Germans should build bikes! [Archive]

degrom

23rd January 2007, 09:26

Just checked the latest VW Golf. The one with the TSI technology...

TSI uses a supercharger for low revs and a turbocharger for high revs. VW says that despite the 1.4-litre capacity the combination of supercharger and turbocharger enables the TSI engine to produce 125kW (170bhp) of power at about 6500rpm, and 240Nm of torque between 1500 and 4750rpm, a similar output to the V5.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10419932&ref=rss

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 10:01

... shall we also speak of Motorrad und Zweiradwerk (http://www.muz.de/)?

Coyote

23rd January 2007, 10:04

No, they shouldn't

imdying

23rd January 2007, 10:24

Yay, another ghey car! Wait till they make an electric car with all the torque all the time. Better sitll, wait till they make an electric GSXR with all the torque all the time :yes:

limbimtimwim

23rd January 2007, 10:32

Flat power curves are boring.

Finn

23rd January 2007, 10:39

Flat power curves are boring.

Not on a woman they're not.

ManDownUnder

23rd January 2007, 10:41

Not on a woman they're not.

Depends how you ride them...

ArcherWC

23rd January 2007, 10:50

Depends how you ride them...

Whisper their mothers name and hang on :dodge:

stanko

23rd January 2007, 10:51

Flat power curves are boring.

tell that to the crew of the space shuttle.

degrom

23rd January 2007, 10:57

Do you think BMW bikes come from Korea?

BMW don't impress me...

I am talking of bikes like a GSXR or a Ducati...

What German bikes can compare to them?

Indiana_Jones

23rd January 2007, 11:09

BMW are in a class of their own. I Like those funky horizontal cylinders :D

-Indy

Ixion

23rd January 2007, 11:16

Japanese should build bikes!!

Suzuki don't impress me.

I am talking of bikes like a R1200GS

What Japanese bikes can compare to them?

Hitcher

23rd January 2007, 11:48

Japanese should build bikes!!

Suzuki don't impress me.

I am talking of bikes like a R1200GS

What Japanese bikes can compare to them?

The Honda Africa Twin?
The Honda Varadero?
The Suzuki DL1000 VStrom?

Ixion

23rd January 2007, 11:51

All are V twins. Not boxers.

And don't have shaft drive. Or ABS (except the Varadero).

Or badges with roundels.

avgas

23rd January 2007, 11:57

Most of the decent german fighters are around the 200hp mark so what are you talking about

Finn

23rd January 2007, 11:57

I am talking of bikes like a GSXR or a Ducati...

What German bikes can compare to them?

You're right. No German bike will ever compete with those two. Germans build reliable, quality bikes.

You're comparing the Model T and Fiat of bikes to BMW. :nono:

bugjuice

23rd January 2007, 12:01

fuk emissions.. stick that technology on a 5ltr v8!!!!!!! :yeah:

Finn

23rd January 2007, 12:04

fuk emissions.. stick that technology on a 5ltr v8!!!!!!! :yeah:

5 litres. Pftttt. You can buy a 5 litre tub of ice cream these days. A real V8 is anything above 6 litres. Holdens and Fords don't count.

cooneyr

23rd January 2007, 12:25

Industry analysts say TSI is groundbreaking technology. Mercedes-Benz is talking to VW about TSI and BMW is looking at similar technology.

Ground breaking technology - phhhh whatever. The Lancia Delta S4 had the turbo and super charger and they sorted the problems then. The 1.8-litre homologation car had 250 hp and 214 lbft of torque, while the rally car had at least 470 hp and 333 lbft. Apparently the crash of this car was what started the demise of the Group B cars. 1.8l car weight 1200kgs

All of this stolen from here http://www.autozine.org/strange_car/strange_60.htm#Delta-S4

Bugger the heavy V8 - I'll have one of these or the Pug 205 T16. :innocent:

Cheers
R

cooneyr

23rd January 2007, 12:28

doh - post count hungry (not)

bugjuice

23rd January 2007, 12:28

5 litres. Pftttt. You can buy a 5 litre tub of ice cream these days. A real V8 is anything above 6 litres. Holdens and Fords don't count.
fukya then, 8ltr V10 from the Mercs

Finn

23rd January 2007, 12:31

fukya then, 8ltr V10 from the Mercs

Don't need an 8L V10 to take the kids to school. I'm talking push rod, bone crunching, gas gusling V8's mate.

WRT

23rd January 2007, 12:34

Don't need an 8L V10 to take the kids to school. I'm talking push rod, bone crunching, gas gusling V8's mate.

You're still talking about model T's, aren't you?

Finn

23rd January 2007, 12:37

You're still talking about model T's, aren't you?

Actually, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never lifted the bonnet of my car.

nudemetalz

23rd January 2007, 13:16

Having a turbo and a blower on a small capacity bike would make it overly complex.
Also, excessive heat would be an issue to contend with as well as astronomical servicing costs.

Coyote

23rd January 2007, 14:36

Christian Pfeiffer could get me to like anything. I wouldn't mind the new F800

limbimtimwim

23rd January 2007, 22:14

Also, excessive heat would be an issue to contend with as well as astronomical servicing costs. I was thinking about the servicing costs. They could be crazy. And debugging the thing if it is acting up. Eeekkk. It can't be a cheap engine to make.

Also, earlier I said 'Flat power curves'. A contridiction I am suprised no one picked up on.

grego

24th January 2007, 12:27

newzealanders should not build bikes.
I would not be able to afford one, and I haven't got one of those pliers for dealing with No 8 wire.:done:

Dazza

24th January 2007, 12:53

newzealanders should not build bikes.
I would not be able to afford one, and I haven't got one of those pliers for dealing with No 8 wire.:done:
Oh yes we should, wheres my bloody Britten :yes:

jrandom

24th January 2007, 13:17

Also, earlier I said 'Flat power curves'. A contridiction I am suprised no one picked up on.

Curves can have degrees of flatness. It's not a binary proposition.

crazybigal

24th January 2007, 14:03

phhh lancia delta, check out this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQigN057dMw
alfa 164 pro car v10

Ground breaking technology - phhhh whatever. The Lancia Delta S4 had the turbo and super charger and they sorted the problems then. The 1.8-litre homologation car had 250 hp and 214 lbft of torque, while the rally car had at least 470 hp and 333 lbft. Apparently the crash of this car was what started the demise of the Group B cars. 1.8l car weight 1200kgs

All of this stolen from here http://www.autozine.org/strange_car/strange_60.htm#Delta-S4

Bugger the heavy V8 - I'll have one of these or the Pug 205 T16. :innocent:

Cheers
R

JayRacer37

24th January 2007, 18:51

degrom

24th January 2007, 19:00

WOW! Ten HP less than a GSXR-1000, with 400cc more, and a turbo AND a supercharger!! Now...I wonder what it weigh's?? and how big it is........maybe they should stick with cars....

That specs are great!!! if you take a carbed 1.4 Golf Mark 1... Output is about 50KW with almost 100NM... And the new model is about 200kg more!!! (Worst is it's not even a sport's car!!!)

avgas

24th January 2007, 19:02

Curves can have degrees of flatness. It's not a binary proposition.

Everything is flat when you look close enough

JayRacer37

24th January 2007, 19:17

That specs are great!!! if you take a carbed 1.4 Golf Mark 1... Output is about 50KW with almost 100NM... And the new model is about 200kg more!!! (Worst is it's not even a sport's car!!!)

Co:done: mpare apple's to apple's. Look at the jump in technology. Your talking a golf mark 1, I don't really know car's but, what, late 70's model?? Now look at a late 70's japanese 1000 bike, one which would have been the premier bike in its day. It would have made around 80HP?? Maybe. So you have more than doubled output in that time for bikes. Around about the same as the diffrence between the cars. My point was/is, that with 400cc capacity more, a turbo and a supercharger, they only managed to make horsepower comparable to our top bikes? Yes, they are sports bikes, but imagine what Suzuki, or Yamaha, or Kawasaki or Honda could do with 1.4L, a turbo and a supercharger?? Bring on 400HP+, in a sports application, i'd think. and it would be half the size of VW unit. The torque would be monstrous, and it would be easy to ride because they would be able to engineer a very LINEAR (not flat) power and torque curve with the excess they would have...then imagine that motor in a streetfighter GSXR-1000 style frame...what the B-King SHOULD be! And yes, I do have a thing for big, fast wheelies!! :Punk:

Titanium

24th January 2007, 19:28

BMW don't impress me...

I am talking of bikes like a GSXR or a Ducati...

What German bikes can compare to them?

K1200S ....... K1200R ......

degrom

24th January 2007, 19:32

True.... I am still impressed!!!

But man you are spot on with the bikes,I am just wondering how a 400hp Busa feels... Must be lots of fun!!!

degrom

24th January 2007, 19:33

K1200S ....... K1200R ......

Why do I get the idea I am going to regret what I said... :second:

Lou Girardin

24th January 2007, 19:54

According to the great Jezza Clarkson, the Golf has a uneven, unpredictable throttle response. An altogether poor replacement for the 2 litre turbo engine.
Technology is not always the answer. Give it 5 years and it might work.
God forbid they use this shit on bikes.

cooneyr

24th January 2007, 20:00

phhh lancia delta, check out this!
alfa 164 pro car v10

Thats not the point. The technology i.e. twin chargers, is not ground breaking as stated in the article. It has been in road going cars before (although it was a homologation car).

Cheers R

nudemetalz

24th January 2007, 20:27

crazybigal

24th January 2007, 20:41

yes mighty s2000, not allot of normally aspirated cars can put out that sort of power per letre
my alfa is 3l and makes 190-200hp

The other car engine which is quite impressive is the S2000.
Normally aspirated 2.0 litre which pumps out 240ish HP with a 9000rpm redline.
You half the cylinders and output, you have a 1000cc twin with 120hp (VTR1000 ballpark).
No need for a turbo there.

(They're great fun to drive BTW !!)

JayRacer37

24th January 2007, 21:10

The other car engine which is quite impressive is the S2000.
Normally aspirated 2.0 litre which pumps out 240ish HP with a 9000rpm redline.
You half the cylinders and output, you have a 1000cc twin with 120hp (VTR1000 ballpark).
No need for a turbo there.

(They're great fun to drive BTW !!)

About similar red-line too a VTR too....hmm. A car that has the tuning level a bike recives..not sure if i'm happy about that or not! Bikes are performance, arn't they?? nah, that IS impressive spec's for a car.

CRM

21st May 2013, 17:31

Bringing back an old thread... I just bought a 2008 Golf 1.4 TSI 90kw with DSG (7 speed auto dual clutch set up like Yamaha FJR1300AE I assume) as a replacement for my V6 250GT Skyline. What a cool engine! I'd love to see this concept in touring bike - supercharger for low-end torque and turbo for top end with the perfect gear ratio on tap at all times - not so much for the power you can produce but to get decent gas mileage by super-efficient use of fuel that the combination gets. Sure you can get masses of power if you want to but I reckon in a touring bike you should be able to get decent performance with super economy.

The Golf gets 5.9 l/100km from its 1.4 with similar output to a 2.0 to 2.5 litre car. It actually feels way livelier to drive than my auto 2.5 skyline because of the fat torque and the direct gearing. That economy is only slightly higher than my ST1100 and quite a bit better than I used to get on my R1100R and my Trophy 1200. Applied to a bike you could get 1200cc performance from a 700cc bike with 700cc economy - like an NC700 Honda engine say with twin charger and DSG gearbox :cool:. Its the way of the future I reckon.

Banditbandit

22nd May 2013, 09:11

Japanese should build bikes!!

Suzuki don't impress me.

I am talking of bikes like a R1200GS

What Japanese bikes can compare to them?

I had a BMW R100GS PD ... loved it at the time ... and I'll never own another BMW ...

CRM

22nd May 2013, 20:49

There was a rumour at one stage that volkswagen were going to buy Ducati. Could have turned out a bit like this maybe....283119

What I have in mind is a TSI supercharger/turbo engine in a touring bike. Not like this...

283120

Maybe more like this...

283121

Tagger

22nd May 2013, 22:01

There was a rumour at one stage that volkswagen were going to buy Ducati.

Audi bought Ducati, and Audi is part of Volkswagen. So it already happened ... (and since both audi and vw are german, better get used to pronouncing it "Dzucathi" ;) )

240

22nd May 2013, 23:41

BMW don't impress me...

I am talking of bikes like a GSXR or a Ducati...

What German bikes can compare to them?

Hmmmmm I dunno oh maybe google a BMW ss1000rr that might, do it!

raziel1983

23rd May 2013, 20:36

Hmmmmm I dunno oh maybe google a BMW ss1000rr that might, do it!

I was about to say this, then realised the thread was made before the s1000rr was!

240

25th May 2013, 10:24

I was about to say this, then realised the thread was made before the s1000rr was!

woops yep, your right!! :facepalm:

Hacking

26th May 2013, 15:02

How about the konig ,
A great book for german manufacturers was mick walkers german racing motorcycle
And on another note the bmw s1000r production motor and other accessories are made in china at the bmw factory hence the low price off that model compared to the GS range.

BMWST?

26th May 2013, 15:07