17inch rear wheel for an FZR600

[kerryg]

Looking for a replacement for the 18" x 3.5" rear wheel on my FZR600. I want to go 17" and a bit wider. Anyone got a wheel in good nick, with cush drive and carrier. Maybe off a FZR400 later model, or perhaps FZR750? Or whatever?

[White trash]

Ohhhh. I see.

Gonna do a bit of pre '89 are we?

[riffer]

Looking for a replacement for the 18" x 3.5" rear wheel on my FZR600. I want to go 17" and a bit wider. Anyone got a wheel in good nick, with cush drive and carrier. Maybe off a FZR400 later model, or perhaps FZR750? Or whatever?
Careful what you try and put on the fzr600 Kerry, particularly with your model.

The rear brake caliper, and in particular the brake stay arm, run very close to the wheel, and theres a bit of evidence on the net that any tyre wider than 150 will foul these parts.

You might be best to try and get an FZR750 or FZR1000 87-88 back wheel, which is an 18 x 4 inch wheel. This should just fit in and you will probably find that you can run 150/60-18 or (maybe) 160/60-18. I think you can still get BT-010's in this size. This would be pretty much a fast swap.

However, Chris Eklund writes on Larry's FZR Page (http://www.tourtimemedia.com/fzr/) about how to put 17x5 inch wheels on an FZR400 (which is VERY similar) and FZR600:

"I currently run Honda CBR600F2 (17x4.50) and F3 (17x5.00) rear wheels on my race bike. My street project FZR600 street fighter will be using a GSXR (17x4.50) rear wheel.

To use the F2/F3 wheels, this is what I had done. Any competent machinist could do this, or they may have a better idea. This is how my guy did it:

First thing is I took Lester a stock wheel complete with spacers, axle, cush drive, brake arm, etc., a spare 400 box-section swing arm and a complete F2 rear wheel. This way he could measure everything from the stock wheel.

He removed the sprocket studs from the cush drive. (Note: Honda uses locking agent that is _tough_! Be sure to heat the studs when you pull them.) The outer bearing surface was machined down. This eliminated the rubber bearing seal, so a single sided waterproof sealed bearing of the Honda OEM size was used. The sprocket surface was also machined to move the sprocket inward. (Note: If you have '90 Deltabox swing arm, the studs need to be shortened and the nuts ground down to clear the swing arm. I'm not sure if this step is necessary on a '88-89 box section arm since they have more clearance. I ground about 2-3mm off the nuts, which was basically the locking portion of it, so I now have mine safety wired. Makes rear sprocket changes time consuming, but it won't come off and I usually know what gearing I'm going to run at what track beforehand. If you can get some low profile lock nuts, that would work well. Ideally, I'd have a spare cush drive modified.

New wheel spacers were machined from steel and have a sleeve for adapting the small FZR axle to the larger F2 bearing. This way the spacers are captive and won't fall out. (Note: Another option is to use the F2/F3 axle. The stock F2 axle will fit in the '90 swing arm. All you'd have to do is drill out the holes in the v-blocks. The F2/F3 axle is about 2mm larger and hollow.

For the brake, Honda uses a floating caliper mounting system as opposed to the Yamaha's fixed caliper. I use a Hurricane 2-piston caliper, but plan to use a F2 single piston one soon. A CR125/250/500 rear caliper might be another option. I've seen a CR125 caliper used on an F2 rim on Simon Forder's EX500.

The large hub on the F2/F3 wheels won't allow an opposed piston caliper go all the way over the rotor. The GSXR wheel can be used with the FZR600 hanger and stock 400/600 caliper or you could get the GSXR rotor turned down the same diameter as the stock 400 rotor. I think the F2/F3 wheels are lighter than the GSXR, but I can't guarantee that.

The GSXR wheel requires the same type of work, but is simpler for a few reasons. The cush drive uses bolts to secure the sprocket so when you remove the sprocket, the bolts fall out, unlike the studs on the Honda. These bolts are of a smaller diameter than the Honda studs and already uses low profile locking nuts. And as I mentioned above, the brake situation is easier to deal with. Plus it's a three-spoke wheel and matches the stock front wheel. GSXR rims may be getting hard to find since they were only used on '88-89 GSXR750's and '89 GSXR1100's.

Here are GSXR dimensions and directions from Nolan Ballew:



"Remove .345 from sprocket carrier where sprocket sits.
Remove .305 from sprocket carrier where stock bearing seal sits.
Replace bearing with sealed bearing type but same size.
On sprocket side use stock spacer plus 25mm O.D. 17mm I.D. by 1.73 inch spacer that slips into carrier.
Use stock brake arm and .510 spacer with 17mm I.D./ O.D. of this spacer is non critical. this spacer goes between brake arm and wheel bearing like stock one.
The stock Suzuki disc can be cut down to the same O.D. and width as 400. The O.D. with have cut thru holes or you can make a disc. The stock disc cannot be adapted.
Stock caliper needs bottom left surface filed down about .025 to provide clearance for larger hub of GSX-R-r wheel.
A 600fzr caliper bracket can be used with the stock Suzuki disc but then you cannot easily switch from a stock wheel to the Suzuki wheel if you have 18 inch rains on stock wheels (Bridgestone).
I don't have a number for the 600 caliper bracket but once the other side is done the measurement should not be too difficult."

TZ250 rims have been used and apparently only require new spacers being made (according to Motorcyclist article 9/90.) TZ rims wider than 5.00 may require moving the chain out to clear the tire.

As recommended by Sam Flemming of the Army of Darkness, Wheels without cush drives should be avoided (i.e. older Performance Machine wheels.) The shock of each power pulse will take it's toll on the 400's not too terribly tough transmission and clutch.


Hope this helps.


Celticno6

[kerryg]

Ohhhh. I see.

Gonna do a bit of pre '89 are we?


Hi WT well I suppose that's in the back of my mind somewhere but at this stage just want to set it up as a track day bike. I've put Race Tech springs up front and just sourced a Koni for the rear, so with some good rubber it could be a bit of fun but I don't know that I'm good enough to race. We'll see............

[kerryg]

Careful what you try and put on the fzr600 Kerry, particularly with your model.

The rear brake caliper, and in particular the brake stay arm, run very close to the wheel, and theres a bit of evidence on the net that any tyre wider than 150 will foul these parts.

You might be best to try and get an FZR750 or FZR1000 87-88 back wheel, which is an 18 x 4 inch wheel. This should just fit in and you will probably find that you can run 150/60-18 or (maybe) 160/60-18. I think you can still get BT-010's in this size. This would be pretty much a fast swap.

However, Chris Eklund writes on Larry's FZR Page (http://www.tourtimemedia.com/fzr/) about how to put 17x5 inch wheels on an FZR400 (which is VERY similar) and FZR600:

"I currently run Honda CBR600F2 (17x4.50) and F3 (17x5.00) rear wheels on my race bike. My street project FZR600 street fighter will be using a GSXR (17x4.50) rear wheel.

To use the F2/F3 wheels, this is what I had done. Any competent machinist could do this, or they may have a better idea. This is how my guy did it:

First thing is I took Lester a stock wheel complete with spacers, axle, cush drive, brake arm, etc., a spare 400 box-section swing arm and a complete F2 rear wheel. This way he could measure everything from the stock wheel.

He removed the sprocket studs from the cush drive. (Note: Honda uses locking agent that is _tough_! Be sure to heat the studs when you pull them.) The outer bearing surface was machined down. This eliminated the rubber bearing seal, so a single sided waterproof sealed bearing of the Honda OEM size was used. The sprocket surface was also machined to move the sprocket inward. (Note: If you have '90 Deltabox swing arm, the studs need to be shortened and the nuts ground down to clear the swing arm. I'm not sure if this step is necessary on a '88-89 box section arm since they have more clearance. I ground about 2-3mm off the nuts, which was basically the locking portion of it, so I now have mine safety wired. Makes rear sprocket changes time consuming, but it won't come off and I usually know what gearing I'm going to run at what track beforehand. If you can get some low profile lock nuts, that would work well. Ideally, I'd have a spare cush drive modified.

New wheel spacers were machined from steel and have a sleeve for adapting the small FZR axle to the larger F2 bearing. This way the spacers are captive and won't fall out. (Note: Another option is to use the F2/F3 axle. The stock F2 axle will fit in the '90 swing arm. All you'd have to do is drill out the holes in the v-blocks. The F2/F3 axle is about 2mm larger and hollow.

For the brake, Honda uses a floating caliper mounting system as opposed to the Yamaha's fixed caliper. I use a Hurricane 2-piston caliper, but plan to use a F2 single piston one soon. A CR125/250/500 rear caliper might be another option. I've seen a CR125 caliper used on an F2 rim on Simon Forder's EX500.

The large hub on the F2/F3 wheels won't allow an opposed piston caliper go all the way over the rotor. The GSXR wheel can be used with the FZR600 hanger and stock 400/600 caliper or you could get the GSXR rotor turned down the same diameter as the stock 400 rotor. I think the F2/F3 wheels are lighter than the GSXR, but I can't guarantee that.

The GSXR wheel requires the same type of work, but is simpler for a few reasons. The cush drive uses bolts to secure the sprocket so when you remove the sprocket, the bolts fall out, unlike the studs on the Honda. These bolts are of a smaller diameter than the Honda studs and already uses low profile locking nuts. And as I mentioned above, the brake situation is easier to deal with. Plus it's a three-spoke wheel and matches the stock front wheel. GSXR rims may be getting hard to find since they were only used on '88-89 GSXR750's and '89 GSXR1100's.

Here are GSXR dimensions and directions from Nolan Ballew:



"Remove .345 from sprocket carrier where sprocket sits.
Remove .305 from sprocket carrier where stock bearing seal sits.
Replace bearing with sealed bearing type but same size.
On sprocket side use stock spacer plus 25mm O.D. 17mm I.D. by 1.73 inch spacer that slips into carrier.
Use stock brake arm and .510 spacer with 17mm I.D./ O.D. of this spacer is non critical. this spacer goes between brake arm and wheel bearing like stock one.
The stock Suzuki disc can be cut down to the same O.D. and width as 400. The O.D. with have cut thru holes or you can make a disc. The stock disc cannot be adapted.
Stock caliper needs bottom left surface filed down about .025 to provide clearance for larger hub of GSX-R-r wheel.
A 600fzr caliper bracket can be used with the stock Suzuki disc but then you cannot easily switch from a stock wheel to the Suzuki wheel if you have 18 inch rains on stock wheels (Bridgestone).
I don't have a number for the 600 caliper bracket but once the other side is done the measurement should not be too difficult."

TZ250 rims have been used and apparently only require new spacers being made (according to Motorcyclist article 9/90.) TZ rims wider than 5.00 may require moving the chain out to clear the tire.

As recommended by Sam Flemming of the Army of Darkness, Wheels without cush drives should be avoided (i.e. older Performance Machine wheels.) The shock of each power pulse will take it's toll on the 400's not too terribly tough transmission and clutch.


Hope this helps.


Celticno6


Thanks for all the good info Celtic. Yeah, I'm familar with that website (also FZR archives is a good one and the EXUP brotherhood). Had a FZR1000F until recently so spent a bit of time hunting down good info sources.

I've just acquired a braced alloy swing arm off a slightly later FZR400 (91 or 92 I believe) which is a straight bolt on swap. It's on its way up from down country (Taranaki? Manawatu? Wairarapa? :D ....one of those places somewhere south of the Bombays) and when I get it I'll have a better idea of what will work. I thought of fitting a FZR1000 18" x 4" (I know where there is one) but it only gains me 1/2" over the stock wheel, and still leaves me with limited rubber choices. I may still go that route though (its the easiest) but I'm tempted by say a 17" x 4.5" rim if it will fit without too much drama.

Happen to know what stock rim width the FZR400s ran?

[riffer]

Happen to know what stock rim width the FZR400s ran?
Same as the 600s from what I know. Started as a 3.5", then moved up as the 600s did to 4".