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hazzy
7th March 2007, 22:32
Last week i stopped at a petrol station to fuel up and the bike wouldn't start so i gave it a roll start, rode it round for a while to see if any bike shops where open, none. Drove home and it started normally.

Its been a week with no problems now it won't start again. It's making a clicking sound, not even trying to start... sounds like a spark or something. I roll started it and drove around a few places and it still won't try to start or anything just clicks.

I don't know much about the mechanics of bikes... what seems to be the problem doctor?

Don't think its a flat battery as i gave it a good drive + charge up and the lights and indicators work normally.

The light switch on the bike is always left on however when i turn the key off they turn off, this wouldn't drain the battery - would it?

The Stranger
7th March 2007, 22:40
Last week i stopped at a petrol station to fuel up and the bike wouldn't start so i gave it a roll start, rode it round for a while to see if any bike shops where open, none. Drove home and it started normally.

Its been a week with no problems now it won't start again. It's making a clicking sound, not even trying to start... sounds like a spark or something. I roll started it and drove around a few places and it still won't try to start or anything just clicks.

I don't know much about the mechanics of bikes... what seems to be the problem doctor?

Don't think its a flat battery as i gave it a good drive + charge up and the lights and indicators work.

So from the description, I gather that the motor is not turning over.

If that is the case you could try putting it in gear and giving the bike a rock back and forth a few times. Then try starting it normally. Does this help?

hazzy
7th March 2007, 22:42
So from the description, I gather that the motor is not turning over.

If that is the case you could try putting it in gear and giving the bike a rock back and forth a few times. Then try starting it normally. Does this help?


It wont even try to turn over - it just makes one tick sound when i press the starter button - brb will go try

hazzy
7th March 2007, 22:46
tried giving it some rocks then starting it, just went tick as usual... would it be caused by the fact that theres no fairings and its left out in the rain?

The lights are bright as usual and indicators

Drum
7th March 2007, 23:03
.........Don't think its a flat battery as i gave it a good drive + charge up ...........

What do you mean by 'charge up'? 12 hours? If not then it's worth a try.

How old is the battery? If you don't know then it may be time for a new one?

A friend of mine has one of these 80's GSXR 250's and she's always having electrical problems (among other things!).

hazzy
7th March 2007, 23:47
What do you mean by 'charge up'? 12 hours? If not then it's worth a try.

How old is the battery? If you don't know then it may be time for a new one?

A friend of mine has one of these 80's GSXR 250's and she's always having electrical problems (among other things!).

Yeh battery pretty old i'm assuming, whats the usual price on a new battery?

imdying
8th March 2007, 08:53
Make sure the terminals are tight at both ends (i.e. solenoids, terminals, starter)

F5 Dave
8th March 2007, 16:48
Old suzis are known for not being particularly robust electrically, but at 20yrs old one mustn’t grumble.

Lights won’t stay on like a car.

First & easiest thing to do is go buy a cheap multimeter from Tricky Dicky or supercheap for ~ $20, maybe less.

It won’t bite, even your mother could learn how to use one. Put the leads over the battery while in the Volts position & see what it sez. Then turn on the ignition & the lights, read meter. Then push the starter.

By now the voltage will have sagged hideously as most likely the battery is too knackered to take a decent charge. Starting is a big current drain, indicators next to nil.

Next roll start the bike & measure the voltage. Report back, but if too high (above say 14-15 when revved) or too low (less than 13 with lights on) then likely the alternator & or the regulator are toast. As said this is not uncommon.

If all is well then you can try using some pliers to short the starter solenoid (the switch that is clicking & attaches between the battery & the starter with thick cable, one connects the thick cable together with pliers) to test the solenoid.

desmo dave
8th March 2007, 18:48
Old suzis are known for not being particularly robust electrically, but at 20yrs old one mustn’t grumble.

Lights won’t stay on like a car.

First & easiest thing to do is go buy a cheap multimeter from Tricky Dicky or supercheap for ~ $20, maybe less.

It won’t bite, even your mother could learn how to use one. Put the leads over the battery while in the Volts position & see what it sez. Then turn on the ignition & the lights, read meter. Then push the starter.

By now the voltage will have sagged hideously as most likely the battery is too knackered to take a decent charge. Starting is a big current drain, indicators next to nil.

Next roll start the bike & measure the voltage. Report back, but if too high (above say 14-15 when revved) or too low (less than 13 with lights on) then likely the alternator & or the regulator are toast. As said this is not uncommon.

If all is well then you can try using some pliers to short the starter solenoid (the switch that is clicking & attaches between the battery & the starter with thick cable, one connects the thick cable together with pliers) to test the solenoid.
ark the 2 polls (+/-) on the solenoid if it fires up you will know the problem is before the power reachers there ie ignition or starter button.maybe just a dicked battery though. report back on how you get on with it.

hazzy
8th March 2007, 19:35
ark the 2 polls (+/-) on the solenoid if it fires up you will know the problem is before the power reachers there ie ignition or starter button.maybe just a dicked battery though. report back on how you get on with it.

i dont know what the solenoid is - i'm pretty illiterate when it comes to electrical stuff or motors for that matter

Hanne
8th March 2007, 19:58
my 750 was sparking (the crack/click noise) the other day... bad connection between battery and lead (thing was corroded), gave it a clean and she went fine

GSXRjohn
8th March 2007, 20:03
Go and get the batt load tested for free

desmo dave
8th March 2007, 21:00
i dont know what the solenoid is - i'm pretty illiterate when it comes to electrical stuff or motors for that matter
may look something like these pics.no idea where it is on your bike but it shouldnt be far from the battery. just follow the leds from the battery. if you take your batter to an auto sparky to get the battery tested they should be able to point the solenoid out to you.

hazzy
8th March 2007, 21:34
may look something like these pics.no idea where it is on your bike but it shouldnt be far from the battery. just follow the leds from the battery. if you take your batter to an auto sparky to get the battery tested they should be able to point the solenoid out to you.

sweet yea i found it thanks, i hit up a friend whos a car mechanic hes gonna try help me out tommorow

wildpudding
10th March 2007, 14:30
I've been having lately pretty much the same prob on my bike...except its intermittent. Battery is pretty new too, but it did the same thing with a new battery.

I find moving the bike around in gear with the clutch engaged fixes it and it starts normally. I'm thinking the starter motor is on the way out, as the engine stops in a position where the starter motor doesn't have enough torque to overcome the compression, and by moving the engine through part of a revoultion fixes the problem.

My theory anyway.

hazzy
10th March 2007, 19:15
We fixed the problem, it turns out the bristles in the starter moter where sticking or old and warn, gave it a few bangs and shes working again, wonder how long this will last before i have to replace them.

Guerrilla
29th March 2007, 09:48
I have a similiar issue but since I don't know the jargon(and have no clue what I'm doing) I've been searching the web for hours w/ no success. I bought a new battery a week ago and was driving my bike around my neighborhood the past week. Yesterday I drove it to work in the morning and in the afternoon it wouldn't start. Not only did it not start when I turn the key to the ON position the clock on the dash disappeared. I hit the starter switch and I didn't even hear a click. I got a jump and drove it home (20 minutes) pulled in the driveway killed it and it wouldn't come back on. Assuming that I'm using the multimeter correctly, the battery read 12.3 volts with the key in the OFF position and 0-2.3 in the ON position (I didn't even try to test it while pressing the starter switch). Does this mean my battery is jacked up or do I have a short?

F5 Dave
29th March 2007, 09:53
Well there's the problem. You should never drive a bike. Try riding it & it may want to behave.


Sounds like a short BUT,
I suspect the battery is toast & any current is killing it. Disconnect it & apply a load, erm ideally a couple of wires to a headlight bulb.

F5 Dave
29th March 2007, 10:36
Nice

Yeah I can imagine you could bang them for ages. Warm you up on a cold rainy night too.

Guerrilla
29th March 2007, 12:43
Dave thanks for the reply. As my disclaimer declared before I'm a newb so I apoligize for the questions. So I took my battery out and tested it with the multimeter. V with a ~ over it read 11.7 at 200 and the V with a line and 3 dots over it read 5.7 at 200. What is the difference? I didn't want to cut the wires to my headlights so my idea to apply a load was to I cut the cord of an old pair of hair clippers, stripped the ends and touched one to the POS and one to the NEG. The multimeter then read 9.6 from 11.7 and 4.7 from 5.7 does this tell you anything or was it pointless? :scratch:

F5 Dave
29th March 2007, 12:48
No prob with asking questions, that's what the forum is for.

Bit confused, but you seem to be measuring DC then AC. Batterys are DC, although the ~ is AC symbol. So am confused by your description.

So you short cct the battery? eek, but that would have been a heck of a load, so maybe the battery is not the problem.

Guerrilla
29th March 2007, 13:00
LOL yeah I have no idea what I'm doing. I'll take it to an auto shop and let them test it. My multimeter has a dial on it that you can switch between the following setting and I figured i had to test one of the two Vs.
__
...
V 20, 200, 500, 200m, 2000m

~
V 200, 500

omega 200, 2000, 20K, 200K, 2000K

__
...
A 200mu, 2000mu, 200m, 20m, 10A

F5 Dave
29th March 2007, 15:51
in same order

DC - Like battery
AC - Alternating Like from the wall socket
ohms - resistance
Amps - Current

Ixion
29th March 2007, 16:16
Banging warn bristles should last for ages.

I've always said those things were pigs .

Ixion
29th March 2007, 16:18
Well there's the problem. You should never drive a bike. Try riding it & it may want to behave.


Sounds like a short BUT,
I suspect the battery is toast & any current is killing it. Disconnect it & apply a load, erm ideally a couple of wires to a headlight bulb.

Your (OP's) battery is naffed. Which is either because it's defective or because the rectifer/regulator is toasted. Take the battery back to where you got it from and ask them to test it. It's not all that uncommon for a new battery to be defective and they usually seem to show up after about a week for some weird reason.

Guerrilla
30th March 2007, 00:32
Thanks guys. I'll take it in and I'll write back what they say.

Guerrilla
31st March 2007, 12:51
Went to get the battery tested but it was too low so I went and bought a charger and charged it over night. Took it back to the shop, they tested it and said it was a good battery. I put it back in the bike and got excited because in when I turned the key to the ON position the lights came on. So I started to feel like a jerk wasting your time on a battery the just needed to be charged. Well I went to start it and nothing happened, once again I didn't get a click or anything. I tried to push start it and got it running. I came back and reread this thread. I saw Dave say test the battery with a multimeter when I press the start button. Before I charged the battey, when I pressed the start button it would drain the volts to 0. Now when I press the start button no volts drain. Any ideas?

Ixion
31st March 2007, 13:17
Check fuses and connections. Put the multimeter across the battery, ignition off. Fully charged battery it should read about 13 volts. Turn ignition on , it should drop to 12 point something. Press starter switch it should drop a lot - around 8 volts is normalish. If it doesn't drop ata ll you have a blown fuse or bad connection (or stuffed starter solenoid). Push start bike, with motor running about 3000 rpm check multimeter reading, should be 13 - 14 volts.

Report back the voltage readings

smoky
31st March 2007, 13:45
bought a charger and charged it over night.

When your battery gets low, and you go for a ride and charge it - all you've done is given it a surface charge.That'll last for short while - but your battery won't have the staying power, and likley to go flat very easily again.
What it really needs a deep charge. thats when you put a load bank on it - ie lights on until it's completely flat, then do as Guerrilla has - get a battery charger and charge it on trickle charge for 24 hours or so.:rockon:

Guerrilla
31st March 2007, 14:28
I looked at the five fuses (ignition, signal, meter, head-hi, head-lo) directly above the battery none were blown. I don't know how to check the fat main fuse that sits besides the other five. The terminals are clean and screwed on tight. Sitting there not running the battery reads 12.1 volts I turn the key to the on position and it dropped to 11.6 i hit the starter switch and it stays at 11.6 volts. I pushed started the bike and revved it up to 3000 rpms and it read 14.2 volts. So I think that leaves the solenoid right? I'll try what dave suggested early with the pilers.

Guerrilla
2nd April 2007, 01:50
That was pretty good guys, I found the solenoid and shorted it with pilers. I also, almost pissed my pants when the bike started. With that said, I have a bad solenoid right?

Ixion
2nd April 2007, 07:37
Or a bad starter switch , or a broken wire from the switch to the solenoid. Odds are on a dud solenoid though.

There should be three wires coming from the solenoid (maybe 4). Two big thick ones going to the terminals you shorted out. And one or two thin ones. One of the thin ones is the wire from the switch , the other is there is a fourth is to earth.

What complicates things is that soem bikes actually use the starter switch in the earth connect .

If you can figure out which wires those are and disconnect them, put the meter across them in ohms mode (the omega symbol). See if either one is connected to earth (low or zero meter reading). If so connect a wire from the battery positive to the OTHER wire, and see if the starter works. (if they're both connected to earth you have a short circuit)

If not, or if you only have one thin wire, switch the meter to volts DC and see if you get voltage between any wire and earth, with the ignition on and pressing the starter switch.

If not, turn the meter to ohms again, and see f any wire is connected to earth when you press the starter switch.

If none of these apply, then you possibly have a dud switch or a broken wire.

F5 Dave
2nd April 2007, 10:56
Haha! Yeah it can give you a bit of a scare when you are that close & holding some pliers over a bridge.

The solenoid is a remote switch. You know the switching side works, so you can pull the thin push on wires off & apply voltage & earth to the correct sides & the switch should operate, or it is dud.

On an old Zook I had the starter button get a bit dirty & that caused similar issue. you can take the switch block apart & clean it up if the resistance is high. They can be a little fiddly, but no issue if you are careful.

Guerrilla
3rd April 2007, 08:16
I have four wires coming from the solenoid. 2 are a little bigger and red. The 2 smaller ones are black and yellow and black and white. They all stem from a single connector that I can disconnect from the solenoid, so I don't think I can just disconnect the smaller ones. By disconnect did you want me to cut the wires, follow your tests and then splice them back together?

F5 Dave
3rd April 2007, 09:21
Ah, no. Often the thick ones are bolt onto, & the smaller ones plug. Just try take the button apart & see if that helps.

Guerrilla
26th April 2007, 11:49
I was getting voltage to the starter switch so that lead me to believe that it was the solenoid. (It's the part labeled 1) So I bought a new one and it didn't help. I had my brother come over and he can ghetto rig anything. The best suggestion he had was to wire a push button to the solenoid so anytime i wanted to start it i could just push the button. He did however suggest testing the main relay (the other two pictures). So I took it to a shop and they said it was bad because the resistance was high. So I waited for a week for the part to come in and replaced it... and nothing. So now I'm was tracing the voltage and it doesn't change when i press the starter button.
But, when I have the kill switch in run mode it the voltage continues.
When I press the start switch the voltage continues.
I traced it through a few connectors and it leads to the clutch but I don't see and wires coming from the clutch. Do I take the clutch apart? Also it should start if i have the fairings and seat off right?

F5 Dave
26th April 2007, 12:26
The clutch? Nah. Will start without seat & fairings.

the below is a bit confusing. Where are you testing all this?
So now I'm was tracing the voltage and it doesn't change when i press the starter button.
But, when I have the kill switch in run mode it the voltage continues.
When I press the start switch the voltage continues.

trying to catch up
ok so you know the solenoid works as you can short cct the incoming switch wires right?

so if you check the other two wires what happens when you push the button? The button may just short to earth when pushed. Does this happen?

Guerrilla
26th April 2007, 12:57
I took the starter/kill switch assembly apart. I was just saying, with the two switches engaged, pressed, bridged or whatever it is called, the current continue along the wires.
I attached the first picture to make sure we were talking about the same thing. If you look at fig 1. you can see 2 nuts where the wires from the battery connect. I short ccted that to get it running. If you look at the platic covering (fig 1A) the hole in the top is where a plug goes through and it has 4 wires coming from the plug. 2 positives and 2 negatives. If i unplug it the lights and digital dash go out. With it plugged in I jammed the multimeter in the 2 pos (one at a time) and hit the starter switch. The voltage did not drop.

I grounded the multimeter on the frame, should I jammed the multimeter ground into the respective negative wire?