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svs
15th March 2007, 17:58
Well, I'm seriously considering getting an adventure bike and doing some serious travelling on it. things have changed for me personally so now i might have the opportunity to do this sort of stuff.

Now I've only ever owned road (and race) bikes before, never really done much in the way of back road /green lane/ gravel/ off-road stuff.

The plan is to do NZ as much as possible, then across oz (cairns to perth) and then we'll see after that (europe anyone?). The time frames for this are in the next couple of years.

So where do you start? Bikes. Looking at xt660r, older xr650l, klr650 and transalp. beemers are too expensive for what they are. Any advice appreciated. Or should i just start out on a cheaper whatever off tardme then decide what's best after a few months and trade it in?

This year I'm still concentrating on the road racing, but after that and in between? who knows?

far queue
15th March 2007, 18:14
Have you read this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33922) and this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28824) ?

Transalper
15th March 2007, 18:47
lol... second time this week FQ, you must have them links bookmarked nice and safe.

svs
15th March 2007, 18:52
read the first one, but more interested in how bikes would be for the long haul in terms of reliability etc. and how they handle the extra weight.

crazybigal
15th March 2007, 18:53
Depends what you want, do you want a big single? or a twin or even a tripple (triumph tiger) comes down to how much road work your going to do.
for me its would be hard to go from a blackbird to a KLR or DR, not enough power! and the other thing is your budget!
ive been thinking about it too and ive gone from looking at KLR's to transalps to what i now think is the best all rounder for me, the tiger 955i

Alltrax
15th March 2007, 19:08
Well, I'm seriously considering getting an adventure bike and doing some serious travelling on it. things have changed for me personally so now i might have the opportunity to do this sort of stuff.

Now I've only ever owned road (and race) bikes before, never really done much in the way of back road /green lane/ gravel/ off-road stuff.

The plan is to do NZ as much as possible, then across oz (cairns to perth) and then we'll see after that (europe anyone?). The time frames for this are in the next couple of years.

So where do you start? Bikes. Looking at xt660r, older xr650l, klr650 and transalp. beemers are too expensive for what they are. Any advice appreciated. Or should i just start out on a cheaper whatever off tardme then decide what's best after a few months and trade it in?

This year I'm still concentrating on the road racing, but after that and in between? who knows?
I'll sort you something bro....give MR Poo's a call!!!!! 0275MRPOOS
[0275677667] or flick me a email: cowpoos@xtra.co.nz

98tls
15th March 2007, 19:14
Oldrider had nothing but good things to say of his trans alp so if going that way give him a pm.........mind you i was talking to him the other day and saw his Tiger for the first time which was a hell of a good looking bike........he seems very happy with it and couldnt wipe the smile off his mush when showing it to me.............very nice bike...

svs
15th March 2007, 19:32
tiger or other big trailie too heavy. i want to be able to pick it up when i drop it in a ditch :)

Mr Poos - email on it's way

98tls
15th March 2007, 19:40
Just an afterthought..........ive read some good write ups on the yamaha 660.

svs
15th March 2007, 19:46
yeah. I was bit worried about all the new bikes having FI, but i guess in the long run they'll be as reliable as carbs, and carrying reasonable spares like injector and fuel pump should cater for most eventualities

far queue
15th March 2007, 19:50
lol... second time this week FQ, you must have them links bookmarked nice and safe.Maybe :whistle: I just think those 2 are really good threads that will most likely answer this question that gets asked on here frequently. If someone is new to this aspect of riding and really doesn't know too much about it, then those threads will probably answer a lot of questions for them, and maybe cause some more questions to be asked. There are lots of different bikes and riding styles discussed there. Just to be helpful as it's easy to do a search on here and still miss stuff.


read the first one, but more interested in how bikes would be for the long haul in terms of reliability etc. and how they handle the extra weight.How far off road to you intend to venture?


Depends what you want, do you want a big single? or a twin or even a tripple (triumph tiger) comes down to how much road work your going to do.Yep


for me its would be hard to go from a blackbird to a KLR or DR, not enough power!You don't need lots of power adventuring, it's not like you're going to be doing road speeds in the rough stuff. But again it comes down to where you want to ride.


ive been thinking about it too and ive gone from looking at KLR's to transalps to what i now think is the best all rounder for me, the tiger 955iThey're all good bikes ... depending what you want to do with them.

So, SVS, what sort of terrain do you want to take it on ?

98tls
15th March 2007, 19:53
yeah. I was bit worried about all the new bikes having FI, but i guess in the long run they'll be as reliable as carbs, and carrying reasonable spares like injector and fuel pump should cater for most eventualities would imagine so.........just as a side note to that i was on another forum the other day and a guy was having real problems with a fuel injected bike....cant remember where it was but in the middle of nowhere somewhere....it was an altitude thing and it was running like shit.....he was doing the round the world thing and was something he never considered when he set off from blighty...........i would imagine he would have the same problem with carbs although you could adjust yourself............

far queue
15th March 2007, 19:54
tiger or other big trailie too heavy. i want to be able to pick it up when i drop it in a ditch :)Then you want a DR650 or a KTM LC4. They're at the lighter end of the big single dual purpose bikes. An XR600 or TTR600 would probably be lighter still, and more off road oriented/less on road oriented.

pete376403
15th March 2007, 20:20
KTMs may have long term reliability issues - even KTM themselves didn't want to supply bikes for the "Long Way Round". I'd also consider the repairability of computer controlled EFI systems in the middle of nowhere.
Referring again to "Long Way Round" - having the biggest most powerful bikes didn't make it easier for them anywhere except on the motorways.
I'd go for the least complicated bike that could carry the load - either the DR or (I'm biased cos I'm getting one) the KLR.
You should also checkout www.advrider.com which has huge amounts of info about adventure riding

svs
15th March 2007, 20:28
..it was an altitude thing and it was running like shit.....he was doing the round the world thing and was something he never considered when he set off from blighty...........i would imagine he would have the same problem with carbs although you could adjust yourself....


I thought the FI was supposed to be self adjusting which is why it was better than carbs. carbs always set up as a compromise, but FI should be able to map for whatever



How far off road to you intend to venture?


To start with, not far - just all the gravel roads, but building up to a trip from cairns to perth through the outback, than after that we'll see.



You don't need lots of power adventuring, it's not like you're going to be doing road speeds in the rough stuff. But again it comes down to where you want to ride.


No. I got fast road bikes for that. I'm wanting to tour and go places I can't go on a road bike. I'm happy going slow too.



They're all good bikes ... depending what you want to do with them.

So, SVS, what sort of terrain do you want to take it on ?

Basically whatever gets thrown at it :) Not going to be wanting to do MX style terrains, but gravel roads, back blocks, dessert :) just want something that's reliable, can carry me and luggage and be just generally competant allround. Not asking for much, but the newer bikes all seem to be more road orientated, both the KLR and XT marketing gumpf seem to push the "now better on road" message and i'm not sure that's a good thing. Odds are if I'm travelling far then I'll be after a new bike. Might try a second hand one first though.

far queue
15th March 2007, 20:30
KTMs may have long term reliability issues - even KTM themselves didn't want to supply bikes for the "Long Way Round".Yes, but wasn't that because KTM thought the lads wouldn't make it, not because the bikes wouldn't. A bit of a PR blunder there, a golden opportunity missed by KTM.


I'd go for the least complicated bike that could carry the load - either the DR or (I'm biased cos I'm getting one) the KLR.I'd have to agree about the reliability of a simple aircooled, carburetted bike, although of course I'm biased as well.

svs
15th March 2007, 20:32
KTMs may have long term reliability issues - even KTM themselves didn't want to supply bikes for the "Long Way Round". I'd also consider the repairability of computer controlled EFI systems in the middle of nowhere.
Referring again to "Long Way Round" - having the biggest most powerful bikes didn't make it easier for them anywhere except on the motorways.
I'd go for the least complicated bike that could carry the load - either the DR or (I'm biased cos I'm getting one) the KLR.
You should also checkout www.advrider.com which has huge amounts of info about adventure riding

there are plenty of things that can be terminal with a carbed bike too. I think carrying the right spares should mitigate most problems. However, there's always the possibility you'll get stuck, no matter what bike/spares you have.

LWR was good to watch, but it's one of the reasons why i don't want a big heavy 1100. and i not going to have a van full of support crew following me everywhere.

I'll have a look at the KLR when you get it then. i just down the road from you now

98tls
15th March 2007, 20:35
I thought the FI was supposed to be self adjusting which is why it was better than carbs. carbs always set up as a compromise, but FI should be able to map for whatever. Am guessing thats what he imagined but as he said not so..........wasnt a case of anything icing up it just ran like shite way up high.............

far queue
15th March 2007, 20:39
Basically whatever gets thrown at it :) Not going to be wanting to do MX style terrains, but gravel roads, back blocks, dessert :) just want something that's reliable, can carry me and luggage and be just generally competant allround. Not asking for much, but the newer bikes all seem to be more road orientated, both the KLR and XT marketing gumpf seem to push the "now better on road" message and i'm not sure that's a good thing. Odds are if I'm travelling far then I'll be after a new bike. Might try a second hand one first though.The KLR is a pretty good bike, I dunno about the latest ones, but my mate doesn't seem to have any trouble punting his older one through the rough stuff, and it goes well on the road. If you're going desert you'll want a decent sized tank - the KLR come with 23L, the DR only has 13L but IMS make a 21L and Aqualine make a 28L for them. Different versions of the KTM also come with varying sized tanks - the KTM LC4 Adventure has 28L I think. Warewolf will know the answer to that one.

svs
15th March 2007, 20:47
I'll add the KTM to the list. like the fact it has kick start as well as the electric.

pete376403
15th March 2007, 20:53
Kick start assm from a KLR600 can be fitted to the later 650s - assuming you can find the bits.

pete376403
15th March 2007, 20:57
Thread hijack



LWR was good to watch, but it's one of the reasons why i don't want a big heavy 1100. and i not going to have a van full of support crew following me everywhere.
I'll have a look at the KLR when you get it then. i just down the road from you now
if you liked LWR you'll love Race to Dakar.
I'll post here when the KLR turns up - supposed to be between now and the end of the month.

We return you now to your scheduled programme

svs
15th March 2007, 21:20
if you liked LWR you'll love Race to Dakar.

We return you now to your scheduled programme

downloading now :innocent:
as you were.

NordieBoy
16th March 2007, 06:35
Sounds like a DR650 with seat, tank, screen would do the job nicely.

sels1
16th March 2007, 07:17
The BMW F650 Dakers, as used by the Silkriders (http://worldbybike.com/silkriders/ ) would be a pretty good allrounder but they are a bit more expensive. The good thing about BMW is they have a dealership in nearly every country for when it comes to getting bits.
Other than that I dont think there is that much difference in the Jap 650 singles...DR, XT,etc see what fits you best or what comes along at the right price.

cooneyr
16th March 2007, 07:31
Sounds like a DR650 with seat, tank, screen would do the job nicely.

I'd second that (although I'd bias as well). If you are looking to get a second hand bike to start out on and upgrade once have got a bit more experience then the DR is nice and cheep and reliable. Biggest issue would probably be fuel tank although Clark (18 l???), IMA (18l about $550-600 NZ from US of A) and Aqualine (28l) all make bigger tanks. Other issue would be how much weight you want to carry. I'm about 105kgs and with gear (15kgs worth) I reckon the rear shock is not really up to much rough stuff - okish on flat though. The rebound on the shock is too week but this can be solved with racetech valving (about $170US per end i.e. forks and shock). Other things is the seat - I did a 730km day last weekend and found it to be alright but others cant stand it - there are plenty of options with this though. Wiggly off road tracks seriously help with this though. Lastly there are various years 98-99 and 01-02 (is that right FQ?) that have minor issues. The 98-99 needs a torque limiting gear (which is in all other years) between starter motor and flywheel - very simple to do. The 01-02 has a not so flash barrel base gasket that can leak. All other years have a metal base gasket that is fine.

Personally I'd test ride the KTM LC4 adventure if you can find one but check with Warewolf re issues with them - minor issues like bearing replacements etc as I understand it. Good tank, suspension, brakes, nice motor etc etc but bit more dosh and rear as hens teeth. Suspension more tunable than the DR which is important if you want to load up with gear.

Other bikes I'd look at are the KLR and XTR. I personally recon the KLR and XT-R are a bit too much of a road compromise but then again I've never ridden them. For gravel roads and fire breaks I get the impression they are fine. Other thing is that as far as I know the XT-R is not imported into NZ but is available in Ausi.

Cheers R

far queue
16th March 2007, 09:06
Other issue would be how much weight you want to carry. I'm about 105kgs and with gear (15kgs worth) I reckon the rear shock is not really up to much rough stuff - okish on flat though.Ahh, but you are known as the human crane though. I’m 74kg and find the standard rear shock fine once adjusted to suit. I have added spacers to the forks to stiffen them up a bit though.


Other things is the seat - I did a 730km day last weekend and found it to be alright but others cant stand it - there are plenty of options with this though.I replaced some of the stock foam with softer stuff. That plus use has made the seat quite good now.


Lastly there are various years 98-99 and 01-02 (is that right FQ?) that have minor issues. The 98-99 needs a torque limiting gear (which is in all other years) between starter motor and flywheel - very simple to do. The 01-02 has a not so flash barrel base gasket that can leak. All other years have a metal base gasket that is fine.Yep, that’s right.

svs
16th March 2007, 09:19
Sounds like a DR650 with seat, tank, screen would do the job nicely.

like this one (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-91894200.htm)?


Other thing is that as far as I know the XT-R is not imported into NZ but is available in Ausi.

Cheers R

Motorad/Sawyers are getting one in. It might end up as a demo

cooneyr
16th March 2007, 10:07
Ahh, but you are known as the human crane though. I’m 74kg and find the standard rear shock fine once adjusted to suit. I have added spacers to the forks to stiffen them up a bit though.

Thats not my fault - I blame that on my daddy. LOL


I replaced some of the stock foam with softer stuff. That plus use has made the seat quite good now.


Given the above comment I'd add firmer foam.


like this one (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-91894200.htm)?
That is an RS version where as we mostly have SE versions. The RS is rare(er) and is more aimed at road riding with the larger tank and fairing etc etc. Don't know if the frame suspension etc is the same but suspect it is. Only thing about that one is it looks to have the pre 96 motor (complete redesign in 96) based on the clutch cover even though it say is it is a 97. I could be completely wrong though. If in tidy condition the price is not to bad.

Have a look at DR650 info on this page. Actually according to this there are no RS versions from 96 on so would be dubious of the 97 year (must be year of first reg) and it probably has the pre 96 frame and suspension which I know little about. Engine is suppose to be revier and less torquey and bike over all is heavier.

http://www.suzukicycles.org/All-Suzuki/all_suzuki_models.html


Motorad/Sawyers are getting one in. It might end up as a demo

Glad somebody is finally doing it!

Cheers R

far queue
16th March 2007, 11:05
Only thing about that one is it looks to have the pre 96 motor (complete redesign in 96) based on the clutch cover even though it say is it is a 97. I could be completely wrong though. If in tidy condition the price is not to bad.Yes, it's a pre '96 model. Those photo's are taken at Dirt Action, in which case it's probably the same bike I saw in there a few months ago, in which case it's in very good condition, but it's also bloody heavy. I was surprised at the weight of it, having just hopped off my DR.

warewolf
16th March 2007, 11:06
Hmmm, we can theorise for ever but really what it boils down to is what lights your fire? All the suggestions here are good, buy the one you lay awake at night dreaming about. Virtually all bikes in the class can be adapted to what you want, some require more adapting than others.

If you haven't ridden much gravel, then you probably won't have much idea of what you like. And as you learn, what you like & want changes. Consider turning over a few bikes in the short term to find what you like and develop your skills before launching into a RTW trip. Or just buy something, f@ck off and learn as you go - either approach works. :yes:

Any bike will require suspension tuning to your weight & style. Higher quality suspension lasts longer, usually is cheaper to service/tune and typically has a bigger pool of tuning knowledge and parts availability. Apart from working better out of the box. Suspension tuning is a boom industry, there are now lots of people making cheap improvements to the most basic suspension.

A few words about the KTM: I bought the KTM because I didn't want to do much adapting. I've added heated grips, rewired low-beam to stay on with high-beam, removed an unnecessary front disc, swapped out the shock linkages to lower the bike 28mm and shortened the stand to suit. That's it, except I'd like some bracing/heat shields for the soft luggage.

Out of the box, apart from the obvious good dynamics, it has a comfort seat, 25.5L tank (good for 480km general riding, 495km during the Dusty Butt!!; the earlier bikes and the rallye have 28L), effective fairing & headlights, bash plate, hand guards, a dual-map ignition that handles either 95RON or down to 80RON (only parts of Siberia go down to 78?RON, lots of Africa, Eurasia, South America do mid-80s), and good wide metal footpegs with rubber inserts. And you can buy rallye stuff from the catalogue knowing it will work well.

Two critical weaknesses on the recent bikes: pre-2003 there is an engine/gearbox bearing that needs replacing, it was a warranty fix, retrofitted cheaply, 2003-on done by the factory. And it seems 2005-6 models have dodgy cam follower bearings that fail between 15-35,000km. Not enough info out there yet to know the extent of the problem. Every bike has a couple of these kind of niggles, eg KLR's doohickey.

The only other issues are minor; the rims are very soft, the air filter is too small for the engine so it needs regular attention, and most recent bikes develop a cam cover leak above the LHS exhaust port (readily fixed with the correct strength sealant). Everything else is fluff and bother - stuff you're gonna fiddle with on any bike.

In terms of reliability, I did a fair bit of research. I found so many stories of supposedly bulletproof Jap bikes grenading for no apparent reason that I figured luck was more important than the badge.

The aforementioned advrider.com (http://advrider.com/) is excellent, as is Horizons Unlimited (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/). For tech info, sites like KTMTalk (http://www.ktmtalk.com/) are good. Find one or two for your chosen make/model. There are plenty out there.

Oh, and try to do some dirt training courses too. You are the best value upgrade on any bike.

Lastly, enjoy your journey!!

NordieBoy
16th March 2007, 11:21
like this one (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-91894200.htm)?

I e-mailed him about that one.
They stopped making the RS after the 1994 model.

chris
16th March 2007, 13:59
i want to be able to pick it up when i drop it in a ditch :)
DR 650. Next!

svs
16th March 2007, 14:01
If you haven't ridden much gravel, then you probably won't have much idea of what you like. And as you learn, what you like & want changes. Consider turning over a few bikes in the short term to find what you like and develop your skills before launching into a RTW trip. Or just buy something, f@ck off and learn as you go - either approach works. :yes:


thanks for the info. everything in this thread and PM's is helping me along the way to figure out what i want. I think I'm going to cycle through a few bikes and decide what i like and just get out there.

XF650
16th March 2007, 20:19
Sounds like a DR650 with seat, tank, screen would do the job nicely.

Aren't you describing a Suzuki XF650 Freewind?

Transalper
16th March 2007, 20:24
The Freewind only got a 19 inch front wheel, lots more plastic and paint and weighs a lot more so i'd say no, not describing a Freewind.

laRIKin
16th March 2007, 20:46
KTMs may have long term reliability issues - even KTM themselves didn't want to supply bikes for the "Long Way Round".

I think that the main reason that KTM were not keen, was that it was still a new model of bike to them and a bit unproven.
KTM have a habit of releasing bike quickly to the production line and use that as a testing ground. (in the real world and real owners and conditions)
But they do repair and back up their product.

I have had a few KTM's and love my 640E.
As I can put it on the MX track and ride it on the road.
I mainly ride mine hard on the off road tracks as the guys in CH.CH know.
As far as a good off and on road bike goes I will rate the 640 as one of the best.
The down side is that they do cost more, but you are getting more for your money.

Now the DR 650 is a good bike as well and is under rated by some.
But for me as I have both in the shed I will always be riding the KTM640E as I find the DR650 a good bike, but to soft and road going for me.

As I always say, Ride them all if you can and buy the one YOU like and suites YOUR needs.:scooter:

NordieBoy
17th March 2007, 09:02
Aren't you are describing a Suzuki XF650 Freewind?

Who'd be silly enough to buy one of them?

:p

far queue
20th March 2007, 14:32
I'll add the KTM to the list. like the fact it has kick start as well as the electric.


Personally I'd test ride the KTM LC4 adventure if you can find oneLook what I found when I went for a wander at lunchtime - a brand spanking new KTM640 Adventure. Here's (http://www.motox1.co.nz/) their website, although for some reason the bike isn't listed there.

You'll have to excuse the poor photo quality - it's the best I could do in a crowded showroom with a cellphone.

cooneyr
20th March 2007, 15:44
Look what I found when I went for a wander at lunchtime - a brand spanking new KTM640 Adventure. Here's (http://www.motox1.co.nz/) their website, although for some reason the bike isn't listed there.

You'll have to excuse the poor photo quality - it's the best I could do in a crowded showroom with a cellphone.

Better I don't know about these things. I'll be all grumpy and annoyed for weeks now - unless anybody wants to give me $17k :innocent:

Damn lotto!

Cheers R

orange dog
27th March 2007, 00:40
I was the same, all road/race bikes, wanted to get more offroad. Brought a KLR650 ($5000) which was a good bike at the time for taking wife and dog on sealed road or 4wd tracks but was a little heavy for proper offoad and too pedestrian on-road, should have got a large XR instead.
With the wife home looking after the kids I got the KLX400. Can go anywhere now but road cruising limited to 110km (speed AND distance) :shutup:

Suggestion - get somethin cheap and common, get out there and you will soon find out what you are really after without losing a pile of dosh.

rick27
8th April 2007, 21:18
Well, I'm seriously considering getting an adventure bike and doing some serious travelling on it. things have changed for me personally so now i might have the opportunity to do this sort of stuff.

Now I've only ever owned road (and race) bikes before, never really done much in the way of back road /green lane/ gravel/ off-road stuff.

The plan is to do NZ as much as possible, then across oz (cairns to perth) and then we'll see after that (europe anyone?). The time frames for this are in the next couple of years.

So where do you start? Bikes. Looking at xt660r, older xr650l, klr650 and transalp. beemers are too expensive for what they are. Any advice appreciated. Or should i just start out on a cheaper whatever off tardme then decide what's best after a few months and trade it in?

This year I'm still concentrating on the road racing, but after that and in between? who knows?
Gidday SVS!
I see that you are considering the XR650L as a touring bike.
I would recommend this bike as a suberb off-road touring option. They are not imported into NZ new anymore, but theres plenty of older models available second-hand.
I recently crossed Australia on a 650L, through the middle, from Perth to Cairns, and it certainly did the job for me!

XP@
9th April 2007, 01:03
Way late in the day, but I have some loose change I can spend on this subject.

You don't need "A bike" you really need "2 bikes".
Never ridden off road before, then you are going to enter a whole new world of fun (and pain). If you don't drop your bike in your first few excursions off the tarmac then you ain't trying hard enough.

So if you get a shiny new plastiky dual purpose bike you will be so poo scared of scratching it you ain't going to have any fun. The more you worrying the tenser you become the more chance you have off falling.

If I was going to start off road again I would get an old, light weight moto-x pref with electric start. Ride this bike for a while (remembering to disconnect the battery BEFORE welding the bits back on).

The one thing I would recommend is good armour. I cracked one knee guard and put a nice dent in an elbow guard. Would probably have been broken bones without them.

Then when you confident with a bit of rough play go buy a bigger toy. The comfort argument is your choice some say the KTM hurts after a few km's, ask Warewolf he knows what 1600kms feels like on his KTM. On the other hand, my Transalp eats the road kms with more comfort than a trail bike or a sport. But off road my lunch break will be a lot shorter than the true trail riders, but still i can go off road :-)

svs
10th April 2007, 21:25
Gidday SVS!
I see that you are considering the XR650L as a touring bike.
I would recommend this bike as a suberb off-road touring option. They are not imported into NZ new anymore, but theres plenty of older models available second-hand.
I recently crossed Australia on a 650L, through the middle, from Perth to Cairns, and it certainly did the job for me!

That your mates bike on trademe then?

rick27
18th April 2007, 13:50
That your mates bike on trademe then?

Nah, not that I'm aware of. Three of us crossed Aussie on XR650L bikes, and we've all still got them.

Zukin
18th April 2007, 17:22
Nah, not that I'm aware of. Three of us crossed Aussie on XR650L bikes, and we've all still got them.

One of your mates was trying to sell his XR on Trade me a while back, it even had the website link

Cheers