Firefighters to ram vehicles in way

[Beemer]

Seen on Stuff today - make sure you park off the road!

Fire appliances will ram cars parked in narrow North Shore streets to clear their way in an emergency if necessary, say firefighters.

Shore firefighters are warning some streets are too narrow and would create major problems getting to a fire or accident scene.

Albany station officer Ron Henderson says it's a particular problem in new Albany subdivisions.

"The Fire Service would remove a vehicle forcibly if necessary, if a person's life is in danger," he says.

"Even if the vehicle's legally parked, we will force entry."

Mr Henderson says it's not uncommon for fire engines to have to travel partially along footpaths, and sometimes vehicles have to be moved.

Greenhithe Fire Brigade is particularly concerned about Te Wharau Drive because fire engines can't fit down the residential street when cars are parked along both sides, which they usually are.

Problems also occur in subdivisions around Rosedale and the old Albany Highway, which have been recently developed, Mr Henderson says.

"When they built those subdivisions not much thought went into getting heavy vehicles down the middle," Mr Henderson says.

"The width of roads has definitely decreased."

Devonport firefighter Harry Thompson says cars parking near chicanes at Huia St near King Edward Pde could cause problems.

North Shore City Council transport development manager Kit O'Halloran says the Shore's streets all meet certain standards to allow access by vehicles at all times.

"If the emergency services have any problems I'm certainly not aware of them," Mr O'Halloran says.

"It's absolutely paramount that emergency services have access to our subdivisions."

He says the council would like to hear concerns so yellow lines can be painted to prevent people parking on narrow streets.

[Swoop]

In the words of Al Borland... "I don't think so,Tim!"

[kneescraper]

What bullshit!

[bugjuice]

so firetrucks are gonna have big-ass bull bars on the front, and the drivers' door will show a tally of vehicles taken?
cooooooool

[Ixion]

Very much doubt they would, but if that's what it takes for them to get through, go for it. I have no patience with anyone or anything that impedes the emergency services.

[Beemer]

I wonder why no one has contacted the insurance companies for their response? If the vehicle is parked legally and is not blocking normal traffic flow (ie, not fire trucks), would they be keen to pay out or would they start seeking compo from the fire service?

[Flatcap]

Ramming cars isn't going to get them out of the way. Forward momentum may be hindered slightly as the cars pile up at the front...

[Coyote]

'Not aware' huh? More like neglected the fact when they realised more houses could be fit with smaller roads.

[xwhatsit]

Long ago, in a galaxy far away, I lived in Birkenhead/Northcote sort of area when I was a wee little boy (don't ask my girlfriend whether I still am). Tiny little narrow hilly streets! They've been like that for decades on the Shore. Maybe to do with the hills everywhere? I'm not sure.

It was great fun as a kid, though... rolling little home-built karts made of wood and nails and lawnmower wheels down the twisty hills.

Yeah, nail the bastards. If somebody's life is in danger, surely you wouldn't begrudge a squashed cage or bike -- you'd be compensated, I'm sure.

[Coyote]

And insurance comapnies will raise premiums on cars that are parked on roads too thin for fire engines now, taking, I mean earning more money

[ManDownUnder]

LOL like this is NEWS???

My uncle (Gold Star Volunteer... we're talking 50 years experience here) told me years ago about standard practice for accessing hydrants that cars had parked on top of. Big truck... push car, back up attach hose put fire out.

Those in the service able to confirm or deny?

I have no problem with it personally...

[The Stranger]

Nothing that looks like a quote from a fire fighter indicates the cars would be rammed does it?
Removed forcibly does not necessarily imply ramming.
They could carefully put the truck against it and push, connect a rope and drag a vehicle with the truck, or maybe get out of the machine and lift a car out of the way. There are many ways a car can be forcibly moved that doesn't involve ramming.

[sAsLEX]

Nothing that looks like a quote from a fire fighter indicates the cars would be rammed does it?
Removed forcibly does not necessarily imply ramming.
They could carefully put the truck against it and push, connect a rope and drag a vehicle with the truck, or maybe get out of the machine and lift a car out of the way. There are many ways a car can be forcibly moved that doesn't involve ramming.

You ever heard the saying "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!"?

[Motu]

When I lived in a community with water tanks - if the Fire Service needed more water than the tanker truck,they would plug into the nearest household tank....and they didn't refill it either! I guess if you hated your neighbour you would be pissed off,but most would be happy if their water saved a life,or the house.

There is definatly more roadside parking in Auckland than there used to be,both sides of suburban streets are full of cars these days,10 years ago the would be a handfull.

[imdying]

Nothing that looks like a quote from a fire fighter indicates the cars would be rammed does it?
Removed forcibly does not necessarily imply ramming.

Albany station officer Ron Henderson says "The Fire Service would remove a vehicle forcibly if necessary, if a person's life is in danger,"
If you were allowed to 'remove cars forcibly', and you were in an extreme hurry, and you had an extremely grunty 18 ton fire appliance, wtf would you do?

[Colapop]

Sounds like something out of that firefighting movie... the one with that guy in it and does that chick on the top of the fire engine...

[The Stranger]

If you were allowed to 'remove cars forcibly', and you were in an extreme hurry, and you had an extremely grunty 18 ton fire appliance, wtf would you do?

What would I do?

Would consider the situation first, but ramming would be my last resort.

Ramming, unless you could get a good angle is likely to take longer and achieve less with greater damage, not only to the vehicle, but the fire truck.
If the angle were good, it is probable it didn't need to be rammed anyway.

The other day a car went under a fire truck and lifted the wheels off of the ground. Pretty well fucked the fire truck from moving - and the car of course. Point is, you may have 18 tons, but you can still be stuffed up by 1.5 tons.

[imdying]

I've seen them shunt cars off of hydrants in the commercial district here in Chch, was pretty easy for them :D

Ramming has such vicious connotations... having seen them in action, I'm picking it'll be a move tight up against vehicle, foot down on accelerator. Either way, it'll be all bad for the average plastic car :lol:

[RT527]

I wonder why no one has contacted the insurance companies for their response? If the vehicle is parked legally and is not blocking normal traffic flow (ie, not fire trucks), would they be keen to pay out or would they start seeking compo from the fire service?

Sorry but there is no come back under section 28 of the fire services act...powers of the chief fire officer or for the time being in charge of the brigade an officer or firefighter can be Deemed in charge until relieved.

There are certain powers in there which we may use in an emergency and removing property/people forcibly if interfering in an incident is one of them.

no one likes to see it happen and I remember an incident where a prominent Lawyer parked his car over a hydrant of which we couldn't get our hoses to, so being the entrepreneurs that we are , we ran a percolated(allows water to seep from them to protect the hose in a fire) feeder hose through one window and out the other When he came to get his care it was full of water....he said you cant do that...officer replied , section 28 mate, he turned around and walked away.

[RT527]

Nothing that looks like a quote from a fire fighter indicates the cars would be rammed does it?
Removed forcibly does not necessarily imply ramming.
They could carefully put the truck against it and push, connect a rope and drag a vehicle with the truck, or maybe get out of the machine and lift a car out of the way. There are many ways a car can be forcibly moved that doesn't involve ramming.

And how long is that going to take...too friggan long when a fire doubles in intensity every 60 secs, you dont have time sometimes to be gentle, its like the big master keys we have on the trucks , fits any lock....

[RT527]

If you were allowed to 'remove cars forcibly', and you were in an extreme hurry, and you had an extremely grunty 18 ton fire appliance, wtf would you do?

Only trucks in the fire service anywhere near the 18 tonne mark would be a bronto....turntable ladder or one of the swinglift trucks.

Most city brigade trucks tare in at 8 to 9 tonne ,, add 1350 litres of water and equipment + people and they might be lucky to hit 13 tonne all up, 14 tonne is the max you can go on 2 axle trucks.

Some of the rural/urban brigades have smaller trucks but 2000 litres of waterand go to maybe 9 -10 tonne max

[Timber020]

We used to move cars parked in the "wrong" place with a couple of trolley jacks. one lifts the front wheels, one lifts the rear wheels and you can just roll the car anywhere you want on the jacks. Firemen will probably do the same thing, if they have time.

[Firefight]

When I lived in a community with water tanks - if the Fire Service needed more water than the tanker truck,they would plug into the nearest household tank....and they didn't refill it either! I guess if you hated your neighbour you would be pissed off,but most would be happy if their water saved a life,or the house.

A normal situation and covereded by section 30 of the Fire service Act

..."subject to the overall requirments of the Regional Controller of Civil Defence blah blah blah.. every fire brigade, defence fire brigade and industrial brigade shall , free of charge.


b) Have the use of all water in any river, creek , stream, water course, channel, lake ,lagoon, well , tank or other soruce of water supply whatsoever for the purpose of extingushing any fire... etc etc.


When we lived in Rodney in the good old days b4 reticulated water it was normal for the local Fire Service to take water from domestic water tanks, I recall that often people would meet the first arriving fire truck and offer the use of their water from the house tanks.

It was normal for the local council (RDC)to pay for the water carriers to refill the tanks after the fire.

[Firefight]

Sorry but there is no come back under section 28 of the fire services act...powers of the chief fire officer or for the time being in charge of the brigade an officer or firefighter can be Deemed in charge until relieved.


As you say section 28 /4 of the Fire service Act gives a wide range of powers to allow Fire crews to do the job they have been called to do, most are specific and detailed for example

28/4 (C) "may take any equipment required to be used into, through, or upon any land, building or structure where he deems it neccesarry for the purposes of carrying out his duties"

Another useful section 28/4(n) "may generally do all other things that are necessary for protecting life or proprty in dealing with the fire or other emergancy".

with regard to Liability,, Section 43 of the Fire service act covers this....

"No action or proceeding shall be bought against the Crown or Commission or employee or against any Fire brigade or member of a fire brigade ......etc etc
blah blah blah.

however there is a small clause in this section that states
" nothing in this section shall relieve any of them against or in any way effect liability for any damage to property caued by or in connection with the use of any fire engine or other fire service vehicle for transport purposes.

This clause is to cover the event of a fire engine involved in a motor vehicle accident either responding to a call or on other fire service business

It could also be used against the driver in the case of damage caused by shuntting as described at the start of this thread, however such a claim is unlikely to be successful.

Hope this is of interst.

F/F

[Firefight]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

[R6_kid]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

you know what everyone is going to do when they get drunk...

[avgas]

Northshore city council are dicks. Their engineers are lazy - they dont even pre-inspect anythings these days.
Worked on a job once where the council engineer said we were to replace a straight pipe. Half way through the job we had to f up the site cos he didn't even look at the drawings and we had hit the middle of the 'Z' pipe.
12 weeks later, $200,000 later - all because a) he didn't look at the council drawings and b) he didn't pre-inspect the job.
Wouldn't surprise me if the new subdivisions have poor roading, poor plumbing etc

[McJim]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

Yep - I've seen this being done on narrow streets in Glasgow - the Strathclyde Fire Brigade are quite accomplished at this. I'm sure the Strathclyde Fire Brigade's Bronto Skylift weighed in at 26 tons though - mind you might be a bigger one since the buldings in glasgow are farken tall)thought the Scania Fire engines were only about 7-8 tons fully laden.

I think forcibly removed probably means bounced around in this instance not rammed by a very expensive piece of fire fighting equipment!

[elle-f]

The problem is is that these cars are parked legally. I guess what they will do is put yellow lines so nobody can park. Thank GOD i don't have to worry about parking anymore! I have no tolerance either for those that park on fire hydrants - if they have to shunt their car out of the way- good on them!

[SwanTiger]

Hey that sounds like a lot of fun, I am joining up with our local volly brigade and there are heaps of wankers around here that park cars down streets and leave little room for anything.

[onearmedbandit]

its like the big master keys we have on the trucks , fits any lock....

Any lock you say...?

[SwanTiger]

I'll be sure to warn Silverdale Fire Brigade of your impending arrival. My best mate is SSO there.
Let's see if they accept me, when I said that I know you they all put their backs to the wall and said "Oh, how well do you know him, are you one of those?".

Nah, 4 just left, Don came over asking if I wanted to join. Said you were a homo and that I shouldn't associate with you :dodge:

[Firefight]

yep and a dammed good bar :drinkup: :drinkup:

Will be up that way this year, my mates the DCFO, and its his gold star piss up ..

F/F

[SwanTiger]

Aha, good ol Don eh. Tell him I said hi. He lives for the fire service, and I'm sure it will be his inevitable downfall.
The person I was referring to is Callan, you will meet him for sure if you join. The other is Andrew (Mt Everisst) you will know why we call him that when you see him. They are a good bunch of guys. Just be sensible, keep your head on in tough situations, and while you are new, keep your mouth closed and ears open. And I hope you can run to the station fast cause their turn out times are better then the perms.
Hey, if Shane can become a fire fighter I think I'll do just fine :shutup: Thanks for the advice.

So how soon do I get to ram cars? ...

[Firefight]

When is that on Dave?? No doubt I will be going. You talking about Phil?


No, have sent pm.



F/F

[RT527]

Any lock you say...?

Bolt cutters and an Axe...works every time...Oh and Lucas cutters and spreaders for cars.....

[onearmedbandit]

lol, thought as much!

[TonyB]

Given that there are a LOT of large 4WDs like Landcruisers around, and given that many people have no idea how narrow a space their vehicle can actually fit through, then I'm surprised that there haven't already been complaints from 4WD owners living and or driving on these narrow streets. If the gaps are so narrow that a truck actually can't get through, then many drivers of larger vehicles will be too scared to drive through. Just a thought.

Anybody that doesn't think that emergency services have a right to get to a life and death emergency as quickly as possible needs a fucken good slap around the ears.

[Lou Girardin]

The Fire Service has always been prepared to move vehicles anyway they can. Lives are more important than sheetmetal.

[Patrick]

And how long is that going to take...too friggan long when a fire doubles in intensity every 60 secs, you dont have time sometimes to be gentle, its like the big master keys we have on the trucks , fits any lock....

Gotta love those 18lb door keys... we got em too!!!

[Patrick]

Yep, love it when the pager says "Permission to effect entry if required"

Nice! Gotta laugh at the calls we get about Ambos responding to a situation, can't get in, doors locked... they gotta call us to get in...:gob:

You guys have power of entry yet????

[mstriumph]

The Fire Service has always been prepared to move vehicles anyway they can. Lives are more important than sheetmetal.

i was a volunteer bushie for a coupla years - fences? no problem .... padlocks? no sweat ......pair of boltcutters does it every time ..........

NEITHER WIND NOR RAIN NOR SLEET NOR HAIL ... and suchlike :sunny:

[Patrick]

Taranaki DHB have their own Ambulance Service,
As for us, we never get Police to effect entry, we will do it ourselves.

You guys call us for anything and everything though it seems now. In all seriousness is there a new(ish) policy for Police to call Ambos to every job that has a slight injury. For example went to a 1D last night and the police wanted us to look at the male who had a cut on his thumb from the broken window????

Used to be that way in Auckland, struck it recently here in the Naki... Naki crews do the same now...

Haven't heard of that "policy"... what a waste of a valuable and important resource!!!

[Toaster]

Sounds like hot air and frustration - they would be on shaky ground 'ramming' cars out of the way. It would be a tad illegal. I'd love to see the cops handle that one!

[Toaster]

Man, when I was in the job, I loved forcing entry.

[The_Dover]

Man, when I was in the job, I loved forcing entry.

Is that you Clint? Brad? Bob?

[Toaster]

Is that you Clint? Brad? Bob?

I'm rolling around in laughter... nice!

[RT527]

Hahaha just thought of a cool idea, how about a rapidly inflated airbag under one side of the car....would flip it neatly on its side lol

[SwanTiger]

Hahaha just thought of a cool idea, how about a rapidly inflated airbag under one side of the car....would flip it neatly on its side lol
That would take too long!

There is a school at the bottom of our street and all the dumb fucktard parents decide to park on both sides of the road, creating a one lane road, then congest it by failing to apply road rules (vehicle coming down hill stops and gives way to the vehicle coming up hill).

:mad: :angry2: :brick:

[The Pastor]

Thats why cars should come standerd with missile launchers.

[jetboy]

Hey that sounds like a lot of fun, I am joining up with our local volly brigade and there are heaps of wankers around here that park cars down streets and leave little room for anything.
Yeah its great fun! I just joined as a Volly too!

[kro]

I would have thought some people on KB would like being rammed by a Fireman.

[Lias]

I would have thought some people on KB would like being rammed by a Fireman.

Bling duly awarded for nearly making me spray fanta out my nose and all over my keyboard.. nearly...

[RT527]

I would have thought some people on KB would like being rammed by a Fireman.

Nah they all over at Patricks place watching some Reels:yes: :dodge: