Immigrants with HIV? Come on in!

[Expert]

Have I mis-read or mis-understood this article?
Are immigrants from certain aids-ridden countries not required to take an HIV test?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=000B50BB-5955-15E6-973183027AF10017

Is the immigration influx problem so dire in NZ that we need to take on people with Aids (I realise HIV isn't full blown Aids) and who most likely will be sponging off the state and healthcare for most of their lives?

Haven't we got enough problems and spongers already?

I'm sure there are more worthy causes to admit to NZ, (NOT Ackmed Zowie, spelling?)

[James Deuce]

Oh FFS.

White sheets first door on the left.

Pointy hoods, take the lift to the 8th floor, ask for Cletus.

Eye holes for the hoods, try Mabel on the third floor. Take the hood off before she cuts the holes.

Ask Simeon nicely, he can knock together a 10 foot cross in about 10 minutes.

No admittance in the first place without your own pitchfork.

[Expert]

Oh FFS.

White sheets first door on the left.

Pointy hoods, take the lift to the 8th floor, ask for Cletus.

Eye holes for the hoods, try Mabel on the third floor. Take the hood off before she cuts the holes.

Ask Simeon nicely, he can knock together a 10 foot cross in about 10 minutes.

No admittance in the first place without your own pitchfork.


Jim2,
Do you make no attempt to hide your ignorance?

Since when has bringing a deadly disease into a country become a racial problem?

Why don't you pull your head in and think about the implications of this before making an ill informed, ignorant remark usually reserved for people who let their emotions rule their intelligence.

Do you think the quarantine regulations we have in place for animals are prejudist against cats and dogs?

[Joni]

My take on it...
I immigrated to NZ 3 years ago... I came from an African country where we all know numbers of HIV are higher. I was not required to do an HIV test to get into NZ, however the immigration rules need a syphalis test to be done.

I was curious about this and asked why... I mean surely a country should test for stuff like this. I was told the law was written in the 20's some time, and it has not been ammended yet for HIV.

sorry, to interfere in the arguement, but I thought it was relevant.

edit: rules may have changed now, I dont know...

[Dafe]

After recently realising that the Government had brought in potentially hundreds of HIV positive refugees, The Government has asked for all recent Zimbabwean/Algerian refugees to attend tests for the HIV virus.
The Government has guaranteed that they will fully treat any carriers of the disease and all financial costs for any treatment will be covered by the tax payers, with no cost to the refugees. Only 8 percent of those communities turned up to have tests done.

This is not the sort of information you hear of Government owned airways, otherwise they risk loosing their own government funding.
This news is about a month old.

[Dave Lobster]

The drugs are a fecking fortune.

Isn't it reasonable to expect immigrants to be disease free? It isn't racist, is it? How is it racist? Unless someone is suggesting that people of a certain race are more likely to have AIDS. Which I'm not, of course.


A couple of years ago, the UK took in several hundred AIDS infested alleged nurses. They're now working in hospitals in the UK. Nice..

[James Deuce]

Jim2,
Do you make no attempt to hide your ignorance?

Since when has bringing a deadly disease into a country become a racial problem?

Why don't you pull your head in and think about the implications of this before making an ill informed, ignorant remark usually reserved for people who let their emotions rule their intelligence.

Do you think the quarantine regulations we have in place for animals are prejudist against cats and dogs?

News Flash!

HIV/AIDS already in NZ and on the rise amongst the male population, despite years of education.

I'll pull my head when people start acting with compassion and acceptance and not blind fear, and what was that word you accused me of? Umm... let me see..., umm?

Ignorance!

My wife has worked in infectious diseases at Auckland Hospital, treating people dying of AIDS well before even the transmission vectors were understood and patients were treated like they had ebola. We've both looked after kids with HIV, my wife through nursing, and me reading stories, taking them for rides in an Austin Healy Sprite and on the back of bikes.

What about Syphilis in the Ethiopian community, or TB in Pacific Island communities, why don't we just turf them all out as well? Or Typhus that is springing up here and there in South Auckland.

Animal Quarantine is an economic issue, not a Human Rights one.

http://www.maf.govt.nz/quarantine/

You've no experience of people living their life under the cloud of a possible death sentence, no idea of the stigma attached to these people through ignorance. If they can come here and be treated with dignity then good stuff! You, personally, and people you know and care about, are not going to die of AIDS because a refugee with HIV was let into the country.

There's already enough Kiwis with HIV to realise the "nightmare" you've envisioned because of a small number of refugees, and those refugees are vastly outnumbered by home grown HIV cases.

The only implications I see are that NZ is closing its heart to people who need help.

[Deano]

The drugs are a fecking fortune.

Isn't it reasonable to expect immigrants to be disease free? It isn't racist, is it? How is it racist? Unless someone is suggesting that people of a certain race are more likely to have AIDS. Which I'm not, of course.


A couple of years ago, the UK took in several hundred AIDS infested alleged nurses. They're now working in hospitals in the UK. Nice..

It's a can of worms surely.

Do we test:
- anyone from Asia for bird flu,
- anyone from the middle east for Islamic suicidal tendancies,
- anyone of 'white' heritage to ensure the browning of NZ continues,
- anyone from America for any brain power ?
- anyone with a motorcycle licence for deviant behaviour ?

OOps.....just kidding, but a can of worms never the less.

[Indiana_Jones]

It's hardly a racist issue.

I can't give blood because I lived in the UK from '80 till '96, or whatever the cut off date is. And I have no issue with that, they don't want the risk of mad cow etc, and they don't want more HIV into this country then there already is.

It's a health issue, and it's for money reasons too. Like fuck the NZ tax payer is paying for someone to comes to NZ knowing they have HIV and expect to get free med care.

That's bollocks.

-Indy

[Clockwork]

Yap, sorry Jim2. You're right about the lack of compassion but I don't see this a race issue, its just as much an economic issue as animal quarantine.

[Hawkeye]

It's hardly a racist issue.

I can't give blood because I lived in the UK from '80 till '96, or whatever the cut off date is. And I have no issue with that, they don't want the risk of mad cow etc, and they don't want more HIV into this country then there already is.

-Indy

I'm in the same boat as you Indy. I was a Platelet donor for 4 years in NZ. Used to get hooked up to the machine once a month for 2 hours to give the donation. According to the blood service in Welly, I have the highest platelet count they have ever had. I have directly help hundreds of cancer victims recover from Chemo due to my donations and have been credited for directly saving the lives of 2 critical intensive care patients.
On the day that the announcement came that they were going to stop taking my donation because I could 'possilbly' have mad cow, I was actually in donating. Next thing I know I had TV1, TV3, The Herald and the Dom Post sticking camera's in my face asking my thoughts. I made the national news, headline story on all channels that night. (my 15 mins of fame).
That was 2 months before the final cut-off date. I sat down with the head of the department and scheduled a donation every 10 days with my last one being on cut-off day.

Where am I going with this. OK. You ask either of those 2 patient if they weren't prepared to risk getting mad cow by refusing to take my platelets. I'm sure I know the answer.
Due to the Kiwi OE culture, there are many Kiwi's who can't donate because they were in the UK during the timeframe. Add to that list all of the UK emmigrants.

It's all about risk mitigation but a blanket approach is not always the best solution. They are constantly asking for more blood donors as there is a huge shortage. Yet there is also a huge resource available out there.


As for HIV. With the size of the population, allowing emmigrants in (no matter what creed or colour) with HIV, raises the potential, even if it is very small potential, for it to become an epidemic. If they are not testing for it, then there is a possibilty that they are unaware they are carriers and therefore putting others at risk, even if unintentional.

Disclaimer: I do not profess to be an expert and I know there are others such as Jim who are much better informed than me. I'm just putting another point of view.

.

[Disco Dan]

It's hardly a racist issue.

I can't give blood because I lived in the UK from '80 till '96, or whatever the cut off date is. And I have no issue with that, they don't want the risk of mad cow etc, and they don't want more HIV into this country then there already is.

It's a health issue, and it's for money reasons too. Like fuck the NZ tax payer is paying for someone to comes to NZ knowing they have HIV and expect to get free med care.

That's bollocks.

-Indy

Yeah some boat indy,

cant give blood because *mooooo* they think I have mad cows *moooo* If I could give blood here (I did in England) I would. I may need it back someday.

didnt have any tests done to get into the country... but I was shocked more with the "English Language Test" I had to *mooo* take to get into NZ... ermmm where am I from again... farks sake. 100% bloody english and they want to test ME? idiots.

Wrap your tools lads - akmeid may know dover :shutup: *moooooo*

[scracha]

My take on it...

I was curious about this and asked why... I mean surely a country should test for stuff like this. I was told the law was written in the 20's some time, and it has not been ammended yet for HIV..

I'm emigrated from the UK just over a year ago. Alongside the chest X-Rays we had to have HIV tests.

[scracha]

didnt have any tests done to get into the country... but I was shocked more with the "English Language Test" I had to *mooo* take to get into NZ... ermmm where am I from again... farks sake. 100% bloody english and they want to test ME? idiots.

Didn't you pass your GCSE english? I never had to take an "English Language Test". In fact, the rules state that if you're from a country where the 1st language is English you don't have to sit any English language proficiency tests.

[Disco Dan]

I'm emigrated from the UK just over a year ago. Alongside the chest X-Rays we had to have HIV tests.

ah yes the chest X-Rays, and blood test... people from a respectable country having to go through every test under the sun... but rock on up in a boat from 'HIV land' and welcome... heres you WINZ number...

I never sat my GSCE's ...why? well I was 13 years old when I emmigrated... so err no! It was 10 years ago.. all my family are English and ancesters etc are all English.. still had to sit the test. Rules obviously changed since then....

[scracha]

respectable country

The UK respectable?




ancesters etc are all English
Probably French, Viking and a bit of German for good measure then :-)

[Lias]

There should be NO free health services for recentmigrants, let alone expensive dollar HIV treatements.

Taxpayer funded health services should only support natural born citizens, and immigrant citiznes who have been here an extended period of time(say 5+ years). Make everyone else pay for it, tourists, foreign students, residents etc.

If your not a citizen, you shouldnt get any benefit from the citizens tax dollars.

[scracha]

There should be NO free health services for recentmigrants, let alone expensive dollar HIV treatements.

Taxpayer funded health services should only support natural born citizens, and immigrant citiznes who have been here an extended period of time(say 5+ years). Make everyone else pay for it, tourists, foreign students, residents etc.

If your not a citizen, you shouldnt get any benefit from the citizens tax dollars.

Lias, you can borrow my old Nazi avitar if you like.

So does that mean I'd get reduced tax and not have to pay fuggin ACC contributions for 5 years? If so, then fine. To be quite honest, with the exception of emergency medical treatment I'd bugger off back home if I developed some long term medical problem.

Unfortunately it's not just citizen's who pay tax dollars. To be honest, I think you'll find most immigrants are hard working and pump a lot of skills and therefore money into this economy.

Perhaps kiwi's abroad and doing their big OE should be denied medical treatment? A hell of a lot of kiwi's in the UK and Australia would be pretty much faked.

[Mr Merde]

.......In fact, the rules state that if you're from a country where the 1st language is English you don't have to sit any English language proficiency tests.

Have you been to the UK lately? Especially places like Bradford and Coventry.

I dont think this rule applies to this conglomeration of countries any more.

[Dave Lobster]

Have you been to the UK lately? Especially places like Bradford and Coventry.


And Leicester, Blackburn, Birmingham, Oldham, Burnley, Leeds, Barnsley, etc.

[Guitana]

Well we only have to look back a few years when a certain African musician touring NZ with his band shagged his way through a decent collection of solo mums and groupies knowing full well he was infected with the virus and not really giving a fuck as to who's lives he was fucking with!!!!

[justsomeguy]

Well we only have to look back a few years when a certain African musician touring NZ with his band shagged his way through a decent collection of solo mums and groupies knowing full well he was infected with the virus and not really giving a fuck as to who's lives he was fucking with!!!!

Well we only have to look back a few years when a decent collection of solo mums and groupies shagged a certain African musician touring NZ with his band without knowing fully well if he was infected with any viruses and not really giving a fuck as to who's lives they were fucking with!!!!

It takes two hands to clap.

[James Deuce]

As for HIV. With the size of the population, allowing emmigrants in (no matter what creed or colour) with HIV, raises the potential, even if it is very small potential, for it to become an epidemic. If they are not testing for it, then there is a possibilty that they are unaware they are carriers and therefore putting others at risk, even if unintentional.


The thing is most 1st gen immigrants who travel to another country with a different culture tend to establish enclaves or ghettos that reflect their own culture and language requirements, and cultural differences limit the interaction between the immigrant population and the locals.

Much like the Gay community who are experiencing a rise in HIV infection numbers tend socialise in different circles to the heteros.

HIV isn't tested at the border, but it will be picked up in any number of ways, from childbirth to a minor infection requiring a blood test.

[James Deuce]

Yap, sorry Jim2. You're right about the lack of compassion but I don't see this a race issue, its just as much an economic issue as animal quarantine.

I wasn't making a point about race, just ignorance and fear and the reactions it engenders in otherwise "right thinking" people.

The sky is NOT falling.

[justsomeguy]

The thing is most 1st gen immigrants who travel to another country with a different culture tend to establish enclaves or ghettos that reflect their own culture and language requirements, and cultural differences limit the interaction between the immigrant population and the locals.

Much like the Gay community who are experiencing a rise in HIV infection numbers tend socialise in different circles to the heteros.

HIV isn't tested at the border, but it will be picked up in any number of ways, from childbirth to a minor infection requiring a blood test.

I understand what you're saying - don't think there's really any right or wrong answer, just a decision to be made, as one has to do in such circumstances.

On one hand there is the moral issue of being compassionate, on the other the desire to safeguard the country by minimising the chances of this disease spreading, of which one way would be to prohibit people with the disease entering and thus increasing the amount of indigenous individuals infected .

So tell me Jimmy do we think with our head or our heart?

[James Deuce]

You think with your head. Immigrants should be tested for everything possible as a condition of permanent residency and each case assessed on its merit. At the very least this lets you know what sort of health costs you can expect to incur with each particular immigrant. But it costs money, and every time this issue pops up the cost of doing the testing gets in the way of the cost of not doing the testing because the great "NZ taxpayer" is an Ostrich voter, par excellence.

Smokers cost the country more than HIV/AIDS ever will and we haven't started shipping them to the Gulag - yet.

Actually diesel powered vehicles cause more avoidable deaths than immigrants and HIV/AIDS combined thanks to the carcinogenic nature of diesel exhaust particulates. About 400 a year I think.

[Dave Lobster]

Smokers cost the country more than HIV/AIDS ever will and we haven't started shipping them to the Gulag - yet.



Really? How much do smokers pay in in tax on their cigarettes, against how much they cost the country in health care?

How much do the drugs for AIDS cost, per immigrant?

[BAD DAD]

This is a "Rant or Rave" thread so stand back. Applied for a job lately? They want, they need , to know lot's about you including issues regarding health, residency, bla bla bla. Nothing to do with being nosey. It's more to do with making sure that you are up to the task. Apply for motorbike insurance, get a Gun license, adopt a child, rescue a gerbil from SPCA, it is all the same. They are just trying to establish that you are going to have a reasonable chance of of completing the contract without causing more harm than good.
If you invite someone into your country ( remember the thousands of lives sacrificed to protect this place in living memory ) you surely want to know that there is going to be some sort of net contribution and you surely want to know within reason how much that contribution is likely to be and if any contribution to society is going to come at any predictable cost.
Trust is earned, it isn't a right. If you"ve got fleas I want to know before I lend you my tent. It would be cheaper to sort out the fleas on you first than expect me to then buy flea powder for me and you and all of our respective infectees.

[James Deuce]

www.stats.govt.nz

Go do your own research, you lazy bugger.

[Guitana]

Well we only have to look back a few years when a decent collection of solo mums and groupies shagged a certain African musician touring NZ with his band without knowing fully well if he was infected with any viruses and not really giving a fuck as to who's lives they were fucking with!!!!

It takes two hands to clap.

I'm sure if they had of known he had aids it would'nt have been a problem!!
You'd be gutted if you knocked off some chick and then found out she was infected!!!!
He knew he had the virus and still infected those women knowing full well that they may die from the infection!! He should've been convicted of murder cos that's what he gave those girls a death sentence!!!

[Guitana]

Oh yeah lets just welcome all those dirty aids infected fuckers in and bend over and let them all fuck us up the shitter!!!!
Cant be any different to voting Labour I spose!!!!

[Hillbilly]

Don't forget that in many African cultures, there is the belief that in order to get rid of the HIV/AIDS virus you must have sex with a very young virgin.

[Guitana]

Don't forget that in many African cultures, there is the belief that in order to get rid of the HIV/AIDS virus you must have sex with a very young virgin.

LOCK UP YOUR DAUGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!

[dickytoo]

It's a can of worms surely.

Do we test:
- anyone from Asia for bird flu,
- anyone from the middle east for Islamic suicidal tendancies,
- anyone of 'white' heritage to ensure the browning of NZ continues,
- anyone from America for any brain power ?
- anyone with a motorcycle licence for deviant behaviour ?

OOps.....just kidding, but a can of worms never the less.

you missed out mad cow's disease for those coming from the old country!:eek::D


Oops, i see this has already been raised - sorry!

[Guitana]

you missed out mad cow's disease for those coming from the old country!:eek::D


Oops, i see this has already been raised - sorry!

Most English Women are MAD COWS!!!

[dickytoo]

Most English Women are MAD COWS!!!

you're not talking about the person who lives at the end of south makara road, are you? she is indeed the maddest of the mad cows i know! (and engrish as well!) :shutup:

[Fat Tony]

I'm emigrated from the UK just over a year ago. Alongside the chest X-Rays we had to have HIV tests.

Yeah, my wife and I had to have the tests when we looked in to moving to NZ a few years back. Health screening is the sensible thing to do in my opinion. The UK's been TB free for years but cases are now being reported again... coincidence that it's occured with the influx of people from countries with high TB rates?

[Guitana]

Yeah, my wife and I had to have the tests when we looked in to moving to NZ a few years back. Health screening is the sensible thing to do in my opinion. The UK's been TB free for years but cases are now being reported again... coincidence that it's occured with the influx of people from countries with high TB rates?

TB Free???? Tony Blairs still the PM last I heard!!!!

[Fat Tony]

TB Free???? Tony Blairs still the PM last I heard!!!!

LOL, yup, and still f***ing the country over :angry:

[scracha]

He knew he had the virus and still infected those women knowing full well that they may die from the infection!! He should've been convicted of murder cos that's what he gave those girls a death sentence!!!

The other issue is that many kiwi burds are mucky cows and let random guys ride them bareback. STD/STI rates here are very very high. The schools and nightclubs here should be handing out our little rubber friends by the dozen but no doubt the moral minority believe that $hite about "oh my gawd, they'll have sex if we give them condoms".

The "she'll be right" saying was never more innappropriate.

[Guitana]

[QUOTE=scracha;966478]The other issue is that many kiwi burds are mucky cows and let random guys ride them bareback.

Do you have any of their phone numbers??????????

[Mr Merde]

[quote=Guitana;966862][quote=scracha;966478]The other issue is that many kiwi burds are mucky cows and let random guys ride them bareback.



So how does one become RANDOM ??

[Guitana]

[quote=Guitana;966862][quote=scracha;966478]The other issue is that many kiwi burds are mucky cows and let random guys ride them bareback.



So how does one become RANDOM ??

Just turn up !!!!

[scracha]

[QUOTE=Mr Merde;967183][quote=Guitana;966862]
Just turn up !!!!
If you speak with a foreign accent, are clever enough to tie your own shoelaces and turn up at a party with alcohol then you'll attract mucky burds like flies to shite.

[Lou Girardin]

I'm more concerned at the increase in cases of drug resistant TB, typhoid and all the other lurgy's making a comeback in our fair land.
At least I can choose not to fuck an immigrant, it's a bit tougher to avoid them coughing up a lung, or making my burger.

[Kittyhawk]

If people work, pay taxes etc...then they have a right to apply to come into New Zealand.

But it is a different scenario if they aren't wanting to work and just want to come over.

[Skyryder]

Well we only have to look back a few years when a decent collection of solo mums and groupies shagged a certain African musician touring NZ with his band without knowing fully well if he was infected with any viruses and not really giving a fuck as to who's lives they were fucking with!!!!

It takes two hands to clap.

And so many in this country are listening for the sound of 'one' hand clapping, with plugs in there ears.