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Ms Piggy
4th August 2004, 18:14
Hi Guys & Gals,
I don't lane split cos I'm not quite sure what the 'protocol' is or how to do it safely.

Apologies in advance if this topic has been discussed before.

Two Smoker
4th August 2004, 18:34
Whats the rule with passing on the left, you can only do it when a vehicle is turning right or is stationary, therefore at t he traffic lights the vehicles are stationary and the bike can go up the middle :niceone: same applies on the motorway, traffic stopped, middle you go......but as soon as the traffic is doing 5kmh its ticket time...

sAsLEX
4th August 2004, 20:06
you can pass on the right though as long as you stay within the same lane

FROSTY
4th August 2004, 20:20
Legally speaking you can't lane split. In a thread ages ago the legal stuff was explained to us by I think one of the legal begal types.

jrandom
4th August 2004, 20:21
'Go nuts, but not in the vicinity of Plod' is my personal rule. Worked well for a couple of years so far. You can spot the patrol cars a mile off in heavy traffic, and worst case, even if you miss 'em and blow past, what are they going to do? Sprout wings to catch you?

Be VERY aware of the white ST1100s, though. Any time you see a white helmet and/or flouro vest bobbing around in the traffic ahead, assume it's out to give you a ticket until proven otherwise.

But if you prefer a little less 'excitement', then only passing on the right of another vehicle within a lane and indicating correctly to pull out and in during passes and during any lane changes will keep your nose clean.

mattt
4th August 2004, 20:29
Fuck that - you ride a bike to get places faster - free parking cos Auckland is a traffic nightmare, and for the freedom of it.
Lanesplitting is like speeding - Totally legal and safe to do so untill you get caught, officer.
But like speeding, you only lane split to your riding capabilities. ie - if you're a newbie to riding, you wouldn't take 55k corners at 180k's like MR can, so you only take the wide open gaps that you feel safe with. When you get more confident (cocky, crazy, suicidal) then you start hitting your wingmirrors with cages wing mirrors, like on the way home from the plane-station after work, and stuff.
Just my .02 :blah:

dangerous
4th August 2004, 21:23
But like speeding, you only lane split to your riding capabilities. ie - if you're a newbie to riding, you wouldn't take 55k corners at 180k's so you only take the wide open gaps that you feel safe with. When you get more confident (cocky, crazy, suicidal) then you start hitting your wingmirrors with cages wing mirrors

very well put,
I dont know what the traffic is like up your way CSL but here it isent worth risking ya life and nice bike for (I understand that the Auckers amongest us do however need to split) as a wait in traffic isent all that long here.
I dont mean to be persumpsoius (*sp I think, big word for me) or bossy but I wouldent reconmend doing it for someone in your position (newish rider) 21 non stop years riding for me, and I still dont like doing it :o

jrandom
4th August 2004, 21:34
very well put,
I dont know what the traffic is like up your way CSL but here it isent worth risking ya life and nice bike for (I understand that the Auckers amongest us do however need to split) as a wait in traffic isent all that long here.
I dont mean to be persumpsoius (*sp I think, big word for me) or bossy but I wouldent reconmend doing it for someone in your position (newish rider) 21 non stop years riding for me, and I still dont like doing it :o

Yup. Based on comments from mates working in Christchurch at the moment, it doesn't sound like there's much point in filtering there.

We've been over the subject ad nauseum on the forum before, of course; I do it because it turns a potential 2-hour-each-way commute (I know this because it's taken that long in a cage on occasion) into a reliably sub-30-minute-each-way commute.

Best advice is, don't do anything that makes you pucker. If you know what I mean. Err on the safe side. If a gap needs to be taken, your brain and neuromotor units are on fire and the cages are sitting there like slow-mo lumps in a molasses pudding, shoot through and give praise to the heathen gods of two-wheeled transportation. If it feels scary, sit tight and think happy thoughts.

Better late than dead on time, and losing the plot or exceeding your bike's abilities when filtering is a good way to end up in the latter category.

Bob
4th August 2004, 22:20
Best advice is, don't do anything that makes you pucker. If you know what I mean. Err on the safe side. If a gap needs to be taken, your brain and neuromotor units are on fire and the cages are sitting there like slow-mo lumps in a molasses pudding, shoot through and give praise to the heathen gods of two-wheeled transportation. If it feels scary, sit tight and think happy thoughts.

Better late than dead on time, and losing the plot or exceeding your bike's abilities when filtering is a good way to end up in the latter category.

Sounds about right to me - over in Britain, lane splitting (or 'filtering' as we call it) is 100% legal, but if you're being reckless, the police might pull you for undertaking.

But I'm still very cautious about my filtering - and I've been riding for over a decade. If my 'comfort meter' feels like it is twanging into the red zone, then I sit backl and admire the scenery!

I also, as a rule of thumb, only do about 10mph more than the traffic - if the gap is wide (and I mean wide) I'll up the pace a little more.

One thing I would say, if you are splitting/filtering and someone is coming up behind you, don't let them pressure you into going faster, but DO move over as soon as you can do so safely and let them through. I do this all the time (I'm not proud - I know lots of people will split/filter faster than me) and usually get a wave of thanks as they go past.

speedpro
4th August 2004, 22:27
You can spot the patrol cars a mile off in heavy traffic, and worst case, even if you miss 'em and blow past, what are they going to do? Sprout wings to catch you?

Be VERY aware of the white ST1100s, though. Any time you see a white helmet and/or flouro vest bobbing around in the traffic ahead, assume it's out to give you a ticket until proven otherwise.

EVERY cop I have spoken to except the twit that wrote me a ticket has said the same thing, basically they can't be bothered with such a piddly offence, and they spend lots of time in traffic and know what it's like. At various times I have rung a couple of the stations and spoken to various officers and whether they ride a bike or drive the car they all say the same thing. It's pathetic and we all agree except one officer as far as I can tell.

I'm posting the letter tomorrow pleading my case, complete with photos of traffic and copies of the regulations. Fat chance I reckon.

Velox
4th August 2004, 22:38
Hey - I was wondering about the legal side of passing on double yellows though. Is it ok if you're still on your side of the lines? I'm pretty sure it's no passing the line rather than no passing the cars eh?

wkid_one
4th August 2004, 23:22
Hey - I was wondering about the legal side of passing on double yellows though. Is it ok if you're still on your side of the lines? I'm pretty sure it's no passing the line rather than no passing the cars eh?
Contrary to popular belief - these are NOT no passing lines - they are NO CROSSING LINES. You aren't allowed to cross the yellow lines in any circumstances - passing or otherwise (including cornering) else you will get a ticket!

loosebruce
5th August 2004, 00:12
It's all a comfort thing, my flat mate was scared shitless of splitting, the more and more he rode to work, everynow and then a biker would pass him so he'd pull out an follow, that got his confidence up and he went from there. There's a line to be crossed for sure, as far as the police go, if your're putting by 10-15kph quicker than the traffic and you got a bit of room etc, they won't bother, but then again if traffic is pretty steady on 80kph+ and you're splitting then, they have an issue with that. Never been caught lane splitting (mainly coz i never stopped) even with red n blues they can only go so fas, and the dip shits up here in cars arent all that switched on, so they don't move outta there way in a hurry. But i'd like to know what the fine would be, is it a drving charge like careless or reckless.
But yea whatever your're comfortable with..............

bgd
5th August 2004, 00:38
For what it's worth I try to follow the 20/40 approach. No more than 20mph faster than surrounding traffic and no faster than 40mph. If I can do the speed limit then I move move back into the traffic.

wkid_one
5th August 2004, 00:38
Ditto - I never bothered worrying when I was lane splitting either - Welly cops don't seem as focused on it. Provided you aren't splitting like an idiot I don't think you have much of a problem. It is the idiots who swerve in and out of traffic that is happily travelling at 80kph+ that piss me off.

Drunken Monkey
5th August 2004, 07:52
Legally speaking you can't lane split. In a thread ages ago the legal stuff was explained to us by I think one of the legal begal types.

Well they're wrong, it isn't illegal. Even after I pointed out the specific pages in the Rode Code for Motorcyclists which described how one could do so legally, people still have this strange habit of posting statements like 'lane splitting is illegal'. As the rode code has been superceeded twice in recent times, the pages are probably no longer 67 - 68, but I'm sure someone can look it up again.

In just two posts above (2 smoker and salex) we have seen how you can pass -legally- on both sides of a vehicle. ***If this isn't lane splitting, what is?*** We've also seen at times (especially recently) that the people responsible for upholding the law, don't necessarily know the law.

Ms Piggy
5th August 2004, 08:28
Thanks for the info & advice guys. It's not somnething I'll have to do a lot b/c city traffic isn't too bad most of the time but sometimes it would be handy. I'll be careful & sensible about it though...don't wanna give us bikers a bad rep! :cool:

vifferman
5th August 2004, 08:52
Provided you aren't splitting like an idiot I don't think you have much of a problem. It is the idiots who swerve in and out of traffic that is happily travelling at 80kph+ that piss me off.... and make the rest of us look bad.
I rarely lane-split, because I don't need to, but when I have my experiences have generally been good. Contrary to the warnings I've had from workmates, I've never had anyone sitting in a car get pissed off with me and try to block me. In fact, I've had lots of incidents of people moving over to let me through.

I have been pulled up twice - once for passing both lanes of traffic and going down the other side of the road. The cop (standing on the side of the road) who pulled me over basically said I hadn't indicated my manoeuvre. The other time was a cop on an ST1100, who went completely off his nut at me and abused me and the other two bikers who were carefully filtering to the front of stopped traffic for "giving other motorcyclists a bad name" and for "riding like an idiot instead of a proper motorcyclist". I'm still waiting for someone to explain that to me...

I used to lane-split and filter more than I do now, as I've found it makes stuff all difference to my travel times while markedly increasing the risk. What does make a difference is taking a route which is longer, more interesting and involves very little traffic (stopped or otherwise) and effectively shorter time-wise.

Posh Tourer :P
5th August 2004, 09:46
I'm going to be blatantly honest here, and say if there's a gap, I've started splitting at lights even when there's only one car in each lane. What can I say?? I'm a freedom/acceleration junkie, tho I can't be that heavily addicted what with riding a BM and all... I think I just like the freedom thing of an open road in front of me.

I almost always split up to lights unless the gap is really tight / there is no chance of accelerating away from the lights much. I did my first bit of motorway splitting yesterday, made sure that I was not splitting when there was a gap that someone might have swerved into, and not much faster than surrounding traffic. Also stopped when I saw HP until I was out of sight/reach again. Both left and right of lanes, just whereever there was the biggest gap really. Can't see much difference if I was in the left of one lane or the right of the other, if it's a gap it's a gap. Strange though that most Akl drivers like to be slightly further to the right of their lanes, and leave a big gap on the left. Perhaps they just dont know where the edges of their cars are...

riffer
5th August 2004, 10:34
I have at time been a shocking lane splitter.

I've tempered it a bit lately, particularly as my bin was a result of lane splitting as I was rushing to get to a meeting at work. Technically I wasn't lane splitting when I dropped the bike, but hey, lets not split hairs or anything.

Since I got back on the bike, I've found the pucker factor a bit easier to reach, although that is tending to ease off a bit now.

I find that in rain there seems to be a lot more "only drive in the rain" types, who don't know what to do when a bike comes past.

But mostly the Wellington traffic is good and people will pull over in their lane to allow you safe passage. For those that refuse to, a quick boot to the door, or swipe of their mirror usually wakes them up!

I commute either between Upper Hutt & Wellington (Hutt Motorway SH2) or Upper Hutt & Tawa (Haywards Hill, SH1) and find the Hutt Motorway traffic worse. There is a patch between Melling and Korokoro, where the traffic stands still. Even the police split through there. I have only had one car try and take me out on that patch of road (A Pajero, would you believe it?) and the idiot did it while I was splitting with a Police ST1100 behind me splitting as well. Hope he got a big ticket.

So, to kind of repeat what everyone has said, be sensible with your splitting and the cops will GENERALLY turn a blind eye. Remember, there is always some damn fool who will try and pull into your lane without indicating or looking, and unless you are able to stop in a hurry you will quite likely grab a handfull of front brake and drop the bike. I know, I've done it. No less than 5 cars pulled out in front of me without looking this morning. Thank goodness I'm still paranoid.

wkid_one
5th August 2004, 10:45
Well they're wrong, it isn't illegal. Even after I pointed out the specific pages in the Rode Code for Motorcyclists which described how one could do so legally, people still have this strange habit of posting statements like 'lane splitting is illegal'. As the rode code has been superceeded twice in recent times, the pages are probably no longer 67 - 68, but I'm sure someone can look it up again.

In just two posts above (2 smoker and salex) we have seen how you can pass -legally- on both sides of a vehicle. ***If this isn't lane splitting, what is?*** We've also seen at times (especially recently) that the people responsible for upholding the law, don't necessarily know the law.
Here is where you are wrong...

It is illegal to pass on the left unless the vehicle is stationary or turning right or there is a spare lane on the inside to do so.

To occupy the same lane as a moving vehicle is a violation of the Traffic Act.

I have posted the legalities of lane splitting and fucked if I am doing it again.

Essentially TS is right - you can only LEGALLY pass on the left if all the traffic you are passing are stationary or turning right.

Good luck with your logic DM - but failing to only lane split when traffic is stationary and being pulled by a cop - I don't think you would win the argument.

That is the law in black and white!

Drunken Monkey
5th August 2004, 16:50
Well I never specifically said you could pass on the left of a moving car. Isn't it still 'lane splitting' if you're moving up through stationary cars at the traffic lights? And as re-iterated above - one can pass legally on the right, as long as they don't cross the centre line - is that not lane splitting also.

Perhaps my understanding of the term 'lane splitting' is wrong then. But it seems to me that it's perfectly legal to pass on the left of stationary cars at the traffic lights and on the right when ever you have room - I would personally call that lane splitting. Others may have different ideas.

I did a quick serach through the old forums, but couldn't find your post... Did it specifically forbid with the terms 'lane splitting' or 'filtering'?
I could only describe my search of the Land Transport Act 'inconclusive'.

Oh well, don't waste your time on my behalf. I generally don't filter anyway, as I don't spend much time in traffic. Those times I have, cops never turned their head. Granted, I have heard of people being ticketed for it also. A customer of mine got a lecture from a cop who insisted he pass on the LEFT in future - said customer got back on his motorbike a small fine poorer and a tad more confused...

FROSTY
5th August 2004, 17:40
Celtic -all the debate aside. My opinion -YOU shouldn't lane split at this stage of your riding experience.
just reading a couple of your posts on other threads tells me your reaction to an -"oh Shit' situation might not yet be the best one.
an example-I was lane splitting at a set of traffic lights and the passenger in one of the stopped cars opened their door and hopped out. I stopped just in time.
Another--and very common-I was on the motorway -splitting lanes again and a guy in the fast lane spotted a gap in the middle lane and launched himself into it.--He had no reason to think a bike would be there.

wkid_one
5th August 2004, 17:52
They don't have too specify it as there are enough individual infringements to deal with it - illegal lane change, failing to indicate, following to close, reckless driving.

Lane Splitting is a term we as a fraternity use. Law's relate to passing on the left. I will find it as it will only take 2 mins

You can only pass on the left when:

<DL><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line, and you are able to pass safely by using the left-hand lane (ie not occupy the same lane!)<DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif you are directed to by a police officer <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif the vehicle you are passing: <DL class=indented><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif has stopped, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is signalling a right turn, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is turning right </DT></DL></DT></DL>At all other times you must pass on the right.

PS - you are also not allowed to use the flush median to pass either!
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/no-pass-median.jpg
Some more for you
TRAFFIC REGULATIONS 1976 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={B1293DC4}&softpage=DOC)
PART 2 - DRIVING RULES (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={7BCFE697}&softpage=DOC)
5. Driving in lanes—
(2)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifNo driver shall drive, either wholly or partly, in any lane that is not available to him
(ie - you can't occupy a lane with another vehicle)



Passing on the right is considered just that - passing! Provided you either don't cross the yellow line, or pass safely on a white - this is passing - not lane splitting.

You can only lane split/filter (Ie ride between traffic) when the traffic is stationary or turning right. Under no circumstances can you ride in the break down lane.

When traffic is moving this is a whole different ball game. I am not saying I didn't and won't do it (bloody oathe I will) - I am just saying you can be ticketed under present traffic law for doing it.

OZ apparently DOES have specific motorcycle focused filtering laws -which we will no doubt adopt.

dangerous
5th August 2004, 18:44
Celtic -all the debate aside. My opinion -YOU shouldn't lane split at this stage of your riding experience.


an example-I was lane splitting at a set of traffic lights and the passenger in one of the stopped cars opened their door and hopped out. I stopped just in time.
Another--and very common-I was on the motorway -splitting lanes again and a guy in the fast lane spotted a gap in the middle lane and launched himself into it.--He had no reason to think a bike would be there.
I agree with the above, You can count on one hand the amount of times I have split. The last time I split I was delivering a new Hayabusa to a mate, the traffic had come to a stop. Bugger it I wanted to keep riding this nice bike so I decided to split between the staionary traffic cue I was in and the parked cars. What I dident see was a lady running across the rd and in frount of the 4x4 I was passing she dident see me and by the time I saw her the rear wheel of the bussa was about 2 foot of the rd and the lady triped on the frount wheel falling over.
Now I felt like a prize wank cos of what I was doing even though it was a leagle manover....... people just dont expect bikes to be in the places that we can get them and doing the things that we can...... be very cearfull.

Things I learnt: people dont think
spliting is dangerous
Bussa's do good stoppies

bgd
5th August 2004, 20:23
...people just dont expect bikes to be in the places that we can get them and doing the things that we can......

Regardless, people should look where they are going, it's called personal responsibility. It's also common sense.

Lou Girardin
5th August 2004, 20:56
Contrary to popular belief - these are NOT no passing lines - they are NO CROSSING LINES. You aren't allowed to cross the yellow lines in any circumstances - passing or otherwise (including cornering) else you will get a ticket!

Au Contraire, you may not pass a MOVING vehicle. You may cross the lines to pass a stationary vehicle.

Back to the original question, if you don't lane split why bother riding bike?

scumdog
5th August 2004, 21:05
They don't have too specify it as there are enough individual infringements to deal with it - illegal lane change, failing to indicate, following to close, reckless driving.

Lane Splitting is a term we as a fraternity use. Law's relate to passing on the left. I will find it as it will only take 2 mins

You can only pass on the left when:

<DL><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line, and you are able to pass safely by using the left-hand lane (ie not occupy the same lane!)<DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif you are directed to by a police officer <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif the vehicle you are passing: <DL class=indented><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif has stopped, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is signalling a right turn, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is turning right </DT></DL></DT></DL>At all other times you must pass on the right.

PS - you are also not allowed to use the flush median to pass either!
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/no-pass-median.jpg
Some more for you
TRAFFIC REGULATIONS 1976 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={B1293DC4}&softpage=DOC)
PART 2 - DRIVING RULES (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={7BCFE697}&softpage=DOC)
5. Driving in lanes—
(2)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifNo driver shall drive, either wholly or partly, in any lane that is not available to him
(ie - you can't occupy a lane with another vehicle)



Passing on the right is considered just that - passing! Provided you either don't cross the yellow line, or pass safely on a white - this is passing - not lane splitting.

You can only lane split/filter (Ie ride between traffic) when the traffic is stationary or turning right. Under no circumstances can you ride in the break down lane.

When traffic is moving this is a whole different ball game. I am not saying I didn't and won't do it (bloody oathe I will) - I am just saying you can be ticketed under present traffic law for doing it.

OZ apparently DOES have specific motorcycle focused filtering laws -which we will no doubt adopt.

You CAN pass on the flush median on a 100kph are though.

dangerous
5th August 2004, 21:23
Au Contraire, you may not pass a MOVING vehicle. You may cross the lines to pass a stationary vehicle.

Back to the original question, if you don't lane split why bother riding bike?
SAY WHAT..... are you telling me that you CAN pass or cross the yellow lines if it is a stationary vechicle???
emmmm I know that it was once your domain but I'm tending to go with W1 on this.

"Back to the original question, if you don't lane split why bother riding bike" thats just the dumbest question :yes:

wkid_one
6th August 2004, 00:33
Au Contraire, you may not pass a MOVING vehicle. You may cross the lines to pass a stationary vehicle. RUBBISH

Back to the original question, if you don't lane split why bother riding bike?Sorry - but you are in fact wrong here Lou - check the LTSA and Traffic Act

You can pass at a no-passing line if:




<DL><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif you stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif the lane is wide enough for two vehicles </DT></DL>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/pass-at-no-passing-a.jpghttp://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/pass-at-no-passing-b.jpg



Sorry Lou - but you CAN pass a moving vehicle provided you don't cross the line

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/key-driving-skills/passing3.html

And re the flush medians - no - at 100kph this isn't acceptable

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/52.html

Don't use flush medians as:

overtaking lanes (except for short distances just before the turn or when preparing to turn right and other traffic is occupying the adjacent lane)
a place to park.
It's an offence to use a flush median to overtake or to park on one.

If you want to argue - I am basing my information on the law as described on here to make sure people get the CORRECT information - rather than common law/beliefs

spudchucka
6th August 2004, 10:23
They don't have too specify it as there are enough individual infringements to deal with it - illegal lane change, failing to indicate, following to close, reckless driving.
Good informative post by you in this thread Wikid. I just have one point to make re the above; Reckless Driving is the most serious of the driving offences and in no way should be bundled together with lane change, following distance and failing to indicate infringements.


35.Contravention of section 7, or section 22 where no injury or death involved—

(1)A person commits an offence if the person—

(a)Operates a motor vehicle recklessly on a road; or

(b)Drives or causes a motor vehicle to be driven on a road at a speed or in a manner which, having regard to all the circumstances, is or might be dangerous to the public or to a person; or

(c)Without reasonable excuse, contravenes section 22 by failing to stop and ascertain whether any person has been injured, after an accident where no other person has been injured or killed.

(2)If a person is convicted of an offence against subsection (1),—

(a)The maximum penalty is imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding $4,500; and

(b)The court must order the person to be disqualified from holding or obtaining a driver licence for 6 months or more.

(3)The imposition of a mandatory disqualification under this section is subject to section 81.

3 months prison / $4500 fine and mandatory 6 months or more disqualification is a tad more serious than a $150 infringement notice.

Posh Tourer :P
6th August 2004, 10:24
Back to the original question, if you don't lane split why bother riding bike?

That thing called fun.... :blank: :doobey:

vifferman
6th August 2004, 10:48
Strange though that most Akl drivers like to be slightly further to the right of their lanes, and leave a big gap on the left. Perhaps they just dont know where the edges of their cars are...I think you're right there, PT.
I've done more 'undertaking' than overtaking in slow-moving/stalled traffic for this very reason, and because the cop who pulled me over (see my previous post) told me to. I asked him specifically about lane-splitting/filtering, and he said that while not legally allowed (essentially somewhat of a grey area in practice, despite Wkid's posting that seem to clearly indicate otherwise), the best option was to go past on the gutter side, and I wouldn't be ticketed, BUT if I had an accident while doing so, I would be. (Of course, he might have had no idea what he was talking about, but rather than admit he was talking out of the wrong hole, just made some stuff up...)
It will be interesting to see what comes of this (i.e., whether specific laws about filtering/lane-splitting are drafted), but I hope that common sense and recognition that safety is the bottom line prevail.

wkid_one
6th August 2004, 10:56
Good informative post by you in this thread Wikid. I just have one point to make re the above; Reckless Driving is the most serious of the driving offences and in no way should be bundled together with lane change, following distance and failing to indicate infringements.



3 months prison / $4500 fine and mandatory 6 months or more disqualification is a tad more serious than a $150 infringement notice.Yeah sorry - I got a little carried away there in the interests of making my point.:doh:
I never remember which of the two is more serious - dangerous or reckless

However: despite the legalities - it is still up to the cop to pull you over. I have passed cop cars lane splitting on more than one occasion - the odd time being caugh out by a mufti car in slow moving traffic and have never been nicked. Maybe it is because I wasn't doing it like an idiot - maybe they couldn't be arsed.

All I am doing is conveying the law - it is up to the officer to determine if that applies to the situation.

scumdog
6th August 2004, 11:36
That thing called fun.... :blank: :doobey:

YEAH, 'cos down here we don't got no lanes to split nohow!! :killingme

wkid_one
6th August 2004, 11:38
YEAH, 'cos down here we don't got no lanes to split nohow!! :killingme
Fuck - down there - two cars at a set of lights is a traffic jam!

scumdog
6th August 2004, 11:39
Yeah sorry - I got a little carried away there in the interests of making my point.:doh:
I never remember which of the two is more serious - dangerous or reckless

However: despite the legalities - it is still up to the cop to pull you over. I have passed cop cars lane splitting on more than one occasion - the odd time being caugh out by a mufti car in slow moving traffic and have never been nicked. Maybe it is because I wasn't doing it like an idiot - maybe they couldn't be arsed.

All I am doing is conveying the law - it is up to the officer to determine if that applies to the situation.

Just remember, reckless is dangerous with intent, that should help you to figure which is more serious :niceone:

scumdog
6th August 2004, 11:43
Fuck - down there - two cars at a set of lights is a traffic jam!

Whadya mean "set of lights"? - we don't done got none of them devils devices at any intersections 'round here neither.

A 90 second wait at a stop sign is a big delay in these here parts! :bleh:

jrandom
6th August 2004, 11:48
Just remember, reckless is dangerous with intent

How, precisely, does that work?

Is "ooops!" the general defence to a charge of reckless driving, then?

I suppose 'reckless' would be invoked in cases of intentional ramming of idiots in Starlets who cut you off when you happen to be driving a Landcruiser with bull bars, etc. Not that I know of that ever happening. <_<

wkid_one
6th August 2004, 11:57
Just remember, reckless is dangerous with intent, that should help you to figure which is more serious :niceone:
Ahhhhh, so reckless is dangerous with Mens Rea that......I see. Thanks for that

spudchucka
6th August 2004, 12:29
Ahhhhh, so reckless is dangerous with Mens Rea that......I see. Thanks for that
You got it, knowing the likely consequences of the dangerous driving they "recklessly" or "intentionally" carry on driving like a f**kwit.

Lou Girardin
6th August 2004, 18:31
Wkid, I was referring to your statement that you may not pass at all if you cross the yellow lines. Traffic Regs; Reg 8, Section 6 - No driver shall pass or attempt to pass a vehicle, other than a bicycle, MOVING in the same direction, unless they do so without crossing the yellow lines.
If this were not the case, a parked vehicle could become a very effective road block if one couldn't pass it without crossing the yellow lines.
Sometimes the law does have a logic to it.

sAsLEX
6th August 2004, 18:46
off topic, but isnt it about time wikd changed his sig???

wkid_one
6th August 2004, 21:00
Yeah - I need to do a new one with CBR - thanks for pointing that out.

Mind you - I will always love my R1

MadDuck
6th August 2004, 22:09
You can only pass on the left when:

<DL><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line, and you are able to pass safely by using the left-hand lane (ie not occupy the same lane!)<DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif you are directed to by a police officer <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/orange-bullet.gif the vehicle you are passing: <DL class=indented><DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif has stopped, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is signalling a right turn, or <DT>http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/green-bullet.gif is turning right </DT></DL></DT></DL>At all other times you must pass on the right.

PS - you are also not allowed to use the flush median to pass either!
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/no-pass-median.jpg
Some more for you
TRAFFIC REGULATIONS 1976 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={B1293DC4}&softpage=DOC)
PART 2 - DRIVING RULES (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=310386931&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&jd=r1976-227%2fs.5&record={7BCFE697}&softpage=DOC)
5. Driving in lanes—
(2)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifNo driver shall drive, either wholly or partly, in any lane that is not available to him
(ie - you can't occupy a lane with another vehicle)



Passing on the right is considered just that - passing! Provided you either don't cross the yellow line, or pass safely on a white - this is passing - not lane splitting.



OMG Wikid thats Whangaparaoa Road!!! If I didnt overtake on the crossed lines not only would I have one damn sore hand but it would take 30 minutes to travel 3kms. I have never been ticketed but on the odd occassion have been given a rather sour look by our local coppers. They tend to be stuck just as much as the other cagers you see.

My understanding from Bronz is that the double yellow means - NO OVERTAKING whatsoever. Thats what they teach at their courses anyways.

speedpro
6th August 2004, 22:10
There's a line to be crossed for sure, as far as the police go, if your're putting by 10-15kph quicker than the traffic and you got a bit of room etc, they won't bother.
INCORRECT if it's the tosser who potted me. I'd previously been warned twice for exactly that, all by the same aforementioned tosser.

bgd
6th August 2004, 22:47
As mentioned previously lane splitting (filtering) is legal in the UK. And not just for bikes, cars can also do it. Of course it does pay to judge your gap...

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25870

spudchucka
6th August 2004, 23:01
INCORRECT if it's the tosser who potted me. I'd previously been warned twice for exactly that, all by the same aforementioned tosser.
So the guy gives you two warnings and on the third time he gives you a ticket and that makes him a tosser? Some might say it makes you a slow learner.

Velox
7th August 2004, 00:10
Spud - do you have 'the' official word on if you can legally pass cars when there's a yellow line if you don't cross the line itself?

wkid_one
7th August 2004, 00:23
Spud - do you have 'the' official word on if you can legally pass cars when there's a yellow line if you don't cross the line itself?
Read my post - IT IS COPIED DIRECTLY FROM THE LTSA WEBSITE and is therefore as official as you can get.

speedpro
7th August 2004, 17:46
So the guy gives you two warnings and on the third time he gives you a ticket and that makes him a tosser? Some might say it makes you a slow learner.

Some.

It was over a period of years, I commuted most days, the traffic was shit, I was on a little bike. EVERY other cop I spoke to including a couple on bikes said they wouldn't bother.

He's a tosser!

chainsaw
18th August 2004, 22:52
there is only careless and dangerous in this country

careless = not the actions of a careful and prudent driver

dangerous = with reckless disregard for public safety which means there must be volition in the act of recklessness more than mere inadvertence or mistake.

careless = whoops, dumbarse, wheelies

reckless = leather clad, lizard brained f*ckwit (usually from wanganui and on the way to, or back from the cold kiwi)

RevHead
17th April 2007, 09:25
When I see bikes lane splitting at 80K's I think to say myself 'as soon as I start pulling sh*t like that, I'm selling the bike'. Famous last words...
And I agree if a cop flashes at you, best to keep lane splitting and don't look back. They have never come near catching me in rush hour traffic. If they do manage to catch you and give you a ticket, they earned it because the cop probably almost crashed 5 times trying. At the same time I have never gone up against a cop on a bike, has anyone managed to slip one of those rogue units?

Sanx
17th April 2007, 10:02
No driver shall drive, either wholly or partly, in any lane that is not available to him(ie - you can't occupy a lane with another vehicle)

Interesting legislation. Surely one could argue that if one is in the lane, it was available.

Anyway. I had a long talk with a motorbike cop at Cyclespot Honda whilst they did some work on his ST1100. He summed up the legality of lane-splitting thus: "Don't be dick and you won't get a ticket". It's not explicitly illegal, no is it explicitly legal. However, there are forty-four different offences that can cover lane-splitting. Keep your right indicator on while you're doing it, and don't go over 40kph.

Immediately after the conversation, we set off down the northwestern motorway in rush-hour traffic. He lane-split, so I followed. :mellow:

Gremlin
17th April 2007, 18:22
At the same time I have never gone up against a cop on a bike, has anyone managed to slip one of those rogue units?
They are wide bikes... it comes down to what you are riding, how tight the traffic is, and whether or not you even knew he was there.

If he gets your plate, its over before it even began...

Ixion
18th April 2007, 00:27
Thing with a bikie cop, HE can blat down the emergency shoulder, which is faster than splitting.

Gremlin
18th April 2007, 00:47
which is faster than splitting.
is it? :shutup:

Swoop
21st May 2007, 09:31
I was fully impressed with having a :Police: escort along the NW this morning!!!
Five of us all sitting behind a Police bike that was leading the filtering train:rofl:
Have to admit that he was taking it easy and indicating (as we all do!). His panniers were getting close at times, but all good.

:niceone:

Mully
21st May 2007, 12:36
I was fully impressed with having a :Police: escort along the NW this morning!!!
Five of us all sitting behind a Police bike that was leading the filtering train


I saw this train. It only had 3 bikes following it when I saw it from the cage (just before Gt Nth Rd offramp). One of the best things I have seen for a while.

If I'd had a camera and some more time, my PC would have a new wallpaper image.

Swoop
21st May 2007, 13:45
I saw this train. It only had 3 bikes following it when I saw it from the cage (just before Gt Nth Rd offramp). One of the best things I have seen for a while.

If I'd had a camera and some more time, my PC would have a new wallpaper image.
I had pulled into 1a just before Gt Nth. On the red bike...

It was fun while it lasted!