Windows Vista [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

James Deuce

4th March 2007, 09:14

Its still a piece of shit. I have had the luxury of all the search gadgets etc on the mac for years now

O yes and just so we are on the same page I dont have to have the greatest and latest mac to run os 10.4 or 10.5 for that matter. Actualy im running it on a G4 build almost 3 years ago and its still faster than the piece of shit windows xp machine my wife has that run the latest and greatest hardware of 1 year ago

The idea wasn't to start a mac/windows war. I've worked with both and in the right environment both O/Ses have their place.

However setup XP badly and it will run like shit. Setup OS X badly and it will run like shit. Setup Debian Woody badly and it will run like shit. See the theme?

OS X has the benefit of being built on a platform where rights management and file system objects where designed, not grown in response to client demand, or some developement cell's great idea. BSD Unix has been peer reviewed by some huge brains and competent techies for decades. Windows started with bits of code thrown away by Xerox and IBM.

Microsoft has an inertia in the Corporate and Home market that you can't deny. From my personal perspective Apple hardware has only just hit a level of flexibility that makes it attractive for a "fiddler" like me, but the price is still too inflated to make it a serious option. Don't start going all eMac and Powerbook on me either, they're both horrible outside of their intended market.

If you guys haven't got anything to add, don't say anything.

I'm trying to get a feel for perceptions of Vista, not "XP is shitty", and "Mac's rule". If you do want to go down that path, at least try and be original, though given how often that muck has been raked over, there can;t many many new and interesting comments to make.

John Banks

4th March 2007, 09:23

Microsoft has an inertia in the Corporate and Home market that you can't deny. From my personal perspective Apple hardware has only just hit a level of flexibility that makes it attractive for a "fiddler" like me, but the price is still too inflated to make it a serious option. Don't start going all eMac and Powerbook on me either, they're both horrible outside of their intended market.

Actually, I very recently got a MacBook. The price was very similar (if not cheaper) to PC notebooks with the same hardware. As for Vista, I'll do a brief rundown of points I don't like about it:

1. User Access Control. The most annoying and obtrusive security system ever designed.
2. They completely rewrote the sound system. This means that when my frame rate drops in a game, the sound starts to stutter.
3. I have an AMD 64 3000+ that runs at 2000MHz. For some reason, even though Vista SAYS it is 2000MHz, it is only running at 800MHz. Probably driver issues. Again.
4. Windows Activation: Pirates now have a key generator that will generate random keys so they can activate Vista. This means that there's a chance that a key you buy from the store will already be activated. In fact, I already know someone who has had this problem. He called up Microsoft, and they accused him of piracy. Now he has a version of Windows that doesn't work.

and the reason to upgrade? It looks prettier.

The_Dover

4th March 2007, 09:23

RT527

4th March 2007, 09:26

well said Jim..I havent had much if no trouble from Win xp pro, It runs my games and all that and you guys should see the new Hi Def Games coming out soon with DX 10, unfortunatly you need to have vista to use DX 10, although they say that it is possible to run DX 10 on xp ....just that they wont do it.

Anyways when you see a game where a soldier is crawling through under growth .....and I mean grass blades and leaves /branches moving aside as you go it looks way better than anything thats out there at the moment.

Bring on the gaming of the future.

And its a market thing ....if you want great looking games you will buy the best Hardware and Software to run it(imo Vista is going to be awesome for games)...if you want to edit music and movies you will buy a Mac.

I have no agendas for or against windows/Mac os.

Coyote

4th March 2007, 09:27

So you're a fan of Dilbert?

James Deuce

4th March 2007, 09:43

John Banks

4th March 2007, 09:47

I don't care. But thanks for the other salient points.

You may not care, but saying that Apples are always more expensive isn't quite true anymore.

scracha

4th March 2007, 11:27

1. User Access Control. The most annoying and obtrusive security system ever designed.

They've revised some of the default settings from the final release candidate to the actually released software. The level of "nagginess" is completely (and easily) configurable in the admin tools.

4. Windows Activation: Pirates now have a key generator that will generate random keys so they can activate Vista.

Supposedly they don't even have to. The boxed versions of Vista have license keys on the outside so they're just going in with camera phones and snapping the license keys :innocent:

and the reason to upgrade? It looks prettier.
Acutally there's a lot. The kernel security is miles better. All apps are properly sandboxed with varying levels of authentication (ala linux). If you buy enterprise or ultime then you get the option of a properly encrypted hard drive. The backup now actually works...there's now no reason to buy Norton Ghost or Acronis products. The firewall now works for incoming and outgoing packets and is very configurable. I can quickly define group security policies to stop users playing solitaire or using skype during working hours. The contextual help, contextual searching & system recovery are now miles better (more so than the Mac at the moment).

From a sysadmin POV, all 5 versions of Vista can fit on and be installed from a 4GB USB key. The installation options can now be (ala linux) stored in an XML file(s) on the USB too.

Doesn't matter whether or not we like it. Within a couple of years 9/10 of desktops will be using it.

Disco Dan

4th March 2007, 11:51

What use is an OS that needs 1gig of RAM to even function at an acceptable speed?

It's a pig. It looks pretty but is fucking horrible to use. What the hell is it doing with all those system resources?

have a look at how much RAM winxp uses with no programs running, and how much Vista uses... you need 513mb of RAM just to click start on Vista. Shows the speeds and how much more powerful a computer you need to even run this OS than what is available to the average home user.

My experience with Windows Vista so far:

*delete file*
Vista: Do you want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: *screen goes black* Do you really want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: Do you really really want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: Ok. *deletes file*
Me: So, uh... how much are Macs going for these days?

My experience is very similar, the blank screen and "do you really want to do that" over and over... aparently some sort of 'protection' against people buggering up imortant settings on your computer... ...pah.. yeah because only people that know what their doing can click "OK" ...vistas a joke.

They have only just cought upto OS-X in terms of aesthetics and userinterfaces... next Apple OS due out soon... :yes:

My advice? Wait 6 months for all the bugs and drivers to be ironed out properlly and the cost of hardware capable to run it reaches a economically friendly price bracket then put Vista on. Until then... let those that use all of their disposible income on computers play with it...

Sorry folks.. just looks like a OS-X wannabe, im sticking with my mac.

bluninja

4th March 2007, 11:54

Out of the box Cisco VPN client 4.6.00.0045 just doesn't work on Vista, or even with the windows firewall turned off.

Activesync is now replaced by Mobile Device Centre in beta and that doesn't work for some PDA's that suggest it's a driver problem. My PDA works, my MD's doesn't on the same hardware base.

If you add in Office 2007, how do you get all your clients/partners/customers to install the viewers so they can read your XML based docs/spreadsheets etc?

Jeremy

4th March 2007, 12:28

Actually, I very recently got a MacBook. The price was very similar (if not cheaper) to PC notebooks with the same hardware. As for Vista, I'll do a brief rundown of points I don't like about it:

1. User Access Control. The most annoying and obtrusive security system ever designed.
2. They completely rewrote the sound system. This means that when my frame rate drops in a game, the sound starts to stutter.
3. I have an AMD 64 3000+ that runs at 2000MHz. For some reason, even though Vista SAYS it is 2000MHz, it is only running at 800MHz. Probably driver issues. Again.
4. Windows Activation: Pirates now have a key generator that will generate random keys so they can activate Vista. This means that there's a chance that a key you buy from the store will already be activated. In fact, I already know someone who has had this problem. He called up Microsoft, and they accused him of piracy. Now he has a version of Windows that doesn't work.

and the reason to upgrade? It looks prettier.

The CPU running at 800MHz is probably because it's down shifted because of cool and quiet and doesn't need to run any faster.

John Banks

4th March 2007, 12:32

The CPU running at 800MHz is probably because it's down shifted because of cool and quiet and doesn't need to run any faster.

Cool and quiet is disabled and the benchmark (when it's under stress) reports 800MHz.

imdying

4th March 2007, 13:56

What use is an OS that needs 1gig of RAM to even function at an acceptable speed?That is borderline moronic... How about, what use is an OS that needs 640k of RAM to even function at an acceptable speed?? Equally moronic. A gig of ram is $100, stop your bitching.

Zapf

4th March 2007, 14:10

Hay Jim,
Have you read this before? http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Cheers
Zapf

Meathorse

4th March 2007, 16:21

I get the same feeling from Vista that I got from XP when it first came out - dumbed down and tries to hold your hand too much.

Saying that, I went to a MS reseller presentation last week and from all appearances (although they never said it), they've purposely messed up the layout and ease of use of the UI to force people to use the new search function on the start menu. Why they couldn't just leave the menu/folder structure the same and include the cool new search as well - people will naturally move to the better system!

As a desktop replacement for XP it's pretty sad however where Vista really shines is when it's tied up with MS's new server systems that they've released - in particular Sharepoint Server, Groove and so on. Some very cool stuff that allows a business to keep their IT resources and shared property (docs, emails etc) self managed and organised.

*I received no payments or donations from MS to post this comment! :dodge:

imdying

4th March 2007, 17:42

I get the same feeling from Vista that I got from XP when it first came out - dumbed down and tries to hold your hand too much.

Saying that, I went to a MS reseller presentation last week and from all appearances (although they never said it), they've purposely messed up the layout and ease of use of the UI to force people to use the new search function on the start menu. Why they couldn't just leave the menu/folder structure the same and include the cool new search as well - people will naturally move to the better system!You give people too much credit. The majority of pc users know as little as possible about driving a pc, and that's all they want to know. That's why they dumb it down, and why they had to change the menu/folder structure. People do no naturally move to better systems, people don't even experiment with things, they just do what they know works! A lot of people are still scared of computers! Honestly, people are pathetic.

The_Dover

4th March 2007, 21:46

That is borderline moronic... How about, what use is an OS that needs 640k of RAM to even function at an acceptable speed?? Equally moronic. A gig of ram is $100, stop your bitching.

You're calling me moronic?

You think it's acceptable to need a high spec PC just to be able to switch the fucker on?

I bought a new medium spec laptop on boxing day. Out of the box it can barely boot up on Vista. I bought more RAM you fucking cock. But should I really have needed to just to use a web browser?

I bet you're one of these cocks that think Unkle Heilens vision of the future is the way forward too? I expect all govt depts will be using Vista by the end of the month.

Dave Lobster

5th March 2007, 10:57

Doesn't Vista do something with copyrights and whatnot, so you can't play downloaded music?

Ixion

5th March 2007, 11:27

DRM? Yes, it does. Just how invasive that will be is still waiting to be seen

vifferman

5th March 2007, 11:41

What the hell is it doing with all those system resources?
Taking over the world?
Controlling your computer?
Planning world domination?
Running distributed processing for Micro$oft?

vifferman

5th March 2007, 11:47

My experience with Windows Vista so far:

*delete file*
Vista: Do you want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: *screen goes black* Do you really want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: Do you really really want to do that?
Me: Yes.
Vista: Ok. *deletes file*
Me: So, uh... how much are Macs going for these days?
Heh heh...

I worked with a guy a few years ago whose supervisor complained that his programs didn't have enough safety checks. So he rewrote it so every time you answered "Yes" to "Are you sure you want to delete this file?", it added another "really" in front of the "sure", i.e.:
"Are you really sure you want to delete this file?"
> Yes
"Are you really really sure you want to delete this file?"
> Yes
"Are you really really really sure you want to delete this file?"
etc....

Eventually, of course, the user would type "No", when the program would reply:
"I thought so."
and exit the program.

FWIW, the company I work for is a Microsoft Developer site (or whatever they're called - can't be bothered running downstairs to look at the plaque). They're currently redeveloping all our S/W for Vista. I for one am dreading the upgrade on my PC, especially given the groans and moans I've heard around the place.

Flyingpony

5th March 2007, 12:02

limbimtimwim

5th March 2007, 12:07

Vista users are reporting have better relationships with their spouses since the upgrade.

It is thought that this is because in comparison with Vista, their spouses seem less annoying

"I thought my wife was a bitch till I used Vista" - Steve Newton, criminal mastermind, Melbourne AU

"When I go home, I look forward to the lack of questions from my criminal attorney wife" - Sam Johns, autopilot designer, New York USA

"When my hands get chopped off by my homicidal husband I'll be glad because because then I won't use Vista anymore" - Sally Symes, guitar maintenance guru, Brighton UK

pete376403

5th March 2007, 14:41

Doesn't Vista do something with copyrights and whatnot, so you can't play downloaded music?

Yes, see Zapf's post #20 with the link to Peter Guttmans article

The_Dover

5th March 2007, 16:50

No, just your statement is borderline moronic.
Two small things, you don't need a 'high spec pc' to switch it on. Of course, given that you're a computer noob (pretty safe presumption based on what you've posted so far), your idea of high spec might be different to someone who knows about computers. You should also note that this is a pattern that has been followed over every major Windows release... most computers of the day struggle off the bat.
Errr, I think the 'fucking cock' would be the man who (and take your pick, not all of these need apply even though they probably do)
- Brought a new PC knowing that a new operating system was coming...
- Brought a copy of Vista to 'use a web browser'
- Installed an OS he didn't even need (XP has a web browser you know...)
Not at all, but I suspect you're one of those cocks who has no vision of the future, makes snap judgements based on the very small amount of knowledge you have, and really shouldn't whinge about things you don't understand.

You are a fuckwit man.

You base your assumption of my PC knowledge on the fact that
a) I think it's criminal that a modern operating system should be such a bloated fucking pig.

Imagine if a modern airliner needed a crew of 50 to transport 25 paying passenger? Do you think any airlines would buy them?

b) I bought a new laptop knowing a new OS was about to be released.

I had no intention of upgrading to Vista you fuckhead, I haven't paid for it, and I bought a new laptop because my PC died and I couldn't be fucked rebuilding it. It was Christmas and I wanted to communicate with my family in the UK, face to face.

c) I installed an OS that I didn't need.

I figured it was free and I could evaluate it to be used on the workstations in my office. It wont be getting used suffice to say.

You are obviously one of these geeks that masturbates over every new hardware release when in fact a fucking 5-6 year old PC will suffice for your average user.

If you think Vista is the way the future should be then you are borderline retarded.

Unfortunately, as with previous OS releases it will be forced upon us like a cop on a teenage girl. However, I have never installed any prior release of windows and watched it grind along like this heap of shit did.

Explain why my statement was moronic you fucking knob end????

It's an operating system, the least it should do on modern day hardware is fucking operate. It's like an asthmatic, one legged marathon runner with blisters and a lack of access to ventolin.

It's shit.

imdying

5th March 2007, 17:16

You are a fuckwit man.Well, can't deny that can I... I mean, it takes one to know one, and I guess you've got me down pat.

You base your assumption of my PC knowledge on the fact that
a) I think it's criminal that a modern operating system should be such a bloated fucking pig.Yep, you've apparently got very little comprehension of what a bloated fucking pig really is... Do you remember your last OS? XP was it? Do you remember when that came out? Most machines didn't even have 128MB... only 'high spec' ones were around that, and even then plenty weren't... Do you remember how crap XP ran on anything less than 256 (or lets face it, 512mb).

Imagine if a modern airliner needed a crew of 50 to transport 25 paying passenger? Do you think any airlines would buy them?I think I know what you're getting at... and yes, in case you're wondering, you're showing your extreme shortsightedness yet again.

I had no intention of upgrading to Vista you fuckhead, I haven't paid for it, and I bought a new laptop because my PC died and I couldn't be fucked rebuilding it. It was Christmas and I wanted to communicate with my family in the UK, face to face.Oh noes! Your free operating system doesn't do what you want... gee, what a rip off :rolleyes:

I figured it was free and I could evaluate it to be used on the workstations in my office. It wont be getting used suffice to say.Fair enough.

when in fact a fucking 5-6 year old PC will suffice for your average user.Heh, get this...So will a 5-6 year old operating system!

If you think Vista is the way the future should be then you are borderline retarded.Again, you shouldn't really comment on things (grossly) outside your area of knowledge.

Unfortunately, as with previous OS releases it will be forced upon us like a cop on a teenage girl. However, I have never installed any prior release of windows and watched it grind along like this heap of shit did.Either you've never been an early adopter, weed has fucked your memory, or you're a liar.

Explain why my statement was moronic you fucking knob end????But you already know why....

James Deuce

5th March 2007, 17:56

You can turn off the file deletion protection, but for those of you who have complained about it and not done anything about turning it off, I'd suggest leaving it on just in case you do a mass .dll deletion, and then call the support guy and abuse the fuck out of him for not being able to save you from your own stupidity.

As for the slagging match.

For GOD'S sake children grow UP! Macs are good for some stuff, PCs for other, and Vista is going to be an administrators dream, especially compared to XP.

MOTOXXX

5th March 2007, 21:09

how do you find it with roaming profiles.

i installed it on a test pc at one of my larger clients and couldnt get 3 of the main applications they use to work on it.

James Deuce

5th March 2007, 21:16

Been messing with RIS servers to distribute different OSes (RIS on the following Virtual Servers - Win 2K Server Std, Ent, Data Centre; Server 2003, Std & Ent) and trying to mix it up to see what works on the (virtual again - Win 2K, XP Pro, Vista Bus.) workstation end.

Only thing that works reliably is Vista Business Ed. and Office 2007 - surprise, surprise. Very early days yet though, though the unattended install process is a lot easier to customise than Windows 2000 for example, and you can go well beyond the GPC scope in terms of setting user rights on PCs.

Haven't tried Roaming Profiles yet.

Brian d marge

6th March 2007, 03:08

Not so long ago: Windows NT4sp6 used 17mb out of the available 192mb RAM :mellow:

MS has gone downhill since.

Whilst I'm going to make the move to Linux at home (upgrading from Windows 2000), I'll continue to work with MS Windows because it brings in my bread and butter.

Aint that the truth

Though I am relearning Cad ..and it will be 100 % windows free

I use ,,Xp Win 2000 and Ubuntu

I am not a computer person ..I switch on type in tokyo-247 err pron err ..work related important stuff and it works ,, or I throw my toys

Win 2000 works ok .. cant go to russia .com or its reload time ...same with Xp

Installing programs a breeze with Xp 90 % ok with ubuntu ..

Crashes.. ( This linux has been running cotinuously for a week an locked a programe once .. when I loaded up te chp to much ,,and I couldnt be arsed waiting so hit the reset..) Window ,,, once a day , or once evey 2 days , ..restart ( but its pretty ok if u use Ms software ,,,)

Verdict windows IS easy to use ...but once you have a bit of knowledge ubuntu is awesome ...

Vista ,,, well at 25 000 yen compared with ubuntu free ...( ubuntu does take a bit of work sometimes )

I will trade the money for the box ...Sorry windows ..but as the market of computer shy people die away .... so will the market

With hand on heart , as a computer UN intelligencia ... sticking with Ubuntu ...

OR buy a mac ( not that I have tried one ) ...

I watch this space carefully ...I will be interested in MS market share ....

STEPHEN

scracha

6th March 2007, 05:46

in particular Sharepoint Server, Groove and so on. Some very cool stuff that allows a business to keep their IT resources and shared property (docs, emails etc) self managed and organised.

Hmm, I thought Groove looked like a white elephant. Too expensive for SME's (they'll just use FTP, synctoy or some type of bittorrent client) and not really good enough for enterprise level (who'll just use hardware VNC).

As for Sharepoint, it's not actually much different to version 1. A lot of the features can only work with MS Office documents too. The "workflow" stuff is too complicated for most customers and if they're going to bring in a programmer/consultant to do the work then I very much doubt whether the programmer/consultant will use that particular forms based tool. Cut down version of Access/Foxpro IMHO

James Deuce

6th March 2007, 06:50

Aint that the truth

Though I am relearning Cad ..and it will be 100 % windows free

I use ,,Xp Win 2000 and Ubuntu

I am not a computer person ..I switch on type in tokyo-247 err pron err ..work related important stuff and it works ,, or I throw my toys

Win 2000 works ok .. cant go to russia .com or its reload time ...same with Xp

Installing programs a breeze with Xp 90 % ok with ubuntu ..

Crashes.. ( This linux has been running cotinuously for a week an locked a programe once .. when I loaded up te chp to much ,,and I couldnt be arsed waiting so hit the reset..) Window ,,, once a day , or once evey 2 days , ..restart ( but its pretty ok if u use Ms software ,,,)

Verdict windows IS easy to use ...but once you have a bit of knowledge ubuntu is awesome ...

Vista ,,, well at 25 000 yen compared with ubuntu free ...( ubuntu does take a bit of work sometimes )

I will trade the money for the box ...Sorry windows ..but as the market of computer shy people die away .... so will the market

With hand on heart , as a computer UN intelligencia ... sticking with Ubuntu ...

OR buy a mac ( not that I have tried one ) ...

I watch this space carefully ...I will be interested in MS market share ....

STEPHEN

At the risk of getting grumpier and grumpier I don't care about Ubuntu, or the fact that you find it better for your own personal use - that's good, particularly at that price break. The majority of businesses can't afford the massive downturn in productivity while thousands of technophobic staff learn how to use a new OS, and in a couple of cases have to replace or retrain 30-40 development staff who maintain some pretty important applications.

I wasn't looking to engender discussion on the comparative merits of a variety of OSes, but you guys just can't leave it alone.

It's Microsoft, so it must be shot down in flames instantly, jeez I may as well just join the Police Force and get it over with.

Microsoft pays my bills, and I'm interested in other people's experiences with Vista, particularly in the Corporate environment.

James Deuce

6th March 2007, 06:52

Hmm, I thought Groove looked like a white elephant. Too expensive for SME's (they'll just use FTP, synctoy or some type of bittorrent client) and not really good enough for enterprise level (who'll just use hardware VNC).

As for Sharepoint, it's not actually much different to version 1. A lot of the features can only work with MS Office documents too. The "workflow" stuff is too complicated for most customers and if they're going to bring in a programmer/consultant to do the work then I very much doubt whether the programmer/consultant will use that particular forms based tool. Cut down version of Access/Foxpro IMHO

Dead right - I use Sharepoint for documentation management for two clients because the specified it, and it does the job, but I've never seen anyone use the whiteboard function or do anything like workflow management. Just looking at upgrading one client to the latest version.

idleidolidyll

6th March 2007, 07:07

What is it again, $750 for Vista to replace my XP Pro?

XP was never really right, nor was Millenium, 98, 97, 95 etc etc

I'm truly over Microshaft.

Any suggestions on the best Linux Software that will run an emulator so I can keep my bought and paid for Photoshop, Accounting software etc?

James Deuce

6th March 2007, 07:17

Bugger, I can't find the sit on it and spin smilie.

Start your own damn thread if you've got nothing to add.

idleidolidyll

6th March 2007, 07:23

riffer

6th March 2007, 07:24

Ah Jim, welcome to my world.

The majority of my work is for Telecom, and Xtra in particular.

I face the same problems. However, Telecom put food on my table.

At the end of the day, I bet the majority of people bitching about Vista have no experience in using it in a professional environment.

As a drummer you must know how it is about the empty vessel making the biggest noise...

imdying

6th March 2007, 07:51

is it any good for porn?
Hi definition baby!

What is it again, $750 for Vista to replace my XP Pro?

XP was never really right, nor was Millenium, 98, 97, 95 etc etc

I'm truly over Microshaft.

Any suggestions on the best Linux Software that will run an emulator so I can keep my bought and paid for Photoshop, Accounting software etc?
I heartily recommend you try linux :yes: Compared to the price/longevity out of tyres, $750 is a bargain for something that'll do you another 5-7 years.

Nothing to add?
Windows releases have NEVER lived up to the bullshit hype that precedes them.
Every new release has promised awesome security and the most stable platform ever. None have ever delivered, why should I pay another $750 just to be disappointed again?

I reckon opting out of the bloatware cycle is entirely relevant and I ask again: What is the best Linux Platform on which I can run an emulator and continue with my photographic/design work?Bloatware? Windows has to be built to run for noobs, like you. If you weren't a noob, you'd know how to debloat it... as it's really quite easy. The majority of the 'unnecessary' functions that bloat it, you either don't install at all, or stop the services that run them. Noobs don't want to hawve to figure out how to make everything go... hell most people couldn't even tell you what more than a handful of windows services do, thus why Windows has 95% of stuff running from the get go, and Linux, being the opposite, is still even after all these years, run by bugger all people. Security isn't a problem for anyone with half a brain. If it's so bad, then go alter the homepage for someone like the houseoftravel.co.nz... it's just a windows box... go on, hack it. Take it down... do something to it... But no, you can't, because security isn't the issue you think it is.

idleidolidyll

6th March 2007, 08:02

another young punk opens mouth and sticks foot in: noob? rotflmfao, I was using and modifying windows when you were still in nappies (3.1)

please, grow a brain and try to reply without making ridiculous assumptions

Joni

6th March 2007, 08:10

Verdict windows IS easy to use ...but once you have a bit of knowledge ubuntu is awesome ...Yup my company is currently looking at doing every thing open source... Linux and Ubuntu will be the new catch phrases around here pretty soon.

I've checked Ubuntu out Brian, looks pretty good at first and second glance... will see what happens when roll out happens *gulp*

skelstar

6th March 2007, 08:34

another young punk opens mouth
Honestly mate, you don't have to be here (KB land) for very long to workout who the angry posters are. Sometimes they are just looking for a fight and its best to ignore them.

Meathorse

6th March 2007, 08:37

This old joke of Windows being unstable and crashing often really fucks me off. Since Win2k onwards, there has never been a more stable version of Windows, in my experience the only time 2k or XP crashes will be caused by one of the following:

Faulty hardware - this will cause any OS to look bad and is more common than most people realise
Faulty drivers - Most common early on in an OS's life
Faulty programs - software either badly written or forced to run on the new OS with no official support or patch to fix the problems

My system runs happily for 20+ days at a time (XP) - with the only time I need to restart being the occasional patch the requires it. Don't think I use it like a pussy either - I game on it most nights, surf/email, occasionally encode video & audio, a bit of photo editing, burn discs, and it runs 24/7... no problems, no worries - oh yeah and 512MB RAM is absolute Min for XP, 1GB for Vista... and no Celeron/Sempron's either! :Punk:

idleidolidyll

6th March 2007, 08:41

Honestly mate, you don't have to be here (KB land) for very long to workout who the angry posters are. Sometimes they are just looking for a fight and its best to ignore them.

i've noticed that relative youth is a major indicator followed by a propensity to put their own words in other people's mouths regardless of their knowledge of the other's experience/knowledge

sAsLEX

6th March 2007, 08:43

- Installed an OS he didn't even need (XP has a web browser you know...)

Most laptop shops ie dell come with it preinstalled so your options there are few.

I hate Vista to be honest. It is slow, slower with over twice the ram my PC has running bugger all.

It fuckin struggles to play music when that the only thing your asking of it, skipping and stalling periodically.

I have had it crash for no apparent reason about ten times in only a few hours use.

It uses 50% of 2 gig of ram using My Computer!

And no solitare or minesweeped preinstalled.... wankers! Though it appears these can be DL.

idleidolidyll

6th March 2007, 08:43

My system runs happily for 20+ days at a time

20 days is considered a 'stable platform'?

gasp

Ixion

6th March 2007, 09:23

,, the only time 2k or XP crashes will be caused by one of the following:

Faulty hardware - this will cause any OS to look bad and is more common than most people realise
Faulty drivers - Most common early on in an OS's life
Faulty programs - software either badly written or forced to run on the new OS with no official support or patch to fix the problems

,,

Well, yes, there's not really a lot else , is there. It's hardware, or drivers, or software. Bound to be :rofl:

riffer

6th March 2007, 09:44

Well, yes, there's not really a lot else , is there. It's hardware, or drivers, or software. Bound to be :rofl:

You forgot input (operator) error. :mellow:

James Deuce

6th March 2007, 09:45

Nothing to add?
Windows releases have NEVER lived up to the bullshit hype that precedes them.
Every new release has promised awesome security and the most stable platform ever. None have ever delivered, why should I pay another $750 just to be disappointed again?

I reckon opting out of the bloatware cycle is entirely relevant and I ask again: What is the best Linux Platform on which I can run an emulator and continue with my photographic/design work?

You're missing the point. I don't actually care about anyone's opinions about "better" alternatives. Some of us have to work within the constraints demanded by our job.

If you want to ask about what Linux platform to run, start a thread asking that. This thread is about Windows Vista.

Mind you a search would reveal that there is no "best" Linux build. You need to investigate what build would best suit you. That is the beauty of the Open Source world. You get to choose, but that can cut 2 ways. I run Solaris 10 because I have to do a little bit of Solaris 10 support at work for backup software.

Ixion

6th March 2007, 09:46

Well, I'd argue that input error shouldn't be able to crash the system, unless there's a fault in the software.

Disco Dan

6th March 2007, 09:59

I have a full unopened copy of RED HAT if anyone wants it?

geesh anythings better than actually paying microsoft to fark your computer up its own arse.

John Banks

6th March 2007, 17:09

Dover is completely right. An OS is supposed to let you use your bloody computer. You shouldn't have to 'tweak' it just so you use the software you paid for.
Requiring 1GB of RAM and taking up 512MB of that is also ridiculous. I mean, most laptops and computers on the market now come with either 512MB or 1GB. Not only do you need to run the operating system, you need to load other programs to actually do work on top of that.

bluninja

6th March 2007, 23:40

I find a bottle or of Viejo Crianza 1991 Reserva makes working on my home PC that much more pleasant.

As for all the other crap.....I suggest you all start riding around on Honda C90's. Why do you need all that electricity and fuel just to start an overpriced litre bike ??

Talk about thread hijacking!!

hurricane_r

7th March 2007, 00:49

vista is nice, then again, so is everthing you dont have to* pay for :D

Squeak the Rat

7th March 2007, 07:18

Well that thread fell well short of it's intention and potential. For once i thought reading kb could be justified as work research, stoopid me. :slap:

Like it or lump it, and regardless of opinions of microsloth, those of us who work in a corporate environment will be having to use this sooner or later. Some feedback from people doing this already would have be well cool.

imdying

7th March 2007, 08:24

Requiring 1GB of RAM and taking up 512MB of that is also ridiculous. I mean, most laptops and computers on the market now come with either 512MB or 1GB. Not only do you need to run the operating system, you need to load other programs to actually do work on top of that.
I gotta ask... did you think that XP, requiring 128MB of RAM and taking up 256 was also ridiculous when it first came out... given that you were well lucky to even have 128MB when XP came out?

Ixion

7th March 2007, 08:30

I gotta ask... did you think that XP, requiring 128MB of RAM and taking up 256 was also ridiculous when it first came out... given that you were well lucky to even have 128MB when XP came out?

Yes. Yes I did. Still do.

imdying

7th March 2007, 08:47

Yes. Yes I did. Still do.And yet funnily enough, it stopped being 'ridiculous' and long long time ago. RAM is cheap, nuff said..

The_Dover

7th March 2007, 09:18

And yet funnily enough, it stopped being 'ridiculous' and long long time ago. RAM is cheap, nuff said..

Half a gig for an operating system is criminal.

Nuff said.

Scouse

7th March 2007, 10:23

It's an operating system, the least it should do on modern day hardware is fucking operate. It's like an asthmatic, one legged marathon runner with blisters and a lack of access to ventolin.It's shit.So you dont like vista then Ben..?

scracha

7th March 2007, 13:07

Yep. Can the linux and OS-X kiddiscripters stop hijacking the tread. It's truly pointless. I could easily highlight a dozen aspects of Vista that would compel users to choose it over OS-X or linux.

Regards to it being "bloatware". Well, developers want an easier job of programming so if an OS has more features, API's and 3rd party drivers then it'll get "bloated". This normally results in faster development time, cheaper software and more stability. Who cares if it requires 1GB and a core duo. In one or two year's time that will be (at least) what most users are running. Contrary to common thought, Microsoft aren't stupid enough to think that most people will upgrade to Vista within the first couple of years so they've obviously developed an OS with better hardware requirements in mind.

FYI, Vista Ultimate (the one with all the Aero interface and all the other bells and whistles) runs at a useable speed on one of my old machines (3 year old Sempron 2400 with 512MB and a 128MB 9600 graphics card). For sure, it doesn't run as fast as when I boot it up from a DSL distro but then again it's got SLIGHTLY more features and just a FEW more applications

scracha

7th March 2007, 13:22

Half a gig for an operating system is criminal.
Nuff said.

Yeah, folk said that about the 8KB ones "back in the day"

Scouse

7th March 2007, 13:33

I thought that Millenium was great it ran on my old first generation pentium 160mmx very well never once had a blue screen of death from it and it seemed to have all the hardware drivers I needed already imbedded within

skelstar

7th March 2007, 13:59

I recall a friend trying to get WinMe going and the first thing it said was: "there are no drivers available for your Modem...you can find new drivers on the internet" :shit:

Paraphrased of course

Scouse

7th March 2007, 14:05

I never had that problem mind you back then my modem was a 1996 28Kbps isa slot modem

The_Dover

7th March 2007, 14:06

The future is looking grim for you...

Not really, I've got 1.5 gig of ram in my laptop now and the bloatware is running farily well.

But why does it seem to crash and hang when I leave it on overnight with nothing but a web browser open?

Must be the quality programming.

Squeak the Rat

7th March 2007, 14:12

But why does it seem to crash and hang when I leave it on overnight with nothing but a web browser open?

It's v1.0, aka the price you pay for being an early adopter.

John Banks

7th March 2007, 15:21

NighthawkNZ

7th March 2007, 15:38

You may not care, but saying that Apples are always more expensive isn't quite true anymore.

that hardware might not be, but the software is... and there is a hell of a lot more software commercial and freeware for the PC

imdying

7th March 2007, 15:39

Yes. XP's RAM requirements are extremely bloated.Oh noes! XP needs $50 of RAM to run right! The end of the world is near!

NighthawkNZ

7th March 2007, 15:52

20 days is considered a 'stable platform'?

gasp

My linux system hasn't been booted for over 2 years... (even with software updates)

My mac on average once a month... (software updates)

windows varies depending on what I am doing... from once a week to 3 or 4 months and its usually because a software and patch updates

Now I run a pretty tight lean ship and only have installed software that I use. If I don't use it it gets uninstalled and registry cleaned out... Now I have another system where I test software on and it is pretty unstable at the moment and does require regular reboots

NighthawkNZ

7th March 2007, 16:00

Yes. XP's RAM requirements are extremely bloated.

yes considering years ago I needed 64 kb of RAM oh then 128.... then DOS on my XT with 640kb RAM to run GEOS, heck nearly a whole 1 mb, then my 286 with 4mb win Win3.0, wowsers 386 with 8mb, Win3.11 blah blah blah...

and I now have 1.5gb on my PC... eh just give me a couple of Terabytes of ram and a couple 1000Tb's for my HD and be done with it...

skelstar

7th March 2007, 16:15

We're all arguing about Vista with real people via an internet forum...aren't the lines a little blurred now regarding nerdiness?

davereid

8th March 2007, 09:04

[LIST]
My linux system hasn't been booted for over 2 years... (even with software updates)

Yep, I installed Ubuntu Linux on an old PC, transferring my copy of XP to the new one. It looks good, its stable but I struggle with the basics like downloading and installing new software.

I find the Ubuntu help pages even more confusing than the Windoze ones which is really saying something!

I'll be hanging on to XP as long as I can, and trying to learn more about Linux so I can skip Vista completely.

I see the IRD have decided to use Linux instead of XP/VISTA when they next upgrade.

limbimtimwim

8th March 2007, 12:15

Yep, I installed Ubuntu Linux on an old PC, transferring my copy of XP to the new one. It looks good, its stable but I struggle with the basics like downloading and installing new software.In the current version of Ubuntu, you click on applications, then 'add/remove' and choose what you want from there. It downloads and installs it with very little interaction. What are you struggling with?

Yeah, thread hijack I know..

R6_kid

23rd June 2007, 19:04

just got a new computer, AMD 64bit 5600+ Dual Core, running 2GB ram, and has a 256mb nVidia Nforce 8600GT in it. We have it set up with dual boot with XP and Vista. I've only heard bad things about Vista, but i havent read much lately, and i cant be bothered reading too much at the moment.

How are people finding it now? I'm going to install some of my 'older' games later such as LOMAC, IL2, and Pacific Fighters, and will be getting a load more games tonight/tomorrow from my mate. Anyone able to tell me before I install if I am going to run into problems?

Liking the new computer either way, though i guess you always do. Got a nice 'big' 21ich LCD Samung, and a 5.1 Surround Sound Logitech setup for music... very nice. :Punk: Sure it's off the shelf, but I haven't had a new computer since 2001 so I'm pretty stoked, even if my dad selected the specifications without telling me he was buying the thing.

Drunken Monkey

23rd June 2007, 21:46

Haven't had many problems running my Windows Vista Ultimate NFR copy on a LAN that has a domain controller, but NOT logging on to the domain. I play games on it, so far only newish ones (GTA:San Andreas, Total War: Medieval II, America's Army (until PunkBastard crapped out)), use MS Office 2K3 (gave up on 2K7), RDP/ICA and a few other *cough* work tools.
So far, no major issues.

Had some problems with test and prod boxes at customers, problems with NICs losing the LAN after sleep mode, when you re-enable them you can se the other computers but not connect to them (WTF?), some .NET security issues, but mostly running ok. Basic O/S included security 'tools' like defender, firewall, etc...work better than Symantec I.S. Enterprise, but that's no suprise. F**K I hate Symantec's products now, and their useless licensing desk is about 6 months behind. We've been sent cracks by the distributor here to extend eval modes on customer's Backup Exec installs which they are licensed for because Symantec haven't been able to generate new keys! WTF is with that?!

Only used Beta 2/RC1/RC2, Ultimate and Business. Haven't used Vista home yet, so not sure what kind of bastard things I'm used to doing I won't be able to do.

Street Gerbil

24th June 2007, 15:15

Why fight inevitable? I will upgrade my home network to Vista as soon as SP6 comes out.

Beemer

24th June 2007, 16:37

I bought a new computer just when XP came out and I must confess I did experience a lot of crashes with the system - but it's likely the crappy PC Company hardware was to blame!

I bought a new computer just when Vista arrived but it had XP so I wasn't worried about upgrading. However, that computer was faulty and had to be replaced after three months and the new one has Vista. I am not a computer person and therefore can't articulate as well as some of you, but I really like it! I have had very few problems with - the only one was an incompatability issue with Photoshop CS2. It kept prompting me to register the product each time I opened it and unfortunately I kept doing so until I got an error message saying I had activated the product too many times and I had days of frustration before I could get a new activation code from Adobe.

But I like the look of Vista and my new computer is obviously grunty enough to run it well, so I'm happy.

Drunken Monkey

24th June 2007, 23:57

Beemer, you had a problem with the 'elevated' security model. It was really nasty on the pre-public release versions.

Beemer

25th June 2007, 11:39

Beemer, you had a problem with the 'elevated' security model. It was really nasty on the pre-public release versions.

I felt a twat for not Googling the problem when it first occured as someone had posted a solution but by then it was too late and Adobe really pissed me off! I rang their help desk for two days, at different times of the day and night, and never found it open. I emailed them and got no response - although after being given a different number (which worked, I got a real person, hallelujah!), I have since received 20 emails from them saying the case has been closed...

Hopefully that will be the only problem I find!

Lias

25th June 2007, 16:08

I bought a new computer just when XP came out and I must confess I did experience a lot of crashes with the system - but it's likely the crappy PC Company hardware was to blame!

Well that and the fact we rushed XP out the door so we could claim we were the worlds first OEM to ship it, despite the fact that most of the hardware we were supplying didnt have native XP drivers and we were mostly using 2k ones :-)

Dont you LOVE it when management and marketing get to overrule the R&D guys? Happened a hell of a lot at the PC Company.. I remember one particular motherboard we got in, we tested it, it was an absolute hunk of shit even by our standards, we told management we should not buy them under any circumstances, they said they'd already brought 1000's of them and production was starting in 2 days.. We had somewhere around a 70-80% failure rate on those boards within a year.

*mutter mutter mutter*

MOTOXXX

25th June 2007, 18:22