any commercial pilots?

[bugjuice]

I know there's a few guys around here, just wanting to get some general info..
been flying a few times, love it, hate me job, so wanna fly for a living. But it's just a bit of a 'leap of faith' to switch careers like this.. most of it is about the mula side of it, but also about jobs n stuff too. I'm gonna go postal at work if I don't do something soon, but i just want to know that when i jack it in here, and start flyin for me bread n butter, I'm not making a costly mistake.. I'll have to get a student loan to cover it too, cos i can't earn what I need, fast enough.. so how poor am i going to be for how long? anyone know?
and nah, not overly keen in the NZAF. It'd be good to do, but the stress of making sure my socks are neatly rolled facing magnetic north etc would just do my head in

[James Deuce]

You'd never get into the RNZAF unless you are already a superbly qualified military pilot. Your age is against you there, and the fact that you have to go three rounds with 4 other pilots to get on the flight roster due to the fact that they only have 2 boxkites and a working replica of Leonardo Da Vinci's Helicopter as operational aircraft.

I keep hearing of stories of $100,000 student loans to do the Massey Aviation degree.

Yes it is a leap of faith, and terbang is probably the guy to talk to, but do you really want to be a bus driver in 3D?

[Scouse]

Yep what Jim says Terbang is your goto man he did my multi rating for me and even when flying whisper jets up and down the country for Anset was still heavily involved in flight training for GA pilots so send him a pm and ask him for his cell phone number and have a chat

[Toaster]

I read a decent report intoi the avation industry a few months back. NZ has waaaay too many pilots for the size of the industry. So finding decent paid work is not easy or quick. Offshore would be where you'd have to head by the sounds of it.

[jimbo600]

Fuckin expensive. Getting a CPL is the easy bit. Expect to live like a peasant for a couple of years doing freight runs at night getting hours up. Pay is crap till you get gas turbine multi engine hours and run folk and down the country.

But hey, if you love flying its worth it.

Personally I don't love it that much.

Best in is the RNZAF but forget it if your maths aint top notch

[marty]

NZ has too many young pilots from massey with 200hrs, and not enough with 2000hrs. we have planes parked up cause there is a shortage of pilots. fresh cpl/meir 250hr pilots are no good when you're in IMC in the dark rain on an NDB approach into taupo......

i was accepted into the RNZAF at 37 years and went so far as going down there, but pulled out as i didn't want move to bulls/palmy.

if my circumstances were different, i'd be flying choppers/hercs now, or maybe even flying in africa/botswana, but instead i've stayed working in aviation, paid for my cpl/meir up front, bought a share in a pitts, and have spent 5 hours today flying parachutes at the skydive nats (and being paid for it too!). i've just ticked over 400 hrs since going solo in march 2005. i start my c-cat in a couple of weeks. life's not too bad.

[R6_kid]

if you got decent maths try the air force kit. Only thing is, like you said, learning to be an officer and a gentleman. By the time you're flying the real deal your taxes have paid for $1,000,000 worth of flying across a much larger range of REAL aircraft than any other pilot with as many hours as you will have. And you get paid for it. Another downside is living in Bulls... Kelly might not like it, but your only 1/2hr from Manfield, 4hrs from Taupo... life could be very good! Then there is 10yrs return of service.

I have 3 mates on pilots course atm, all are thoroughly loving it, ages between 21 and 24.

[bugjuice]

yeah, the a/f doesn't really appeal to me..

k, so i'll be poor for a while, but happy..?
was gonna do it from ardmore for the bulk of it cos they can get student loans, then probably do the additions like MR and IR etc at Whenuapi (sp?) or north shore, cos it's a bit closer, and just more experience with other places.

How long would it take, before I start earning off it too? I guess the first step would be instructors, which I don't mind, but I know that I'm not going to earn what I earn now for a while. So, for eg, how long would it take for a newb to get to a ball park of 50g p/a for eg? I don't mind putting the hours in, and for something like this, it'd be cool as.. and I'd be doing temp work in macs still, help make ends meet for a bit


thanks for the advice so far btw

[Jantar]

My son did his cpl/meir/instructor rating etc at Ardmore. He is now an instructor at the Darwin Flying School earning A$50 per flying hour and A$25 per classroom hour. Not big money, but much more than he could earn doing the same job in New Zealand. His student loan is around $160,000.

[bugjuice]

far out.. that's heaps..
see, seeing things like that kinda put me off. There's no way I could pay that much by working for it, so a loan is the only way to go, but then how long would that take to pay off?! But, as long as there's a roof over me head, a burger in me stomach and gogo juice in the bike, then I'm happy

[Pussy]

If you've got REAL determination, and REAL commitment, you won't have too much trouble getting into it. There are, however, lots of CPLs out there who have entered aviation on a whim, and won't in my opinion cut the mustard. The right attitude will get you a long way, as will not thinking that the world owes you something. I've seen some guys who I would have no problem recommending, and lots of others with the same experience who I wouldn't touch. Good luck, if you're serious

[bugjuice]

if i can fly as well as I ride, then I don't think I should have too many problems. And if I don't do something right now, then I never will, and that's gutting. It's always been a passion, along side bikes. It's just cheaper to have bought a nice bike and have fun, than get my PPL to start and build the hrs. I realise I made the wrong choice there, but hey, I'm ready and willing now

[Pussy]

Another little piece of advice... NEVER let your confidence exceed your competence... the cemetaries are full of hot-shot low time pilots

[Grub]

The Grub is a 300hr PPL, a rare beast these days. Most PPL's die out at 150hrs max but I have a genetic eye issue that I didn't want to uncover in the CPL medical and stop me flying all together - I am happy. Aviation is a drug, the best you can get.

If you're into this BugJuice, get your ATPL medical right off. You will not fly turbines, perhaps even in the right seat, certainly not in command, without it. One of my ex-Ansett mates in the business has just been there. (Sounds like Terbang - Andrew is that you?).

If you have avgas in your blood, do this. There are some expensive and some cheaper options. There's a lot of "tertiary" institutions out there dying to take your money. I would recommend considering an aero club for the PPL. There's nothing the tertiaries can teach you (well maybe CRM) that you won't learn there. If you play it right, they can be cheaper.

[YLWDUC]

Folding socks only lasts for a few months, and the training wage in the RNZAF is around 25000 for a bograt Pilot Officer. By the time you're a proper Eric Flashart / Ace Rimmer you'd be on around 60 grand.

That, and you get to fly around at 350kts at 200ft hunting subs. Well, at least you do if you're a fishhead. Most of the pilots just want to learn to drive trucks and then join up with Cathay.....

[Grub]

Another little piece of advice... NEVER let your confidence exceed your competence... the cemetaries are full of hot-shot low time pilots

Yup, the high-risk time is between 150 nd 250 hrs. You think you've got it all. Thing is, aircraft piloting is like like riding a bike - there's always a catch and its going to hurt

[Jantar]

.... It's just cheaper to have bought a nice bike and have fun, than get my PPL to start and build the hrs.
Getting a PPL then building your hours would be the most expensive way to get into commercial flying. If you have the aptitude then get your class 1 medical, and enrol straight into one of the flying schools. Ardmore is pretty good and its close to you. Southland is probably the cheapest as the classroom part of the training is free.

The first few weeks are when you do your PPl and if you're not going to cut then you will be weeded out at that stage. Bite the bullet, man, and go do it. :yes:

[Jantar]

Yup, the high-risk time is between 150 nd 250 hrs. You think you've got it all. Thing is, aircraft piloting is like like riding a bike - there's always a catch and its going to hurt
A superior pilot is one who uses his superior ability to avoid the situations that would require his superior skill to survive.

[Grub]

Cool, I like that one Jantar ... haven't seen it b4

[The_Dover]

So what could my old man hope to earn being one of the most experienced SAR commanders in the world with 20+ years experience on the North Sea?

CPL, twin engine rating (currently on S61's but shifting to S92's) with Jetranger,212, 204, 205, Wessex, Wasp, Whirlwind and multiple other ancient licences?

I'd like the old cunt to move out here cos he likes his piss.

[Pussy]

A superior pilot is one who uses his superior ability to avoid the situations that would require his superior skill to survive.

It's actually "A superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgement to stay out of situations that may require the use of his superior skill".

Hey, Dover, get my number from Frenchy, might be able to put your old man on to something

[Swoop]

Buggy. Look up the Aviation Sports Club (ASC) "power section" on Whenuapai airbase. They do flight training there.
Their rates were "reasonable" some years back.

[balans]

I'd go miltary if I were you, the sock folding isn't an issue after initial training. Personaly I'd go for the British Navy if it wasn't for the pedantic medical.
anyway
Have a look at www.pprune.com the 'professional pilots rumer network' some good forums on training and employment options in the aviation industry world wide.

[wildpudding]

I'm training with the aero club here in New Plymouth, doing the full CPL,IFR,Multi and C-cat rating. Started pretty young(17) fresh out of school but enjoying it like nothing else.

If you go down the instructors road, expect to be living on basics baked beans for a few years. And you'll probably need a second non-aviation job to supplement your income. Sad fact of life, talking to a 1200+ hour B-cat yesterday, over 300hrs multi time, does plastering on his days off...

Though if you want to do it go for it, but I'd be wary about doing your training at a pilot factory like ardmore.

Stefan

[marty]

although he did just have an eagle inteview (yes i know he didn't get in - more due to his circumstances than experience though)

[ManDownUnder]

I understand terbang's the man...if not already posted (sorry - just a hit and run)

[marty]

How long would it take, before I start earning off it too? I guess the first step would be instructors, which I don't mind, but I know that I'm not going to earn what I earn now for a while. So, for eg, how long would it take for a newb to get to a ball park of 50g p/a for eg? I don't mind putting the hours in, and for something like this, it'd be cool as.. and I'd be doing temp work in macs still, help make ends meet for a bit


thanks for the advice so far btw

andy stevenson is paying around $45-50k to his xl750 drivers, but they live in timbuktoo. or Kangiqsualujjuaq. there is a job with him in the latest wings mag - need to spend 6 months driving a loader first though.

in Mali the flying is good, pay is crap. not a married man's place (well not for his wife anyway)

jump pilots in taupo are getting around $40-50k on contract. sometimes fly 11 hours a day. and it's flying, not sleeping on autopilot.....

Eagle FO gets around $40k, plus allowances. Captain starts (i think) on about $60k. you'll need about 400hrs multi, or a multi instructors rating to get an interview. unlikely to get a job at nelson or mt cook without a couple of years in a beech or similar first.

GA intructors get about $30/flight hour. too bad if it's shit weather.

if you have EU live/work rights, consider the CTC path. it'll cost you 70k quid, and you'll be tied to easyjet or similar for 7 years, but you'll be flying A320/737/757 at 250hrs, and after effectively a 7 year apprentiship, you'll be well sorted. CTC cannot train enough pilots for the LCs at the moment.

[justsomeguy]

Hey - good on you for deciding to do something about things mate. No point sitting and being miserable although it takes less effort. :niceone:

Buggy - I thought about this pretty hard in 6th and even 7th form. You're looking at 2 - maybe 5 years of living on joke pay (compared to what a mac monkey with your experience should be on) until you get your experience up.

NZLiam - SN4PD - his bro is a commercial pilot with either Singapore or Cathay - one of them and is on around six figures a month or something - However it took him about 4 years in Africa gaining experience and a few years in some parts of the western world to reach where he is - and fortunately for him his parents didn't bother him with a loan.

Like most high paying professions you are looking at a few years of setting yourself up as you gain the hours and graduate to more complicated planes.

Are you willing to "become a student" again and live that sort of lifestyle again? Then spend a few more years repaying that loan?

For me - the amount of time and effort required to become what I wanted to didn't appeal to me.

Along with Bruce (Terbang) you may also wish to shoot Liam (SN4PD) a PM too for another perspective - including the more soft skills needed to become a commercial pilot.

[sAsLEX]

I'd go miltary if I were you, the sock folding isn't an issue after initial training. Personaly I'd go for the British Navy if it wasn't for the pedantic medical.


I would steer well clear of the brittish navy at present since they are downsizing and no one is being promoted past LT for the next 5 years, no new carrier, most bases shutting down..........