Why hasn't Burt Munro's record been broken?

[Lorax]

Is it because his record is not prestigious enough? People are chasing the mega-speed (unrestricted) record instead?

Or have others tried and failed?

How hard would it be to try to break that record?

Hmmmm? Hmmmm?

FYI:
The current 'Open' record holder is Chris Carr, who achieved a speed of 350.884 m.p.h.
Burt Munro holds the 850cc record (178.97) set in 1962, and the 950cc record (190.07) set in 1967.

[Switch]

Possibly because people want to go the fastest, so they arn't put under the same classification?

[babyB]

On one of his runs, his Indian reached speed of 205.67 mph, earning it the title of "World's Fastest Indian". but it was an incompleted run.

hmmm someone get a 1920 Indian over there & see if they can beat it:shutup::rofl:

[Jaxi]

Just like when they "retire" some racing numbers from Moto GP etc as a sign of respect to the racer, so it is with Burt Munroes records.

The categorys he raced in have been frozen as a mark of respect... and hence can never be broken...

[idleidolidyll]

Is it because his record is not prestigious enough? People are chasing the mega-speed (unrestricted) record instead?

Or have others tried and failed?

How hard would it be to try to break that record?

Hmmmm? Hmmmm?

FYI:
The current 'Open' record holder is Chris Carr, who achieved a speed of 350.884 m.p.h.
Burt Munro holds the 850cc record (178.97) set in 1962, and the 950cc record (190.07) set in 1967.


Some years ago (early 90's) Jon White of Christchurch built a bike to challenge the speed record. He spent lots of money (LOTS!) and powered it with a Britten motor.
The Britten itself had a top speed close to 300kph at the time and I seem to recall it getting about 170mph on the Tram Rd at a speed trial with pretty much standard fairing etc.
Jon's bike had the potential to do very very well. At the same speed trial on Tram Rd though, Jon crashed. Tram Rd is not actually a great place for long wheelbase land speed record style bikes. The cambers are terrible and so are the bumps at speed.
Jon eventually went to Bonneville but was plagued with little problems that essentially screwed up his attempt. However, his girlfriend at the time managed later to break a record or 2 on the bike.

Anyone know what happened to that bike and if it ever managed to do better?

[Skunk]

Is it because his record is not prestigious enough? People are chasing the mega-speed (unrestricted) record instead?
How hard would it be to try to break that record?

FYI:
The current 'Open' record holder is Chris Carr, who achieved a speed of 350.884 m.p.h.
Burt Munro holds the 850cc record (178.97) set in 1962, and the 950cc record (190.07) set in 1967.
The rules have changed and the actual class he set his record in does not exist any more.

It therefore cannot be beaten ever.

The specific part has to do with sitting on the bike with an enclosing body.

[Finn]

Burts dead, that's why.

[doc]

Burts dead, that's why.Na Burts living with that young thing Nicole. Saw them talking to Saddam in the carpark at Westhaven yesterday after the Westpac ride.
Actually I think they had been on the ride

[Indiana_Jones]

The rules have changed and the actual class he set his record in does not exist any more.

It therefore cannot be beaten ever.

The specific part has to do with sitting on the bike with an enclosing body.

so If I made a 850cc or whatever it is motorcycle, got the guiness world records boys to time me and beat it, It still won't count?

if so, that's bollocks.

-Indy

[kneescraper]

Your right, it wouldnt count....and your also right...its bollocks. Total respect to Burt though. Showing that old school doesnt mean slow and out dated. Just think about the stories that man could tell....

[pritch]

Na Burts living with that young thing Nicole. Saw them talking to Saddam in the carpark at Westhaven yesterday after the Westpac ride.
Actually I think they had been on the ride

Yeah I think I saw them too. Were they were standing next to Elvis?

[Simon A]

Your right, it wouldnt count....and your also right...its bollocks. Total respect to Burt though. Showing that old school doesnt mean slow and out dated. Just think about the stories that man could tell....

He had some pretty incredible stories and you can read most of them in the book about him. Same title as the movie I think.

[kneescraper]

Oh really, I will have to pop into one of the book stores and buy it. I didnt know of this book...what have I been missing :)

[Steam]

I didnt know of this book...what have I been missing :)
It's at the library too, free. The bit of the book that I remember especially is where he lists all the injuries and crashes he's had, all the bones he has broken, what happened when he crashed and why, and at frightening speeds. It's really worth reading, there are heaps of pictures too.

[doc]

Yeah I think I saw them too. Were they were standing next to Elvis? And Finn who had a picture of Dover

[Grumpy]

My already considerable respect for that old bugger increased quite considerably when I stood staring at his bike in the show at Auckland the other week. How the fuck he achieved what he did on that thing was amazing.

[Paul in NZ]

It's at the library too, free. The bit of the book that I remember especially is where he lists all the injuries and crashes he's had, all the bones he has broken, what happened when he crashed and why, and at frightening speeds. It's really worth reading, there are heaps of pictures too.

There are 2 biographies about him - both a good read and far more interesting that the filum. How that much engineering talent and stubborness ended up in one man is just scary...

So....

Where would a lad find the current records for NZ listed? I have this plan for a GN250 you see and......

[JMemonic]

Is it because his record is not prestigious enough? People are chasing the mega-speed (unrestricted) record instead?

Or have others tried and failed?

How hard would it be to try to break that record?

Hmmmm? Hmmmm?

FYI:
The current 'Open' record holder is Chris Carr, who achieved a speed of 350.884 m.p.h.
Burt Munro holds the 850cc record (178.97) set in 1962, and the 950cc record (190.07) set in 1967.

I understood that the rules under which Burt set his record were changed, and even he did not get to run in that class in the final year he went over to try and beat his own record, something to do with enclosed bikes. I tried to google it but must asking the wrong questions of this computer today.

[idleidolidyll]

Before Burt Munroe broke his record, another Kiwi by the name of Bob Burns broke a land speed record in the mid 50's on Tram Rd outside Christchurch. I have a collection of the original negatives (5x4) of that run.

I was one of the fortunate few who had the pleasure to listen to Bob speak to a bunch of BEARs riders at a picture theatre in Lyttelton in the early 90's. Bob was a great guy and rode bikes to the end; he had some fantastic tales to tell.

His bike was a streamlined sidecar outfit with a Vincent 1000cc motor. The bike was co owned and built with Russel Wright who also got a world motorcycle land speed record on it in the same year (1955).

Bob's record was only broken last year by another New Zealand team sidecar: http://goflyingkiwi.co.nz/index.php

[Guitana]

The real reason nobodys broken his record is that no-ones got the balls to do what he did!!! That bike was an extension of his body and he didnt fear the speed!!!!

[MikeyG]

He had some pretty incredible stories and you can read most of them in the book about him. Same title as the movie I think.


It's at the library too, free. The bit of the book that I remember especially is where he lists all the injuries and crashes he's had, all the bones he has broken, what happened when he crashed and why, and at frightening speeds. It's really worth reading, there are heaps of pictures too.


There are 2 biographies about him - both a good read and far more interesting that the filum. How that much engineering talent and stubborness ended up in one man is just scary



Yeah the movie pales in comparison the the book. Who do you know these days that designs and casts not only thier own pistons but also a OHV/OHC head for an old side valve engine.

[idleidolidyll]

Yeah the movie pales in comparison the the book. Who do you know these days that designs and casts not only thier own pistons but also a OHV/OHC head for an old side valve engine.

Buckley Systems Ltd

[Skunk]

I understood that the rules under which Burt set his record were changed, and even he did not get to run in that class in the final year he went over to try and beat his own record, something to do with enclosed bikes. I tried to google it but must asking the wrong questions of this computer today.
With an enclosed body there must be a firewall between the rider and the engine. This lead to the streamliners which are now much faster than Burts record.

I can't remember offhand exactly the class his record stands in but you can't run in it any more.

This class is a 'Bonneville' class and their 'World Records' are run to different rules to World Governing Body classes.

Burts record is 'fastest Indian' - other brands have gone faster in different classes.

[inlinefour]

Is it because his record is not prestigious enough? People are chasing the mega-speed (unrestricted) record instead?

Or have others tried and failed?

How hard would it be to try to break that record?

Hmmmm? Hmmmm?

FYI:
The current 'Open' record holder is Chris Carr, who achieved a speed of 350.884 m.p.h.
Burt Munro holds the 850cc record (178.97) set in 1962, and the 950cc record (190.07) set in 1967.

Burt Munro is the man. :rockon:

[Kickaha]

another Kiwi by the name of Bob Burns broke a land speed record in the mid 50's on Tram Rd outside Christchurch. I have a collection of the original negatives (5x4) of that run.

His bike was a streamlined sidecar outfit with a Vincent 1000cc motor. The bike was co owned and built with Russel Wright who also got a world motorcycle land speed record on it in the same year (1955).

I thought they set both records at the same event?


Bob's record was only broken last year by another New Zealand team sidecar:

They went faster but they didn't break "his" record as the criteria and classes have changed (much like in Burts case)



However, his girlfriend at the time managed later to break a record or 2 on the bike.

I thought the records she broke were on a Hinckley Triumph?


Yeah the movie pales in comparison the the book. Who do you know these days that designs and casts not only thier own pistons but also a OHV/OHC head for an old side valve engine.

I know guys who have designed and made their own cranks, made their own crankcases etc

[BarryG]

The biography of Burt Munro by Tim Hanna is excellent. As is his book on John Britten, BTW.

Cheers
Barry

[NordieBoy]

Wasn't Burts record "Streamlined under 1000cc"?

[idleidolidyll]

Kickaha:
I thought they set both records at the same event?

Not according to the original photos I have of the event (taken by Robyn Smith Photography for the Press). I think the solo record was set at an EARLIER date in the same year.
I think they managed to get to Bonneville later as well.



They went faster but they didn't break "his" record as the criteria and classes have changed (much like in Burts case)

True, for them it was a moral victory only.



I thought the records she broke were on a Hinckley Triumph?

I could stand corrected. You are right in that Alice DID break records on the Triumph but I think she also rode the streamliner. Someone must have the info.

[idleidolidyll]

The biography of Burt Munro by Tim Hanna is excellent. As is his book on John Britten, BTW.

Cheers
Barry

Indeed! Tim writes well.
I have both books. Interestingly his book on John Britten was more interesting than the 'official' version. The official version was sanitised.
I knew John and many of the people around him. Reading Tim's book bought back pictures in my mind of the old workshop in Riccarton, Broz, Phil Payne, BEARs Bus Trips etc. There was even a passing mention of a stunt I pulled for the WSB the Britten went to: I dyed my hair Britten colours and Kirsten snapped a shot of me that sat amongst the photos at the factory for quite a while.
The official version is more about the bike than the man IMO. It's a nice coffee table book and with Andrew Strouds signature, it is nice to have in my collection. However, for a stroy of John Britten the Hanna book is fuller.

[Dai]

Indeed! ....There was even a passing mention of a stunt I pulled for the WSB the Britten went to: I dyed my hair Britten colours ....

A few years ago then bro?

[Skunk]

Yes but sitting on the bike. ie over the engine.

[bmz2]

burts record stands in s-f class and is still raced today , burts record of 183.64mph is for streamliner indians 1000cc and under only, so the bike is the fasted indian not the fasted 1000cc streamlinner , his record will stand forever because his bike was 51ci then 56ci and 61ci on his last vist to the lake . new record in this in 2006 , 250+

[idleidolidyll]

A few years ago then bro?

aye, fifteenish if i'm not mistaken

i still see broz on occasion when i'm in the vicinity, married with chillun; who'd ever have thunk it?

[Kickaha]

Not according to the original photos I have of the event (taken by Robyn Smith Photography for the Press). I think the solo record was set at an EARLIER date in the same year.
I think they managed to get to Bonneville later as well.


On the 2nd of July 1955, Russell Wright set a new F.I.M. world speed record of 185 mph on the Tram Road at Swannanoa, near Christchurch, while Bob Burns upped his sidecar record to 163.06 mph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Motorcycles

[Pixie]

I can't remember offhand exactly the class his record stands in but you can't run in it any more.



....Fastest 1920's Indian Scouts ridden by 60 year old New Zealanders named Burt,class

[idleidolidyll]

On the 2nd of July 1955, Russell Wright set a new F.I.M. world speed record of 185 mph on the Tram Road at Swannanoa, near Christchurch, while Bob Burns upped his sidecar record to 163.06 mph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Motorcycles

thanks
not a fan of wikipedia as it isn't really critically peer reviewed but it may be accurate.
you may be right and no, i haven't checked more
that promts me to open the storage fridge in my basement and look at the original negatives again (I may post some here but don't hold yr breath; they're amongst 5000 other negs).
i wonder why the official photographer for the Press in Chch, whose photos I have, only took shots of the sidecar and none of the solo?