TV 8/2/07: Inside New Zealand - 4WD menace [Archive]

Wolf

5th February 2007, 14:43

Thursday 8 Feb 8:30pm the Inside New Zealand series is doing an episode on the menace of 4WD/SUVs.

It looks interesting from the preview - apparently only 15% of those bought in NZ are used for the purpose for which they were built, which means 85% of the bloody things have no right being on the roads endangering our lives.

The voice-over recommends that even if you don't own one it would pay to watch and learn the shortcomings of them as you have to share the roads with them (pretty slim chance you'd be encountering them off-road, eh? Unless you routinely ride on the grass verges and lawns in Remmers...)

From TV3's site:
Inside New Zealand: 4WDs: Danger On The Road
Thu-08-Feb 20:30
DURATION: 60
GENRE: Documentary
RATING: PGR

DESCRIPTION: A shocking investigation showing the dangers of the increasingly popular big SUVs to their own drivers and to other road users.

I'll certainly be watching it.

onearmedbandit

5th February 2007, 14:49

Yet again, who cares? They are legal to buy no matter what your intention is to use them for. Thought about the people that need seven seats (Prado, Bighorn, Discovery, etc) or people who use them to tow a boat etc?

Only 15% of them are used for what they are built for? Endangering lives? Could say the same thing about sportsbikes. Should we outlaw those as well?

And as far as I remember, we in this country are relatively free to make our own purchasing decisions. If the demand is there, people will supply them.

Beemer

5th February 2007, 14:50

MisterD

5th February 2007, 14:53

It looks interesting from the preview - apparently only 15% of those bought in NZ are used for the purpose for which they were built,

Cobblers. SUV are built specifically as trendy, fashion statement lifestyle accessories...you're not suggesting a BMW X5 is designed to go off-road surely, with those tyres.:whocares:

Edbear

5th February 2007, 14:55

It's part of the Gummint plot to reduce the number of gas-guzzlers on the roads...:shutup:

Make them non-PC and people will stop buying them. Scare people away from them, marginalise their owners, make them defensive. Next programme will be about the beauty of small, fuel-efficient cars and how much better for all they are... Sort of a "You meet the nicest people..." campaign.:yes:

onearmedbandit

5th February 2007, 15:08

I should add that I'm keen for the removal of most 'older' cars from our roads, except obvious classics etc. So yeah that includes older 4wds, which are for the most part 'less' safer vehicles then their newer counterparts. Late model 4x4's are extremely well equipped and built. However most won't see past their own noses and still cry for the removal of all 4x4's, including late model variants.

mstriumph

5th February 2007, 15:16

.............What amazes me is the fact that so many people - women especially - say they drive them because they are SAFE. ...........

bollocks - its the power trip
i drive the works 4wds - on and off road -------- takes me at least 20 minutes afterwards to come down to earth and stop acting like high-princess-mucky-muck, queen-of-the-heap, yes-i-do-own-the-road-move-aside-you-plebs .....

oh - right - yes ........ that's the way i act ALL the time ...... :innocent:

Crisis management

5th February 2007, 15:16

I can't believe this is a carefully researched doco, they haven't interviewed me!
None of my carefully developed SUV driving skills and tips have been enquired into!! How can you expect a well rounded programme with such shallow investigative reporting....
I have such a wealth to offer,such as:
how to get over those bluestone kerbs without damaging the treads, etiquette involved in driving on the rugby field (handing out the oranges), herding shopping trolleys when its too wet to walk to the rack thingy, controlled drifts thru red lights (doesn't seem to decelerate fast enough when it rains, you really need longer light phases) and the basics of slow speed shunting to get a decent parking space.

I would have even washed the Isuzu for the occassion (i can't actually see out of most of the windows at the mo, so it would've been a good time).

I suppose they're going to go on about the carbon balance thingy again too....the bloody thing produces carbon every time I accelerate, what more do they want!!!

Drunken Monkey

5th February 2007, 15:19

**** yawn ****

What is it, a slow news day today?

Motu

5th February 2007, 15:25

It's part of the Gummint plot to reduce the number of gas-guzzlers on the roads...:shutup:

:

You got it - getting the media to do the dirty work....and the media just loves to do it.Perfection....

MisterD

5th February 2007, 15:30

**** yawn ****

What is it, a slow news day today?

Evidently. The calm before the Maori Day storm...

car

5th February 2007, 15:34

Only 15% of them are used for what they are built for? Endangering lives? Could say the same thing about sportsbikes.

Yup. How many see the racetrack regularly? Compared to how many that treat the road like a racetrack?

And as far as I remember, we in this country are relatively free to make our own purchasing decisions. If the demand is there, people will supply them.

Any argument that starts "these things are dangerous, consume too much petrol and are designed to be used somewhere other than the only roads they ever see" will end with motorcyclists being offered the choice of a Honda Cub or a Toyota Pruis. If you're lucky. If you're unlucky it'll be Shanks' pony or the bus.

Finn

5th February 2007, 15:35

This is hilarious. Do you really think the Government will introduce a bill that bans the use of 4x4's and SUV's if not used for heavy or off road work? I don't think so. As MisterD says, our X5 is not built for off road use. It's just a medium sized SUV. Please define it's proper use. The best they could try is a Gas Guzzlers tax as they do in many US States. This is good outcome because tax can easily be avoided.

Jesus you kiwis are a pathetic bunch of inbreeds. I can think of 100's of "real" issues that need addressing and you bitches moan about people driving large vehicles.

I think you lot should all go up north tomorrow and hug a maori.

Bonez

5th February 2007, 15:37

Tin foil hat on- it's a Govt ploy.
Tin foil hat off- I see penty of reasons to own a for be for.

Guess I'll sleep though the doco zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

nodrog

5th February 2007, 15:47

I think you lot should all go up north tomorrow and hug a maori.

car pie :grouphug:

The Pastor

5th February 2007, 16:14

Yeah but back to biking, they tend to be the ones cutting the corners the most though aye........

onearmedbandit

5th February 2007, 16:17

.

Jesus you kiwis are a pathetic bunch of inbreeds. I can think of 100's of "real" issues that need addressing and you bitches moan about people driving large vehicles.

Come on Finn, you know as well as I do there are people all throughout the world with nothing better to do then bitch about pointless issues. Threads like this just tend to bring them out of the woodwork.

kro

5th February 2007, 16:29

I kind of agree with Finn. NZ seems to be becoming a nation of whistle blowers, and moaners.
When our business opened up in Nelson, the company got a signwriter to put a big sign on the side of the tilt slab wall, and no sooner was it painted, someone from the local council saying that some old git had complained about the size of the sign, and that we had to sand blast some of it off.

We have people wanting to "legislate" motocross bikes on private property, and a whole rash of bullshit whinge sessions locally, let alone what's going on na tionally.

I have nothing against SUV's.

mstriumph

5th February 2007, 18:36

..............Jesus you kiwis are a pathetic bunch of inbreeds....................

doesn't inbreeding result in stunted growth or sumthin? :innocent:

Finn

5th February 2007, 19:20

doesn't inbreeding result in stunted growth or sumthin? :innocent:

Inbreeding has no effect on dimensions. For example, take a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. It's still the same size, it's just all messed up and doesn't make any sense. Much the same as the people that ramble on about SUV's.

Lou Girardin

5th February 2007, 19:23

The one thing I admire 'Red' Ken Livingston for, is squeezeing 4WD owners till their pips squeak via parking fees.
The things are a curse and have no place in an urban environment. All they're good for is running over their owners kids.
Those who own them give society the finger, so we can reciprocate.

Deano

5th February 2007, 19:36

Late model 4x4's are extremely well equipped and built. However most won't see past their own noses and still cry for the removal of all 4x4's, including late model variants.

As long as the owners know what to expect in terms of handling, and they don't just buy them thinking, "whatever happens, I'll be alright, in my steel crash barrier"..........

Was that a bug on my windshield or a technicoloured leather clad kiwibiker.

It seems Volvo driver's used to cop a lot of flack from MC mag's for the same reason.......

You're not slightly biased cause you sell em are ya ?

Admittedly, SUV's have been around since the first landcruiser haven't they ? Just not in today's quantity driven by soccer mom's preening themselves in the rear view between Eastbourne and the Hutt....

Motu

5th February 2007, 19:43

Those who own them give society the finger, so we can reciprocate.

Bugger - and here's me thinking that for 37 years I've been giving society the finger by riding a motorcycle.But it appears it had no effect....but driving a beat up Pajero does!.Oh well,at least I got the desired effect in the end.

chanceyy

5th February 2007, 19:48

They should give a free copy of the doco to every 4WD owner - and it should be mandatory equipment with every one sold!

What amazes me is the fact that so many people - women especially - say they drive them because they are SAFE. I have no desire to buy one because I would never use one off road and what's the point of having one if you only use it to go shopping in? I'm sure a Camry or similar would have even more boot space and a better ride!

I do not drive mine because its safe .. neither do 5 other freinds who own them .. we drive them cause we can at time tow in excess of 2.5 ton, & getting in my house when the roadworks was on I needed a 4 wheel drive .. mind you still need it on occassion at the moment

as for the ride its way more comfy that my old camry ever was .. & more boot space .. esp when the back seats fold down

also its been handy to have a 7 seater esp when you take drunken workmates home ;)

but then I have brought the vehicle that is best suited to my needs rather than a fancy accessory, & can not afford a second smaller car

onearmedbandit

5th February 2007, 20:12

You're not slightly biased cause you sell em are ya ?

Not at all mate. If our clients couldn't purchase a 4x4/SUV/RV then they would purchase something else. What I'm against however is people trying to impose their beliefs on others.

Nasty

6th February 2007, 02:52

I do not drive mine because its safe .. neither do 5 other freinds who own them .. we drive them cause we can at time tow in excess of 2.5 ton, & getting in my house when the roadworks was on I needed a 4 wheel drive .. mind you still need it on occassion at the moment

as for the ride its way more comfy that my old camry ever was .. & more boot space .. esp when the back seats fold down

also its been handy to have a 7 seater esp when you take drunken workmates home ;)

but then I have brought the vehicle that is best suited to my needs rather than a fancy accessory, & can not afford a second smaller car

Totally agree Chanceyy ..

I bought a small 4wd knowing the safety issues ... I use 4wd when the Grub and I go camping .... and its great ... also I have MS and was having trouble getting in and out of the 2.0 L Honda Prelude I owned ... which was a huge gas guzzler compared to my 1.6 L Vitara.

I think we prefer our vehicle situation now ... one 4wd and two bikes ... :)

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 06:22

Weeelllll, I drive a suv, bullbars raised suspension, big wheels/tyres etc, and yep I use it to intimidate the incompetent assholes that clutter up our roadways at every oppertunity. But it's real funny when I drive a car to work on the same roads how many assholes pull out in front of ya and cut ya off etc.......
I'm still amused by all the so called safety research they do, maybe in a rollover thay may be a bit less safe, but I'll challenge anyone to a battle in a modern car, I've demolished a couple of old wrecks with mine, just for fun, with hardly a scratch......
I consider it balance, to make up for when I have to dodge everyone on my bike....
Oh yeh, I do use it off road occasionally too.......

Wolf

6th February 2007, 08:36

Of course they're all perfectly safe and the 4xfuckwit in front of me yesterday had perfectly legitimate reasons (and every right) to drive with his right wheels in the passing lane for most of the road from Te Awamutu to Hamilton.

And I'm sure it will be a great comfort to me when I'm in hospital, getting what's left of my legs removed, that we live in a country where people are free to purchase vehicles they have no ability to control and not have to concern themselves with knowing the vehicle's weaknesses and risks.

I ride a motorcycle, a vehicle with certain inherent risks and vulnerabilities of which I am aware - and I factor those risks into my riding.

I also have a car with a different set of risks and vulnerabilities of which I am also aware and I have to switch modes when driving it and factor in the new risks and vulnerabilities.

The problem is: there are a lot of people out there who can drive a car (or think they can) who then jump into an SUV and attempt to drive it as if the risks and weaknesses are the same as those in a car but - until we work out how to suspend certain laws of physics - they're not.

But no, you're right, any programme to alert people to the different risks of a large 4x4 compared with a small saloon is a government plot to take all the "fun" vehicles off the road and the Nazis and Thought Police are about to target our bikes.

We didn't end up cooking a roast the other night so I've got plenty of aluminium foil going spare here for those who want it.

After all, it's evil to let the general public be informed about the safety factors of the vehicles they, or others on the road, use. Best not put on a programme about how hard it is to stop or start a truck and trailer rig - under the pretext of warning people not to behave as if it performs like a mini - that would mean the gov't is trying to destroy our transportation infrastructure.

Bloody kiwis these days, turned into a nation of conspiracy theorists.

I for one will be tuning in to the doco so I better understand the handling, blind spots, braking etc of the SUVs so I can better predict how they are likely to behave and I hope that the owners of them watch it too so they won't think that a cursory glance into the rear view mirror whilst applying their lipstick and texting their analyst is a sufficient check to ensure the road is clear.

I'm the first to admit that, in my opinion, cars are purely utilitarian - a means to carry things I cannot carry on a bike - and that I'm pretty much uninterested in all cars except veteran, classic or vintage cars. I am also aware that my opinion is not universal and that there are people out there as enthusiastic about cars as I am about motorbikes - and that is their right. 'twould be a sad world if we all liked the same things (for a start, demand would outstrip supply and drive the prices up).

However, it is the responsibility of people who purchase vehicles to go into the decisions with their eyes open and aware of the ramifications of their choices. And their responsibility to factor any risks into their behaviour on public roads.

With the size of our family, it is looking likely that we will have to purchase a 7- or 8-seater, possibly one of the "people movers", and when/if I do, it will be after careful consideration of the risks and shortcomings of the vehicles and it will be driven with due respect for said risks and shortcomings.

But let's not let personal responsibility, risk awareness and considered decision making get in the way of a good rant about the current Nazi-state and Big Brother Helen, eh? As you were...

Motu

6th February 2007, 08:54

... also I have MS and was having trouble getting in and out of the 2.0 L Honda Prelude I owned ... :)

I got my Pajero when my mother had terminal cancer - she was as weak as a kitten,but still insisted on going shopping,paying her bills etc.I thought climbing up and down into the Pajero might be too hard,but she preferred it as it had hand holds,and could step down,not haul herself up to get out.Just another plus.

spookytooth

6th February 2007, 09:08

I dont see where the ill handing bit comes from.I have a Nissan 3.3 terrino had it for 4 years.Yea its burned more petrole than any other car ivé owned but it fits all of me work crap in the back ok.It sure aint gutless and it handles pretty good.Have blown a few boy racers away up the Kiamis both sides.It handels way better than a prelude i had and is a hell of a lot better than all the vans i,ve owned To each there own ::rockon:

Beemer

6th February 2007, 09:22

I do not drive mine because its safe .. neither do 5 other freinds who own them .. we drive them cause we can at time tow in excess of 2.5 ton, & getting in my house when the roadworks was on I needed a 4 wheel drive .. mind you still need it on occassion at the moment

as for the ride its way more comfy that my old camry ever was .. & more boot space .. esp when the back seats fold down

also its been handy to have a 7 seater esp when you take drunken workmates home ;)

but then I have brought the vehicle that is best suited to my needs rather than a fancy accessory, & can not afford a second smaller car

Please note that I said "the majority" of women who drive them do so because someone has said they are safe. Sounds like you own and drive a 4WD for the reasons they were intended, which is not what I was talking about. I was - and I bet Wolf was too - referring to the posh ladies (and please don't red rep me for assuming you are not one of these, I've never met you) who drive them to and from the gym, cafe and private school. They would be better off in a station wagon or large family car. 4WDs have become status symbols and a lot of people have no idea how to drive them.

onearmedbandit

6th February 2007, 10:02

I come across more fucking idiots in cars than I do in 4x4's.

oldguy

6th February 2007, 10:25

You try doing this with your little eco friendly car:finger: , and if the boats not in tow,
I have the bike trailer, take the whanu out to woodhill, then there is my other toy, my car (cage) for those who don't know, have to hire a trailer for that, tow my car down to Pukekohe raceway, or Meremere for the Drags, Xmas hoilday time, load up the trailer and go camping, oh and when it rains and I can't be botherd with putting the wet gear on I take the 4x4.

1 vehicle does it all, Go the Mighty Pajero :niceone:

Wolf

6th February 2007, 10:44

Sounds like you own and drive a 4WD for the reasons they were intended, which is not what I was talking about. I was - and I bet Wolf was too - referring to the posh ladies (and please don't red rep me for assuming you are not one of these, I've never met you) who drive them to and from the gym, cafe and private school. They would be better off in a station wagon or large family car. 4WDs have become status symbols and a lot of people have no idea how to drive them.
I do not deny that 4x4s have their uses and strong points and there are those here who have stated they know the inherent risks and make allowances for them - and I have no problem with that. There are also others out there mindful of the differences between a 4x4 and a car and drive them accordingly.

The fact does remain, however, that a significant number of them are bought purely as status symbols by people who have no idea of the differences between a large 4x4 and a small saloon and drive them accordingly.

In that respect, they are a major risk on our roads (as are people driving faster sportier cars than the ones they are used to, people driving vans and people-movers as if they are cars and people riding superbikes as if they are GN250s).

They are also a risk owing to the large number of people who don't know how they perform, where their blindspots are etc and expect them to behave like a regular car. Just as trucks are a risk owing to the people who don't seem to be aware you can't stop a truck in the same distance as you could stop a mini.

I see no need to have a large 4x4 to do the circuit between school, gym and cafe but, as has been pointed out, if they want to blow >$50K on a status symbol, that is their right.

However, they do have the responsibility to ensure they know how to drive it properly.

How many dealers advise the buyers of the risks involved in them and the differences between them and smaller 2-wheel drive cars?

Very few, I suspect. Many are more concerned with the commission/profit on the >$50K vehicle than ensuring the Remuera "soccer-mom" has a clue about what she's getting into.

The problem is not the number of SUVs on the road. The problem is the percentage of those SUVs that are driven to people who haven't progressed beyond a Honda City.

They are lots of alternatives to SUVs in most cases - a V8 saloon will happily tow a boat or horse float, a people-mover seats up to 8 people - many (not all) people choose to own an SUV only because it is more prestigeous than the alternatives. Sure, fine, their prerogative - but also their responsibility.

Some silly Remmers-chick driving a trendy SUV like it's an MR-2 is a hazard, no matter how many people out there can point to their own need for one. I'm not saying the Remmers-chick should ditch the SUV, I'm saying she should learn how to drive the fecking thing properly and carefully.

If a doco opens a few eyes and makes the public at large more aware of the differences between cars and SUVs or whatever, then that's got to be a positive thing.

I'd be quite happy to see a doco on the risks inherent in motorcycles televised in the hopes that it might educate at least some of the stupid cagers in how bikes perform, handle, corner and brake so maybe they'll cut us some slack on the roads, keep their distance and not do so many bone-headed things.

And it might give some of the more irresponsible riders out there cause to think about their actions, too.

But that'd just be a government plot to get rid of motorbikes, eh.

KLOWN

6th February 2007, 10:48

My friend used to have an old suzuki vitara style vehicle (not called a vitara, but similar) It was a 1.3 and we had great fun with it going all the places we shouldn't and generally ripping it up, but its handling was shit and a little bit of research on the net said these vehicles were sold with roll over warings in the states because they were so prone to rolling. Much newer 4x4 are better especially the expensive ones, ie the bmw and the porsche with all the new technology of yaw control etc but I think one point the docos will make is the danger is to OTHER pople not the people driving the suvs. If you get hit by one you are more likely to be killed.... in a car or on a bike or as a pedestrian they are dangerous. Also I have seen a couple of horrible accidents when 4x4 owners thought thier vechicles handled good, and they do, untill you need to make a evasive monuver. I owned a mini and often would take it out for a good cane. On my way out to piha one time a 4x4 tried to race me and he over took me as my mini was a bit gutless but boy could it handle, so anyway we were ripping through some corners and he was going faster than I felt I was able to go, next corner we came to was a lefthander and he proceeded to rip round it, it was on one hell of a lean, halfway through the corner a car was parked and he had to take emergency action to avoid the car and surprise surprise 4x4 swerved right, snapped back left and rolled was horrific it was just VERY lucky no one was coming the other way. 4x4 can handle well but not when evasive action is necessary. You can enter a corner and get the 4x4 leaning and nice and settled for a good corner but if you have to unsettle that predicted line its all over.

Also another thing that get me about 4x4 alot of the people who NEVER take it off road still have off road tyres on it, makes for crappier grip.

Wolf

6th February 2007, 11:06

You try doing this with your little eco friendly car:finger:
WTF has "eco-friendly" got to do with the topic at hand - vis, the hazards of people who are unaware of the physical differences between an SUV and a "standard" car?

Sheesh, mention that there are a lot of people out there that are unaware of the physical risks inherent in SUVs and suddenly half the forum gets on the defensive and starts screamimg that they're being got at by Eco-Nazis.

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one. To suggest otherwise is part of a gummint plot to control the Earth at the behest of the Eco-Nazis in their eco-friendly black helicopters.

Of course you can jump straight into an SUV and expect the same cornering, stopping ability and visibility as in your mum's Camry, they're totally interchangeable with 2-wheel-drive vehicles and no extra considerations need be taken. To suggest otherwise is the action of a stupid tree-hugging hippy.

There no irresponsible or dangerous bike riders in New Zealand, either.

I'd ask for a Tui but I prefer vodka.

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 11:27

You do realise that prolly half these people that are dangerous in suv's would be dangerous in a mini don't you? :zzzz:

Finn

6th February 2007, 11:28

Here's proof that when you're driving a SUV, you're perfectly safe inside your your big metal shell. Oh yes, road superiority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBt0Ae5S0E

onearmedbandit

6th February 2007, 11:28

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 11:29

Also another thing that get me about 4x4 alot of the people who NEVER take it off road still have off road tyres on it, makes for crappier grip.
Yeh, but they look cool and sound the bizz while I'm cruising the motorway tailgating some biker and yakking on my celly and drinking my latte..... :finger:

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 11:31

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.
Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

onearmedbandit

6th February 2007, 11:33

Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

Yes, that too.

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 11:35

Here's proof that when you're driving a SUV, you're perfectly safe inside your your big metal shell. Oh yes, road superiority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBt0Ae5S0E
What sort of suv is that?????? Looks more like a family s/w to me......
(though it is possible old age is getting my eyesight a bit, but it looks pretty small...)

SixPackBack

6th February 2007, 11:49

Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

Living with the poor design would be easier if the roads where maintained.

East Coast Bays Road used to be a great stretch, fast, flowing and wide enough to be reasonably safe. After digging up the north bound lane to insert a water pipe the contractors appear to have roughly filled the resulting ditch in and coated it with a thin layer of tar and stones.

The resulting abortion is a road that now requires a 4*4 due to the holes and bumps, in the wet slick tar turns it into a skating track.

How do these pricks get away with it? bitching to the council or transit is met with total disinterest!!!.....but excuse me you fuckers tax payers [you and I] payed for that road. Shit it makes my blood boil.

Wolf

6th February 2007, 11:50

You do realise that prolly half these people that are dangerous in suv's would be dangerous in a mini don't you? :zzzz:
Possibly - but the mini lacks the same momentum. Should I return your red "bling" because I disagree with you? No, I prefer reasoned debate.

Ixion

6th February 2007, 11:50

,,

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .

Wolf

6th February 2007, 11:57

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .
But wouldn't that infringe on everyone's inalienable right to drive whatever the fuck they want irrespective of whether or not they're capable of handling it?

Finn

6th February 2007, 12:01

What sort of suv is that?????? Looks more like a family s/w to me......
(though it is possible old age is getting my eyesight a bit, but it looks pretty small...)

I couldn't tell but I'd imagine you'd be much safer in a bigger one. Anyway, I'm off in the SUV to pick up some beers. It'll be carnage.

KLOWN

6th February 2007, 12:02

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .

the problem with this is the INcompetant will still pass the test cause it seems like all the driving tests are a joke. Who the fuck fails thier test its sooooo fuckin easy !@!! (or was when i took mine)

Wolf

6th February 2007, 12:04

Unfortunately Wolf, you've struck a nerve.
So 'twould seem - enough to get me red-repped, too.

onearmedbandit

6th February 2007, 12:10

Wolf, people won't always agree with you, that I'm sure you know. And the rep system is there for both agreeing with something someone posted, and also for disagreeing as well. Don't take it to heart when someone shows their opinion via rep, unless it is abusive.

Clockwork

6th February 2007, 15:15

I wasn't going to participate in this thread because quite honestly, as OAB says I'm getting sick of having to defend my choice of vehicle but...

I'm the first to admit that, in my opinion, cars are purely utilitarian - a means to carry things I cannot carry on a bike - and that I'm pretty much uninterested in all cars except veteran, classic or vintage cars.

How do these cars contribute to road safety? I'd suggest that my 4x4 breaks and corners way better than most cars in this category!

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one. To suggest otherwise is part of a gummint plot to control the Earth at the behest of the Eco-Nazis in their eco-friendly black helicopters.

Of course you can jump straight into an SUV and expect the same cornering, stopping ability and visibility as in your mum's Camry, they're totally interchangeable with 2-wheel-drive vehicles and no extra considerations need be taken. To suggest otherwise is the action of a stupid tree-hugging hippy.

Why do people assume that because the car is clean and being driven around the suburbs...... by
:gob: "a woman" :gob:
that the family has no need for an SUV. And I'd say that the all-round visibility from my SUV was as good if not better than ANY other saloon car I've owned.

How many dealers advise the buyers of the risks involved in them and the differences between them and smaller 2-wheel drive cars?

Very few, I suspect. Many are more concerned with the commission/profit on the >$50K vehicle than ensuring the Remuera "soccer-mom" has a clue about what she's getting into.

The problem is not the number of SUVs on the road. The problem is the percentage of those SUVs that are driven to people who haven't progressed beyond a Honda City.

Would you expect the same "talk" when bying a small truck/people mover/van/motorbike/vintage car? I'm sure dealer's don't get any more commision for selling SUVs than any other car.

They are lots of alternatives to SUVs in most cases - a V8 saloon will happily tow a boat or horse float, a people-mover seats up to 8 people - many (not all) people choose to own an SUV only because it is more prestigeous than the alternatives. Sure, fine, their prerogative - but also their responsibility.

Which V8 saloon will take 5 adults comfortably up a mountian to go skiing, and along the beach, towing a boat/caravan and move reasonable volumes of cargo without a trailer and allow the owner to trek off-road as and when they choose; and commute comortably, because my 2.7 ltr 4 cyl deisel could do all of this. And you know what.... I think my wife even ran the kids to school it it once or twice!

But then it has to do all this... because its the only car we have!!

KLOWN

6th February 2007, 15:29

everyone is getting a bit uppitty/defensive in this topic when the original post and subsquent posts from wolf is just saying it would be an informative watch hes NOT saying death to all suv drivers, i don't believe anyone is. But if all your posts are anything to go by its safe to say that suv/4x4 drivers are a sensitive and defensive bunch that just needs to believe that everyone is not out to get them and thier precious 4x4s:yes:

edit: also when I think back EVERY 4x4 that i can remember on the road has been a pushie and shit driver. :dodge:

BUT you only remember the bad things and never the good because they haven't done anything to upset you so y remember them.

kro

6th February 2007, 16:16

And I'm sure it will be a great comfort to me when I'm in hospital, getting what's left of my legs removed, that we live in a country where people are free to purchase vehicles they have no ability to control and not have to concern themselves with knowing the vehicle's weaknesses and risks.

A 15 yr old can get his/her drivers license, and on the same day, can get behind the wheel of a 450hp Skyline turbo, and within 18 months (ish) of obtaining a bike license, you can easily acquire a motorcycle that will rape the skyline at a fraction of the price, yet an SUV is a vehicle that requires special handling?.

Sorry dude, I used to come from your end of the spectrum, but the reality eventually overtook my prejudice, and I realised that all vehicles require special handling, and consideration. Are all family sedans driven the same way?. The 1999 Toyota sedan with ABS brakes can be braked hard as hell by a rookie driver, without locking the brakes up, but the same driver jumps into the 1985 Mitsi Sigma, and gets it fully locked and sideways during his first outing because the mitsi didn't have the ABS, and he/she failed to drive accordingly.

What about the XM Falcon with 4 wheel drums?, it's gonna be even worse..... you see what I'm saying?.

Clockwork

6th February 2007, 16:22

KLOWN

6th February 2007, 19:06

Fair enough Klown, I guess we all have our sore points but the ragging and moaning is starting to wear a bit thin for me on this topic (and I called myself clockwork for a reson you know :msn-wink: )

Maybe poor driving skills are magnified by SUVs but extra training/licensing isn't going to change anything.... after all these clowns (no offense) plus may other poor drivers have already passed the hardest test by getting a license in the first place. At the end of the day the biggest problem seems to be that some drivers are just plain inconsiderate and I can't see how any amount of testing can ever change that.

As far as I can see the so called "safety issues" paraded around SUV ownership is simply another attempt at trying to "moan" these vehicles off the road.

I see your point. I personnally like 4x4s and was looking at getting one before I got my bike. I think this "moaning" about 4x4 is the same thing as the govt "moaning" about speeding. Speeding dosent kill, crossing the white line, loosing control of the vehiicle is what kills... speeding just makes the damage worse. 4x4 being much heavier are more leathal. Just like the faster you go the bigger the mess, the heavier your car is the bigger the mess (to the other guy) The biggest problem I see with 4x4 is the same as any other car/bike/ute the DRIVER. NZ driver standards are poor and the test are WAY to easy. You never get tested on the open road and other enviroments that you have to drive in everyday its just stupid. I saw a program on sky once about the auto bahn(sp?) and what the driver go through there before they get thier license. MONTHS of practice with a driving instructor on A roads B raods on the auto bahn in the rain in good weather etc they get taught in every condition that you may have to face not, to use an analogy, i've taught you how to doggy paddle thefore you can now swim the english channel what a load of shit.

I do enjoy winding people up though so my apologies for any undue stress caused to you 4x4 drivers :innocent:

have a good time in them BUT take them OFFROAD its SOSO SO SO much fun ripping up the mud/sand etc use your vehicles to thier potential.

another quick side note. There is a guy who comes into my work in a porsche cyanne(sp?) and I had a chat with him about it (i LOVE porsches) and he uses it on his farm he has even transported a calf in the back of it LOL all the 4x4 even the bmw x5 CAN go off road and they may not be the best at it but they can still do it.

JimO

6th February 2007, 19:25

4X4s rule ................

chanceyy

6th February 2007, 20:11

Idiots who don't deserve to be on the road do not understand the difference between the handling capabilites of a SUV and a sedan. These same idiots would be a danger in a car, on a bike, etc. Everyone I know who owns an SUV understands they are not car like and drive them accordingly.

I understand you are trying to point out that people need to be better educated when considering buying one of these vehicles. However, SUV owners are getting sick and tired of having to defend themselves due to the actions of the minority. And believe me, sick and tired of it. Want to know how many morons have tried pointing out to me that my 2.5 tonne 4x4 doesn't handle like a car. Well fucking done. You don't think I realise that? I do drive the thing.

Kind of like motorcyclists getting sick and tired of being called 'temporary NZ's' or 'organ donors'. Not all of us, despite riding these dangerous two wheeled 'death traps' are intent on heading to an early grave.

Unfortunately Wolf, you've struck a nerve.

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

well said OMB, I have seen my share of shit drivers/riders but do not hold everyone who drives a car/truck/suv or rides motorbike in the same light .. its the mentality of drivers that must change & here in NZ we are pretty damn agressive on the road .. I know that I am .. but I also drive my 4x4 alot differently than my old car ... its not a matter of educating suv owners its about educating everyone who drives/rides on the roads ... & as previously stated the conditions of the roads are getting worse not better .. & of course the congestion of traffic is not helping ....

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 20:47

Should I return your red "bling" because I disagree with you?
Yes, this is what it's for.

DEATH_INC.

6th February 2007, 20:52

BTW, the most intimidatind vehicle I've ever owned wasn't a 4wd, it was a loud as 72(ish) ford fairlaine with tints and mags etc, shoulda seen 'em scatter when i came up behind 'em in that :lol:

Wolf

6th February 2007, 20:59

I wasn't going to participate in this thread because quite honestly, as OAB says I'm getting sick of having to defend my choice of vehicle but...
Since when did I ask/expect anyone to defend their choice of vehicle?

I said that there was a doco on inherent risks in SUV - which there are, same as there are inherent risks in all vehicles - and that it seemed worth a look and suddenly everyone feels the need to defend their choice to have an SUV and starts on the "Eco-Nazi Conspiracy" crap.

I also said later that I'd happily see a well documented programme on the risks of motorcycles in the hopes that other road users would learn from it.

How do these cars contribute to road safety? I'd suggest that my 4x4 breaks and corners way better than most cars in this category!
They don't but they at least look nice - especially if properly restored. Modern cars are arse - ugly, utilitarian, practically uniform and boring. As I said, the only reason I have a car is that it is useful for carrying things I cannot carry on a bike. Other than that I have no interest in cars except for the classic ones because they at least had style.

Timber020

6th February 2007, 21:46

Go the SUV! A work mates favourite trick with his landcruiser was to get is up on two wheels (he just dabbed the brakes and swerved), it was a real crowd pleaser until one night jason forgot about the big full snap on toolbox in the back which blew out his rear side window and gave it a great out dent, it was nearly enough to put it on its roof, but he saved it.

Another mate about 10 years back whom a few kiwibikers from up north will probably know had his wife driving home with the 2 kids in the SUV when they think she swerved to avoid something on a straight bit of road, it rolled. All dead.

My oversized 4wd has been hit twice over the last couple of years. Once by a Ford F250 (cant be many of those around) and once by a prado. Both times I was parked, the prado actually hit me 3 times in the side trying to do a 20 point turn, the 3rd time hard enough to buckle her rear door, break the rear window and two side rear windows and for the spare wheel to be ripped off. My workmate and I couldnt breath we were laughing so hard.

I have little faith in the ability or inability of people to control there vehicles, and the suv's used by people who have no idea of their limitations put alot of road users, including themselves in danger. This is a fact. I would think about a licensing system, I know its ass but it would make the roads safer as less soccer mums would bother and would stick to vehicles they are capable of putting there lipstick on in.

With trucks you used to get one heavy vehicle license that covered everything from a 3500kg to a 45,000 kg rig. You could legally get your licence in a heavily loaded toyota dyna van and drive a fully layden big rig that day on the roads. (we had some guy at a company I worked for claim he had driven all sorts of trucks when he had only got his licence in his dads mitz titan and was trying to get a job behind a 500hp 15sp ERF) It was insane. now you can sit your license in a smart car and drive a bohemoth towing a horsefloat with no other need for training? You just have to watch the number of SUV's that jack knife at the tip, jetty and horse events every weekend to know this isnt smart.

HRT

6th February 2007, 21:59

Haha, get over it Wolf.

There will always be those vehicles out there and the people driving them have as much right to drive them on the road as anyone else has to drive anything else legally registered. I personally cant see the point in those vehicles for taking the kids to school or whatever (apparent from the "safe to those inside" factor), but its their choice about what to drive. I can see it from other peoples point about why have bikes on the road when they serve no real purpose (from their point of view)

As for the comment about having older cars off the road (other than classics), where do you draw the line? Classics can come down to a personal preference. Being a little bit keen on Toyotas I would consider my KE20 and even KE36 to be getting a little bit classic, though I know many who would object to such a statements (mainly due to them being Japanese). There are a shit load of people who would call the AE86s a classic for obvious reasons, though they're a mid 80s Corolla. Where does the line get drawn?

End of the day, all you can do is bitch about it on the internet :whocares:

Pixie

7th February 2007, 00:04

I come across more fucking idiots in cars than I do in 4x4's.

Actually the percentage of fucking idiots is the same for both,but there are more cars around.

I don't mind what they drive as long as they don't block me as their gutless diesel crawls up a hill and they don't cross the centerline because they think their SUV is so big it cant keep left and they don't mind if I stop and laugh at them when they exceed their abilities and suffer the consequences,like the two SUV's on their roofs in the ditch on old north rd I've seen....Plonkers thought driving on the dirt verge was being adventurous,but they don't seem to see the culverts

Wolf

7th February 2007, 00:28

well said OMB, I have seen my share of shit drivers/riders but do not hold everyone who drives a car/truck/suv or rides motorbike in the same light
And who here said "all SUV drivers are..."? No one, yet a lot of the SUV drivers here seem to be reacting as if the words "some" or "many" equate to "all" and getting on their high horses.

its not a matter of educating suv owners its about educating everyone who drives/rides on the roads
And I did say in my first post that it would be handy for people who do not drive SUVs to watch the doco in order to learn more about the characteristics of SUVs. I also said that a doco about motorcycles would also be a good idea as a lot of road users patently don't have a clue about bikes.

But it seems to be much more fun to react as if a personal slur has been delivered and let rip.

So far we've had references to government and eco-nazi conspiracies, people reacting as if the suggestion was to ban all SUVs, references to "intimidating vehicles" and other such crap that has no bearing on the discussion.

In simple words:
I am not saying SUVs should be banned
I'm not saying that all SUV owners are irresponsible idiots.
I have no objections to SUVs on ecological grounds
I do not feel intimidated by SUVs.
I did not ask or expect anyone to "defend" their choice of vehicle.

The references to banning SUVs and intimidating vehicles and comparisons with "eco-friendly cars" all came from SUV owners' posts so clearly there are some issues in your own minds on these matters. The "I'm sick of having to defend my choice of vehicle" comments came out of the SUV owners' posts. Are some of you feeling so persecuted that any reference to the dangers of your chosen vehicle is seen as a personal attack?

As has been stated: there are dangers associated with all vehicles. Very different dangers across the spectrum owing to the various strengths and weaknesses of the vehicles. This is a fact.

It is also a fact that there are people across the spectrum of drivers/riders that clearly do not fully appreciate the dangers of the vehicles they drive/ride.

Pointing that this applies to SUVs seems to be construed as a personal attack against every single SUV driver on the planet.

HRT: Where did I say SUVs should be taken off the road? Please enlighten me with a quote.

Where did I say that all older cars except classics should be removed from the road? Likewise supply a quote.

What I DID say was that all road users should be aware of the physical characteristics of other types of vehicles - braking distances, cornering, acceleration, blind spots etc. Apparently that equates to "ban all SUVs and other intimidating non-eco-friendly vehicles because everyone who owns one is a wanker" in SUVese and really gets people's back up, but no one infomed me - and I thought I was good at foreign languages!

OAB: at what point in my posts did I say that you personally were unaware of the dangers of SUVs, motorcycles, flying carpets or whatever? I've never seen you drive your SUV and, from what you say, if I ever did I probably wouldn't take more than a second's notice of you before removing you as a potential danger and forgetting about you and your SUV.

However, there are people out there driving 2 tons of SUV who don't drive with due consideration for the vehicle's mass and momentum or basic safety, an observation on my part that you have chosen to take as a personal attack on you that you feel you have to yet again defend yourself against.

Lou Girardin

7th February 2007, 05:49

Despite the bleatings of the 4x4 owners, the facts remain that;
the vast majority don't need, or use, 4x4 capability
there are multi seat conventional wagons available
4x4 are disproportionally more dangerous to their owners and others
our 4x4 fleet is old and polluting
people who buy cheap 4x4's don't/can't maintain them properly
All the rest is self-justification, just like the guy who wrote to the Herald singing the praises of his 4x4 that 'saved' his life. He got shot down quickly.

stanko

7th February 2007, 06:07

DEATH_INC.

7th February 2007, 06:19

The "I'm sick of having to defend my choice of vehicle" comments came out of the SUV owners' posts. Are some of you feeling so persecuted that any reference to the dangers of your chosen vehicle is seen as a personal attack?
Yes, in exactly the same way we have to defend our right to ride a bike, you get sick of being hassled because you refuse to drive a white tin box...... :finger:

DEATH_INC.

7th February 2007, 06:26

It is also a fact that there are people across the spectrum of drivers/riders that clearly do not fully appreciate the dangers of the vehicles they drive/ride.
Yep, point taken, but this applies to ALL vehicles, not just suv's. What do you think would happen to that cute little white town car when a falcon towing a 2 tonne boat mows it down? (or even without the boat for that matter). Do we see doco's on the dangers of vans even though any ambo can tell you horrific stories of mutilated legs etc, even in relatively minor crashes?
Sorry, but this is just the usual sensationalism and bitching and moaning that this country is getting widely known for.

Wolf

7th February 2007, 06:35

Yes, in exactly the same way we have to defend our right to ride a bike, you get sick of being hassled because you refuse to drive a white tin box...... :finger:

Do I? Oh, thank you so much for telling me what I get sick of. Could you please tell me what I am feeling today, O Great and Wondrous Expert.

Sorry, still not going to red rep you - I don't do that. Same as I don't resort to rude gestures (or smilies) or poking my tongue out and making "pfffft" noises to attempt to settle arguments.

Try taking your "everyone wants to take away my SUV" filter off some day.

Wolf

7th February 2007, 06:46

Yep, point taken, but this applies to ALL vehicles, not just suv's. What do you think would happen to that cute little white town car when a falcon towing a 2 tonne boat mows it down? (or even without the boat for that matter). Do we see doco's on the dangers of vans even though any ambo can tell you horrific stories of mutilated legs etc, even in relatively minor crashes?
No, but I'd be quite happy to. As I've said in other posts - all road users need to be educated in the dangers of all vehicles. You seem to have missed that, having seen the letters "SUV" and spun out into "they want to take my SUV away" mode.

Sorry, but this is just the usual sensationalism and bitching and moaning that this country is getting widely known for.
Funny, the same thing could be said about certain conspiracy theories of the "they're trying to take our .... away from us" variety...

Clockwork

7th February 2007, 08:15

Since when did I ask/expect anyone to defend their choice of vehicle?
Agreed.... you didn't (and I quoted OAB - not you) but I still felt it was necessary. This isn't the first anti-SUV thread started this week! (I know, this thread isn't anti-SUV it's pro safety docos)

It looks interesting from the preview - apparently only 15% of those bought in NZ are used for the purpose for which they were built, which means 85% of the bloody things have no right being on the roads endangering our lives
The tone of this thread is "Look, those self centred SUV drivers are putting us all at risk so that they can pose around in their pretentious, ego massaging, Remuera Tractors"

They don't but they at least look nice - especially if properly restored. Modern cars are arse - ugly, utilitarian, practically uniform and boring. As I said, the only reason I have a car is that it is useful for carrying things I cannot carry on a bike. Other than that I have no interest in cars except for the classic ones because they at least had style.
So if my SUV were prettier, that would excuse its other failings?

And who here said "all SUV drivers are..."? No one, yet a lot of the SUV drivers here seem to be reacting as if the words "some" or "many" equate to "all" and getting on their high horses.

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one..
Sorry, my mistake. I took the imbedded quote to be sarcasm and interpreted it as meaning exactly the opposite of what it says.

You may well believe that this doco is a genuine attempt to improve road saftey, you may even beleive that you will learn somthing useful from it, presonally I just see it as more...Ammo in the SUV war - From NZ researchers (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42888)

KLOWN

7th February 2007, 10:02

Despite the bleatings of the Motorcycle owners, the facts remain that;
the vast majority don't need, or use, Motorcycles capabilities
there are multi seat sidecars available
Motorcycle are disproportionally more dangerous to their owners and others
our Motorcycle fleet is new and exciting
people who buy cheap motorcycles don't/can't maintain them properly.

if you used motorcycles to thier abilities you would be breaking the law AND the bikes that are made for OFF ROAD or DUAL purpose DO get used OFF ROAD

people don't buy bike to cary people around

motorcycles aren't dangerous to other road uses just themselves

I bought a cheap motorcycle and maintained it.

pete376403

7th February 2007, 15:39

. now you can sit your license in a smart car and drive a bohemoth towing a horsefloat with no other need for training? You just have to watch the number of SUV's that jack knife at the tip, jetty and horse events every weekend to know this isnt smart.

Once a vehicle and trailer reach a GCW (gross combined weight) exceeding 4500KG an HT licence is required. And with the larger SUVs having a GVW of about 2.5 tonne, doesn't take much of a boat, dual horse float or caravan to put them over the limit. Are police doing licence checks on SUV/trailer combos that appear like they might exceed the limit?

KLOWN

7th February 2007, 19:43

Once a vehicle and trailer reach a GCW (gross combined weight) exceeding 4500KG an HT licence is required. And with the larger SUVs having a GVW of about 2.5 tonne, doesn't take much of a boat, dual horse float or caravan to put them over the limit. Are police doing licence checks on SUV/trailer combos that appear like they might exceed the limit?

good question. I wanna hear what some of the kb cops say on that one

Wolf

7th February 2007, 19:54

The tone of this thread is "Look, those self centred SUV drivers are putting us all at risk so that they can pose around in their pretentious, ego massaging, Remuera Tractors"
Not all SUV drivers, but there are those who do - I've encountered a large number of SUVs doing downright stupid and dangerous things and showing no signs whatsoever that the driver is an experienced driver, let alone one who regularly takes it off-road.

It is a fair comment to say that such drivers would be just as stupid in a car - but it is equally fair to say that they are all the more dangerous in a heavier vehicle and that there are those among them who have no real need to be driving one.

Frankly, I don't care if a person driving an SUV in a sensible and safe manner "require" it ot can "justify" it or not - if they're not a danger to anyone else and can handle the vehicle, they could drive a bus to work every day for all I care.

However, people who drive or ride dangerously are a danger to others. The bigger the vehicle, the more of a danger they are - momentum and how little room they leave for people to take evasive action - and if they also happen not to actually need a big vehicle to begin with, they are a needlessly increased danger.

So if my SUV were prettier, that would excuse its other failings?
Well, a classic 1960 Dodge SUV with whitewall tyres, huge front grille, over-sized fins at the rear, chrome-plated grease nipples and double-reverse overhead twin-cam door handles and I'd probably look at it and say "Fark! Niiiice!" But I probably wouldn't want to buy one any more than I'd want to buy an old Ford Prefect or a Heritage Harley - but I can still appreciate the style...

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one..
Sorry, my mistake. I took the imbedded quote to be sarcasm and interpreted it as meaning exactly the opposite of what it says.
You seem to have done more than that. You seem to have taken the logical exact opposite ("there are those who do drive them carelessly/dangerously and have no real justification to have them") and extended it to an absurd extreme ("All SUV drivers are careless/dangerous and none can justify having one").

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and I was pointing out that some SUV owners are dangerous idiots and that some people have no need for a 2.5 ton vehicle except to assuage their egos - not all, as you seem to have assumed I meant.

I had received a litany of responses from SUV drivers from which I gained a very strong impression that many of the SUV drivers on this forum believe that every SUV driver in the country is as safe, courteous, mindful of risks and needful of an SUV as they are; that no one has ever purchased and SUV for status value and no one has ever behaved dangerously in one or displayed an inability to control one safely.

The piece you quoted was a sarcastic response to those posts in general and oldguy's rant and rude gesture (from which I gathered he deemed me to be an eco-freak) in particular.

Clockwork

7th February 2007, 21:05

Wolf

7th February 2007, 21:18

So what your suggesting then is some sort of license whereby infringements or discurteous driving accumulate penalty points and the more penalty points you have the smaller or lighter the vehicle you are allowed to drive? Well, why didn't you just say so, just so long as the rules apply to everyone.... not just the SUV owners.
Much and all as I'd like to see some of the more obnoxious boy racers forced to drive a Fiat Bambino for the rest of their lives, I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

What I'd like to see is people properly educated in driving and the risks inherent in other vehicles as well as their own (such as "the blind spot on one of these is pretty much the entire street rear of the driver's door" or "you can't expect someone to stop that eighteen wheeler in that distance) and the licensing system needs to be reworked so that total muppets don't get to drive/ride anything, let alone a large V8 or and SUV.

Swoop

8th February 2007, 08:56

How about instead ..... we target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.
I think you have an excellent point here OAB. Worthy of it's own thread all by istelf.

KLOWN

8th February 2007, 20:32

pajero means wanker :rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

scumdog

8th February 2007, 20:39

This thread is Groundhog Day.... again.

Motu

8th February 2007, 20:42

pajero means wanker :rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's why I got a Pajero - I always wanted a car with my name on it.

avgas

8th February 2007, 20:56

I AM A BANANA!
drove twice today on NZ roads

KLOWN

8th February 2007, 21:07

Jantar

8th February 2007, 21:10

Once a vehicle and trailer reach a GCW (gross combined weight) exceeding 4500KG an HT licence is required. And with the larger SUVs having a GVW of about 2.5 tonne, doesn't take much of a boat, dual horse float or caravan to put them over the limit. Are police doing licence checks on SUV/trailer combos that appear like they might exceed the limit?
Yes, I have been weighed with my 4x4 and double horse float, and had to produce my licence. Fortunately I have classes 2 and 4, so I was OK. The cop did mention that I was over weight for my RUC, but I got a warning for that. :yes:

Motu

8th February 2007, 21:25

They used to target stockcar and horse racing meetings and catch them as they came out the gate.More for overloaded trailers than licences.

scumdog

8th February 2007, 21:32

Cobblers. SUV are built specifically as trendy, fashion statement lifestyle accessories...you're not suggesting a BMW X5 is designed to go off-road surely, with those tyres.:whocares:

Which brings the point: if mum gets a flat tyre on one of these vehicles and is alone AND can't get the AA who will change the tyre for her???

Finn

8th February 2007, 21:35

Which brings the point: if mum gets a flat tyre on one of these vehicles and is alone AND can't get the AA who will change the tyre for her???

BMW Service. 0800 269 737

scumdog

8th February 2007, 21:40

BMW Service. 0800 269 737

Do Austin Gypsys too eh?? Cooool!

Wolf

9th February 2007, 09:26

I was at work today so I only caught the last ten minutes. anyone care to give reviews on it? was it biased against 4x4 or was it perfectly balanced? (tui)

any interesting points or just a load of dribble?
I watched the doco and they could have covered some things a lot better - like after showing the poor visibility out the rear and the rear-view CCTV fitted on some, they mentioned cheaper alternatives for improving the view out the back - some of which I easily recognised but others were not so obvious. I think they could have devoted a bit more time to saying what cheap options were out there to improve rear visibility.

By default I tend to treat SUVs as trucks anyway and operate from the premise that if I can't see the driver's face in the rear view mirror they most likely can't see me so I usually position myself so I can be seen in the driver's-side mirror.

Here's hoping a lot of other drivers/riders out there take note of the visibility issue and position themselves better behind SUVs.

The dynamics of SUV crashes are a mite worrisome - all the more so, considering I've seen a lot of people in SUVs driving as badly as the two ex-Golf drivers they featured.

I would have liked to have seen bits of the previous two weeks of them driving around in their own cars for a better comparison of their driving styles - we have no idea of how safe they were in a Golf so we can't tell how much of their driving was just crap driving skills and how much was not being properly familiar with the SUV.

Some of the quoted stats were a bit ambiguous - "x% of accidents..." with no indication of what percentage of those were SUV, cars, trucks, vans or motorbikes.

Interesting to note that a Bentley has the same mass as a large SUV (albeit presumably with different handling characteristics ).

That greenie cycling around the place putting stickers on people's SUVs is just asking for a smack in the chops by doing it on public television, isn't he? I can imagine an SUV owner tuning in, seeing that bit and saying "Hey, that's my fucking SUV, so that's the bastard that did it!"

So yeah, it had some good bits and some bits I think could have been done better. They at least got opinions from both sides of the argument.

The emmisions argument was a bit sketchy - a couple of anti-diesel comments, a couple of rebuttals, no real stats on what percentage of vehicles on our roads - including cars, trucks, vans and the occasional motorcycle as well as SUVs - use diesel.

Some interesting comments on the emissions from Jap imports compared with NZ-new vehicles - across the board, not just diesel.

Any of the SUV drivers here see it? What did you think?

placidfemme

9th February 2007, 09:34

Watched this last night, and it was really shocking to see how dangerous those 4x4's are to thier own drivers and exspecially OTHER drivers and pedestrians. Also shocked me that they are exempt from new import laws too... thats really bad and I don't see the point in the exemption.

Personally would never own on, and now after watching that I'll be 100 times more careful when anywhere near one of them.

pixc

9th February 2007, 09:50

I dont understand why 'townies' who dont go out 4 wheel driving, who dont own a boat or anything else to tow, own an SUV..as for roo-bars..what a joke. Should be banned unless you use the vehicle for hunting/farming.

SUVs drivers should go through the same licensing systems as a truck.

People under 20 should only be allowed to drive small low powered cars unless they have a special permit.

Was funny when the lady said she couldnt see anything behind her vehicle in the driveway..only to step out and see 20 kids behind her.

Marmoot

9th February 2007, 10:13

Nasty

9th February 2007, 10:14

I was at work today so I only caught the last ten minutes. anyone care to give reviews on it? was it biased against 4x4 or was it perfectly balanced? (tui)

any interesting points or just a load of dribble?

I saw bits of it now whole thing .. and heard other reviews .. some say totally biased against .. others say reasonble .. I now have a friend who wants one .... (god knows why) ...

I have one .. I know its short commings ... but I do take it off road ... and I also have a mild disability so getting in and out is easier.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 10:35

and I also have a mild disability so getting in and out is easier.
That I can well understand. Years ago I injured my back and I found getting into and out of my girlfriend's car a literal pain for a few weeks.

At the time my girlfriend was looking at getting herself an SUV and I found getting into and out of the ones we test drove to be considerably easier than trying to lower myself into, or haul myself up from, a normal car seat.

unhingedlizard

9th February 2007, 10:40

yep, ban all 4wds that dont get used off road. And all dual adventure bikes that dont. and all sports bikes that can do over 100kph, that is the speed limit after all. And all people with a tow bar that doesnt get used more than three times a month (banging your shin on those really stings). and we should also ban............

You do realise the view out the back of a lot of modern cars with high boots is just as bad as a 4wd? Maximas and the like.

Guns dont kill people, crap drivers driving any car do.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 10:47

Watched the program last night.
What a load of propaganda.

It's 4WD now.
But, what's next? Bikes?
Then sports cars?
Then working vans?

The propaganda will likely go on until everyone drives a 4-door prius with hybrid engine.
Funny, I don't recall the narrator advocating the banning of SUVs.

Frankly, if I were doing an anti-SUV propaganda broadcast, I would have kept loaning out SUVs to Golf drivers until I found a couple who didn't have so much positive things to say about them - the bloke had a great time and, although he found a few minuses, quite liked it; the woman was most impressed with it.

KLOWN

9th February 2007, 10:49

Guns dont kill people, crap drivers driving any car do.

I think thier point is, crap driver in 4x4 do MORE damage then crap drivers in cars

Wolf

9th February 2007, 11:05

I think thier point is, crap driver in 4x4 do MORE damage then crap drivers in cars
Which means: ban crap drivers!

We do need a revamp of the licencing laws here - for all that people go on about "Asian drivers", the Japs actually have a far stricter licensing system than we do - it takes ages, costs heaps and requires a lot of training and testing. They don't just give licences away like our system does.

Guitana

9th February 2007, 11:43

Excuse me but what a load of fucken shit!!!
I watched that crap last night and the only conclusion I drew about 4Wds is that the Wankers that are buying them try to drive them like a car and get some sort of power trip out of it!!!!!!
I've driven 4WDs since I was 14 on the farm and never had a problem. these soft cocks want to get real!!!!
The trucks are heavier than a car and harder to stop under braking so drive them accordingly!!!
The handling is not set up so soccer mum can drive it like a ferrari after a few cocktails!! They dont handle like a car!!
If your not using it offroad you dont need Bullbars they're just for wank value in the city, but have a use in the bush!!!
If you buy a 4WD you must respect it for what it is as for not seeing behind you! fuck I dont have a problem if I cant see i get out and check especially off road get real Inside NZ stop ya whinging next they'll be banning masturbation cos it causes repettitive overuse syndrome or OOs!!
Get hard or go home!! Stop blaming the vehicles and look at the fucktards driving them it's not the 4WD that kills ya its the nut sack behind the steering wheel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuf said!!

Buddha#81

9th February 2007, 11:53

Ive got a company ute and its 4WD Im going to ask for danger money.......It make work more interesting in that I could die at any time.:gob:

Marmoot

9th February 2007, 12:02

Funny, I don't recall the narrator advocating the banning of SUVs.

Frankly, if I were doing an anti-SUV propaganda broadcast, I would have kept loaning out SUVs to Golf drivers until I found a couple who didn't have so much positive things to say about them - the bloke had a great time and, although he found a few minuses, quite liked it; the woman was most impressed with it.

They can't advocate banning SuV, since media is "supposed to be unbiased".
The program is in opinion-shaping mode, and thus you see how many percentage of it is spent on highlighting the crash danger and visibility, while only a few seconds spent on off-road and good driveability part (supposedly to "balance the views").
As with the comments, most of the comments circle around "if i crash my family would be safe" and only 1 or 2 comments goes to "easy to carry shoppings, etc".

Don't get me wrong. I hate them urban SUVs.
But stooping to hitting below the belt with biased media programme is just wrong. Why? Because if this goes on, one day they'll run a programme about bikes and we'll be in deep kimchi.

TV doco at it's lowest, I reckon.

Finn

9th February 2007, 12:09

SUV's are much safer than cars. I was coming home last night after dropping something off and was ripping down a side street at about 70 when a cat decided to cross in front of my path. If I was in the car I probably would have had to brake and swerve to avoid a possible dent but instead I even managed to turn in the direction of the moggie cause it almost got away.

KDONK KDONK. Excellent.

pete376403

9th February 2007, 12:17

Guitana

9th February 2007, 12:19

Chalk one up for Finn way to go you cat slayer!!!!!!!!!

Finn

9th February 2007, 12:20

The segment showing the danger of an SUV t-boning a car, where the car drivers head is impacted by the SUV bull-bar / bonnet - isn't that exactly how Possum Bourne was killed? (IIRC Bournes Subaru was hit by a Jeep Cherokee)

This is what I'm saying. SUV's are safe. The driver basically walked away from the crash. Who cares about all the other morons on the road? They cross our paths - tough shit. Possum was hardly on a Sunday drive either.

vifferman

9th February 2007, 12:41

Mostly everyone on this thread is talking shit, so I may as well wade in with my bit.
I meant to watch that "mock-you-mentalry", but forgot it was on. I think we watched summat more important and informative, like "Grey's Anatomy".
I used to own a Pajero. We bought it when we lived in Chch. The company I worked for had an Isuzu Troop(carr)ier, and we took our Subie skiing one day, and the Trooper the next. We thought, "WOw! This is kewl; we can see over the other cars! The kids can sit in the back to put their boots on! We can picnic in the boot!" etc etc.
So, we bought the Pajero, and had it a few years, selling it only when we'd been in D'Auckland a couple of years and it seemed irrelevant. But it was IDEAL for our use. It meant that my mother or the in-laws could come and stay with us, and we could all pile into one car. It meant we could go skiing and not get stuck in deep snow. It meant I could tow big trailers full of firewood for our polluting, wood-burning fireplace. It meant I could volunteer to be a school trip helper and carry heaps of screaming kids and all their crap.
It meant that when some f-tard drove into the back of it when my wife was backing out, it only damaged the rubber overrider on the back bumper, and totally demolished the side of their car.

But we were glad to see the back of it. I thought it was about to expire, so we sold it. Now bugger me if the bastid isn't back again. Somebody up our street has ended up with it, and it's still going.

I like driving big 4WDs. On our recent trip to the Sultantate of Kalifornicatia we hired one. I was hoping it would be a HUGE behemoth, but it turned out to be only a medium-sized beast - a Jeep Laredo or somesuch. I've also driven the Ford Exploder, Prados (great car!), Rnage Rover, and many Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, Land Pillagers, Land Rapists, etc. I even had the good fortune to be present when a near-new HiLux 4WD was totalled. It did the really kewl "sideways roll, bounce up in the air, then go end-over-end for a few hundred metres down the hill." (I felt swizzed though, because unlike TV, it didn't explode into flames.) :(

But I like driving small cars too. We have three: two Peugeot and a Fiat Punto. On a long trip, I'd rather be in summat huge - it's less fun, but less fatiguing.

So what.

KLOWN

9th February 2007, 12:48

WTF ????? did any of you watch the programme???? I didn't but what i was told from my flat mate was...

-4x4 are dangerous to OTHER people
-4x4 shouldn't be used as remuera tractors
-4x4 play an excellent role in farm, off road, towing etc JUST not in the CBD
-REMUERA house wives don't know not to drive it like a car just like MOST people who have them in the CBD

EVEN the HEAD of the 4x4 club said the shouldn't be allowed in the CBD

no one was ragging on 4x4 used properly or sensibly ONLY the fucktards that think they are cars and use them in the CBD

Wolf

9th February 2007, 12:56

Stop blaming the vehicles and look at the fucktards driving them it's not the 4WD that kills ya its the nut sack behind the steering wheel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuf said!!
And some of those nut sacks are not necessarily driving an SUV. Obviously not all accidents involving SUVs are the SUV driver's fault but the SUV is likely to cause more damage to the other vehicle owing to its mass, height, rigidity etc so NZ drivers/riders need to sharpen up their act and learn to treat all vehicles with respect, especially SUVs, trucks, buses etc, and not expect them to brake/handle like cars.

What we need here in NZ is an affordable version of the Defensive Driving course and integrate it into the licensing system - fail that, you fail your licence. Quite simple.

Regrettably, our government is more interested in lucre than road safety so they're happy with the staus quo which involves people acting like cocks in their vehicles and having serious accidents for which they can be fined.

I can see good arguments for a separate licence for SUVs, with some stringent testing, which would mean the likes of OAB, yourself and others would fly through the licensing process (if you haven't already got an HT licence to prove you can handle a lot more than a "little" SUV) and any "soccer mums" who try to drive an SUV like it's a Honda City will simply fail their licence test.

However, I would not like such licensing changes to be made into yet another revenue-gathering exercise.

From what the head of the NZ 4WD association said on the doco, I suspect he'd happily see an additional licence brought in to keep wankers out of 4WDs and thereby limit 4WDs to those who can use them properly - he seemed to see no point in many city folk having them.

My ex-boss has an old bus fitted out as a mobile home for taking his family on touring holidays. Why doesn't everyone have a converted bus or something similar instead of a camper van? Because in order to drive said converted bus, you need an HT licence. In order to have a large and luxurious camping vehicle that suits his needs/wants, he had to take appropriate training and pass a test for that class of vehicle. Most would decide they don't really need a bus-sized campervan enough to warrant going through the licensing process.

Do the same or similar for SUVs and you'd probably find a large number of people would suddenly decide they don't need an SUV that much and those who do need one would mostly pass the test. Bye-bye to "nut sacks" in SUVs...

Squeak the Rat

9th February 2007, 12:57

I often let cars into the crawling slug of auckland traffic from side streets. Except 4wd townies. If your going to drive a vehicle that restricts my view just cause u want to take grandma camping then you can go behind..

Crisis management

9th February 2007, 12:58

WTF ????? did any of you watch the programme???? I didn't but what i was told from my flat mate was...

Look, it's simple, we're here for the arguement not to debate the truth....

If it helps, this usually only lasts a day or two then the feral mob and safety nazis will find something else.

Wait till after the Westpac ride...."people shouldn't travel so close together....he didn't indicate etc. etc."

I've already taken the Isuzu for a lap past the school so now its off for a bike ride now.... in jandals.

mstriumph

9th February 2007, 12:58

my grandmother wasn't camp ----- but i get your drift :dodge:

Citroenjunkie

9th February 2007, 13:03

Come on Finn, you know as well as I do there are people all throughout the world with nothing better to do then bitch about pointless issues. Threads like this just tend to bring them out of the woodwork.

The issue is far from pointless! I makes me furious that those selfish bastards can endanger the lives of my children and millions of others "to keep their inbred, webtoed offspring from harm"! They don't give a shit that their vehicle of choice is massively more likely to maim, harm and kill! The only thing that matters is their brood. We all matter! equally!

I think all of the superior, inconsiderate bastards should be made to use bicycles with sidecars to shuffle their offspring from ballet to Judo to art classes. Or even better a 50cc scooter, and a motorway! Let them get barreled by a few trucks and busses and then perhaps they will get to understand how we feel as they cruise past oblivious...... mutter, mutter, mutter

Finn

9th February 2007, 13:06

WTF ????? did any of you watch the programme???? I didn't but what i was told from my flat mate was...

It's only a documentary and a NZ one at that. You little islanders have really got your tits in a tangle over big cars eh? What a bunch narrow minded poofs.

I think the most dangerous thing on NZ roads are kiwi's. Can't drive for shit no matter what wheel they're behind.

Guitana

9th February 2007, 13:07

The issue is far from pointless! I makes me furious that those selfish bastards can endanger the lives of my children and millions of others "to keep their inbred, webtoed offspring from harm"! They don't give a shit that their vehicle of choice is massively more likely to maim, harm and kill! The only thing that matters is their brood. We all matter! equally!

I think all of the superior, inconsiderate bastards should be made to use bicycles with sidecars to shuffle their offspring from ballet to Judo to art classes. Or even better a 50cc scooter, and a motorway! Let them get barreled by a few trucks and busses and then perhaps they will get to understand how we feel as they cruise past oblivious...... mutter, mutter, mutter

What about all the heavy trucks that are on the roads now they seem to drive them like sports cars too but you don't see propaganda programmes about them now do we??

onearmedbandit

9th February 2007, 13:11

Yup, as I said it's a pointless issue. There is no law to restrict me from buying and driving my 4x4 in town (how about this one too, my Japanese wife drives it during the day when I'm at work, oh yeah, an 'asian' driving a 2.5 tonne 4x4!! - btw, she's a better driver than 90% of the idiots that populate our roads in their friendly little sedans) so I'll carry on as I am.

Marmoot

9th February 2007, 13:14

Seems the phrase "I'd rather be hit by a 4WD than a truck" is appropriate for the discussion?

vifferman

9th February 2007, 13:15

"There should be a law against it."

That's what's wrong with the country - too many fucking bureaucrats, and too many laws and regulations. They haven't made the country safer - just cuntier.

Never mind; one day, when I'm God ("All hail Vifferman the Mental!") I'll abolish most of the laws, rules and regulations. Commonsense and responsibility will rule.
The bureaucrats will be first up against the wall. Then the politicians, real-estate agents and other parasites, whingers, busy-bodies and SafetyNazis, people who say "There should be a law against it", queue-jumpers, arseholes who dump their junk in other people's laps, the intolerant, people who don't drink beer ...

All Hail Vifferman the Merciless!!

Edbear

9th February 2007, 13:16

What we need here in NZ is an affordable version of the Defensive Driving course and integrate it into the licensing system - fail that, you fail your licence. Quite simple...

I completely agree! Maybe it could be integrated into the school curriculum?
Perhaps we could try writing to the Minister....?

Unfortunately it's also the long term fix as most of the incompetents on our roads are full grown adults! I can't believe the number of white males in their 20's and 30's I see who are absolutely dangerous in their incompetence! Believe me speeding is not the problem up here as they are inevitably travelling about 20km/h or more under the limit! ie: 70-80km/h. I'm on Rodney roads every day and it is almost inevitably this age group both male and female who simply cannot drive!

Don't want to be biased either, but I rarely see an Asian driver who doesn't seem absolutely petrified and drives as though they are about to die! Corners seem to scare them silly! Every time I pass them they're leaning forward and holding on to the steering wheel like grim death! Again, at no more than 70-80km/h!

Most older drivers on the open road are slow but not incompetent. (Except in town where the elderly are both slow and dangerous!)

Finn

9th February 2007, 13:24

The issue is far from pointless! I makes me furious that those selfish bastards can endanger the lives of my children and millions of others "to keep their inbred, webtoed offspring from harm"! They don't give a shit that their vehicle of choice is massively more likely to maim, harm and kill! The only thing that matters is their brood. We all matter! equally!

I think all of the superior, inconsiderate bastards should be made to use bicycles with sidecars to shuffle their offspring from ballet to Judo to art classes. Or even better a 50cc scooter, and a motorway! Let them get barreled by a few trucks and busses and then perhaps they will get to understand how we feel as they cruise past oblivious...... mutter, mutter, mutter

You're an idiot. You talk as if there's a bunch of us driving around in Mad Max style vehicles with anti aircraft guns mounted on the back, driving around shooting and raping innocent people. I've been driving SUV's for over 14 years now and I've never had an accident although I've tried to cause a few though.

Stop being bitter about people that have the money to drive nice big cars. Get off your lazy arse and try to do something with your life so your kids don't end up like you.

Motu

9th February 2007, 13:26

JUST not in the CBD
-

When we needed a 6 seater we had a nice yellow XC Falcon wagon - it was bloody huge! We used to look out for ''Falcon'' parking spaces,it was just too long to swing into underground car parks without another stab at it.My 7 seater Pajero is shorter,has a shorter wheelbase and is much easier to park.I've got no problem in the CBD with it,but used to dread the CBD in the Coon.

Crisis management

9th February 2007, 13:39

You talk as if there's a bunch of us driving around in Mad Max style vehicles with anti aircraft guns mounted on the back, driving around shooting and raping innocent people.

Actually, I've always had this thought in the back of my mind after 10 minutes in the rush hour. :angry:

A nice clean kill this time Finn, I think you scored 7.8 for the stalking, 8.5 for ruthlessness and 9.4 for the disembowelment. :Punk:

Wolf

9th February 2007, 13:41

my Japanese wife drives it during the day when I'm at work, oh yeah, an 'asian' driving a 2.5 tonne 4x4!! - btw, she's a better driver than 90% of the idiots that populate our roads in their friendly little sedans)
Did she get her licence in Japan? According to a Japanese friend, they have a school that they have to attend and graduate before they're allowed to sit their driving test and they have to pass the driving test to get a licence. They drive on the left, like us, so they're not confused by the whole left-right thing - about the only things they're not used to are a few weird little rules and uncontrolled intersections/roundabouts (apparently there are no such things in Japan) - certainly less of a learning curve than switching from right-hand side to left hand side.

You should hear my Japanese friend on the topic of Chinese drivers...

Guitana

9th February 2007, 13:47

You're an idiot. You talk as if there's a bunch of us driving around in Mad Max style vehicles with anti aircraft guns mounted on the back, driving around shooting and raping innocent people. I've been driving SUV's for over 14 years now and I've never had an accident although I've tried to cause a few though.

Stop being bitter about people that have the money to drive nice big cars. Get off your lazy arse and try to do something with your life so your kids don't end up like you.

Yeah I just got a 50 cal machine gun mounted out the sun roof and rockets in the side panels. But in Madmax it was all those fucken psycho's on modified kawasakis that were causing all the greif!!!!!!

vifferman

9th February 2007, 13:48

When we needed a 6 seater we had a nice yellow XC Falcon wagon - it was bloody huge! We used to look out for ''Falcon'' parking spaces,it was just too long to swing into underground car parks without another stab at it.My 7 seater Pajero is shorter,has a shorter wheelbase and is much easier to park.I've got no problem in the CBD with it,but used to dread the CBD in the Coon.
My sympathies, Dude!
I had fun in Murka trying to park the GreatWhiteWhale in the hotel basement - it was strangely only designed for small, manouevrable vehicles. To fit the Whale in, I had to drive down to the bottom-most level, do a 7 or 20 point turn to get it facing the other way, then drive up two levels, then back it in (6 or 13 point turn) into the park.

PuddingPimp (#2 Son, sitting in the shotgun seat) kept saying, "Watch out for that cliff/bank/post, Dad! This thing is wider than you think!"
Eventually I managed to actually bounce it off a kerb on a right-hand corner. A few minutes later, I nearly ripped the right-hand mirror off on a lamp-post because I couldn't see on that side due to his waving-about arms...
Heh... got that last one on video.
Scene: car/truck veers off road, into a huge puddle/pond. Huge cloud of steam goes up (it was deeper'n I thought...)
WifeWoman: "Now you done it! You've broken the engine! Lookitallthatsmoke!!
Vifferman: "It's just steam from the hot exhaust."
[Car/Truck/Whale backs up for photo-op]
Clunk.
PuddingPimp: "Now you've done it. I told you it was wider than it looked!"
WifeWoman: "Now you've done it! You've broken it!"
Vifferman: "Psshaw!! It's just folded up. Get your pharking arm outta the way, then maybe I can see where I'm backing!"

We also got on video the imbecile/stoned/crazed loon veering at speed onto the freeway, across 4-lanes of traffic in front of me, then jerking the steering wheel to the right narrowly avoiding crashing into the barrier, before weaving off into the distance:
Vifferman: "Holy fucking shit!!"

BTW - the "imbecile/stoned/crazed loon veering at speed onto the freeway" was driving some compact sort of car. We were the ones driving the oversized SUV.

BTW(II): we saw many people towing huge SUVs with even huger RVs, on their way to/back from vacation. We even saw one ginormous SUV towing a ginormous RV. :yes:

Give me gun-crazed lunamatic Murkns any day. No roundabouts, few traffic lights, yet almost everybody drives as if they might get shot if they drive like an arsehole.
Wonder why...

onearmedbandit

9th February 2007, 14:07

Did she get her licence in Japan?

Yes she did. And your friend is correct.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 15:19

And your friend is correct.
I had no reason to disbelieve.

KLOWN

9th February 2007, 21:33

The only thing that matters is their brood. We all matter! equally!

sorry, i diisagree here, to me I matter most and that is everyones point of view except MAYBE if you have kids then they matter most(to you)

9th February 2007, 21:56

I thought that show was a comedy.
How two crap drivers were introduced to SUV driving and became worse drivers.
Especially the 4x4 owners and the Crash test Investigator who said they bought theirs so that their family would be safe when they crash into another vehicle. Selfish idiots. But idiots none the less. Their assumption for this flawed logic is that they will conveniently only crash into a bike/pedestrian or a rusty 1960s Fiat Bambina. Take a look at what's on our roads- not many of any of those small objects. Nope, it's most likely now that they will self-destruct into another heavy, solid 4x4 without crumple zones, inflicting about triple the damage on both sets of occupants.
They wont be so smug when petrol hits $2 a litre.. $2.50.. $3.00. Which is a handy number, since that will be about the selling price of all second hand urban SUV/4x4s

scumdog

9th February 2007, 22:07

Give me gun-crazed lunamatic Murkns any day. No roundabouts, few traffic lights, yet almost everybody drives as if they might get shot if they drive like an arsehole.
Wonder why...

True, had less problems in a 4-week 10,000km trip in the US than a cruise through Dorkland....

Clockwork

10th February 2007, 07:19

The issue is far from pointless! I makes me furious that those selfish bastards can endanger the lives of my children and millions of others "to keep their inbred, webtoed offspring from harm"! They don't give a shit that their vehicle of choice is massively more likely to maim, harm and kill! The only thing that matters is their brood. We all matter! equally!

I think all of the superior, inconsiderate bastards should be made to use bicycles with sidecars to shuffle their offspring from ballet to Judo to art classes. Or even better a 50cc scooter, and a motorway! Let them get barreled by a few trucks and busses and then perhaps they will get to understand how we feel as they cruise past oblivious...... mutter, mutter, mutter :Oi::nono: :nono: :nono: .:crybaby: :crybaby: :Playnice: :Pokey:

Yep, this thread ended up pretty much where I thought it would.

See what you've started, Wolf? :yes:

avgas

10th February 2007, 07:55

This whole thing is being impractical and silly.
Yes SUV's are bad, but a fuck-load else that has been round for more than any of us is still round.
I have no problem for SUV's, because it means that saftey factors will rule them off the road as soon as people protest enough (two stokes anyone). And after a high profile case - it will happen (look at dog laws).
But i still have major issues with bull bars - as these are illegal in my books, as it is an object that could cause harm (acc) on the external of a vehicle (vtnz). There is no impact zone on a bull bar - its there to put more energy into a target, then the vehicle it protects. So as for finns comment earlier - if you drive with a bull bar - you drive with a weapon designed to main and kill.