Bloody cyclists [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Wolf

27th February 2007, 08:46

We were out in the countryside, came around the corner and there was a large gaggle (I think that's the correct collective term. That or "handbag"...) ranging between 2- and 6-abreast crawling along the road. Had to brake, slow to a crawl and they gave us a filthy look when we tried to pass.

I don't mind people on push bikes when they obey the law but blocking an entire lane of a winding country road (or any other road, for that matter) is not on. If I'd been travelling any faster I probably would have hit one or more of the stupid bastards.

But hey, why not disregard the law - after all, the bike is exempt from every road-worthiness standard and regulation that other vehicles are bound by, you don't need a licence so they can't take one off you... might as well ride like a fuck-wit while you're at it.

I think some of these buggers on bikes have them because they lack the ability to pass a licence test for a motor vehicle.

Was watching 3 stupid college boys cycling the wrong way down the one-way section of Ward St this morning - they were deliberately weaving in front of a large SUV and one of them had his helmet hanging from the handlebars.

And of course, if the SUV had clobbered any of them the driver would have been slammed for failing to stop on time.

I've had push bikes suddenly swerve across my path without the rider looking first - excellent argument for mandatory rear view mirrors on push bikes. Proper signalling lights and brake lights would also be a good idea.

And some sort of licence to ride them on the road - at least passing the road code exam to demonstrate that they have at least a scraping knowledge of the road rules because a lot of them either don't have a clue or don't give a shit.

u4ea

27th February 2007, 08:51

Come on....motorcyclists make up their own rules too!...

I used to be a roadie, theres no way I was as unlawful as I might be on my motorbike now :innocent:

Whatever your discipline you're gonna think you're the king of the road regardless.

that is true to a piont..while on our way to mansfeils last Sunday (chanceyy,ajturbo and I)we parked up waited for 86gxs to arrive out the back of Palmy.. along the road comes a bunch of these turkeys riding 4 abreast on a busy country road coming up to a 4 point intersection with stop signs.......you tell me.....if we were riding staggered(as per road code)and a tanker was coming the other who has right of way ?????so being me:innocent: I yelled out "ride single file you f#@&%kers"...they are ignorant.If they want to ride like that why aren"t they wearing dayglows or some thing to promote safe road usage?? when congesting our roads?
I am making a point of riding to the left (even tho the cambers more common there and scary)so I am safer on our roads.....................my 2c

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 09:01

I am making a point of riding to the left (even tho the cambers more common there and scary)so I am safer on our roads....................

I would be failing (you) if I said stay to the left. PLEASE DON'T except if in a staggered group. You are far more visible in the right wheel track and suffer less chance of being the unwilling recipient of some dork in a cage lane splitting you. In the right wheeltrack you also have more space to manouevre if needed. In saying all that tho, it is a good idea to vary your road position from time to time, as this signals to cagers that the whole width of the lane is yours.

skelstar

27th February 2007, 09:01

Sure (u4), all Im saying is that we shouldn't throw stones in glass houses thats all. There would be very few of us that are beyond reproach.

T.I.E

27th February 2007, 09:03

got alot of them out on the road, out past karaka. espically when driving the horse truck for some reason, always made it fun when they would ride 2 - 3 wide. taking up most of the lane.
me being me, when the truck was empty, id lock up the rear wheels make a huge noise and scare the crap out of them. dam ya should see them scatter when a large hino truck bearing down on them. last minute release brakes and pull to one side.
i miss those days.
dam im a bastard :innocent:

Alice

27th February 2007, 09:17

Being until recently heavily into cycling as a sport, I probably should not comment to much as I will have been guilty of similiar stuff, did that tour, its a good event, a time trial, a criterian around the industrial area, which is real fun, a hill climb up TE Mata Peak and a road race.
Its easy to sit on a pedastool and criticise, maybe somtimes a bit more tolerance could go a long way, thats not so say I condone riding 6 abreast, but in a tour there is usually a car tailing the race to warn motorists whats ahead and a lead vechile.
I can give you the phone no"s of some of the people in that photo if you want to take it up with them personally, or you can complain to the local cycling club that organises the event.
Cyclists are just doing what they enjoy doing, even if you can't relate to it.
I curse then to at times.
There are quite a few motorists that take delight at coming as close as they possibly can or cutting yu off, the ultimate was a friend of mine some years back had a gun pulled on him out training. Thats a long story, but a goody.

N4CR

27th February 2007, 09:18

i would be failing (you) if i said stay to the left. please don't except if in a staggered group. you are far more visible in the right wheel track and suffer less chance of being the unwilling recipient of some dork in a cage lane splitting you.

so when i'm going close to 100k around a 25k corner and there is some dork on a pushie right on the outside wheel track (eg long sweeping left they are on the right hand) what the **** am i supposed to do? they always pull to the left when they hear me coming no problems about that, it's easier to re-adjust a line for a cyclist if they are on the inside rather than outside, and also much safer for both parties.

u4ea

27th February 2007, 09:23

I would be failing (you) if I said stay to the left. PLEASE DON'T except if in a staggered group. You are far more visible in the right wheel track and suffer less chance of being the unwilling recipient of some dork in a cage lane splitting you. In the right wheeltrack you also have more space to manouevre if needed. In saying all that tho, it is a good idea to vary your road position from time to time, as this signals to cagers that the whole width of the lane is yours.

Thanx for the words of wisdom matey!!!Guess it is up to the type of road and traffic flow too...

Skelstar I hear you too matey!! But I have sat a liscence and paid road user taxes to be on the road!I do take advantage of the fact the bike is narrower than cars and such and power on,weave when needed and I have a light on at all times but I will never ignorantly congest a road...hell Ive seen a cyclist on the wrong side of the road up the akateras...luckily I was in a cage...god knows if I wouldve been able to shift my line in time on the bike.........

Finn

27th February 2007, 09:26

Has anyone noticed that cyclists get REALLY pissed off very easily? I just drive or ride quite close and blast the horn right next to them. It's hysterical watching them go ape in the mirrors.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 09:31

so when i'm going close to 100k around a 25k corner and there is some dork on a pushie right on the outside wheel track (eg long sweeping left they are on the right hand) what the **** am i supposed to do? they always pull to the left when they hear me coming no problems about that, it's easier to re-adjust a line for a cyclist if they are on the inside rather than outside, and also much safer for both parties.

In that case, you are the greater idiot...where's your reserve safety margin?
I spoke in general terms, and of course there will always be times when it is better to be in the 'other' wheel track. Not to mention the 'smoothing out the corners' style of riding.

EDIT: how could a 'long sweeping left' be classed as a 25kph corner?

skelstar

27th February 2007, 09:40

But I have sat a liscence and paid road user taxes to be on the road!I do take advantage of the fact the bike is narrower than cars and such and power on,weave when needed and I have a light on at all times but I will never ignorantly congest a road...hell Ive seen a cyclist on the wrong side of the road up the akateras...luckily I was in a cage...god knows if I would've been able to shift my line in time on the bike.........
For the sake of healthy discussion (and its fun) the RUCs and licenses don't entitle you/us to be fast, weaving, and take advantage of other motorcycle behaviors anymore than cyclists are given the right to congest roads.

Don't get me wrong, I find the behavior of some cyclists to be a bit arrogant/ignorant, but I honestly see little difference in our behavior sometimes (riding up some car's date so that they'll pullover for us?).

marty

27th February 2007, 09:41

Mods - by all means merge this with an old thread that I remember (but can't find)...
This photo in last night's paper illustrates perfectly one of the biggest bitches we have with these pricks (prickesses, in this case). Not a single mention in the article of the 2 abreast rule. Note the centre line. And as far as keeping as far to the left as practicable....
Pity they weren't being tested on their ability to obey the road rules - eh,failed!

it's almost as bad as this motorcyclist on the wrong side of the road exceeding the speed limit!

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 09:49

it's almost as bad as this motorcyclist on the wrong side of the road exceeding the speed limit!

AND his bike isn't even up to WOF standard!
(funny how being on a closed road makes it OK)

unhingedlizard

27th February 2007, 09:53

Wonder how people would react if we were to ride motorsickels at 30kph three abreats.........

marty

27th February 2007, 09:53

irony was obviously wasted on you ya muppet - the picture YOU posted is on a closed road too.....

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 09:58

irony was obviously wasted on you ya muppet - the picture YOU posted is on a closed road too.....

:nono: No it wasn't. I see your muppet and raise you 2:Punk:

marty

27th February 2007, 10:02

so i don't get your post. it's on a closed road, road rules don't apply. perhaps it's a troll?

i'll see your 2 and add a smurf to the pot.

N4CR

27th February 2007, 10:09

edit: how could a 'long sweeping left' be classed as a 25kph corner?

there is a big margin when they are in the left wheel track, not in the right. if i had a margin for right wheel track i'd be doing 30k or so.

long 25k corners, you know the ones,the ones that seem to go forefer.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 10:12

so i don't get your post. it's on a closed road, road rules don't apply. perhaps it's a troll?

i'll see your 2 and add a smurf to the pot.

Obviously, grammar played a part in you not understanding my rebuttal.
Is this better? "No, it wasn't (on a closed road)."
You gonna fold now, or what?:innocent:

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 10:14

there is a big margin when they are in the left wheel track, not in the right. if i had a margin for right wheel track i'd be doing 30k or so.

long 25k corners, you know the ones,the ones that seem to go forefer.

Ah - you mean a blind hairpin? So why would you take one at 100kph? And what's it got to do with bitching at peddlies?

N4CR

27th February 2007, 10:18

ah - you mean a blind hairpin? so why would you take one at 100kph? and what's it got to do with *****ing at peddlies?

not all are hairpins often they under estimate 25ks when they would usually be 40 or so if you compare it to others. i'm just supplying an extreme example really. if you were on one of those in the right wheel tracks with almost any vehicle being able to take them at least 40-50kmh you'd be either toast or very close.....

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 10:38

not all are hairpins often they under estimate 25ks when they would usually be 40 or so if you compare it to others. i'm just supplying an extreme example really. if you were on one of those in the right wheel tracks with almost any vehicle being able to take them at least 40-50kmh you'd be either toast or very close.....

In light of your description above, I'd agree. However I did state that I spoke in 'general terms'... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=954089&postcount=17
Do you not move to the outside of a corner when preparing to enter it?

N4CR

27th February 2007, 10:41

in light of your description above, i'd agree. however i did state that i spoke in 'general terms'... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=954089&postcount=17
do you not move to the outside of a corner when preparing to enter it?

fair enough. yes and i apex early and hold it for alot of the corner if it's blind so i can run wide towards edge of lane on exit - more accel and also margin to adjust for **** on inside and cyclists.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 10:46

fair enough. yes and i apex early ....

Now that we are back on the same page, can we get back to bagging cyclists who think the whole road belongs to them?

marty

27th February 2007, 10:47

Obviously, grammar played a part in you not understanding my rebuttal.
Is this better? "No, it wasn't (on a closed road)."
You gonna fold now, or what?:innocent:

i would suggest that for the period of time that the race passed through that area, the road was essentially closed, and the pre-race briefing would have indicated as such.

u4ea

27th February 2007, 10:53

For the sake of healthy discussion (and its fun) the RUCs and licenses don't entitle you/us to be fast, weaving, and take advantage of other motorcycle behaviors anymore than cyclists are given the right to congest roads.

Don't get me wrong, I find the behavior of some cyclists to be a bit arrogant/ignorant, but I honestly see little difference in our behavior sometimes (riding up some car's date so that they'll pullover for us?).

Riding up a cars date is NOT my thing!!!!!!not healthy matey....no room for error there aye.........:dodge:

N4CR

27th February 2007, 10:56

now that we are back on the same page, can we get back to bagging cyclists who think the whole road belongs to them?

fvckin ay bunch of *****s when they ride like 50 a****** and take up the entire racing line, just wish finn was there or motu to take em out.

i'll post up the video of a guy wheelieng past an entire group and they all start *****ing 'that guys an *******, he's an *******' etc to the cameraman on the side of the road. rofl.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 10:56

i would suggest that for the period of time that the race passed through that area, the road was essentially closed, and the pre-race briefing would have indicated as such.

You mean like a 'rolling closure' sort of thing? For each bunch? Pace cars back and front? With marshalls stopping cross traffic at every intersection?
Can't say I've ever seen that happen here in the Bay.
The photo as published is a fair representation of what really happens...

skelstar

27th February 2007, 11:28

Riding up a cars date is NOT my thing!!!!!!not healthy matey....no room for error there aye.........:dodge:
Sure, I mean in a healthy way (back right hand corner, just outside the righthand wheel track) :niceone:

Swoop

27th February 2007, 11:30

Perhaps having an "open season" on lycra-clad treddlie riders occasionally might cull their numbers back somewhat?
Perhaps January to November?
Decoys and beaters are permissable, of course...

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 11:39

Perhaps having an "open season" on lycra-clad treddlie riders occasionally might cull their numbers back somewhat?
Perhaps January to November?
Decoys and beaters are permissable, of course...

Bwahahaha!
That's a bit harsh. Surely 1 August to 31 May would be fairer? That at least gives them a whole 2 months to enjoy their bare limbs and lycra....

Wolf

27th February 2007, 11:44

And likewise that handbag of push-bikers I encountered had no pace car(s) anywhere, it was just some fecking stupid bunch of unlicensible (as evidenced by their obvious lack of knowledge of the Road Code) dorks in spandex blocking most of a country road.

I've encountered organised races with the pace cars and I have no problem with that, it's encountering all of the local "We hate cars so we'll travel in groups of thirty" brigade without warning that fucks me off.

I will state that I have encountered people touring in pairs riding two-abreast (as is permitted under the code so long as the road is clear) who have heard the approach of my bike or car and fallen into single file - no problem with them, just these supposed cycling "clubs" who think they are somehow beyond the road code, riding 6-abreast and cutting right-hand corners.

Time to have all push bikes on the road comply with a minimum safety standard (yes, I'm talking "Warrant of Fitness" checks, here) - lights, indicators, rear view mirrors, adequate brakes for the speed they travel (a well-maintained bike should aready have decent brakes) etc and anyone who rides a push bike or other HPV ("Human Powered Vehicle", for the uninitiated) on the road should have passed a road licence test in which they demonstrate a knowledge of general and HPV-specific road rules. I'm not expecting graduated licenses and handling tests, just some indication that the dork in the spandex at least knows what "single file" means and how it applies to group riding on "open" roads.

As the minimum age for riding on the road is apparently eight years old and most eight-year-olds are at least semi-literate, this should not be a problem.

I had one dork on a pushie glance behind him, let the car in front of me past and then, without signalling, swerve right across the path of my motorcycle while I was travelling at 50km/h. I braked and hit the horn simultaneously (seems to be a side-effect of having to hastily grab a fistful of clutch and down-shift - somehow my thumb hits the horn as my fingers clench...) and yelled at him to watch where he's going. The moron yelled back "I saw the car" so I hollered back (now going slow enough to exchange lengthy pleasantries with a bloody pedestrian) "Ya didn't see me, ya fucking idiot."

That bloke was definitely in need of rear-view mirrors, indicators and some basic education in how to use them.

Oh, but wait, the addition of rear view mirrors and indicator lamps would spoil the aerodynamics of the bike and slow him down - not to mention the detrimental effects of the weight of such "needless" safety equipment. As if a push bike and rider are "streamlined" anyway - no amount of shaving the legs, spandex "mumble pants" and tapered futuristic helmets can alter the fact that a person on a pushie has all the streamlining of a cinder-block fence.

If I removed the lights, indicators, and rear view mirrors of my bike or car, I would not be allowed to take it onto the road (yeah, I know there are exemptions for bikes and cars of a certain age but they're pretty rare these days and they're driven/ridden by people who have actually passed a licence test).

If I tried riding or driving any motor vehicle without a licence (let alone a vehicle that does not comply with warrant of fitness standards) I would be for the high-jump if caught.

Either push bikes and their riders should comply with appropriate standards and laws or they should not be allowed on the roads/streets - pretty simple, really.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 11:49

Either push bikes and their riders should comply with appropriate standards and laws or they should not be allowed on the roads/streets - pretty simple, really.

Yep. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

skelstar

27th February 2007, 11:49

If I removed the lights, indicators, and rear view mirrors of my bike or car, I would not be allowed to take it onto the road (yeah, I know there are exemptions for bikes and cars of a certain age but they're pretty rare these days and they're driven/ridden by people who have actually passed a licence test).
A side issue: do we feel the same about people that merely ticked a box on their car license form to get a motorcycle license also in the 'old days'?

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 11:52

A side issue: do we feel the same about people that merely ticked a box on their car license form to get a motorcycle license also in the 'old days'?

How old are we talking here? M/c licence in 1973 and cage in 1974 - had to do a written and practical for the bike, and a practical to add the cage.

skelstar

27th February 2007, 12:10

I guess 1960's maybe? I heard plenty of enviable stories when I was waiting for my Full/Restricted.

u4ea

27th February 2007, 12:17

Sure, I mean in a healthy way (back right hand corner, just outside the righthand wheel track) :niceone:

:innocent: only prior to passing it.....

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 12:17

Can only speak for my own experience. However, if someone did get their m/c licence back then in the way you mention, then chances are that they are not a problem on the road as a result of the lack of testing. Problem riders will have all been 'weeded' out by now. Or the problem is now old age, if it exists at all.

Lissa

27th February 2007, 12:17

All my dad had to do was sit on a Cops Motorcycle before they would give him a licence.. but that prob about 50 years ago.

I once came upon alot of cyclist on the main road out by Gladstone. Riding two a breast. I couldnt pass them safely at one stage and had to ride really slowly behind them for ages.... They should have moved out of the way!!!! :angry: Is it illegal to beep your horn at them?

In our local paper regard Lee Pakaraka Road (gladstone/homebush) alot of cyclist ride this road. In the local paper they have been complaining that it is not a 100k area and that alot of motorcyclist have been "speeding" through this area, and because cyclist's use it alot they want the speed limit to be alot lower. Just FYI.

Jantar

27th February 2007, 12:23

A side issue: do we feel the same about people that merely ticked a box on their car license form to get a motorcycle license also in the 'old days'?
So are there any riders on this forum old enough to remember this situation? Its certainly long before I started riding. I had to do a written, oral and practical for both my motorcycle and heavy traffic licences. Um, I never did any tests at all for my car licence though, the cop just gave it to me with my heavy traffic. He figured if I could drive either a motorcycle or a 12 tonne Bedford on the Waipori Gorge, then a car wouldn't be an issue.

Ixion

27th February 2007, 12:24

How old are we talking here? M/c licence in 1973 and cage in 1974 - had to do a written and practical for the bike, and a practical to add the cage.

Older. Lots older. Drivers licences have been law since 1925 but way back, you didn't need to take any test. Just fill in a form. I think that the first *formal* practical tests were brought in in 1953 (Transport Act 1952 I'm guessing). But for many years you could get a car and motorcycle licence at the same time, without a separate test. I think 1965 was when this changed , with a much more formal testing process.

All these dates are from memory so I may be way wrong.

jrandom

27th February 2007, 12:25

Most of us sometime-bicyclists are resigned to unpleasant treatment from other road users, whether or not we're doing anything obnoxious at the time.

A couple of weeks ago, for instance, on SH16, I had a bread roll thrown at me. The mind boggles. Maybe someone thought I looked hungry?

Personally, I prefer to ride alone when not racing in an organised event, for the same road-safety reasons being whinged about here.

It's unfortunate that the noble sport of cycling has failed to gain popular support in NZ. I suspect that the general attitude may shift substantially over the coming few decades, however.

(FWIW, a group of cyclists riding in a bunch is a 'peloton'. Pass the baguettes...)

forkoil

27th February 2007, 12:34

I once came upon alot of cyclist on the main road out by Gladstone. Riding two a breast. I couldnt pass them safely at one stage and had to ride really slowly behind them for ages.... They should have moved out of the way!!!! :angry: Is it illegal to beep your horn at them?
No, but it IS legal for them to ride 2 abreast!!

Jantar

27th February 2007, 12:38

No, but it IS legal for them to ride 2 abreast!!
However, only when they are NOT an obstruction to other road users.

Ixion

27th February 2007, 12:40

No, I think a bunch of racing cyclists is a psyclopath.

FWIW , I don't really object to them riding multi abreast, not really any worse than a big slow truck. What does get me is when they ride on the wrong side of the road (around blind bends!) , or just pull out in front of me without any check. Or barrel through red lights across my bows as I'm going through on the green.

Although I do loath bureacracy , I suspect the time is come when they need to be licensed. And some requirements about mirrors etc. No reason why they shouldn't have a rear view mirror , I had one on my bike when I was a kid , most kids did.

The lack of rules about bikes is a hangover from the days when most cyclists were school kids. And back then , there was a lot more effort put into making sure that the kids knew the Road Code (we used to get tested on it at school!) , and rode safely - although there was no official test (there wasn't really for motorcycles, either!), the local snake would come round to schools and give all the cyclists a practical test. If you were too dodgy, the teacher (or snake) would have a word with Mum or Dad.

Things have actually gone backwards.

And nowdays cyclists are almost never school kids, and they are certainly amongst the most agressive, and least courteous of road users.

Jantar

27th February 2007, 12:43

No, I think a bunch of racing cyclists is a psyclopath.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

forkoil

27th February 2007, 12:46

Theres a lot of biased bigotted crap posted in this thread which unfortunately reflects attitudes towards cyclists in this country. Before I had a major accident which put paid to my cycling, I regularly rode, raced and toured, as do some others in Kbers, and had the sorts of crap some in here boast of like truck air brakes, horns, being buzzed (pass real close) by cars, stuff thrown etc etc. It makes me really wild to see it posted here as if it is somehow justified.
Man it is really dangerous to come off at speed with the sort of gear you have on a bicycle. I myself spent 18 months off work, bad concussion, 8 operations on arm and leg.
When racing on a bike, as these people in the news clip at the start of thread are doing, the whole ferkin point of it is to ride in a bunch like that, the tactics, pacing, alliances etc that make cycle racing what it is are inherent on racing in a pack (or peleton as has been said). Would you like the Tour de France to be ridden single farkin file god dammit!!
Why do we in this country have to be so bloody intolerant. And to accuse the cyclists of that is just a way of justifying your own arrogant attitude.
Grrr Grrrr

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 12:54

forkoil - at the risk of adding fuel to an already raging fire, there are rules in place that cover ettiquette on the (open) road. Cyclists, whether racing or not, are not exempt. I agree that there are some dodgy things going on what with flying bread rolls etc and I won't defend the indefensible, but the photo that sparked this thread speaks for itself.
Just perhaps, if cyclists were squeaky-clean in their behaviour, they would have a whole lot more support from the rest of the road users.

Jantar

27th February 2007, 13:01

Theres a lot of biased bigotted crap posted in this thread which unfortunately reflects attitudes towards cyclists in this country..
Perhaps that is because many cyclist bring it on themselves.

When racing on a bike, as these people in the news clip at the start of thread are doing, the whole ferkin point of it is to ride in a bunch like that, the tactics, pacing, alliances etc that make cycle racing what it is are inherent on racing in a pack (or peleton as has been said).
So go through the process of getting the road closed, like motorcyclists do at Paeroa or Wanganui each year.

Would you like the Tour de France to be ridden single farkin file god dammit!!
Yes, if the Tour de france was ever to be held on public roads in New Zealand, then that is exactly what I would want. But then, it wouldn't be the Tour de France would it. So lets keep this revelent.

Why do we in this country have to be so bloody intolerant. And to accuse the cyclists of that is just a way of justifying your own arrogant attitude.
Grrr Grrrr
Would you like to borrow a mirror?

forkoil

27th February 2007, 13:04

forkoil - at the risk of adding fuel to an already raging fire, there are rules in place that cover ettiquette on the (open) road. Cyclists, whether racing or not, are not exempt.
While this is true, cycle racing is a legitimate, healthy sport, and it is not practical to close the roads that racing is done on, but most people know where these are and when the cyclists are racing. I think in this case, the cyclists who are racing deserve consideration for their sport. Bunch or peleton riding is just a part of the race, its not as some here think just to piss other road users off, or to have more conversations with the other riders (in fact hardly anyone says anything for fear they may give away how f*cked they are)

I agree that there are some dodgy things going on what with flying bread rolls etc and I won't defend the indefensible, but the photo that sparked this thread speaks for itself.
Yeah, they are racing ... and they are bunch riding ......

Just perhaps, if cyclists were squeaky-clean in their behaviour, they would have a whole lot more support from the rest of the road users.
As we bikers are squeaky clean ....... say no more

jrandom

27th February 2007, 13:20

if the Tour de france was ever to be held on public roads in New Zealand, then that is exactly what I would want...

The TdF runs on closed roads with a fair degree of security in place.

Towns pay hundreds of thousands of euros each year for the privilege of having the Tour route through their main street. It's very unlikely that NZ as a whole will ever approach the level of respect, nay, adoration, for the sport that the Frogs have.

On the question of wing mirrors, personally, I don't see the need for them. I always keep left and ride with the assumption that there's someone behind me, to the right, waiting to cream me. If cyclists forget to do that, it's their own silly fault.

Wing mirrors would have to come off for races, anyway - you'd never fit in a bunch.

<img src="http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/feb07/california07/california076/atoc2007-02-24_15-07-04.jpg">

forkoil

27th February 2007, 13:23

Perhaps that is because many cyclist bring it on themselves.
How, by racing in a bunch, I've covered this. Saying "they bring it on themselves" a way of justifying bad and dangerous behaviour

So go through the process of getting the road closed, like motorcyclists do at Paeroa or Wanganui each year.
Cyclist HAVE to racing very often to keep racing fit. So it aint like an annual event here ......

Yes, if the Tour de france was ever to be held on public roads in New Zealand, then that is exactly what I would want. But then, it wouldn't be the Tour de France would it. So lets keep this revelent. Would you like to borrow a mirror?
This thread is about dishing it out to cyclist for racing more than 2 abreast, so to use your spelling I think it is the accuser who is arrogant (if thats revelant)

Steam

27th February 2007, 13:41

Some people here, "joking" about taking out cyclists on purpose, just don't. Even when it's a joke it ain't funny.

How funny is cage-talk of freaking out some learner motorcyclist?
What I heard at work a few years ago:
"Ha, the other day I was cruising around in my impretza, and I saw some dorky learner on a motorbike with an L-plate on. Haha, I pulled right up behind him and like, tailgated him at a meter, it was fuckin funny, he was shittin himself. Dicks on motorbikes, they don't deserve the road. I'll fuckin ram one the next time eh, ha hehehe"

Yep, not very funny really.
Talk about the wrongs and rights of cyclists taking up more than their fair share of the road, but DON'T kid around about hitting or ramming or causing an accident on purpose.
Be a good motorcyclist and be nice.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 13:43

Forkoil, I do not condone people throwing things at, or passing too close to, cyclists - or any other vehicle, for that matter.

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.

At best, they are riding an unlicensed, unwarranted vehicle and, as you pointed out, the risks to them are great should they fall off, let alone impact with another vehicle. Surely a bit of common sense (such as is outlined in the Road Code for their safety and the safety of other road users) is in order - and many cyclists do apply the road rules and ride carefully.

At worst, they are behaving like idiots on sub-standard equipment and expecting that the driver of the motor vehicle will be able to safely stop a ton of car or 2.5 tons of SUV or several tons of 18-wheeler from 50-100km/h at a moment's notice.

The "peleton" I encountered had no pace cars, was not racing (they seemed to be meandering along the road) and was illegally riding up to 6-abreast. They also cut right-hand corners, crossing the centre-line, a couple of times.

None of them pulled into the side of the road to let me past, forcing me to slow to "Sunday Stroll" speed until I could find a place with sufficient visibility to safely pass a large group of bush bikes.

The law, as you (a licenced road user) know, permits two-abreast cycling if the road is clear but the cyclists must shift to single file when a motor vehicle approaches. I had that drilled into me between ages 5 and 8 by various "snakes" who came to my primary schools.

From my observation of that particular group, the only theories I can come up with are:
1) none of them had sufficient knowledge of the Road Code to pass a vehicle licence exam
2) they're a pack of arrogant bastards with no respect for other (paying) road users
3) both 1 and 2

In any of those cases, they had no right to be on the road.

If they had at least shown awareness that there was a vehicle behind them wanting to pass and had pulled over to allow me to do so, I would not have had a problem - I would have passed at reduced speed and a safe distance and given them a wave as I invariably do for courteous people I encounter.

Instead, they continued illegally and arrogantly blocking the lane to the point that by the time I got past them, I felt like pulling over somewhere ahead of them and verbally abusing them when they caught up. I didn't, but I certainly felt like it.

Not all cyclists are eco-friendly wonderful people who enjoy the spirit of peacefulness of the open road and a harmonious relationship with all mankind.

I'd put this bunch in the category of eco-nazis who've never read the Road Code because they've never gone for a motor vehicle licence (evil, nasty, motor vehicles!) and spend their time travelling in groups designed to cause as much inconvenience to motor vehicle owners as they possibly can - probably cycle around putting "Gas Guzzler" stickers on car and SUV windshields in their spare time. That'd explain both the attitude I saw displayed and the lack of a pace car (evil, nasty motoir vehicle...)

Ixion

27th February 2007, 13:52

Cyclist HAVE to racing very often to keep racing fit. So it aint like an annual event here ......

This thread is about dishing it out to cyclist for racing more than 2 abreast, so to use your spelling I think it is the accuser who is arrogant (if thats revelant)

No. It is about dishing it out to users of the public road who ride in a dangerous and inconsiderate fashion. As we dish it out to cagers, SUV drivers, and even other motorcyclists.

I fail to see the logic that says that because a self selected group of people decide that they "need" to race very often, that somehow justifies them being exempt from both the law and the normal courtesy of life.

It is exactly this quite extraordinarily arrogant attitude that gets up peoples noses.

forkoil

27th February 2007, 14:01

Forkoil, I do not condone people throwing things at, or passing too close to, cyclists - or any other vehicle, for that matter.
Well Wolf, I hope that puts you in the majority here, but reading the thread can you be sure?

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.
I agree wholeheartedly, and as a group when I was cycling on training rides we always did this, but when racing thats a bit of a different kettle of fish. Racing was usually done over a circuit of country roads based around the clubhouse. Most times bunches racing would be at most two abreast, but at critical times, like when a "break" was starting, on a hill or near the finish line sometimes they would go 3-4 abreast for short periods.

At best, they are riding an unlicensed, unwarranted vehicle and, as you pointed out, the risks to them are great should they fall off, let alone impact with another vehicle. Surely a bit of common sense (such as is outlined in the Road Code for their safety and the safety of other road users) is in order - and many cyclists do apply the road rules and ride carefully.
Serious cyclists have their bikes in tip top order, they have to and to say they are unlicensed and unwarranted is a little bit irrelevant. Cyclist know the limitations of their bikes and where possible ride within them.
As a motorcyclist I do about the same, and sometimes, like 90% of people here, I exceed them until common sense returns, and so do serious cyclists, particularly when the pace goes on and they dont wanna lose!!

At worst, they are behaving like idiots on sub-standard equipment and expecting that the driver of the motor vehicle will be able to safely stop a ton of car or 2.5 tons of SUV or several tons of 18-wheeler from 50-100km/h at a moment's notice.

The "peleton" I encountered had no pace cars, was not racing (they seemed to be meandering along the road) and was illegally riding up to 6-abreast. They also cut right-hand corners, crossing the centre-line, a couple of times.

None of them pulled into the side of the road to let me past, forcing me to slow to "Sunday Stroll" speed until I could find a place with sufficient visibility to safely pass a large group of bush bikes.

The law, as you (a licenced road user) know, permits two-abreast cycling if the road is clear but the cyclists must shift to single file when a motor vehicle approaches. I had that drilled into me between ages 5 and 8 by various "snakes" who came to my primary schools.

From my observation of that particular group, the only theories I can come up with are:
1) none of them had sufficient knowledge of the Road Code to pass a vehicle licence exam
2) they're a pack of arrogant bastards with no respect for other (paying) road users
3) both 1 and 2

In any of those cases, they had no right to be on the road.

If they had at least shown awareness that there was a vehicle behind them wanting to pass and had pulled over to allow me to do so, I would not have had a problem - I would have passed at reduced speed and a safe distance and given them a wave as I invariably do for courteous people I encounter.

Instead, they continued illegally and arrogantly blocking the lane to the point that by the time I got past them, I felt like pulling over somewhere ahead of them and verbally abusing them when they caught up. I didn't, but I certainly felt like it.

Not all cyclists are eco-friendly wonderful people who enjoy the spirit of peacefulness of the open road and a harmonious relationship with all mankind.

I'd put this bunch in the category of eco-nazis who've never read the Road Code because they've never gone for a motor vehicle licence (evil, nasty, motor vehicles!) and spend their time travelling in groups designed to cause as much inconvenience to motor vehicle owners as they possibly can - probably cycle around putting "Gas Guzzler" stickers on car and SUV windshields in their spare time. That'd explain both the attitude I saw displayed and the lack of a pace car (evil, nasty motoir vehicle...)
I think you are deriving more from their behaviour than is warranted (eco nazis!!). Were you in a cage or on yer bike? If on yer bike it would have been perfectly safe and justified to have worked your way thru the bunch progressively. But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.

forkoil

27th February 2007, 14:04

Indiana_Jones

27th February 2007, 14:25

Wolf

27th February 2007, 14:34

While this is true, cycle racing is a legitimate, healthy sport, and it is not practical to close the roads that racing is done on, but most people know where these are and when the cyclists are racing.
Do we? How? Unless there is signage or a pace car, how are other road users expected to know that some club has taken it upon themselves to practise bunch riding on a public road?

I think in this case, the cyclists who are racing deserve consideration for their sport. Bunch or peleton riding is just a part of the race,
Riding fast (in excess of 150km/h) and getting the knees down on corners are all part of motorcycle racing, yet the law does not permit that sort of riding on public roads. It's not practical to close off the roads to practise and Pukekohe isn't always available to practise on... does that justify screaming around public roads in excess of 150km/h and getting your knee down on the 25km/h corners without due care and respect for other road users?

When the road is not closed or clearly marked as a race route or the peleton is not accompanied by pace vehicles and safety marshalls, it is not a race and the cyclists need to show consideration for other road users by obeying the road rules.

Else one could justify people riding motorcycles or driving cars without regard for the law or for safety as "well, you can't always find a practice track and it's not practical to close the rides every time you need to practise."

Sure, there are those on motorbikes and in cars who do exceed safety boundaries on the open road - but the law and other road users do not cut them slack for it, why should anyone accept push bikers breaking the road rules?

Are people on push bikes "better than", or privileged over, the rest of us road users?

forkoil

27th February 2007, 14:36

The number one thing that pisses me off about cyclist is how they run red lights. They bitch and moan they want to use the roads etc, but half of the knobs just go though red lights and wonder why they get driven into.-Indy
While in general I dont condone this, Indy's attitude is a case of treat all vehicles on the road as the same when they aint. Just like cage drivers get pissed when bikers lane split or ride to the front of queues, Indy's attitude here is equivalent in the next rung down - bikers vs cyclists. In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some :)

Indiana_Jones

27th February 2007, 14:39

While in general I dont condone this, Indy's attitude is a case of treat all vehicles on the road as the same when they aint. Just like cage drivers get pissed when bikers lane split or ride to the front of queues, Indy's attitude here is equivalent in the next rung down - bikers vs cyclists. In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some :)

A valid point, but lane splitting and running a red are 2 different things. I can't talk, I borrow the cycle lanes, my argument is that my bike looked like the one on the road :D

-Indy

Jantar

27th February 2007, 14:51

... If on yer bike it would have been perfectly safe and justified to have worked your way thru the bunch progressively. But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.
What a great idea. I'll do this tomorrow evening, when the same bunch that use our local road every wednesday come along. I trust they will respect my intentions of riding my bike through the bunch rather than than trying to find a way around them. :scooter:

forkoil

27th February 2007, 14:59

What a great idea. I'll do this tomorrow evening, when the same bunch that use our local road every wednesday come along. I trust they will respect my intentions of riding my bike through the bunch rather than than trying to find a way around them. :scooter:
OK ratnaj, given that they go thru this road every Wed, you may be expecting them, so you know they are there. That they piss you off prob says more about you than them I'd say.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 15:11

In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some :)
So, if I'm on my motorbike, or in the car with my children on board, and the intersection is clear I can proceed against the red light so long as I do so slowly? Great, and I can tell the lovely bloke writing out the ticket that it's OK because I wasn't going flat out.

(highlights are my own)

As a cyclist, it is important that you follow the road rules and guidelines. They will increase your safety when you are cycling on the road.

Safety rules for cyclists

* Cyclists must wear an approved safety helmet. Always fasten it securely, by following the manufacturer's instructions.
* It's a good idea to wear brightly coloured or reflective clothing when cycling. That way you'll be easier to see.
* Don't ride your bicycle on a footpath unless you are delivering newspapers, mail or leaflets, or there is a sign indicating it is a shared pedestrian and cycle path.
* At intersections, you must:
o follow the rules for motor vehicles, or
o get off your bicycle and walk across.
* You can only ride alongside another cyclist or moped. You must not ride alongside a car, truck or other motor vehicle.
* Always ride in single file if passing another vehicle.
* Your bicycle must not be towed by another vehicle.
* Your bicycle can only tow a trailer (one designed to be towed by a bicycle) and must not be fitted with a sidecar.
* You must not carry a pillion passenger on your bicycle unless you have a pillion seat and footrest. If you are carrying a child, the pillion seat must protect the child's legs from the wheels.
* You must not leave a bicycle blocking a footpath.
* Where there is an adequate cycle path or cycle lane, cyclists should use it.
* You must ride with lights on when it is dark (from 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise).
* You must keep your bicycle in good working condition.

Hand signals for cyclists

You must give a hand signal at least three seconds before stopping or turning.

Always check to make sure your hand signals have been seen and understood.

Look well behind you to make sure there is room for you to turn, pull out or pass safely.

Just because people "do it the world over" does not make it right or legal for a push bike rider to cycle through a red light.

They must obey the same rules as the motor vehicles or get off their bike and walk across - presumably obeying appropriate cross signals on controlled intersections.

forkoil

27th February 2007, 15:25

So, if I'm on my motorbike, or in the car with my children on board, and the intersection is clear I can proceed against the red light so long as I do so slowly? Great, and I can tell the lovely bloke writing out the ticket that it's OK because I wasn't going flat out.
snip ...
They must obey the same rules as the motor vehicles or get off their bike and walk across - presumably obeying appropriate cross signals on controlled intersections.
Once again, equating vehicles wrt the road code seems logical, but in practise it aint, as m'cyclists we know that. Wolf, I suggest that you spend 6 months riding a bicycle thru our wonderful NZ tolerant roads before you judge cyclists, it really is quite different.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 15:26

Hey, forkoil...take the blinkers off. All I (and most here) was saying is that cyclists must obey the same rules that other motorists have to abide by, and in addition, are not to ride more than 2 abreast on a public road and (like any slow motorist) are not to impede the path of other road users.
Any attempt to 'justify' examples like the photo is just blowing smoke.
FFS - it's not difficult to understand.

forkoil

27th February 2007, 15:52

Mstrs, Cant be bothered going thru all this anymore. Just to say there are different types of vehicles on the road, each with their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. The road code is a crude blunt instrument, and as rational people we abide by the rules on the whole but not always as the conditions and practicality dictate. It aint black and white, and I say dont demonise cyclists until you've tried it yourself and see what is real, not whats in the road code...

yungatart

27th February 2007, 15:54

I've done some cycling in my time, as has one of my kids. I am not anti-cycling, nor anti-cyclists.
The photo in the first post clearly shows cyclists riding more than two abreast, and two cyclists are on the wrong side of the road.
This I have an issue with! It is against the law, it is bloody dangerous, and should some poor motorcyclist or cage driver hit one of them, it won't be the cyclists who are pilloried by the wider community but the poor bastard who had the misfortune to splatter them all over the road.
This road was NOT closed to the public, and in my experience of road riding/racing in HB, there would not have been a pace car, a marshall, or a sign warning of cyclists anywhere in sight!

Wolf

27th February 2007, 15:56

Once again, equating vehicles wrt the road code seems logical, but in practise it aint, as m'cyclists we know that. Wolf,
Errm, sorry, but wrong! As a motorcyclist I know that I am required by law to obey the road rules and that other road users will expect me to do so. If I break those rules, I expect other road users to be suiitably taken off-guard and possibly angered by my actions. I expect that an accident could occur if I were to break the road rules around other vehicles who are expecting me to behave in a predictable fashion.

The road code actually goes on to say "Drivers expect cyclists to obey the road rules."

And the assumption I live by is that other riders/drivers expect me to obey the rules around them regardless of whether I'm in a car, truck, SUV or on a motorcycle or bicycle - my assumption is not that I am privileged and I can bend the rules to suit me because of what i am riding/driving.

If I chose to break the law, I would do so knowing there is every possibility that another road user may not be able to predict my actions and therefore the onus is upon me to either:
a) stop doing it when there are other vehicles around or
b) accept it was my own stupid fault if something goes terribly wrong.

I suggest that you spend 6 months riding a bicycle thru our wonderful NZ tolerant roads before you judge cyclists, it really is quite different.
I judge anyone disobeying the rules to the point that their behaviour becomes unpredictable - bicycles, cars, SUVs, trucks, motorcyclists and pedestrians alike. If someone should materialise suddenly to my left pulling a mono on their motorcycle and passing me (on the left) at a good 50+ km/h faster than I'm going, then I will judge them to be a fuckwit - plain and simple.

KLOWN

27th February 2007, 15:58

Once again, equating vehicles wrt the road code seems logical, but in practise it aint, as m'cyclists we know that. Wolf, I suggest that you spend 6 months riding a bicycle thru our wonderful NZ tolerant roads before you judge cyclists, it really is quite different.

Why as motorcylists do we know this? we have to follow the road code EVERYONE who is on the road has to follow the road code.

MSTRS

27th February 2007, 15:58

Wolf

27th February 2007, 16:05

Why as motorcylists do we know this? we have to follow the road code EVERYONE who is on the road has to follow the road code.
More importantly, other road users expect that the road rules will be followed even if they are breaking the rules themselves - they count on it, I suspect: "It's OK to speed, anyone else around here will be at or near the legal limit, I'll have plenty of time to react..."

Imagine their surprise when they encounter granny in her Morrie Thou' around the corner doing 40km/h and straddling the white line...

Of course, granny was expecting that anyone approaching from behind at 100km/h would have time to slow down...

Mr Skid

27th February 2007, 16:23

I was on Old North Rd the other day, and I saw this dude on a bike.
He caught my attention as he was wearing BLUE Quickstep shorts with a ORANGE Scotty Browns jersey.

I've seen some poorly dress cyclists before, but I guessed he must have been stoned when he got dressed that day.

He looked pretty hungry too, shame I didn't have any bread rolls, else I would have thrown him one.

NhuanH

27th February 2007, 16:36

I was on Old North Rd the other day, and I saw this dude on a bike.
He caught my attention as he was wearing BLUE Quickstep shorts with a ORANGE Scotty Browns jersey.

I've seen some poorly dress cyclists before, but I guessed he must have been stoned when he got dressed that day.
You = GHEY

He looked pretty hungry too, shame I didn't have any bread rolls, else I would have thrown him one.
What, didn't want to club him with your crutches?

Mr Skid

27th February 2007, 16:44

What, didn't want to club him with your crutches?
I hung out the window and gave him the fingers.
He smiled at me.
I felt dirty.

So what about Jan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/6396899.stm) eh?
Oh noooesss!!11!1!

Alice

27th February 2007, 16:47

Yep, guilty of riding thru red lights on my pedally, usually turning left with the road flowing that way, not through a t intersection. I am concious when doing it that its going to piss some people off, but guess what, to bad, do you always obey every rule ? I sure as hell do not. I got pulled up by a cop one morning pedalling to work for going through a red light, I smiled sweetly and took his little lecture, whistling silently to myself and glancing skyward.

Yes, we should all be good boys and girls and obey all the rules but how friggin boring is that. As long as what we do does not put anyone else in danger then wtf.

A lot of people seem to have a grudge against cyclists, I used to cycle over 1200/1400km each year, we'd do 400km a week easy at times and more. I was always concious of other road users, main reason being your own safety. We would cycle 2 abreast and if a car was approaching from behind and there was room for it to pass with no oncoming traffic then we'd just keep our line, still the cars at times thought it was a major inconvenance to have to swerve and would not be shy to let yu no, if there was oncoming traffic then we'd get into single file. Other times I'd be pedalling along minding my own buisness enjoying the day, in no ones way and some small brain would decide its a good idea to hurl a bottle of coke or a tomato or something at yu. Also as I mentioned earlier, lottsa cars and trucks think its fun to play Finns game, I would not usually bother reacting, its like whatever, you want to run me over then just friggin do it. Teaches yu good reaction skills though, its all good when transfering it to the world of motorcycling. Most cyclists do not cause a problem, and cycle clubs are proactive in trying to make sure the riders obey the road rules, people lose series points for dangerous riding. There are some ignorant people out there, that goes for all walks of life so don't tar all with the same brush.

Perhaps you could lay a complaint with the local constabulary and insist the cyclist in the photo be charged with failing to keep left, hell, hes guilty as, its there for all to see.

I gotta go now, home time and I got a red light or two to pedal through.

Yu all be good now.

forkoil

27th February 2007, 16:51

Nice Alice, well said. :)

Guitana

27th February 2007, 17:05

I suppose on a Cyclists forum somewhere they've probably got a thread on Bloody Skate Boarders!!!!

forkoil

27th February 2007, 17:16

I suppose on a Cyclists forum somewhere they've probably got a thread on Bloody Skate Boarders!!!!
nail <-> head <-> hit

jrandom

27th February 2007, 17:33

I suppose on a Cyclists forum somewhere they've probably got a thread on Bloody Skate Boarders!!!!

Pedestrians, mate. Motherfucking pedestrians. Blind, deaf, suicidal, and most of the time only a couple of unknowing steps away from mutilation.

jrandom

27th February 2007, 17:38

I was on Old North Rd the other day, and I saw this dude on a bike...

And immediately became aroused?

Understandable.

I hear that I constitute "quite a nice view from behind". You may even have met the chick who said that.

He caught my attention as he was wearing BLUE Quickstep shorts with a ORANGE Scotty Browns jersey.

I'd catch your attention anywhere, anytime, baby. You know it.

And I'll have you know that Scotty pays me to wear that jersey, thank you very fucking much.

I guessed he must have been stoned when he got dressed...

It was the weekend. I'm always stoned.

He looked pretty hungry too...

Mrs Fish hid the chocolate.

McJim

27th February 2007, 17:49

elle-f

27th February 2007, 17:57

A work colleague of mine got a letter from the police yesterday and they showed her car over the centre line on the Rimutakas on one of those sweeping bends when you can see ahead - and the car was no more than a tyre over - and they were wanting to know details of who was driving and where they were going and if she gave false details then it's a 10,000 fine. To see those cyclists doing what the hell they like kinda pisses me off.

OH if you are going over the Takas - be careful because over the past few weeks there have always been coppers there taking pix on their cheapass digicams.

Guitana

27th February 2007, 18:23

Ahhh this ol' chestnut again.

Unfortunately I obey the road rules on foot, on pushies, on motorbikes and in cars....sorry to disappoint but my problem is with the people who don't - irrespective of the vehicles they use!

Always sensible Mc Jim!!!! you need to live a little break a law here and there it's only illegal if you get caught!!

BUNGY

27th February 2007, 18:32

Never had a problem with them until today. Was riding up one of the back roads in Te Puna which has narrow lanes, is very twisty and is full of blind corners.

Come round a corner and they are riding 2 abreast which I guess is legal. The thing that really annoyed me though is that they turned around and saw I was there but made no real effort to make room for me. After sitting behind them for a while one finally moved off the center line and let me pass.

They are so vunerable yet they act like they own the road, bigger ego than some of the boy racers.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 18:42

As long as what we do does not put anyone else in danger then wtf.
Until the day you go through a red light as you described and someone fails to stop the ton or more of vehicle they're driving quite legally - at 50km/h through a green light - and takes you out. The SCU will find you at fault after they've squeegeed your remains off the tarmac and picked bits of you out of the front grille but that's not going to stop the driver from feeling like shit and waking up from nightmares for years and it won't stop your family and friends from blaming him/her for failing to stop.

Or maybe they'll do a panicked swerve into the other lane and you'll survive - too bad about the motorcyclist or car carrying toddlers travelling quite legitimately in the opposite direction...

Or maybe it will be me that fails to stop on my little XT225 - we could get sequentially numbered toe-tags or whatever it is they use to identify corpses here in NZ. That cock on the treddley that swerved in front of my TS125 endangered both of our lives with his stupidity.

There are some ignorant people out there, that goes for all walks of life so don't tar all with the same brush.
I don't, but I do call a spade a spade and when I see cyclists clumping six abreast without warning, people running red lights or charging through roundabouts without slowing (or even looking), or doing a number of other bone-headed things - irrespective of what vehicle they are in or on - then I call 'em arrogant fuckwits.

Cyclists who move from two-abreast to single file when vehicles approach as per the road code, people who actually stop at red lights and check when they are about to enter an intersection etc I respect and usually acknowledge with a wave or nod. Those who go out of their way to let me out of a side road onto a packed main road or pull over because they know their slow speed is holding up traffic I usually give a wave and a toot on the horn to acknowledge that they are courteous above and beyond the call.

The gist of your post is that you feel you have some sort of right or privilege over other road users. Fine, you're entitled to your deluded opinion but do it in front of me and expect at least the "bird" or the fingers - I won't throw anything at you, though. Get yourself killed doing it and I'll call it "evolution in action". Nothing personal - I'd feel the same about any idiot who removed themselves from the gene pool by doing something stupid. Get someone else killed or injured in the process and you can prepare to be hated... Consequences.

You and forkoil are promoting the myth that cyclists are above the law and free of consequence and "everyone around the world does it as it is our right".

You're both wrong. Only luck has stopped you from being dead wrong.

You complain that people seem to have a grudge against cyclists in the same post in which you brag about flagrantly breaking the law. If you don't want people to think cyclists are dangerous retards without a clue of basic road safety, do something about it: demonstrate that you are a safe rider and obey the fucking road rules.

You complain that people view all cyclists as arrogant and inconsiderate in the same post you admit to being arrogant and inconsiderate. You want people to view cyclists as considerate people rather than arrogant wankers, show consideration for other road users and "keep as far to the left as practicable" like the "Good Book" says.

No, people don't like to have to pull out and swerve around two push bikes blocking the whole lane. People tend not to like having to brake and downshift suddenly, whilst frantically looking to see if it is safe to cross the centre line and pass, when they round a corner to find slow traffic blocking the lane.

Personally I don't like it when cars/vans/trucks/whatever pull out into the road in front of me and practically come to a complete stop before starting on their way again - I don't like it so I make sure I accelerate smoothly out of the side road and up the road out of consideration for other road users.

It's a mix of safety and consideration for others. By your own admission, you seem to care for neither.

Ixion

27th February 2007, 18:53

No, people don't like to have to pull out and swerve around two push bikes blocking the whole lane. People tend not to like having to brake and downshift suddenly, whilst frantically looking to see if it is safe to cross the centre line and pass, when they round a corner to find slow traffic blocking the lane.

In fairness, that is not in itself the fault of cyclists. Obviously, they are slow traffic. But if someone has to brake suddenly and frantically on encountering slow traffic round a corner, then they probably came round the corner too fast. After all it could have been anything round that corner. Animals, children, tractor, boat.

What annoys me is when cyclists are spread across the road , and will not move over even when it would be practical to do so.

Horney1

27th February 2007, 19:49

So, anyone in for a spot of motorcycle racing on some country roads? I hear that being a menace on the roads is OK as long as you are racing! Yeeehaaaa! Bring it on! Not sure if the following quotes will work but here goes...

..of biased bigotted crap posted in this thread which unfortunately reflects attitudes towards cyclists in this country. Before I had a major accident which put paid to my cycling, I regularly rode, raced and toured............

So, forkoil, you had an accident. Why was that?

Man it is really dangerous to come off at speed with the sort of gear you have on a bicycle. I myself spent 18 months off work, bad concussion, 8 operations on arm and leg.

Ah, so you're saying you were speeding and you fell of while wearing hardly anything (while racing?). I hope you weren't in the centre of a public road in front of any cars at the time. It could have been much worse!

...not practical to close the roads that racing is done on, but most people know where these are and when the cyclists are racing.... in this case, the cyclists who are racing deserve consideration for their sport...

I, for one, don't care about keeping up with which bicycle races will be blocking which roads! I suggest hiring a track for race days! Any other organisation has to!

For F**K sake, cyclists that inconsiderately block roads do not deserve consideration for their sport or any other reason. Why should we consider the inconsiderate?

Cyclist HAVE to racing very often to keep racing fit......

Yes, so buy an indoor trainer. Don't piss us off on the roads!

Serious cyclists have their bikes in tip top order,......

Yawn, yes so do motorcyclists generally and we are not allowed to race on the roads. (It's a safety thing, you know)

Cyclist know the limitations of their bikes and where possible ride within them......

Yawn, yes so do motorcyclists generally and we are not allowed to race on the roads. (It's a safety thing, you know)
Oh, and bicycles are limited to, aren't they? Like, much more limited than anything else on the roads with a motor and registration. I guess that's why everyone gets so p*ssed off with them being in the centre of the road.

In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru... Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear......

Hmmm, is flatout like about 200km/hr or 100km/hr, forkoil? I've always thought that it wouldn't be dangerous if I just quickly buzz across through that red light after waiting for what seems to be an eternity with no cars coming or going but, no, it's against the law. Please also consider most of us could go from zilch to 'flatout' in the time it takes you to create another wiff of dribble.

I had to pass a few pseudo racer cyclists in the weekend. Luckily, with all of the great downhill corners involved on a narrowish road they had spread out and I could pick them off as short straights allowed, still a pain in the arse though. I had one that decided to go centre very early on a straight. I met him as I exited a corner and lined him up (in about 0.5 of a second) to naturally pass him on right (while he was still left), of course the f**kwit picked just the moment that I had committed to change his line to the centre (a foot or so from the centre line)! Luckily, I wasn't over committed and with a quick brake & change took him on his left. Talk about a dirty look from him! I think he knew I was approaching and didn't want me to pass because he was a long way from the next corner!! I WILL NOT SIT BEHIND F*****N SH*THEADS P*SSING ALONG AT SLOW SPEEDS ON SOME OF THE BEST ROADS OF THE DAY!! I'm out there for a good time to!

Yes, I have ridden bicycles a lot to BUT I'm shit scared of cars (or anything for that matter) approaching from the rear. Especially on country roads I break the law (hehehe) and ride on the opposite side of the road just so I can see if any of those cages are too far left. The last thing I want is to be knocked off my bicycle by some idiot. I saw big dirty dark Ford (on the same ride as above) cruisin' along ahead of me and drifting into the dirt on the side of a decently wide road. DEFINITELY MUST get past that one before he damages me. Sure enough he had frontal left corner damage! Those are the sorts of cars bicyclists should be thinking of. KEEP 'EM scared!!

Wolf

27th February 2007, 19:51

But if someone has to brake suddenly and frantically on encountering slow traffic round a corner, then they probably came round the corner too fast.
I'm not talking sideways drift and burning rubber, here. A lot of winding roads have pretty much blind corners - and they are not marked "55" - the theory is you are allowed to do 100km/h around them and, since "driving so you can stop in half the visible distance" would entail slowing to a crawl, pretty much everyone takes them at the open road speed. You round the corner and Lo! you've caught up with a tractor or granny's Morrie Thou' or a couple of cyclists. You aren't speeding so you can stop/slow in time but you do get the "Cripes!" reaction. You slow, down-shift and you're on a winding road so i's probably not safe to swing out past them. Mildly annoying already - you're on your way somewhere and you've had to slow "unexpectedly" (bearing in mind that you should be driving/riding with the expectation you may have to brake suddenly to avoid Mr Ixion's animals.)

Granny and the tractor driver can't do a lot abut it - the old Morrie goes through a pint of oil a day and the last time it exceeded 40km/h was when she left the handbrake off outside the shop at the top of Queen St, the tractor is by nature wide and lumbering. The cyclists, however, can swing into single file to let you pass. Failure to do so is discourteous and arrogant. The transition to "rather annoying" is a short step and "bloody infuriating" is not far behind.

As to pulling out of a side road in a car (especially one capable of fantastic acceleration and top speed), slowing to a halt, reselecting first gear and then slowly crawling away up the road while drivers (that should have been let to go by) are treading on the brakes behind them: Fuck sakes! some people need to learn how to power around a corner. Believe me, the "squid" phenomenon is not limited to motorcycles...

deeknow

27th February 2007, 21:00

FWIW , I don't really object to them riding multi abreast, not really any worse than a big slow truck.

Good call, in fact a cyclist on-the-move is often faster. I used to love blasting down this side of the Kaimai's on a push bike, knee out, carving it down through the sweepers, passing or at least keeping pace with trucks, and many cars. 70-80kmh downhill in a Lycra outfit can be kinda thrilling :Punk:

What does get me is when they ride on the wrong side of the road (around blind bends!) , or just pull out in front of me without any check. Or barrel through red lights across my bows as I'm going through on the green.

yeah, but lets be honest, these things are just likely to be caused by a Kiwibiker member as a TeAwamutu sports cyclist. :yes:

deeknow

27th February 2007, 21:04

This photo in last night's paper illustrates perfectly one of the biggest bitches we have with these pricks

Yeah but, notice they're approaching a give-way sign, it's normal for a group of bikes to bunch up like this at a give-way or stop-sign, in fact in the long run they probably save you time when they all move off a little closer together than when they would if you demanded they stay in single/double file.

I just love the way this topic gets all you non-push-bike riding types so upset. :second:

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 21:31

This thread is about dishing it out to cyclist for racing more than 2 abreast, so to use your spelling I think it is the accuser who is arrogant (if thats revelant)

And more than 2 abreast is illegal unless there's a road closure involved.

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 21:32

In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru.

Maybe not dangerous but illegal.

Ixion

27th February 2007, 21:52

yeah, but lets be honest, these things are just likely to be caused by a Kiwibiker member as a TeAwamutu sports cyclist. :yes:

I hope no Kiwibiker would be guilty of such dereliction, but if one were I would be as swift to condemn him or her as I would a cyclist. There is very seldom any excuse for being on the wrong side of the road on blind bends, and whilst a sneaky sneak through a left hand turn against a red light is not a big issue , shooting across the intersection against a red is downright stupid. And pulling out in front of faster traffic without checking is a good way to end up as a hood ornament.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 22:12

I just love the way this topic gets all you non-push-bike riding types so upset. :second:
Oh, any topic in which someone spouts drivel abut it being OK to break the law and/or be inconsiderate because of the vehicle they ride/drive gets me upset - especially when they start whinging that nobody respects them and that everybody is too quick to condemn all of their ilk.

Sure, there are advantages to all vehicles - I saw a classic on the way home: heading up Tainui Street towards Lake Road, a guy on a scooter turns down Tainui St. From the way he suddenly appears I know he's come off Lake Domain Cres over the crest of the hill rather than along Lake Road. I'm a fair way from the intersection so he U-turns smartly around the traffic island and stops at Lake Road. I pull up alongside him and I can see the long queue of cars waiting to turn right out of Lake Domain Cres onto Lake Road and I know what he's done - he's taken the Left-turn track up to Lake Road, turned left onto Lake Rd then right to do a U-turn in Tainui St rather than wait behind all the cars to do a right-hand turn.

He then safely pulls out into Lake Road heading in the direction he wishes to go, I follow and turn down Lake Domain Cres to head home - not one of the cars waiting to turn right onto Lake Road has left its place and he's already on his way.

Did he use the advantages of a small, light motorcycle? Yes.

Did he break the law in doing so? No.

U-turns are not illegal on Tainui St and I was a safe distance away when he executed his manoeuvre, then he waited safely (first in line for a left-hand turn rather than last in line for a right-hand turn) for a clear break to continue on his way. He didn't lane split, he didn't behave dangerously.

There are advantages to push bikes, too...

Breaking the law and being an inconsiderate road user are not among them.

And breaking the law and being inconsiderate then whining that everyone assumes all cyclists are arrogant and irresponsible is just fucking stupid.

I guess I just get upset about stupidity...

If people don't like the general public's image of their group (whatever it is), it is their responsibility to demonstrate to the public at large that they are not like that and spread a positive image.

BTW, I also had some dork in a cage pull out in front of me at the roundabout - no worries, I was travelling with due care and did not endanger myself. I did, however, judge him to be a fuckwit, as is my wont.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 22:49

So, anyone in for a spot of motorcycle racing on some country roads? I hear that being a menace on the roads is OK as long as you are racing! Yeeehaaaa! Bring it on!
Oh bugger, so the boi racers are in the right, then.

Yes, I have ridden bicycles a lot to BUT I'm shit scared of cars (or anything for that matter) approaching from the rear. Especially on country roads I break the law (hehehe) and ride on the opposite side of the road just so I can see if any of those cages are too far left. The last thing I want is to be knocked off my bicycle by some idiot.
Good idea, actually. That's why pedestrians are supposed to walk on the right-hand side of the road - so they're facing the on-coming traffic and have time to evade if necessary rather than getting caught unawares from behind. On a pushbike you wouldn't be taking up any more room than a pedestrian, anyway, so it wouldn't matter.

I wouldn't recommend trying the same tactic in a car or even on a motorbike...

Lil_Byte

27th February 2007, 22:52

unfortunatley it'll be the cager that gets the blame when the pushbikers are really to blame...

I was lucky tyhe cyclist got the blame when I hit one. My insurance paid out and now he is going pissy cause my insurance company are suing him for around $10K.

Hope that teaches the bastard a lesson

Wolf

27th February 2007, 23:16

I was lucky tyhe cyclist got the blame when I hit one. My insurance paid out and now he is going pissy cause my insurance company are suing him for around $10K.

Hope that teaches the bastard a lesson
What'd he do?

Lou Girardin

28th February 2007, 05:52

Stebels are great on psyclists. The two who were using all the left lane on one of the canal roads heading down to Paeroa are probably still trying to clean the shit out of their tights.

forkoil

28th February 2007, 09:13

What'd he do?
The crime was, being a cyclist, ...... the bastard

Jantar

28th February 2007, 09:44

Here's the story about lil_byte and the cyclist.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=38425

Alice

28th February 2007, 09:50

Until the day you go through a red light as you described and someone fails to stop the ton or more of vehicle they're driving quite legally - at 50km/h through a green light - and takes you out. The SCU will find you at fault after they've squeegeed your remains off the tarmac and picked bits of you out of the front grille but that's not going to stop the driver from feeling like shit and waking up from nightmares for years and it won't stop your family and friends from blaming him/her for failing to stop.

Or maybe they'll do a panicked swerve into the other lane and you'll survive - too bad about the motorcyclist or car carrying toddlers travelling quite legitimately in the opposite direction...

Or maybe it will be me that fails to stop on my little XT225 - we could get sequentially numbered toe-tags or whatever it is they use to identify corpses here in NZ. That cock on the treddley that swerved in front of my TS125 endangered both of our lives with his stupidity.

I don't, but I do call a spade a spade and when I see cyclists clumping six abreast without warning, people running red lights or charging through roundabouts without slowing (or even looking), or doing a number of other bone-headed things - irrespective of what vehicle they are in or on - then I call 'em arrogant fuckwits.

Cyclists who move from two-abreast to single file when vehicles approach as per the road code, people who actually stop at red lights and check when they are about to enter an intersection etc I respect and usually acknowledge with a wave or nod. Those who go out of their way to let me out of a side road onto a packed main road or pull over because they know their slow speed is holding up traffic I usually give a wave and a toot on the horn to acknowledge that they are courteous above and beyond the call.

The gist of your post is that you feel you have some sort of right or privilege over other road users. Fine, you're entitled to your deluded opinion but do it in front of me and expect at least the "bird" or the fingers - I won't throw anything at you, though. Get yourself killed doing it and I'll call it "evolution in action". Nothing personal - I'd feel the same about any idiot who removed themselves from the gene pool by doing something stupid. Get someone else killed or injured in the process and you can prepare to be hated... Consequences.

You and forkoil are promoting the myth that cyclists are above the law and free of consequence and "everyone around the world does it as it is our right".

You're both wrong. Only luck has stopped you from being dead wrong.

You complain that people seem to have a grudge against cyclists in the same post in which you brag about flagrantly breaking the law. If you don't want people to think cyclists are dangerous retards without a clue of basic road safety, do something about it: demonstrate that you are a safe rider and obey the fucking road rules.

You complain that people view all cyclists as arrogant and inconsiderate in the same post you admit to being arrogant and inconsiderate. You want people to view cyclists as considerate people rather than arrogant wankers, show consideration for other road users and "keep as far to the left as practicable" like the "Good Book" says.

No, people don't like to have to pull out and swerve around two push bikes blocking the whole lane. People tend not to like having to brake and downshift suddenly, whilst frantically looking to see if it is safe to cross the centre line and pass, when they round a corner to find slow traffic blocking the lane.

Personally I don't like it when cars/vans/trucks/whatever pull out into the road in front of me and practically come to a complete stop before starting on their way again - I don't like it so I make sure I accelerate smoothly out of the side road and up the road out of consideration for other road users.

It's a mix of safety and consideration for others. By your own admission, you seem to care for neither.

Gosh, your imagination has really expanded on the things I said. You are quite dramatic in some of your comebacks.

I do not think cyclists have a right or privelidge over other road users, if we disobey the law then we pay the price just as motorists do, ...when caught. What I said was a bit of a wind up for you good jo citizens. I will never pull out in front of a ten ton truck or a car, I do not have a death wish, nor do I want anyone else to have an accident because of something I do. I said I do not usually run red lights at a t intersection, saying that when training early in the morning and ride up to a set of lights and there is absolutly no traffic, do you think I sit there waiting for the lights to go green, those little scensor things on the road do not pick up a cyclist and change to green. And yes I often scoot around a left hander with a red light, its causing no danger to anyone, even if its the law, the road flows that way. And I do use those things in my head called eyes looking looking all the time for cars , trucks, people that may be about to cross the road, dogs etc.

Cyclist are by law entitled to ride 2 abreast, even in traffic and it does not block the whole lane. I explained that I do so if its safe, if its a narrow busy road then we go single file, a quiet road then I'll sit 2 across, sure the car has to swerve, oh my god, what a major inconvience, but I'm not braking the law or causing any danger, cause the roads clear of oncoming traffic and its not against the law. After 15 odd years in the sport I have never had an crash (on road / off roads another story ) or caused anyone else any grief, had to dodge plenty of crashes in races and seem a person laying on the road dying as a result. That was nothing to do with a car.

As for removing ourselves from the gene pool, well motorcyclists seem to do a better job of that since you brought it up. Not a very nice subject so thats all I will say on that one.

You say I am arrogant and ignorant, whatever, thats your perception, you do not know me. You can view cyclists however you wish, I do not really give a toss, its sorta amusing the hollier than thou attitude of some people, so you never speed hu, hmmmm, find that hard to believe. Do you never park your motorbike on the footpath so someone does not knock it over in their car. Do you always obey every little rule and law.

I am not saying its right for cyclists to be inconsiderate and run every red light in town to the peril of others or ride 6 abreast and hold up traffic but there time and place for everything in my mind, using good judgment and common scense, law or no law.

I think you will find that the people that cause the most hazard on pushbikes are not very experienced, I see some classic examples of what not to do as well at times. Anyone that has spent any time on the road knows the dangers, I could tell you many stories of people being hit by cars through no fault of there own.

MSTRS

28th February 2007, 10:09

I think most of us would agree that arrogant road users come in all modes of transport. It is unfortunate that there does seem to be a preponderance of them in the form of roadracing cyclists tho. This attitude is not only displayed on the road - I was attending a bike meet some years ago and at the parking area afterwards, some dickwad leaned his (poxy) Cannondale against my car. On being told to move it or I would :innocent: , his response was that close from earning him a smack in the mouth. That some cyclists believe they have a god-given right to do whatever they want is what upsets me.

forkoil

28th February 2007, 12:01

A pesky cyclist really wants the driver of a white van with tinted windows, who vented his/her road rage at a group of cyclists by the airport yesterday morning and knocked one into the kerbing, to know of the resulting injuries. "Just in case they are interested, I am okay, the ambulance didn't take long to come at all and the surgeon tells me that after two operations on my broken shoulder I should get 75 per cent function again. Awesome ... "

Now wait for the "while I dont condone hitting cyclists, they are not helping themselves by ..... (in other words they asked for it)" inevitable response.

Recognise that while cyclists (like everyone) are no angels, the level and intensity of other road users anger at them is waayy beyond the bounds of reasonableness. Examine your attitudes, and try to see where they come from, honestly ......

Jantar

28th February 2007, 12:20

.....Recognise that while cyclists (like everyone) are no angels, the level and intensity of other road users anger at them is waayy beyond the bounds of reasonableness. Examine your attitudes, and try to see where they come from, honestly ......
forkoil, Over the years I have ridden many thousands of km on a pushbike. I still often ride the 8km to Clyde and back. I have never experienced any hint of road rage, or any bad attitude from any motorists or motorcyclists. Maybe its because I keep well to left and do not obstruct other traffic.

In Central Otago we get many hundreds of visiting cyclists touring on our roads. They also do not cause any problems, and I have never seen any drivers or riders get upset at these ones. It is only the groups of cyclists who ride many abreast and refuse to make room for other traffic that cause any problems at all.

So, let me examine my attitude as you suggest: I have no problem with genuine cyclists, just obstructors.
Let me try to see where they come from: Its obvious that because they are either in a race or training for a race that they believe the road rules no longer apply to them. Unfortunately, because I ride a motorcycle, they are just as much a danger to me as I am to them, so for the safety of all concerned they should obey the road rules and ride only two abreast, or single file if they are likely to cause an obstruction.

forkoil

28th February 2007, 14:20

I think most of us would agree that arrogant road users come in all modes of transport. It is unfortunate that there does seem to be a preponderance of them in the form of roadracing cyclists tho. This attitude is not only displayed on the road - I was attending a bike meet some years ago and at the parking area afterwards, some dickwad leaned his (poxy) Cannondale against my car. On being told to move it or I would :innocent:
You dont think you were reacting a bit strongly to this "dickwad" who leaned his "poxy Cannondale" against your car. Its not exactly a 10 ton truck this Cannondale (alu frame, 2.6 pounds weight (yankee things)). Perhaps because he was an arrogant bloody cyclist that added to the situation (good on you for not punching him in the mouth)

Horney1

28th February 2007, 14:25

I had a good laugh this morning at the expense of an arrogant cyclist. Probably worth a mention here...

After battling 40 odd kms of dense multi-laned crawling traffic I used an empty right lane to move to the front at some traffic lights (to go straight) then right at the next intersection. A bicycle was on the right of the straight ahead lane so I pointed my sharp end to his left so when I pulled the trigger I could zip around on his left and not be held up. Another lycra lad pulled up to my left (I was in front of the first car) and moved forward just enough to block my way. Not having a bar of that I moved forward a foot to establish my intent & proceeded to keep an eye on the traffic lights to my left. Of course with my dark visor he took this as a stare-down, stomped his feet and moved his bike forward until his back wheel was a few centimeters in front of mine (still leftish though). Of course he simultaneously blocked the way of a young lady pedestrian who bumped his rear wheel as she squeezed between us (I was in the process on front brake bouncing back to make room). Not realising the girl was even there he gave me a "wtf did you do that for" look and asked why don't I just go around ( I'd already been through that excercise moments before). So I said urgently and quite loudly "The light's green!" (it wasn't, hehehe), at which point he turned forward to go, realised he'd been had and turned back to continue mouthing at me. At which point the lights did turn green, he lost the start, had cars coming at his arse (I guess he liked it) and had me riding towards him close enough that he could clearly hear my unflattering description of him... It would have been so much easier if he had given a little room - not so much fun for me of course! The only bugger is that he had the advantage of being able to get my rego and cause problems for me which I couldn't do for him.

MSTRS

28th February 2007, 14:25

You dont think you were reacting a bit strongly to this "dickwad" who leaned his "poxy Cannondale" against your car. Its not exactly a 10 ton truck this Cannondale (alu frame, 2.6 pounds weight (yankee things)). Perhaps because he was an arrogant bloody cyclist that added to the situation (good on you for not punching him in the mouth)

I don't give a rat's how heavy his bike was...it was MY car, MY paintwork, and I wasn't asked if it was ok.
EDIT: I wonder if he would have minded me parking my car 'up against' his bike?

pete376403

28th February 2007, 15:51

A number of years ago, cyclists in Wellington moaned about the state of the bicycle path that runs alongside the Hutt Rd between Petone and Ngauranga. Because it was in a very bad state, they wouldn't use it - because they wouldn't use it, it became a dumping ground for all sorts of trash. Anyway, after a lot of moaning, complaining about the dangers of riding on the roadway, etc, Wellington and Petone councils spent large sums of money upgrading the cycle path. So will the f*ckers use it now? No way. God knows the Hutt Rd is dangerous enough, several cyclists have been killed and injured - so why won't they use their armco protected exclusive lane?

MisterD

28th February 2007, 16:39

Ok, I'll put my hand up as a cyclist too and here's a recent experience.

A few saturday's ago, the morning the QM2 came in. I'm on my regular training ride along the bays to St Heliers and the traffic is crawling at maybe 20kph.
Me and another guy who happened to be heading the same way are riding two abreast and chatting, as you do, going the same speed as the queue but with possibly a cars length between us and the cage in front....what happens? The plonker behind us in his Legacy wagon starts going off on one hitting his horn, driving inches of our rear wheels and threatening to overtake down the median...all because he could gain 10 yards?

It's no wonder to me that cyclists get conditioned to a "fuck you" attitude.

KLOWN

28th February 2007, 18:19

I rode a bike to uni everyday for a year and rode to school for many years when I was younger and never recieved any abuse or road rage. I always kept to the left always signalled my turns and rode considerately for other road users. I have met some real fuckwits who cycle like they own the road, I and other road users only have proplems with them not the considerate responsible cyclists

Wolf

28th February 2007, 20:50

This happened ages ago:

Ex-fiancee turns up at my place in dire need of a cigarette and a strong coffee. She'd been out in the car with her boyfriend and they'd been arguing. Her boyfriend stops the car at the lights at Victoria St and she gives him a hearty "fuck you" and opens the door to get out.

Psycho-list slams into the door and folds it back on its hinges. Scares the shit out of her - hence the need for a coffee and cigarette.

Of course, we could say it was all her fault - she shouldn't have opened the door. The poor psycho-list had every right to be speeding along between the stopped cars and the curb (no cycle lane) at such a speed that not only was he unable to stop, he practically ripped the door off. The road code is, after all, only a blunt instrument and such considerations as driving/riding to the conditions (and in such a way that you can stop if something unexpected happens) can be ignored at will by certain privileged folk.

NordieBoy

28th February 2007, 21:00

This happened ages ago:

Happened to me too.
Bikeling home after school and this lady opens her car door. :(
My left knuckles hit the end of the door and bent it up so she couldn't shut it. :D

YLWDUC

28th February 2007, 21:04

YLWDUC

28th February 2007, 21:06

Happened to me too.
Bikeling home after school and this lady opens her car door. :(
My left knuckles hit the end of the door and bent it up so she couldn't shut it. :D

Ouch. That happened to my brother when he was about 5ft behind me. Did she even care enough to check up on you after?

Ixion

28th February 2007, 21:16

I've heard of motorcycles hitting car doors that were irrationally opened :innocent:. Can't really balme cyclists for splitting, we do it too, they just do it a bit more extreme.

KLOWN

28th February 2007, 21:20

This is absolutely ridiculous ! :angry:

The attitude on here of bike riders vs cyclists is exactly the same as cages vs riders. A car driver will think that because they pay for their petrol they have the right to take up the whole lane and not let a motorbike past when lane splitting (which is against the law, technically). Put the driver on a bike, and when we can't crap on about the cages because they'll run us over, just whine about the cyclists.

Yes, some cyclists may ride more than 2 abreast, but those that do are usually the same kinds of people who could don a 1-piece set of leathers and run every red-light at 100km/hr on their busa, just because they could. And while I agree that Darwin will even out the gene pool eventually, Road rage is only going to speed up the process.

(And cyclists don't pay road registration charges for a very good reason. We should in fact pay them to ride their bikes, instead of sitting in their cages congesting our roads.)

NO! as many posts have said, REGUARDLESS of what vehicle they are in cycle, car, bike its thier inconsiderateness(sp?) and lane splitting is LEGAL, its just an overtaking manouver. ALSO I like many other have ridden cycles and don't have ANY problems with cages cause we aren't dumb fucks that try to take up the whole road.

edit: I don't have a problem with cyclists when I'm on my bike its too easy to over take/get round them its only in a cage when they become a problem.

YLWDUC

28th February 2007, 21:22

IXION: exzachary. I know what I'd rather come off at 50km/hr, and it would have a motor on it. At least then I'd have some decent armour on me, instead of cod-piece hugging lycra.

NordieBoy

28th February 2007, 21:24

Ouch. That happened to my brother when he was about 5ft behind me. Did she even care enough to check up on you after?

Yep, freaked her out a bit :D

forkoil

28th February 2007, 21:46

NO! as many posts have said, REGUARDLESS of what vehicle they are in cycle, car, bike its thier inconsiderateness(sp?)
One word you DID spell correctly

and lane splitting is LEGAL, its just an overtaking manouver. ALSO I like many other have ridden cycles and don't have ANY problems with cages cause we aren't dumb fucks that try to take up the whole road.
Getting hit by an opening car door could happen to anyone, m'bike or bicycle, to try to say different is plain stupidity.
Taking up more road than two abreast is only done at brief periods when racing, as I've explained at length on this thread earlier if you can be bothered to read, and the reasons and limitations surrounding that also. Its pointless trying to explain this to anyone who is so fixed in their prejudice they wont hear.
The constraints on bicycles are different than m'bikes which in turn are different than cars. Once again to deny this betrays ignorance ("ignore" ance). So why bicycles do different things in traffic or intersections does not translate to other vehicle types. Been thru this, but wasting breath for those who dont choose to hear.....

KLOWN

28th February 2007, 22:01

One word you DID spell correctly

Getting hit by an opening car door could happen to anyone, m'bike or bicycle, to try to say different is plain stupidity.
Taking up more road than two abreast is only done at brief periods when racing, as I've explained at length on this thread earlier if you can be bothered to read, and the reasons and limitations surrounding that also. Its pointless trying to explain this to anyone who is so fixed in their prejudice they wont hear.
The constraints on bicycles are different than m'bikes which in turn are different than cars. Once again to deny this betrays ignorance ("ignore" ance). So why bicycles do different things in traffic or intersections does not translate to other vehicle types. Been thru this, but wasting breath for those who dont choose to hear.....

All i hear is blah blah blah.
now a rebuttle

No one said getting hit by a car door only happens to cyclists, don't know where you got that idea from.
secondly your not wasting your breath, your typing
thirdly I have read all your posts, I just disagree
the MOST important thing is this ...

only cyclists that are racing go more than two abreast..... WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT !!!! have you been in my car/ on my bike EVERYTIME I have come across cyclists on the road riding more than two abreast?? Can you honestly tell me that EVERY cyclist that is riding two abreast, or more, is racing pfft.

This MAY be YOUR policy but the cyclists I meet aren't you (although they may have been) so you can't tell me/everybody who has posted that this is the case ALWAYS thats just shit.

Just because I don't agree with you dosen't mean im being ignoreant.

Wolf

28th February 2007, 22:31

Taking up more road than two abreast is only done at brief periods when racing,
So the bunch I encountered (without a pace car or adequate warnings) were "racing". Funnily enough, that is illegal on open roads - "I've explained at length on this thread earlier if you can be bothered to read" (as have others.)
So is crossing the centre line - and they were doing that, too.

I suppose you might claim the three dickheaded college kids weaving three-abreast the wrong way along a one-way street (in the path of a fucking-great Urban Assault Vehicle) were also "racing" - after all, that is the "only" time cyclists travel more than two-abreast.

To reiterate: I have, from time to time, encountered organised bicycle races with pace cars, marshalls and extra Pepperoni and have no problem with that - it's pretty hard to miss all the warnings. And every year, the road outside where we used to live was closed for a car rally - only on one year were some of them inconsiderate enough to block our driveway and a quiet word to the Marshalls sorted that out pretty quickly - again, not a problem. Every year, Paeroa closes off some of its streets for a day of motorcycle racing and the cagers don't seem to have much of a problem with it. Every year, the roads between Cambridge and Hamilton are blocked off for the Toy Run - and cagers actually wave out and cheer.

Legitimate, properly organised races or events are not the issue, here.

Cyclists illegally racing on open roads, however, will be regarded by me like any other illegal racers - be they on motorbikes or in cars, SUVs or trucks: with contempt for their arrogance and stupidity.

James Deuce

28th February 2007, 22:34

when lane splitting (which is against the law, technically).

No it isn't, as Klown said. Do a search and the legal method for lanesplitting will be revealed.

Also filtering to the front of a stationary queue at the lights is also completely legal. You are allowed to pass parked cars. That applies to cyclists too.

Ixion

28th February 2007, 22:37

Well, yes, both true. But the problem is that the legal method of lanesplitting, in real life, is very seldom entirely practical, and almost always slips over into the not-quite-legal method of lanesplitting. Unless you have much wider lanes down south.

(Caution. Children, do not try this at home. Lane splitting is dangerous, and of doubtful legality.Nana does not approve of it and does not do it, except for medical , or other, reasons.)

James Deuce

28th February 2007, 22:39

Yes, some cyclists may ride more than 2 abreast, but those that do are usually the same kinds of people who could don a 1-piece set of leathers and run every red-light at 100km/hr on their busa, just because they could. And while I agree that Darwin will even out the gene pool eventually, Road rage is only going to speed up the process.

It's a constant issue along SH2 in the Hutt, across tthe Akatarawas and the Paekak hill, and through the Mangaroa Plateau and Whiteman's Valley. Great hordes of cyclists, no warning, occupying an entire lane, or on the narrower roads the entire road. Someone will get killed. The powered vehicle driver will probably be prosecuted, irrespective of fault.

It is no fun to run into a Psychlopath of 30 or more on a blind corner, especially when they all seem to be a bunch of angry gesturers.

Wolf

28th February 2007, 22:40

No it isn't, as Klown said. Do a search and the legal method for lanesplitting will be revealed.

Also filtering to the front of a stationary queue at the lights is also completely legal. You are allowed to pass parked cars. That applies to cyclists too.
And I'll bet the legal method does not involve doing it at "warp speed", no matter what you're on.

James Deuce

28th February 2007, 22:45

Most of the other splitters down here always laugh at my efforts, because I try to stay in the correct lane, indicate during the process and never go more than 20 km/hr above the traffic flow, pulling back into a lane when the speed rises above 60 km/hr. I get overtaken by cyclists. I move out of the way of faster splitters.

I'm wussy! But I get to work 30 mins earlier than I would in a car, and 2 hours earlier than if I rode a pushy.

Ixion

28th February 2007, 22:48

Well, I am about your mark as far as speed goes - start sizing up the gap when things drop to 30kph, look for a gap to get back into lane when it gets above 50kph.

But i can seldom manage to keep to the left of the white lane. Dorkland drivers seem to insist on hugging the right hand side of their lanes - lots of room on the left, bugger all on the right. Very annoying. I wish someone would Have A Word with them

Wolf

28th February 2007, 22:50

Yes, some cyclists may ride more than 2 abreast, but those that do are usually the same kinds of people who could don a 1-piece set of leathers and run every red-light at 100km/hr on their busa, just because they could.
Yep - and I'd count them as fuckwits if I encountered them doing that, as well. I certainly wouldn't say "oh, but they're practising for the races and it's not practical for them to go to a training track all the time or get the road closed."
On a push bike or motor bike or in a car, SUV, van, bus or truck: if they are behaving like that, they're fuckwits.

James Deuce

28th February 2007, 22:58

But i can seldom manage to keep to the left of the white lane. Dorkland drivers seem to insist on hugging the right hand side of their lanes - lots of room on the left, bugger all on the right. Very annoying. I wish someone would Have A Word with them

It used to be like that down here, but it is definitely improving. Especially in lane 1, which means lane 1a has plenty of room. Someone may Have Had A Word with them.

forkoil

1st March 2007, 06:34

Yep - and I'd count them as fuckwits if I encountered them doing that, as well. I certainly wouldn't say "oh, but they're practising for the races and it's not practical for them to go to a training track all the time or get the road closed."
On a push bike or motor bike or in a car, SUV, van, bus or truck: if they are behaving like that, they're fuckwits.
Wolf, I've explained what cycle racing is about at a club level before, but I'll try again. Cycle clubs are everywhere in NZ and membership is increasing with more (middle aged mainly) riders appearing. They hold races during summer most weekends and in my ex-clubs case, this involves sending off groups of riders at timed intervals depending on ability. These groups number up to a dozen or so riders. These races are held with sanction from the local authorities on non closed public roads (note: with sanction from authorities). Except for bigger interclub or public open races, which have marshalls at critical intersections, road signs warning of the race etc, these weekend club races are on the same piece of road as I say every weekend (or so). Now the riders will stick to a pace line which is single file, dropping off the front to the back taking it in turns, until something like a hill comes up, then there will often be a "break" attempt during which all hell breaks loose, and riders will group up so as not to get "dropped" off the back. Then the group will settle back down. Now the photo at the start of this thread I would confidently say WERE racing. Lets not get into a well its OK then to break the law cos we're racing on our motorbikes, thats plainly ridiculous on a motorbike as you pose far far more of a hazard to yourself and to other road users racing on public roads on a motorbike than a bicycle, and if you dont accept there is a difference its pointless to discuss this further.

Anyway, of course I dont agree with casual cyclist bunching up more than 2 abreast and keeping to the left, but I do think there is a rightful place for weekend racing in cycling clubs on open public roads (it would be unacceptable to close these roads on such a regular basis).

James Deuce

1st March 2007, 06:58

Forkoil, we've tried to explain it to you too, but you're not listening.

There are many cycle clubs in Wellington too. The do NOT ride in single file on club rides on public rides. The only single file I ever see on a club ride is the newbies who were "dropped" at the start, strung out anything up to 5kms behind the main bunch. The main bunch is behaving like a seething mass of tape worms, writhing about as people jostle each other, usually 5 deep, and blocking at least half a lane.

You can continue to push your belief of how it SHOULD work. The only time it works like that in reality is when there is a small group of hardcore cyclists (usually no more than 4) and even then they will give you shit when you pull out in front of them at the lights at the bottom of the Haywards Hill (for instance) when you have the lights in your favour and they don't want their rhythm broken. I've seen two cyclists flattened when running red lights along Featherston St.

You can push the "It's alright for cyclists to flout the rules and behave like arseholes" all you want. I'll still laugh when they put themselves in a dumb position and get themselves hurt. I'll help them, but the Police aren't going to get anything but the truth from me for the accident report. I laugh in the face of the idiot in the Lance Armstrong costume who just spat at the drivers' door because I was using the road with the rules in my favour. What is it with that ego anyway? They're amateur cycle racers. They wouldn't see which way the peloton went if someone dropped them in a proper tour.

MSTRS

1st March 2007, 07:57

.... Its pointless trying to explain this to anyone who is so fixed in their prejudice they wont hear.
......

Hmmmm.....

Alice

1st March 2007, 08:48

any cyclist knows when racing at club level we do hog the road, the tactics involved in cycle racing mean you do not always stay rideing as some motorists would like, out of there way, the only time we are riding 2 across in a race is if the pace line is working properly and people are rotating, a lot of the time it isn't cause the wheel suckers won't take a there turn, on hills it always bunchs up as everyone trys to stay together or make a break and we're all ready to jump if someone trys to make a break. Single file only happens when its a crosswind and everyone is trying to get some shelter from the rider in front. Cycle racing is all tactics and saving energy where you can. The only solution to stop this problem would be ban cycle racing from public roads. I think that would be a shame, but it would honestly be the only way you will stop the problem completely. Its a shame a lot of cyclists out training are not more traffic concious, and its just plain stupid cause they will come of worse, self preservation should dictate their behaviour. A few people have stated that they have pedalled many kms and never had anything thrown at them, I read that to mean that if we have things thrown at us its cause we asked for it by our behaviour at the time. The times its happend to me I have been riding along in no ones way. There is a lot of predjudice towards cyclists. I think a lot of people do not like the way we look, tight lycra, well some of the guys must like the way it looks on me cause I have to put with with those remarks that I will leave to your imagination, but they do not like the guys with there shaved legs and tight shorts.

Cycling is an awesome sport, it feels really good to be super fit and it gets the endorphins and adrenalin going, couple of things I need anyway to keep me happy.

Its would be good to see more people commuting on cycles, saves yu fuel bills, its good for the enviroment, it means you arrive at work feeling good cause the endorphins have had there effect. Its good for your health both physical and mental. From what I have seem since I have been motorcyling a few motorcyclists could do with a few kms on a pedally, ...slight overweight issues, ...and cut the faggs, still we all choose how to live our lives so if they want to be overweight and cough there guts out, then go for it.

Wolf, you really have strong views and a lot of them are justified. But take note of all the cyclists that are not causing a problem and I think you will notice its a minority that do act as a hazard.

Cyclists have to have there wits about them, they are a lot of accidents involving cars that just do not see us. A guy was killed here a week or so back, run over from behind early in the morning, he had flashing lights on. A guy I work with was hit from behind a few years back, he had a near death experience and was floating looking down on his body then woke up in hospital. His training partner was not so lucky, she is in a wheelchair. I have been riding with a friend and seen him taken out by a car that just pulled straight out in front of him and had many close calls myself.

People go on about motorcycling being dangerous, I feel much safer on the VTR than any of my pedalys, my eyes never stop darting around for hazards and cars underestimate the speed we can travel at.

I feel its your pet hate, you want to know what my pet hates are ! probably not but anyway, its people that throw their rubbish on the ground and dogs shitting on the footpath.

jrandom

1st March 2007, 09:19

I don't have any pet hates.

I just wish everybody could love each other.

Come on, guys. Group hug.

I get to work 30 mins earlier than I would in a car, and 20 kilograms fatter than if I rode a pushy...

;)

James Deuce

1st March 2007, 09:58

I may be 20kgs fatter, but I'm a lot less dead than I'd be if I had to ride up Dowse Dr on a pushy every night.

KLOWN

1st March 2007, 10:00

Alice, that was an excellent post. The way forkoil was talking he was basically saying cyclist did no wrong and if they did it was ok cause they were "racing"
It always is the minority that causes the most problems and always the ones that cause problems are the ones remembered.

Wolf said previously if comes accross a polite cyclist who has moved over or even recognises(sp) he is there then he will let them know he appreciates it. Wolf seems to be a responsible motorist and you seems to be a responsible cyclist (and more than likely motorist) so good on ya both.

bling for a great post

Wolf

1st March 2007, 11:44

Wolf, you really have strong views and a lot of them are justified. But take note of all the cyclists that are not causing a problem and I think you will notice its a minority that do act as a hazard.
Reread my posts and you will see I have stated several times that I have no problem with cyclists - even groups of cyclists - who are behaving in a safe and courteous manner. It is only when they are behaving dangerously and arrogantly - as that bunch I referred to were - that I have any issues and I have stated often enough that I also have issues with people on motorbikes or in cars, vans, SUVs, trucks etc who behave dangerously and/or arrogantly.

Forkoil's constant assertion that those cyclists were most likely racing and therefore had every right to block the road and cross the centre line (break the law and behave arrogantly and dangerously) does not wash with me.

As I have said, I have often encountered groups of cyclists: usually not cycling more than 2-abreast and usually they switch to single file when a vehicle approaches from behind them.

The expectation I have, on encountering a bunch of cyclists up to 6-abreast in front of me, is that they will pull into single file and let other vehicles past (unless they are in a properly organised road race with pace cars, marshalls etc), not that they will continue to block the road and cross the centre line on practically every right-hand turn.

If it just the local club putting in regular practise-racing on an open public road then there is no reason why they should not observe basic safety and courtesy - it's only a practise after all, not an inter-club championship.

And I'm sure there are plenty of cycling clubs out there who practise racing on the open public roads who do ride safely and responsibly, who do pull over to let other traffic through - out of courtesy and safety considerations - who don't share forkoil's assertion that they have every right to endanger themselves and others and behave arrogantly.

I feel its your pet hate, you want to know what my pet hates are ! probably not but anyway, its people that throw their rubbish on the ground and dogs shitting on the footpath.
Dangerous behaviour on the roads is one of my pet hates, not cyclists (or cars or trucks or SUVs) in particular.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 11:55

Lets not get into a well its OK then to break the law cos we're racing on our motorbikes, thats plainly ridiculous on a motorbike as you pose far far more of a hazard to yourself and to other road users racing on public roads on a motorbike than a bicycle, and if you dont accept there is a difference its pointless to discuss this further.
Bullshit. A dog racing out across the road can cause a lethal accident if it causes a panicked reaction in the driver/rider of a vehicle. It can cause the death of any motorcyclist unlucky enough to hit it.

You don't have to be riding a few hundred kilos of motorbike (or driving a ton of car, 2.5 tons of SUV etc) to be a hazard on the road.

That dick who swerved in front of my motorbike on his pushbike could easily have killed us both if i hadn't been able to react in time.

Pedestrians stepping off the curb suddenly or running out into the road; push bikes swerving across your path, blocking your path or crossing the centre line; errant animals - all just as potentially deadly as anything else on the road.

If you cannot accept that, then yes, it is pointless discussing it.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 12:40

They hold races during summer most weekends and in my ex-clubs case, this involves sending off groups of riders at timed intervals depending on ability. These groups number up to a dozen or so riders. These races are held with sanction from the local authorities on non closed public roads (note: with sanction from authorities). Except for bigger interclub or public open races, which have marshalls at critical intersections, road signs warning of the race etc, these weekend club races are on the same piece of road as I say every weekend (or so).
It occurs to me:

If these "races" are a regular event on the same stretch of road, rather than just a bunch of dicks deciding to ride whatever road they desire, then how hard would it be for the club to put up a sign or two on these roads before they head out on their practise run saying "WARNING! Cyclists ahead"?

That way, other road users would know that they are there and at least be prepared to encounter them.

In any respect, being part of a club does not grant a licence to flagrantly break laws designed around safety and courtesy.

I refer back to my posts on the road code and the requirements of cyclists - that they are expected to keep as far to the left as practicable and obey the same road rules as any other road user. It further states that the expectation upon cyclists by other road users is that they will do so.

Ergo, clumping more than 2-abreast and crossing the centre line is illegal and the onus is on the cyclists who are doing it to stop doing so and give way to other traffic.

Likewise, when we as motorcyclists ride out in a group, the expectation of other road users is that we will obey the road rules and thus behave in a predictable and courteous fashion. They expect that we will maintain a safe following distance, travel within 10km/h of the legal speed limit, stay on our side of the centre line etc. When we stop doing that they get rightfully angry.

Occasionally, the rules get suspended - on closed or semi-closed roads under the watchful eyes of marshalls and police - but until that time we are bound by the laws of the land.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 13:07

Bullshit. A dog racing out across the road can cause a lethal accident if it causes a panicked reaction in the driver/rider of a vehicle. It can cause the death of any motorcyclist unlucky enough to hit it.

You don't have to be riding a few hundred kilos of motorbike (or driving a ton of car, 2.5 tons of SUV etc) to be a hazard on the road.

That dick who swerved in front of my motorbike on his pushbike could easily have killed us both if i hadn't been able to react in time.

Pedestrians stepping off the curb suddenly or running out into the road; push bikes swerving across your path, blocking your path or crossing the centre line; errant animals - all just as potentially deadly as anything else on the road.

If you cannot accept that, then yes, it is pointless discussing it.
Apparently, the above is proof that I am "irrational". Apparently "rational" behaviour is to break the law whilst racing pushbikes on the roads, so:

Of course, yes, I'm wrong, please forgive me, forkoil, and don't red bling me any more :cry: that lovely sane and intelligent cyclist who swerved in front of me was perfectly safe and my fears of doing the Death Stoppie From Hell with a cyclist and pushbike embedded in the front wheel are completely irrational. Every cyclist on the planet is superhumanly talented and the rules drafted for us mere mortals need not apply. (Hmmmm, no "Self-flagellation" smilie when ya need one...)

Yeah, whatever.

Ixion

1st March 2007, 13:20

For the avoidance of doubt, here is the law.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. Highlights are mine.

11.10Riding abreast

(1)A person must not ride a cycle or moped on a roadway so that it remains abreast and to the right of—

(a)2 other vehicles that are cycles or mopeds; or
(b)1 other cycle or moped while that cycle or moped is overtaking and passing another vehicle, including a parked vehicle; or
(c)any other vehicle having 3 or more road wheels (including a motorcycle fitted with a sidecar).

(2)Subclause (1) does not apply if cyclists are participating in a race that is subject to a traffic management plan agreed by the road controlling authority.

Clear enough. Unless there is a Traffic Management Plan, no more than 2 abreast or single file if passing parked cars. That's the law.

"I wanna race my mates every weekend" does not class as an exemption.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 13:28

For the avoidance of doubt, here is the law.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. Highlights are mine.

Clear enough. Unless there is a Traffic Management Plan, no more than 2 abreast or single file if passing parked cars. That's the law.

"I wanna race my mates every weekend" does not class as an exemption.
Oops, looks like you're being irrational too - watch out...

Remember, the road code is only a "blunt instrument" and does not apply to anyone who rides a safe unpowered vehicle.

forkoil

1st March 2007, 13:28

Apparently, the above is proof that I am "irrational". Apparently "rational" behaviour is to break the law whilst racing pushbikes on the roads, so:
No you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said. It is irrational to believe that bicycle racing on a public road is as dangerous as motorbike racing on a public road. Thats what I said and you replied "bullshit ...etc". Its that simple. Just calm down Wolf, get a life and stay on the meds.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 13:43

No you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said. It is irrational to believe that bicycle racing on a public road is as dangerous as motorbike racing on a public road. Thats what I said and you replied "bullshit ...etc". Its that simple. Just calm down Wolf, get a life and stay on the meds.
No I am saying nothing is "safe" and that if you think the behaviour we are complaining about is "safe" and "acceptable" then you need meds.

James Deuce

1st March 2007, 15:08

No you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said. It is irrational to believe that bicycle racing on a public road is as dangerous as motorbike racing on a public road. Thats what I said and you replied "bullshit ...etc". Its that simple. Just calm down Wolf, get a life and stay on the meds.

He's not misrepresenting it at all. I suggest you go back, read the post that was quoted, then re-write to reflect what you meant to say.

I certainly didn't get from the original post what you just said.

You effectively claimed that it was OK for cyclists to ignore any semblance of road rules, race or no race.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 15:22

You effectively claimed that it was OK for cyclists to ignore any semblance of road rules, race or no race.
That was my take on his post.

OK, who's up for a group ride, peeps? Hopefully 1 or 2 dozen of us, no more than 30km/h (scooter-friendly ride) out around the Hakarimata range. We'll practise bunching and see how many motorbikes we can fit abreast in the lane (tho' spilling over into the on-coming lane from time to time is acceptable). Rules: no following at more than half a second's interval, no fewer than three-abreast at any time, no faster than 30km/h, no pulling over for other traffic.

Should be a nice, safe ride, who's in?

Jantar

1st March 2007, 15:26

That was my take on his post.

OK, who's up for a group ride, peeps? Hopefully 1 or 2 dozen of us, no more than 30km/h (scooter-friendly ride) out around the Hakarimata range. We'll practise bunching and see how many motorbikes we can fit abreast in the lane (tho' spilling over into the on-coming lane from time to time is acceptable). Rules: no following at more than half a second's interval, no fewer than three-abreast at any time, no faster than 30km/h, no pulling over for other traffic.

Should be a nice, safe ride, who's in?
I'd be in for that but its a bit far to go just to prove a point. :scooter:

Wolf

1st March 2007, 15:50

I'd be in for that but its a bit far to go just to prove a point. :scooter:
Nah, the Hakarimatas are not that far away :D

'twere not a serious offer - I figured the patent stupidity of the suggestion might be sufficient to prove the point.

Well, it would do to anyone who doesn't believe some vehicles have privileged status...

Edit: OK, the Hakarimatas are a fair way from Alexandra...

MSTRS

1st March 2007, 16:01

I'd be in - except the GSXR won't go that slow....

MisterD

1st March 2007, 16:09

OK, who's up for a group ride, peeps? Hopefully 1 or 2 dozen of us, no more than 30km/h (scooter-friendly ride) out around the Hakarimata range. We'll practise bunching and see how many motorbikes we can fit abreast in the lane (tho' spilling over into the on-coming lane from time to time is acceptable). Rules: no following at more than half a second's interval, no fewer than three-abreast at any time, no faster than 30km/h, no pulling over for other traffic.

Should be a nice, safe ride, who's in?

Now you're being silly, Wolf. If you like I'll lend you a bike, and if you reckon you've got the lungs and legs for it you can come for a bunch ride and find out exactly how much awareness and communication is required.

The groups I ride with tend to stay bunched and wave motorised traffic past when the road allows, I personally think that's safer than trying to pull into single file and encourage idiots to squeeze through against oncoming vehicles. If a motorcyclist or cager begrudges 30 seconds out of their life then my response is going to be "Fuck you".

forkoil

1st March 2007, 16:33

Now you're being silly, Wolf. If you like I'll lend you a bike, and if you reckon you've got the lungs and legs for it you can come for a bunch ride and find out exactly how much awareness and communication is required.

The groups I ride with tend to stay bunched and wave motorised traffic past when the road allows, I personally think that's safer than trying to pull into single file and encourage idiots to squeeze through against oncoming vehicles. If a motorcyclist or cager begrudges 30 seconds out of their life then my response is going to be "Fuck you".
You are wasting your words MisterD, this thread is going round and round in circles. I've said many times here that bicycles / m'bikes / cars are all different and demand / enable different use and behaviour on the roads but these tossers just shout back and dont listen, and I guess that translates into their opinions and behaviour towards cyclists on the road. They wont listen, they have their opinion and thats that, end of story. Appealing to their rational mind is a lost cause.
Incidently, I've had heaps of green reps over this thread which indicates there are many who support sensible cycling behaviour and occasional multi abreast when racing but dont want to say so on the thread because they will get shouted down by this mob. Thanks for the nod, but I wouldnt persist here.

yungatart

1st March 2007, 16:45

I don't recall reading a single post on here that says sensible, reasonable, considerate, legal behaviour from cyclists causes a problem to other road users.
However there are many posts which decry the other sort of behaviour that some cyclists are prone to display i.e. illegal, inconsiderate, stupid and in some cases, downright dangerous behaviour.
Forkoil, you are the one with your knickers (or should that be chamois- lined lycras) in such a twist that you can't hear what others are saying.
Of course there are many people who support sensible cycling behavoiur, it is just a fact, a reality, that so much of what other road users see of cyclists behaviour is the exact opposite.... just like the picture in the first post.
It is that type of behaviour that causes the problem, it is that type of behaviour that started this thread and it is that type of behaviour that pisses people off...how is that so hard for you to understand??

KLOWN

1st March 2007, 18:01

exactly yungatart EVERYONE has said good on those cyclists that behave correctly the ONLY cyclist people are getting pissy about are the WANKERS that endanger themselves and other road uses by BREAKING the LAW. NOONE has a problem with sensible behaviour AND as has been repeated again and again this is not directed solely at cyclists but ANY road user in ANY vehicle powered by man or machine. how can you not get it?
The best post so far has been by alice who has given an unbiased post and is completly correct, while you forkoil have just been crapping on about how EVERY cyclist is perfect and in the right.

forkoil

1st March 2007, 18:52

exactly yungatart EVERYONE has said good on those cyclists that behave correctly the ONLY cyclist people are getting pissy about are the WANKERS that endanger themselves and other road uses by BREAKING the LAW.
Changed your mind Klown about Alice whose post you praised but who admitted dastardly acts like crossing a red light, bunch riding etc. She's now a wanker?
I've been very deliberately mild in my language in the face of some pretty heavy stuff from you and Wolf. I wont be tempted.

KLOWN

1st March 2007, 19:08

ok cool. can't be bothered anymore. But I like having the final word so i'm gonna say this.
I dont have a problem with cyclists going through reds never said I did. I also said I don't have a problem with cyclists bunching when i'm on my bike cause its easy to go round them, only when in a cage AND they don't bother making room I'm more than happy to wait i don't expect instintanious action but if they continue to make themselves a rolling road block I take excpetion. Also all my complaints invoved personal situations nothing i said was directed at you. There is no "heavy stuff" from me or wolf as far as I'm aware of, also I don't throw things at cyclist or buzz by them or any of the dangerous behaviour that cyclists don't like. The worst I do is beep at them when I have waited patiently and they still don't move i'm too laid back to get really worked up about anything. I'm sorry if i have offened you or you take my comments personally this is all "just" MY opinion. I completly disagree with you opinion because, wheather you ment it that way or not, it comes accross that cyclists can do anything they feel like just because they are racing or cause they are a different vehicle to motorbikes and cars. anyway you are right about one thing, this is going round and round in circles.
I praised alice's post because unlike you she says that cyclists DO do this behaviour when not racing which you seem to totally dissagree with.

I do like this debate though. nothing wrong with putting your opinion across :yes:

KLOWN

1st March 2007, 19:13

should've added before, I don't follow the law otherwise I wouldn't have lost my license but people who see me speeding etc I'm sure have much to say about me to other people. Everyone has something to say about other people reguardless of thier own actions. If the saying "Let those of you who haven't sinned cast the first stone" was ever followed then there wouldn't be many people posting on kiwibiker :yes: we are all guilty of something.:Punk:

Wolf

1st March 2007, 21:22

I've been very deliberately mild in my language in the face of some pretty heavy stuff from you and Wolf. I wont be tempted.
Sorry that you feel someone pointing out the law and consideration to others is "heavy"... or were you referring to the terms I use to describe those who flagrantly flout the law and show no consideration for other road users?

It has become a circular argument - our "the law is there for safety and consideration" vs your "we cyclists are a law unto ourselves". It may surprise you to realise I think you're just as blind, pig-headed and "incapable of listening" as you obviously think me to be.

The message I get from you, loud and clear (you've been doing a fair bit of "shouting down", yourself) is that any behaviour by a cyclist is justified, there are no people cycling irresponsibly anywhere in NZ, all bunches of cyclists anywhere and any time are clubs legitimately practising and that the law is a hinderance that you are permitted to ignore as you see fit.

Me: there was a bunch of cyclists blocking the lane.
You: they were a legitimate club and they were practising.
Me: That's mighty impressive. Can you also tell me what's on the other side of this locked door, O Great and Omniscient One?

You weren't there, yet the minute someone says "this is what I experienced" you leap in with "Oh, that's perfectly justifiable, this is what they were doing." Is it difficult for you - constantly knowing what every single cyclist in NZ (the World?) is doing at all times? Must be tiring.

Sorry that we "heavy" types are so down on having cyclists swerve out in front of us without looking, perhaps we should take all powered vehicles off the roads so that cyclists can swerve all over the show without worry. Sorry that, as the road code says, we assume you will obey the road rules. It must be so hard on you.

Never mind, I'll just go back to riding carefully so I don't clobber a lycra-clad idiot who thinks he can do as he pleases and you can go back to your fantasy-world where he's allowed to.

Wolf

1st March 2007, 21:24

how is that so hard for you to understand??
I suspect he truly believes that cyclists can do no wrong. The onus is upon everyone else to accommodate them.

jrandom

1st March 2007, 23:44

:corn:
<img src=""></img>

Wolf

2nd March 2007, 00:05

:corn:

:drinkup: :corn: :apint: <imgsrc=""></img>

justsomeguy

2nd March 2007, 00:10

Back in school when two people cared so deeply about what another specific person said or thought, regardless of reality - we'd tease them as having a crush on each other.:love:

So ladies, slappers, gentlemen, Dover and Boomer - allow me:mega:

Forkoil has a crush on Woooooooolllffffff :hug:

Wolf has a crush Fooooooooooooooooorkoil :woohoo:

Naaaaa naa -- na na naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :eek:

bikemike

2nd March 2007, 00:42

KLOWN said
I dont have a problem with cyclists going through reds never said I did. I also said I don't have a problem with cyclists bunching when i'm on my bike cause its easy to go round them, only when in a cage AND they don't bother making room I'm more than happy to wait i don't expect instantaneous action but if they continue to make themselves a rolling road block I take excpetion.

This expresses the nub of what you are ALL getting your kegs in a twist over; namely, that the problem comes down to one of courtesy, and not law. It's not really about the law as some of you are banging on about, all road users are breaking the law here and there, knowingly or not, flagrantly or not. Most motorcyclists speed for example(ooh really!), many many cyclists filter left on red or even go through when sensors not activated, and car drivers are parking on wrong side of road, on the pavement, and speeding.

Then there's dangerous and illegal stuff, scooter riders with cycle helmets, riding in cycle lanes, car drivers speeding up when being overtaken, motorcyclists pulling wheelies in traffic, cyclists riding with no lights.

All groups break some laws, so you can't base your umbrage on that, all groups do stupid stuff so your general offence can't be based on that either.

What we have here is a specific issue of courtesy, regardless of specific safety or legal issues. I personally think the bunching itself is not in principle an unsafe practice, though I'd need balls of steel to do it sometimes. However, on the other hand, I agree with MisterD:
I personally think that's safer than trying to pull into single file and encourage idiots to squeeze through against oncoming vehicles. If a motorcyclist or cager begrudges 30 seconds out of their life then my response is going to be "Fuck you".

You can't really legislate or account for courtesy. It's a sociocultural thing, and an education thing, and, it cuts both ways.

For example, keeping left means drive on the left. It means drive in the leftmost lane, and it means keep well out of the way of opposing traffic on unlaned roadways. It doesn't mean squeeze your ill-thinking arse into the gutter so the V8 can slice past you. It doesn't mean keep left in the lane so others can share your lane. However, sometimes it might be practical and courteous to do so, and some aspects of the code allow for that. It's the call of them in front to change their chosen course or position to comply with the code when it's safe.

Filtering/lane splitting on a motorcycle is one of the benefits and joys for many. Save's congestion and pollution, saves time and gives you clear road ahead. Sometimes it's not safe, and sometimes it's not legal. Hence the unending debates about whether it's safe, and if it's legal. Sometimes it's downright inconsiderate. The reason some do it and have no problems is that they do it safely and considerately. Likewise, most coppers use discretion on any law breaking in that situation based on safety and courtesy. Sure you get some that will say it's illegal, and pull you up in principle, even if you are within the law, being safe and being courteous. But the problem there is not one of legality or safety, it's again a courtesy thing - with the police failing in that case.

And another thing, no specific case proves a rule, or a point. Just because a cyclist could pull a manoeuvre that causes a 20 car pile up and multiple deaths doesn't mean that cycling or cyclists are as much a hazard on the road as motorcyclists, or cars. It's self evident that there is a hierarchy of personal risk and exposure versus a hierarchy of third party risk and exposure going the other way, from pedestrians up to the road trains. The bigger and badder the more training, regulation, licensing restrictions, safety interventions, taxation and so on. It's common sense.

Don't ask for cyclists to be licensed or wof'd, that's daft. As a human powered vehicle there IS a greater privilege there than there is for a bloody great logging truck. The truckie and company have to buy their way onto the network to mitigate the risk, costs and responsibilities they represent. So they should. We have a right to the road as pedestrians and cyclists before motorcyclists, cars, vans, buses and trucks.

As motorcyclists we should recognise that and give a little latitude, and have a little patience with those more exposed than ourselves. If it really is a safety issue, pull over, dial *555, otherwise accept the reality and stop banging on about absolutes, please.

Declaration. I'm a pedestrian, cyclists, motorcyclist and car driver. Jeesh, aren't we all.....:bye:

Kickaha

2nd March 2007, 05:30

The message I get from you, loud and clear (you've been doing a fair bit of "shouting down", yourself) is that any behaviour by a cyclist is justified, there are no people cycling irresponsibly anywhere in NZ, all bunches of cyclists anywhere and any time are clubs legitimately practising and that the law is a hinderance that you are permitted to ignore as you see fit.
.

pretty much the same arguement a lot of motorcyclists on her use to justify their behaviour

James Deuce

2nd March 2007, 05:46

pretty much the same arguement a lot of motorcyclists on her use to justify their behaviour

Yeah, but Wolf isn't one of them, so I reckon he is one of the few that can put his hand up and make this argument stick.

MSTRS

2nd March 2007, 08:08

... those more exposed than ourselves.....

Great post.
But I subscribe to the view that the greater the personal exposure (to physical harm, say) then the greater the onus on ensuring that behaviour is not contributing to that risk. And when (anyone) is being a little/lot naughty, then the onus should be on them to ensure that it is not the less vulnerable's responsibilty to do the 'right' thing

Wolf

2nd March 2007, 08:49

pretty much the same arguement a lot of motorcyclists on her use to justify their behaviour
Yep, and I've stated my opinion on such motorcyclists as well as their counterparts in cars, vans, SUVs, buses, trucks etc.

The words "Fucking temporary New Zealander" have been know to pass my lips. Unlike some people, however, I use the words about specific bikers not about every motorcyclist I see. The term has also been used to described specific other road users and pedestrians.

No, I'm not a perfect rider and I do make screw-ups from time time time when my head's up in the clouds (well, up somewhere, anyway) that occasionally earn me a blast of a horn or yelled abuse which I consider a "back to reality" call. Such is life, we none of us are perfect.

These days I strive to be a careful and considerate rider for reasons of my own safety (can't support wife and kids if permanently crippled or dead) and out of consideration for others on the road.

In my younger days my mates and I used to act up on the motorbikes "because we could" but we were under no illusion that we were entitled to do so - we knew we were doing wrong and that there would be a variety of richly deserved consequences if something went sour: the very least of which was other people would rightfully think we were a pack of fucking wankers.

These days I try to be a good ambassador of our lifestyle/sport so that people will see me and say "OK, not all motorcyclists are arrogant temporary New Zealanders" but in my earlier days I had no call to get upset with people that said "motorcyclists are fucking dangerous" and no reason to justify our stupidity as "our right".

Wolf

2nd March 2007, 09:37

Great post.
But I subscribe to the view that the greater the personal exposure (to physical harm, say) then the greater the onus on ensuring that behaviour is not contributing to that risk. And when (anyone) is being a little/lot naughty, then the onus should be on them to ensure that it is not the less vulnerable's responsibilty to do the 'right' thing
It was a great post, but I concur - the onus is upon the vulnerable (myself as a motorcyclist included) is to take due care. These days I ride mindful that I am vulnerable and take care to ride carefully.

It wasn't always so: Looking back over the years I see I've progressed from having lots of accidents (admittedly only a couple involved other vehicles) through extolling the virtues of motorcycles and their ability to avoid accidents (by going places you can't take a car) to seldom being in a position where i have to avoid accidents by virtue of riding to the conditions and being mindful of hazards.

Or in other words: from "Oh fuck! That hurts" through "whew, that was fucking close; good thing I could get my bike through that tiny gap" to "that could have been nasty; I knew that bastard was going to do that."
I don't trust that the other road users have the skills to avoid me if I do something careless or stupid - they may still be in the "Oh fuck" stage of their driving/riding life. I don't trust other road users to be predictable in their actions (which is why I seldom lane-split and am extremely cautious on the rare occasions I am able to legally do so (very rare - Hamilton traffic seems to love hugging (if not straddling) the centre line).

My "Driving Tales 1" page off my home page has anecdotes of some of the stupid things I've done in the past and recounts some of the close calls if anyone is interested in reading. You will note, however, that I'm honest about how stupid my actions were.

I probably survived to the age of thirty more by good luck than good management but these days I don't have as much trust in luck and take a more "managed" approach. These days I seldom get beeped, yelled or gestured at and I haven't had even a close call in ages (not counting dropping the bike onto myself whilst wheeling it backwards) - I like it that way: less stress, less grey hairs and I live to enjoy my family and my riding.

justsomeguy

5th March 2007, 09:09

Cyclist killed in Taupo crash

By LEIGH VAN DER STOEP - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 4 March 2007

A week-long campaign encouraging more New Zealanders to ride bikes ended with two cyclists being killed and another in hospital.

A holidaying husband and wife were yesterday knocked off their mountain bikes by a bakery delivery van while cycling along Spa Rd, Taupo.
Hilary Evelyn Haward, 57, died at the scene. Her husband Brinley Haward, 58, was taken to Taupo Hospital with moderate injuries, then transferred to Rotorua Hospital.
Police said the Havelock North couple - camping in Taupo - were watching the start of the Ironman competition, a popular annual triathlon event. They were cycling back to their campground when they were hit.
On Friday afternoon, a 74-year-old Matamata man was killed when a 4WD struck him while he cycled his usual SH27 route. A Westpac Rescue Helicopter airlifted him to Waikato Hospital and he died in the emergency department.
Cycling Advocates' Network chairman Robert Ibell said the deaths were a "sad irony" as National Bikewise Week ends today. The Taupo crash was particularly poignant as last week's Bike Taupo campaign focused on safety for cyclists.
Police continued to investigate both crashes yesterday. It was not known whether charges would be laid.
Taupo police were interviewing the driver of the Fresh Bake van which struck the married couple from behind.
Senior Sergeant Murray Hamilton said it was unclear what had caused the accident - "It's a good section of road."
The Hawards both had helmets on and were riding in single file, he said. Ibell said this "unfortunate weekend for cyclists" served as a reminder to drivers to be more aware of cyclists.
"They should remember that some vehicles can be smaller than cars."
Fresh Bake owner Simon Joyner said the driver was shaken but not injured.
The accident did not affect the Ironman event, a spokesperson said.
Matamata police said initial reports the 74-year-old's death was due to a hit-and-run were incorrect. The accident happened near Blandford Lodge, a well-known equine farm belonging to supermodel Kylie Bax's family.
Farm manager Casey Dando said six locals gathered around the man as he lay injured in the road. A crew of Works Infrastructure road staff saw the accident and secured the section of road using cones and stop-go signs.

Max Preload

5th March 2007, 23:00

the tactics involved in cycle racing mean you do not always stay rideing as some motorists would like, out of there way
It's not the way we'd like. It's the rules of the road. Keep the fuck left and have some consideration for motorists.

The only solution to stop this problem would be ban cycle racing from public roads.
Unless they're preceeded by cars bearing waarnings, it sounds like a plan to me.

There is a lot of predjudice towards cyclists.
Brought on by their own arrogance.

Cycling is an awesome sport
No, it's not. It's mind numbingly dull and generally the domain of braindead retards (every sport bicyclist I've ever met has been pretty dopey). Besides, it is demeaning for anyone over the age of 15 to ride a bicycle - they could be operating a motor vehicle.

Wolf

6th March 2007, 11:23

:drinkup: :corn: :apint: <imgsrc=""></img>

marty

6th March 2007, 11:54

i have read and followed this with some interets, being both a motorcyclist, and a competitive cyclist. i have now come to the conclusion that the non-cycling motorcylcists on this thread are a bunch of fucking arrogant cunts, and if i was ever subjected to the type of behaviours being promoted by some of the motorcylists in here, for no other reason than what seems to be an almighty-than-thou fucktard attitude that cannot be delayed for 7 fucking seconds, that when i saw your bike parked at the pub, you better fucking make sure you know how to pick it up off the ground.

what REALLY fucks me off, is that a 3m wide tractor at 40km/h blocking the road for miles, doesn't engender the same aggression as a couple of cyclists. i know why though, cause you're fucking scared of it, and you know that YOU'LL get hurt if you fuck with it, so you whimper away.

James Deuce

6th March 2007, 12:37

jeepers Marty say what you really think!

Jantar

6th March 2007, 14:15

Calm down Marty, and re-read what has been said. I think you'll find that the majority of cycle riders on here are also pissed off at the arrogance of the competitive cyclists. Its the old chestnut: The actions of a few give a bad name to the many.

avgas

6th March 2007, 14:28

roadies suck.
tight pants suck.
MTB:Punk: or buy a mac and drink starbucks

MSTRS

6th March 2007, 14:58

FFS you nay-sayers....Most here don't put down cyclists and their chosen sport (I suspect I know why the one or two do, however). For the most part there is no problem out there on our roads, rather, it's only a few who seem to think the rules don't apply to them, or those racers on OPEN roads who do the sort of shit that irks motored travellers.

yungatart

6th March 2007, 16:24

Settle down guys, why let pure emotion get in the way of a good intellectual discussion - oops, i forgot, this is KB - it always turns to name calling, off topic crap eventually

Ixion

6th March 2007, 16:32

Enough already with the personal insult stuff. The infractionator is warming up. OK ?

KLOWN

6th March 2007, 16:33

marty

6th March 2007, 16:43

i'm calm. i'm a sea of fucking tranquility.

KLOWN

6th March 2007, 17:00

i'm calm. i'm a sea of fucking tranquility.

you on the moon?

Wolf

6th March 2007, 17:06

what REALLY fucks me off, is that a 3m wide tractor at 40km/h blocking the road for miles, doesn't engender the same aggression as a couple of cyclists. i know why though, cause you're fucking scared of it, and you know that YOU'LL get hurt if you fuck with it, so you whimper away.
Actually, most of the tractors I've encountered take pains to move out of the way of other traffic when it is practicable to do so (when there is a place to move a 3m-wide tractor into, safely). Last one we encountered was in the middle of the night and we couldn't tell what it was from behind at first - just a weird shape and an unusual pattern of lights. The moment the driver was able to lcate a safe place to pull over, he did and we went past. No doubt he'd waited until the middle of the night before moving this behemoth so as to inconvenience as few people as possible. Hadn't counted on our propensity for travelling at ungodly hours, though...

Max Preload

6th March 2007, 17:12

If a motorcyclist or cager begrudges 30 seconds out of their life then my response is going to be "Fuck you".

That's exactly the attitude we're taking about - you think you have some god given right to block the road until you feel it's safe for other people. No wonder you cunts get run over - you fucking deserve it.

KLOWN

6th March 2007, 17:28

That's exactly the attitude we're taking about - you think you have some god given right to block the road until you feel it's safe for other people. No wonder you cunts get run over - you fucking deserve it.

the only people who deserve to be run over is animal abusers, kiddy fiddlers (pedophiles, not kids who play fiddles) and convicted murders.

MSTRS

6th March 2007, 17:36

...and greenies and labourites...

Pixie

6th March 2007, 23:50

So are there any riders on this forum old enough to remember this situation? Its certainly long before I started riding. I had to do a written, oral and practical for both my motorcycle and heavy traffic licences.
You're lucky you didn't have do an oral in Rotorua in the early eighties

Pixie

7th March 2007, 00:31

you on the moon?

No ,silly,the sea of tranquility is on the moon.
The sea of fucking tranquility is obviously on venus

Wolf

7th March 2007, 11:49

No ,silly,the sea of tranquility is on the moon.
The sea of fucking tranquility is obviously on venus
Yeah, those love goddesses do have a certain reputation...

Squeak the Rat

7th March 2007, 12:35

Competitive riding will not be able to happen if this behaviour is eliminated. Not all clubs have the time and resource to organise proper racing controls, and cyclists also need to practice their sport.

So, get rid of this behaviour if you like, but also get rid of people like Sarah Ulmer competing at an international level because most people like her would have started out in a cycling club doing just this. Can't have it both ways.

Actually, most of the tractors I've encountered take pains to move out of the way of other traffic when it is practicable to do so (when there is a place to move a 3m-wide tractor into, safely).

If we can cope with tractors blocking the road then we can cope with bikers, ie. it's not a safety issue (remember it's the law that you have to be able to stop within the visible road ahead), so what's every ones beef again?

a) you get inconvenienced. Well you have a right to get annoyed, but you have a choice to not let it bother you.

b) Some one is flouting a "rule". Fair enough, but I'd have thought most bikers would be more inclined to be anti-authoritarian. Take a photo and post it on snapt.

Wolf

7th March 2007, 16:47

Competitive riding will not be able to happen if this behaviour is eliminated.
Shit, makes you wonder how any of our other sports survive and how we produce world-class sportspeople in lots of disciplines that are forbidden to race/practise on the roads.

Apparently, it being illegal to digitally sample other musicians' copyrighted music and use it as your own backing track makes it "impossible" for rap perpetrators to perform their "art", as well...

Not all clubs have the time and resource to organise proper racing controls, and cyclists also need to practice their sport.
So do racing motorcyclists, race car drivers and pistol and rifle shooters - and it's not acceptable for any of them to practise on our road ways. The responsible ones find appropriate places to practise where they won't endanger themselves or other members of the public. As do responsible cyclists, I suspect. It's just the disorganised wannabes who don't feel there's a need for proper safety or consideration for others.

If a club lacks the time, organisational skills and resources to attend to appropriate safety matters then the club's organisers are retarded and have no right to be organising anything - quaint expressions concerning inability to organise a piss-up in a brewery, or a fuck in a brothel, spring to mind.

The message I am getting is that all you need for a "race cycling club" is a pack of wannabes with pushbikes and no knowledge of road safety "led" by someone with no organisational skills.

It does not take a fantastic budget to paint "Warning, cyclists ahead" on a couple of slabs of ply, nor a lot of organisational skills park them at strategic points along the "regular route", so that if some learner driver encounters them he doesn't freak out and cause an accident and more experienced drivers/riders don't feel like this is just some random pack of wankers who're behaving like arrogant cocks.

What I'm understanding from the posts of a lot of the cyclists is: "We expect you to show us consideration for what we're doing and be responsible, safe road users when you encounter us riding in an unsafe fashion and not showing consideration for you - and if you can't deal with that, fuck you!"

But yeah, fine. Cyclists: by all means ride push bikes on the road in a manner which expects all other road users but yourselves to be responsible for your safety and trust that all other road users have the requisite skill levels to respond appropriately without panicking. Behave as unpredictably as you like and trust that the other road users will have read your minds and will do the right thing.

Personally, I'll stick with conducting myself on the road as if everyone I encounter is a brain-dead lunatic, whether I'm walking, riding a push bike or a motorcycle or driving a car.

Pixie

7th March 2007, 23:16

:Offtopic: Perhaps the cyclists here can help me with a question that has been nagging at me for years:Is cyclosporan an item of clothing worn by a Scotsman cyclist,and what is it's connection with treatment of organ transplants?

Lou Girardin

8th March 2007, 06:01

4 dead during "Bikewise week".
It strikes me that it'd be wise to stay the hell away from psycles.

marty

8th March 2007, 06:52

from all acounts, NONE of them were breaking the law when they were killed, so i guess that proves the point.

Squeak the Rat

8th March 2007, 07:31

Shit, makes you wonder how any of our other sports survive and how we produce world-class sportspeople in lots of disciplines that are forbidden to race/practise on the roads.
...snip...
So do racing motorcyclists, race car drivers and pistol and rifle shooters - and it's not acceptable for any of them to practise on our road ways. The responsible ones find appropriate places to practise where they won't endanger themselves or other members of the public. As do responsible cyclists, I suspect. It's just the disorganised wannabes who don't feel there's a need for proper safety or consideration for others.
.
That argument doesn't really stack up. No other sport races solely on public roads at an international level.

Sport & Where they race
Motorsport = Track (mainly)
Rowing = Rivers
Swimming = Pools, sea
Shooting = Range
Running = Footpath
Rugby = Field
Roiad Cycling = Road

Road cycling is one of the only sports that you need to practice with other people. And it's not feasible to train on a track because there are no hills. And no, it's simply not feasible for the Otorahanga road cycling club to put on marshalled training rides 3 times per week, or put out signs over a 120km course.

PS - I'm not a road cyclist. God forbid, maybe I'm tolerant. But kiwi's attitudes to the every day cyclist is dangerous, as shown by the 4 dead last week.

NordieBoy

8th March 2007, 08:09

That argument doesn't really stack up. No other sport races solely on public roads at an international level.

Sport & Where they race
Motorsport = Track (mainly)
Rowing = Rivers
Swimming = Pools, sea
Shooting = Range
Running = Footpath
Rugby = Field
Cycling = Road

Cycling is one of the only sports that you need to practice with other people. And it's not feasible to train on a track because there are no hills. And no, it's simply not feasible for the Otorahanga cycling club to put on marshalled training rides 3 times per week, or put out signs over a 120km course.

PS - I'm not a cyclist. God forbid, maybe I'm tolerant. But kiwi's attitudes to the every day cyclist is dangerous, as shown by the 4 dead last week.

Ummm...
NO.

Road cycling rides on the road.
Track cycling rides on the track.
BMX rides on track.
MB rides on dirt.
Freestyle BMX rides on anything they can get their grubby hands on.

PS - 1 triathlon bike, 2 road bikes, 3 mountain bikes. I'm tolerant but not of idiots or people flagrantly breaking the law and putting others (and themselves) in danger.

Squeak the Rat

8th March 2007, 08:15

Ummm...
NO.

Road cycling rides on the road.
Track cycling rides on the track.
BMX rides on track.
MB rides on dirt.
Freestyle BMX rides on anything they can get their grubby hands on.

That's just being pedantic. I will go back and put the word road in front of any mention of cyclist in my previous post (i thought people reading this thread would understand the context).

Wolf

8th March 2007, 12:21

That argument doesn't really stack up. No other sport races solely on public roads at an international level.
Isle of Man Tourist Trophy.

'nuff said.

Kickaha

8th March 2007, 12:53

Isle of Man Tourist Trophy.

'nuff said.

Once a year event closed road event, it's not a valid comparison

Squeak the Rat

8th March 2007, 12:54

That argument doesn't really stack up. No other sport races solely on public roads at an international level.
Isle of Man Tourist Trophy.

'nuff said.

Yep, says it all really.

Track and road motor-racing are effectively the same sports. Most TT racers practice and race regularly on race-tracks. The skills are transferable between the two. You can train on a track and race the TT.

You can not train to be a road racing cyclist just by riding on a cycling track.

KLOWN

8th March 2007, 12:56

rally driving is done mainly on raods, only on track with a special stage.

Squeak the Rat

8th March 2007, 13:02

rally driving is done mainly on raods only on track with a special stage.

Bastard! (Where do these guys practice?)

Still though, road cyclists need to practice riding with other riders in bunches, up and down hills etc etc. My point being I can't see anywhere else for them to do this.

Jantar

8th March 2007, 13:02

That argument doesn't really stack up. No other sport races solely on public roads at an international level.

Except for every marathon race, Every fun run, International car rallys etc, etc.

KLOWN

8th March 2007, 13:03

from all acounts, NONE of them were breaking the law when they were killed, so i guess that proves the point.

what point does it prove? one was a delivery driver who was, possibly tired, i don't know the circumstances on the others but were any road rage?? I think we ALL know the inabillty of drivers as we, motorcyclists, almost get hit on a daily basis. The fact that these people were killed has nothing to do with this thread and the way SOME cyclists behave. I believe the cyclists who were killed were all staying left and behaving responsibilly, good on them, not good that these stupid fuckers can't drive but if ANY point is proved it is if your in the middle of the road when you encounter these shit drivers your definatley going to be killed and you have a chance to be avoided if you stay left, which isn't the case about the people killed, R.I.P .
On a side note I hope the fuckers driving get thier balls nailed to the wall.

Jantar

8th March 2007, 13:05

Bastard! (Where do these guys practice?)

Still though, road cyclists need to practice riding with other riders in bunches, up and down hills etc etc. My point being I can't see anywhere else for them to do this.
That part is fine, just put a traffic management plan in place, or have courtesy for other road users when practicing. :yes:

KLOWN

8th March 2007, 13:05

Bastard! (Where do these guys practice?)

Still though, road cyclists need to practice riding with other riders in bunches, up and down hills etc etc. My point being I can't see anywhere else for them to do this.

I don't know about OTHER peoples point of view but heres mine in plain english. I dont mind if cyclists ride in bunches as long as when I come up behind them they make room for me in a timely manner. as wolf stated though how hard is it to paint a peice of wood with !warning cyclists ahead! and just have a few spaced out along your route.

James Deuce

8th March 2007, 13:08

You guys have strayed so far off the point it isn't funny.

It isn't acceptable to be met head on by 30 cyclists on the open road on the wrong side of the road coming around a blind corner toward you.

It isn't acceptable to be held up at an intersection for more than 5 minutes while people refill water bottles and chat about the route after having blocked all access to the intersection and the road ahead.

It isn't acceptable to then be threatened by the pinheads in the all over pantyhose with the giant thighs and girly arms and the clip clop shoes when you get out and ask if it would be alright to get through please.

It isn't acceptable to have to pull off miracle avoidance techniques when proceeding lawfully through an intersection only to be blindsided by a lycra mince bag running a red light at speed.

None of the above is an infrequent occurrence any more. I have to put myself at risk to avoid injuring a cyclist.

It is a cyclists responsibility to use the road safely. Threatening other road users, riding on the wrong side of the road consistently, and ignoring traffic signals would get any other road user a trip to court.

On the open road I always treat cyclists like another road user and indicate when overtaking, taking to the other side of the road where possible. I will wave them through an intersection so they can avoid having to stop.

But I will not tolerate blatantly unsafe or threatening behaviour, particularly after reading some of the attitudes displayed openly in this thread.

Squeak, none of the stuff you say about road racing excuses blatant disregard for other road users including unsafe and aggressive behaviour. I've had a million near misses on the bike but I don't take it out on any and all other road users as a matter of course.

I'd like to see NZ riders do a lot better at the road racing discipline but they need to organise themselves better, co-ordinate with local councils better, plan ahead better, and be the better "man" when confronted.

Just. Like. We. Have. To.

Squeak the Rat

8th March 2007, 13:38

Jim2, I completely agree with all the points you are making about cyclists behaviour on the wrong side of the road or blocking intersections yakking etc. Don't worry, I've had encounters with some cyclists who are so far up themselves that it's not funny.

Maybe i didn't read the entire 15 pages :innocent:, but the original point i was arguing was:

Mods - by all means merge this with an old thread that I remember (but can't find)...
This photo in last night's paper illustrates perfectly one of the biggest bitches we have with these pricks (prickesses, in this case). Not a single mention in the article of the 2 abreast rule. Note the centre line. And as far as keeping as far to the left as practicable....
Pity they weren't being tested on their ability to obey the road rules - eh,failed!

Putting out signs over a 120km route is not practical for a training ride.

imdying

8th March 2007, 14:08

Cyclists have as much right to use the road as us (well, not really, they don't pay rego/petrol and thus no road tax, but you get the idea). 99% never give any trouble... in fact, I find them incredibly courteous given that I split in their bicycle lanes every day.

I don't treat them any different from motorcyclists now. If I'm in my car going through a twisty piece of hills (especially if I'm not familiar with it), then I'll run over either of them if they're in my lane. I am not going over a large cliff for any homo, cycler/motorcyslist/whatever.

I don't agree with a friend of mine the other night. There were a couple heading up a twisty hill... only two of them, but were being cocks about road courtesy. His kwaka is bloody loud on full chat, as they now know... Not very nice, even if they did borderline deserve it.

James Deuce

8th March 2007, 14:11

Putting out signs over a 120km route is not practical for a training ride.

If there's only 4 of them, then no, but 30? 40? 50? Those sorts of numbers can cause significant issues for other road users. There needs to be some sort of warning system used by the cyclists to minimise the hold ups, and no, you aren't help up for 7 seconds as someone has intimated.

yungatart

8th March 2007, 15:07

jrandom

8th March 2007, 15:55

Cycle trainer machines....they come with the ability to programme in hills etc

You've never actually ridden up a mountain on a bicycle, have you?

It's just not the same.

Mr Skid

8th March 2007, 16:16

It's just not the same.You'd like a wind trainer where virtual cyclists offer a cheery greeting while they drop you on the 'hills'?
Or perhaps one with an inbuilt bread roll dispenser?

jrandom

8th March 2007, 16:46

You'd like a wind trainer where virtual cyclists offer a cheery greeting while they drop you on the 'hills'?

You're fucking well going down, cripple boy. Get bloody fixed up already so that I can force-feed you some of my 'tasty humble pie'.

Ixion

8th March 2007, 17:07

Bastard! (Where do these guys practice?)

Still though, road cyclists need to practice riding with other riders in bunches, up and down hills etc etc. My point being I can't see anywhere else for them to do this.

Hm. So , as I understand it, the psyclists are saying that they need to train for their racing. And that justifies them using the road in a dangerous, discourteous and inconsiderate fashion. And that this is acceptable because they have no other choice.

Well, if them training for their road races means they must endanger me, then I have another solution for them. Ban cycle road races. No races , no need for training. Problem solved.

Can anyone give me a reaosn why cycle road races should NOT be banned. Since they are manifestly a public danger?

justsomeguy

8th March 2007, 17:39

Can anyone give me a reaosn why cycle road races should NOT be banned. Since they are manifestly a public danger?

Hmm, so are "some" bike rides or car club drives .... and these guys and the odd girl have no races to train for.

Don't get your point, sorry......

Ixion

8th March 2007, 18:20

Hmm, so are "some" bike rides or car club drives .... and these guys and the odd girl have no races to train for.

Don't get your point, sorry......

The point being that the people on the bike rides (or car club drives) don't claim that dangerous/illegal/inconsiderate behaviour is justified by the "need' to train for racing.

Wolf

8th March 2007, 18:32

As has been stated ad nauseum in this thread, no on has a problem with cyclists who're behaving courteously and obeying the road rules, being mindful of other traffic.

With respect to cyclists practising the racing techniques on open roads, I have no problem so long as they are mindful that it is an open road and they are not riding under controlled conditions - to whit: they show due care and consideration for other road users.

They are not actually in a real race, they are only practising and said practise should not endanger them or others. In a real race, the road will either be closed or heavily marshalled; in a practise session, the road is likely to have a lot of far faster traffic on it.

My scene is motorcycle touring and I put in a lot of hours on the winding roads around the "local" area keeping myself toned and honed for the long haul, even though I'm not actually straying far from home (usually no further than Mercer, Otorohanga etc). During this time I ride with the knowledge that other road users are about and I must take care not to endanger myself or them.

As a motorcyclist, I am quite vulnerable and the onus is on me to behave accordingly (I've seen far too many idiots in larger, faster vehicles to trust them to do "the Right Thing(TM)"). I'm not as vulnerable as someone on a push bike, granted, but that only serves to demonstrate that they should take extra care. I am the one responsible for my safety on the road, I am the one who needs to ensure I ride as safely and predictably as possible to avoid getting myself in a position where I have to rely on some retarded cager's reflexes.

I certainly would not behave in a dangerous or arrogant fashion and expect others to courteously respect me.

MSTRS

8th March 2007, 18:39

I certainly would not behave in a dangerous or arrogant fashion and expect others to courteously respect me.

That's the nub of it, right there.

Wolf

8th March 2007, 19:22

The point being that the people on the bike rides (or car club drives) don't claim that dangerous/illegal/inconsiderate behaviour is justified by the "need' to train for racing.
In fact, large groups of motorbikes ride together quite regularly and have no problems riding at a legal pace in proper staggered formation, staying on their side of the road and behaving pretty much as the other road users expect them to.

It might surprise some people on this thread, but actually obeying the road rules is advantageous - gets rid of the "he scared the shit out of me and I panicked" factor.

I've been on quite a number of group rides over the years and we haven't had accidents, fatalities or abusive car drivers - we've had a great time. Last group ride was at night and in the rain and there were no issues with other traffic.

I've seen some individual motorcyclists and groups of motorcyclists behave arrogantly and/or dangerously but I don't think it is justifiable.

I don't think the arrogant and dangerous behaviour I've seen from some cagers and some truckies is justifiable, either.

yungatart

8th March 2007, 19:49

You've never actually ridden up a mountain on a bicycle, have you?

It's just not the same.

Actually, I have!
Who the hell are you to presume you know about me and what I've done?
You've never even met me!
Go back to your bowl, swimming in mindless circles, Fish!

KLOWN

9th March 2007, 11:30

anyone watch SCU last night? A cyclist was killed by a car. He was going along upper habour highway (i think) cyclist was well left, in the shoulder infact, and subaru car driver cut left hand bend and hit and killed cyclist. He was completly at fault (car driver) and his punishment was $1000 reperation 200 hours community service and 6months disqualification. This is absolute bollocks, I got worse punishment for driving while disquailified and this guy killed someone. what a stupid stupid law system we have. I think it should be at least 5 years of disqualification it you are completly at fault. what a joke.

forkoil

9th March 2007, 11:38

Actually, I have!
Who the hell are you to presume you know about me and what I've done?
You've never even met me!
Go back to your bowl, swimming in mindless circles, Fish!
My guess he assumed from some of the 'stuff' you were writing here :yawn:

forkoil

9th March 2007, 11:53

In fact, large groups of motorbikes ride together quite regularly and have no problems riding at a legal pace in proper staggered formation, staying on their side of the road and behaving pretty much as the other road users expect them to.

It might surprise some people on this thread, but actually obeying the road rules is advantageous - gets rid of the "he scared the shit out of me and I panicked" factor.

I've been on quite a number of group rides over the years and we haven't had accidents, fatalities or abusive car drivers - we've had a great time. Last group ride was at night and in the rain and there were no issues with other traffic.

I've seen some individual motorcyclists and groups of motorcyclists behave arrogantly and/or dangerously but I don't think it is justifiable.

I don't think the arrogant and dangerous behaviour I've seen from some cagers and some truckies is justifiable, either.

As usual Wolf (nothings changed), you are equating oranges with pears (you're the pear). SOME groups of cyclists are riding in a group (bunch) not because they are just having jolly good fun out on a Sun afternoon ride, but because they are training. That means learning to ride safely in a bunch, on the 'wheel' of the bike in front, to reduce drag, and to be ready both to take their place at the front (where all the hard work is done pushing the wind), and to be ready if someone tries a break. This is necessary training for a competitive cyclist. Thats not to say ALL bunches of cyclists are well behaved, just as any other group of road users are. But you and others of your ilk brand and demonise all cyclists and generalise, which really starts to piss some people in here off, those who actually cycle and ride m'bikes. You persist in your childish and pedantic 'one size fits all' rants that just show up your shortcomings. For the good of us all, please expand that mind of yours past the 'Thats the law and if you dont follow the law to the letter your a waste of space wanker' and the 'all vehicles on the road are the same, behave the same, and their drivers should all act the same' bullshit....

MSTRS

9th March 2007, 12:57

As usual Wolf (nothings changed), you are equating oranges with pears (you're the pear). SOME groups of cyclists are riding in a group (bunch) not because they are just having jolly good fun out on a Sun afternoon ride, but because they are training. That means learning to ride safely in a bunch, on the 'wheel' of the bike in front, to reduce drag, and to be ready both to take their place at the front (where all the hard work is done pushing the wind), and to be ready if someone tries a break. This is necessary training for a competitive cyclist. Thats not to say ALL bunches of cyclists are well behaved, just as any other group of road users are. But you and others of your ilk brand and demonise all cyclists and generalise, which really starts to piss some people in here off, those who actually cycle and ride m'bikes. You persist in your childish and pedantic 'one size fits all' rants that just show up your shortcomings. For the good of us all, please expand that mind of yours past the 'Thats the law and if you dont follow the law to the letter your a waste of space wanker' and the 'all vehicles on the road are the same, behave the same, and their drivers should all act the same' bullshit....

With comments like that, you prove that you can read but, sadly, lack the ability to comprehend. Or you are just trolling.

forkoil

9th March 2007, 13:15

With comments like that, you prove that you can read but, sadly, lack the ability to comprehend. Or you are just trolling.
Well thats trend of Wolf's comments.
You Mstrs, lost my attention when you said you wanted to punch a cyclists lights out because he dared to lean his bike against your car. Now if that doesnt betray an extreme view I dont know what is. Either that or you should enrol yourself at an anger management course...

imdying

9th March 2007, 15:05

forkoil

9th March 2007, 15:14

Fuck that, that's entirely perspective. Some would find that quite reasonable. I wouldn't waste my time getting out of the car to punch them though, just let them take off first and nudge them a little (read a lot).
You are under 30 and from Chch, both mitigating factors in your opinion :whocares:

yungatart

9th March 2007, 15:23

You Mstrs, lost my attention when you said you wanted to punch a cyclists lights out because he dared to lean his bike against your car. Now if that doesnt betray an extreme view I dont know what is. Either that or you should enrol yourself at an anger management course...

What is wrong with wanting to vent at someone who, without permission, decides to use your car as a leaning post! This cyclist showed no respect for someone else's possessions - kind of demonstrates more than adequately the attitude displayed on the road - a total lack of respect!
Neither Mstrs nor me, have a problem with cyclists (or other road users), who are considerate or law abiding, however we both get pissy with people who think they own the road - no matter what form of transport they are using!How would you react if I came and parked my pushy, motorcycle or car touching your pride and joy? Impressed? Happy? Not bothered? I doubt it!

imdying

9th March 2007, 15:28

You are under 30 and from Chch, both mitigating factors in your opinion :whocares:Well your profile says you're a linux fag, so I guess we're going to write you off too... :zzzz:

Spyke

9th March 2007, 15:49

well i've been riding a bicycle since i was 4 and have wanted a motorbike for the last 5 years, i'm nearly at the stage of getting one but at the moment im still riding a push bike.
i think normal cyclist that dont race get bord when they ride cause they cant go fast unless goin down a steep twisty hill :yes:.

i have riden two abrest but i try and keep on the left side of the left line wich can be tricky when theres cars parked where you are supposed to ride.

most of the time i find myself looking behind myself to see if a car is coming to see if they have room to go by, normally they do, this is when riding my bike with about 50cm of road thats safe or not smeared in glass you have to be careful.

can you guys imagen riding a motorbike having a road only 1m wide, that would be very hard.

i will never try and excuse the idiots that ride 4 abrest and do stupid things though.

its hard for me when i see a guy ride past me on a gsxr 250, i wish i had that power to play with, but all i have is a bike thatl do a good 45km on the flat (good for burning fat)

tips for a bored cyclist: when you find yourself swerving in between the white lines at intersections look behind you before you do it your crossing the path of cars. or if theres no motorbike/cars behind you try poping up a wheelie its rather easy if you can balance (get good at doing wheelies before doing them on any public road).

my experience as a cyclist

MSTRS

9th March 2007, 16:08

Well thats trend of Wolf's comments.
You Mstrs, lost my attention when you said you wanted to punch a cyclists lights out because he dared to lean his bike against your car. Now if that doesnt betray an extreme view I dont know what is. Either that or you should enrol yourself at an anger management course...

I think most of us would agree that arrogant road users come in all modes of transport. It is unfortunate that there does seem to be a preponderance of them in the form of roadracing cyclists tho. This attitude is not only displayed on the road - I was attending a bike meet some years ago and at the parking area afterwards, some dickwad leaned his (poxy) Cannondale against my car. On being told to move it or I would :innocent: , his response was that close from earning him a smack in the mouth. That some cyclists believe they have a god-given right to do whatever they want is what upsets me.

Have another read, and this time try real hard to comprehend. Misquoting me just makes you look foolish.

Wolf

9th March 2007, 19:02

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.
I agree wholeheartedly, and as a group when I was cycling on training rides we always did this, but when racing thats a bit of a different kettle of fish. Racing was usually done over a circuit of country roads based around the clubhouse. Most times bunches racing would be at most two abreast, but at critical times, like when a "break" was starting, on a hill or near the finish line sometimes they would go 3-4 abreast for short periods.

...But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.

SOME groups of cyclists are riding in a group (bunch) not because they are just having jolly good fun out on a Sun afternoon ride, but because they are training. That means learning to ride safely in a bunch, on the 'wheel' of the bike in front, to reduce drag, and to be ready both to take their place at the front (where all the hard work is done pushing the wind), and to be ready if someone tries a break. This is necessary training for a competitive cyclist.
And, by your own admission, if they are training then they should move back to two abreast when a vehicle approaches. Try being consistent.

But you and others of your ilk brand and demonise all cyclists and generalise, which really starts to piss some people in here off, those who actually cycle and ride m'bikes. You persist in your childish and pedantic 'one size fits all' rants that just show up your shortcomings. For the good of us all, please expand that mind of yours past the 'Thats the law and if you dont follow the law to the letter your a waste of space wanker' and the 'all vehicles on the road are the same, behave the same, and their drivers should all act the same' bullshit....
You mean as opposed to rants of the "I don't care what you say they were doing, they're cyclists and therefore above the law" persuasion?

Try a remedial reading course and re-read my posts (I can't be arsed repeating myself) then follow it up with a bit of self-assessment.

No matter what dangerous, arrogant and disrespectful behaviour is complained about, you have turned around and said "Oh, that's permissable, that's "our" right, you bastards have no respect for us".

And it's "apples and apples" - "vehicles on the road" and "vehicles on the road". Or pears and pears, if you prefer. An "apple" to my "pear" would be a vehicle racing on a designated race track cf my vehicle on the road.

Here's hoping that someday when you're exercising your assertion that you don't have to obey the law you get stopped by a cop and get ticketted - I feel it would be most amusing to read your whiney rant about the 'Thats the law and if you dont follow the law to the letter your a waste of space wanker' and the 'all vehicles on the road are the same, behave the same, and their drivers should all act the same' bullshit mentality of the cop...