View Full Version : Uhoh. Sneaky new noise rules for WoF. Make sure you've got your standard cans.
Ixion
1st March 2007, 11:22
The wonderful people at LTSA are proposing an amendment to the exhaust noise rules at WoF time.
On the face of it , it doesn't seem much. Cars drop from 95dB to 93dB, bikes stay at 100dB.
BUT - there's a nasty sneaky twist.
In essence, as things are now, if a WoF tester thinks your zorst is modified AND he thinks it exceeds the 100dB, he can fail it, and you have to get an objective test to prove he's wrong (cost about $200).
The new rules reverse this. If a tester believes that an exhaust has been modified he HAS to refer it to an objective test UNLESS he considers that the noise level is OBVIOUSLY below the limit.
So the test has been turned on it's head. Instead of the tester failing you because he thinks the zorst is too loud, now he must fail you (unless you have standard system) , unless he thinks it definately is not too loud.
Clearly, the intention is a massive crack down on modified exhausts (in fairness, almost certainly aimed boi racers, not us)
New rules are here http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/consultation/vehicle-equipment/draft-vehicle-equipment-amendment-rule.html
and the sneaky bit
Clause 3.1 (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/vehicle-equipment-2004.html#31) is amended by inserting the following subclauses after 3.1(1) (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/vehicle-equipment-2004.html#31):
“3.1(1A) Subject to 3.1(1B), if a light motor vehicle in Schedule 3 is modified so as to increase the vehicle’s exhaust noise output, the exhaust system must be certified under the Low Volume Vehicle Code in accordance with Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002 (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/vehicle-standards-compliance-2002.html).
“3.1(1B) Subclause 3.1(1A) does not apply if the vehicle’s increased exhaust noise output is clearly below the maximum decibel level specified in Schedule 3.”
avgas
1st March 2007, 11:32
bastards. the fazer pipe is standard looking. but i was just considereing getting a set of trumperts put on
onearmedbandit
1st March 2007, 11:38
Well just as well I bought that std can off of trademe a while back, still got it sitting under my desk at work. And tuning the bike to suit each is as easy as switching maps on the Yoshi EMS I just installed. No dramas for me, currently.
Toaster
1st March 2007, 11:40
Anyone need standard pipes for a Honda VTR let me know. They are in mint new condition and will happily sell them.
skidMark
1st March 2007, 11:55
Well just as well I bought that std can off of trademe a while back, still got it sitting under my desk at work. And tuning the bike to suit each is as easy as switching maps on the Yoshi EMS I just installed. No dramas for me, currently.
the only maps i can switch is the pages in my wises , lucky bugger lol
limbimtimwim
1st March 2007, 12:23
Funny they pick 100db for bikes, I think my GSXR is 102 as standard. Let's me off the hook.
I wonder if dealer fitted at time of purchase count as standard? I mean can you say 'Termignoni? Hey, even if you did say Termignoni, I wouldn't be able to hear you over them. Or the dry clutch.
surfer
1st March 2007, 12:24
The rules have been kicked around for a bit and have been on the cards for a while now. They are aimed at the boy racers but there is bound to be some reprecussions for bikers. Even so being overloud isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Ever run a bike with loud pipes and got a headache as a result? Not a good one for yourself. What about the long suffering neighbours who have to put up with it? Bet they love you. Also exposure over a period of time to noise damages your hearing so unless you wear earplugs eventually this will come back to bite you on the bum. So why would you want to be overloud? Oh yeah, already heard the arguement about being heard as well as seen and I do subsrcibe to this line of thinking in this age of the non-seeing moron behind the wheel of a cage.
Before you call me a nanna I have modified pipes that are not the quietest but at least they don't set off car alarms as I blast by. It will be interesting to see the effects of these rules at WOF time.
Motu
1st March 2007, 12:25
Yellow draft - the intention is to remove the objective part altogether.Obviously we can't have one inspector passing a system and another failing the same system on the same day just because of what they ''think'' is too noisy or not.For an AVI to think is against the intention of LTNZ.People complain....to stop the complaints we make another rule.
Ixion
1st March 2007, 12:27
The reason that bikes get a few extra dB is that they consider that some of the noise recorded on a bike test will be from the engine itself and air intakes - which are much closer to the zorst than on a car.
"Standard" will be what the bike was complied with - normally OEM manufacturers fitment. Slash cuts aren't standard even if a dealer fits them for you when you buy a new bike.
If OEM standard exceeds the 100dB , that's OK, it's what the bike was complianced with.
Rules at present are still the "significantly and noticeably louder than standard" as far as I was aware. Warrant inspectors (for cars at least) have been told the dB limit has nothing to do with WoFs yet and to decide on exhausts as they should have been doing for years.
They are planning on introducting certs for car exhausts, anyone heard anything about this for bikes?
xwhatsit
1st March 2007, 17:15
What's the test like? Revving out at 10,000rpm, or quietly ticking over at 1500?
I've noticed that for better or worse (well, probably for our benefit) that the general public seems to have higher tolerance for bike noise. It's like it's just assumed that bikes are noisy. Kind of like lawnmowers. They are frigging loud, but people don't seem to notice them so badly.
pete376403
1st March 2007, 17:19
Is the noise test a drive by or static? What revs? Under load or revving free? There are so many variables. How do they eliminate environmental noise? My bro-in-law used to work at Southwards, where they made exhaust systems for Ford and Holden - to get an accurate test of the noise levels, they were tested on cars way out in the outback of Aus, it was the only place where it was quiet enough to be sure they were not picking up environment sound. He told me of one test where a Falcon made more noise coming toward the meter than going away - induction, engine, fan etc was louder than what was coming out the pipe. And not to mention the racket that tyres make...
Ixion
1st March 2007, 17:43
The objective test is a static test. It's been around for a while, there are threads on here that have links to the test protocol.
They are not changing the rules about the measurement test. Just changing the rule on whether you need to have it done. Before you had to have it done only if the tester reckoned that your exhaust was too loud.
Now (effectively) you'll have to have it done if you have a non standard exhaust (I've simplified, but that's the intent). So you'll have to have a non standard exhaust low volume certified, like lowering a cage.
It's only a draft at present, hasn't been introduced yet.
Pussy
1st March 2007, 18:06
Funny they pick 100db for bikes, I think my GSXR is 102 as standard. Let's me off the hook.
I wonder if dealer fitted at time of purchase count as standard? I mean can you say 'Termignoni? Hey, even if you did say Termignoni, I wouldn't be able to hear you over them. Or the dry clutch.
Just checked the noise label on my 750, yep....102dB with the stock muffler
terbang
1st March 2007, 18:13
LTSA, Land Transport Safety Authority. Really, how does a noisey vehicle relate an unsafe one..? Bearing in mind a whole host of other issues out there like driver licencing and training remain relatively untouched, we get noise abatement rammed down our necks.. Pffft safety, bollocks to that as an excuse, its really just a few squeakey wheels (sleepless ones) being oiled. Rated takeoffs out of wellington from now on...
avgas
1st March 2007, 18:24
Go down to your latest testing station, most of those guys are tone deaf anyhow
Ascott
1st March 2007, 18:31
the sooner someone assasinates that cunt knackerhead the better for us all!
Mr. Peanut
1st March 2007, 19:33
Gotta love powervalves, close to pass, open them as you walk out :devil2:
paturoa
1st March 2007, 19:35
So I supose they have also thought about me swapping the microns for the standard cans to get the WOF and then swapping back (would take less than 30 minutes on the SV)
Is there anything proposed about that?
Ixion
1st March 2007, 19:36
Nope, that'll still be a goer.
paturoa
1st March 2007, 19:40
Nope, that'll still be a goer.
Roger that!
Motu
1st March 2007, 19:58
LTSA, Land Transport Safety Authority.
No such entity....do you mean LTNZ?
terbang
1st March 2007, 20:11
No such entity....do you mean LTNZ?
Umm last time I looked here http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/ there was such an entity..!
The Land Transport Safety Authority is a stand alone Crown entity charged with promoting safety in land transport at reasonable cost.
Motu
1st March 2007, 20:18
Uh....how about you read the link you posted.
terbang
1st March 2007, 20:23
Uh....how about you read the link you posted.
I read it and there is such a thing as LTSA. Now off to google you go and you wil find they are the same thing. So there is such an entity contrary to what you just said. Look at Ixions origional link it was LTSA and that stands for land transport safety Authority. No ifs or buts on that either.
Motu
1st March 2007, 20:36
No,I still can't find anything about LTSA,it's all LTNZ.
Show me a link to LTSA.....a current one,like,it's 2007 y'know.
terbang
1st March 2007, 20:52
You are correct they have changed the name to LTNZ and the LTSA is from the past.
Happy.
Now back to my origional question. What is the safety issue with vehicle noise..?
Gixxer 4 ever
1st March 2007, 20:56
Just checked the noise label on my 750, yep....102dB with the stock muffler
My 1999 GSX-R 750 has a full stainless race kit and is only 97 db at 4500 RPM. So is it legal? Should I remove the band that has " Not for road use" on it?
Gixxer 4 ever
1st March 2007, 21:00
So I supose they have also thought about me swapping the microns for the standard cans to get the WOF and then swapping back (would take less than 30 minutes on the SV)
Is there anything proposed about that?
I did hear they are going to give plod a hand held test kit. Piss him/her off and you get to pay that tax as well
terbang
1st March 2007, 21:01
What about some of these Harleys you hear that seem to make lots of noise? Or do they mainly have aftermarket pipes on them.
Motu
1st March 2007, 21:09
You are correct they have changed the name to LTNZ and the LTSA is from the past.
Happy.
Now back to my origional question. What is the safety issue with vehicle noise..?
Thank you,if you want to criticize something,it pays to direct it to the correct place otherwise it makes you look a fool.
What safety issue? It's not about safety,it's about compliance.WoF is moving away from the safety ideals of the 1950's.Motor vehicles throughout the world now have to comply with various standards stipulated for various markets....the WoF is moving towards making vehicles stay within the standards they were complied in.Nothing to do with safety at all.
bangin', was next to a harley at the lights today and i literally started feeling ill due to the noise. even at idle. was shocking.... mind you, I'm no stranger to loud vehicles. all my vehicles bar the van have modified exhausts. there's a difference to tasteful, and ridiculous
Ixion
1st March 2007, 21:53
You realise where this will quickly lead of course? Since most non standard exhausts will have to have a LVV certificate, cops will start checking them. Then the "switch it back for WoF" won't work. The saving grace is that not many cops will be able to identify a non OEM exhaust on a bike.
Motu
1st March 2007, 22:20
I've got no problems with riding bikes that will fall outside any regulations they impose.....but those who have to have the latest bike are going to be frustrated with a fluffy little exhaust note I'd strain to hear.And bloody good job too,bikes are too bloody noisy.....except mine,'cause I'm alright Jack.
scumdog
2nd March 2007, 00:21
What about some of these Harleys you hear that seem to make lots of noise? Or do they mainly have aftermarket pipes on them.
I can tell you from experience that a stock modern Harley is so quiet you need to look at the engine rocking around to know it's actually running:yes:
What?
2nd March 2007, 05:28
... they have changed the name to LTNZ and the LTSA is from the past.
They had to change the name after they found out that everyone knew what the "S" really stood for - Stupidity.
Forest
2nd March 2007, 12:00
Thank you,if you want to criticize something,it pays to direct it to the correct place otherwise it makes you look a fool.
Funnily enough there is no website at http://www.ltnz.govt.nz/
So it would be an easy mistake to make.
zooter
2nd March 2007, 13:32
www.landtransport.govt.nz knock yourself out
Forest
2nd March 2007, 13:38
www.landtransport.govt.nz knock yourself out
The point I was making is that http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/ is active, while http://www.ltnz.govt.nz/ is not.
Edit - I don't want to let this derail the discussion.
bikemike
2nd March 2007, 22:35
I've noticed that for better or worse (well, probably for our benefit) that the general public seems to have higher tolerance for bike noise. It's like it's just assumed that bikes are noisy. Kind of like lawnmowers. They are frigging loud, but people don't seem to notice them so badly.
That's because the car hoons go round and round and round, and up and down and up and down and so on. They pull wheelspins out of every junction, drive just to show off, and piss everyone off all the time. (bastards)
Bike's on the other hand are usually going from here to there. Here it comes, there it goes. Nice noise, all forgotten. How civilised.
However, agree some of those loud aftermarkets (typically on Harleys...) are too loud, turns it into a pissing contest.
I HATE lawnmowers, they are the bane of suburbia with their incessant bumbling drone! If I were presidente I would have a lawn mowing service which visits your street on the allotted day (saving a rain check) and does the lot. You can all sell your lawn mowers and do something useful. The rest of the week would be peeeaaaceful.
They want NZ to be sustainable and carbon neutral, the mowers go before the motorcycles do! Grow some veges and sell the mower. :dodge:
sunhuntin
4th March 2007, 15:36
I can tell you from experience that a stock modern Harley is so quiet you need to look at the engine rocking around to know it's actually running:yes:
yep, ive only ever heard one or two harleys that were loudly offensive. one is started up right outside my bedroom window at 6.30 every week day, and the other was in the pits at manfield yesterday. outside, it sounded hot, but in the pits, echoing off the tin, it was nuts.
music to some is strangled cats to another. i find some sports bikes noise offensive, but i can see where others would think it a lullaby. honestly, id rather have heaps of noise than none... i still havent forgiven that goldwing in wellington that nearly scared me off the bike as he over took. right mirror was broken off, so no chance of seeing him.
i hope they target the "boh-boh-boh" boy racer exhausts. head ache material at its best. thats the one thing i hate at work, is having to listen to that shite before the engine cuts out. same goes for stereos.
Harry the Barstard
4th March 2007, 15:45
i find wof people don't realy care anyway in reguards to bikes. Has anyone watched them do a WOF check. I do more in monthly maintainance. Most dont have a clue but dont want to admit it. I have only been to VTNZ's for wofs though and i know the guys at my local dont know squat abput bikes, Bless em.
Wenier
4th March 2007, 16:25
I hope my bike dont have a problem. And lucky for me my car has the factory exhaust option it sounds good and aint that loud so shouldnt be a problem really. bet they will still be like this aint right.
onearmedbandit
4th March 2007, 16:36
music to some is strangled cats to another. i find some sports bikes noise offensive, but i can see where others would think it a lullaby. honestly, id rather have heaps of noise than none...
i hope they target the "boh-boh-boh" boy racer exhausts. head ache material at its best. thats the one thing i hate at work, is having to listen to that shite before the engine cuts out.
So loud bikes are ok but not loud cars? There would be those in that group who think their car exhausts sound 'horn' and bike exhausts sound like shit.
The Pastor
4th March 2007, 16:48
If your worried about failing a wof becuase of your bike's exhaust just shove a rag down the pipe before you go in.
Another quality tip brought to you by RM
SORTED!
So loud bikes are ok but not loud cars? There would be those in that group who think their car exhausts sound 'horn' and bike exhausts sound like shit.
Depends who you ask doesn't it
Let one go you have to let the other go too. Not fair if bikes can be loud and cars cant, and vice verca of course.
In saying that, there are plenty more obnoxiously loud cars around that bikes
sunhuntin
4th March 2007, 17:14
So loud bikes are ok but not loud cars? There would be those in that group who think their car exhausts sound 'horn' and bike exhausts sound like shit.
ive never met a bike yet that stays running due to the turbo, and ive not yet had a tension headache from any bike exhaust. i dont mind em if they shut off, but when you are standing next to it, pumping in a full tank of gas, by the time you finish, your head feels likes its gonna explode. i try not to serve those vehicles until they have shut down. same goes for loud stereos.
MikeyG
5th March 2007, 13:10
The noise thing that pisses me off is all the signs for "Heavy Vehicles, No Engine Breaking" in residential areas. Many modern big rigs have transmission breaking systems that use the engine breaking and a hydraulic retarder in the transmission to help slow the truck down, these systems work really well as a form of braking.
My point is that a truck should be allowed to allowed to use all forms of braking installed. I certinally don't want me or any of my mates hit if they step onto the road and a vehicle can't stop in time because they are only allowed to use some of their brakes.
Trucks are generally only on the highways passing through residential areas anyway, the people who bought houses beside the highways should not be allowed to complain about noise since the highway was probably there before the house.
kiwifruit
5th March 2007, 13:16
I've never had any trouble....
onearmedbandit
5th March 2007, 13:35
The noise thing that pisses me off is all the signs for "Heavy Vehicles, No Engine Breaking" in residential areas. Many modern big rigs have transmission breaking systems that use the engine breaking and a hydraulic retarder in the transmission to help slow the truck down, these systems work really well as a form of braking.
My point is that a truck should be allowed to allowed to use all forms of braking installed. I certinally don't want me or any of my mates hit if they step onto the road and a vehicle can't stop in time because they are only allowed to use some of their brakes.
Surely if it's the difference between running someone over or using your engine brakes no one is going to get up in arms over a little extra noise? To me that's just plain common sense.
Cop - "Don't worry mate, you may have killed little Sally but at least you didn't disturb the peace. Ooooh boy, then you would've been in trouble.' I don't think so.
Motu
5th March 2007, 13:59
It's just Jabob's Brakes they don't want used in residential areas.....but they can't do that as it's advertising eh? They could use some complicated jargon about exhaust valve acuated decompression devices,but everyone calls them an exhaust brake.A true exhaust brake makes hardly any noise...just transfers it from the exhaust to the inlet.People bought those houses possibly in the days when road freight was much less,and Jacob Brakes not as common.
scumdog
5th March 2007, 15:36
Trucks are generally only on the highways passing through residential areas anyway, the people who bought houses beside the highways should not be allowed to complain about noise since the highway was probably there before the house.
Not down here sunshine - open road, (no residential area) then into the 70kph residential area and very shortly after into the 50kph area. (residential)
The signs are a REQUEST and have the word 'please' included on them. (Well, at least so down here).
And in an emergency I doubt anybody would criticise the use of a noisy 'exhaust brake'.
Ixion
5th March 2007, 15:39
I can recall seeing signs asking trucks to keep the noise down outside small downs at least 30 years ago. And old signs then. It's nothing new.
Bruiser
10th March 2007, 22:09
i find wof people don't realy care anyway in reguards to bikes. Has anyone watched them do a WOF check. I do more in monthly maintainance. Most dont have a clue but dont want to admit it. I have only been to VTNZ's for wofs though and i know the guys at my local dont know squat abput bikes, Bless em.
I take my harley to the local VTNZ here in West Auckland and the testing staff, 90% of whom are of indian extraction, definitely struggle with bike testing.
During the last WOF test I was asked to brake test by applying both brakes after a 5 meter run up to prove stopping power over the runners, and fucking near dropped it ( I'm still getting over a major accident where my right leg was crushed, and wasn't ready for this shit).
No matter what they say in future I am never doing that particular test for them again. If they drop a cheque for full value ($55k) on me they can do the bloody test themselves.
Off topic but.
eviltwin
10th March 2007, 22:44
fuck 'em! i get my WOF at the bike shop they have selective deafness.
Wenier
10th March 2007, 22:55
Yea most modern trucks these days can use there extra braking systems as they are practically silent. I was driving a 03 model truck and would go through the residential areas with it on and they have no idea.
Hans
11th March 2007, 09:53
The noise thing that pisses me off is all the signs for "Heavy Vehicles, No Engine Breaking" in residential areas. Many modern big rigs have transmission breaking systems that use the engine breaking and a hydraulic retarder in the transmission to help slow the truck down, these systems work really well as a form of braking.
My point is that a truck should be allowed to allowed to use all forms of braking installed. I certinally don't want me or any of my mates hit if they step onto the road and a vehicle can't stop in time because they are only allowed to use some of their brakes.
Trucks are generally only on the highways passing through residential areas anyway, the people who bought houses beside the highways should not be allowed to complain about noise since the highway was probably there before the house.
Too damn right about the exhaust brakes. Local councils banning them is a Yank/Kiwi thing. For example most of Europe says that their use is mandatory on down grades and no-one at all bans them.
kevie
16th March 2007, 11:14
Just checked the noise label on my 750, yep....102dB with the stock muffler
HAHAHAH heard recently of a cop that pulled up a bike and took a reading (poking the unit into the exhaust and getting a too high reading, biker told cop to place unit in same position on his cop car ..... got a too high reading as well heheheh
hhhmmmmmm took my Virago to wof just recently, got told (again) my bike is marginal, wind it out could earn me a pink sticker hehe (I have Harley strait pipes on it) but sheesh ... wouldnt be the same with standard pipes on her
peasea
21st March 2007, 21:07
I got nailed on my last WOF for noisy mufflers. Simple fix; head home, switch mufflers, get WOF, repeat step one. Then, just last weekend in Rotorua, a member of Sulphur City MC told me my bike was "pretty quiet". It's all too grey that area and open to interpretation and the 'bad hair day' factor.
The bottom line (without a decibel meter) is this; if your bike's noise level is dubuious and the tester doesn't like your paint job, you're going to fail. Plain and simple.
wolf.47
26th March 2007, 21:36
This whole Db rule really pisses me off, just because a few little teenage cage drivers keep riping around town at night in there mum and dads front wheel drive piece of crap with no springs and the mufflers cut off its gone and stuffed it for every one (e.g custom bike builders, and hot rodders.)
When's every one going to stop being so p.c, and just take those cars off em' and put them in a paddock and set fire to em. Don't get to many bikers hooning around town at night doing the laps with the loud exhaust just for the hell of it.
Thats my 5 cents worth anyway.
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