NZ driver licensing system - what would YOU do???

[Swoop]

OK folks. As a spin off from the 4x4 thread, OAB came up with the point that "fixing" or adjusting our current system would be a great first step to better "health and safety" on our roads.

What would be your changes or suggestions?

The thread intends to concentrate on the drivers/licences/testing system NOT the state of our roads.

You are now the "Minister of driver licencing" - go to it.

[The_Dover]

ban women from driving anything other than an approved shopping and child transportation vehicle.

something like a ford fiesta, but then make sure it was speed limited and fitted with collision detection radar.

they would also only be allowed in the left lane of the motorway and only allowed to drive after dark if retrieving a drunk spouse from the pub or a mates house.

[James Deuce]

Ban everyone under 25 from driving or owning any sort of vehicle, including skateboards and treadlies.

[DEATH_INC.]

Get rid of scratchie tests, back to the old way....
More practical testing, drivers should be able to demonstrate the ability to be capable of driving, not just following the book

[yungatart]

All drivers sit a practical test at 10 year intervals.
More driver education - making "pro drive" free and compulsory would be a good start.
No car licence until you have done a certain amount of hours on a motorcycle

[avgas]

make bull bars illegal. As i am not allowed spikes on my bike - why should a car be allowed bull bars. I grew up off road and i never had a need to use them.

[imdying]

It is doubtful given the amount of testers required, that we'll stop people who can't drive getting licenses (you know the ones I'm talking about), so why bother even trying to change anything.

[Swoop]

make bull bars illegal. As i am not allowed spikes on my bike - why should a car be allowed bull bars. I grew up off road and i never had a need to use them.

Keep it to the drivers licencing system please.

[Swoop]

The practical emphasis on the skills rather than the "paperwork". Scratchie tests are good for getting people to know the road rules, but the driving skills need to be decent.

Defensive drivers course mandatory???

Overseas drivers:
If visiting for vacation/holiday of up to 1 month (roughly), the driver may use their international licence.
Any longer than that OR if you have ticked the box marked "Moving to NZ permanently" when the person is at the airport on arrival, straight into the NZ licencing process with a short period of grace (possibly 1 month?) to get fully licenced.

[James Deuce]

No licenses for foreign drivers until they are naturalised citizens.

[Squeak the Rat]

Strict driving test that focuses on driving competency, not just on knowledge of road rules.

75 total demerits within first 4 years of licence = loss of licence for 12 months.

Driving unlicenced = impounding of car being driven.

Having a NZ bank account, IRD number, property or lease means you can no longer drive on home country licence.

[The_Dover]

The practical emphasis on the skills rather than the "paperwork". Scratchie tests are good for getting people to know the road rules, but the driving skills need to be decent.

Defensive drivers course mandatory???

Overseas drivers:
If visiting for vacation/holiday of up to 1 month (roughly), the driver may use their international licence.
Any longer than that OR if you have ticked the box marked "Moving to NZ permanently" when the person is at the airport on arrival, straight into the NZ licencing process with a short period of grace (possibly 1 month?) to get fully licenced.

given that UK drivers skill levels are far in excess of you kiwi monkeys I think that's a bit unfair.

I was pissed off enough at having to pay a small fortune, after a year of going native, to convert a far superior licence to the kiwi excuse for a driving permit.

this country has the worst driving I've ever experienced, worse than Nigeria for fucks sake.

why can kids get a licence at 15? it's ridiculous, most of them don't even have pubes yet they can drive a car with ridiculous power?

put the minimum licence age up to 17, get rid of the bullshit restricted licence. learners permit under strict supervision with fuckin harsh penalties for breaches of permit and mandatory lessons with a registered instructor.

[James Deuce]

Driving unlicenced = impounding and destruction of car/bike/truck being driven.



See edited changes

[Swoop]

given that UK drivers skill levels are far in excess of you kiwi monkeys I think that's a bit unfair.
The premise here is that the new "Minister of drivers licences" will have a wonderful new system in place (which we are designing on this thread) and the migrants from UK will indeed need to "upgrade" their licence to a better kiwi one. We have lots of experienced members here, from many different countries, so we should be able to design a pretty good system!

[Motu]

Just ban Asian drivers - they can ride black single speed pushbikes only.Increase the sales tax on black single speed pushbikes,and a manditory black single speed pushbike licence test will be needed....expensive test too,renewed monthly.

[Guitana]

Just ban Asian drivers - they can ride black single speed pushbikes only.Increase the sales tax on black single speed pushbikes,and a manditory black single speed pushbike licence test will be needed....expensive test too,renewed monthly.

Watch it Motu Asians own most of NZ now and they could kick you out at anytime!!!

[onearmedbandit]

Raise the minimum driving age to 18.
Compuslary driver instruction and testing, with penalties for failing. (ie, do it once, do it right)
Power restrictions on drivers under the age of 20. (maybe conicide with 2yr 'learner' stage)
Re-tests every 5yrs.
Infringements of basic driving skills requires you to resit your licence (no cost involved). (ie failing to turn into the correct lane, failing to indicate - simply things really but if you can't do it you resit your test until you can)

That should get a few people talking.

[NinjaNanna]

I have always thought it odd that your ability to ride a motorcycle larger than 250cc is based on your ability to ride a 250?????

I think the Australian System of supervised riding and then testing on a larger bike makes more sense.

[MSTRS]

No licenses for foreign drivers until they are naturalised citizens.

And that includes the genetic component of their DNA???

[mstriumph]

1. licence pushbike riders riding on the road from age 12 - provide miniature road systems at all major locations and make it part of the school sylabus that children practice on them/study and impliment the road rules progressively from age 5.

2. make it mandatory that all prospective drivers MUST have passed their pushbike driver's test and held it for 6 months before being eligible to go for any other sort of licence

3. make it mandatory that ALL drivers must pass their motorcycle full and demonstrate two years survival on the roads on two wheels before being permitted to take a car licence

4. introduce a 4 wheel drive licence - make it manadatory that candidates must demonstrate two years survival on the roads in a standard car before being permitted to take it.

----------
5. introduce best practice training centres with [obviously very expensive] courses for each type of driver/rider on the roads ...... the candidate pays for the training and the courses are optional with a stiff test at the end - BUT, if you pass, you get classed as an 'expert' driver and are permitted to travel at 30kph over any posted limit outside metro areas & special zones when driving/riding the class of vehicle you passed the test for........... of course, if you commit any infringement as an 'expert' you lose this priviledge and have to retake the test and training to regain it
-----------------
6. make it illegal for the Dover to drive ANYTHING that isn't pink with purple frills and small bells on over the speed of, say, 50kph on any public roadway:Punk:

and, of course, introduce a law stating that the 'Minister for Driving Licencing' can park where she pleases and drive/ride at whatever speed i fancy :innocent:

[bikemike]

Don't know if it's changed since I last enquired, but a 'motorcycle' instructor goes through the same training as a 'car' instructor. That is, the training is in a car. Joe Blogs who teaches m/c gets no specific m/c instruction instruction....

Anyone confirm this?

If this is still the case, this would be one to change :-)

[Disco Dan]

I wanna find a country where cars are banned... :innocent:

[Lou Girardin]

Raise the minimum age to 18 (except for mopeds). Develop tougher tests ala Europe. The Driver testers to be run by a Govt agency, not private. Require a minimum period of professional instruction.
Retest ALL drivers every 10 years. Reinstate over 80's tests.
Introduce a graduated licence system for car drivers.

That'll do for starters.

[Guitana]

Raise the minimum age to 18 (except for mopeds). Develop tougher tests ala Europe. The Driver testers to be run by a Govt agency, not private. Require a minimum period of professional instruction.
Retest ALL drivers every 10 years. Reinstate over 80's tests.
Introduce a graduated licence system for car drivers.

That'll do for starters.

That's a bit harsh how will the Asians get their licenses if they can't bribe driving instructors???????

[Juud]

Raise the minimum driving age to 18.
Compuslary driver instruction and testing, with penalties for failing.

I agree with that, except for the penalties for failing (getting your license would be expensive enough, we don't want it to be exclusive for the rich).
But compulsory lessons, yes. Whoever thought learning to drive from a family member is a good idea should be shot.

[Guitana]

Maybe we should try the "CHAOS" approach. You can buy a license to drive anything for ten dollars.There are no road rules no fines no speed restrictions. The upshot is everybody would be so scared to go on the roads only the truly stupid ones will venture out and probably be killed in the process!!!!!

[James Deuce]

I agree with that, except for the penalties for failing (getting your license would be expensive enough, we don't want it to be exclusive for the rich).
But compulsory lessons, yes. Whoever thought learning to drive from a family member is a good idea should be shot.

Germany has operated this way for decades and yes, there are people who never get their license. Incidentally it costs approximately 10000DM to pass your drivers license.

[Beemer]

I agree with Dover - what you get here is a 'permit' to drive and it doesn't really offer much more than that. It's a bit like a permit to light an outdoor fire - it doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills to do so in a manner not likely to endanger others!

I think driver/rider training - AFFORDABLE - should be compulsory. Most people learn to drive by being taught by their parents, partners or friends. So if they have any bad habits, you tend to pick them up too. Most motorcyclists have a much higher level of skill when learning because the consequences of making mistakes is also much higher.

I'm not 100% convinced about restricting learners to certain cc ratings because to my mind it's more about teaching them the skills to handle whatever they are driving rather than limiting them to low powered vehicles.

You have to undergo extra training to get a truck or bus licence so I think the basic driving licence system needs to be harder. There ARE people out there who just shouldn't be driving - just like there are people who aren't good enough to be doctors or lawyers or whatever. Why should we make it easy enough that EVERY person has the ability to get their licence? I liken it to school - some kids are plodders, they work well all year and yet don't always do well in exams - others muck around all year and yet blitz the exams. Why should one short test (plus a scratchie one) be sufficient to prove the person has the ability to drive?

[onearmedbandit]

I agree with that, except for the penalties for failing (getting your license would be expensive enough, we don't want it to be exclusive for the rich).
But compulsory lessons, yes. Whoever thought learning to drive from a family member is a good idea should be shot.


As Jim2 says Germany has operated this way for years, and despite having 'some' unlimited speed zones has a low road toll. In Japan it is similar, obtaining a drivers licence costs around $2000, and that goes up each time you fail, and it goes up as you get older. The idea is to encourage people to know what's required and obtain their licence at an early (but higher than NZ) age.

[Juud]

Germany has operated this way for decades and yes, there are people who never get their license. Incidentally it costs approximately 10000DM to pass your drivers license.

You mean they actually get a penalty for failing the test? Seems a bit harsh on people who are that nervous for a test and make mistakes they normally never would have made (like me for instance:o ).

[Juud]

Being Dutch and all, I never knew this about Germany (the penalty system I mean) Have to come all the way to NZ to hear about it lol

[Macktheknife]

First thing is to raise the age of licence to 17, then everyone must complete 2 years on a motorcycle/scooter before being allowed to begin training for a car licence.
Rider training compulsory every 6 months for the first 2 year period, driver training compulsory for a further 1 year.
Create new class of licence for 'advanced' drivers/riders who undertake a course that demonstrates high skills, apply after 5 years of clean record. (needs some work)
Changes to all licencing to restrict HP in relation to experience: more experience = more HP, but you must apply for it and have a clean record.
Anyone who racks up more than $2000 in driving related fines over a 12 month period, loses their licence until all fines are repaid, vehicle impounded until paid off, and must restart licence process from scratch.
Vehicular manslaughter charge for anyone who takes the life of another through reckless/dangerous road use.
Compulsory retesting for every 2 years over 65, every year for over 75.
1 'freebie' speeding offence for any driver/rider who has a clean record for 2 years, if exceeding the limit by less than 20km/h.
4wd licence category, must complete specialist course showing offroad skills and advanced on road skills, possibly integrate with advanced class of licence.
Compulsory 3rd party insurance for all drivers/riders, government scheme not subject to 'private increase' behaviour.
Any person gets 2 drunk/drug driving convictions in a 5 year period, loses licence for 2 years and must restart licence process after this, confiscate vehicle to defray costs.

[Ixion]

There is little wrong with the present licensing system. The problem is that the process of getting a license does nothing much to affect what the newly licensed driver does on the road.

Very few of the idiots who do the idiotic things we complain of (or boast of) do them because they don't know any better. The soccer Mom who hangs a U turn right in front of you without checking or signallining KNOWS she should check, signal etc. She just doesn't give a damn so she doesn't bother.

So I think you can't separate the licensing process from enforcement.

For me? Reduce the age for a license for a <125cc (4 stroke, power restriction also) motorcycle to 14 . Because 14 year olds are much more controllable than 16 year olds. Learner cage or < 250 (power restricted or limited to list) motorbike or cage (< 1200cc power restricted , or limited to list: I don't give a stuff about how inconvenient it is not being able to borrow dad's V8 ) after 2 years on <125cc motorbike OR aged 18. After two years on a small bike even the most testosterone driven youff may have some respect for the risks of the road. Don't want to ride a little motorbike? Fine, wait until you're 18.

The present learner, restricted, full regime seems OK just change it as above, allow earlier start on small bike, later start otherwise . This gets over the "Kids need a licence at 15 to get to work" argument. Yep, they can do what kids of my generation did and get to work on a little motorbike.

I don't see any real downside to restricting them to a small bike until 18.

And, sorry folks, but I think that there needs to be much more stringent enforcement of breaches of licence conditions. Breach your licence conditions, suspended licence, impounded vehicle (explain that to Dad).

And a time limit you can sit on each stage before taking a test . People might be amazed at the number of cages being driven (unsupervised) by people who have NEVER taken a test, and have been driving on a learners licence for 5 or 10 years.

OK, if you're not ready and don't pass, you can keep on at the same stage. But, if you sit the test and fail, then to qualify to sit it again, you have to do X hours of professional tuition. This is sort of a half way house between the "Dad will teach you" we've traditionally had, and the people who want professional tutition only. I'm not too keen on forcing people to pay professionals - partly cos I don't like the idea and partly because some of the "professionals" are totall idiots. So, if you can pass the test without it, fine. Fail, and you have to go to a pro.

The tests (L->R, R-> F) MUCH tougher. I think the full should be 3 or 4 hours long split into several sessions. And cover a lot more conditions. Some (like wet roads) might need special artifical test grounds , since we can't arrange rain to order. I'd like a requirement for testing at night too, but don't quite know how that could be managed. And much more qualified testers, preferably cops. At least, people who actually know HOW to drive themselves. So the tests are going to cost quite a lot, unless subsidised. A think a case can be made for that. Maybe the first test is subsidised ,fail and the subsequent ones you have to pay the full cost. So an incentive to make sure you pass first time.

Retest (shorter, like todays full) for all drivers every 10 years. If you do that I don't think you need a special regime for the elderly.

Much tougher enforcement of the DANGEROUS stuff. Reinstitute a separate traffic force. NOT part of the police. I have become convinced that the whole police approach to traffic is wrong.

And instead of the demerit points system, a system where you get X points awarded each year if you have NO violations . And violations deduct points as at present, but more steeply. So , years of good driving and one naughty doesn't put you off the road, but repeated "minor" offences quickly will. No accrued goodie points and you go through a red light? You're walking.

I think that more use could be made of short licence suspensions - a couple of weeks. Fines don't necessarily worry rich folk, but not having a vehicle for 2 weeks is a hassle for most people. But not so big a hassle that even poor people can't work round it. And the suspension eriod goes up for repeat offenders.

[Guitana]

There is little wrong with the present licensing system. The problem is that the process of getting a license does nothing much to affect what the newly licensed driver does on the road.

Very few of the idiots who do the idiotic things we complain of (or boast of) do them because they don't know any better. The soccer Mom who hangs a U turn right in front of you without checking or signallining KNOWS she should check, signal etc. She just doesn't give a damn so she doesn't bother.

So I think you can't separate the licensing process from enforcement.

For me? Reduce the age for a license for a <125cc (4 stroke, power restriction also) motorcycle to 14 . Because 14 year olds are much more controllable than 16 year olds. Learner cage or < 250 (power restricted or limited to list) motorbike or cage (< 1200cc power restricted , or limited to list: I don't give a stuff about how inconvenient it is not being able to borrow dad's V8 ) after 2 years on <125cc motorbike OR aged 18. After two years on a small bike even the most testosterone driven youff may have some respect for the risks of the road. Don't want to ride a little motorbike? Fine, wait until you're 18.

The present learner, restricted, full regime seems OK just change it as above, allow earlier start on small bike, later start otherwise . This gets over the "Kids need a licence at 15 to get to work" argument. Yep, they can do what kids of my generation did and get to work on a little motorbike.

I don't see any real downside to restricting them to a small bike until 18.

And, sorry folks, but I think that there needs to be much more stringent enforcement of breaches of licence conditions. Breach your licence conditions, suspended licence, impounded vehicle (explain that to Dad).

And a time limit you can sit on each stage before taking a test . People might be amazed at the number of cages being driven (unsupervised) by people who have NEVER taken a test, and have been driving on a learners licence for 5 or 10 years.

OK, if you're not ready and don't pass, you can keep on at the same stage. But, if you sit the test and fail, then to qualify to sit it again, you have to do X hours of professional tuition. This is sort of a half way house between the "Dad will teach you" we've traditionally had, and the people who want professional tutition only. I'm not too keen on forcing people to pay professionals - partly cos I don't like the idea and partly because some of the "professionals" are totall idiots. So, if you can pass the test without it, fine. Fail, and you have to go to a pro.

The tests (L->R, R-> F) MUCH tougher. I think the full should be 3 or 4 hours long split into several sessions. And cover a lot more conditions. Some (like wet roads) might need special artifical test grounds , since we can't arrange rain to order. I'd like a requirement for testing at night too, but don't quite know how that could be managed. And much more qualified testers, preferably cops. At least, people who actually know HOW to drive themselves. So the tests are going to cost quite a lot, unless subsidised. A think a case can be made for that. Maybe the first test is subsidised ,fail and the subsequent ones you have to pay the full cost. So an incentive to make sure you pass first time.

Retest (shorter, like todays full) for all drivers every 10 years. If you do that I don't think you need a special regime for the elderly.

Much tougher enforcement of the DANGEROUS stuff. Reinstitute a separate traffic force. NOT part of the police. I have become convinced that the whole police approach to traffic is wrong.

And instead of the demerit points system, a system where you get X points awarded each year if you have NO violations . And violations deduct points as at present, but more steeply. So , years of good driving and one naughty doesn't put you off the road, but repeated "minor" offences quickly will. No accrued goodie points and you go through a red light? You're walking.

I think that more use could be made of short licence suspensions - a couple of weeks. Fines don't necessarily worry rich folk, but not having a vehicle for 2 weeks is a hassle for most people. But not so big a hassle that even poor people can't work round it. And the suspension eriod goes up for repeat offenders.

Yeah what he said!!!!!

[Squeak the Rat]

You mean they actually get a penalty for failing the test? Seems a bit harsh on people who are that nervous for a test and make mistakes they normally never would have made (like me for instance:o ).Driving on the road can be very stressful. The driving test *should* show competency in dealing with stress while in control of a tonne of steel travelling at killing speeds.

[Horney1]

I don't have too much time to write and I really could get carried away with this(!) but briefly:

I'm with the chaos theory to an extent (keeping driving on the left - unless passing) or at least grading licences to IQ, reflexes and proven ability to allow decent speeds (I mean 240ish or even a category for unlimited!! NO pissy 100, 110 or 120 maximum!).

Pluses for chaos: People will expect someone to do something stupid and take more care.

Pluses for graded licences: I won't get tickets for putt putting along at a safe 180 and certainly not for a much safer 130! (yes there are times to go slow to but the IQ, reflexes and proven ability factor should take care of those).

Banish speed limits and people will drive to their speed. Yes, there is much more to say on training (& revenue gathering!!!)... briefly, I learned early on "private" roads and was riding a big heavy english bike before I was ten (it really pissed dad off each time he found out!). I could drive a landrover in rough terrain at 12-13 for safety reasons. I think these things helped my skills and they are the sorts of things that should be encouraged instead of recoiling in fear. The later someone learns to drive the older they will be when they make their mistakes. So extrapolating the fear & "oh, lets raise the age limit" things, in 100 years people will have to be what? 35 years old before they can hold a licence!

The genetic exclusion argument is compelling! I know the types people that have caused me the most aggrevation on the roads and I'm only guessing that it's a common occurance for others. Although, I guess the graded licencing I suggested above could take care of that to! Go the one-speed bicycles theory!

[SPman]

Issue licences with the birth certificate - after all - it's a RIGHT!

[Juud]

Driving on the road can be very stressful. The driving test *should* show competency in dealing with stress while in control of a tonne of steel travelling at killing speeds.

Mmm, in theory there is some truth in that. However, psychologically, in my case, there is a huge difference between riding on the road and doing a test where everything has to be perfect. Everybody knows that when you're nervous you are more likely to make mistakes, it's only human.

I can assure you that I didn't turn in to a killer maniac on the road. (I'm not a nana either)

[Swoop]

So I think you can't separate the licensing process from enforcement.
This thread is about the process that a person must go through to actually get a licence.
Enforcement of the rules is co-existing with this scheme and naturally any breaches will invoke the wrath of complete enforcement by the police. Found driving on a learners at night with passengers = out with the law book and enforce penalty laid out therein. Simple.

Good post Ix, I expected nothing less!

[Ixion]

You can't separate the two though. If you make it hard to get a licence, but the penalties for driving without a licence/wrong licence/breach of conditions are small compared to the cost/difficulty of getting licence, then people will simply ignore the licence.

F'instance - it is was like Germany, and cost $10000 to get a full licence. But the penalty for driving on a learners and ignoring the restrictions was only $400 a time - most people would simply get a learners and go no further $10000 is a lot of $400s. So the tougher you make the licence regime, the tougher you have to make the penalties for not complying with it.

At present the graduated licencse scheme is by and large ignored. Learners,restricted, full it's all the same.

[Swoop]

Unfortunately our NZ public transport system does not provide a decent alternative to using your own vehicle. We see this every day.

[scracha]

First thing I'd do is put a foreigner in charge of the licensing system cos it's foreigners that run this country.

Next thing I'd do is force ALL the existing kiwi's to sit a harder driving test over the next two year's. I woudn't bother with the foreigners as they tend to drive in a far safer fashion than most kiwi's. This driving test would have elements in it that are currently alien concepts such as being courteous on the road and leaving more than 5 milliseconds braking distance.

Third thing I'd do is make a graded license system with an 80kmh limit for new drivers or drivers with more than 50 points and (where appropriate) a 120kmh limit for competent drivers. I'd probably lower the speed limit in most towns though.

Fourth thing I'd do is make a penalty system that people actually give a $hit about. Yeah, and that means losing your license (NO EXCEPTIONS) if you're caught drink driving and JAIL if you're caught more than once. A night in the cells for people caught driving without a license would also not be a bad idea. Public flogging for being a selfish prick and not pulling over to let the 50 vehicles behind you past would also be on the agenda. :innocent:

[The_Dover]

and being made to parade naked with a carrot in your arse for riding a honda!!!

[boomer]

and being made to parade naked with a carrot in your arse for riding a honda!!!

You're on that Hondah wagon tonight aren't ya tubby?

Bling to you Scratcha.. i TOTALLY agree :yes:

[Lou Girardin]

I thought that the penalty for failing was not getting a licence.
Do you guys want to fine them as well?

[James Deuce]

No we want to put them in stocks and pelt them with frozen stone fruit.

[Skyryder]

I'd make every one have to get a passenger licence before any other kind of 'four' wheeled licence and be made to work for a bus company for twelve months. Some would never pass and as such would never be allowed to drive. That would get rid of 90% of road users and 90% of those that have no idea where they are going. Those that passed would have some experiance of what driving a bus is like and as such be a bit more aware of the problems driving a bus in city traffic. :dodge:

Skyryder

[scracha]

and being made to parade naked with a carrot in your arse for riding a honda!!!

So I'd be riding "orange" instead of red?

[Big Dan]

can ppl reconmend a place to site my handling course?