Advice re (non) payment for work done

[marty]

I need some advice. I've spoken to my lawyer but are looking for any similar experiences.

In mid-late 2004 I had my house painted (or started at least). The painter had his own business as a well known house wash franchise, and did house painting when not washing (using the same buisness account/name) them. We agreed on an hourly rate, with a capped total.

By Xmas time 2004 the house was nearly finished, at this stage I said that I would do the upstairs windows, but the downstairs trimming needed finishing also. The roof needed another coat, which he was going to do. I offered him $3000 as a progress payment as it was close to Xmas and he was saying how much people owed him etc. He declined! I didn't argue the point as the money was better in my bank than his.

Long periods (like 4 -5 weeks) started passing where I wouldn't see him, but his scaffolding was still at the house. In Mid 2005 all the scaffolding was uplifted - i had taken it down and stored it by this stage, and finished the windows and bits he had missed (not before taking photos of the shit job) The roof never got its 2nd coat.

Then in Dec 2005 we put the house on the market and bought a new place. In Jan 2006 he came over saying that was going up to the islands for a church project, that he had wound his company up, and as my house was for sale could I pay him the full amount as a cash settlement before he left? In 3 days? 'Sure' I said - 'just invoice me and I'll pay it'.

Then today (yes 22 Feb 2007) he shows up on my doorstep asking when I'm going to pay him. 'When you invoice me' I said. Apparantley he can't invoice me as all his records are in storage!

[Grahameeboy]

Can't you just work out what he did and pay him based on agreed rate..sounds like an odd guy but gets ride of him.

[Scouse]

Just aresst him, oh I forgot you cant cos your not a cop anymore

[JMemonic]

Sounds odd, his records are in storage and he has wound the company up so I guess he never intended to put the job through the books in the first place, as was sad pay the guy to get him out of you life but demand a receipt check it gst etc if none is listed you could get nasty and divulge this info to the ird.

[NighthawkNZ]

no invoice no pay..... you need the invoice for your records

[Mom]

no invoice no pay..... you need the invoice for your records

what he said.....there was a contract in place.......he did not fullfil it........you have agreed to pay him out what is owed.........he needs to invoice you for that......problem solved really...dont pay a cent until you have an invoice (preferrably marked "full and final") get him to receipt the invoice if he ever presents one......... dont want this one to come back and bite you later eh!

[Macktheknife]

I would offer him the $3000 you did before, and tell him to submit an invoice for the rest. Generate your own partial payment receipt for the $3k and see if he ever comes back.
You can tell him that is all you are prepared to pay as the contract wasn't completed to spec and let him dispute the balance.
I would say if he has earned a partial payment, and from what you say he has, then don't screw the man over. Remember you still have to live with yourself, and he will come back one day, possibly with Karma.

[Guitana]

This is obviously why he had to shut his buisness he ran it like a brothel!!!
He should give you a receipt for work done!!!
But you should pay up he's the one that has to face IRD if he dosen't declare the earnings dodgy old cash deals ay!!!!!!!

[JimO]

I would offer him the $3000 you did before, and tell him to submit an invoice for the rest. Generate your own partial payment receipt for the $3k and see if he ever comes back.
You can tell him that is all you are prepared to pay as the contract wasn't completed to spec and let him dispute the balance.
I would say if he has earned a partial payment, and from what you say he has, then don't screw the man over. Remember you still have to live with yourself, and he will come back one day, possibly with Karma.

is karma that big guy with the tattoos and baseball bat

[JimO]

you need a paper trail to protect yourself from future problems so no invoice no payment, i have been self employed in the building trade since 1986

[McJim]

If there's no invoice then there's no debt - Statute of limitations in NZ gives him 7 years in which to invoice you.

What the others have said - no wonder his business folded.

My suspicion here is that his business folded owing money and the receivers will want to know about any invoices he raises (Invoices and Sales ledger items are assets - to which receivers have title).

That will be why he wants cash and no invoice. If you pay him money without an invoice you could be assisting him in defrauding the receivers....

[marty]

sorry i finished the story a bit short, but most have got the gist of it. i knew about the 7 years. i'm thinking that i might just give him the progress payment and let him chase the rest - that will cover his employees wages and some of his, but i don't see how i should be responsible (he could have put a lein on my house for when it sold but didn't) for his slack accounting.

[marty]

Just aresst him, oh I forgot you cant cos your not a cop anymore

????? where'd that come from?

[davereid]

You need an invoice, and a receipt. Even if its on a $2 invoice book from paper-plus. It needs his name and trading name, GST No if applicable, and a description of work done, and price. He may have recorded the work in a diary or on time cards, and if he doesnt invoice you, the receivers might ! So you need the paper trail. Telling a receiver you paid him cash, when he's telling them "no you didn't" won't help.

[jrandom]

What the other guys said.

There's no law stating that invoices have to detail the hours he's spent on it, or anything. Doesn't sound like there's any issue agreeing on a price for the work done, right?

It's not hard for him to write out an invoice. Heck, you've probably got his GST number and address somewhere - write one out for him on a notepad, or put it together in Word and print it, and then get him to sign at the bottom, along with a matching receipt for the cash.

That's what I'd do, anyway. He may or may not want copies of them - that doesn't matter. Just CYA and file them yourself.