Ammo in the SUV war - From NZ researchers

[thehollowmen]

I was skiving off at work and found this little snippit in New Scientist (linky (http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/mg19325854.500-suv-owners-need-a-hand-to-drive-better.html)) and decided to find whole article.

It was easily available on google when I looked up the authors names.

If you like dry reading, try the attachment, if you want a summery click the link above.

In the conclusion of the paper there is this:

"SUVs have a negative impact on the environment and the general safety of road users. Large SUV drivers are likely to raise safety arguments when defending the use of their SUV, but safety concerns do not appear to motivate drivers to purchase SUVs. In fact, there is some evidence to support the belief that SUV drivers overestimate their driving ability and safety, and are more likely to perform high risk behaviours when driving."

Finally something on paper and peer reviewed that can back up what we have "known all along".

[gamgee]

post it somewhere on the trademe messageboards, should be good for a laugh, all the idiots with suv's will come outta the woodwork

[Finn]

You whiney little fuckin peasants. Upset because you can't afford one? Poor, poor people. Why can't you just shut the fuck up and be content with your own little lives.

I got a SUV to tow my 2300kg boat and dirt bike trailer. I'm sorry but a MKIII Cortina just didn't cut the mustard. Also, I only consider the safety of me and my passengers on the road. Kiwi's can hardly chew gum and walk at the same time, so putting them behind the wheel of a car is just crazy. It's war out there so what ever you do, don't pull out in front of me, especially on a motorbike. I don't like wearing my brake pads down so you're likely to become a hood ornament.

And what happened to the macho image of the kiwi bloke? Big cars for cool toys.

Losers.

[R6_kid]

truth comes to those who wait... lets hope they take themselves out without injuring any of us.

[Finn]

And you'll be pleased to know that I'm buying a Dodge RAM 2500 for a new venture. I'm really looking forward to pissing people off in it too. I can just see it now...

GF: "Hey big boy, what's that on the grill?"
Finn: "Oh, looks like a scooter with bits of student"
GF: "Oh no!"
Finn: "Don't worry dollface, it'll buff out"

[gamgee]

at least you're using it for something similar to it's purpose rather than just another soccer mum, which are the ones I (we?) hate

[Fatjim]

And you'll be pleased to know that I'm buying a Dodge RAM 2500 for a new venture. I'm really looking forward to pissing people off in it too. I can just see it now...

GF: "Hey big boy, what's that on the grill?"
Finn: "Oh, looks like a scooter with bits of student"
GF: "Oh no!"
Finn: "Don't worry dollface, it'll buff out"

Is that a george foreman Grill mate?

[Finn]

Is that a george foreman Grill mate?

Yeah mate. No fat on me.

[Ixion]

what ever you do, don't pull out in front of me, especially on a motorbike. I don't like wearing my brake pads down so you're likely to become a hood ornament.


You got a long, long way to go before you catch up to Mr Motu and his Pajero.

[Finn]

You got a long, long way to go before you catch up to Mr Motu and his Pajero.

Actually I had a Pajero for a few years. They're one of the best off road vehicle's around.

What's his count?

[Motu]

. Upset because you can't afford one?
Losers.

Even a poor white boy like me can afford one - you can pick up a 1989 LWB Pajero like mine pretty cheap.It has many battle scars and a big fucking bullbar with lots of lights - I love watching some dipswitch planning a stupid move on me,then you can see their little brain ticking over,and the most important thing that rises to the surface is - ''ooo fuck,what a big heap of shit,I bet he hasn't got insurance''.No way will they tangle with me! Best game is those little twerps who shoot up the inside lane and squeeze into the non existant gap between me and the car in front,expecting me to drop back.Except I don't - I move forward! All they can see is a row of headlights 6in off their rear bumper.

Fuckwits - just a little hint if you are out there on the roads....beware of the ex Coconut blue Pajero....is he insured....or is he not....you decide!

[Finn]

Yeah but shiney SUV's are easier to pick on.

Top effort though Motu.

[James Deuce]

".... In fact, there is some evidence to support the belief that SUV drivers overestimate their driving ability and safety, and are more likely to perform high risk behaviours when driving."

That attitude gives me the heebie jeebies. It's used to justify the lack of support for advanced driver/rider training. There are a lot of large SUV drivers who are active in 4wd clubs and can probably cope with dodgy road conditions a lot better than a bike can.

[James Deuce]

And you'll be pleased to know that I'm buying a Dodge RAM 2500 for a new venture. I'm really looking forward to pissing people off in it too. I can just see it now...


Nice. There's a guy in Wellington with a red one. Frequently shuts down some of the narrower Wellington roads.

[Ixion]

,,
Fuckwits - just a little hint if you are out there on the roads....beware of the ex Coconut blue Pajero....is he insured....or is he not....you decide!

And the battle scarred 1986 white LWB. I've found that if you hit a big tree hard enough you CAN dent a Phase 1 Pajero bumper. Doesnt do any other damage. I reckon my bonnet weighs as much as an entire ricer.

[kro]

Most types of vehicles have nae-sayers dogging their every move, whether it's bikes being unsafe, or trucks being to big, or diesels being too smoky.

Whilst I don't agree with Finns comments regarding who can and cannot afford the vehicles, I do agree that people should stop whining about them, as they really are no different than a van, and like any vehicle, they carry a certain responsibility to make sure they are operated properly.

[Motu]

My latest dent was caused by a strut we were compressing,the spring flew out of the strut compressor,ricocheted of the press and slamed into the Pajero - the rear pillar has a couple of big dents where the spring hit it,not even scratching the paint.There were a couple of flash cars in the shop that day,an Alfa 156 was right behind me...so lucky the Pajero was parked in the right place.Some people might get upset with a dent in their car,but that's the whole point of owning vehicles like this,nothing matters...their value cannot be devalued anymore.

I'm driving the Lada 2104 today - this causes even more concern for other road users than the Pajero.That's their problem,not mine.

[Fatjim]

Are the old auto Pajies worth getting?

[thehollowmen]

Hey, I'm not dissing if you use it. And yes I can afford one, but then again I'm a city rat who wouldn't use it.

My folks have got one and it makes going over the gravel roads on the ranges to their house a hell of a lot easier. Spottlighting possums from them is fantastic too.

The ones people get for "show" or "safety" that haven't even seen a gravel road ... they're usually owned by the most dangerous of the drivers. The inattentive ones who talk on cellphones, use PDAs, or read magazines while driving.

Again I say "up the bar on the driving tests or restrict the power / size of those who haven't had proper training"


You whiney little fuckin peasants. Upset because you can't afford one? Poor, poor people. Why can't you just shut the fuck up and be content with your own little lives.

I got a SUV to tow my 2300kg boat and dirt bike trailer...




And like any vehicle, they carry a certain responsibility to make sure they are operated properly. Bling for that right there.

[thehollowmen]

Bling for this point, a good arguement.

I agree with the arugement about the 4WD clubs, but it also could work the other way if you start talking about training. Trails riders could probably cope with rough ground better than most 4WD drivers, but we can't limit the sample size like that.

Some people use them to their full and take the correct training and awareness, but as a whole they're 55% more likely to not be paying attention on the wellington motorway.

I don't say "outlaw SUVs" but if you know anybody they is being a bit of a tard with one, give them a nudge and tell them they're giving NZ and SUVs a bad name in international press. Make them become better drivers.




That attitude gives me the heebie jeebies. It's used to justify the lack of support for advanced driver/rider training. There are a lot of large SUV drivers who are active in 4wd clubs and can probably cope with dodgy road conditions a lot better than a bike can.

[Kickaha]

In fact, there is some evidence to support the belief that SUV drivers overestimate their driving ability and safety, and are more likely to perform high risk behaviours when driving."

And thats different from motorcyclists in what way?

[The Stranger]

GF: "Hey big boy"


Wake up Finn.

Does it come with a nail box so you can reach the door handle?

[Edbear]

I'm driving the Lada 2104 today -.



It lives...?????:gob:

[Finn]

Wake up Finn.

Does it come with a nail box so you can reach the door handle?

She wasn't referring to my height. When girls see it, they go :gob:

[The Stranger]

She wasn't referring to my height. When girls see it, they go :gob:

Well I guess it ties up with what Dover has been saying. Recons he's had a big prick on his back all week.

[Swoop]

"there is some evidence to support the belief that SUV drivers overestimate their driving ability"
The same quote can be used on every type of kiwi driver...

[terbang]

The word cockalorum springs to mind here..

[Motu]

It lives...?????:gob:

It does the job,but people want so much more than ''does the job'' these days.I treat my cars like my SK ratchet,it's over 30 years old and in my hand everyday,gets taken out and tossed in the draw without a thought or second look.Had some wimpy mechanic a couple of days ago say he couldn't get the bolts on a top inner suspension arm undone....needed a special tool.So I got my 30 year old (maybe the SK is 35 yrs old) Hazet short 3/4 ring spanner on the bolt and started slamming it with a club hammer.He was horrified and would never treat a quality tool like that.He'll never make a mechanic.....

[Edbear]

It does the job,but people want so much more than ''does the job'' these days.I treat my cars like my SK ratchet,it's over 30 years old and in my hand everyday,gets taken out and tossed in the draw without a thought or second look.Had some wimpy mechanic a couple of days ago say he couldn't get the bolts on a top inner suspension arm undone....needed a special tool.So I got my 30 year old (maybe the SK is 35 yrs old) Hazet short 3/4 ring spanner on the bolt and started slamming it with a club hammer.He was horrified and would never treat a quality tool like that.He'll never make a mechanic.....



Yeah, but SK doesn't seem to be as good these days. I've had youngsters hand me their 40 year-old SK-Wayne ratchets they inherited from their fathers and asked if they could be re-kitted. No problems and the kits seem just as they always have been. The sockets, though, seem to break too easily nowadays. UNfortunately their tools are way expensive these days compared with other brands and like Koken, I don't recommend them as a first choice.

Hazett is still as good as ever, German quality! But also quite expensive. I'll happily recommend Hazett, though it's not so easy to get hold of now.


Saw another Lada 2104 today, quietly rusting away... Personally I'll stick by our Pulsar. Absolutely reliable and bulletproof! And it has Air-con!

[Motu]

I won't buy Hazet again - they won't honour the lifetime warranty on my 1/2 ratchet,so fuckem.

I ripped all the air con out of my NX Coupe.....but the roof comes off....

The biggest worry people have these days is their no claim bonus.They really get upset if an uninsured car hits them.So driving around in a beat up wreck,and looking like one myself keeps everyone wary of me.....don't want to hit him,he won't pay for my repairs....

[Edbear]

Warranties are becoming more of an issue these days with more companies backing out. Koken is one of the worst, now and the main reason next to price that I don't recommend them. Quality is as good as ever though.

Best value for money now in my opinion is Genius. No questions over warranty and good quality gear. A Canadian company manufacturing in Taiwan since about '73.

Now be honest, Motu... how many accidents have you had in the past twenty years? Bet probably no more than I have, that's none! I think you're a bit too pessimistic.:sunny:

[kro]

it's over 30 years old and in my hand everyday

This line could so easily be Dover talking about his penis.

[Ixion]

Most useful tool in the mechanics toolbox, the BLOODY BIG HAMMER.

I wonder if it would be worth painting "I don't have insurance. Make my day." across the front of the Pajero ?

[Edbear]

Most useful tool in the mechanics toolbox, the BLOODY BIG HAMMER.

I wonder if it would be worth painting "I don't have insurance. Make my day." across the front of the Pajero ?



I have seen the bumper sticker, "Go ahead, hit me! I need the money!"

[JimO]

having had a pajero for several years several years ago i think a VX landcruser would be a better intimidator

[Ixion]

It does the job,but people want so much more than ''does the job'' these days.I treat my cars like my SK ratchet,it's over 30 years old and in my hand everyday,gets taken out and tossed in the draw without a thought or second look.Had some wimpy mechanic a couple of days ago say he couldn't get the bolts on a top inner suspension arm undone....needed a special tool.So I got my 30 year old (maybe the SK is 35 yrs old) Hazet short 3/4 ring spanner on the bolt and started slamming it with a club hammer.He was horrified and would never treat a quality tool like that.He'll never make a mechanic.....

I inherited my King Dick socket set from my father, it most be at least 70 years old . Never had a ratchet (don't think they had them then) just a couple of tommy bars. But I've had a 3 foot length of steam pipe over the tommy bar, with a 10 ton hydraulic jack wedged between the end of the pipe and the chassis, and wacking the pipe with the BLOODY BIG HAMMER. Y' do what y' have to do to get the bastards off. Never broken anything, it's functionally as good as new. Still in service, they're working tools.

Got a couple of my grandfathers wooden planes, they still do a job of work if I MUST work wood. Don't believe in show pieces. Same with bikes, my old ones still do their spell of work.

(The pipe bent)

[Timber020]

You whiney little fuckin peasants. Upset because you can't afford one? Poor, poor people. Why can't you just shut the fuck up and be content with your own little lives.

I got a SUV to tow my 2300kg boat and dirt bike trailer. I'm sorry but a MKIII Cortina just didn't cut the mustard. Also, I only consider the safety of me and my passengers on the road. Kiwi's can hardly chew gum and walk at the same time, so putting them behind the wheel of a car is just crazy. It's war out there so what ever you do, don't pull out in front of me, especially on a motorbike. I don't like wearing my brake pads down so you're likely to become a hood ornament.

And what happened to the macho image of the kiwi bloke? Big cars for cool toys.

Losers.

Dont worry Finn, Im sure the dodge will make you very happy and powerful and maybe for once in your life, dangerous to others.
You might have to go bigger than 2500, as this "peasants" 4WD's still bigger than yours (but not as pretty) , and we cant have the poor folk frightening you now can we?

Must be terrifying being you, everyone is against you, wants your stuff, all the poor people getting in your way. Calm down, its okay, nobody was picking on you by making a post on SUV's, you can get medication for paranoia you know.

Dodges are good trucks, it should serve you well.

[Phurrball]

I think that THM is getting at the war of attrition based on vehicle size, not at those who need such a vehicle, who are surely in a small minority.

I don't think any right thinking person has an issue with those that use a vehicle's capabilities - the principle offenders being the 'soccer mom', school run type urban assault vehicles that are kept waxed, and have only ever seen the dust of a skifield access road.

Anyhoo - this has been addressed before, so I'll plagarise myself:


An interesting piece of analysis on the issue is the book:

"High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way" by Keith Bradsher.

Written from the perspective of the American market and regulatory regime, but the safety aspects are applicable to NZ. The author is a motoring journalist and goes into detailed analysis of many aspects of the so-called 'SUVs'.

Motu inadvertently alludes to the 'arms race' on the road, where people in smaller vehicles can't see, and feel more vulnerable, and so change up to ever larger (often SUV) vehicles.

Trouble is that large 4WDs are heavy, and worst of all have bumpers [often bull-bars] and main vehicle mass above the door sill height of most cars. Super efficient at maximum intrusion into the passenger compartment and maximum occupant harm in a car v SUV collision. This has only come to the fore in the minds of manufacturers in very recent times, and a few have taken steps to minimise this issue.

The millions of 'SUVs' on the world's roads today will be there for some time posing this danger to other road users. The biggest problem in NZ seems to be that we are a dumping ground for Japan's unwanted 4WDs, which now fill our roads. [space constraints apparently ended the fad in Japan].

I appreciate that ground clearance and towing capacity are a necessity for some, but for most who just want 4WD grip 'when the going gets rough' [Read - ski field access road, minor snowfall, slightly dodgy gravel road] what's wrong with a 4WD CAR? All the grip of 4WD and none of the handling/safety disadvantages of a full sized ‘urban assault vehicle’. No need to have a vehicle with abilities that grossly exceed the tasks required of it is there? Shame the marketeers convinced us otherwise…


Yes Motu - I know we should ban sport bikes based on their excessive capabilities, and I do applaud you for giving karmic comeuppance to any moron who tries to muscle in front of your mighty Pajero. 4x4s have a place - and it's not as the trendy vehicle du jour in the city (unless incidentally).

[Clockwork]

at least you're using it for something similar to it's purpose rather than just another soccer mum, which are the ones I (we?) hate

How the hell would you know WHAT people use their SUV for!!! Just because it does the school run mon-fri doesn’t mean its not pulling boats & trailers or down the beach at the weekend. Do you anti's think that they should have another car for school runs while the SUV sits on their drive the rest of the time. That doesn't sound very environmentally or economically friendly to me!

The "U" stands for utility, not unnecessary.

[Finn]

The funniest thing about this research was that it was done in NZ by people like Phurball. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stupid hippies.

[Finn]

Dont worry Finn, Im sure the dodge will make you very happy and powerful

You forgot irresistible to woman.

[Finn]

4x4s have a place - and it's not as the trendy vehicle du jour in the city (unless incidentally).

Get off your soap box penus breath. Go get a job and a hair cut.

Loser.

[Coyote]

You forgot irresistible to woman.
You're a wanker, you'd love this

"Hey ladies, look how tiny my dick must be" :msn-wink:

[Coyote]

This is my type of SUV. Drive over cars in rush hour, park on top of children. It would be sweet. Plus it's a sports car so I'd know however fast I go around a corner it'll always stick to the road

[Finn]

You're a wanker, you'd love this

"Hey ladies, look how tiny my dick must be" :msn-wink:

Does it come with a guitar?

[Coyote]

Does it come with a guitar?
Does it need one?

[Finn]

Does it need one?

Every fan need a guitar bro.

[merv]

Not just da fans with ta Bongo name on then?

[Coyote]

I have no idea what you're on about

Old folks trying to be jive again I guess

[Phurrball]

The funniest thing about this research was that it was done in NZ by people like Phurball. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stupid hippies.

Sadly, no. Not my field of expertise. But on the bright side, your taxes probably paid for it :lol:


Get off your soap box penus breath. Go get a job and a hair cut.

Loser.

A nerve touched? This soap box seems to suit you to whinge about uncle Helen? Is reasoned argument really soap-box shouting; should I resort to generalisations and vulgarities?

Hate to tell you too - I'm bald. Do I still qualify as a hippie? *please* And do I really have to get a job? I'm so enjoying my PC riddled education at your expense Finn...

BTW - What's a penus? A request for a caricature perhaps??

FYI I've driven quite a number of near-new Jeeps, Range Rovers, Touregs, Lexus 4x4s etc in my employment. Can't say they did anything for me. Nice to sit in while stationary (otherwise uncommunicative to drive, couldn't hold a candle to an ordinary road car - Jeeps = worst). Good view of the road ahead (at the expense of everyone else) and mostly surprisingly easy to park (except Lexus RX330 - too rounded, no idea where the corners are).

Give me an Alfa or a hairdresser's car like yours any day Finn - involving, fun, heaps of character - and most of all, a CAR, not a personal truck.

True clockwork: If it has a purpose, fine. You're not really telling me that the myriad of new, expensive Remmers tractors I see in town are all used as designed?? I'd be willing to bet that most of the drivers of school-run urban assault vehicles DON'T come from single-vehicle families...

Just as long as people are aware of the risks of the particular class of vehicle, not just the marketing spin that convinced them to buy into an ideal - prone to roll-overs, jumping crash barriers, and not crumpling to absorb impact (ladder chassis vehicles) - not to mention the carnage wrought at the expense of other road users.

I'm aware of the risks of what I drive, be it my bike, or the ridiculously small Suzuki Alto I pilot - how many school run mums are aware of the risks of their vehicle?

You'll squash a fair few oldies trying to wear my Alto as a hood ornament Finn - should save on the superannuation bill and leave more tax $$ for research into the evils of 4x4s and the imposition of political correctness by uncle Helen :sunny:

[SwanTiger]

Hmm, interesting discussion.

At the moment I'm looking for a new car, I have narrowed it down to two, a Silverado or a series 5 BMW.

I think I'm going to get the Silverado because I enjoy pissing people off who can't get off there arse and work to afford the shit they really want - and when they see someone who has they start bitching and moaning.

Hey Finn, do you wanna borrow my daughter so you can be a real soccer mum, look the part and all that?

[JimO]

i got two 4x4s a 05 Hilux Dc that i use for work and a prado that we drag the boat about with etc the prado sits around because my wife rides to work on da bike, but when we need to use it nothing else will do (in the car line anyway) need to seat 6 + a dog carry a load and tow the boat, all you anti 4x4 people just havnt realised that you need one

[Finn]

Sadly, no. Not my field of expertise. But on the bright side, your taxes probably paid for it :lol:

What taxes? I don't pay much at all, just a token amount as a gesture. The reason? Because of people like you and besides, I think I'll decide what I spend my money on thank you.

Oh and really, a tall vehicle is much more prone to rolling than a Formula One car? I'm glad I'm not paying for your education. So now that your conformist pea brain has been dumbed down (more than inbreeding did) from the education system, you now want to save us all from the dangers of life. Exactly how many school mums have killed kids in the last year while driving their really nice SUV's?

Your try to disguise your jealously in the name safety and that it would be better for mankind if these "dangerous" vehicles were only used for towing and monkey work. May I remind you dip shit, that you're on a fucking biker site? So you wanna ban bikes too?

Crawl back under your rock you nanny state loving festering pultis.

[Finn]

i got two 4x4s a 05 Hilux Dc that i use for work and a prado that we drag the boat about with etc the prado sits around because my wife rides to work on da bike, but when we need to use it nothing else will do (in the car line anyway) need to seat 6 + a dog carry a load and tow the boat, all you anti 4x4 people just havnt realised that you need one

jimjim, you don't need to justify owning a 4x4 to these losers. You can spend your hard earned dollars on what ever the hell you like. Dead beats like Phurbal will never get it. Just as well they never amount to anything otherwise NZ would be in worse shape than it already is.

[Clockwork]

True clockwork: If it has a purpose, fine. You're not really telling me that the myriad of new, expensive Remmers tractors I see in town are all used as designed?? I'd be willing to bet that most of the drivers of school-run urban assault vehicles DON'T come from single-vehicle families...


And may be the smaller more economical car was used for the commute into town leaving the weekend/family car for the partner to run the kids around in.

And what exactly are these "Remmers tractors" designed for? Again I'ld point out that the U is for utility.

[Phurrball]

Oh sorry Finn, I've seen the light now, and I wanna be just like you...:love:

Then I could make sweeping generalisations, personal attacks, and write off other's views as jealousy. Yay! The only reason I'm getting an LLB, after all, is so I can own the biggest, nastiest, most phallic of SUVs just to show the world how much of a man I am:sunny:

*Tui ad*

Res ipsa loquitur

You've done my work for me here Finn old chum:sunny:

*yawn* Still kinda keen to know what a 'Penus' is??

[Hillbilly]

What I hate about SUV's is the drivers all behave as if they're driving one of those black FBI SUV's in a convoy as seen on many movies - "True Lies" for example. On the F3 and Pacific Highway here in NSW they're worse than the truck drivers. The real tradgedy is the silly women who "have to have one because Lucy's got one". How any times do we read/hear accident reports where some mother in an SUV has accidentally reversed over here child! Why? Because they couldn't see them.

I've got an old XC Falcon, and a woman in a SUV came up the outside (slow) lane to overtake me. When she ran out of room, she pushed me into the lane of oncoming traffic. This was going up a hill at 120km/hr and we were at the crest, which then has a blind right hand corner. The only reason you're reading this is because there was nothing coming the other way! So she dissappeared into the distance at 140km/hr+. Now get this, I drive up to the lights at Cessnock in the Hunter valley, and guess who I pull up behind. :angry2:

You don't need SUV's to tow boats/trailers/caravans either. What about a station wagon? They've been used for many decades long before the current SUV craze. The Sydney City Council are considering banning the SUV-type vehicles from city streets.

[avgas]

Old news really, everyone knew it.
I have a middle finger for people who believe it. I dont do front wheel power - its too slow. RWD or go home for me....bikes, cars fuck even my dog leaps with the back legs instead off some pathetic pawing attempt at the front.
4wd/fwd......what ever if you put power on brakes what do you expect.

[JimO]

What I hate about SUV's is the drivers all behave as if they're driving one of those black FBI SUV's in a convoy as seen on many movies - "True Lies" for example. On the F3 and Pacific Highway here in NSW they're worse than the truck drivers. The real tradgedy is the silly women who "have to have one because Lucy's got one". How any times do we read/hear accident reports where some mother in an SUV has accidentally reversed over here child! Why? Because they couldn't see them.

I've got an old XC Falcon, and a woman in a SUV came up the outside (slow) lane to overtake me. When she ran out of room, she pushed me into the lane of oncoming traffic. This was going up a hill at 120km/hr and we were at the crest, which then has a blind right hand corner. The only reason you're reading this is because there was nothing coming the other way! So she dissappeared into the distance at 140km/hr+. Now get this, I drive up to the lights at Cessnock in the Hunter valley, and guess who I pull up behind. :angry2:

You don't need SUV's to tow boats/trailers/caravans either. What about a station wagon? They've been used for many decades long before the current SUV craze. The Sydney City Council are considering banning the SUV-type vehicles from city streets.

and many years ago you could all jam in the back we need a 6 seater at least and im not putting my kids in those stupid rear facing seats that people retro fit into wagons you have your opinion i have mine, the problem is bad drivers not what they are driving

[Clockwork]

The Sydney City Council are considering banning the SUV-type vehicles from city streets.

The Sydney City council is only pandering to the sort of anti SUV bigotry on display here on this thread. In a city full of buses, trucks and vans you'll never make a reasoned agument that SUV's should be excluded because of the road space they take up!

[McJim]

The thing I like about SUVs is they're like crayfish - hard on the outside but the insides are generally really soft. I just keep following them after they've cut me up - they have to stop sometime - then you can deal with the soft bits inside - eeeeasy!

[spookytooth]

If what other ppl drive is someones biggest worry then i envey them.I have far more important shit to worry about.Like if i should empty the asshtray befor or after i have another ciggy

[Phurrball]

The Sydney City council is only pandering to the sort of anti SUV bigotry on display here on this thread. In a city full of buses, trucks and vans you'll never make a reasoned agument that SUV's should be excluded because of the road space they take up!

That's not the argument that's trying to be made. You need a special class of licence for a bus (though you'd hardly know it sometimes!!!), and I hardly see the bling van becoming the accessory Du jour in the leafier suburbs. The argument is a utilitarian one - greatest good for the greatest number.

The problem is the magnification of poor driving skills that is caused by 4x4s. I'd be pretty happy to come across anyone in this forum (even Finn:love: ) in a 4x4, as they're all motorcyle aware. Bikers would not be the ones halfway across the centreline in a 4x4 round blind corners in the twisty bits near my home - at least if the offenders were in a car, they'd be a little less over the centreline, and a little less cocksure.

Any poor driving is bad, but poor driving in a city is exacerbated by the very things that make 4x4s useful elsewhere - size, mass, poor handling, height etc

Seriously, read the book I suggest - it's actually interesting, and makes a good case for the larger and larger trend being driven by marketeers exploiting loopholes in US fedaral law. That's the true reason you can buy a bling yank uber-urban-assault vehicle. They're not marketed as working trucks, and the manufacturers love the ladder chassis base, as it's easy to platform share...

Anyhoo - that's enough of this...for now.:scooter: I gotta get me back to the North Island today...:done:

[Finn]

The only reason I'm getting an LLB, after all, is so I can own the biggest, nastiest, most phallic of SUVs just to show the world how much of a man I am:sunny:

Thank you for clarifying that you are indeed a jealous loser. Not all of us aspire to have long hair, smelly clothes, dirty dumb kids, live in squallier, eat vegetables and live off the government like you.

Get a job loser.

[Clockwork]

That's not the argument that's trying to be made. You need a special class of licence for a bus (though you'd hardly know it sometimes!!!), and I hardly see the bling van becoming the accessory Du jour in the leafier suburbs. The argument is a utilitarian one - greatest good for the greatest number.....

Hey, why stop there, how about a special license to drive vans and people movers in cities too... after all, these vehicles suffer the same hight and handling problems.

No, on the whole I think its just down to petty mindedness. "We've seen off the smokers and the dog owners, those SUV owners are a pain in the bum!! and after then those bastard motorcylists..... continually speeding and queue jumping." After all, the majority is alway right in a democracy.

[Motu]

Any poor driving is bad, but poor driving in a city is exacerbated by the very things that make 4x4s useful elsewhere - size, mass, poor handling, height etc

the manufacturers love the ladder chassis base, as it's easy to platform share...

that's enough of this...:

So you want to make another licence for 4x4 drivers - oh great,there will need to be consultants,and whole new department set up....There is probably a thread somewhere where you are complaining about the Labour Government,but really you want to work for them.

I don't see any problem about 4x4 handing - the problem is the people expect them not to handle like a 4x4.

Modern SUV's....and that's what you are talking about here....don't have a chassis anymore.

Yes,that's quite enough on this subject from you,just quietly close the door....we can carry on without you.

[avgas]

Hey, why stop there, how about a special license to drive vans and people movers in cities too... after all, these vehicles suffer the same hight and handling problems.
Actually no. Talk to someone who has driven a lot of vehicles rather than running off on half arsed assumptions. Or at least look at the suspension and wheelbase of such vehicles.
cos what you are talking right now is BS

[Phurrball]

I don't see any problem about 4x4 handing - the problem is the people expect them not to handle like a 4x4. Exactly - they make muppetiness worse. Nowhere do I advocate a special licence.



Modern SUV's....and that's what you are talking about here....don't have a chassis anymore. Talking specifically re 'Full-size' American SUVs as sourced in the book I quoted. I know most don't now.



Yes,that's quite enough on this subject from you,just quietly close the door....we can carry on without you.

Cheers. If you can find me bleating about the Labour gov't in any terms stronger than 'lesser of 2 evils' I owe you a beer Motu :sunny:

And Finn -
Thank you for clarifying ... learn to read. I see comprehension isn't your strongest point. If I ever meet ya, I'll buy you a beer, then we can argue IRL...the world is a boring place without argument. :scooter:

[limbimtimwim]

I party when I see images like the attached.

I totally agree with the comment that SUVs magnify poor driving. If an SUV driver is rude and parks bad, it's a bigger problem. If a SUV driver drives slow, it's a bigger problem because you can't see through (In a car)/ over (On a bike) them.

But they make bigger fireballs, so I don't think we should ban 'em, just torch 'em for fun.

[Guitana]

Well the only problem I see with SUV's & 4WD's is the people that drive them, you know the middle class mum in the Toyota Landcruiser picking the kiddies up from school.That was a sight regularly seen in the country where i grew up(mostly Hiluxes, but these woman could drive!!!) but in the city and suburbs why do they need them?
I suppose it's the fashion, it's true they don't handle like your average car they are heavier and take longer to stop in an emergency braking situation so why would Joe middle class buy one for his family? Well they probably see it as a safer vehicle the bigger the better, cars and motorbikes will just bounce off the front bullbars.No more trips to the panel beaters coz wifey keeps clipping the bollards at the local mall etc etc.
The people driving these vehicles treat them like a car and thats where the problem lies.Most of them have probably never even been used in 4wd offroad.
I own one and treat it with the respect it deserves it dose'nt go over 100kmh
and is always driven to the road conditions!
Buy a Toyota Camry if you want to drop the kids at school and need a bit of space in the boot!!!!

[Clockwork]

Actually no. Talk to someone who has driven a lot of vehicles rather than running off on half arsed assumptions. Or at least look at the suspension and wheelbase of such vehicles.
cos what you are talking right now is BS

Talk to me about half arsed assumptions!... you know nothing about what experence I have in driving any vehicle.

[Finn]

If an SUV driver is rude and parks bad, it's a bigger problem.

Talking about rude parking, I was near the University the other day and this bloody student parked their scooter under my SUV.

Inconsiderate shits.

[Finn]

Well the only problem I see with SUV's & 4WD's is the people that drive them, you know the middle class mum in the Toyota Landcruiser picking the kiddies up from school.That was a sight regularly seen in the country where i grew up(mostly Hiluxes, but these woman could drive!!!) but in the city and suburbs why do they need them?
I suppose it's the fashion, it's true they don't handle like your average car they are heavier and take longer to stop in an emergency braking situation so why would Joe middle class buy one for his family? Well they probably see it as a safer vehicle the bigger the better, cars and motorbikes will just bounce off the front bullbars.No more trips to the panel beaters coz wifey keeps clipping the bollards at the local mall etc etc.
The people driving these vehicles treat them like a car and thats where the problem lies.Most of them have probably never even been used in 4wd offroad.
I own one and treat it with the respect it deserves it dose'nt go over 100kmh
and is always driven to the road conditions!
Buy a Toyota Camry if you want to drop the kids at school and need a bit of space in the boot!!!!

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: It's not fair, I want one too!!! :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

[Guitana]

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: It's not fair, I want one too!!! :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

It's yours for 7k I want to buy a new bike!!!

[Ixion]

If there were no SUVs the people currently driving badly in them would drive equally badly in something else.

BTW what ever is the point of a 4x4 without a separate chassis? It's sort of the whole point of the vehicle. What happens the first time you hit a tree? I shall have to watch out for that if I ever replace the Pajero.

[Bangbug]

And you'll be pleased to know that I'm buying a Dodge RAM 2500 for a new venture. I'm really looking forward to pissing people off in it too. I can just see it now...

GF: "Hey big boy, what's that on the grill?"
Finn: "Oh, looks like a scooter with bits of student"
GF: "Oh no!"
Finn: "Don't worry dollface, it'll buff out"


Never thought Finn would need a penis extension.
Just stuff a sock down ur pants, its cheaper.

[Laava]

The solution is quite simple really. If all the whiney greeny hybrid drivers want to take bigger vehicles off the road, [trucks, Maui's CRV's RAV 4's incl. What about 4WD cars?] they need to get into power, have a referendum, vote and then if they're successful, all those who voted in favour get to compensate all those affected. Agreed? Didn't think so! It would be easier on the other hand to legislate against boy racers cars that have been dangerously chopped and waking people up with their hideous noise at 3am in Morningside[You know who you are rotary boy!]. Yay! A new crusade people!

[James Deuce]

Hybrid's are less fuel efficient than SUVs. If you want a fuel efficient vehicle buy a 1.4 litre diesel VW Polo. It does 70mpg on the motorway and 50 around town and it doesn't look like a shoe.

[limbimtimwim]

Hybrid's are less fuel efficient than SUVs. If you want a fuel efficient vehicle buy a 1.4 litre diesel VW Polo. It does 70mpg on the motorway and 50 around town and it doesn't look like a shoe.
Less fuel efficient that SUVs.. Come jim. Less fuel efficient than an efficient car of the same size more like it.

[James Deuce]

Nope. Top Gear did the figures and a diesel SUV is more fuel efficient than a Prius. They were getting 13mpg around town in the Prius at one point in aggressive stop start traffic, and struggled to do more than 40 mpg on the Motorway. Two little gutless engines do not equal fuel efficiency, especially if you are an even slightly enthusiastic driver.

Build into the equation that the Prius uses more resources to build and is expensive to dispose of "safely" when it becomes an ex-Prius and you have one of the least resource efficient cars-that-look-like-shoes ever made.

A 1972 Toyota Corolla SL coupe will kick a Prius's butt in terms of efficiency and performance. The Prius is a great leap backwards. Just like Public Transport.

[Finn]

Nice work Jim2. Suck on that crybabies.

Hey, there's another thread about the cops using a F250 truck. Shit, they must be good! I've decided to go diesel with my RAM 2500. 6.9 Cummins. With 800+Nm, it's got more pull than Crasherfromwayback.

[jrandom]

The Prius is a great leap backwards.

Finally, some sense. Steve Tyndall drives a Prius, you know. Wanker. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he tooled around in the eco-unfriendly S600 or similar that I'd buy in his position. Pretentious twat.

And has anyone else noticed how current generations of previously competent 4WDs (the Nissans come to mind) are looking all pussyfied and Cayenne-like, and shipping with what look suspiciously like low-profile tyres?

Gimme a Series 70 any day.

Still, I don't understand why people like driving these trucks around town, pussyfied or not. They're slow and they corner like the Empire State Building. If you want a fast family wagon, why buy a Cayenne when you could have an M5?

Heh. M5. Anyone here seen 'Star'?

FWIW, I have a Camry and a Vitara. They're both equally horrible, in their own special cagey ways.

Fossil fuels are bad, so when I'm bored, I like to fill 100-liter drums with petrol, take them up the beach, and shoot them with tracers.

[Phurrball]

FYI - TV3 tonight:

Inside New Zealand: 4WDs: Danger On The Road 8:30pm.

May or may not be worthwhile - seems pertinent to this thread.

[marty]

Still, I don't understand why people like driving these trucks around town, pussyfied or not. They're slow and they corner like the Empire State Building. If you want a fast family wagon, why buy a Cayenne when you could have an M5?

.

can't chuck the border collies in the back of the M5, and it gets stuck on the grass at polo too easily.

i've just bought a toyota echo for commuting to work (6 litres/100km) but i'm fucked if i'd take my family anywhere in it. i'm fucked if i'm getting on the highway in anything that small. the ST-X is for that.

and SUV drivers? what about all those small-dicked HSV/FPV drivers with 300kw on tap?

[Lou Girardin]

Hah, listen to all the SUV owners getting defensive.
Face it guys, evolution is passing you by.

[Motu]

And that's a problem? I am happy to stay as a throw back to the '70's.

[Clockwork]

I think you got your sides mixed up with the evolution argument! :yes:

[Finn]

Face it guys, evolution is passing you by.

That's why we need really tall vehicles to stop our knuckles from dragging on the road.

[Guitana]

and SUV drivers? what about all those small-dicked HSV/FPV drivers with 300kw on tap?[/QUOTE]

Yeah fucken petrol head hoons!!!!!