Need a VTR rocker cover bolt

[Babelfish]

Anyone out there in posession of a VTR1000F rocker cover bolt? Bloody cockhead here snapped one off the front cylinder of my 98 vtr.

With nowhere open I'll need to wait till monday to try to order one form blue wing but if you've got one handy I'll give you some $$ for it and for the courier fees to send it to me down in Otaki...where I'm stranded for now.

Appreciate any help you can throw me...right, I'll go back to hitting my head against a wall again....:dodge:

[Babelfish]

broken portion of bolt now removed, and forhead healing...anyone just happen to be a saviour with a VTR rocker cover boly lying about?

[Babelfish]

Just to put a close to this one, I ended up getting the bolt tig welded and re-thread. Working a treat until the new one arrives from Japville.

Pretty clued on changing CCT's on VTR's too now so if anyone needs to do theirs I'd be happy to impart what knowledge I have

[bungbung]

Did you use an OE cct or aftermarket? I paid a shop to replace my rear cylinder cct about 20,000k ago, and I imagine I can hear the front making the noise of doom.

[Babelfish]

I used the OE jobbie, $120 from a dealer and was an off the shelf item from Blue Wing. Funnily enough, the Honda dealer hadnt heard of too many CCT's failing in VTR's...

It took me about 2hrs to replace the cct...then another days effort to fix the snapped rocker cover bolt. Its a pretty easy operation though if you're relatively mechanically minded and I always prefer paying my own hourly rate than someone elses.

If the OE unit starts to fail again, I'm going to go with the APE manually adjustables...or try the modification that is described on VTR1000.org. I notice that the head on the new CCT's is more of a rubbery material rather than metal so would probably help?

I pretty much figure from my reading and my recent experience that any rattling around the 2500 to 3500 rpm level that sounds internal once the bike has warmed up pretty much points to a failing CCT. Mine was doing exactly that and post replacement is its perky self again.

Let me know if you want the blow by blow details of front CCT changing and I'll write it up for you.

[vifferman]

I used the OE jobbie, $120 from a dealer and was an off the shelf item from Blue Wing. Funnily enough, the Honda dealer hadnt heard of too many CCT's failing in VTR's...
F-wit.
But mind you, he would say that.
Apparently the front ones fail the most frequently - something to do with the CCT spring not getting any oil as the CCT slopes the wrong way. It could also be summat to do with which chain fetch it's on - the one to the zorst valves or the one to the intake valves, although why that - or the commonly supposed reason of too much use of engine-braking to slow down - would make any difference, I dunno.


It took me about 2hrs to replace the cct...then another days effort to fix the snapped rocker cover bolt. Its a pretty easy operation though if you're relatively mechanically minded and I always prefer paying my own hourly rate than someone elses.

If the OE unit starts to fail again, I'm going to go with the APE manually adjustables...or try the modification that is described on VTR1000.org. I notice that the head on the new CCT's is more of a rubbery material rather than metal so would probably help?

When I had my VTR, even though it had brand new camchains, CCTs and two valves, I replaced the CCTs with APE ones. Piece of piss to fit - took a lot less than 2 hours, as all I had to remove were the flywheel cover, one sparkplug (to determine which cylinder was on compression) and the CCTs themselves. The hardest bit was getting the tension right, because the instructions were a bit vague, as were those from the forums.

In the end I went with finger-tight, as the philosophy behind this sounded sensible (i.e., it's approximately the same tension as the springs in the OEM one would apply).

[Babelfish]

F-wit.
But mind you, he would say that.

Yep, that was my take on it aswell. Decent chap though and loads of help so I wont hold it against him.



Apparently the front ones fail the most frequently - something to do with the CCT spring not getting any oil as the CCT slopes the wrong way. It could also be summat to do with which chain fetch it's on - the one to the zorst valves or the one to the intake valves, although why that - or the commonly supposed reason of too much use of engine-braking to slow down - would make any difference, I dunno.


Yeah, I'd heard the fronts were dodgy for those reasons...farked if I'm not going to engine brake a bloody vitter with two bros cans though...I'll take me hard ons however I can get em thanks.



When I had my VTR, even though it had brand new camchains, CCTs and two valves, I replaced the CCTs with APE ones. Piece of piss to fit - took a lot less than 2 hours, as all I had to remove were the flywheel cover, one sparkplug (to determine which cylinder was on compression) and the CCTs themselves. The hardest bit was getting the tension right, because the instructions were a bit vague, as were those from the forums.

In the end I went with finger-tight, as the philosophy behind this sounded sensible (i.e., it's approximately the same tension as the springs in the OEM one would apply).
[/QUOTE]

Yep, the 2hrs includes my re-reading all the shite I had to get right for the TDC bizzo. Most material talks about ripping off either the rear of front rocker cover, but the best one I found followed my logic of sticking a compression guage in the cyclinder to get the compression stroke. Then someone posted removing the bottom left rocker cover bolt so that the exhaust valve can be seen. I ended up sticking the plug in loosely so I could get a hiss on TDC, and took the bolt out anyway to double check...there was no way I wanted the chain slipping so I was prancing like a little school girl making sure I was right.

I reckon the next time I do it it'll be a half hour job, which is why I'd recommend it to any vitter owner whos got even half a spanner monkey mind.

As for the apes, I'd theorised the same re: finger tight. Other things I'd seen on line for them was to adjust as per clatter noise, but that still means you have to start the tension somewhere.

If I start pushing the bike more, then I may go that way. What mechanism does the Viffer use in comparison to the Vitter? Does it suffer similar issues?

[vifferman]

Most material talks about ripping off either the rear of front rocker cover, but the best one I found followed my logic of sticking a compression guage in the cyclinder to get the compression stroke. Then someone posted removing the bottom left rocker cover bolt so that the exhaust valve can be seen. I ended up sticking the plug in loosely so I could get a hiss on TDC, and took the bolt out anyway to double check.
What I did was take one plug out, and put a length of hose in the sparkplug hole. It fit tight enough that with my finger over the end I could tell it was on compression.


As for the apes, I'd theorised the same re: finger tight. Other things I'd seen on line for them was to adjust as per clatter noise, but that still means you have to start the tension somewhere.
My engine was so noisy anyway that doing it by adjusting it till it was quiet then backing it off was almost impossible.


What mechanism does the Viffer use in comparison to the Vitter? Does it suffer similar issues?
Mine has gear-driven cams with scissor-gears. They're a bit noisy because in 1998 they shifted the gear drive from the centre of the camsshafts to the right-hand end. That was a shame, because prior to that you could flip one of the cams around (they were symmetrical) and create a "twin-twingle", as the ignition sparks on the compression and zorst strokes.

In 2002, they brought out the VTec, and dropped the gear-driven cams in favour of camchains. I'm almost 100% sure that the reason they did this was to make the bike quieter to meet Euro standards. Having owned 4 Hondas with noisy camchains, I decided after back-to-back test-riding a VTec and the bike I bought, that the VTec was not for me.
Apparently, there have been the usual rash of noisy camchains with the newer VFRs, and the occasional CCT failure, especially (surprise, surprise!) the front ones.

[Babelfish]

What I did was take one plug out, and put a length of hose in the sparkplug hole. It fit tight enough that with my finger over the end I could tell it was on compression.


Clever farker eh?




My engine was so noisy anyway that doing it by adjusting it till it was quiet then backing it off was almost impossible.


Too noisy to notice the cam chain slap? Crikey! That said, it doesnt sound like you needed to. Im assuming finger tight did the job? How long did you keep the vitter after that? How often did the apes need adjusting?



...you could flip one of the cams around (they were symmetrical) and create a "twin-twingle", as the ignition sparks on the compression and zorst strokes.


Why?

[vifferman]

Clever farker eh?
Nah, just sorta desperate.

Or summat.


Too noisy to notice the cam chain slap? Crikey! That said, it doesnt sound like you needed to. Im assuming finger tight did the job? How long did you keep the vitter after that? How often did the apes need adjusting?
There was quite a bit of mechanical noise of all sorts, probably because the bike had ~72,000 km on it. I couldn't really pick the point at which it "got quiet" as it never really did. So I figured that even if the chains were a little loose, with no tensioner spring to break, there was no way the camchains could jump teeth on the cam sprockets, so it didn't matter. I adjusted them a couple of times (tighter, looser, tighter) not because I needed to, but just due to paranoia. The chains shouldn't stretch much (and like I said, mine were newish) so it's only wear of the camchain guide sliders that make for slack.

I had the bike about 18 months, I think, and changed the CCTs at about 6-8 months into ownership. I saw it for sale again on TardMe recently, with 77k on it, and the same price that was on it last time it was for sale, over two years ago.


Why?
Why what?
Why would someone turn a VFR into a "twin twingle"? Just out of curiosity, and because they could.
It's basically what Honda did with the racing VFRs (the RC45) to give it a "big bang" to approximate the Ducati powerstroke. It still makes the same sort of power, just vibrates a bit more at certain revs, and sounds a bit different. I'd imagine the new RC212Vs in MotoGP and the Ducati Desmosedici is the same.

[Babelfish]

Why what?
Why would someone turn a VFR into a "twin twingle"? Just out of curiosity, and because they could.
It's basically what Honda did with the racing VFRs (the RC45) to give it a "big bang" to approximate the Ducati powerstroke. It still makes the same sort of power, just vibrates a bit more at certain revs, and sounds a bit different. I'd imagine the new RC212Vs in MotoGP and the Ducati Desmosedici is the same.

Yeah, sorry that was the "Why" I meant. Makes sense, I read somewhere that its the reduced pulse to the back wheel that helps with conering grip. I seem to recall a story in the 2 stroke GP bikes that they accidentally stuck the plug leads on the wrong plugs and did a faster lap due to this...a vague recollection form the depths mind you so I could be fibbing.

The fortunate end to all of this is that I eventually want to upgrade to an RC51 to eradicate the whole cct issue once and for all...now I just need someone to buy my house to alleviate the fundage.

[vifferman]

The fortunate end to all of this is that I eventually want to upgrade to an RC51 to eradicate the whole cct issue once and for all.
Yeah, that'd be nice. :yes:

I've had seven (7) Hondas now (eight if you count the one that was 'mine' when I worked for MAF), and the only ones that didn't have/end up with noisy camchains were two VFRs and a two-smoke.
Honda should stick to gear-driven cams.

[Babelfish]

Yeah, that'd be nice. :yes:

I've had seven (7) Hondas now (eight if you count the one that was 'mine' when I worked for MAF), and the only ones that didn't have/end up with noisy camchains were two VFRs and a two-smoke.
Honda should stick to gear-driven cams.

Yeah, its the catch phrase of most honda owners I've read about, wondering why Honda cant sort out their CCT's...mine is not to reason why, but at least its an easy swap out, and considering the rest is fairly bullet proof I'm not going to diss honda too much for it.

This is my first honda and I love the thing...funny I always put them into the "too straight" bucket and didnt really like them while at the same time loving the NSR, the Fireblade and the RC45 during their haydays. Now I'm a changed man and I'm finding the more understated but refined engineering is reflected in most of the owners (so there's hope for me yet) :rockon: