SCU Last night - food for thought

[BigB]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering how many of you saw SCU (serious Crash Unit) on TV2 last night.

Was mostly about a 18 year old guy on a suzuki bandit who ran into the back of a truck on Bush Rd north shore and killed himself.

A really tragic accident as at the end of all the investigation the cause of his death was put down to him not using his front brakes at all.

The guy was in a 70kph zone on a corner, the truck was turning across the road and he ran into the back tryes. There was a 29m skid mark from the rear tyre but no indication that the front bakes had been used. A police bike was used to re create the accident and it was worked out that with the use of front braking he should have stoped within 15m.

The guy had raced cars in europe and was a good CAR diver, but at the time of the accident his car and been impounded for 28 days for speeding. So he got himself a bike and hadn't been riding for very long.

It really shows the value of doing a basic motorbike riding course for learners, maybe then he would have known that on a bike 70% of your braking is done with your front brakes.

any thoughts


:( :(

[Duke of Rogan]

I didnt see that part of SCU, came in late and caught the 2nd half.

but, as a rider who has only just got his 2nd bike 2 months ago after a serious incident about 4 years ago, it hasn't taken me long to remember "don't touch the rear brake too much!"

during my first few rides after getting the bike I found the back wheel locking up too often when stopping quickly in heavy traffic, even though I know the front brake is much more effective.

but I guess if your are completely new to bikes, and your first close call requires heavy braking, your brain is going to tell you to slam on the picks with your feet (espically if used to high speed car braking)

my rear brakes have an annoying squeal that I don't think I'll fix in a hurry 'cos it reminds me that I'm using them.

[MikeL]

Yeah I saw the whole programme. Very tragic and avoidable accident. Several things contributed to the death, including the environment (70 kph zone with inadequate visibility), and most prominently the rider's inexperience (as a car driver it would have been instinctive to put the foot on the brake for an emergency stop - I did it a couple of times and was lucky not to go down). But there was also an element of sheer bad luck - from the computer animation it would seem that he came off and slid along the road before hitting the truck wheel; a foot or so to the left or right and he would have gone straight under the truck and out the other side possibly without serious injury. However judging from the sneaker shown on the roadway it doesn't look as if he was wearing much protective gear apart from the helmet. What surprised me was that by all accounts he was not exceeding the speed limit - just shows how we prejudge people. As soon as I heard that he was a bit of a petrolhead, having raced cars in Indonesia I think it was, I jumped to the conclusion that he would have been speeding. At least I judged one thing right - as soon as they mentioned about the 70 kph speed limit having been a factor, I predicted that this stretch of Bush Rd will be down to 50 before long. And so it will be.

[Slim]

I saw it too.

My only thought to those already expressed is that emergency braking obviously needs to be addressed better in the "skills & handling" courses learner riders have to take before they can sit the written & aural learners test.

And definitely to encourage learner riders to take further training (and perhaps bring down the cost of it, so that more will be inclined to do it).

[Kwaka-Kid]

hmmm... Well i didnt manage to catch SCU unfortunatly, but understand what has happen from what you guys have told me.. my thoughts are as follows :)

i believe in TOTW it says most new riders tend to prefer the rear brake because when using the front brake the whole front end of the bike dips, which apparently they dont like?  Its understandable but surely, this guy had a motorcycle? i.e he would have (im not sure when he got his licence and what was in it then) done the motorcycle specialist questions, where you must know that 3/4 of your braking power is on your front brakes.  or somthing like that anyway, but what im trying to say with that is that surly if its printed in their you would tend to believe it? yeah? -because thats how i taught myself, from coming off old trail bikes i was always touch to hardly ever touch the front brake, ans basically just engine brake and rear slide, because in slippery mud etc its hard to control a front slide which happens to easy, then it is to handle a rear slide (your doing it half the blimmin time).  Its also where i learnt about counter-steering come to think of it its written in the road code believe it or not.  So my question is, did this guy have a licence? or was it an old one?

Its really unfortunate and sad to hear about, and hopefully many other soon-to-be-riders will have watched SCU and realised this.   - oh and lastly, was it wet?

Such a shame, on the accident note we had a motorcyclist come in to work (auck hospital) luckily with only 2 broken legs (i think) @ like midnight, after randomly deciding to throw a pillion on and have some fun in the middle of the night in the rain!  slide off and hit a power pole... also a recent rider.. possibly rear brake problem? not sure, i wasnt the one talking to him, but some definate education is needed.  Maybe @ the LTSA after they say you passed ur licence (Learners) they could sit you down and just have a breif education session? i dunno, or free sessions once a week?

[Dave]

I dont think this guy had a bike license at all,also that piece of bush rd is 50km/h.Its just down from north harbour hire and during the day it is a very busy congested piece of rd.
I feel sorry for the poor driver of the truck.

[Slim]

Originally posted by Dave
I dont think this guy had a bike license at all,also that piece of bush rd is 50km/h.Its just down from north harbour hire and during the day it is a very busy congested piece of rd.
I feel sorry for the poor driver of the truck.

He had a motorcycle licence, although I'm not certain what level.

[Nouseforaname]

My personel opinion is that more needs to be done to teach new riders about the effects of riding a bike. I went and got my licence with no experience at all and instantly i was on a bike. Nobody told me about what happens when u hit a corner too fast and hit the front brakes, as a result i highsided and ended up in the forest just outa whangamata, luckily managed to crawl away without too many serious injuries.... and this was 2 weeks after getting my licence. At the end of the day nobody was to blame for that accident except me, but i damn well wish i had that knowledge before hand. All in all, u learn from ur mistakes, but on a bike there is some very very simple things that u can do wrong and end up in the shit. Just my thoughts :-) Then again i am pissed and listening to Guns n Roses.

[Marmoot]

I didn't watch the SCU.
But, the guy was a very close friend of mine.

He does have experience on a bike (aprilia RS125 on racetrack fun ride only).

That Bandit he got was only 1 day old. He got it from a north shore dealer a day before that tragic event. I suspect there is something wrong with the brake (since I have met similar problems with 250 bandits brake before). They are a bit on the weak side, and not to mention suspension problem.

But, I also believe rider factor accounts for most of the cause. He was a reckless naughty boy, if you want to say it that way. He was actually a good guy, but a bit reckless in riding/driving/living sense.

Well, nothing else to say, really. Except that that thing hopefully serves as a reminder (especially to younger and beginner riders) that we are not ten-foot-tall and bulletproof in our little closet we call helmets.

If all else, I hope his death does some good merits in reminding us.

[andy1]

yes i saw scu, one thing. how did they know that he didnt use the front brake? (did i miss something) can they test the brake pads or something??

[Redstar]

well there has to be a logical rational for having two discs on the front and one rear?
its unwritten law that most of the braking is on the front?
but it was not always that way. yonks ago the back brake was built to do the major work and the front to feather out the stop.
and if you debate the rule with an older classic biker they might even convince you to try it. but then bike only really did 100klm/hr and had car tyres on the back. its common knowledge with modern sports bikes that the rear brake is for feathering control of the skid and the front brakes are the main show.
its all down to science I think.
I stole a 750 CBR (sort of borrowed) once and it had no front brake and pulling up on he rear only was shall we say interesting!

[Slim]

Originally posted by andy1
yes i saw scu, one thing. how did they know that he didnt use the front brake? (did i miss something) can they test the brake pads or something??
There was only one skid mark from the rear wheel. If the front wheel had locked up too, there would have been two skid marks (and probably no accident to investigate in the first place).

The other thing was that there was a wear patch on the rear tyre from where it locked up, but no such wear on the front tyre at all.

They also did skid testing with a police motorcycle, which would have clarified these points, along with the shortened stopping distance if the rider had used both brakes.

[Kwaka-Kid]

hmm, well he might not understand this.. because he has a point, you dont need to lockup the front brake to be braking hard on it.  but i guess they test from any reminense of rubber in the tarmac generally inline with the rear skid i you know what i mean, also they can workout how he hit the truck, and that with some front braking maybe the slide would have been different... im not sure myself actually but yeh.

And marmoot, fair enough in bringing up the point that the brakes/suspension could have been faulty, altho i find that very hard to believe... just come outta a bike shop? without front brakes? also SURELY that wasnt the first corner/time to slow down he had come to right? like surly coming to a red light etc he would have at least been tempted to try and see what that right hand lever does? and if it did nothing take it back or somthing? its only logical.

and about the suspension, i dont think itd b shoddy @ all, all i can say is i ride around on a 1978 gs1000 atm with next to no forl oil in left fork and who knows how much in right fork, it literally bottoms out nearly each time you use the front brakes and possibly if you enterd a corner hard too.  But i take this for weekend thrashs (okay only 1 so far thats been able to call a thrash) and i dont come off in corners.  I have crap all experience myself and dont consider myself a particularily good rider, but despite all this i do live and i am quite sure even the worst example of a Bandit 1200 out there with the most poked forks is likly to be better then the GS and many other old bikes that we have fun on.  I purely put the crash down to rider error - and the resulting loss of life down to very bad luck (having a truck there and all).

But yes, it certainly has made me think, and keep @ the snail pace i typically keep at on the street.

[Racey Rider]

I saw the programe. And it did seem he didn't use the front brake from the tests they did. I agree, it's hard to tell if he did or not, as you can but a lot of pressure on that front brake without it leaving tyre marks on the road. They seemed to think he was traveling at 70k (which was the speed limit there at that time). Which was jugded by the leagth of the back tyre skid, but that presumes that he didn't touch the front brake doesn't it? He could have been going a lot faster than that, and use the front brake as well, which slowed him down enough to make it look like, 70k and only the back brake used. Does that sound like a possability?
Who knows! In that sort of situation, one might think that a inexperienced rider, if he did use the front brake, would grab such a handful that it would lock up the front wheel as well, and start the fall off slide process earlyer.

[andy1]

yes, i think he did use the front brake but didnt lock it up, and was going faster than 70km. and then he didnt think he would stop so he used the rear brake and locked it up. we will never know! it happened about 1 and a half years ago. so they have changed the speed limit there.

[Marmoot]

Mind you, KK, I've tried a couple of bikes OUT OF one dealer in North Shore which have some critical flaws such as: (1) had non-working speedo (isn't it compulsory?), (2) had bent front wheel, (3) spewing all the engine oil to the road just after 1km from the shop, and (4) the front brake DID NOT STOP THE BIKE AT ALL WHEN I PRESS IT.

You can't trust dealers for second-hand bike. You have to test it yourself.

[franco]

Originally posted by Marmoot
I suspect there is something wrong with the brake (since I have met similar problems with 250 bandits brake before). They are a bit on the weak side, and not to mention suspension problem.

Hey - can you elaborate on the brake/ suspension problems ? I'm really interested as I own and ride a 2000 model Suzuki GSF250 Bandit.

I've owned other 250's (a venerable '81 Honda CB250RS :), and a '91 Suzuki Across :p). I've also ridden some other bikes between them all. I guess of all of the 250's I have ridden, the Bandit's brakes seem to work pretty good, and suspension seems ok (for what it is).

PS. Going on about better learner rider training, the best $350 I ever spent in safety (after helmet, boots, gloves, jacket, etc) was on a http://www.stayupright.com.au training day at Manfield (Fielding). Even though I had the only 250cc on the course (alongside R1's, CBR600's, etc) - but boy was it worth it. My cornering and braking skills improved by 300%. Tackling the Rimatakas went from oooh scary to wee heee fun. It's a shame that this type of training is not more commonly available / accesible for all learner-riders.

:rockon:

[Kwaka-Kid]

far out marmoot - thats friggin crazy!

honestly think thats mental, and that the owner of the shop should then be up for like charges, i.e is there an Attempted manslaughter? :P hehee, coz if you ask me thats what it damn near is.  Secondly some good has come from the programme, i explaind it to my 2 mates who have just bought 2 bikes (the honda vs kawasaki post) one cbr250 one zxr250 both really nice - and they honestly (or one of them) thought that nearly all the braking should be done from the rear brake :o coming from dirt/farm bikes etc.  Scarey thought, but now he knows and his mate does and is practising using the fornt brake mostly :) - he is having one trouble and asked me for tips which i didnt really know what to say, he says he finds slow corners really difficult, and i think i know what he means, and i dunno but experience is i think what did it for me? and getting used to the bike and how far u can lean going slow? not sure - anybody got good advice?

[Racey Rider]

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
...he says he finds slow corners really difficult, and i think i know what he means, and i dunno but experience is i think what did it for me? and getting used to the bike and how far u can lean going slow? not sure - anybody got good advice?
If he leans far enough to cause falling off, :stupid: :doctor:

----- don't lean that far next time! -- Experience!! :buggerd: :rolleyes:


And I see, with that ever-so-helpful bit of advise,,
I progress from "L-plate rider" to "Scooter boy" :banana: :banana: :banana:

That must make me a better rider on the track!! :yes:
Where's the "Party on" smiley face?? :rockon:

[SPman]

Originally posted by Marmoot
Mind you, KK, I've tried a couple of bikes OUT OF one dealer in North Shore which have some critical flaws 

Riding my new purchase home from one North Shore dealer, I heard this noise - a bit like stones being flicked against the guard, looked down - and the F**king front brake caliper was hanging by one bolt about to fall out! - 5 km from BP road!

Ferrying another bike home from the dealers, for a friend, bloody near ran up the arse of a truck on the bridge when I tried to use the brakes!:argh::argh:

All the stopping power of a well used fly paper - I was very aware of it, but a newbie may have thought this was normal and very quickly have run into strife. (or cars...or trucks..)

To be fair, when we took the bike back to the dealer, they fitted a new master cylinder and braided lines free of charge (thank you Mike, at Red Baron) Stoppies the order of the day after that!

[Dave]

The serious crash unit guys would have said in their investigation if the brakes were defective.THE ROAD IS 50KM/H!!! where he crashed and he was speeding.Besides if he had left a 30m skid with the rear tyre and had been braking hard with the front i think the numbers would work out that he was going over 200km/h which ain't going to happen on a small bike on that road.

[bluninja]

Guys, just a question arising from the comments about defective bikes from dealers... don't people do a thorough visual inspection of the bike before getting on, and then check, lights, horn, indicators, brakes, suspension before setting off?

I was taught to do a 2 minute check before riding (don't always do it), and I normally check the brakes again on the road, within a 100 metres of setting off just in case they work, but aren't stopping as I expect. I even check the brakes on my race bake before putting it on the trailer.....last time the lever (defective new pattern that SLIM put on for me) snapped in my hand.

TTFN

[Dave]

thats why i like GP bikes, my bike gets a full strip an rebuild between races,including the engine.-and you'd be surprised at some of the things that wear out/fatigue during riding.

[Coldkiwi]

I remember the idea of doing a 2 minute check on the bike each time before riding... but there's no way I'm doign that when i commute on it every day and its my main form of transport. I'm alwasy running late as it is, bugger another 2 minutes down the tube each time!

My theory is that if it is checked and cleaned/maintaned reasonably in the weekend, there is no need to be paranoid about it each day. What sort of confidence would i have if I was worried about the brakes falling off because I hadn't checked the bolts for 24 hours? pretty stupid really

 

[bluninja]

CK, I know what you mean, but you probably do most checks on your bike without even knowing. They're so much part of your routine. Like you don't check for leaks of fluid, or flat tyres specifically, but you would notice leaks etc as you went to your bike. You'd also notice as you sat on the bike, if the suspension or ride height was really out......and if you are someone who still pulls the brake before engaging first, you would know there was nothing seriously wrong with the brake.

BTW it's only since living in NZ that I've got my own car and don't commute by bike....so I know how precious 2 minutes can seem.

TTFN

[Slim]

Originally posted by Dave
The serious crash unit guys would have said in their investigation if the brakes were defective.THE ROAD IS 50KM/H!!! where he crashed and he was speeding.
He was not speeding. That road was posted at 70km/h at the time of the accident, which was clearly shown in the TV programme several times.

It's probably been reduced to 50km/h as a result of this particular SCU investigation.

HTH

[Coldkiwi]

this is true blu... some prick was letting air (not all of it but some) out of my tyres during work a few weeks ago and I knew straight away because I know exactly what it should feel like.

on the real topic here...

I dunno if the guy was speeding or not... but skidding for around 70m has GOT to take some speed. maybe his spanky new tyres were just too new as well.. but that's still an awful long way to skid  and to be honest... at 70mkhr I just don't think the bike would have enough kinetic energy to do that even on new tyres.

the other part of the problem was that this guy probably wasn't applying the age old 'look where you want to go' rule. He probably freaked out at the truck and panicked (and focused) about hitting the wheels (small target as previously mentioned) and that's why he went into them instead of looking for an escape route and taking it.

[Slim]

Originally posted by Coldkiwi
I dunno if the guy was speeding or not... but skidding for around 70m has GOT to take some speed. maybe his spanky new tyres were just too new as well.. but that's still an awful long way to skid   and to be honest... at 70mkhr I just don't think the bike would have enough kinetic energy to do that even on new tyres.
The speed limit for that road was 70km/h.

The skid mark lenth was 29metres.

[bikerboy]

Stop picking on Coldkiwi. As an engineer he probably knows some special unit of measure called mkhr . :o

That or he needs some sleep real bad ! :D

[Kwaka-Kid]

nice spotting CK, i rode my CB250RS for first time scince November last year, rode all the way to the gas station with 5 pounds in front and 10 pounds in rear... i had forgotten what it felt like and it felt alrite till i checked, put them up to anywhere around30ish(bah pushed pump in for few seconds and if i saw 30ish on dial i left be) and man did it feel twitchy! but yeh, shows how u can forget what a bike feels like, felt 50kg lighter! and nah, i havnt botherd to check the pbike over scince i crashed it properly, do it my way... wait and see.  It can cause lots of adreneline and excitement and at least you have an excuse to blame it on if u get all that excitement! :P  -oh i checked chain. and adjusted it.

[Quaker]

Guess what, SCU on thursday night is showing another motor cycle crash.

Does anybody know how this programme is funded?

Tax payers dollars? or one percent of all motorcycles registration cost?

 :angry2:still fuming about being ripped by ACC.

[Dave]

seriously slim,That road has been 50km/h since it was diverted about 10 years ago for an industrial area to be put in.They stated his speed at 70km/h but he was speeding

[Duke of Rogan]

Originally posted by Quaker
Guess what, SCU on thursday night is showing another motor cycle crash.

Does anybody know how this programme is funded?

Tax payers dollars? or one percent of all motorcycles registration cost?

 :angry2:still fuming about being ripped by ACC.

agree.

I believe the governments (local and national) are conspiring against motorcyclists, espically in Auckland

a person who commutes to work on a motorcycle:

a) uses less fuel == less taxes
b) cannot smoke in heavy traffic == less taxes
c) does not always need to pay for parking == less taxes

but still must pay more for their vehicle registration!

:brick: :bash:

[Dave]

Its a conspiracy-Fuck'em,lets blow them all up!!

[Duke of Rogan]

:ar15: :eek5:

If this was the states, the FBI would be on to you by now.

if it was summer maybe a weekend rally / protest ride to the capital would be a bit of fun.
I can't carry many bags of fertiliser on my bike though...

[MikeL]

Just when I was beginning to think that my paranoia was fading...
But hey, let's not churlishly disregard the fact that we have been graciously granted the privilege of using the green bus lanes:p

[Duke of Rogan]

only south of the Harbour bridge can you use the bus lanes, but not on the North Shore or on any motorways.

see RedStar's poll "Bus lane transit NZ"

[Slim]

Originally posted by Dave
seriously slim,That road has been 50km/h since it was diverted about 10 years ago for an industrial area to be put in.They stated his speed at 70km/h but he was speeding
The programme showed 70km/h speed limit signs for that road, and the cop on the programme also mentioned the speed limit being 70km/h a couple of times too.

Are you thinking of the right road?

PS: Don't talk about bike registration to me! A $275 LTSA bill showed up at my house, which means that the WOF is due to expire too & I'm staring a $600 bill for new tyres down the throat! :angry2:

[Duke of Rogan]

Originally posted by Slim
Don't talk about bike registration to me! A $275 LTSA bill showed up at my house, which means that the WOF is due to expire too & I'm staring a $600 bill for new tyres down the throat! :angry2:

you should tell that Bill guy from LTSA to stuff off and go see anyone of your neighbours with their dirty jap-import diesel 4x4, fuel guzzling SUV (as the yanks call them), and a car for each of their teenage kids.

[750Y]

some prick was letting air (not all of it but some) out of my tyres during work a few weeks ago
WTF??? 8-(
as for a shop on barrys point rd...
I know of one which was selling a bike(never been down) that was twisted.
I hope this weeks scu will show a motorcycle involved in the most common type of accident. ie one where the car was at fault. I don't want the public believing that motorcyclists are out of control speedsteers much in the same vein as boy racers are described. seriously there is no credit given to either where there is actually a lot of skill shown by the majority and porobably more than the average tv waitching cage driver could comprehend. the fact is that boy racers and motorcyclists are probably more skilled and 'switched on' to travelling on the road from a skills and awareness perspective than any other demographic on the road not forgetting truck drivers and cops too.

[Coldkiwi]

yeah, i don't understand why someone would let SOME air out either... it was about 10 pounds on 3 occasions... really bizarre but it happened on my 250 last year once as well. I doubt very much it is someone from our office (14 people, all fairly sane and no one I have trouble with) .. but its pretty damn dangerous!!! It would make more sense to me if they flattened them completely although I'm glad they didn't cause that would've been a real P.I.T.A!

I agree... it would be nice (ok, not really.. but more appropriate) to see a dumb-ass-cage-driver vs some poor guy on a bike and for the program to highlight the deficiences of the average driver!!

i think the idea that boy racers and motorcyclists are more 'switched on and skilled' than the average road user has to be balanced by the fact that we generally travel faster as well, thereby heightening the risk if something unusual happens in a hurry. I'm sure that if most of auckland's cage drivers tried to drive the open road like many of us ride bikes it would end in about 100 gorey episodes of SCU.. but whether we are any safer is another matter

[750Y]

good point about who is the safest CK, I would imagine that motorcyclists are the least safe demographic on the road, and 'Boy racers' are probably not as 'safe' statistically as the average cage driver either.

[Dave]

Thats what used to piss me off about the 'women are better drivers' add campaign that was on t.v. last year.
-Statistically they might be in less accidents,but superior car control-I think not.
-don't recall any women ever making the grid in an F1 grand prix!

[750Y]

here's a test, next time Your lady is driving You in town or a busy stop start area etc. turn the stereo right up with some pumping rock music etc. and then start doing distracting things like fiddling around in the glovebox etc. and looking over Your shoulder and out the window etc. & say stuff like 'careful' or shout 'there's one'(a parking spot) or 'over there' just watch what it does to the general concentration and quality of driving. It's called multiprocessing and it's an interesting experiment that always gets me laughing.

[Coldkiwi]

hehe... I've managed to fluster my g/f something chronic by doing that just as the lights go green!

i.e.

"GO GO GO!! THE LIGHTS ARE GREEN!"

*clutch gets let out very quickly and nearly stalls*

"GO GO GO GO" *also anxious looks in rear view mirror for 'impatient drivers'*

*clutch in and out so quick that it stalls*

"OHHHH NO! COME ON COME ON!"

*we finally start to pull away with me in a great mood and her to embarrassed to say anything!*

ahh.. ain't love grand :)

[Duke of Rogan]

LOL! :D

I've been slapped/punched on more than one occasion for pulling on the handbrake while my g/f (now wife) was taking a corner in the wet.

I must say it was completely safe, and I had had a couple of drinks (I was the passenger) :apint:

still good fun.

[Kwaka-Kid]

you mean you guys actually let ur mrs's drive whilst ur in the car?! :P haha i hope only as a sober driver in the rarist of circumstances :p hah

no sorry to mitch, bayb, and bestfun (are there more watching?) im only kidding :)

[Coldkiwi]

yeah.. my g/f is a good driver.. comes from a real petrol head family (her dad owns a mint '81 Corvette stingray) but she's about as far removed from a westie as can be imagined! *phew*

she's a shocking navigator though. routinely takes wrong turns in the 10 minute drive to my place and has no concept of direction or the shortest route between two points! her prefered route (which is also claimed to be very direct?!?!) is generally in the shape of a U or three sided square!!!

 

[Coldkiwi]

Well, I watched the bike crash on SCU last night.

Not very typical but you've gotta feel sorry for that guy.

for those of you who missed it, he was a 44 yr old and very experienced rider had a minor off a few dyas previously. Complained of headaches and some swelling but didn't get it looked at.

Doing 75-80 kmhr in a 50 zone but appeared to have blacked out beforehand, no skid marks, just carnage for about 40metres down the road as he gets flung off the bike through fences, shrubs, off a low concrete wall.... :(

 

I also watched "Road Kill", the Inside NZ special on road accidents. Not a very flatering picture of LTSA or Transit (surprise surprise) but the fatal CBR  crash was a sobering reminder to all of us who like to have a go on roads we may not know too well. doing 140kmhr through a corner posted 75kmhr.. not normally a problem if you know the corner and its in good condition but this corner was not sign posted very well and dropped away over the crest of the hill... poor bastard flew straight into the armco.

AMCC's motto should be learnt by all motorcyclists... 'use your speed wisely'

 

 

[karbonblack]

I also saw the program. It looked like he only used the rear. However, I know from my own experience (30+ years of bike riding) that in an emergency stop, I have the front brake on the point of lock-up, but do my best to stop it locking. For that reason, I think the SCU analysis is flawed.

Having said that, I think the SCU do a great job and they make some valid observations/recommendations.

Re the poor guy on the Bandit, his mother said he DEFINITELY knew about front braking so it wasn't a knowledge issue. I have done advanced rider training, even spent time on the track (Philip Island rocks by the way) but the best way to learn IMHO is spend time on a trail bike and fall off a few times.

[franco]

Yep I saw that SCU last nite too. Real bad luck. But like Coldkiwi, it was the Inside NZ Road Kill programme that really took my attention. Appears the govt spends the lions share of the road taxes on almost everything else but roads. Ok, a bit exaggerated...

PS. Re LTSA scare tactics - I know this is a motorcycle forum, but I also have a current subscription to NZ Autocar (it was a gift ok? plus they feature at least 1 bike review every month :)). Did anyone happen to see the LTSA ad near the back of the May/ June magazines? That gore goes way OVER the limit. The mag should have been censored to R18.

:argh: :sick:

[Quaker]

karbonblack

I have the front brake on the point of lock-up, but do my best to stop it locking. For that reason, I think the SCU analysis is flawed.


 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I totaly agree.

I know it might be slightly intimadating presenting your findings in front of a tv audience.

But some really seem like they are guessing. Not a good look.

Even though it would be hard having specialists in every area, you think they should try for our sake. You could go to jail for a mis-reading.

I have traveled, driven/riden on roads around parts of the world, I believe we have almost the worst roads anywhere.....almost. Some of islands have worse.

The design is heavly flawed. I won't go into the processes they manufacture roads with in Auz. But we could learn alot from them(as much as I hate to admit that).

I can't think of anything better riding around on what could be a race track.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :done:

[SPman]

Originally posted by Dave
-don't recall any women ever making the grid in an F1 grand prix!

Lella Lombardi back in the 70's, driving a March I think.She unfortunately died of cancer at a relatively young age.

[Slim]

Originally posted by franco
Yep I saw that SCU last nite too. Real bad luck. But like Coldkiwi, it was the Inside NZ Road Kill programme that really took my attention. Appears the govt spends the lions share of the road taxes on almost everything else but roads. Ok, a bit exaggerated...
I don't think you've exaggerated at all. 50% of $2.2billion that should be going to the maintainance/construction of safe roads in this country is definitely a "lions share" and it's galling that they put this money in the "general" (privy??) government purse to pay social welfare, health, etc, etc instead! :angry2:

This subject has shown up reasonably regularly in the AA Directions monthly letter from the Chief Executive over the last few years. They're not impressed either.

It's just a shame that they didn't pin the Minister of Transport down about this specific question. :confused: