Cop charged with dangerous driving while responding to an urgent job [Archive]

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:11

pervert

24th January 2007, 08:16

115km in a 50km zone right outside a school to be exact.

N4CR

24th January 2007, 08:17

just read on the text news that a cop is being charged for doing 105 in a 50 while responding to a bus crash with injured kids on board. it was a priority 1 job, which means urgent. anyone know more of this?????

does this mean i should go 50kmph the next time someone is being bashed/raped/burgled whatever...????? wtf?????????

i've seen cops going lanesplitting through glen innes to respond to incidents a few times, outside the dairy/school on the road that goes past the slums. they are doing a decent 30k faster than the traffic while school kids are walking around and they are really erratic out there probably all the sugar from the dairy.

no amount of specialist training can stop a 1.4 tonne car in 10m from 70-80kmh when a kid runs out infront. i've seen kids do it a few times now. i've also seen them almost take out a pole overcorrecting when they pulled a real big uey once. a fair amount of the cops i see can drive sensibly in urgent situations but a few do some really really stupid stuff which puts public in alot of danger and makes the police look worse and worse every time.

so to sum it all up if you have sirens you're allowed to drive like a completely regardless t0sser sometimes. cool eh? probably the guys behind the wheel trying to show off or something.

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:22

Just read on the text news that a cop is being charged for doing 115 in a 50 while responding to a bus crash with injured kids on board. 10 were taken to hospital. It was a priority 1 job, which means urgent. Anyone know more of this?????

Does this mean I should go 50kmph the next time someone is being bashed/raped/burgled whatever...????? WTF?????????

It was in Invercargill on a really wide dual lane road, cop had passing the hazardous area and booting it towards the crash, camera man saw him coming, blue&reds going, siren on etc but "didn't have time to turn the camera to stand-by" (WTF?) and it took a picture of the patrol car.

Sgt driving it is chaged with dangerous driving.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:22

[QUOTE=N4CR;908960] they are really erratic out there probably all the sugar from the dairy.

Damn donuts....
but a few do some really really stupid stuff

but it said he is a Sergeant... someone with experience...
so to sum it all up if you have sirens you're allowed to drive like a completely regardless t0sser sometimes.

Ummm... no...... he has experience, not a newbie...

QUOTE]

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:24

i've seen cops going lanesplitting through glen innes to respond to incidents a few times, outside the dairy/school on the road that goes past the slums. they are doing a decent 30k faster than the traffic while school kids are walking around and they are really erratic out there probably all the sugar from the dairy.

no amount of specialist training can stop a 1.4 tonne car in 10m from 70-80kmh when a kid runs out infront. i've seen kids do it a few times now. i've also seen them almost take out a pole overcorrecting when they pulled a real big uey once. a fair amount of the cops i see can drive sensibly in urgent situations but a few do some really really stupid stuff which puts public in alot of danger and makes the police look worse and worse every time.

so to sum it all up if you have sirens you're allowed to drive like a completely regardless t0sser sometimes. cool eh? probably the guys behind the wheel trying to show off or something.

Nice troll - but you won't get a bite from me seeing as you know all the facts.

Ixion

24th January 2007, 08:24

I believe he did not have his lights and siren on. Does that make a difference?

This is like the case a year or so back when an ambo got charged. It seems harsh, and counter productive , to nitpick such decisions. Emergency services are exactly that - dealing with emergencies. And the quicker they get there the better IMHO. But the word "kids" has nowdays become a nice emotional bludgeon to clobber anything Mrs Grundy disapproves of.

EDIT: I see that while I was writing that Mr Scumdog has posted and says the lights and siren were on. So what's with that then, I thought that cops were allowed to exceed the speed limit if they had their light n sound going.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:26

It was in Invercargill on a really wide dual lane road, cop had passing the hazardous area and booting it towards the crash, camera man saw him coming, blue&reds going, siren on etc but "didn't have time to turn the camera to stand-by" (WTF?) and it took a picture of the patrol car.

Sgt driving it is chaged with dangerous driving.

What a fit up. Too slow to push a button once???

jimbo600

24th January 2007, 08:28

115km in a 50km zone right outside a school to be exact.

Actually I think he slowed down outside the school. I understand that he even stopped by the crossing there to let kids cross.

I think its BS when cops have to fight prosecution for doing their jobs. What the hell was he supposed to do? Cruise at 50kmh with the strobes going while responding to an emergency. In fact PIB should have shoved that infringement photo straight in the bin.

davereid

24th January 2007, 08:30

Actually, for car accidents, or even bus accidents, both FIRE and AMBO are restricted in how fast they can go to get there. I think thoses services can only respond to calls at a max of 40 km/hr above the speed limit.

I don't really see that its necessary for Police to get there faster than the Ambo staff.

The law really needs tweaking a bit, pretty clearly there are times when emergency services need to break the speed limit to get to a job.

But 65 km/hr above the speed limit outside a school IS too fast IMHO.

Police chases are another case in point. From an enforcement point of view its a no brainer - police have to catch the speeding - stolen car.

But every year innocent people lose their lives when a Police chase ends in tragedy.

To lose my wife or family to an unnecessary police chase would gut me - no stolen car is worth a life, not even the thiefs !

:rockon:

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 08:30

Charged with Dangerous....rightly so. Not above the law, is he? Extenuating circumstances?? Needed to be somewhere in a hurry?? Let Joe Public use that 'excuse' and see how far it gets him.

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:34

I don't really see that its necessary for Police to get there faster than the Ambo staff.

The law really needs tweaking a bit, pretty clearly there are times when emergency services need to break the speed limit to get to a job.

:rockon:

Hmm, most times the cops are the last to be told, last to get there, Ambo and fire tend to be first.

N4CR

24th January 2007, 08:34

[quote=n4cr;908960] they are really erratic out there probably all the sugar from the dairy.

damn donuts....
but a few do some really really stupid stuff

but it said he is a sergeant... someone with experience...
so to sum it all up if you have sirens you're allowed to drive like a completely regardless t0sser sometimes.

ummm... no...... he has experience, not a newbie...

quote]

it don't matter if you are a newb or not if a kid runs out infront and you have 10m to stop you are going to make road pizza. most of the cops drive with caution but of course fast (responding to incidents) through there, but a few seem to do stuff that is completely *****ic. i'm referring to glen innes btw. one incident was the cop that got stabbed in mt wellington, i saw some of the response units going to the incident. for some reason they went down the buisiest road even though the incident could be reached faster and safer on a nother road (comms fault??). most of them drove fast but didn't take any stupid risks. one unit drove very dangerously and put alot of people at risk.
one of my mates in the po-po at gi station knew the young stabbed cop well. i ain't mentioned the stupid driving by some officers i see yet but i'll mention it next time.

nice troll - but you won't get a bite from me seeing as you know all the facts.

not directly referring to the news artical just my own experiences.

Beemer

24th January 2007, 08:36

Did anyone actually see the item on the news last night? They had the reporter standing where the cop got the ticket, and said he had slowed down at the crossing to let children cross, and had been snapped doing 115kph at 'this point' - which was about 10m from the crossing! Shit, if police cars can accellerate to 115kph from a dead stop in that distance, I wouldn't try outrunning them!

Having said that, 115kph at 8.43am outside a school is perhaps not advisable, although as none of us was there at the time, who knows what really happened?

pervert

24th January 2007, 08:36

last to get there

Pretty standard for the Police in all emergency situations...no?

Unless of course someone's doing 106km in a 100km area...:laugh:

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 08:36

Does this mean I should go 50kmph the next time someone is being bashed/raped/burgled whatever...????? WTF?????????

Yes please, any response to these thing would be preferable to the current situation.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 08:37

But every year innocent people lose their lives when a Police chase ends in tragedy.

To lose my wife or family to an unnecessary police chase would gut me...

You make it sound like the cops are gunning down runners with automatic weapons.

If you lost your wife or family to a police chase, it'd be because they drove like twats and crashed their vehicle in an attempt to run from the law, not because the police happened to be trying to stop them.

I've been involved in 'unnecessary' (ahem) police 'chases' several times, but strangely enough, I haven't died. Could have been because I pulled over when I saw the disco lights instead of going mental and wrapping myself around a tree.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:37

Charged with Dangerous....rightly so. Not above the law, is he? Extenuating circumstances?? Let Joe Public use that 'excuse' and see how far it gets him.

Correct... not above the law..Extenuating circumstances?... for sure. Await the full story to see what comes.

Just worries me that if you're bleeding out or getting your brains bashed out, you want me to come along at 50kmph to save you...

Cop cars are faster than Ambos and Fire Trucks - they are lumbering bricks on the road, cars aren't.

Joe Public doesn't respond to urgent duty matters, so I don't see your point there....or is that a fish hook embeddedin my cheek?

jrandom

24th January 2007, 08:38

Yes please, any response to these thing would be preferable to the current situation.

Do you have first or second-hand experience of a slow Police response to a violent crime in progress?

Because that sure doesn't fit with what I've seen.

pervert

24th January 2007, 08:39

Yes please, any response to these thing would be preferable to the current situation.

Haha that's brilliant...unfortunatly I'm not allowed to give anymore green rep out for 24 hours otherwise you'd be getting some. :laugh:

jrandom

24th January 2007, 08:41

Having said that, 115kph at 8.43am outside a school is perhaps not advisable, although as none of us was there at the time, who knows what really happened?

What she said.

We don't have full information, so it's difficult to do a proper job of Monday-morning-quarterbacking.

The cop was undoubtedly a dangerous cunt with no regard for human life or safety, though; after all, isn't that why cops join the force? That, and the awesome rate of pay, naturally.

Motu

24th January 2007, 08:43

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:43

Pretty standard for the Police in all emergency situations...no?

Unless of course someone's doing 106km in a 100km area...:laugh:

Yup,
Everybody want to be cut from their wreck,
Everybody wants a band aid on their gashed head
Nobody wants a ticket for their crap driving
so they don't call the cops.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:45

Do you have first or second-hand experience of a slow Police response to a violent crime in progress?

Because that sure doesn't fit with what I've seen.

Sortof explains the above comments about non responding...

A burglary that is hours old, offenders long gone, will be delayed while we go to the bashing in progress, happening now,.... but this has been pointed out before and some just don't get it...:brick: :slap:

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:46

Amazing, start a thread about a 'Police screw-up' and the trolls that leap out of the woods is really scarey, does KB attract that type of person or have they just got sad lives anyway???

Patrick

24th January 2007, 08:48

I don't see why Cops should be allowd to speed when gixer riders can't,why should they they get away with it when we can't? Everyone should abide by the same rules.....except if someone is stealing my ipod.

All gixer riders speed... cops get speeding tickets too... but this is a cop going to a bus crash with at least 10 injured kids on board....damn that fish hook is biting in...

Finn

24th January 2007, 08:49

You pussies. If a kid ran out onto the road and got hit by a car doing 55, they'd still be floor pizza. And don't tell me the driver would have enough time to stop because most kiwi's are in a coma while driving. Besides, what are kids doing on the road in the first place?

Besides, more damage is being done to our kids while at school.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 08:51

A burglary that is hours old, offenders long gone, will be delayed while we go to the bashing in progress, happening now...

Indeed.

I think most folk here acknowledge that, but have a beef with the level of resourcing that traffic policing gets, as opposed to the saving-babies and ninjitsu-ing violent criminals stuff.

What they still fail to get, though, is that the Gummint has allocated more resources for general policing, but the new cops have to come from somewhere, don't they?

And I don't see any of the habitual whingers lining up to join the force.

Must be our colonial heritage. Gotta have something to complain about.

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 08:51

Correct... not above the law..Extenuating circumstances?... for sure. Await the full story to see what comes.

Joe Public doesn't respond to urgent duty matters, so I don't see your point there....or is that a fish hook embeddedin my cheek?

No, Joe public does respond to urgent duty matters (at least they are urgent to the individual involved). The 'reason' given for that cop's excessive speed was that the road conditions were good with traffic being light.
I'm late for an early start at work, on the motorway at 3.30am, there is no other traffic, I am doing 145kph. The only cop out of bed is just up ahead. Do you think that I am not walking??
Note: - my excuse is just the same, BUT I was doing 45 over, not 65....

pervert

24th January 2007, 08:54

Amazing, start a thread about a 'Police screw-up' and the trolls that leap out of the woods is really scarey, does KB attract that type of person or have they just got sad lives anyway???

Are you able to submit a post without using the word 'troll' or 'trolls'?

Those words seem to consume you...

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:55

No, Joe public does respond to urgent duty matters (at least they are urgent to the individual involved). The 'reason' given for that cop's excessive speed was that the road conditions were good with traffic being light.
I'm late for an early start at work, on the motorway at 3.30am, there is no other traffic, I am doing 145kph. The only cop out of bed is just up ahead. Do you think that I am not walking??
Note: - my excuse is just the same, BUT I was doing 45 over, not 65....

Aw, c'mon, stop with the trolling already.....

scumdog

24th January 2007, 08:57

Are you able to submit a post without using the word 'troll' or 'trolls'?

Those words seem to consume you...

Are you STILL trolling????

Riff Raff

24th January 2007, 09:04

Actually, for car accidents, or even bus accidents, both FIRE and AMBO are restricted in how fast they can go to get there. I think thoses services can only respond to calls at a max of 40 km/hr above the speed limit.
30km/h over speed limit for ambulances on all priority one jobs. I've been pinged by a speed camera doing 83kph (downhill) in a 50kph zone in the ambulance on a P1 job and had the ticket sent to me once it was established that I was the driver. The firm leaves it up to us to get off it.

On another note, at one stage they stopped sending further details on the pager when going to a cardiac arrest if it was a baby or child involved because of how it affected driving. It's a natural instinct to forget the rules when faced with the prospect of a child dying.

We don't know the circumstances of the cop in question - but people will take any opportunity to do cop bashing.

SwanTiger

24th January 2007, 09:11

Finally, the media has found their next bullshit story to frenzy over, the 6 o'clock news was starting to get a bit bland.

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 09:23

Aw, c'mon, stop with the trolling already.....

Its a boring job, but somebody has to do it. We sometimes even get a strike! Landing 'em takes real skill tho'.....

McJim

24th January 2007, 09:28

This just goes to show that Invercargill will do ANYTHING to get on the news.

Why don't we see how many motorcyles we can get on their new velodrome track at once.

that would be fun.

davereid

24th January 2007, 09:28

Winston001

24th January 2007, 10:09

I think this is one of these situations where the police traffic commander has decided to make an example of the officer. The police are sensitive to criticism from the public so they prosecute officers to prove there is no favouritism.

I drive down this particular road every morning taking my children to school. It is a very wide road (two lanes each side, plus a cycle lane) and even at 8:43am is lightly trafficed. The sergeant stopped at the pedestrian crossing, and then accelerated going away from the school (which is on the other side of the road anyway).

Frankly I think this prosecution is a crock. My children use this road and I don't believe he posed any danger to them or anyone else. Using the lights and siren he'd have been visible for at least a kilometer from both sides of this road.

The judge will decide today.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 10:12

30km/h over speed limit for ambulances on all priority one jobs. I've been pinged by a speed camera doing 83kph (downhill) in a 50kph zone in the ambulance on a P1 job and had the ticket sent to me once it was established that I was the driver. The firm leaves it up to us to get off it.

Bummer!!! Ambos usually struggle to get up over the limit I thought...:innocent:

Firm asks us for a please explain or pay up...even if the red and blues are going in the photo...

As for AMbos and Fireys being sent tickets when the lights are going...that's just rude.:shutup:

imdying

24th January 2007, 10:12

Patrick

24th January 2007, 10:14

I'm not sure its a media beat up.

Lots of times its important for the cops to get to a job quickly.

If the cop was going to provide specialist medical care, fair enough.

But I'm not sure just going to write up the ticket is a need for high speed response.

No, not a media beat up for once. As for the ticket call.. sheesh... trolling.... helping injured kiddies does it for me.

ajturbo

24th January 2007, 10:59

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 12:12

Do you have first or second-hand experience of a slow Police response to a violent crime in progress?

Because that sure doesn't fit with what I've seen.

Hmm, violent? - No.
One of the neighbours, pissed shooting at my parent's house with a rifle in the middle of the day - yes. Mother had to go out (through line of fire) and lay a complaint with the police before they would react. Then they sent 2 cops in one car. Mind you turned violent then, and there was a massive response at that point when the 2 cops got beat up. Burglary - yes

scumdog

24th January 2007, 12:15

Hmm, violent? - No.
One of the neighbours, pissed shooting at my parent's house with a rifle in the middle of the day - yes. Mother had to go out (through line of fire) and lay a complaint with the police before they would react. Then they sent 2 cops in one car. Mind you turned violent then, and there was a massive response at that point when the 2 cops got beat up. Burglary - yes

Hmmmm, yep, sounds like life in the Noff Island.

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 12:17

Charged with Dangerous....rightly so. Not above the law, is he? Extenuating circumstances?? Needed to be somewhere in a hurry?? Let Joe Public use that 'excuse' and see how far it gets him.

You don't normally sound this stupid.

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 12:26

You don't normally sound this stupid.

*winds in another one*....might have reached my quota for today

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 12:36

....damn that fish hook is biting in...

Yes it is, we have hooked a couple of cops so far. Not a bad catch given the number of cops on KB.

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 12:38

Yes it is, we have hooked a couple of cops so far. Not a bad catch given the number of cops on KB.

Sorry make that 3, more to come shortly.

scumdog

24th January 2007, 12:44

Are you able to submit a post without using the word 'troll' or 'trolls'?

Those words seem to consume you...

See posts 46, 47, 48 on this thread to see why........

Don't feed the trolls - they're big and ugly enough as it is.!!!!!!!!!!!

scumdog

24th January 2007, 12:46

Sorry make that 3, more to come shortly.

We win 'cos when we're trolling there's more of you public to catch!:nya:

Sadly though it's like shooting fish in a barrel.:yes: :shutup:

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 12:48

We win 'cos when we're trolling there's more of you public to catch!:nya:

Sadly though it's like shooting fish in a barrel.:yes: :shutup:

Sorry, it works on percentages, we got about 30% (give or take) - you loose.

24th January 2007, 12:49

I will be in for a fair bit of flaming with the following statement:

Kids should not run in front of a vehicle with flashing lights and wailing sirens....

Everything seems to revolve around kids these days, they need to be taught that they are not always going to be protected and will eventually need to think for themselves....

Rant over

And yes, I do have kids (grown up now)!

Al

jrandom

24th January 2007, 12:50

One of the neighbours, pissed shooting at my parent's house with a rifle in the middle of the day...

Really? Seriously? Your mum called 111 and reported a shooting in progress, and they asked her to pop by the station and register a complaint?

Something's not quite right there.

"Hi. There's a guy with a rifle shooting at our house. I'm huddled on the floor in the corridor. Help."

"Sorry, ma'am, all our units in the area are busy handing out speeding tickets. Can you do a sniper-crawl over to your garage, drive to the local station and fill out a form?"

McJim

24th January 2007, 12:52

You don't normally sound this stupid.

Respectfully though a lot of police ask dumbarsed questions too. "Do you know how fast you were travelling?" - "Well you're the one with the radar that's going to charge me regardless of what I say - why bother with the dumbarsed rhetoric?"

Is there a script given to HP in order to illicit the maximum ire from the general public?

Why not just wander up to the window, ticket already written and say "121kph in a 100kph Area - here's yer ticket, laters"

I've only heard this second hand of course coz I've never actually met a copper. They never stop me. I get waved through roadblocks (ask Hellraiser - he witnessed it) I never seem to be speeding in the same area as the police.

I'm just sticking up for MSTRS the way you fellas stick up for each other here. :)

Laters.

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 12:58

Really? Seriously? Your mum called 111 and reported a shooting in progress, and they asked her to pop by the station and register a complaint?

Something's not quite right there.

"Hi. There's a guy with a rifle shooting at our house. I'm huddled on the floor in the corridor. Help."

"Sorry, ma'am, all our units in the area are busy handing out speeding tickets. Can you do a sniper-crawl over to your garage, drive to the local station and fill out a form?"

Straight up, no piss take.

I guess that who ever took the call just didn't believe that in the middle of a city, mid week, in the middle of the day that something like that would actually be happening.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 12:58

"Do you know how fast you were travelling?"... I've only heard this second hand of course coz I've never actually met a copper.

Last copper that ticketed me just walked up and said "I got you back there doing 110. Could I see your licence, please?"

(That was on the pushie, of course - pity it wasn't outfitted with Campag, or I would undoubtedly have been going much slower.)

scumdog

24th January 2007, 13:00

I'm just sticking up for MSTRS the way you fellas stick up for each other here. :)

Laters.

Why?
D'you think MSTRS and his ilk are outnumbered????
Or out-thought??

Just some more dumb cop questions...

jrandom

24th January 2007, 13:06

I guess that who ever took the call just didn't believe that in the middle of a city, mid week, in the middle of the day that something like that would actually be happening.

Jesus. I'm surprised that a dispatcher giving a 'shooting in progress' call such low priority didn't result in a serious reprimand or summat. Sounds more like seriously bad performance from one individual rather than a systemic problem.

I can't help but think that I must be missing something here.

Are you sure your mum made the situation clear over the phone?

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 13:08

....

Just some more dumb cop questions...

Now comeon ...they are straight out of the manual, aren't they??

rwh

24th January 2007, 13:10

Nice troll - but you won't get a bite from me seeing as you know all the facts.

Seems like a pretty good reason not to bite Patrick's troll either.

Richard

scumdog

24th January 2007, 13:12

Not 'dumb cop questions'...they are straight out of the manual, aren't they??

Yeah, the one written by some member of the the public that thought he knew what he was talking about......again.
And as usual Gov't paid at the lowest possible sum... and you all got what you paid for.:nya:

McJim

24th January 2007, 13:13

Why?
D'you think MSTRS and his ilk are outnumbered????
Or out-thought??

Just some more dumb cop questions...

My point exactly - I'm trying to parody to you what we hear from officers.

There's no point really coz as police officers you are always right until the judge tells us we are right.

And so it continues *sigh*

Who's gonna crawl back under the bridge first? Those darn billy goats make a lot of racket with their hooves.

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 13:16

Yeah, the one written by some member of the the public that thought he knew what he was talking about......again.
And as usual Gov't paid at the lowest possible sum... and you all got what you paid for.:nya:

Ah, a Government Advisor then....or a Consultant ?? Winja could do better. Let me know when you decide to leave the bush - we could pop round and 'consult' with him:innocent:

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 13:29

Jesus. I'm surprised that a dispatcher giving a 'shooting in progress' call such low priority didn't result in a serious reprimand or summat. Sounds more like seriously bad performance from one individual rather than a systemic problem.

I can't help but think that I must be missing something here.

Are you sure your mum made the situation clear over the phone?

Well no, I wasn't there - was a about 1km down the road at the time she made the call, so can't be sure she made it 100% clear. Saw the chopper and heard the din when the 2 cops got beaten up though.

Taking the point about failure by an individual, I can dig that, however, she did actually go to the Police station and make a complaint as directed.

So again at least another individual screwed up by sending 2 unarmed cops to apprehend 2 people with guns. Not only did they have guns, but were obviously prepared to use them. I suspect however, the decision to send a single car and 2 cops was taken by more than one person at the police station.

Anyway, enough of this, my initial post started out as a troll, then you called me, now it's getting all serious.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 13:31

my initial post started out as a troll, then you called me...

That's what makes it fun.

MWVT

24th January 2007, 13:37

I'm with the cops here, cops have to get there in a hurry sometimes, so they take risks. Those risks will occasionally kill/hurt someone. That is the price you pay for having a police force that actually makes a real attempt to respond to crime.

Having said that, there has to be a limit (200kmh through ponsonby road to a shoplifting would be unreasonable for eg) but in that respect our system is working here, he is going to have his day in court, and by the sounds of it, his defense can include sensible arguments like, it was priority one, slowed for the crossing, traffic was light etc etc.

The fact that this is not a case of 106 > 50 = Youre a baby killer, means there is hope for sense to prevail.

pervert

24th January 2007, 13:46

SPman

24th January 2007, 14:00

pervert

24th January 2007, 14:05

"What ifs..", "maybes..."

Maybe the sun will shine tomorrow. What if a UFO had landed nearby.

He DIDN'T run down kids, he DIDN'T wipe out an "innocent" family in a heinous crash.

He DID get to a serious situation as quickly and safely as he could.

Whats the f**kin problem?

Jesus - time for society to get a life!

Wow, that's fucking classic.

What if I go and get drunk off my face and then drive home...but DON'T crash or cause any problems on the road. I DID get home ok, and without having to pay $20 for a taxi...:laugh:

Would you say "Whats the f**kin problem?" then?

The 'what if' or 'maybe' factor is what makes things wrong to start with. Not every drink driver or speeder kills/injures someone, but the 'what if' or 'maybe' factor is what makes them a problem.

avgas

24th January 2007, 14:09

pervert

24th January 2007, 14:12

Fuck it man, at least the cop was doing his job for once.
I hate it when people rubbish cops for helping you out.
Its not like he was trying to out drag boy racers or get home in time for dinner.
Get a life and get rid of your tall poppy syndrome.

Haha I don't think anywhere here is showing signs of tall poppy syndrome, you might want to research that expression and it's meaning.

MOST people ragging on the cops in this thread are just fishing/trolling, nothing more.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 15:17

Seems like a pretty good reason not to bite Patrick's troll either.

Richard

Was I trolling...? How did I go? I didn't even realise... Huh???:gob:

Skyryder

24th January 2007, 15:19

I'm not going to pretend to know all the facts but the title of the thread implies that the officer was charged with 'dangerouse driving,' not speeding. Now I can understand the need to speed in an emergency but 'dangerouse driving' where the safety of the public is compromised. No one, but no one has that right............... for any reason.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Any bets that the Judge will find the officer guilty advise him to appeal and in all probability he/she will win the appeal. And in the mean time the apologists will rally behind the officer and make excuses for him/her. Deju vu??????

Skyryder

Patrick

24th January 2007, 15:27

One thing that never fails to amuse me is how the cops (especially here on KB) stick up for each other relentlessly. Doesn't matter what the post is in regards to, they all flock like ducks to bread and stick up for their fellow kind.

Had said Policeman run down three children whilst travelling at 115kmph in this area, I have no doubt you lot would still claim he was in the right...:laugh:

troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll

Yep, sure do... gotta stick together because when you get dumped on by the public, the media and even our own bosses, even when you try to get to injured kiddies quickly it would seem, who else is going to stick up for ya?

Funny thing about this job is it doesn't take much to find out what really went on (facts), which is quite the opposite of what "stories" many want to believe... here in KB land too on occasions...

Gotta get there safely, as he did. He would be on his own trying to explain if he hit kiddies responding, but he didn't...

scumdog

24th January 2007, 15:28

Will be interesting to see what happens. Any bets that the Judge will find the officer guilty advise him to appeal and in all probability he/she will win the appeal. And in the mean time the apologists will rally behind the officer and make excuses for him/her. Deju vu??????

Skyryder

The 'facts' as gleamed by myself smell of a 'stitch-up' job.

But them everybody will say I'm biased.

(What do KBers say when I agree with the Joe Citizen point of view agaist Police? so far on each occassion it's been a fat nothing on the public forum but afew green reps and + comments were forwarded.)

Biased??
Sure we ALL are.

SPman

24th January 2007, 15:41

Would you say "Whats the f**kin problem?" then?

Things only become a problem, if you let them.

rwh

24th January 2007, 15:41

Was I trolling...? How did I go? I didn't even realise... Huh???:gob:

Sorry, that was more a response to scumdog. If trolling is an attempt to get people to rave about (discuss) something they don't know enough about, then it probably was.

My point was that he was complaining that we don't have enough evidence to say that the cop was driving safely - we also don't have enough evidence (on here) to say that he wasn't. If we need evidence before we express an opinion, then pretty much nobody here has the right to an opinion on this matter. Note I haven't expressed one ...

Maybe this was dangerous driving; maybe it wasn't. I wasn't there, and there certainly wasn't enough info in your post to suggest it was safe.

If, on the other hand, you're trying to claim that dangerous driving is acceptable in the case of an emergency - that it's worth knocking over a couple more people to get to the 11 already injured - then I disagree.

Richard

madandy

24th January 2007, 15:55

I don't really understand the point of all this 'trolling/fishing'!

From statements made by a local and by Cops the speed travelled along the road in question was pretty fair.
I can't imagine too many greater emergencies than injured kids in a school bus.

I've had my dealings with Police that didn't go my way...I dislike the level of resources spent on speed but thats govt./ltsa policy not the cops choosing to chase us round the twisties rather than waiting to be called for true crime.

Give these guys a break FFS! They are motorcyclists, Kiwi bikers even.

If someone wrongly gave my mates ,or collegues in my industry shit, I'd sure as hell stand up for them too.

MSTRS

24th January 2007, 16:09

Biased??
Sure we ALL are.

You speak for yourself, young man. The rest of us just generalise.:nono:

Winston001

24th January 2007, 16:42

Ok, decision released. The original charge was "driving at a dangerous speed" - not proven. However the Judge did convict the officer on the lesser charge of "driving at excess speed".

The Judge then considered the circumstances for sentencing and discharged the officer without conviction. So no conviction at all.

A win for common sense.

The Stranger

24th January 2007, 16:44

If we need evidence before we express an opinion, then pretty much nobody here has the right to an opinion on this matter. Note I haven't expressed one ...

Um, well, actually you did. You expressed an opinion about peoples opinions.

madandy

24th January 2007, 16:47

mstriumph

24th January 2007, 16:50

...................
The 'what if' or 'maybe' factor is what makes things wrong to start with. Not every drink driver or speeder kills/injures someone, but the 'what if' or 'maybe' factor is what makes them a problem.

that's life, innit? a process of weighing potential risks against desireable outcomes ......... lighten up, bro - we ALL do it

Patrick

24th January 2007, 17:03

If, on the other hand, you're trying to claim that dangerous driving is acceptable in the case of an emergency - that it's worth knocking over a couple more people to get to the 11 already injured - then I disagree.

Richard

Opps... I didn't realise anyone was hit...:innocent:

His speed was caught on a camera... no complaints whatsoever... a photo...

Trolling aside... the point I was making is this...

Do I speed to your rescue, or cruise along at the normal speed for fear of being prosecuted for dangerous speed.

Personally, I will still get there as fast and as safe as I can... (Sill no driving complaints in 21 years of "rapid response" work).

davereid

24th January 2007, 17:21

Do I speed to your rescue, or cruise along at the normal speed for fear of being prosecuted for dangerous speed.

Just keep your lights on and get to me at or just above the legal speed limit. No point joining the dozens of cops who crash their car, injure themselves or someone else every year. Fire and ambo have to drive safely, so should the plice.

Patrick

24th January 2007, 17:32

Just keep your lights on and get to me at or just above the legal speed limit. No point joining the dozens of cops who crash their car, injure themselves or someone else every year. Fire and ambo have to drive safely, so should the plice.

If it is burglars, my lights will not be on... I wanna catch em, not advertise my pending arrival.

Fire and Ambo crashes occur, been to some myself, but since there is less of em (vehicles I mean), they are not as obvious.

The point is always getting there without creating carnage or complaint... as the Invercargill cop did... but look what happened to him.

Let me know your home address so I can advise the troops to cruise to your place at 51kmph next time you get burgled (or worse...). :shutup: :innocent:
BIG P/T here...

madandy

24th January 2007, 17:33

If you expect cops to amble along a legal or "...just above..." legal speeds they are just gonna cruise along with the traffic flow and only overtake if traffic is below posted limits and pulls over. Sometimes cops need to drive very quickly just to to make up for time lost waiting for useless twats to move their shitheaps to the side of the road...
As for Ambo's & big red trucks diving safely, they kinda have too dude. You try driving one quickly, they aint exactly race cars...Fire trucks DO get rolled.

Skyryder

24th January 2007, 17:33

jimbo600

24th January 2007, 17:42

If it is burglars, my lights will not be on... I wanna catch em, not advertise my pending arrival.

Fire and Ambo crashes occur, been to some myself, but since there is less of em (vehicles I mean), they are not as obvious.

The point is always getting there without creating carnage or complaint... as the Invercargill cop did... but look what happened to him.

Let me know your home address so I can advise the troops to cruise to your place at 51kmph next time you get burgled (or worse...). :shutup: :innocent:
BIG P/T here...

End of the day I guess it comes down to the situation at hand. You guys know what your doing, undergo heaps of training and make a proper decision at the time. A bit like when I pull the occasional wheelie.

I'm glad the officer down south wasn't done.

Skyryder

24th January 2007, 18:25

The 'facts' as gleamed by myself smell of a 'stitch-up' job.

But them everybody will say I'm biased.

(What do KBers say when I agree with the Joe Citizen point of view agaist Police? so far on each occassion it's been a fat nothing on the public forum but afew green reps and + comments were forwarded.)

Biased??
Sure we ALL are.

I'd be 'gleaming' too if I walked away from 115kmph in a 50 k zone without a conviction.

This sort of decision by the Judge will one day be the cause of a seriouse accident. It only reinforces the idea that the Police are immune from the law that they are sworn to uphold........not only within the police culture but society at large. There just is no other way to say it.

The vibes are out there floating around when you agree with us SD. It's the wave length that gets weaker the further south you go. Blame it on the ozone hole.:sunny:

Yep we are all biased but us Cantabs have turned it into part of our culture that is the envy of all NZ: one eyed. :innocent: I am continually trying to educating the KB community on its merrits.

Then there was the cop :Police: who suffered from arrested development. When at last he made a collar :2thumbsup he insisted that the perp be transfered to the K9 Unit. :dodge:

Skyryder

terbang

24th January 2007, 18:43

Well the cop that chased two of us up SH39 yesterday would have picked up a jail term for his speed.

avgas

24th January 2007, 18:53

Haha I don't think anywhere here is showing signs of tall poppy syndrome
You didnt read the quote about those who says - "Its not fair, the cops shouldn't be allowed to go faster than me!" then?
They're the cops - of all people should be allowed to speed, otherwise what is the point.

McJim

24th January 2007, 19:40

I just re-read the title and had an epiphany. It wasn't the speed. He has been charged with dangerous driving. We've all assumed it's speed related but there could be something else involved.

Lou Girardin

24th January 2007, 19:48

Was it between 8.00 and 9.00AM or 2.30 and 3.30PM?
If not, this is just more Police headquarters bullshit.
Trying to show us that no-one is above the law.
They'll have all emergency services too afraid to exceed posted limits soon.
Wait till someone dies as a result of a slow response.

pervert

24th January 2007, 19:58

Was it between 8.00 and 9.00AM

Yes it was.

rwh

24th January 2007, 21:26

Um, well, actually you did. You expressed an opinion about peoples opinions.

Not on the subject in question. I'll happily express opinions on all sorts of other things. :whocares:

Richard

Squeak the Rat

24th January 2007, 22:14

Damn, a cbt...

There are defined rules for speed during incident response. We're always told by the coppas that if we break the rules and get caught then we shouldn't complain. He got caught, court decided, stop complaining.

But as is often the case :innocent: I'm not sure I agree with the rule or the enforcement of it. Nor do I have issue with rules being ignored providing no one is put at risk.

If you wanna speed to save me then go for it. If your trying to catch me then naughty naughty!

oldrider

24th January 2007, 22:42

Just trying to gloss over Helen's little episode at Waimate, showing that nobody except her is above the law, especially the Police!
While of course she remains :innocent:.
I see he was discharged in court but why was he charged in the first place. :nono: Cynical as ever, John.

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 22:46

*winds in another one*....might have reached my quota for today

Easy aye, know any other good tricks?

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 22:53

Respectfully though a lot of police ask dumbarsed questions too. "Do you know how fast you were travelling?" - "Well you're the one with the radar that's going to charge me regardless of what I say - why bother with the dumbarsed rhetoric?"

Is there a script given to HP in order to illicit the maximum ire from the general public?

Why not just wander up to the window, ticket already written and say "121kph in a 100kph Area - here's yer ticket, laters"

I've only heard this second hand of course coz I've never actually met a copper. They never stop me. I get waved through roadblocks (ask Hellraiser - he witnessed it) I never seem to be speeding in the same area as the police.

I'm just sticking up for MSTRS the way you fellas stick up for each other here. :)

Laters.

1: Nothing wrong with a bit of road side trolling.

2: Don't know, I've never worked for them.

3: Its polite to ask if they have an explanation, isn't it?

4: Never met a copper? You met me recently on a ride from the Ashhurst Mobil. Were you speeding that day? My speedo never went past 100kph!:innocent:

5: MSTRS is a seasoned campaigner on this site and judging from his reply he was seeking the very response that I provided him, I'm sure he doesn't really need your help.

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 22:57

Now comeon ...they are straight out of the manual, aren't they??

Ask Lou how the MOT snakes were trained to deal with people.

"Good evening driver, may I have your driver's licence for inspection, please"?

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 23:04

spudchucka

24th January 2007, 23:07

I just re-read the title and had an epiphany. It wasn't the speed. He has been charged with dangerous driving. We've all assumed it's speed related but there could be something else involved.

You can be charged with dangerous manner or dangerous speed, both amount to the same thing in terms of penalties etc.

Ixion

24th January 2007, 23:35

One of the characteristics most necessary in a police officer is sound judgement (I know, I've said this before). A cop whose judgement is consistently bad will be a liability to himself , the force, and the public; and is unlikely to last long.

Also, for reasons that are fairly obvious, society has agreed to exempt the police (under certain defined conditions ) from various rules that govern the rest of us. For instance, if I go about with a pistol in my pocket I will be in big trouble when caught. A cop is (sometimes) exempted from this. Likewise a cop is (sometimes, and subject to conditions) exempted from speed laws.

Now , if a cop utilises that exemption in a way that shows poor judgement, then I suggest that should be a disciplinary matter within the force, not a criminal charge. Officer Bumblebee should have faced a bollocking from Senior Sergeant, and a note on his record. If he incurs many such notes , then the suggestion might need to be made that a policeman's lot is , for him, not a happy one. But it is counterproductive to drag him up in court for doing what is, in fact, his job.

Squeak the Rat

25th January 2007, 06:07

1: Nothing wrong with a bit of road side trolling.

I'm not surprised by that response and I fear that is not completely in jest. Any surprise a lot of kiwis don't like cops?

Patrick

25th January 2007, 07:36

I'm not surprised by that response and I fear that is not completely in jest. Any surprise a lot of kiwis don't like cops?

Only those that choose to speed and break laws and get caught occasionally...

The silent majority still rules...

scumdog

25th January 2007, 07:53

I'm not surprised by that response and I fear that is not completely in jest. Any surprise a lot of kiwis don't like cops?

I fear you see that as a negative thing??:whistle: :wait:

Grahameeboy

25th January 2007, 08:09

I think that as long as the cops use sirens etc then they should be allowed to do what they do. This case seems to have been an issue because it happened at or near a school but surely with all bells blazing the Police have clearly made their presence known and adults, kids know the score.

Presumably the cops have to make a log of emergency incidents and like all of us in jobs, we can be pulled in for being wreckless in doing our jobs.

I think the cop has to be spoken to by his boss for the facts to be discussed but prosecuting seems a bit OT.

I agree that chases are a no brainer and the cops know the risks. The runner is only running because the cops are chasing. No chase........not worth the risk for a speeder or stolen car......no accident.

But as usual some here use this to castrate the Police

MSTRS

25th January 2007, 08:33

4: Never met a copper? You met me recently on a ride from the Ashhurst Mobil. Were you speeding that day? My speedo never went past 100kph!:innocent:

Don't think McJim has ridden that far south of Auckland....

spudchucka

25th January 2007, 09:40

Don't think McJim has ridden that far south of Auckland....

Must have been fatjim or jim2 or some other bloody Jim, they all look alike those bloody Jims.

MSTRS

25th January 2007, 09:45

Must have been fatjim or jim2 or some other bloody Jim, they all look alike those bloody Jims.
One may very well think so....if one was O'd on donuts:gob:

Lou Girardin

25th January 2007, 19:49

Ask Lou how the MOT snakes were trained to deal with people.

"Good evening driver, may I have your driver's licence for inspection, please"?

That's it spud.
Never used outside of Trentham - unless you wanted to wind someone up.

I see that the copper has had the charge reduced to exceeding 50 km/h by the Judge.
Lucky bastid.

Ixion

25th January 2007, 20:12

'Ere, wot 'appened to "Good evening, Sir" . And touch yer forelock when ya say it , too.

Pixie

25th January 2007, 23:06

Are you able to submit a post without using the word 'troll' or 'trolls'?

Those words seem to consume you...

No trolls consume goats.
Or so I have been told

Pixie

25th January 2007, 23:19

Now , if a cop utilises that exemption in a way that shows poor judgement, then I suggest that should be a disciplinary matter within the force,

What kind of PR snowjob would that be?

MSTRS

26th January 2007, 09:32

No trolls consume goats.
...

That is correct....however, I believe what you meant to say was, "No, trolls consume coppers":innocent:

MWVT

26th January 2007, 13:40

"He said in Smith's case, the argument for the prosecution was that the Fire Service had given a situation report to say that all persons were out of the vehicles and that there was no need for urgency at that time."

"Smith was taking his children to school when told about the bus crash that morning and had continued to do that after he had confirmed he would attend the crash."

I think the above two 'facts' (don't trust journos), would be sufficient reason to lay charges. Having said that, I think (as some others have already said) that the judges decision is excellent.

"Judge Phillips, delivering his verdict, said he did not think the driving was dangerous and amended the charge to one of driving at excess speed on a road where the speed limit was 50kph."

And another victory for common sense. Acknowledging that an assessment of 'dangerous' requires more than a speed readout.

"However, the judge agreed with a further submission from Mr Dawkins that Smith should be discharged without conviction."

The judge knew this was about 'threshold setting' and as such was far more concerned with setting a precedent than with punishing someone who was simply trying to do their job well.

Fundamentally here the system worked, a lot of us argue for speeding just for fun, how about some consistency and argue for speeding to enforce the law.