Thinking about getting a sidecar

[Steam]

Do you have any good sidecar experiences?
My Grandfather used to have one. my mum has shown me pictures of him on it.

I see sidecars on the road fairly often and they come up on Trademe too.
How much did you sidecar guys pay for your one?
Was it hard to bolt on, as in getting it modified to fit your bike?

I have always wanted one, it's on my list of nice motorcycle things to buy in the coming year. When I get a real bike.

[kneescraper]

You should smack a side chair on the GN and put a gun on it.....that would be real different.

[Steam]

You should smack a side chair on the GN and put a gun on it.....that would be real different.

I thought about that, but it would have to be a sidecar made of paper to be able to be pulled by a GN!~
No, this is for when I get a bigger bike towards the end of this year hopefully.
At a Lower Hutt militaria show I saw a german WW2 sidecar with a replica machine gun made by Custom Guns of Christchurch, that was pretty cool.

[kneescraper]

Nice one, I love they way you have used the amo cases? as panners..looks real cool! Oh and the a old tire on the front mad gaurd.

[Steam]

Oi, back on topic, don't worship my GN, (hallowed be its name,) I'm looking for people to talk about their sidecars.

[Ixion]

I had one, they're quite fun, but not very practical. Bit of a giggle though.

Mounting them on a modern bike can be problematic, the old BSAs and such had sidecar lugs and heavy tube frames.

Modern spar frames are another matter. And there's a bit of a black art in getting them aligned.

But it certainly can be done.

Have you though of a classic bike? Matchy 500 or such like?

[Steam]

Matchy 500 or such like?

Cor guv! I'd love one, but I don't think my skills would be up to maintaining such an aged glory. Maybe... well who knows till I try for myself?
Eventually I will get one. As a luxury rather than my everyday commuter hack.

[Eurodave]

Ive got a CX500 with a Sabiston Mk1 sidecar on it
Its a good, if slightly underpowered, outfit & CX's lend themselves to this well
CX500/GL400's have sleeved holes running across their frame that are perfect for mounting a chair to
I also made a set of proper leading link forks & have made several figlass sidecar bodies
If you go ahead dont think that you can add/remove the chair at will, for the best handling & setup the sidecar should be a permanent fixture as you will need stronger back shox, a steering damper & square tyres for a start
Its a bit of a black art mounting & aligning them properly,if you are serious, gimme a PM & I can advise

[Steam]

... if you are serious, gimme a PM & I can advise
Thanks Dave, I may get in touch at some stage this year.
I'm just dreaming at this stage though.
Ural with sidecar... sigh:love:

[Motu]

I've had 3 sidecars,and have another lying around waiting for me to find a bike for it.They are a lot of fun....but you either love or hate them.Pick a good bike to do it with,some will need a subframe to transfer the forces to the correct areas.

[F5 Dave]

Well I wonder what the compliance people would make of what was once common practice, now must surely fall into modified vehicles category. I mean if bolting on another wheel doesn't qualify?!

Why don't we wander over to the legal section & see if there are any current threads on the subject. . .

[Motu]

They definatly come under modification - ''To change a vehicle from it's original state by altering,substituting,adding or removing any structure,system,component or equipment,but does not include repair''

But a sidecar has always been an add on...although these days an outfit is purpose built and permanent and therefore needs an LVV....but what about one that can be removed and replaced? I intend to have mine set up so I can remove or replace in half an hour.Of course then the bike will always get a WoF solo....but what about law enforcement on the road?

[Eurodave]

but what about law enforcement on the road

Surely if the bike has a current WOF & reg what can plod do? Sidecars are a bit of a grey area but I doubt youd get into any trouble, so long as the sidecar passenger/s were wearing helmets,& you wernt speeding or driving dangerously:dodge:

[Indiana_Jones]

I thought about that, but it would have to be a sidecar made of paper to be able to be pulled by a GN!~
No, this is for when I get a bigger bike towards the end of this year hopefully.
At a Lower Hutt militaria show I saw a german WW2 sidecar with a replica machine gun made by Custom Guns of Christchurch, that was pretty cool.

BMW R75

They're not very cheap, but the Chinese do a look alike, the CJ750 Heaps of guides online on how to ww2 them up :rockon:

http://www.sidecar.co.za/CJ750history.htm

be sure to get yourself a Fedora while you're at it and take your dad for a ride

<img src="http://www.montrealfilmjournal.com/dat/pic/M0000281.jpg">

-indy

[Ixion]

They definatly come under modification - ''To change a vehicle from it's original state by altering,substituting,adding or removing any structure,system,component or equipment,but does not include repair''

..

No, because for the classic chairs (the ones that can be detached, not like kneelers), the bike itself is unchanged.

In principle, they should be treated the same as a trailer which also bolts on (well attaches). So the chair should by rights have its own WoF and Rego. But there were never enough of them for officialdom to take note.

When I had mine I took the BSA , with chair attached , to the testing station. They didn't have a clue what to do, and settled for testing the bike only and completely ignored the chair.

Lights are the same issue too, a lot of sidecars had red rear white front light at side of the chair. But that is not mentioned anywhere in the rules.

Ditto sidecar brakes. How do you test those ? and what should their spec be ?

[Motu]

No, because for the classic chairs (the ones that can be detached, not like kneelers), the bike itself is unchanged.



That's how I see it - but these days most serious outfits have been so modified to make them unriderble as a solo,the chair is effectively permamently attached and so classed as a modification to the structure.I agree a bolt on chair should be seen as a trailer.But WoF testers of certain ethnic origin found in testing stations will not be able to cope with something out of their experiance and so will automatically tick fail.I don't know how they can qualify for the job as none have practical automotive experiance.

[pyrocam]

The last two times i've marshalled (puke nationals and paeroa 2006) there was a sidecar crash.
I know of course these were in race conditions but I still think they are horribly dangerous machines, both times the swinger was either seriously injured or killed.

[Joni]

Hmm Pyro and how many solo riders have come off in the same amount of time? Besides road and track sidecars differ in many many ways...

Sorry Steam to take the thread off track...

I saw a website the other day that offers some great sidecar options, I will ask Kick for the link when he gets home... there is even a military looking option, looks quite cool.. pity your GN could not haul the thing... that would be laugh...

[Motu]

Besides road and track sidecars differ in many many ways...


Doesn't make a lot of difference to the dynamics.When I put my racing BSA outfit on the road I was a bit worried about how it would go.Admitedly we are talking about a '60's pre nealer - but it was in the '70's and had 16in road racing tyres,zero trail and very little steering lock,and it was very low,came up to mid thigh on me.But it was no problem,a shit load of fun,and taught me more about sidecars than the other rigs I had.

[Kickaha]

Sidecar links
http://www.imz-ural.com/
http://www.pashnit.com/bikes/sidecar.htm

I fancy a ural myself:yes:

[Bonez]

Oi, back on topic, don't worship my GN, (hallowed be its name,) I'm looking for people to talk about their sidecars.My CX was once used to haul a sidecar but I felt sorry for it and set it free!!!...........:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Mr. Peanut]

Yeesh, I wouldn't feel safe in a sidecar, so low, just waiting for a truck to swing wide... :sick:

[Kickaha]

Yeesh, I wouldn't feel safe in a sidecar, so low, just waiting for a truck to swing wide... :sick:

I don't know what you're thinking of but most road sidecars are no lower than a motorcycle

[Denniso]

When you do the side car thing please make sure you get some pictures for us as I recon they are pretty dam cool things . The only reason I dont have one on the road is I keep having flashbacks of all of mine riding me at various times . (bloody speedway chairs are stupid dam things , but a hell of alot of fun) So go ahead find some good sensable advice and get one then enjoy yourself .:yes:

[Steam]

When you do the side car thing please make sure you get some pictures for us as I recon they are pretty dam cool things .

Will do, won't be for a year or so though.

[gijoe1313]

I like the cut of your jib mister! I've got a hankering to having a sidecar combo myself one of these days, go the whole german zundapp/side car thang :lol: I actually have ideas for two of them ... one space marine and the other old school german style.

Will be fun one day when we both meet up riding our respective bike and sidecars! :woohoo:

[pete376403]

Now that my new bike is one the way the old GS1100 is destined to become a sidecar tug. Should be ok - enough power, shaft drive, steel tube frame. Am giving consideration to leading link forks but they're damned expensive to buy and I would guess that you're not allowed to make anything like that for yourself anymore. there was an article in a "Two Wheels" mag a while ago about an aussie made chair that had a steerable sidecar wheel, which used the lean of the entire outfit (while cornering) to adjust the toe-in/toe-out of the s/car wheel. While they say it worked extremely well, there were so many rose joints in the steering setup it was commercially economically unfeasible.

[Motu]

I've seen pictures of those,and every motorcyclist thinks that is the perfect way to set up a sidecar.....but I have my doubts.The outfit needs to be rigidly mounted so the forces transfer though the frame,if they only work through the lower mounts then the bike has to be balanced as well as pushing and pulling the asymmetric weight of the chair. I've seen those things being ridden smoothly,but I doubt if you could push one really hard - like would you be able to spin it in a 180 or 360? I very much doubt it.

There was a farm chair made in NZ before quads arrived on the scene - it had adjustable top links.So when traversing a hillside you could loosen them and then lock up on the new angle.There was one on Waiheke Island when I lived there....and I think mine is the same,but has no sliding top links,I could be mistaken,I've ridden too many things over the years.

The clown who owned it used to ride on the road with the top links loose....and I had a go on it.Almost impossible to ride - a bike uses forces we won't get into arguments about,but they countersteer....and a sidecar doesn't.So when you turn left the bike falls over to the right,and you fall off the bike onto the road...at least I did.And if you turn right you fall in a tangle into the chair.You have to balance the forces needed to turn the chair agaist the gyroscopic forces of the solo bike.Damn near impossible.

So I've ridden a sidecar that leaned - but it was a flawed concept,and not intended by the designer.I'd like to have a go on a more sorted leaning outfit.

[avgas]

A guy down in Katikati sells brand new Ural sidecars. They look nice and from recall $5K is all it will cost ya.

[pete376403]

The "Two Wheels" feature wasn't about a leaning sidecar - the chair and bike were quite rigid. What this one did was, when the bike/chair combo leaned during cornering as a result of suspension compressing, the lean was used to turn the chair wheel in the direction of the turn. ie with the chair mounted on the left side of the bike - going around a left hand turn, the bike suspension compresses and the weight lifts off the chair wheel, that is the outfit rolls to the right. the links cause the steerable chair wheel to turn slightly to the left. With a right hand turn its the opposite, the bike tries to roll over the chair and this causes the chair wheel to turn right. The bike used was a CBR1000 and theowner said he got far less tyre wear because it wasn't scuffing so much cornering. Also claimed much better chain life. Need to go back through the piles of T/W issues and see if I can find it again

[Kickaha]

A guy down in Katikati sells brand new Ural sidecars. They look nice and from recall $5K is all it will cost ya.

Can you give me any more info about him?

[pete376403]

Sidecars New Zealand, 52 Chelmsford Street, RD 1, Katikati, contact Kurt, Phone & fax 07-549-4438 or Email: redtriangle@xtra.co.nz .

[phantom]

Saw an article in a magazine a couple of years ago about some european company making road going/ touring sidecar units, looked a bit like a road version of the newer racing units, presumably with a bit more comfort. Not sure what real use they would be but sure as hell looked cool and would scare the shite out of any cages that actually saw it coming

[Joni]

Shit I could think of things way less cool than this...I want one.....

:D

Kick, reckons it needs a machine gun attached tho :doh:

[Kickaha]

So I've ridden a sidecar that leaned - but it was a flawed concept,and not intended by the designer.I'd like to have a go on a more sorted leaning outfit.

there's this
http://www.armec.com/sidewinder.html

and there was one that both bike and sidecar leant over
(cant find it at the moment)

[Flatcap]

You could always get a Vespa Sidecar:

http://www.retroscooter.co.nz/accessories.htm

But you may wanna go fast.....

[pete376403]

there's this
http://www.armec.com/sidewinder.html

and there was one that both bike and sidecar leant over
(cant find it at the moment)

Dutch made Flexit about 10 years ago, don't know if still in production.
Eml make nice ones (however not leaners) but still very expensive http://www.emlsidecar.com/starteng.htm
eg this one is for a ZZR1100 (They don't mess about with little bikes)

[maybe]

I had a side car on an XJ 750 I had. Easy to bolt on 3 connection points, still was easier for 2 people to do this. Took a bit of getting used to the way it handled specially on roads like the Rimutakas.
Had a lot of fun with it though ,had it in one Christmas parade in Lower Hutt. That was in 2003.