the latest Bike Rider Magazine. Although it was only tested on the seal it did get good comments. Most telling was how well it compared to a Yamaha FZ1S in the tight twistys.

It looks to be very similar to the VStrom, only its 35 Kg heavier and $4000 more expensive. It does have ABS which the Strom doesn't. Overall I believe I'd be happy to take it on any gravel roads, maybe not so good offroad.

Jantar, I think you will find the Honda being ridden with the Yamaha FZ1N and written about in "Bike Rider" magazine was an XL650v TransAlp, not a Varadero!

Varadero come in two sizes, 125cc and 1000cc, I think Honda are only importing the litre model.

I read the KiwiRider report by Ross MacKay and while it is quite a fair report, it is still a sport bike enthusiasts opinion, not that of a venture bike rider, for whom the bike is targeted. Picture 2 on page 28 says it all really.

He only road it briefly on a gravel road! Venture bike review???

At least he was honest and mentioned that it is not the same bike as the new import model, it is an older bike and that is immediately obvious from the magazine cover picture!

My first response was that they were dumping old models on New Zealand customers but I was wrong, nice one Ross Mackay, clearly stated, different bike!

Cheers John.

Edbear
23rd January 2007, 05:33
Vara-dear-oh-dear-oh-dear!:gob:

Almost as bad as the Yamaha Tedium - which was anything but.



Quite right! The TDM was a very good machine, much loved by the Ambos in Aus, I might add! But like most manufacturers, Yamaha heard the call for more excitement and sportiness so developed it into the current 900. Still a good bike but lost something along with the gains.

Just picked up both BRM and Kiwi Rider yesterday and it is the Varadero in BRM. A good report, but missing a go on gravel, only sealed roads. Stacked up well with the FZ1, too! Will read KR today!

What?
23rd January 2007, 05:49
The only remaining question seems to be, am I getting too old and weak for such a big heavy bike?

You'll have to try it - I thought it was a heavy slug until it was in gear and the clutch engaged, then it was all good.

oldrider
23rd January 2007, 08:33
Quite right! The TDM was a very good machine, much loved by the Ambos in Aus, I might add! But like most manufacturers, Yamaha heard the call for more excitement and sportiness so developed it into the current 900. Still a good bike but lost something along with the gains.

Just picked up both BRM and Kiwi Rider yesterday and it is the Varadero in BRM. A good report, but missing a go on gravel, only sealed roads. Stacked up well with the FZ1, too! Will read KR today!

It must be the February issue of BRM, which of course I haven't seen anywhere yet, my one is December/January!
We seem to be about a "month" behind all you city dwellers, Alexandra must be right up there with them Janta! :niceone: Well done that Southern town.

The V-Strom 1000 is still arguably the best value for money bike I have seen around lately, very tempting! (IMO) Cheers John.

Oscar
23rd January 2007, 08:40
Quite right! The TDM was a very good machine, much loved by the Ambos in Aus, I might add! But like most manufacturers, Yamaha heard the call for more excitement and sportiness so developed it into the current 900. Still a good bike but lost something along with the gains.

Just picked up both BRM and Kiwi Rider yesterday and it is the Varadero in BRM. A good report, but missing a go on gravel, only sealed roads. Stacked up well with the FZ1, too! Will read KR today!

That right there is why I don't buy BRM.
The only one I ever bought had them comparing a ZZ1000 Kawasaki to a BMW GS1150. Now we have them testing a Varedeo and NOT riding it on gravel! What a bunch of maroons...

Jantar
23rd January 2007, 08:46
Jantar, I think you will find the Honda being ridden with the Yamaha FZ1N and written about in "Bike Rider" magazine was an XL650v TransAlp, not a Varadero!

Varadero come in two sizes, 125cc and 1000cc, I think Honda are only importing the litre model.

I read the KiwiRider report by Ross MacKay and while it is quite a fair report, it is still a sport bike enthusiasts opinion, not that of a venture bike rider, for whom the bike is targeted. Picture 2 on page 28 says it all really.

He only road it briefly on a gravel road! Venture bike review???

At least he was honest and mentioned that it is not the same bike as the new import model, it is an older bike and that is immediately obvious from the magazine cover picture!

My first response was that they were dumping old models on New Zealand customers but I was wrong, nice one Ross Mackay, clearly stated, different bike!

Cheers John.
Nope... I have the latest issue in front of me right now. And it is the Varadero, 1000 cc. This is issue number 35 (February/March) and I received it yesterday.

The TransAlp was in Issue 34 (December/January).

Jantar
23rd January 2007, 08:49
There's also a good report on the Chatto creek 1000 miler showing a couple of VStroms in the same issue. :innocent:

Edbear
23rd January 2007, 17:12
What a bunch of maroons...



Hmmm! Not really sure what colour they are, really...:innocent: (p/t)

Oscar
23rd January 2007, 17:19
Hmmm! Not really sure what colour they are, really...:innocent: (p/t)

You're right, I shouldn't make fun of their tinge.
They obviously know phucke all about Adventure Bikes, though...

oldrider
23rd January 2007, 20:25
You're right, I shouldn't make fun of their tinge.
They obviously know phucke all about Adventure Bikes, though...

My point exactly, it's like testing a wood-choppers' axe on kindling and then proclaiming it is an axe worthy or unworthy of competition axemanship!

They just don't get it do they!

MacKay rubbishes the TransAlp at every opportunity but he didn't really take it anywhere and it has never ever been marketed as a bloody "sports bike"!

In my experience and as an "owner", the TransAlp is a very good venture bike, fit for purpose and a bike you grow to respect more, each time you ride it.

One day we will be able to buy a bike magazine with a realistic review that actually covers what the bike was meant to do.

The Varadero is being promoted as a "venture" bike, he says it is no BMW or KTM off the road, how the hell does he know that if he didn't even take it there???

He may well be right but to me he just comes across as biased without actually testing them on equal terms!

That's what I think is wrong with bike mag reviews these days, they lack objectivity and possibly, even integrity!

There is some good information available from the members of the various forums on the Internet.

I got some informative replies from some of the actual owners of both Varadero and TransAlp bikes, including those that have changed from one to the other.

One thing that does come across consistently, including in MacKay's comments, that the varadero is one big mother of a bike to handle when out of the saddle!

Mrs O/R is more than a little apprehensive about that, it may be more than we are capable of picking up again, should we do the unthinkable, and.........................:shutup: No just can't bring myself to say it!!!....What you think about usually happens :nono:

Another consistent comment is, just how good they are to ride once you are in the saddle and under way, very comfortable over a long distance and very capable in the gravel etc but a bit of a handfull in mud!

It appears that they are a competent venture bike but compared to what, I have not been able to ascertain, I guess if I want to know that, I will have to buy one and find out for myself!

That, it appears, is the only way to find out anything about any bike really, bike mag reviews are just there to sell the mags and are only accurate when they say "nice" things about "your" bike! And "that" works for me too! :yes: Perhaps they have got the formula right afterall! :shit: Cheers John.

Ruralman
23rd January 2007, 20:42
Only one thing for it OR - you'll have to book a test drive and include some gravel roads and write a test up on here for us to read.
I would be really interested in a part by part analysis to see where the weight difference compared to the V Strom comes from.
realistically, unless fitted with decent knobblies on the front in particular, the Transalp is really not at home in the mud @ 196kg, but is great on gravel and dry surfaces (incidentally I went through the Millenium track between Beaumont and Millers Flat the other day - it took 12 minutes longer than my riding companion going round the main road including a few minutes reading the inscription on the lonely graves signs - highly recommend this diversion with some stunning river views). At 235kg the Varadero has no place on mud and I would imagine a similar shod V Strom would be the same.
If you are a rider wanting to do more extreme adventure rides than just gravel roads and dry tracks the probably the big KTM is the way to go.
The Varadero reads well and looks pretty good to me and if you were doing a lot of 2 up riding it would be worth a look over the Transalp. Just remember John though - those demerit points could start to rise rapidly now that your cop predictor mechanism has started to falter!!!
Is it fuel injected? - be interesting to compare fuel useage against the T/A as well.

oldrider
25th January 2007, 20:18
There's also a good report on the Chatto creek 1000 miler showing a couple of VStroms in the same issue. :innocent:

Have bought the mag and read the (very good btw) report Malcolm, hey did you notice the author has got a bike and name just like yours!
Funny old world isn't it.
I must write to that mysterious author and ask him what sort of mileage he got out of his V-Strom on that ride, wonder where he lives?
Another question I would like to ask him is, have the big VStroms' got a six speed box? Cheers John.

pritch
25th January 2007, 21:50
I share his concern about the linked braking, especially off the tarmac and the ABS should be able to be turned off or on too.


So have you actually tried the Honda linked braking? I've used it on a Blackbird and now the VFR, I like it.

For the benefit of those who don't know it goes something like this: (the manual lacks specificity :whistle: ) When you apply the front brake two of the three calipers on each front brake work as does one on the back.

If you apply the back brake two of the three calipers on the back brake work along with one on each of the front.

If you apply both brakes all nine calipers work.

The brakes are excellent and there is only barely perceptible front end dive.

I think most of the negative perceptions regarding linked braking may come from early versions which were not as slick as what's on offer now?

Ixion
25th January 2007, 21:53
Yes, that is fine on seal. But the concern was how it would be on gravel, which is a whole different story. I certainly would not want to ride on gravel or dirt without an independant back brake. And ABS ditto (I have experience of it). It is wonderful on seal, on gravel, you CAN lock up the rear but it is much too unpredictable.

Jantar
25th January 2007, 22:00
Have bought the mag and read the (very good btw) report Malcolm, hey did you notice the author has got a bike and name just like yours!
Funny old world isn't it.
I must write to that mysterious author and ask him what sort of mileage he got out of his V-Strom on that ride, wonder where he lives?
Another question I would like to ask him is, have the big VStroms' got a six speed box? Cheers John.
Yeah, I did notice the similarity. I'm sure that if you asked him he'd tell you that he got just over 15 km/l and that the VStrom does have 6 gears. :shutup:

As for where he lives? Well that could be a bit of a mystery as the editor has bet that the pic of Mt Cook was taken on the way home from the event, so it must be somewhere up north.

oldrider
25th January 2007, 22:25
So have you actually tried the Honda linked braking? I've used it on a Blackbird and now the VFR, I like it.

No pritch008, I do not think I have but may have without actually knowing it, in which case it will have worked OK.

I have ridden Blackbirds and really enjoyed them!! (sealed roads only)


Yes, that is fine on seal. But the concern was how it would be on gravel, which is a whole different story. I certainly would not want to ride on gravel or dirt without an independent back brake. And ABS ditto (I have experience of it). It is wonderful on seal, on gravel, you CAN lock up the rear but it is much too unpredictable.

Yes Ixion, I agree. Once into the gravel I like to have independent control and feel, over everything on my bike.

I do not claim to be a great rider but have managed to keep myself in one piece (apart from lots of skin) for quite a number of km and years without really knowing how or why.

Being on this forum has made me think a lot about how I ride a bike and how would I explain this or that if a young rider asked for my help.

Every time I ride my bike I hear them in my mind , asking their questions, I never realised that I did most of the things I do on my bike, I find it quite revealing.

I think the modern innovations on motorcycles and the quality of the bikes across the board are simply fantastic, it's just hard trying to keep up.

Young riders are lucky to have access to riding schools etc and learn from all the mistakes others have made before them, there is a lot less "ouch" that way.

I really do enjoy riding my little bike, I wish I had enough money to buy one of each! :yes: Cheers John.

Ixion
25th January 2007, 23:24
..
I do not claim to be a great rider but have managed to keep myself in one piece (apart from lots of skin) for quite a number of km and years without really knowing how or why.

Being on this forum has made me think a lot about how I ride a bike and how would I explain this or that if a young rider asked for my help.

Every time I ride my bike I hear them in my mind , asking their questions, I never realised that I did most of the things I do on my bike, I find it quite revealing.

I think the modern innovations on motorcycles and the quality of the bikes across the board are simply fantastic, it's just hard trying to keep up.

Young riders are lucky to have access to riding schools etc and learn from all the mistakes others have made before them, there is a lot less "ouch" that way.



Yes , it is an odd thing is it not. I find myself nowdays rather in the position of the man who discovered that he knew how to speak in prose.

When I started riding no-one knew any of the theory, and the universal way to learn was to get on the bike : fall off : get on again, rinse lather, repeat until you stopped falling off .

This was best done on a local patch of dirt - the road back then was dangerous indeed. Infested with snakes. One could be buzzing happily along and - woof - out of nowhere the local snake would materialise. Which always meant another roadside lecture. The bastard once sat on his Triumph at the side of the road for half an hour and made me go through the same corner over and over, at least a dozen times until I was doing it to his satisfaction. (I owe that man my life, though like every young idiot I never realised it at the time)

But even he knew nothing of the theory of cornering on a bike. Cars, I knew about them . I knew castor and Ackerman angles and the difference between wishbones and McPherson struts and much else long forgotten.

But bikes, bikes you just rode along. When a corner came up, you thought ," Oh, corner, go round corner". And round you went. Often with much scraping and clattering and showers of sparks; sometimes to the accompniment of a wailing crescendo "Oh SHIT. Oh, holy FUCK" . But as to HOW this cornering was done, neither I nor anyone I knew ever knew or questioned. Or cared. It just happened. The bike knew how to do it.

If you had assembled every biker in Auckland in the early 60s and said "Countersteering" to them, I am sure they would have looked at each other, looked at you, concluded you were a gibbering nutter and stolen your bike.

And so I went on for 40 years. The occasional magazine article was digested with a vague "uh huh - okay, sure ", but as to cornering, the scraping and shrieking diminished, and I managed to avoid ever coming off on the road, but it was still just "something that happened".

Ditto things like braking. In the early days, we didn't have brakes (well you had to have a risible bit of metal in the rear hub for a WoF, but noone actually expected it to DO anything). Later we got wonderful 2LS drums, you just squeezed the lever, and if the cable didn't break, sometimes you slowed down. Slightly. Sometimes not.

Now, in the last few years, I am being brought to ask myself "Well, what AM I doing just now. And why. And is it what I SHOULD be doing". And dredge up the memories of those ancient magazine articles, and realise that I have indeed been countersteering for 40 years. Well, bugger me.

The person starting out on two wheels today has resources we never did. So much the better. And I , too, am learning, learning what I never knew I knew. I think that old snake would be pleased . You're never too old to learn.

pritch
26th January 2007, 08:41
When a corner came up, you thought <snip> "Oh SHIT. Oh, holy FUCK" .

You mean it's different now? :-)

Have bling for that writeup

oldrider
28th January 2007, 11:27
If you are interested, try this link! It seems to be accepted on a Varadero forum as being a fair description of the varadero as a bike.

Not quite what I wanted to read with regards to "off road" but what do they mean by "off road". (gravel, mud, farm trails?)

I would only want it for formed roads, scaled down from tarmac to piss poor gravel (farm) roads, piss poor but still a formed roads!

Example, link roads like, Hakataramea, Dansey, Blackforest passes etc and some farm bulldozed tracks.

We (Mrs O/R and me) used to traverse the above roads on our Honda ST1100's and while they didn't have any trouble doing it, there are more suitable bikes for that sort of riding, the transalp is one, could the varadero be another?

Anything less than that is, (IMO), for trail bikes, not big heavy venture bikes. Well for us anyway. Cheers John.

http://www.usedbikeguide.com/features/211_varadero.htm

98tls
28th January 2007, 17:12
Have asked a few questions on an overseas based forum regarding these things and replys were mostly very positive.........usual comparaisions to a v-strom............one comment that kept coming up was on the motor and how reliable they are........for the off road you want to do i am picking it would be just fine........same as a v-strom.............

scracha
28th January 2007, 17:20
Anybody on here ridden, owned, know anything, about Honda Varadero'?

Are they suitable for gravel roads etc?
Cheers John.
Comfy road bike. Far too heavy for gravel IMHO but I've not tried one off tarmac. Lots of grunt but thirsty on the gogo juice. DL1000, TDM900 or BMW GS far better alternatives.

oldrider
28th January 2007, 20:24
I have to admit that this bike has to be one of the best "bang for your bucks" bargains available at the moment.

This is a pic from another forum of "owners bikes" I think this is a smart looking unit and at such a good price new in NZ!

Take a look at Janta's fuel statistics from the Chatto Creek 1000miler, impressive enough, these bikes are definately a bargain! :yes: Cheers John.

98tls
28th January 2007, 20:27
And a good looker to boot.......................:yes:

Bytor
31st January 2007, 11:26
A major prob/oversight with the Honda is a lack of fuel guage:gob:
For what is essentially a touring bike this seems pretty stupid.

oldrider
31st January 2007, 15:30
A major prob/oversight with the Honda is a lack of fuel guage:gob:
For what is essentially a touring bike this seems pretty stupid.

That was my first impression too but when you have lived with the weird TransAlp fuel gauge for a while you learn to use the trip meter in unison to tell you roughly where it is at.

At least the Varadero has got the computer readout information at the right end of it's tank range!!!!

I think I would just use the trip meter and wait for the light to come on. :yes: John.

Ruralman
1st February 2007, 16:23
Hi John - I notice in that KiwiRider article that Ross McKay only managaed 12km/litre !!! Thats a seriously thirsty beast. Jantar did 15km/litre but remember some of the speeds involved so I think thats pretty good. The 650 V Stroms apparently easily do 20km/litre and I usually get 18-20 on my Transalp.
You say the Varadero is good buying?? - what price is it?

oldrider
1st February 2007, 23:04
Hi John - I notice in that KiwiRider article that Ross McKay only managaed 12km/litre !!! Thats a seriously thirsty beast. Jantar did 15km/litre but remember some of the speeds involved so I think thats pretty good. The 650 V Stroms apparently easily do 20km/litre and I usually get 18-20 on my Transalp.
You say the Varadero is good buying?? - what price is it?

Bruce, if you look closely you will see that the bike I said was good buying is a V-Strom 1000 not a varadero!

I am still very interested in the varadero and will take a good hard look at it when it comes into the dealers, hopefully this month. Cheers John.

zadok
2nd February 2007, 08:42
[QUOTE=oldrider; I will be concentrating on the Valaderos ability to provide, rider and passenger protection from the elements and comfort, as a long distance tourer, capable of handling whatever type of roads "I" decide to ride it on.[/QUOTE]

Protection from the elements! What! You love the elements John! Wetter the better......:motu:

25l tank, wow! Mind you, mine is 24l.

oldrider
2nd February 2007, 21:47
Protection from the elements! What! You love the elements John! Wetter the better......:motu:

Point noted and accepted Marty but I must have consideration for the welfare of her indoors, when on the back! :dodge:

I am always rabbiting on about Honda reliability, well last night a friend and I rode around the block, from Otematata, Te Akatarawa Stn - Blackforest stn road, Haldon, Hakataramea Pass Kurow back to Otematata for me and to Oamaru for him.

The other guy was on an F650GS Paris Dakar and the inevitable happened, the BMW broke down!!!! I immediately thought, oh, oh, bloody BMW again!

But!

A rock must have gotten into the chain and flicked it off (could have happened to any brand of bike actually) but the chain got its self doubled up, wrapped all around the primary sprocket and jammed into any available space it could find.

This was at about 8:30pm and light was starting to fade so we had to get busy and fix it quick. It was "not" a good look believe me.

To the Beemers credit, the tool box was adequate and with the aid of suitable sized rocks, sticks, bits of wire etc we managed to get the chain back out and onto the bike again, adjusted and back on the road just as it was getting real dark.

I was impressed with the BMW's roadside fixability and rather than condemn the brand on this occasion I thought the incident left me feeling a whole lot better about the value of the bike than I had prior to this incident, in short, the bike impressed me.

It had good roadside fixability, the tool kit was up to the task, the bike performed well in the conditions, is quite fast on the gravel and the fuel economy was very good.

I now have a different opinion about the value of BMW, even though it broke down it came out on top when one takes into account the nature of the break down, the alternative to fixing it was going to take us a lot longer than the delay we did experience.

I have just been talking to the other rider and we both think we had a fantastic ride and really enjoyed our selves. We are going to do it all again, soon! :yes:

There are no real dud bikes these days (IMHO) Just a lot of good bikes to choose from. Cheers John.

Highlander
11th February 2007, 21:02
Yeah, I did notice the similarity. I'm sure that if you asked him he'd tell you that he got just over 15 km/l and that the VStrom does have 6 gears. :shutup:

As for where he lives? Well that could be a bit of a mystery as the editor has bet that the pic of Mt Cook was taken on the way home from the event, so it must be somewhere up north.


I once new a Gent with the same name as that mystery writer. Heard somewhere that he is riding a Vstrom these days and lives "somewhere near Alex". He was a bit glutton for punishment, I wouldn't put it past him to take the long way home after a mere 1600 Km day ride. Chatto Creek to Alex via Pukaki - not out of the question.

Jantar
16th February 2007, 19:16
I once new a Gent with the same name as that mystery writer. Heard somewhere that he is riding a Vstrom these days and lives "somewhere near Alex". He was a bit glutton for punishment, I wouldn't put it past him to take the long way home after a mere 1600 Km day ride. Chatto Creek to Alex via Pukaki - not out of the question.

Well, I believe that today he did a short ride from Naseby to Alex via Tarras. :shutup:

oldrider
17th February 2007, 20:20
Well, I believe that today he did a short ride from Naseby to Alex via Tarras. :shutup:

Actually I saw him today heading for Clydevale, I think he is lost and can't find his way home again after the Passes ride was completed on thursday.

On that deep red bike he is sort of the local Scarlet pimpernel, you see him here, you see him there, that V-Strom man is everywhere!:ride: :yeah: Cheers John. :innocent:

Petsar68
12th March 2007, 14:26
Guys,

I just enquired with my Honda dealer in Alexandra and he told me that the Varadero wont be coming with ABS??????

Anyone able to confirm this please?

oldrider
12th March 2007, 21:30
Guys,

I just enquired with my Honda dealer in Alexandra and he told me that the Varadero wont be coming with ABS??????

Anyone able to confirm this please?

Yep, I was told that as well. It pissed me off a bit so I bought a Triumph, it hasn't got ABS either but at least "I" made that decision, not Blue Wing bloody Honda!

They also told me that the Varadero wont be here for months yet, at least I am riding my new Triumph not waiting, waiting, waiting, for Honda. :angry: Cheers John.

Petsar68
13th March 2007, 11:37
What model of Triumph did you go for?

I was looking at the new Tiger until i found out its not really designed to go off road!

NordieBoy
13th March 2007, 15:07
What model of Triumph did you go for?

I was looking at the new Tiger until i found out its not really designed to go off road!

Have a look top right on his post :D

Petsar68
13th March 2007, 21:45
[QUOTE=NordieBoy;973059]Have a look top right on his post :D[/QUO

Stupid me.......................:bye:

Catweazle
14th March 2007, 12:26
Hi - I bought a Varadero in 2000 in Oz and it is on the boat to Tauranga right now. Did about 50000 kms in 2000/2003 after which it has been stored following my return to NZ early 2004. I picked it up a fortnight ago and its arrives on Monday.

Some impressions:

It is a big bike, it is also tall - slightly too tall for my 5 foot 11 inches.

I did a lot of commuting with it in the Sydney CBD - not ideal.

Is very lumpy to ride at the speed limit but it is seriously nice at higher speed on winding roads.

Long travel suspension is great on rough surfaces.

Goes very well in the gravel, including at high speed if you know what you are doing.

I tow a trailer with it (its on the boat too) to keep all the weight off the bike. A great combination, ride the bike as fast as you like and the trailer just follows you.

Has a big wide seat but I find a sheepskin is also needed for all day riding.

Has dual combined brakes - front lever is 2/3 front and 1/3 rear. Rear pedal is 2/3 rear and 1/3 front.

Hard to pick up it it falls over with 25 litres of fuel on board. Done it twice (left and right) and still not smashed the fairings.

With screen, tank indents, hand guards and warm clothes you can ride in sub-zero temperatures in comfort. (Drove into Orange, NSW at 9:00PM one night when it was minus 2 degrees.)

I upgraded the dual 45W headlights to dual 65W - you can see everything.

No centre stand is a hassle - I use a trolley jack when removing the the rear wheel.

I did the shims at 50,000 kms - only half of them needed minor adjustment.

Cheers.

oldrider
16th March 2007, 10:13
Thanks for the post Catweazle very informative.

The reason for this thread was to find out about the Varadero as Blue Wing Honda are about (could be years away the rate they are going) to start importing them soon and they are somewhat an unknown quantity in NZ.

I have meantime bought a Triumph Tiger and am very pleased with it.

It's the first non Honda in my shed since 1970, feels strange! :yes: Cheers John.

vifferman
16th March 2007, 11:35
Yes, that is fine on seal. But the concern was how it would be on gravel, which is a whole different story. I certainly would not want to ride on gravel or dirt without an independant back brake. And ABS ditto (I have experience of it). It is wonderful on seal, on gravel, you CAN lock up the rear but it is much too unpredictable.
Well (whelp) last Easter I did about 60km or so on gravel, and the linked brakes worked fine. The advantage is that you can stomp fairly hard on the brake pedal, and it offers more retardation than if just the back brake was working and doesn't lock up as readily, because there's little weight transfer.

I know what you guys mean, but I've found now that I've used linked braking for a while (nearly two and a half years), I prefer it.
Except for the extra weight and complexity, especially with bleeding the brakes...

Jantar
1st December 2007, 07:17
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but Dave Britten is riding the latest Varadero in this year's Chatto Creek 1000. He is usually one of the quickest riders in this event, so it will be interesting to see how he goes on an adventure bike.

Daffyd
1st December 2007, 21:56
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but Dave Britten is riding the latest Varadero in this year's Chatto Creek 1000. He is usually one of the quickest riders in this event, so it will be interesting to see how he goes on an adventure bike.

What colour is it? I may have seen it passing.

Jantar
2nd December 2007, 18:05
What colour is it? I may have seen it passing.
Typical Honda colours - Red, blue and White. It would have been one of the first bikes past you.

Daffyd
2nd December 2007, 18:42
Typical Honda colours - Red, blue and White. It would have been one of the first bikes past you.

No, I didn't see that one. Didn't wake up till afew had passed. Did see something either light silver/grey or white with matching panniers and topbox disappearing down the road. Didn't have time to see what it was but it sure as hell sounded sweet!

PeteJ
3rd December 2007, 11:55
I bought one in late May this year, and it is just what I expected: basically, a superb allroad all-weather tourer. It is most definitely a road bike. I've just clocked over 10,000km.

Gravel roads covered include most of the roads at the north of Coromandel, a lot of inland Northland, west coast Waikato as far as Awakino, and the Gentle Annie in the snow and ice of midwinter.

My dear spouse finds it the most comfortable pillion machine we have ever had, no small matter as she is 6ft tall. We have had over 90 machines over the years, and there are still 12 in the shed.

The Vara has a bigger tank and better range than the big Strom. The fuel light comes on at 340-360km, and I've never had to put in more than 19l. It has a 25l fuel tank.

Mechanicals were important to me, and as I also have a VTR 1000 I have confidence in the Vara's engine and trans. In asking around some of the shops, the Honda big twins are regarded as more reliable than the Suzuki equivalents - or anything European branded - judged by warranty claims here and in other countries.

Being made at the Montesa factory in Spain, the Vara these days is not rated as well-finished as a Japanese-made machine (which the first ones were). Nevertheless, not bad finish at all.

They are unbelievably popular in Europe, and so you can farkle them to death because the things have been around so long. Because it's now up to Mk III, and there are various changes all the time, you need to be very careful in ordering eg pannier racks to ensure you get the stuff that fits.

Riding: yep, good on gravel, which is about 40% of my riding on mine, but the Bridgestone standard tyres are deathwish stuff on damp roads, ice, or mud. However, the tyres right now still have plenty tread on them and have got better as they have worn.

Good and quick - and did I mention super comfortable? - on seal.

The machine is very heavy and large. The VTR looks tiny next to it. If I were not moderately tall and weighty myself - 6'2" and 195lb - I would probably go for the new TransAlp instead.

Though I take mine across some farm tracks when going fishing, that's obviously not what it's for. If you are looking for something to do mainly tight gravel roads and any offroad, buy a smaller bike without so much plastic on it.

Oh, and my Vara'll do 210km/hr on gravel by the GPS, so it ain't all bad.

FJRider
6th December 2007, 21:55
Dave Britten got home UNDER 24 hours. (well under) Buy Kiwi Rider and read the report when its published.Try to copy his achievements at your own risk. GOOD LUCK. (Life insurance RECOMENDED)

PLUG
7th December 2007, 08:49
Dave Britten got home UNDER 24 hours. (well under)

... how much under ??? ... in 2005 (my one & only crack at it) the first bikes were home in 13hrs 45min & he was a couple of mins behind them ... i made it in 17hrs & 25min ...

FJRider
7th December 2007, 19:46
He took an extra hour and thirty five mins this year.

oldrider
10th December 2007, 14:34
He took an extra hour and thirty five mins this year.

So it "is" a race then! :Pokey: John.

FJRider
10th December 2007, 17:15
So it "is" a race then! :Pokey: John.

no... just a personal "challenge" to be 1st home.I think its his 1st, to be 1st. Never (before) the bride,but always the bridesmaid. Weather played a BIG part in his "slower" time this year. NOT bike performance / capability.