The B'Stards come clean

[wkid_one]

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Justice Ministry banks on speed fines

13 August 2004 <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=5 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=5>http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/images/null.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>By OSKAR ALLEY

Justice Ministry documents reveal the cash-strapped department is relying on funds from more police-issued speeding tickets, prompting renewed claims that speed cameras are being used as a "cash cow".




The Government's insistence that speeding fines are about road safety - not making money - is under fire from the Opposition, which says unwitting motorists are paying for budget shortfalls.

National Party MP Tony Ryall said yesterday that the speeding ticket and speed camera schemes were being abused to fund a Government department that had cried poor.

He produced two documents showing the Justice Ministry was banking on more police tickets this year to add $3.5 million to its budget, after the Government declined its requests for more money. One document suggests Finance Minister Michael Cullen told the ministry to seek more money from court fines and police tickets to bolster its coffers.

The Government and police deny any wrongdoing, saying the number of police-issued tickets has, in fact, decreased this year.

Mr Ryall, who obtained the documents under the Official Information Act, said they proved the ministry had planned to milk police-issued tickets to bolster its budget. "This is the proof that police speeding tickets are a cash cow being used to prop up government departments," he said.

"It can't be a coincidence that in March the ministry needed money and was counting on an extra $3.5 million in tickets, then magically three months later, police announce a 25 per cent hike in the number of tickets this year. The papers show it's the ministry pulling the police's strings, so now we know it's all about money, not road safety."

One document, prepared in January, shows Dr Cullen told the ministry it could "find additional money" from increasing infringement fees and improved fines collections. The second document, from March, shows the department was banking on a $3.5 million increase in police-issued fines from their new "anytime, anywhere" speed camera regime.

The following month, police pulled down signs warning motorists they were in speed camera areas. In June, police revealed they planned to issue up to 400,000 tickets this financial year, up 25 per cent on last year.

Police Minister George Hawkins rejected Mr Ryall's claims that the ministry was trying to cash in on police tickets, saying the number of police-issued tickets was decreasing.

"I think those people will be disappointed, because speed's coming down on our roads, as far as the revenue goes, but absolutely delighted that we now have safer roads and a dropping road toll."

Though the public may not like speed campaigns, the drop in tickets issued suggested people were "getting the message", Mr Hawkins said.

Police national road safety manager Steve Fitzgerald said it was police, and only police, who decided how many tickets were issued each year.

"They are purely operational decisions for police and made by us," he said. Though police had "guesstimated" issuing 25 per cent more tickets this year, the reality was that the number of tickets was decreasing.

"Those numbers we produced were a best guess based on the previous year's experience, but we're delighted with the current numbers on the basis that there's fewer people offending."

Dr Cullen's office said he would not have told the ministry to tell police to issue more tickets.

Automobile Association spokesman George Fairbairn said if the ministry needed more money it should work harder to collect the $574 million owed in overdue court fines. "You can't expect motorists to respect speed cameras if it's proved they're for revenue gathering or to help the Government balance the books."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/common/imageViewer/0,1445,157656,00.jpg

[Blakamin]

Grrrr... In Queensland they have a sign saying "speed camera ahed" every time they put out a camera, and its a marked VAN!

my boss got $80 for doin 63k in a 50 zone going down hill dropping me off 2 weeks ago... he couldnt even tell me what car it was in...
:puke: :Police:

[Quasievil]

Well I guess we all knew that anyway but that somewhat confirms it doesnt it.

Bloody pisses me off, and these pricks get out of bed every morning and mix with everyday people, what planet are they on and more inportantly why?

[What?]

Holmes was interesting on Wed (?) night. Bloke from the police association was on the mark about the cops working to a quota at the expense of investigating crime, but stuffed up badly at the end in saying we should not blame the police commissioner or district commanders. His stance was it was govt requiring income from traffic tickets in exchange for funding that is driving current police tactics.
He is wrong!
The top cops are to blame - they are the very people who can force a change in govt policy. At a time when the general populace is screaming for better policing and stronger sentencing, it would be political suicide for the govt to pull funding off the cops because they refused to issue traffic tickets for minor infringements.

[SPman]

"Why an I not surprised by any of this", he muttered cynically to himself, as he shuffled of to Galbraiths to blank out his hopeful expectations of a fair and just society.........:drinknsin

[spudchucka]

The Government's insistence that speeding fines are about road safety - not making money - is under fire from the Opposition, which says unwitting motorists are paying for budget shortfalls.

National Party MP Tony Ryall said yesterday that the speeding ticket and speed camera schemes were being abused to fund a Government department that had cried poor.
I wonder what Tony would be saying if he was in the hot seat rather than sitting in his comfortable opposition chair, happily casting rocks at everybody else.


Mr Ryall, who obtained the documents under the Official Information Act, said they proved the ministry had planned to milk police-issued tickets to bolster its budget. "This is the proof that police speeding tickets are a cash cow being used to prop up government departments," he said.
So if we all vote for Tony and the Nats then they will do away with speed cameras and infringement notices. COUGH COUGH, yeah right!


"I think those people will be disappointed, because speed's coming down on our roads, as far as the revenue goes, but absolutely delighted that we now have safer roads and a dropping road toll."
Drooling George is just as guilty of passing the police political football.



Though the public may not like speed campaigns, the drop in tickets issued suggested people were "getting the message", Mr Hawkins said.
As above.

Its all about politics!

[matthewt]

I wonder what Tony would be saying if he was in the hot seat rather than sitting in his comfortable opposition chair, happily casting rocks at everybody else.

How true !!

I had to answer some very sticky parliment questions when Steve Maharey was in opposition, the same sort of questions I'm sure he hopes no one will ask now.

[jrandom]

I had to answer some very sticky parliment questions when Steve Maharey was in opposition

Forgive the deficit in my internal mental model of 'Matt Thompson'; were you an MP at some stage, then?

If this is a rather large *whoosh* then I'll just quietly crawl back into my corner.

[Hitcher]

If we were all to rise up as one, yay verily brothers and sisters, refuse to pay instant fines, demand our day in Court, force the Police to invest resources prosecuting speeding fines, forsooth the law it would soon change. Should we choose to be like sheep and be passively herded hither and yon by the forces of evel* and darkness, therefore shall we be preyed on like the Assyrian coming down on the fold. United we stand, untied we fall!

[matthewt]

Forgive the deficit in my internal mental model of 'Matt Thompson'; were you an MP at some stage, then?

Ha, an MP !!! you actually made me LOL.

No but I was the techomage that could get the facts and figures out of the system for the questions he asked for. I did it mainly because in the early days only 2 or 3 people understood enough to get accurate information out of a new system. Now that system is nearly 7 years old it could probably be done by the business users instead of requiring someone like me to be involved.

[magnum]

Holmes was interesting on Wed (?) night. Bloke from the police association was on the mark about the cops working to a quota at the expense of investigating crime, but stuffed up badly at the end in saying we should not blame the police commissioner or district commanders. His stance was it was govt requiring income from traffic tickets in exchange for funding that is driving current police tactics.
He is wrong!
The top cops are to blame - they are the very people who can force a change in govt policy. At a time when the general populace is screaming for better policing and stronger sentencing, it would be political suicide for the govt to pull funding off the cops because they refused to issue traffic tickets for minor infringements.
since when has holmes ever been interesting?hes a smirky twat with no talent or integrity,sack em i say,cheeky honky. :sly:

[spudchucka]

If we were all to rise up as one, yay verily brothers and sisters, refuse to pay instant fines, demand our day in Court, force the Police to invest resources prosecuting speeding fines, forsooth the law it would soon change. Should we choose to be like sheep and be passively herded hither and yon by the forces of evel* and darkness, therefore shall we be preyed on like the Assyrian coming down on the fold. United we stand, untied we fall!
And you will just create a self fulfilling prophecy in relation to the other thing that irks the public about the police, attendance times for burglary etc.

We are all the masters of our own destiny / misery - you choose which way you want to go.

[jimbo600]

And you will just create a self fulfilling prophecy in relation to the other thing that irks the public about the police, attendance times for burglary etc.

We are all the masters of our own destiny / misery - you choose which way you want to go.

Police have no interest in rapid response times for burglary anyway. Problem orientated policing is the buzz now. Pass on the buck to others to sort out why thay got robbed to prevent it. Manage the stats is the key these days.

[Skyryder]

We are all the masters of our own destiny / misery - you choose which way you want to go.

Only if you have a brain and know the front from the back and the top from the bottom. Plenty out there going round in circles not knowing where they have been or where they are going or if they are actualy in motian at all.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

wkid. The photo says it all.

Skyryder

[What?]

since when has holmes ever been interesting?hes a smirky twat with no talent or integrity,sack em i say,cheeky honky. :sly:
I meant the programme, not the man, err, I mean jumped-up little twerp.

[Lou Girardin]

We are all the masters of our own destiny / misery - you choose which way you want to go.

But, whatever you do, don't protest about it.
Masters of your own destiny, indeed. It must be bliss on Planet Spud.

As to the original post, the fact that pollies are jumping on this issue shows that they see votes in it from an increasingly disgruntled population.
If the pressure stays on, even the mouth-breathers at Police headquarters will realise that they need to change horses on 'road safety'.
What will the LTSA do without their puppets then?

[spudchucka]

But, whatever you do, don't protest about it.
Masters of your own destiny, indeed. It must be bliss on Planet Spud
It is bliss because there aren't any fucked up nob ends like you trying to blame the world for their miserable and pathetic existance.


As to the original post, the fact that pollies are jumping on this issue shows that they see votes in it from an increasingly disgruntled population.
Or that they see by actively promoting an issue to the point where it becomes one of public concern then they will score political points to their own benefit. Sounds a lot like you in fact Lou, you should run for Dorkland mayor and sort out all the two faced, hypocrite and corrupt public officials that get so far up your nose.


If the pressure stays on, even the mouth-breathers at Police headquarters will realise that they need to change horses on 'road safety'.
What will the LTSA do without their puppets then?
Better yet, why don't you go for PM or just get yourself Andy Knackerheads job at the LTSA, then you could fulfill all your wet dreams at once.

[Storm]

Does it really change anything? We all knew they were after money from day one. Who hasnt heard a story of a lethal black spot being ignored while the falt straight gets tickets handed out by the dozen? Or the cop in Taihape who handed down 100 tickets in 8 hrs ? Like they say, if you want to do something, get in amongst it and have a go. Sideline coaching isnt going to get it done