Whetu Te Hiko [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Dafe

23rd February 2007, 21:47

Whetu Te Hiko

The cowardly bastard that brutally killed the 66 year old school teacher "Lois Dear" in Tokoroa.

FIRST DEGREE MURDERER.

I'm so sick and tired of New Zealanders having to carry the burden of such scum.

Why can we not live with dignity?

Why can we not live by the only fair justice system? - Code of the Gladiators.

An eye for an eye!

Don't send the piece of shit to prison or to home detention with a ninety dollar fine.

Kill the gutless cowardly bastard! The same way he killed the school teacher.

That is justice - Nothing less!

Do it once - Do it right.

In future - Whenever I hear the name Te Hiko, I'll think - COWARD!
A disgrace to his family. An ever bigger disgrace to Mankind!

chanceyy

23rd February 2007, 21:50

life has become a cheap commodity ... rest in peace Lois Dear ..

for her family they have to re-live the hell every day

Quartermile

23rd February 2007, 22:06

No no apparently something like like 15 with parrol after 7 and earler for 'good behavier' based on past similar convictions as this is how the NZ justice system works.

F#%ken bull sh!t if you ask me but somehow we put up with it without taking any major action how GOOD can your friken behavier be you just MURDERED someone!!!!!!!

The NZ justice system is just as spineless as some of these sick BASTARDS!!!

shafty

23rd February 2007, 22:22

With you 100%

Just a co-incidence his brother is doin time for rape and murder of his wife

Waste of space.

Lethal injection would reduce the prison crowding and make a lot of people much happier.

T.W.R

23rd February 2007, 23:08

Waste of space.

Lethal injection would reduce the prison crowding and make a lot of people much happier.

Prick should be swinging from a rope :ar15:

Injection is too easy & fast considering the pain & suffering the low-life scum inflict on others

MyGSXF

23rd February 2007, 23:23

Injection is too easy & fast considering the pain & suffering the low-life scum inflict on others

Yeah!!!! A sloooow & painful death by torture is what this fuckwit deserves!!! :angry:

his brother is doin time for rape and murder of his wife

:gob: you're joking??? good god.. unbelieveable.. :sick:

pixc

23rd February 2007, 23:59

No No NO...ive said it before, put the useless sack of shit on an island and use him as a medical ginnie-pig (SP but its late :)

Highlander

24th February 2007, 00:01

With you 100%
Lethal injection would reduce the prison crowding and make a lot of people much happier.

Why do they use sterile needles to administer these?

Timber020

24th February 2007, 07:43

Just a question, was he scum before he killed the teacher or only after in your honest opinion?

Donor

24th February 2007, 07:47

Why do they use sterile needles to administer these?

And trained IV techs?

Let the trainees have a go - be fun to watch 'em squirm under a bit of impromptu acupuncture!

MSTRS

24th February 2007, 07:48

Just a question, was he scum before he killed the teacher or only after in your honest opinion?

Was already. Guaranteed. They always are.

yungatart

24th February 2007, 08:02

Awww, come on guys! give him a fair go! He was bullied, grew up in a home with alcohol addiction and wasn't loved. What can you expect?

Colapop

24th February 2007, 08:18

The Pastor

24th February 2007, 08:31

We should just send off to aussie, thats what england does isnt it?

35tickets

24th February 2007, 08:55

Whetu Te Hiko
FIRST DEGREE MURDERER.

I'm so sick and tired of New Zealanders having to carry the burden of such scum.

Why can we not live with dignity?

Why can we not live by the only fair justice system? - Code of the Gladiators.

An eye for an eye!

Don't send the piece of shit to prison or to home detention with a ninety dollar fine.

Kill the gutless cowardly bastard! The same way he killed the school teacher.

That is justice - Nothing less!

In future - Whenever I hear the name Te Hiko, I'll think - COWARD!
A disgrace to his family. An ever bigger disgrace to Mankind!

Agree 110% this country is fast going to shit and instead of a criminal in parliment saying don't smack your kids and let them do what the fuck they like....we get this piece of shit murdering school teacher, and further pieces of shit raping tourists while pretending to be cops....fucking get well and truly sick of the crime rate here in NZ:angry:

Someone else said it and i think i mentioned on it yesterday. New Zealand is a beautiful country to live in but fuck the justice system here needs an overhaulin' and criminals need touger sentences!!!! Fuck they give you life in Thailand or the death penalty for smuggling in little amounts of drugs.

Of course the death penalty will never come here.....too many people will cry foul and kick up a stink and then nothing gets done, and people will just keep on murdering and raping and breaking into homes to steal and fund their bullshit little drug habit.:angry:

crashe

24th February 2007, 08:57

Incidentally, what is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder - If you intend to kill someone isn't that murder?

Im not condoning what this dude did. He took a life he must pay for that crime.

But did he go in the classroom with the intention to murder Lois Dear?

He went there to take her car keys as he was going to steal her car.
She just happened to come across him stealing them.......
and was going to ring the police.

He paniced and tried to stop her............ from calling the police.

Yes he ended up killing her...... and yes he will do time.....

Life now is a minimum of 17 years before parole.
So he wont be going up before the parole board for 17 years.

In the court room he hung his head, he couldn't even look up at his own family...... he has been shamed....... and he knows he has done wrong.

Sure his brother may also be inside for another crime.....
Just cos one family member is inside for a nasty crime doesn't make all family members scum.

We do not know his back ground....... or what he was like...
I am sure it will come out in time.

But he hasnt allowed it to drag out for the victim's family..... he pleaded guilty. Which is good.

Now Lois Dear's family can move on......

Yes a life was taken for a set of car keys..... This guy did a stupid thing and he too is paying... as is his family, as is Lois Dear's family.

Quartermile

24th February 2007, 09:38

17 years Vs The rest of her life and alot of her familys???

THAT is not paying!!! :angry2:

Colapop

24th February 2007, 09:40

It won't be 17 years though, will it? 10 years max. Either a very short life or just plain Bullshit.

Quartermile

24th February 2007, 09:43

Hope fully he will get packed with his own sh!t while in there, know what I mean

Ixion

24th February 2007, 09:54

Incidentally, what is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder - If you intend to kill someone isn't that murder?

There is no such thing in NZ law as "X degree" murder. Those who speak of it have been wathing too many yank TV shows. We only have "murder". Pure and simple. No "first degree" "second degree" "third degree".

jahrasti

24th February 2007, 10:27

Just a question, was he scum before he killed the teacher or only after in your honest opinion?

He was a P fiend loser well before. Ask anyone from tokoroa.

BuFfY

24th February 2007, 10:28

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle

Pixie

24th February 2007, 10:48

Awww, come on guys! give him a fair go! He was bullied, grew up in a home with alcohol addiction and wasn't loved. What can you expect?

Sue says his mum smacked him

sunhuntin

24th February 2007, 11:17

thing is, her family can not move on. they will live with this for at least the rest of the lives of those in the youngest generation [her grandkids for example]
its been 2 years since a very close friend of mine was murdered in cold blood. she was also raped, both vaginally and anally. ive heard more which doesnt bear thinking about, it just makes me sick. i will never move on, so i cant imagine how her family feel....she is daily in my thoughts.

these murdering scumbags need to be lined up and shot. get rid of the pricks. whats the point of keeping them alive? so in 10 years, they can play nice, get let out, and do another burton? i dont think so.
you take a life... be prepared to pay with yours. some countries, they cut your hand off if caught stealing.

Guitana

24th February 2007, 11:31

If I were his parents I would be handing myself into the police what sort of a background did this guy and his Rapist brother have to turn out like that???
If my child had done this he would'nt have to worry about the law I would do the job myself!!
These pricks need to start taking responsibility for the scum they're unleashing on the public!!!

Colapop

24th February 2007, 11:46

There is no such thing in NZ law as "X degree" murder. Those who speak of it have been wathing too many yank TV shows. We only have "murder". Pure and simple. No "first degree" "second degree" "third degree".
Thank-you for the clarification. So, Manslaughter is when the prosecutor canot prove intent?

Ixion

24th February 2007, 11:54

Pretty much. Murder is killing "with malice aforethought". Someone died and the perpetrator meant to do them harm (even if they didn't actually intend to kill them - if you give someone the bash and they die, it's still murder even if you only intended to hurt them)

Manslaughter is when someone dies as a result of a criminal act, or as a result of gross negligence, but the perpetrator did not have any actual intention of causing harm. That'svery simplified, and IANAL.

Macktheknife

24th February 2007, 12:17

I have no problem with the death sentence, provided there is no doubt about the guilt of the person. In this instance he has confessed and plead guilty, cool.... hang him, shoot him, inject him, feed him to the lions, I don't care.
Unfortunately if that happened, no-one else would ever plead guilty, so we could never be certain.
Instead, why not just put them into a labour camp and work them to death. Much more productive, they can earn their own keep, doesn't cost the taxpayer so much, and maybe they will start to understand why everyone else hates the bastards who think they can just take whatever they want without having to work for it.

Timber020

24th February 2007, 17:31

He was a P fiend loser well before. Ask anyone from tokoroa.

I havent seen Whitu in 6 years, and I have known him since he was a toddler. All of the kids of my family went to school with a member of his. I remember him well, and his brothers and his sister (who was good friends with my youngest sister). I didnt know that one of his brothers had been done for rape, do you know which one as from memory there were 8 kids I think. And whitu was the youngest.

His father and mother used to come to school and teach us everything from Maori craft to survival. If there was a school camp, his father was often there helping out in any way he could. The Bash was liberally given out in his family, his brother who I was in the same class with had a crooked arm from having it broken when younger and not having it set right. The brothers or sister I know of are hard working easy going guys who I would not hestitate to work with or employ.

When I first heard he had killed someone I knew it would have to do with one of NZ's worst 2 drugs. Drink or P. (look at the murder statistics around both.) Although I hadnt seen or heard anything about him in years, I couldnt see him doing something like that cold. But people change.

I read in the latest listener how a guy killed his other brother because he threatened there mum. He was so drunk when he did it (with a kitchen knife) he woke up in a cell the next morning and when told his brother had been killed he asked who did it, although he was covered in blood.

Im not blaming the drug or drink for this, and I dont think theres much of a right to life for anyone who kills somebody in this fashion, especially someone as down right lovely as Lois Dear. For this I would throw the switch myself.

But thje call to write off his whole family is just soapboxing, and as much as the idea of a lynchmob or vigilante assasination crew REALLY tempts me at times, its threads like this that makes me think theres more to the issue than posturing.

Scouse

24th February 2007, 17:47

It's a useless good for nothing cunt plain and simple just execute it

shafty

24th February 2007, 17:55

The other aspect is................... what we are left with, if you think of the scales of justice:

A drug dependant loser still here

Yet a person who has contributed so much, GONE

Robbo

24th February 2007, 18:12

Lynch the Fucken Bastard, show him the same care and compassion as he showed to Lois Dear........NONE
Scum like this don't deserve to even breathe the air that we live in. And he's not the only one. If that Parasite Bradfords bill goes through then this is what we have to look foward to with the current and future generations of Un Disciplined kids because we are no longer allowed to correct them as we see fit as parents, based on our own up bringing experiences when there was respect and caring for our fellow human beings.
Still, i guess that the Government knows best, don't they??? :angry:

scracha

24th February 2007, 18:14

Fak we outsource everything else so why not outsource the "long term" prisoner scum to India or somewhere where they won't be costing us such a fortune.

The Pastor

24th February 2007, 18:25

This thread brings up an interesting point, Is it ok to kill a killer, and If not what would a suitable punishment be?

I would suggest a new type of prison for life offenders, Chain and a desk make them do paperwork for the govberment or somthing like that, 10hrs a day, after that they go for a 5k run and then are locked in a cell overnight, think of the savings the gumberment could save!

Scouse

24th February 2007, 18:29

Fak we outsource everything else so why not outsource the "long term" prisoner scum to India or somewhere where they won't be costing us such a fortune.Now there,s merit to that Idea send them off to a hot filthy sweat hole to die of maleria or summat

Quartermile

24th February 2007, 22:09

Apparently they get SKY in thier cells, I know alot of hard working honset NZ familys that can't afford sky TV or maybe some other lusries(spelling:scratch:) that these bastards probably get!! :mad:

avgas

24th February 2007, 22:36

Nah put him in a pit with all the other psyco's : fight to the death and the winner gets to eat all the people he likes.

Colapop

25th February 2007, 09:53

I've been advocating that for awhile now... concrete tank justice - They all fight and then it's only costs you one bullet for the winner... Amazing how much they'll fight if you withhold food....

scracha

25th February 2007, 10:22

Now there,s merit to that Idea send them off to a hot filthy sweat hole to die of maleria or summat

Think of the money we'd save on prisons. Less money wasted contracting out to Group 4 Security etc. I'm sure Commodore Frank Bainimarama or 3rd world countries like Bangladesh would embrace lucrative contracts to look after our $hittier members of society. Auntie Helen could even go on some jaunts and waffle about how we're helping 3rd world economies.

I'm not talking about the shoplifters or 1st time offending burglars etc who have a chance of "rehabilitation" but the real deviants. Would bring a new depth to "3 strikes and you're out".

James Deuce

25th February 2007, 10:26

Yay! Another vigilante thread!

You guys really need to go on some self awareness courses.

shafty

25th February 2007, 10:29

Think of the money we'd save on prisons. Less money wasted contracting out to Group 4 Security etc. I'm sure Commodore Frank Bainimarama or 3rd world countries like Bangladesh would embrace lucrative contracts to look after our $hittier members of society. Auntie Helen could even go on some jaunts and waffle about how we're helping 3rd world economies.

I'm not talking about the shoplifters or 1st time offending burglars etc who have a chance of "rehabilitation" but the real deviants. Would bring a new depth to "3 strikes and you're out".

I JUST LOVE IT!

MSTRS

25th February 2007, 10:52

Yay! Another vigilante thread!

You guys really need to go on some self awareness courses.

Thanks Jim, but I'm very aware of myself. It's the lawmakers of this country that need to 'go on a course'...one that deals with reality.

Quartermile

25th February 2007, 13:06

Thanks Jim, but I'm very aware of myself. It's the lawmakers of this country that need to 'go on a course'...one that deals with reality.

Yea rather than homosexuality :laugh:

Hitcher

25th February 2007, 14:43

Of course the death penalty will never come here.....too many people will cry foul and kick up a stink and then nothing gets done, and people will just keep on murdering and raping and breaking into homes to steal and fund their bullshit little drug habit.

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that shows that having a death penalty deters people from murder, rape or any other serious crime against people. And I don't know any country that imposes the death penalty for burglary.

The death penalty is nothing more than statutory revenge. As such it is barbarous and unworthy of anybody who aspires to be part of an enlightened or civilised society.

As long as this oxygen thief never walks freely, I will be happy.

25th February 2007, 14:53

1. But did he go in the classroom with the intention to murder Lois Dear?

2. He went there to take her car keys as he was going to steal her car.
She just happened to come across him stealing

3. In the court room he hung his head, he couldn't even look up at his own family...... he has been shamed....... and he knows he has done wrong.

4. Sure his brother may also be inside for another crime.....
Just cos one family member is inside for a nasty crime doesn't make all family members scum.

5. But he hasnt allowed it to drag out for the victim's family..... he pleaded guilty. Which is good.

6. Now Lois Dear's family can move on......

7.
Yes a life was taken for a set of car keys..... This guy did a stupid thing and he too is paying... as is his family, as is Lois Dear's family.

Sorry if this sounds harsh crashe but you've confused me? Which one was good and which one evil? One of them was a saintly elderly person who devoted her life to caring for and educating children. The other was a opportunistic thief who didn't give a damn about robbing, attacking and killing an elderly frail woman.

back to you observations.
1. No obviously Bugs Bunny did that. Te Hiko must have been busy painting the local church while having a break from finding a cure for cancer and all the other warm lovely stuff I'm sure he contributed to our society.
2. Is intention to steal now a saintly virtue? To me it's the dispictable actions of a scumbag. You make it sound like it was her crime and her fault to find him stealing from her.
3. & 5 Well that makes it just fine & dandy. He deserves a medal and should make next years Honours list. Would he have hung his head in shame and admitted the crime - IF HE HADN'T BEEN CAUGHT! (and proven by dna)
4. Looks like this family is doing it's best to prove you wrong
6. Can they have a pleasant chat with her over a cup of tea, enjoy a family picnic with her, Christmas...
7. This is probably your comment that got be riled. Trivialising his act with a word like stupid. There is a difference between stealing and murdering and stupid. Stupid = lack of common sense, trivial, silly or childish. None of that comes close to explaining or justifying murder.

doc

25th February 2007, 15:18

Im not condoning what this dude did. He took a life he must pay for that crime.

But did he go in the classroom with the intention to murder Lois Dear?

He went there to take her car keys as he was going to steal her car.
She just happened to come across him stealing them.......
and was going to ring the police.

He paniced and tried to stop her............ from calling the police.

Yes he ended up killing her...... and yes he will do time.....

Life now is a minimum of 17 years before parole.
So he wont be going up before the parole board for 17 years.

In the court room he hung his head, he couldn't even look up at his own family...... he has been shamed....... and he knows he has done wrong.

Sure his brother may also be inside for another crime.....
Just cos one family member is inside for a nasty crime doesn't make all family members scum.

We do not know his back ground....... or what he was like...
I am sure it will come out in time.

But he hasnt allowed it to drag out for the victim's family..... he pleaded guilty. Which is good.

Now Lois Dear's family can move on......

Yes a life was taken for a set of car keys..... This guy did a stupid thing and he too is paying... as is his family, as is Lois Dear's family.

Come on you are just trying to wind us up aren't you ? I'll be interested in how compassionate your comments would be after he did this to your mother.

Ixion

25th February 2007, 17:57

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that shows that having a death penalty deters people from murder, rape or any other serious crime against people. And I don't know any country that imposes the death penalty for burglary.

The death penalty is nothing more than statutory revenge. As such it is barbarous and unworthy of anybody who aspires to be part of an enlightened or civilised society.

As long as this oxygen thief never walks freely, I will be happy.

Singapore. And it's statutory efficiency , not revenge. No reason to continue membership of society, therefore terminate. Simple logic. Fortunately I have never aspired to part of an enlightened or civilised society. The one we've got will do fine, just needs tidying up. Starting with the elimination of unproductive parasites - like this one.

doc

25th February 2007, 18:03

Patrick

25th February 2007, 18:06

Your evidence doesn't take into account that the perpetrator once executed doesn't ever do it again. Case closed.

And once dead, he costs the taxpayer absolutely nothing instead of bed and lodgings for the next 20 or so years...

Robbo

25th February 2007, 18:21

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that shows that having a death penalty deters people from murder, rape or any other serious crime against people. And I don't know any country that imposes the death penalty for burglary.

The death penalty is nothing more than statutory revenge. As such it is barbarous and unworthy of anybody who aspires to be part of an enlightened or civilised society.

As long as this oxygen thief never walks freely, I will be happy.

Absolute Bullshit!!! Had that bastard Burton been put down after commiting his first murder then we would'nt have lost another innocent citizen.
Same goes to all those other murderers, hang the bloody lot. Your concerns should be directed to the victims and their families, not the worthless scum that carry out these henous crimes with no thoughts about how barbarous their actions are.
Locking them up for life (yeah right) is a cost that we as nz taxpayers do not deserve to be burdeoned with. :angry2:

Timber020

25th February 2007, 19:14

Costs society plenty when an innocent person is executed, which does happen to often. whats the point of killing people for killing innocent people, when the state kills innocent people itself because they were wrongly convicted.

One thing to say its terrible for the family of someone murdered by someone who will spend the next so long in jail, but what about families whose relations are killed by the state. Imagine how the family of Arthur Allen Thomas would have felt. His kids growing up knowing that the state murdered there dad because of a police fix up.

Do you trust the police to handle the evidence that your life depends on?

BuFfY

25th February 2007, 19:42

What if the person confesses, is caught on camera and is identified by witnesses.... is it ok then for them to be executed?

Hitcher

25th February 2007, 20:05

What if the person confesses, is caught on camera and is identified by witnesses.... is it ok then for them to be executed?

What do you think happens?

BUNGY

25th February 2007, 21:37

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there. The was an article in the paper a while back. Lady killed her baby or something but came out of jail saying how easy it was, even admitted that it was the first time she tried P.

Quartermile

25th February 2007, 21:46

Bet it was the first time she tried Sky and had a good meal too what ever happened to no TV, bread and butter

Watching a programme on discovery(not in prison) called FBI files a guy robs a bank and shoots a couple of people in the chaos guess what he got.....

800 years no chance of parol gotta love U.S sometimes

SPman

26th February 2007, 00:01

Just give him a CBR1000 and no helmet - job done in a few minutes.......

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there.
So, you know this, from personal experience?

Or hearsay, like all the other rants!

It's nice to know we live in a civilised caring society, evidenced by the flurry of concern for his wellbeing, being shown on here...

Shadows

26th February 2007, 00:33

There is no such thing in NZ law as "X degree" murder. Those who speak of it have been wathing too many yank TV shows. We only have "murder". Pure and simple. No "first degree" "second degree" "third degree".

Yep, second and third degree murders get called "manslaughter". Which, incidentally, is why NZ is considered to be such a safe place to live in when incorrectly compared with the States.

Patrick

26th February 2007, 07:28

It's nice to know we live in a civilised caring society, evidenced by the flurry of concern for his wellbeing, being shown on here...

Oops... my bad... Just to clarify...

I don't care whatsoever for the wellbeing for this piece of shite... I wouldn't give him the steam off my mine. My civilised caring goes out to the old dear and her family and friends, school kids she taught etc.

Finn

26th February 2007, 07:36

Come on you are just trying to wind us up aren't you ? I'll be interested in how compassionate your comments would be after he did this to your mother.

Crashe has got a mother?

Guitana

26th February 2007, 07:37

The thing that concerns me is that when these arseholes are in prison they still are able to intimidate the prison gaurds families,did anyone see the Paper on saturday! The prisons in NZ are too soft and these pricks are given the run of the roost! The only disadvantage of being in prison is that they can't run their Illegal buisness as well as they used to on the outside!
But if you're able to swallow a cell phone whole or ram it so far up your arse that no one is able to find it with a cavity search then it's buisness as usual!!
These inmates sit around all day doing fuck all but plan how to commit crime more efficiently when they get out!!
They need to locate the prisons in a quarry and make these inmates break rocks all day then they will be too fucken tired to harrass the staff and plot more crime!!!

Hitcher

26th February 2007, 07:39

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there.

And the last time you were incarcerated for an extended period, if at all, was when?

Paul in NZ

26th February 2007, 08:18

You all know what my opinion is. Unforunately it's too late for this person but seriously - we need to look at why this sort of crap seems to run in certain families and intervene...

Oh why am I bothering to even post this or log in anymore...

Finn

26th February 2007, 08:55

Oh why am I bothering to even post this or log in anymore...

Because you can't help yourself and you feel it is your duty to remind us all of the atrocities that were committed against the maori people and that we must all feel guilt and shame?

Hey Paul, do you agree with Tuirangihuia Teehaa requesting that immigration stop allowing Europeans into NZ because they are browning down the place?

scracha

26th February 2007, 10:59

They need to locate the prisons in a quarry and make these inmates break rocks all day then they will be too fucken tired to harrass the staff and plot more crime!!!

Or have them sat sending personalised spam out to the Russians, Chinese, Yanks and Polish. Then at least they could earn some money and we'd be getting a little revenge for the spam they send us.

buellbabe

26th February 2007, 11:24

Personally I reckon abolishing the death penalty was a big mistake... (oh BTW the last person to hang in NZ was innocent but by the time that was discovered it was too late... ).

Of course guilt has been well and truely established in this case, what a shame we don't live by the ol' eye-for-an-eye tooth-for-a tooth type law...

Anyway its good that he pleaded guilty and therefore the case won't be dragged out too much longer but I can't help but wonder, if the death penalty was mandatory for murder do ya still think he would have pleaded guilty???

Guitana

26th February 2007, 12:07

Or have them sat sending personalised spam out to the Russians, Chinese, Yanks and Polish. Then at least they could earn some money and we'd be getting a little revenge for the spam they send us.

Yeah spam the fuckers!!!!

Mr Merde

26th February 2007, 12:25

Yes, the little bastard is scum. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with the death penalty. I have only one problem with the death penalty - is the person who would kill this scumbag a killer? Or is the government that would approve that killing, sanctioning murder?

Incidentally, what is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder - If you intend to kill someone isn't that murder?

I seem to remeber reading, a long time ago, the biography of the last hangman in the UK. I seem to remeber that after each execution he was brought up on charges of murder (unlawful killing) and was aquitted.

I dont think we have 2nd degree murder under NZ law. Correct me but I think in this country it is called manslaughter.

1st degree murder is meaning to kill someone
2nd degree is unitentionally killing someone during the commission of a crime

I think this is how the US views the difference.

Do correct me if I am wrong.

mstriumph

26th February 2007, 12:32

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that shows that having a death penalty deters people from murder, rape or any other serious crime against people. ....................

.............and overwhelming evidence that it stops recidivism, 100%.

...............................................
As long as this oxygen thief never walks freely, I will be happy.

awww c'MON .... there's about as much chance of him never again 'walking freely' as there is of my being able to teach my cat to crochet ......

mstriumph

26th February 2007, 12:53

..........
Do you trust the police to handle the evidence that your life depends on?

this is the other part of it

- i don't trust the authorities to act properly on my behalf - because the authorities do not consider themselves responsible to the people that elected them ...... [shades of Animal Farm :mellow: ]

- anyway, i don't believe it's the state's affair to punish or forgive people that hurt those that i'm responsible for .......... under any system of fairness or justice, that would have to be down to me.

the state usurps far too much responsibility from the individual - i suppose it finds us easier to govern if it saps our self-reliance and gets us to rely on government for every little thing?

Paul in NZ

26th February 2007, 13:10

Because you can't help yourself and you feel it is your duty to remind us all of the atrocities that were committed against the maori people and that we must all feel guilt and shame?

Huh? Atrocites were committed on both sides BUT in the overall scheme of things both sides went to great lengths NOT to go completely ballistic. Something we can ALL be proud of. I feel no shame at all, I would like Maori to feel proud of their culture as well and most of the revitalisation of their culture that has occured in the last couple of decades has brought nothing but good. The not being able to help myself - yeah - probably have to put my hand up for that one..... Slighly better than P addiction...

Hey Paul, do you agree with Tuirangihuia Teehaa requesting that immigration stop allowing Europeans into NZ because they are browning down the place?

Hard to say without sitting down with the woman and finding out what she really means as opposed to what is reported. A lot of Maori party policy is warped by the time it gets into the media. If we go by this report...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3973886a11.html

Surely she is a politician doing what she is paid to do and representing her voters and (maybe selfishly) defending her power base. If she wants to discuss immigration I'm all for it (the discussion, not immigration) and good on her! Personally she leaves me cold but there are some good buggers in the Maori party with some good ideas so you need not worry - they will never get into power..

Finn

26th February 2007, 13:21

Something we can ALL be proud of. I feel no shame at all, I would like Maori to feel proud of their culture as well and most of the revitalisation of their culture that has occured in the last couple of decades has brought nothing but good.

Hard to say without sitting down with the woman and finding out what she really means as opposed to what is reported. A lot of Maori party policy is warped by the time it gets into the media. If we go by this report...

I'm certainly not proud of what they've achieved and neither are a lot of maori. Also, I'd really like to know what maori culture is exactly apart from what I see on Police 10 7.

That's the problem - maori party policy. There shouldn't be any. Having a maori party is racist. It's just like the Greens - pointless.

SPman

26th February 2007, 13:42

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there

and again on that point .....

"…….so a culture of lock ‘em up and throw away the keys develops, and within that culture the people who have to look after those prisoners end up not caring either. So we have a society that doesn’t care about the violent environment we send prisoners to, and the people employed to run the prisons don’t bother doing the right thing because they know that society doesn’t give a toss about the human trash that ends up getting dumped with them. This leads to the type of problems we’ve seen recently, corrupt prison staff, racist prison staff, a culture of intense and under reported violence, rapes, and of course Liam Ashley getting strangled in the back of a police van because no one could be bothered following the rules, because no one in the public cares about prisoners welfare, so the staff don’t either."

And of course gang rule in some prisons, because, again, no one gives a toss, as long as “they” are all behind bars and out of sight

Yep - sure sounds "soft"

Patrick

26th February 2007, 13:42

.............and overwhelming evidence that it stops recidivism, 100%.

awww c'MON .... there's about as much chance of him never again 'walking freely' as there is of my being able to teach my cat to crochet ......

Completely correct on both counts!!! Mr HITCHER.... what say you now???

Mind you, some cats are clever little bastidges... And Mr BURTON will be released well within my life time....

Patrick

26th February 2007, 14:13

and again on that point .....

"…….so a culture of lock ‘em up and throw away the keys develops, and within that culture the people who have to look after those prisoners end up not caring either. So we have a society that doesn’t care about the violent environment we send prisoners to, and the people employed to run the prisons don’t bother doing the right thing because they know that society doesn’t give a toss about the human trash that ends up getting dumped with them. This leads to the type of problems we’ve seen recently, corrupt prison staff, racist prison staff, a culture of intense and under reported violence, rapes, and of course Liam Ashley getting strangled in the back of a police van because no one could be bothered following the rules, because no one in the public cares about prisoners welfare, so the staff don’t either."

And of course gang rule in some prisons, because, again, no one gives a toss, as long as “they” are all behind bars and out of sight

Yep - sure sounds "soft"

You can't be serious, this is a wind up, right??? You got me...:shutup:

They have all sorts of education and courses they can do in there... but ONLY if they want to...free medical and dental, all paid for normally by the victims and their families and the law abiding hard workers who have done no wrong.

The wardens do their best with them, but still get shit thrown at them (actual and metaphorically)...

Corrupt prison staff? From being threatened with the bash unless they let Joe Arsewipe visit them unhindered by searches when he brings in the drug supply...?

Racist prison staff? When I last looked, wardens were all colours....unless you are talking about the Chinese warden who called the Triad gang banger who threw a turd at him a "chink?"

As for Liam, some rules were not followed, but hey, he was already choosing his own path there, just like ALL those in there... NO ONE gets remanded in custody on their first offence of nicking cars... He had some history already and it didn't stop him, did it? I guess he has stopped now....

Gangs rule in prison because they are allowed to continue their behaviour in there... no one is allowed to stop them because it might hurt their feelings...

Geez, only one colour TV flat screen in their one room heated floor cell, with three good meals a day, exercise equipment, computor, drugs galore, visits from family and friends, must be real tough on them...

Then again, what do the victims and their families get?

Oh yeah, thats right... the victims "got it" already.... they get visits to the graveside/hospital bedside, whatever....

The families get the joy of seeing the killer/rapist whatever grow to massive sizes from his healthy eating and weight training, getting released to do it all again somewhere, sometime, someplace...

Yep, Ms Triumph has it right... the evidence is undisputed and cannot be argued against... those who kill and are disposed of, NEVER do it again...

Its been said before, make prison life undesireable so they don't want to go back in, which is not how it is now. Imagine the staunch gang bangers being made to dress up in pink frilly overalls, doing hard labour every day to earn their bread and water and an occasional worm ridden apple...

spudchucka

26th February 2007, 14:26

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there.

Punitively speaking you are probably correct. However, at least that person, once imprisoned, is no longer circulating within society collecting more and more victims.

Deano

26th February 2007, 14:37

... And Mr BURTON will be released well within my life time....

This is ridiculous isn't it ? Two murders and will still get to walk (limp) free again ?

Finn

26th February 2007, 14:39

This is ridiculous isn't it ? Two murders and will still get to walk (limp) free again ?

But the 1 in 10,000 that doesn't re offend makes Helen look good in the eyes of her voters and the UN.

Lias

26th February 2007, 14:49

To quote a a song

We need a stronger government
Bring back capital punishment
Hang 'em, hang 'em, hang 'em high
You watch those fucking bastards die

Hitcher

26th February 2007, 15:01

This is ridiculous isn't it ? Two murders and will still get to walk (limp) free again ?

On what information are you basing such a prediction?

Finn

26th February 2007, 15:03

On what information are you basing such a prediction?

Hitcher, you can't spin your way out of this one. NZ's track record on this subject is disturbing.

ManDownUnder

26th February 2007, 15:30

what a shame we don't live by the ol' eye-for-an-eye tooth-for-a tooth type law...

Respectfully disagree - I'm not going to stoop to his level.

If he's guilty... put him in a chain gang so we get some benefit from him. There's a few years left in him yet.

Patrick

26th February 2007, 15:34

Hitcher, you can't spin your way out of this one. NZ's track record on this subject is disturbing.

Aint that the truth.... Preventative Detention is not like, for the rest of his natural days... He may be an oldish codger by the time he gets out, but he will be released, if the drugs in prisons don't finish him off.... I live in hope that they do fix him good............

Paul in NZ

26th February 2007, 15:35

I'm certainly not proud of what they've achieved and neither are a lot of maori. Also, I'd really like to know what maori culture is exactly apart from what I see on Police 10 7.

That's the problem - maori party policy. There shouldn't be any. Having a maori party is racist. It's just like the Greens - pointless.

Christ you talk some crap...

OK - no maori party - sweet. Business round table - no sorry, can't have groups of people with specialist aims and a select membership base getting together to try and influence things can we? Hmm.. Better ditch the labour party, hell ALL political parties and outlaw the ganges too. Army has to go as well.

The maori party has every right to exist and to strive for the betterment of maori people. Some of their policy is actually pretty sensible if you take the time to listen.

As for their culture? I guess you missed the Kapa Haka National champs that were on last weekend?

Not all maori are bad - yes there is a much higher percentage of Maori population in jail etc etc but perhaps the way forward is to applaud the good things Maori are doing for Maori.

Personally - I shoot the cunt that killed the school teacher in a second - but not because he is a maori.

We have arrived at this sorry situation because we are all greedy and selfish. Finns OK - he can afford bigger walls than us but it's just a delaying tactic.

riffer

26th February 2007, 15:39

But the 1 in 10,000 that doesn't re offend makes Helen look good in the eyes of her voters and the UN.

Strange you say that. Listener article of last week claimed recidivism rates were 10% for murderers.

How do you explain your widely divergent claim?

riffer

26th February 2007, 15:40

The maori party has every right to exist and to strive for the betterment of maori people. Some of their policy is actually pretty sensible if you take the time to listen... Not all maori are bad - yes there is a much higher percentage of Maori population in jail etc etc but perhaps the way forward is to applaud the good things Maori are doing for Maori.

And maybe the time has come to look at marae justice as well.

Patrick

26th February 2007, 15:42

Strange you say that. Listener article of last week claimed recidivism rates were 10% for murderers.

How do you explain your widely divergent claim?

The other 89% are still in jail

Patrick

26th February 2007, 15:43

And maybe the time has come to look at marae justice as well.

Different laws for people based on skin type... rings a familiar bell for some reason...

Deano

26th February 2007, 15:44

On what information are you basing such a prediction?

Hearsay only from what Patrick said in an earlier post - it wasn't a prediction it was a question

I was under the impression Patrick was a cop or ex cop, but could be wrong.

Aint that the truth.... Preventative Detention is not like, for the rest of his natural days... He may be an oldish codger by the time he gets out, but he will be released, if the drugs in prisons don't finish him off.... I live in hope that they do fix him good............

Finn

26th February 2007, 15:54

We have arrived at this sorry situation because we are all greedy and selfish. Finns OK - he can afford bigger walls than us but it's just a delaying tactic.

Greedy and selfish? The vast majority of NZ'ers are struggling to make ends meet. Tell them they're greedy and selfish. You're about as out of touch as Helen fucken Clark, so tell me Paul, is it an unhealthy dose of academic ideology that's clouding your judgment?

If I can afford bigger walls it's because I worked my arse off to have the money to build them. So I don't appreciate having to pay for walls to be built for people who sit at home playing PS2 pumping out babies like its a fucken competition.

Don't give me that "all maori's aren't bad" shit. We're not at kindergarten.

Finn

26th February 2007, 15:59

Strange you say that. Listener article of last week claimed recidivism rates were 10% for murderers.

How do you explain your widely divergent claim?

You know there's some things you shouldn't admit in public. One of them is that you read the Listener.

Scouse

26th February 2007, 16:14

As for their culture? I guess you missed the Kapa Haka National champs that were on last weekend?yea well so did I thats gotta be the most boring shit to sit down and watch

Paul in NZ

26th February 2007, 16:35

Greedy and selfish? The vast majority of NZ'ers are struggling to make ends meet. Tell them they're greedy and selfish. You're about as out of touch as Helen fucken Clark, so tell me Paul, is it an unhealthy dose of academic ideology that's clouding your judgment?

If I can afford bigger walls it's because I worked my arse off to have the money to build them. So I don't appreciate having to pay for walls to be built for people who sit at home playing PS2 pumping out babies like its a fucken competition.

Don't give me that "all maori's aren't bad" shit. We're not at kindergarten.

Well you are just plain wrong... I'm actually one of those people struggling to make ends meet and I grew up really working class so I bloody know all about that shit mate. Been there got the tee shirt and trust me - I'm as dumb as a ditch and the least academic person you will meet (I had to look up how to spell academic).

There are a hell of a lot of Maori people working their arse off to build a better life for themselves and their families and they spend fuck all time playing on playstations. I've worked with a few of them and their valueset is not the same as yours and possibly mine but thats neither a good thing nor is it a bad thing. It just is!

As a society we have been sold the big capalist dream and given enough of the carrot to make us believe it will build a better society - it won't. Maori are looking after number 1. Who can blame them - oh yeah thats right.

Finn

26th February 2007, 17:04

There are a hell of a lot of Maori people working their arse off to build a better life for themselves and their families and they spend fuck all time playing on playstations. I've worked with a few of them and their valueset is not the same as yours and possibly mine but thats neither a good thing nor is it a bad thing. It just is!

As a society we have been sold the big capalist dream and given enough of the carrot to make us believe it will build a better society - it won't. Maori are looking after number 1. Who can blame them - oh yeah thats right.

Well good for your friends but unfortunately there's another percentage sucking this country dry and you're right, it's not their fault. Givers get takers.

No Paul, Capitalism is an economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism encourages private investment and business, compared to a government-controlled economy. Investors in these private companies (i.e. shareholders) also own the firms and are known as capitalists. In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labour for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated.

In others words, handouts and special privilages for doing nothing is not the capitalist way.

mstriumph

26th February 2007, 17:34

............... no sorry, can't have groups of people with specialist aims and a select membership base getting together ...................................

is there an echo in here?

this thread is becoming a replay of the '101 reasons for/against female KBer rides ........... ' thread :crazy:

doc

26th February 2007, 17:49

Well good for your friends but unfortunately there's another percentage sucking this country dry and you're right, it's not their fault. Givers get takers.

No Paul, Capitalism is an economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism encourages private investment and business, compared to a government-controlled economy. Investors in these private companies (i.e. shareholders) also own the firms and are known as capitalists. In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labour for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated.

In others words, handouts and special privilages for doing nothing is not the capitalist way.

But thats the problem Labour is trying to balance Capitalism with Socialism. Like Bob Jones said sort of like trying "To pluck the golden goose to get the most amount of feathers with the least amount of hissing."

Hitcher

26th February 2007, 18:32

Is it just me, or has this thread got more than a bit off topic?

Finn

26th February 2007, 19:14

Is it just me, or has this thread got more than a bit off topic?

No Hitcher, it's just you. Cause and effect.

Hitcher

26th February 2007, 19:19

No Hitcher, it's just you. Cause and effect.

My relief is unbounded.

doc

26th February 2007, 19:22

What was the topic again ? The news has finished and I have trouble concentrating after that.

Finn

26th February 2007, 19:25

My relief is unbounded.

Put it back in your pants you dirty old man.

Hitcher

26th February 2007, 19:29

Put it back in your pants you dirty old man.

Are you saying that the term "coming in short pants" has nothing to do with the wearing of clothing?

Paul in NZ

26th February 2007, 20:37

[I]No Paul, Capitalism is an economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism encourages private investment and business, compared to a government-controlled economy. Investors in these private companies (i.e. shareholders) also own the firms and are known as capitalists. In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labour for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated.

Wow - As an obvious academic you should have included the reference source you copied that from or else i will have to give you a failing mark.

:innocent:

Finn

26th February 2007, 20:44

Wow - As an obvious academic you should have included the reference source you copied that from or else i will have to give you a failing mark.

:innocent:

I left school in the 5th form but Dover taught me how to Google.

Ixion

26th February 2007, 20:57

I'm not quite clear how all this related to a scumbag who bludgeoned a woman to death. He happened to be Maori, but , by the same token , he was male , too. Should we reread the various previous posts , substituting "male" for "Maori"?

Sometimes, a scumbag is just a scumbag. Tout court. You can't draw societal inferences from what it does.

Toaster

26th February 2007, 21:07

Yeah!!!! A sloooow & painful death by torture is what this fuckwit deserves!!! :angry:

:gob: you're joking??? good god.. unbelieveable.. :sick:

Nice family huh?!

Quartermile

26th February 2007, 21:08

There seems to be alot more scumbags from a certain ethnicity

Ixion

26th February 2007, 21:11

Ture. And from a certain gender also.

The_Dover

26th February 2007, 21:14

Ture. And from a certain gender also.

don't be such a misogynist Les.

not all bitches are fuckin psychotic.

Quartermile

26th February 2007, 21:43

Depends if they're in a mall or not

Shadows

26th February 2007, 22:37

Its been said before, make prison life undesireable so they don't want to go back in, which is not how it is now. Imagine the staunch gang bangers being made to dress up in pink frilly overalls...

Funnily enough I watched an article on telly about a prison in the USA which has done just that. They reckon it cut recidivism in a really big way.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 08:15

I'll bet a sackfull of farty arseholes there is more to this than meets the eye.. From memory the guy was living in a caravan.. I'll bet he has numerous issues and has come to the attention of the courts many times before. It's not that he is Maori - it's that there is no effective intervention when a series of family members or a cluster of individuals go well off the rails. In previous times he may have been in an insitiution? (who knows)

The wierd thing is... We get all bent out of shape about it and our justice system is NOT working here and when Maori suggest an alternative to try and stop this shit, people get foamy at the mouth about it... Very odd..

Finn

27th February 2007, 08:26

The wierd thing is... We get all bent out of shape about it and our justice system is NOT working here and when Maori suggest an alternative to try and stop this shit, people get foamy at the mouth about it... Very odd..

You mean like the Kahui twins?

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 08:45

You mean like the Kahui twins?

Exactly - all the 'systems' didn't work and failed those kids. The justice system has yet to produce a result - why not try an alternate - whats to loose? (personally I'd just shoot the lot of em but thats no longer allowed)

Finn

27th February 2007, 08:56

Exactly - all the 'systems' didn't work and failed those kids. The justice system has yet to produce a result - why not try an alternate - whats to loose? (personally I'd just shoot the lot of em but thats no longer allowed)

For fuck sake Paul, the system didn't murder those kids, the family did. The justice system can't produce a result when the family hide behind maori bullshit. MORE SOCIAL ENGINEERING IS NOT THE ANSWER! GIVE MAORIDOM AN INCH AND IT WILL TAKE THE COUNTRY. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE???

Paul, it's not a sin to be white.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 09:40

For fuck sake Paul, the system didn't murder those kids, the family did. The justice system can't produce a result when the family hide behind maori bullshit. MORE SOCIAL ENGINEERING IS NOT THE ANSWER! GIVE MAORIDOM AN INCH AND IT WILL TAKE THE COUNTRY. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE???

Paul, it's not a sin to be white.

Are you mad or forgetful? I'm all for lining the lot of em up and shooting them but... How can this stuff happen when we have a family that is well known to the social services and Police?

The family are hiding behind Maori Bullshit? Nah - just bullshit I reckon.

You want Maoridom to be accountable and responsible and yet you won't give them the tools required to do the job? Sounds like you are a bit confused mate. As for them taking the country? I'm not aware thats on the agenda? Perhaps we would be better off if we leased it to the business Roundtable eh?

It's certainly no sin to be white - but it's not a license to play god either...

Finn

27th February 2007, 09:49

You want Maoridom to be accountable and responsible and yet you won't give them the tools required to do the job? Sounds like you are a bit confused mate. As for them taking the country? I'm not aware thats on the agenda? Perhaps we would be better off if we leased it to the business Roundtable eh?

It's certainly no sin to be white - but it's not a license to play god either...

What, aren't the tools that are available to everybody else not good enough? Are you saying that maori people are stupid and need special attention? You really are racist Paul. Go on, give us an example of the tools that you think will stop them from being on top of our statistics... I need a good laugh.

Not a license to play god... what a pathetic statement. We're not in the dark ages Paul, at least most of us aren't. You're talking as if we all just landed from the motherland last week.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 10:32

What, aren't the tools that are available to everybody else not good enough? .

Well obviously not otherwise it would not have happened. In fact the tools don't seem to work for a lot of people regardless of race.

Are you saying that maori people are stupid and need special attention? .

Um.... Hello... Are you using some kind of language translation device that is confusing the meaning of my posts or are you on a wind up trolling voyage? Isn't it you saying they are stupid and need special attention? They are saying they are keen to take responsibility and here is a plan on how it may be achieved - lets talk about it..

You really are racist Paul.

I can be but recent learning experiences and working inside several different cultures over the years have taught me not to jump to conclusions. I hope I'm a better person for it.

Go on, give us an example of the tools that you think will stop them from being on top of our statistics... .

Finn - I'm not Maori so how would I know? I'm willing to listen to what they have to say about it though..

I need a good laugh..

You sure do mate - you will give yourself a heart attack at this rate. Don't worry though 'cos me and all my ethnic mates will have a jolly good feast and toast your cheerful nature late into the following week.

Not a license to play god... what a pathetic statement. .

Really - I kinda liked it - thought it was one of my better ones actually but all art is ultimately subjective so I will accept the criticisim and promise to try harder..

We're not in the dark ages Paul, at least most of us aren't. You're talking as if we all just landed from the motherland last week.

Just because you have been someplace for a long time does not make you wise, enlightened or right. The Dark Ages were called that because there is a distinct lack of written record. (mainly latin I suppose) Information was spread across the known (western) world by the church which was one of the only international organisations functioning and it was tightly controlled and debate was not encouraged. Thus - me encouraging debate would hardly indicate that I believe we are in the dark ages.... Your logic is defective.

We are however living in the brown age Finn. Get with the program bro...

davereid

27th February 2007, 10:58

Violent Crime ? Three strikes and you're out !

Strike I - Reform.
All the do-gooders get to have a go, they can show how effective their reforms are. They can teach basket weaving, watch videos on how crime affects victims, and have meetings with each other and grey haired social workers in sandles. If it works, then we wont need strike II.

Strike II - Punishment.
Long sentences, uncomfy, unpleasant jails, no drugs, no TV, no visitors, just lots of hard labour.

Strike III - Preventative detention. Just stay there until you are too old and frail to be a threat to society. Not trying to help or punish, just stop you breeding and being violent.

The cost ? It currently costs zillions to keep these guys in jail. Let private industry do it. I am sure I could do a very good job for much less !

Finn

27th February 2007, 11:00

Well good luck with all that Paul. Meanwhile a little penguin is hungry in Antarctica. Whatcha gonna do Paul?

I'm sure Helen appreciates your vote though.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 11:24

Well good luck with all that Paul. Meanwhile a little penguin is hungry in Antarctica. Whatcha gonna do Paul?

I'm sure Helen appreciates your vote though.

Ah - a red herring would probably feed the little penguin for a bit....

You run out of puff mate ?? I thought you would have been good for another round at least... Never voted for Helens Govt in me life mate...

Finn

27th February 2007, 11:53

Ah - a red herring would probably feed the little penguin for a bit....

Now you're suggesting we feed the maori's to the penguins. You really are racist Paul. Yes it gets a bit tiring discussing maori's issues with lefty do-gooders, especially when we've had 3 terms of handouts and the problems are much worse. Tell me, you'd know, who was that famous maori chief that told the white man "If you want my people to succeed, you must stop giving them things?"

The_Dover

27th February 2007, 12:21

Tell me, you'd know, who was that famous maori chef that told the white man "If you want my people to succeed, you must stop giving them things?"

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Charles Royal, but I don't recall him saying that.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 12:39

Now you're suggesting we feed the maori's to the penguins. "

No - that would be a brown herring. You colour blind and well as threatened by anything brown? Maybe you got molested by a teddy bear when you were young?

You really are racist Paul. "

See previous replies...

Yes it gets a bit tiring discussing maori's issues with lefty do-gooders, especially when we've had 3 terms of handouts and the problems are much worse.

Sorry if you are out of breath but if you repeat this argument 10 times a week we will soon have you built up. But I agree - it's not working - lets try something new - refer previous posts.

Tell me, you'd know, who was that famous maori chief that told the white man "If you want my people to succeed, you must stop giving them things?"

I think it was the famous maori philantropist Te Rangi Finn and the full qoute is " For fucks sake - If you want me to succeed, you must stop giving them things that i can sell them at a decent profit"

Seriously - no idea but would be keen to know. I remember listening to some sort of roundtable discussion on the BBC one night when I was working on one of my old wrecks. Some Middle eastern journalists and Ms Rice. Similar sentiments were expressed. - almost a direct quote from memory (which aint to good frankly)

Finn

27th February 2007, 14:29

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Charles Royal, but I don't recall him saying that.

No, you're getting confused with Colonel Sanders. He said "If you want your people to integrate with the white man, they've got to eat my chicken."

Patrick

27th February 2007, 14:49

Funnily enough I watched an article on telly about a prison in the USA which has done just that. They reckon it cut recidivism in a really big way.

I missed the show at the time but heard about it here on KB... You are right though, it definitely cut back repeat offending by massive margins. Gotta be good for the economy andpublic safety etc etc....

Wolf

27th February 2007, 15:30

Funnily enough I watched an article on telly about a prison in the USA which has done just that. They reckon it cut recidivism in a really big way.
Yeah but we can't do it here as it would be "demeaning" and therefore "emotional abuse" of the prisoners...

Gods forfend that we should make the poor under-privileged, disadvantaged crims feel worse about themselves than they already do (owing to their deprived childhoods, broken homes, uncaring parents and cruel society)

Finn

27th February 2007, 15:57

doc

27th February 2007, 16:09

Exactly - all the 'systems' didn't work and failed those kids. The justice system has yet to produce a result - why not try an alternate - whats to loose? (personally I'd just shoot the lot of em but thats no longer allowed)
It's not the systems fault. We have a generation of kids raised the Kahui way. They are old news compared with what's comming. You can't fix it. It's life we have to get use to it.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 16:13

Ah crap, now you gone and upset Paul.

Not in real life, just the left wing Paul you invented so you can spout right wing justifications...

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 16:15

It's not the systems fault. We have a generation of kids raised the Kahui way. They are old news compared with what's comming. You can't fix it. It's life we have to get use to it.

I don't think we should accept the status quo or let the lawless barbarians (no barbarians does NOT = Maoridom Finn) dictate the standards or actions of the majority.

I do agree with you though - society is in for a flood of this kind of rubbish.

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 16:16

Yeah but we can't do it here as it would be "demeaning" and therefore "emotional abuse" of the prisoners...

Gods forfend that we should make the poor under-privileged, disadvantaged crims feel worse about themselves than they already do (owing to their deprived childhoods, broken homes, uncaring parents and cruel society)

You don't need to do that. Most prisoners dislike the endless boredom and would welcome some meaningful activity. We could try making them feel proud for doing some good in the community for a change.

The_Dover

27th February 2007, 16:17

I don't think we should accept the status quo or let the lawless barbarians (no barbarians does NOT = Maoridom Finn) dictate the standards or actions of the majority.

I do agree with you though - society is in for a flood of this kind of rubbish.

I agree with you paul.

barbarians = all darkies

Finn

27th February 2007, 16:18

Not in real life, just the left wing Paul you invented so you can spout right wing justifications...

One law for all and being responsible and accountable for your own actions is not right wing Paul.

Finn

27th February 2007, 16:25

You don't need to do that. Most prisoners dislike the endless boredom and would welcome some meaningful activity. We could try making them feel proud for doing some good in the community for a change.

Typical bleeding heart lefty, talking crap like it's fact. Oh those poor, poor prisoners. Hahahahahahaha.

Proud doing some work in the community? Like what, helping Grandma cross the road?

onearmedbandit

27th February 2007, 16:32

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 16:36

Oh goodness.... You cruel right whingers. My feelings are hurt...

Trick would be to stop em becomming gang members and execute the current ones once you stopped the supply.

The_Dover

27th February 2007, 16:37

Reminds me of the gang member with literally hundreds of prior convictions. To make him feel better about himself they let him into the community to do some work. And to make sure this violent (some of his convictions were for violent attcks) criminal didn't escape he was made to sign a promisary note that he wouldn't escape. He escaped.

yeah, but that was societies fault for not giving him the tools to prevent him escaping.

like chains.

and a big guard with a machine gun.

He wasn't a maori by any chance was he?

that reminds me, what's the difference between a set of tyres and a nigger?

nodrog

27th February 2007, 16:42

that reminds me, what's the difference between a set of tyres and a nigger?

hahaha, chains and singing by anychance?

The_Dover

27th February 2007, 16:49

hahaha, chains and singing by anychance?

When I was young I us'd to wait
On Massa and hand him de plate;
Pass down the bottle when he git dry,
And bresh away de blue tail fly.

Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Old Massa gone away.

An' when he ride in de arternoon,
I foiler wid a hickory broom;
De poney being berry shy,
When bitten by de blue tail fly.
One day he rode aroun' de farm,
De flies so numerous dey did swarm;
One chance to bite 'im on the thigh,
De debble take dat blu tail fly.

Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Old Massa gone away.

De poney run, he jump an' pitch,
An' tumble massa in de ditch;
He died, an' de jury wonder'd why
De verdic was de blue tail fly.

Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Jim crack corn — I don't care,
Old Massa gone away.

doc

27th February 2007, 17:09

onearmedbandit

27th February 2007, 17:23

You can actually scrape the burnt part off the toast.

elle-f

27th February 2007, 17:51

HOLY SHIT :laugh:

and as for that wanker - he was a wanker before and will be a wanker til he dies

mstriumph

27th February 2007, 18:03

................
Paul, it's not a sin to be white.

i flinch at the term 'white' .....
.... but they don't have a tick box for 'a rather fetching variant of putty-colour.. not quite the colour of a slightly overdone marie biscuit [and not to be confused in anyway with beige, which is totally gross both as a skin-hue and a lifestyle choice]' ..... *sigh*

i suppose that would have to be a pretty big tick box ....... *sigh*

Patrick

27th February 2007, 18:20

You don't need to do that. Most prisoners dislike the endless boredom and would welcome some meaningful activity. We could try making them feel proud for doing some good in the community for a change.

That would mean "working"... we all know how they feel about that.... wonder how many actually have jobs???

Paul in NZ

27th February 2007, 18:29

Do you support financial resolution solving maoridoms problems ?

Seperate issue - if you feel strongly start a thread and I'll happily debate it...

SPman

27th February 2007, 18:38

That would mean "working"... we all know how they feel about that.... wonder how many actually have jobs???
Well......none, coz they're all in prison!

Guitana

27th February 2007, 18:44

yeah, but that was societies fault for not giving him the tools to prevent him escaping.

like chains.

and a big guard with a machine gun.

He wasn't a maori by any chance was he?

that reminds me, what's the difference between a set of tyres and a nigger?

Enlighten me!!!!!

doc

27th February 2007, 18:53

Seperate issue - if you feel strongly start a thread and I'll happily debate it...NO IT IS NOT A SEPARATE THREAD.... Maori are coming across as bludgers they don't want to change anything except the amount of support they recieve for being here first. For ferk sake ownership of the airwaves changed my attitudes, my best man at my wedding is a Hori and is now a lawyer paid for by himself and I am proud of him and what he represents and won't touch anything Hori . He has no respect for culture bludgers. Neither do I. I am proud of the fact as a Pakeha I was the one who could eat his family under the table at his whanau hangi's which I as the poor white boy had to help dig. Time will tell with maoridom the white boys tolerance is starting to wear a bit thin.

dover has made me concious of my spelling and grammar and now I'm becomming paranoid about it and using the dictionary fuck he is a real cunt.

98tls

27th February 2007, 19:09

It's not the systems fault. We have a generation of kids raised the Kahui way. They are old news compared with what's comming. You can't fix it. It's life we have to get use to it. Absolutly right...................the reason society has to get used to is that the racist......as there known.....element prefer to hide behind a computer screen or any other way of actually avoiding confrontation......fact is black/white/brownpink or any other colour you can think of has an element of utter and complete dipshits that are the ruin of this country.........i laugh at the comments about its the governments fault.....the justice systems fault....its always someone elses fault.......bullshit........its our fault......all of us........we do nothing.........but whinge.No wonder its getting worse........why wouldnt it.......we do nothing to stop it.