Welding certificate...

[degrom]

What kind of welding certificate do you need to be able to weld your own frames?

[twinkle]

I thought it was a case of either having your welding certificate for that type of welder or not? Wouldn't you need to get an engineer to certify the frame afterward too?

[Sensei]

Asme-9 would be all I would think , then you would need to have it MPI'd or Dye-penned checked , for a good job on Bike frames I use a High Frequency machine .

[Colapop]

Weltec or maybe NZ Welding school could be the go for gaining certification.

[degrom]

Weltec or maybe NZ Welding school could be the go for gaining certification.
Yes Weltec is good(Good price to!!!). But I need to know what welding certificates level I need it I want to do this stuff.

Doesn't help I get a certificate and it doesn't qualify for frames

[geoffm]

Guessing NZS4711 certificate for the process and position. Try the local polytech - they often do night classes, but you will need a fair amount of experience to pass. .Never done it.
Other alternative is make the jig, cut, trim, miter all the bits and take it to a certified welder to glue together.
Geoff

[roadracingoldfart]

Can you clarify to us all if you just need to repair a frame or to build a complete homebuild frame that needs to be road registered ?????

If you just need to repair a frame you dont need to have any welding cert but a 4711 is a good place to start for peace of mind.

If you want to build a NEW frame you need to have all your welds xrayed and crack tested and once you have paid for all that shit you wont be able to afford an engine.
Cheers .

[tl_tub]

Do you know if this testing has to be done on every frame, or one in ten as a sample, or just once to proove your competent and then you are acceptable to produce them for x many years?

[Motu]

I can't see that a 4711 is relavent to motorcycle frames,that's a pretty heavy duty qualification for structrual welds.People who have 4711 are working in the industry and have to keep current,their welds are regualy checked.Motorcycle frames can be gas welded,brazed,MIGed,TIGed or arced....all are acceptable forms of sticking tubing together to make a motorcycle frame.So long as you are experianced and competant in whatever method you choose I don't think there would be a problem.I would and have trusted my own welding on my own frames,although I have never built one from scratch.A friend of mine works as a welder making trailer components,he has no 4711.

[roadracingoldfart]

There is a sad notion here in NZ that we have to be qualified at anything to do anything at all. Well did you know you DONT have to be certified in either welding or engineering to make a towbar for a car but you do for a truck.
There is no actual NZ standard for this product except for the so called industry standard developed by the manufacturers on the likes of some OE bars made by a NZ company with a pretty logo stuck on it. The whole industry needs to be cleaned up and sorted back to a level playing field to make it safer for everybody.
You can make your own trailer at home and as long as the welds LOOK ok and there are no sharp brackets hanging of the side of the thing and all the correct lights are where they are ment to be then .... Here is your WOF sir and be happy killing people. !!!!! Now go to LTNZ for your rego or just pop into NZ post if you like.
There is no part of the proccess that actually tests the structure or the welds and then as we here in NZ do all the time we take a domestic trailer with a set of 500 kg springs and load at least a tonne of builders mix on it so we only have to make one trip aye.
By the way a 4711 test is a peice of wees to get but a man somewhere in a suit says we have to have it to do anything that hangs a few metres in the air and may fall on a child or a innocent victim, BUT we can drive past the same place with a trailer overloaded with an untested structure and thats OK ???? Only in NZ aye .

[degrom]

Can you clarify to us all if you just need to repair a frame or to build a complete homebuild frame that needs to be road registered ?????

If you just need to repair a frame you dont need to have any welding cert but a 4711 is a good place to start for peace of mind.

If you want to build a NEW frame you need to have all your welds xrayed and crack tested and once you have paid for all that shit you wont be able to afford an engine.
Cheers .

I am after a complete homebuilt frame... I am working on getting a proper tube bender for the job and when it arrives in NZ I would like to go for a proper welding course to get me on my way.

Sure there would be some obstacles in my way but hell nothing ever came easy to any one!!

[Motu]

You can also still have a wooden trailer....no problem.The problem with trailers usually doesn't stem from the owner,but from the son in law who borrows it,and then takes it fully laden to Tauranga.Fit for purpose.....the fit part is easy to assess.....the purpose part is hard to control.

[Kflasher]

Guessing NZS4711 certificate for the process and position. Try the local polytech - they often do night classes, but you will need a fair amount of experience to pass. .Never done it.
Other alternative is make the jig, cut, trim, miter all the bits and take it to a certified welder to glue together.
Geoff

This would be your best option if never welded before as an good TIG welder will make a very nice job of the welds all consistant and like. You could join a hobby night school to do all your cutting, routing, bending and jiging... I was an production welder years ago and a good jig (adjustable as well) would be good. All so sort out what materials you wish to use and sort out a firm that can handle your task.

[The Pastor]

I did a intro to mig & tig cource at unitec. I had no experiance with welding at all and I found it pretty awesome. Unitec offer cources right from the intro one (for newbies) right up to your certs. The gear they have is awesome and having them at night makes it good for work as well.

[Guitana]

Hi Degrom
I'm a fully qualified Welder/Fabricator as far as i know there are no qualifications required to weld a bike frame it just has to be passed through inspection by a qualified inspector if you want to register it for road use.
I beleive there are a few hoops to jump through if you go down that road.
As for welding this is a skill that will take some time for you to perfect if you are to weld light walled framing tube.
The Tig welding process is probably the best for looks and strength and takes some practice to master fully.
Mig welding is probably easier to master and the machine is cheaper to buy.
As for the framing you will need to ensure the fit up on all joins is accurate and you have no gaps as the frame will twist and distort.
If you are looking to build a few frames a jig would be the ticket to ensure dimensional accuracy and to stop movement during welding.
If you have any questions or would like advice on welding machines send us a PM I'm local and can hook you up with local trade suppliers for tube, machines and tooling etc.
Happy welding!!!!!!

[clint640]

If you are going to scratch build or modify any vehicle, get the certifier involved when it is but a twinkle in yer eye. He'll be able to tell ya the lowdown on all the requirements.

There are some tighter rules on steering components, but in general to weld on a frame or chassis & get a cert you either have to hold a ticket - As noted 4711 is not quite relevant but it'll keep 'em happy and ain't too hard to get, OR you can be deemed an approved person by the certifier after they have seen some of your work.

cheers
Clint

[Motu]

With welding,experiance is the key - which is really what 4711 does....you couldn't come out of a classroom and pass 4711.Welding is kind of an artform,you develope feel,you ''know'' when you have done a good weld,when to push here or go easy there....you don't learn that stuff in a classroon enviroment.Once you have filled a skip bin with your welding of various types in different materials and thicknesses etc you'll be a ''pretty good'' welder.Then you can make your frame.