I hit a car today....need opinions

[KATWYN]

Who's in the right and whos in the wrong.......

Heres the scenario.

At a stop sign sitting behind said car (on my bike). I always leave a bit of room in front....

I wanted to turn left so I was Looking to my right at traffic coming down the hill......heaps of time to go....for me AND said car in front of me

Said car takes off to go, then obviously changes their mind....then brakes.... ....Katwyn never saw that part

I had already taken off (carrying on looking to my right),all of a sudden a big black piece of shit is in front on me :shit: so instead of hitting its boot I swerved to the right side swiping the back and rear door panels (but not the boot)...but managed to stay upright

I said to the driver "Why did'nt you go then?" they said there was traffic coming...they say the crash was my fault

Any traffic cops have any thoughts on this?

[Mole_C]

Happened to my mum and my mate. Sadly the other driver may be an idiot but your still at fault :shit: Sorry.

[Karma]

I'm not a traffic cop, but it's your fault.

Hit anyone from behind, unless they are braking dangerously, and it's your fault.

[Toaster]

As far as I am aware, there is no defence for hitting another vehicle that makes a sudden stop in front of ya. It is a requirement all drivers/rider must be able to stop short of any sudden stop by a vehicle in front.

[mstriumph]

if it were aus. t'would be your 'fault' :no: sorry

are you OK? ..... bike OK? - speak or we'll worry!

[The_Dover]

in my opinion it's a bad idea to hit cars.

it can hurt.

[kiwifruit]

same thing happened to me.
i was in the car in front.
the car that hit me was a police officer, in uniform, in his private car.
he bought me a new car.

[KATWYN]

Hit anyone from behind, unless they are braking dangerously, and it's your fault.

The thing is I never hit them from behind....I ended up side swiping em. I spose i'm being a bush lawyer.

[KATWYN]

if it were aus. t'would be your 'fault' :no: sorry

are you OK? ..... bike OK? - speak or we'll worry!

Cheer MS, i'm fine, bikes fine. Cars not as fine as it was prior to
me engaging with it - not too bad tho.

The main thing is I can still ride with the gals on Saturday!

[Colapop]

After getting a letter from the insurance company (the twat that pulled infront of me) today accusing me of the accident I had - never admit any liability at all. Even if you were at fault. That is from the insurance company (his). Too bad if they're being a dick and trying f*ck you over and get you to pay. You are not legally obliged to give them any information at all.

DO NOT GIVE ANY INDICATION OF LIABILITY.
Regardless of blame - the insurance companies will fight it out.

[Karma]

The thing is I never hit them from behind....I ended up side swiping em. I spose i'm being a bush lawyer.


Then it's an illegal overtaking maneauver.

[crashe]

Sorry, but its your fault...... you hit the other car from behind.

Hope there wasn't too much damage done to the other car.
If its alot let your insurance company deal with it all.

Were any cops involved inthis incident....?
If yes you may end up with a wee fine as well.
If no.... goodie...... insurance company will take your access and pay to fix the other car.

This happened to me once when I was driving me old car..... a dude in a car hit me from behind at Greenlane motorway on-ramp. He too thought I had moved on.... but I had to stop suddenly as a car was speeding throu the round-a-bout... and I didnt want to be hit side on.

A shunt from behind can cause whiplash to the person in front.

Never assume the person in front has gone unless you make absolutely sure they have gone.




EDIT: errrrrr just reread what you wrote.
You were on your bike....
again you are technically at fault...
In my bin last year I clipped the edge of the right rear of the car...... repair damage to the car was $2,124 ...... so expect a high bill.

The cops told me technically cos I was behind the car I was at fault..... but recieved no charge against me.

[Patrick]

Wot they all sed... You naughty, Katwyn...:spanking:

[avgas]

After getting a letter from the insurance company (the twat that pulled infront of me) today accusing me of the accident I had - never admit any liability at all. Even if you were at fault. That is from the insurance company (his). Too bad if they're being a dick and trying f*ck you over and get you to pay. You are not legally obliged to give them any information at all.

DO NOT GIVE ANY INDICATION OF LIABILITY.
Regardless of blame - the insurance companies will fight it out.
Yeh had the same guy that admitted at the scene to the cops, then said it was my fault when it came to the insurance. Insurance company rung up and hassled me to try and get me to admit fault. Told them to get fucked over the phone - then said if i didnt get my money soon i was gonna sue. They then asked for evidence as to why their client wasnt in the right - i told them that he got charged with dangerous driving for the matter and they shut up quick.

[Charlie]

Sorry to hear that KATWYN; hope you and the bike are ok!
Unfortunatly I agree with everyone on this that you are at fault.
Hope it all works out!

[crashe]

I'm not a traffic cop, but it's your fault.

Hit anyone from behind, unless they are braking dangerously, and it's your fault.

Nup mate...... see my above post......
The woman driving ahead of me that I clipped........
slowed down, speed up and then slamed on her brakes within seconds..... within 3 foot of a ped crossing....... I was still technically at fault.....

if behind......... you are in the wrong......

And I did everything possible to not hit the car.

[Mole_C]

Nup mate...... see my above post......
The woman driving ahead of me that I clipped........
slowed down, speed up and then slamed on her brakes within seconds..... within 3 foot of a ped crossing....... I was still technically at fault.....

if behind......... you are in the wrong......

And I did everything possible to not hit the car.

Think he means if there braking to try and knock you off or ripping a handie or something... in which case i don't know who would be at fault.

[festus]

Been there, done that (twice) and both times on a bike, but also managed to stay on both times. Years apart too, so cannot explain it.

Hate it when drivers do that, they take off then brake while you are looking right, but I was in the wrong both times and had to pay damages although minor...........

[stunz]

Surprisingly, it happened to me once before. No damage or injury but the non english speaking driver of other vehicle adamant that the police should attend. (through stuttered translation by her poor 9 or 10 yr old son in the car with her) Happy to oblige luv and called the local constabulary for her.

They duly showed up, listened to my reasoned explanation of what happened then her translated rantings and arm wavings and told me to be on my way. Boy was she spitting tacks that I wasn't going to be handcuffed and carted off in the back of the paddy wagon.

The difference here though is she pulled out onto the road, I took her recently vacated space at the edge of the road, then she decided to reverse back again...

[Aitch]

Rode Code says you have to leave sufficient space between you and the vehicle in front to allow you to stop without hitting it. Bad luck.

[Lucy]

Put yourself in their place. For example, if you were about to go when you saw a gap, but a) stalled b) had a wasp fly in your helmet, c) felt a cramp in your leg/heart/brain/whatever, and decided not to go, but wait for the next gap. Would you be understanding of someone driving in to the back of you?

[gijoe1313]

Ahh poopies ... :no: glad to hear you are okay and I guess it's only a bit of money to sort out, better than sorting it out on a hospital bed! Imagine the situation in reverse...you going off, pulling hard to stop (due to engine or whatever else difficulties) and the cage (or gah, something bigger) "nicking" you in the side :sick:

This happened to me, but fortunately no harm - no foul! Your case however is what everyone else has said :doh:

Chin up and always consider things could have been a lot worse! (Small comfort as it may be..)

[Fub@r]

Think we all need to take a bit more caution on the roads lately......... I think the cagers are suffering from sunstroke.

I've had so many near misses in the last week with dipshit cagers, worst one was today where I had a full lockup lanesplitting the north western because this git chnaged lanes without looking or any indication

[DUCATI*HARD]

if he had crossed the line at the intersection and then stopped you might have a chance.i had hit a car from behind but he had stopped two metres or so after taking off from the stop lines,he accepted he was in the wrong and paid for my car to be fixed.also if he was going and you went to go it must have been clear???never accept liability.

[apteryx_haasti]

Who's in the right and whos in the wrong.......

Heres the scenario.

At a stop sign sitting behind said car...

First of all, sorry to hear about your accident - whether it's your fault or not, accidents are never good.

I agree that you're probably at fault, but I'd add that as well as the hitting them from behind thing, there's also the fact that you were at a stop sign in a line of traffic, therefore, even if the car in front of you goes, you still have to come to a complete stop until the way is clear once you get to the front of the queue. Unlike at a give way, where you can go without coming to a stop if the way is clear.

Therefore, even if the car in front was turning the other way from you, unless there is a separate lane for your turn (or space for you to be level with the other car at the stop sign line) then you still have to stop completely before proceeding through the stop sign.

That's my understanding anyway...

Hope it doesn't turn out too expensive for you (or your insurance, at least!)

[KATWYN]

Ok *sigh* general consensus of this thread - I was at fault. :innocent:

Mental note.....as crashe said, I will never assume a car has gone...when it
"goes"...people change their minds -for reasons unbeknown to the vehicle behind (i.e., in this case
me on my bike)

Thanks guys and gals

[Colapop]

Regardless of whether it was your fault or not - NEVER ADMIT LIABILITY. That sounds like a real suck arse dishonest thing to do, but you could end up paying much more than you need to.

[Hitcher]

It's your fault.

[Patrick]

Think he means if there braking to try and knock you off or ripping a handie or something... in which case i don't know who would be at fault.

The one doing the handie....Careless Use...

Deliberately trying to knock you off? Dangerous Driving, or "Lucky..." Depends on how you take the comment...!!!

[KATWYN]

EDIT: errrrrr just reread what you wrote.
You were on your bike....
.

Yup. and still managed to stay upright. Not skill, just luck.

[bane]

It's your fault.

stated with maximum feeling and understanding of course... but he's not wrong...

[imdying]

....Katwyn never saw that partKatwyn should look before she leaps next time or the next time she might be dead.

[imdying]

Hit anyone from behind, unless they are braking dangerously, and it's your fault.Nearly! Only time it's not your fault is if they come in front of you and slam the brakes on (say either changing lanes in front of you, or they pull out of a driveway in front of you).

[KATWYN]

Katwyn should look before she leaps next time or the next time she might be dead.

It twas only a teeny tiny lil crash...and from this experience I have learnt much.

[scracha]

Katwyn. It's a lesson we get taught during basic training (CBT) back in the $hithole that is the UK. NEVER start a turn or manouvere whilst looking in another direction. For a left turn at a junction, check right, check left, check right again and then start moving off and look where you're going (basically you check both directions twice).

The amount of peeps I see pulling out onto roundabouts looking to their right is amazing. I mean, by the time you're actually on the roundabout there's not hellish much you can do if another vehicle magically appears from nowhere.

This $hit happens to most of us BTW. At least it wasn't a 2 week old car you hit :innocent:

[Karma]

Nearly! Only time it's not your fault is if they come in front of you and slam the brakes on (say either changing lanes in front of you, or they pull out of a driveway in front of you).

Yeh, that was the braking dangerously part... some courts can be funny about that even.

Mate of mine a while back was driving a Volvo along a dual carrageway in the UK at about 70mph (120ish kph) when a truck pulled out of a side road onto the lane he was in, and he had nowhere to go but into the back of him... came out alive which was good, but the insurance company decided to be a cock about it and wouldn't pay out, saying that as he hit the truck from behind he was at fault.

[KATWYN]

, saying that as he hit the truck from behind he was at fault.

Even though it seems like a crock, hitting someone from behind you are at fault -I spose if the law was the other way around, (i.e., people braking in front of you are at fault) there would be a lot of vehicles "gunning" it in what should be a braking situation.

What I learnt was that up until yesterday I was sure I was a really defensive safe motorcyclist...I need to re-evaluate

[Karma]

generally yes, but there are always exceptions to the rule. If I'm doing 50kph in a 50kph zone, and with 2 metres to spare someone pulls out in front of me, I've got no chance of stopping, so although I may hit them from behind, it's their fault.

[Jimmy B]

Although very very unlikely it is possible that the Driver you hit could have been in breach of their license conditions eg. driving while disqualified or the vehicle may not have a current warrant or rego, bit of a stretch but these are the only circumstances that I can think of that would give you some grounds to defend. Leave it to the insurance guys

[tipper]

there's also the fact that you were at a stop sign in a line of traffic, therefore, even if the car in front of you goes, you still have to come to a complete stop until the way is clear once you get to the front of the queue. Unlike at a give way, where you can go without coming to a stop if the way is clear.

Therefore, even if the car in front was turning the other way from you, unless there is a separate lane for your turn (or space for you to be level with the other car at the stop sign line) then you still have to stop completely before proceeding through the stop sign.

That's my understanding anyway...

Yes you do have to come to a complete stop, and be able to see in all directions, but you can do this from behind another vehicle - not necessary to roll up and stop again.

[pritch]

Well Katwyn, you should pretty much have digested the bad news by now. Sorry about that.

I face a similar situation almost everytime I ride home from town, there is a place where two busy roads merge. I'm approaching the merge point looking back over my shoulder to see what I have to give way to and one might assume that the other drivers are doing similar.

But no! So many of them get to the merge point then realise they need to give way if there is anything coming. Up to this point though it hasn't even ocurred to them to look. So they slam the brakes on, stop, then look. Any poor sucker who is actually driving properly could then drive smack into the back of them.

To my mind it's absolutely clear who is in the wrong, but the other guy will get the ticket.

[terbang]

Yup its a bitch of a thing to happen. Watched a couple of cages sprinkle glass all over the road in exactly the same scenario. Doddery old prick couldn't make up his mind and did the go, hesitate, stop thing and the poor guy behind, though he obviusly didn't look well enough, ends up in the wrong.

[placidfemme]

Who's in the right and whos in the wrong.......

Heres the scenario.

At a stop sign sitting behind said car (on my bike). I always leave a bit of room in front....

I wanted to turn left so I was Looking to my right at traffic coming down the hill......heaps of time to go....for me AND said car in front of me

Said car takes off to go, then obviously changes their mind....then brakes.... ....Katwyn never saw that part

I had already taken off (carrying on looking to my right),all of a sudden a big black piece of shit is in front on me :shit: so instead of hitting its boot I swerved to the right side swiping the back and rear door panels (but not the boot)...but managed to stay upright

I said to the driver "Why did'nt you go then?" they said there was traffic coming...they say the crash was my fault

Any traffic cops have any thoughts on this?

Have to agree with most of the peeps who've commented already. Accident is your fault as much as that sucks. I nearly rear-ended a car last Thursday when I binned my bike, only just missed the car but still binned... Can't moan about the damage to the bike cause legally its my fault even though the guy slammed on anchors in the middle of the traffic lights in free flowing traffic...

Hope your ok and that the cager doesn't slam you too hard for repairs to the cage...

[Thomas]

Done the same thing but in a car, so I can sympathise! Silly cow in front of me moved off, I was watching traffic coming from the right so I assumed she had gone and started to move, she'd seen a car about 400m down the road so decided she should stop for it. Thankfully it was just a very slow nudge with my bumper and no damage, but if there had been, I reckon I wouldn't have had much in the way of an excuse.

[crashe]

Yes you do have to come to a complete stop, and be able to see in all directions, but you can do this from behind another vehicle - not necessary to roll up and stop again.

Yep you do have to STOP....

I was following a car and that car stopped at the stop sign.... and as he moved off.. I could see the way was clear and I kinda rolled in behind him and moved off as well at 5 kph.

OOPS but who was around the corner but a police check getting people for not stopping.

I was pulled up and about to be given a ticket....
But due to the other car and its driver in front of me that was already sitting there...... he must have done something bad.... cos the cop came back and said get out of here........
No ticket.........



So no matter what, EACH vehicle must come to a complete STOP at a STOP sign.

[ceebie13]

Only a couple of days ago I (briefly) mentioned on KB an "off" that I had after a contretante with a London cab. Well in a little more detail, I was proceeding normally along a main road. I saw a cab itching to join the flow from a side road on my right ahead of me. He pulled out into the middle of the road ahead of me and slowly crept along. Anticipating all this I thought "well I've actually got time and road space to overtake him on his right rather than "undertake" on his left hand side." In the split second that I did my over the shoulder life-saver, he decided to stop. On looking forwards again, I was confronted with his rear end staring me in the face! Braked hard, greasy road, front wheel gives way, bike dropped and slides under his rear bumper and punctures his petrol tank. Result? Bike forks stuffed, tank stuffed and bars now resembling a hair grip and me needing a tetanus jab in my arse (just thought...is that why its called tetanus?) Anyway, I digress...No body stopped as witnesses, except - you guessed it - another cabbie. Cabbie? what cabbie? there was no cabbie when I was there. Funny how they materialise out of thin air when you don't want one isn't it? I took the rap.

[slinky]

Yeh unfortunatly thats your bad, shud always keep an eye on the car infront and never presume ther gona go.
My mum does it all the time (ie she is the car infront!!) except she comes up to give ways when its clear and ther is no need to stop, but maybe just slow down a little just incase. But she will stop, and i tell her one day someone is gona run up her arse because its obvious that its clear and she should not need to stop.

[Wasp]

sadly its your fault, ive been in that other car that they wait for and seen it happen (car v car = SMASH)

[Lissa]

Ive seen that happen a couple of times myself.. Car vs Car. Hope you are ok, and that it doesnt cost you too much.

[apteryx_haasti]

So no matter what, EACH vehicle must come to a complete STOP at a STOP sign.

Thanks, Crashe - that's always been my understanding as well.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Sorry your fault.

I parked my bike between two parks in town one day and girl backed in to my bike and it fell over and hit a flash Landrover. Scratched the side of it. I got the number plate and fested up to the insurance company about the illegal parking. the response was as above. No one has the right to damage another persons property. They ( the lady parking ) was in the wrong. She had to pay for the bike and the Landrover. So the same applies here. You should have been able to stop. I know :angry: but that's life.

Sorry to hear but you are ok and that's 99% of good. :yes: :yes:

[aaron01]

compulsary stop signs means you have to stop as well at the head of the que

[Guitana]

Nice to see a bike running cars off the road for once!!
You should carry a spare bike chain with you at all times just in case someone tries to take you out then you can slash your chain up and down their bonnet and doors as you ride past!!!
The look on their faces will be priceless!!!
I'm heading down to the wreckers tonight to get one something nice and heavy but not too greasy!!

[KATWYN]

You should carry a spare bike chain with you at all times just in case someone tries to take you out then you can slash your chain up and down their bonnet and doors as you ride past!!!




:laugh: Like those biker girls did in that movie "Rat Race" when they took offence to that driver on the road......scarey

[KLOWN]

:laugh: Like those biker girls did in that movie "Rat Race" when they took offence to that driver on the road......scarey

haha, then he went (drove through the wall) of the veterans meeting looking like hittler, man that was funny. the rest of the movie was shit.

[apteryx_haasti]

...except she comes up to give ways when its clear and ther is no need to stop, but maybe just slow down a little just incase. But she will stop, and i tell her one day someone is gona run up her arse because its obvious that its clear and she should not need to stop.

Oh my - that's a beef of mine that deserves a thread all of its own!

Why on EARTH are you BRAKING when you can clearly SEE THAT THERE IS NO ONE COMING????!!!! (my internal rant - I have a few...)

[Patrick]

Mate of mine a while back was driving a Volvo along a dual carrageway in the UK at about 70mph (120ish kph) when a truck pulled out of a side road onto the lane he was in, and he had nowhere to go but into the back of him... came out alive which was good, but the insurance company decided to be a cock about it and wouldn't pay out, saying that as he hit the truck from behind he was at fault.

Should have fought it... Truck simply failed to give way and is at fault.

[Patrick]

Although very very unlikely it is possible that the Driver you hit could have been in breach of their license conditions eg. driving while disqualified or the vehicle may not have a current warrant or rego, bit of a stretch but these are the only circumstances that I can think of that would give you some grounds to defend. Leave it to the insurance guys

Dodgy and wrong... although they shouldn't be on the road, that was not the "cause"... The cause is still her running into the back of em. If there were breaches etc, they will get thier ticket seperately.

[Patrick]

there is a place where two busy roads merge.

And Northgate, outside NPGHS... "crash palace..." Twats who can't merge like a zip from both lanes that merge into one...

[slinky]

Dodgy and wrong... although they shouldn't be on the road, that was not the "cause"... The cause is still her running into the back of em. If there were breaches etc, they will get thier ticket seperately.

can make a deal and tell'em that you won't go to cops bout ther breaches. :D

[slinky]

Oh my - that's a beef of mine that deserves a thread all of its own!

Why on EARTH are you BRAKING when you can clearly SEE THAT THERE IS NO ONE COMING????!!!! (my internal rant - I have a few...)

well she doesn't copmletely stop, but slows down way way to much! like she may aswell stop.

[Patrick]

can make a deal and tell'em that you won't go to cops bout ther breaches. :D

Hmmm... blackmail...:innocent:

[scumdog]

Yeh unfortunatly thats your bad, shud always keep an eye on the car infront and never presume ther gona go.
My mum does it all the time (ie she is the car infront!!) except she comes up to give ways when its clear and ther is no need to stop, but maybe just slow down a little just incase. But she will stop, and i tell her one day someone is gona run up her arse because its obvious that its clear and she should not need to stop.

All very well - but the following car may not have seen an approaching vehicle that the front vehicle HAS seen.

Almost nobody pulls out on front of a car they have already seen when it's about to crash into them.

And there is always the chance the car on front may be driven by somebody not use to it - and may stall it unexpectedly.

You may moan about your mum but hey, she probably is just being very cautious - something older people do.:yes: :yes:

[Paul in NZ]

You may moan about your mum but hey, she probably is just being very cautious - something older people do.:yes: :yes:

probably why they lived that long in the first place

[Ixion]

Oh my - that's a beef of mine that deserves a thread all of its own!

Why on EARTH are you BRAKING when you can clearly SEE THAT THERE IS NO ONE COMING????!!!! (my internal rant - I have a few...)

Well, I don't (slow n stop if the way appears clear) myself. But I'd be loath to castigate someone who did.

Even if the way APPEARS clear, can you be sure? No-one on the road, Awaaaay we go - oh SHIT , didn't allow for the dude who pulled out of a driveway on the right , and launched in the assumption that he had the right of way. Or the motorcyclist coming round the bend before the intersection at warp speed (cos he knows the road and KNOWS that other traffic will give way to him ) . Or whatever. Over cautious may be annoying. But I'd rather be annoyed than terrified (or worse)

[Pixie]

Then it's an illegal overtaking maneauver.


Nup mate...... see my above post......
The woman driving ahead of me that I clipped........
slowed down, speed up and then slamed on her brakes within seconds..... within 3 foot of a ped crossing....... I was still technically at fault.....

if behind......... you are in the wrong......

And I did everything possible to not hit the car.

Ahh, the wonderous human mind and it's ability to rationalise itself out of blame.

... if you hit a stopped or slowing vehicle,regardless of how hard it was braking,you were following too close / not paying attention.

I've done it myself.

[Pixie]

there's also the fact that you were at a stop sign in a line of traffic, therefore, even if the car in front of you goes, you still have to come to a complete stop until the way is clear once you get to the front of the queue.

This is incorrect.All you have to do at a stop sign is stop in such a position as to clearly see the road,in both directions,that you are turning in to.So if you can see clearly when waiting for the car in front of you to enter the intersection, you may follow it without stopping.

I was told this at a defensive driving course, by a senior MOT cop, in 1984.

[Pixie]

Yep you do have to STOP....

I was following a car and that car stopped at the stop sign.... and as he moved off.. I could see the way was clear and I kinda rolled in behind him and moved off as well at 5 kph.

OOPS but who was around the corner but a police check getting people for not stopping.

I was pulled up and about to be given a ticket....
But due to the other car and its driver in front of me that was already sitting there...... he must have done something bad.... cos the cop came back and said get out of here........
No ticket.........



So no matter what, EACH vehicle must come to a complete STOP at a STOP sign.

Many moons ago a cop tried to bust me for not stopping at a compulsory stop.What I had done was come to a complete stop,remained balanced without putting my feet down,and after looking both ways,proceeded through the intersection.
The cop said that because I didn't put my feet down I can't have stopped.I said that I can prove that I did stop by repeating the stunt as many times as he wished.He agreed and I did the trick for him again, even stopping, rolling backwards down the hill and stopping again.All while having my feet firmly planted on the pegs.

He let me go,of course.

The bike was a TS 185,which was very easy to do this on

[Pixie]

compulsary stop signs means you have to stop as well at the head of the que
NZ Road code....
At an intersection controlled by a STOP sign:


you must stop, not just slow down
stop where you can see vehicles coming from all directions
stay stopped and give way to all other vehicles (including bicycles, motorcycles etc)
if you and another vehicle are coming towards each other and you are both at STOP signs, use the give way rules
you must not go until it is safe for you and all other traffic

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/giving-way/controlled-intersections2.html

[bikemike]

Yes, your fault.

Agree with Scratcha, some:


Katwyn. It's a lesson we get taught during basic training (CBT) back in the $hithole that is the UK. NEVER start a turn or manouvere whilst looking in another direction.

However...


For a left turn at a junction, check right, check left, check right again and then start moving off and look where you're going (basically you check both directions twice).

I'd say best practice is to look the way you want to go, look the other way, then scan back to the way you want to go, then go. You may add shoulder checks as necessary, depending on traffic, delays etc... and assuming it's clear.

This is the quickest way through the checks you should be doing and avoids the you getting panicky and giving each look too little attention, and looking too often. If you do it the same way every time, it becomes much easier, and your confidence improves and the amount of time you have to assess the hazard seems to increase.

Of course if you have to stop at the junction, you can look about you all you like, to keep an eye on the whole situation. But when it comes to a simple negotiation of the junction, or the moving off after waiting in line, then the simple process above works for me.


Look the way you want to go. You plan your line, your speed, the likely hazards as you will be moving off. Look at pot holes, road paint, lane changes, signs, traffic, pedestrians etc.... For a right turn in particular, check the road camber, islands, merge lanes and so on. If it's clear then;

Look the other way. All the usual, including vehicles overtaking turning vehicles. If it's clear then;

Scan back - all the stuff in the middle, including parked vehicles that may be looking at the same gap / opportunity as you; and if that's clear then;

Looking the way you are now going to go, move off if that's clear, according to your plan at (1) You may need a shoulder check. You are committed, and you should not be wagging your head left to right now, and should be keeping an eye on any vehicle in front ;)

Repeat as necessary.

[Lucy]

Yes, if you don't look again in the direction you are wanting to travel in, as well as hitting the car in front who has stopped for whatever reason, you may also hit a cyclist or motorcyclist who has lanesplit and may now be in front of you, without you being aware of it.

[Lou Girardin]

That's a classic accident situation. Common as muck.
Sorry, you're at fault.

[MVnut]

Sorry, your fault. At a Comstop, you must stop! Simple as that. That means AT the Stop sign, not behind someone else even if you can see the way is clear. Then go only when it is. This is one law that's black and white. Hope it doesn't prove too expensive. :rockon: