CB250RS café racer project

[xwhatsit]

Well, it's started. Engine's not done yet, no no no; but even if it still leaks oil and is a bitch to start, by the time I finish the project I'm beginning here it will just be in character.

This thread is going to be like a log, or journal. I know a KB blog would be slightly better for this, but nobody would ever read it and all I really want is to be loved :D

Well anyway, I've begun. Got two packages today; a pair of classic bar-end mirrors from the USA via eBay, and a pair of GB400/500 clip-ons via Trademe.

The bar-end mirrors are lovely. They arrived first, so I fitted them to my original bars. I had to cut holes in the grips and pull a plug out of the left bar (the right plug disappeared after my crash). I flipped them down, so the mirrors were hanging below the bars for a really low profile. Very pretty, I thought; however the glass was that horrible magnifying stuff, so the single cylinder thumps made them next to useless at low revs (not that I use mirrors much; I turn my head mostly).

While I was down in South Auckland getting some machining done on a tap, I picked up my package from the post-office. GB400/500 clip-ons; the left one bent. This was an arsehole of a job. Dropped the forks down the triple clamps so I could sneak the clip-ons in-between the clamps, got them on, tightened them up -- oh shit, they're too big! Rode somebody else's mountain bike down the road (cor! hard work) and bought a can of Coke, which I couldn't drink; emptied the can, then cut it up for use as a shim for my too-skinny forks (thank-you Zen and Art! One of the few practical things in that book). I don't like it; it seems dodgy, and isn't quite thick enough -- I had to do a few loops of aluminium can, and I can tighten the locknut all the way up without too much sweat. However the bars seem secure. They're way down the forks, otherwise they interfere with the indicators -- further than I liked. Took the bike for a spin along `my' waterfront (GiJoe knows it now) -- you feel like some Manx lunatic even below 70kph. Awesome sensation of speed, and very flickable. I can see I'll look like Quasimodo after a few kms, but hell, I'm young.

I've read on the internet about shimming clip-on bars with proper shimming metal. You can buy it in sizes. I want some of this stuff -- where can I buy it in NZ? And does anybody know how wide CB250RS forks are? I don't have calipers, and used dress-makers tape to make an inaccurate circumference which gave me about 33mm or something. Haynes makes no mention.

So yeah, I've got the first few things on my list done. Next up is a headlight and instrument cluster; the square ones looked period along with the rest of the bike and the old bars and mirrors, but now they look quite ridiculous. My research suggests a CB250N headlight would work quite nicely. Saw a gorgeous replica Smith Chronometric Speedometer on Trademe (quite a few on eBay too), but the price was astronomical. Don't think I need a rev counter; I know the noises and pitch of the engine, and it gets quite breathy up top anyway, so I'm in no danger of red-lining the engine without knowing it. Will of course need some little indicators too, which I think you can attach to those universal headlight mounting brackets (which clip on to the forks, too) I'll need for a headlight.

After that; the seat. This will really transform the bike's looks. Of course, with that, comes a lot of work -- tail light, indicators, number plate, mudguard (do I need one?). At some point I'm going to dump the battery. Oh yeah, pod filter and exhausts. Bidding half-heartedly on some Dunstall replicas on Trademe. Hope I can nab them for cheap. Bike's already lean as it is, so I'll really need to do some carb work. Maybe get an XR250/350 carb? Lots of jets and things for those. Would get a Keihin FCR if I were a millionaire :D.

P.S. Yep, I'm wearing that `Hallenstein's' jacket I crashed in infamously, but no, I didn't wear that on the bike. Save your safety nazi comments -- Quasimoto has had me kitted up on his purse for a while now, bless that man!

[xwhatsit]

Oh yeah. You think the tank will look really out of place if I leave it standard? Kind of reticent to change the tank; not cheap, and not easy to do.

Planning to make everything bolt on/bolt off for things like WOF so I conver it back to standard -- although I could most likely get away with many things, like the clip-ons and headlight.

[gijoe1313]

You rock. As you were soldier! ... must spread bling around like a blingwhore before blinging blingee... :doh:

[El Dopa]

Coming along nicely.

The nekkid bandits have round headlights with indicators each side, thru the mounting clips. Might be worth keeping an eye out for one of those at a wreckers, or Trademe.

[What?]

I don't have calipers,

Buy some. You can get a perfectly adequate set for around 30 clams. You will use them plenty on your project(s), and they may save you wasting time and money on stuff that doesn't fit.

[xwhatsit]

Bandit, Bandit, Bandit, Bandit. H'ok. Don't forget.

$30 for a set of calipers? I asked my Uncle about his, and he said he bought them for some astronomical price... I suppose that was a long time ago, lol :D Alright, I better pick up a set then.

Ta.

[jonbuoy]

Nice project there. Auckland Engineering Supplies (AES) sell shim steel but its not cheap - probably as much as you payed for the clip ons. You definately don't want them moving around or dropping on forks. How about raising the forks (or dropping the Yolks) through the clamps and fitting them on top of your yoke? As long as this doesn't mean your forks bottom out you should be safe. It would take some of the strain off the clip ons as you will be pushing them down onto the yolk. Also there is a threaded hole on the bottom of them you might be able to make a locking bolt and clamp to stop them moving around.

Cheers

John

[HenryDorsetCase]

I have a magazine somewhere where a guy did a straight bolt up with a XR500 motor into a CB250RS frame. absolutely minimal work required. I will try and find it. think of the torques you would have. HP wouldnt be much different I wouldnt think.

also, thats cool that bike.

You might also pick up a pair of GB400 forks for cheap or a whole front end.

a pair of cheap - ish measuring sticks can be had from places like George Henry or your local engineering supplier. I have Kinchrome pair which are perfectly adequate for what I use them for.... we arent tool and die makers (least I am not) or aeronautical engineers, so cheapish is generally adequate.

[xwhatsit]

Nice project there. Auckland Engineering Supplies (AES) sell shim steel but its not cheap - probably as much as you payed for the clip ons. You definately don't want them moving around or dropping on forks. How about raising the forks (or dropping the Yolks) through the clamps and fitting them on top of your yoke? As long as this doesn't mean your forks bottom out you should be safe. It would take some of the strain off the clip ons as you will be pushing them down onto the yolk. Also there is a threaded hole on the bottom of them you might be able to make a locking bolt and clamp to stop them moving around.

Cheers

John

I thought about putting them on top of the yokes -- would drop the front of the bike, too, might look quite cool. Would still be worried about indicator clearance issues, but it might be OK on top. Don't think the forks would bottom out -- you can see where the fork leg has been going up and down the fork (it's smooth there, compared to the top which is slightly pitted).

Yeah I only want a tiny bit of the shim metal -- just enough to go once around the forks on both sides. Found a couple of places, but they seem to sell it by the square metre :mellow:. What do people recommend for making an `expander' or whatever like this that is thicker (say, 2 or 3 times thicker) than aluminium coke can? Maybe I should resell the clipons -- the left one is slightly bent (although I just adjust it further forward and it's perfect), so I got them for quite a good price I thought -- then buy some proper ones. I think my forks might be 32mm?

Do you mean the threaded hole in the bottom of the clipons? My ones have got this funny star-headed bolt in them, I don't know what it's for. I don't think I'd have a problem with them moving around so long as I got some proper shim stuff and could really crack them down tight. Another thought that just popped into my head -- the headlight clamps you see for forks often have rubber inserts. Would this work on clipons? Don't imagine it'd move around at all. The only bastard would be getting the stuff in -- might have to pry the clipons open with a screwdriver, as the rubber would compress down.

Cheers. Seeing your CB750 was the inspiration to get off my butt and do something with my girl.

[xwhatsit]

I have a magazine somewhere where a guy did a straight bolt up with a XR500 motor into a CB250RS frame. absolutely minimal work required. I will try and find it. think of the torques you would have. HP wouldnt be much different I wouldnt think.

also, thats cool that bike.

You might also pick up a pair of GB400 forks for cheap or a whole front end.

a pair of cheap - ish measuring sticks can be had from places like George Henry or your local engineering supplier. I have Kinchrome pair which are perfectly adequate for what I use them for.... we arent tool and die makers (least I am not) or aeronautical engineers, so cheapish is generally adequate.

Hahaha I was looking at a CB500RS conversion when I blew up my motor. Thought if I had to do an engine transplant, I might as well go the whole way lol. Managed to sort of fix the engine so it runs (still needs a lot of work), so that plan fell by the wayside. No, HP isn't much different -- about 35HP I think compared to 26-30HP for mine, but I imagine that the torque would be mountainous. I love singles!

Wouldn't mind a GB400 front end, especially as my front brake is pretty inadequate (always were apparently, from new). However I really doubt I'd be able to afford it; besides, flexing and twisting from the front end is just character, right? :D To buy an entire front end just to make my cheap clipons fit would be a wonderfully me thing to do, however.

I'll get some calipers after the girlfriend's b'day this Sunday. [Got her on the back of the bike around some quiet local streets for the first time this week -- she had a ball and wants to ride more! So getting a single seat may be a priority :D]

[jonbuoy]

Cheers mate,

31mm forks? If its the same as the nighthawks -

www.ohiocaferacers.com

Goto technical stuff and fork sizes - listed by diameters. Got lots of inspiration from these guys. Big isn't always best the CB400's and 350's these guys do are stunning - almost beautifull (Ok maybe thats getting carried away... you know what I mean though).

Cheers

John

[xwhatsit]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same as the CB[250/400]N, it was in the same year lineup as my bike for a while. Other parts look shared.

Cheers for that link -- the rearsets look interesting. After doing a motorway run today, I found my legs were far more comfortable on the pillion pegs. But that is in the current setup; once bars are where I want them, and I have a Manx-style seat, then I'll worry about where my feet are.

Just got a nice cheque from the Justice department (don't know why everybody complains about jury service being poor pay -- I got more than I do for my part-time job, lol), so I'll have a bit more to throw around once it clears. Would rather the engine is sorted first, though.

[avgas]

Get some Koni's (IKON these days) for the back - worth their weight in gold. And they are relatively heavy. Its almost compulsory on a cafe job.
Turned my gb from a commuting sack of crap to a wheel standing, good traction monster.
Also ditch that headlight (sorry if you have mentioned this allready - im drinkin), and get either 1 or 2 nice round chrome jobs.

[xwhatsit]

Get some Koni's (IKON these days) for the back - worth their weight in gold. And they are relatively heavy. Its almost compulsory on a cafe job.
Turned my gb from a commuting sack of crap to a wheel standing, good traction monster.
Also ditch that headlight (sorry if you have mentioned this allready - im drinkin), and get either 1 or 2 nice round chrome jobs.

Lol yes I am after some headlights. I think I'll stick to just the one headlight, not really after a streetfighter look.

Those Koni's sound delicious. Again, though, that'll have to wait til later on when I've at least got the bike running well and looking half-respectable. The standard rear shocks are horrific; FVQs, which are infamous (Fade Very Quickly).

[Bonez]

Lol yes I am after some headlights. I think I'll stick to just the one headlight, not really after a streetfighter look.

Those Koni's sound delicious. Again, though, that'll have to wait til later on when I've at least got the bike running well and looking half-respectable. The standard rear shocks are horrific; FVQs, which are infamous (Fade Very Quickly).Stuff the Konis( my prefereded twin shock btw), MDIs are dirt cheap and come in a variaty of combination springs. Dunstall rep (WFO marketed by Emgo as are the MDI shocks) mufflers should be available for around $120 or less from your bike shop.

Projects coming along. It's also worth considering "ace" style tubular handle bars.

[xwhatsit]

Stuff the Konis( my prefereded twin shock btw), MDIs are dirt cheap and come in a variaty of combination springs. Dunstall rep (WFO marketed by Emgo as are the MDI shocks) mufflers should be available for around $120 or less from your bike shop.

Projects coming along. It's also worth considering "ace" style tubular handle bars.

Yep, I'm bidding on some Emgo Dunstall replicas on Tradme. I'm hoping I can get a pair for less than one new one, as they're used.

MDIs, you say. Will look that up later. Judging by your previous posts, you are the man to talk to about old shitty Hondas and doing things relatively cheaply, lol.

I looked at Ace bars, or clubman bars, but decided it would be easy enough to just get some clipons. Pretty much the same thing; and if I put the clipons on top of the top yoke, the reach isn't so bad comparatively. It looks cleaner without the handlebar mounts as well.

[avgas]

Yeh i suppose MDI's would be fine on a 250 - as your prob only going to keep it a few years. Good call Bonez

[xwhatsit]

Yeh i suppose MDI's would be fine on a 250 - as your prob only going to keep it a few years. Good call Bonez

Nah I don't think I'll ever flog this bike off. It's not like I'd get great resale anyway, and I've become quite attached to it, especially once I complete this little project.

MDIs might not be Konis, but they've still got to be a hell of a lot better than the knackered FVQs on the back.

[FilthyLuka]

reverse cone emgo muffler... two of them... from motomail, bout $60 a pop if i can remember correctly...

[avgas]

Looks like i found a pillion peg from the gb - anyone want?

[xwhatsit]

reverse cone emgo muffler... two of them... from motomail, bout $60 a pop if i can remember correctly...

Yeah, that's what I'm after. Only $60 each? Cor I'll have to check out Motomail. Everywhere else is like $100-$120 each.

[xwhatsit]

Having these GB500 clipons with the beer-can shims and slight bend in left side is beginning to piss me off, so I've started looking around for some proper ones. Here's what I found: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CLIP-ONS-32MM-HANDLEBARS-DUCATI-MORINI-GILERA-MOTOBI_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35610QQitemZ1501 01765693QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Aren't they beautiful?

I've asked him how much the shipping will be, hopefully it won't be too horrific. If it's reasonable I'll get them. $US60 is nearly $NZ100, but they're handlebars, which is probably one of the most important human-interface bits on a bike, so I'll save up.

[Ixion]

Shit ! $100? When I was your age I made my own from an old pair of handlebars cut up and welded to a couple of scaffolding clamps. Total cost about 5 shillings.

[xwhatsit]

Shit ! $100? When I was your age I made my own from an old pair of handlebars cut up and welded to a couple of scaffolding clamps. Total cost about 5 shillings.

Yeah but were they pretty and shiny like these ones :love: I think I've caught Donor's disease, lol.

No they are simple things, I thought a couple of times about what it would take to build some, but I'm no welder (I don't own one either), and to have somebody fabricate them would probably cost almost as much.

I bet the guy who makes these is making a killing, selling them on eBay. Relatively cheap raw materials, and fairly simple construction.

Put in a bid on them. Including shipping, comes to a total cost in $NZ of $99.97 or something :D

[FilthyLuka]

do you have any intention of getting it (legally) on the road? cause if not, im sure you can make something silly using a xr650 engine and some shoe hornin :yes:.

[xwhatsit]

do you have any intention of getting it (legally) on the road? cause if not, im sure you can make something silly using a xr650 engine and some shoe hornin :yes:.

Yep, it's already on the road, it's my daily transport so I got to keep it legal. When I blew up the engine, before I knew what was wrong and if it were repairable, I investigated an XR/XL500 motor, which was a common modification back in the day. Looks pretty original too, I think I could get away with it. But I like the 250cc in it -- I've heard from at least a couple of people that putting the 500cc motor in turns a light, graceful, nimble bike into a little bit of a pig w.r.t. handling. I'd love to get a GB500 once I graduate university, and café it up too, then have the two thumpers; one 250cc, one 500cc. I'm no power maniac.

[avgas]

I'd love to get a GB500 once I graduate university, and café it up too, then have the two thumpers; one 250cc, one 500cc. I'm no power maniac.
Yeh im gonna get another 1 once i have bought a house. I reckon the third 1 will be a keeper as i have learnt so much with the first 2. fantastic bikes - them and the SRX6's

[xwhatsit]

Yeh im gonna get another 1 once i have bought a house. I reckon the third 1 will be a keeper as i have learnt so much with the first 2. fantastic bikes - them and the SRX6's

Met a guy at uni (made a drunken post about the bike after I saw it at One Tree Hill on Valentine's Day -- just met the guy for the first time at uni) with a GB500. He bought 15 years ago in Japan (he's Japanese), turned it into the one of the most beautiful bikes I've ever seen in the flesh, then shipped it with him to NZ when he moved here. What he did to his bike reads like the list of things I want to do to mine -- battery/airbox gone, silencer, seat, the list goes on and on. Gorgeous. And it sounds superb too, even though it's not deafening. That bike has me sold on GB500s and I've never even sat on one.

Top bloke. Rides around with a pudding bowl helmet and goggles haha. Said complementary things about my bike, recommended some techniques and where I can get some parts. Motomail (Ponsonby?) was recommended again. I really must check those guys out.

[Madness]

Check this out. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-92123798.htm)

yum yum yum

[Ixion]

Nice bike in its way, but it's no cafe racer. Cafe racer, more or less by definition, has clipon bars, rearsets, single (small) seat), minimal mudguarding. ie it looks as much as possible 9allowing for legal requirements) like a 1960s road racer.

EDIT. Something like this is fairly much the definitive article. Note that cafe racers never have fairings. Or windscreens.

[avgas]

1960s road racer.
You must be too young :) - i got told off for saying 1960's...turns out the whole ACE thing started late 40's early 50's.
Doing a ton under the bridge nearby was a common thing in the 50's. As were the cutlery chained to the tables.
So I've been told.
As for the TM auction, very nice - pity I've been told that the 650 was a dog. Mind due soon as i will lotto 1 of the 850's back home is getting the cafe' treatment.

[Bonez]

Yeh i suppose MDI's would be fine on a 250 - as your prob only going to keep it a few years. Good call BonezMent to be suitable for up to 750cc(old school of course) Bought a set for the GB400 and GSX750EX. Haven't tested the gasaxe ones out yet( one of the original shocks had too much striction for comfortable riding). Springs can be a bit stiff for lighter bikes. But its easy enough to change them over if needed. Turns out if I don't like them on the gasaxe I can swap the Konis on the CB550 over.

MDI make a variaty of replacement monoshocks as well.

[xwhatsit]

Wo0o0o0o0 for bungbung. I'm buying some XL250 instruments off him. They don't look exactly classic right now -- unless you mean in an 80s sense. But think it should be easy enough to have some new face plates printed up.

I like the fact the redline is at 8500rpm -- at least I'll feel comfortable revving out to the redline, hahaha. In general practice I avoid anything over 7000-7500rpm, a lot of vibes seem to appear, and I don't really feel like replacing bent valves again.

<a href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/photopost/data/500/DSC01274.JPG" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/photopost/data/500/thumbs/DSC01274.JPG" border="0" alt="Wo0o0o0o0o0"></a>

[TygerTung]

I've got a CB250RS which I race, well I've only done one event, well not really, the shitty old rotton exhaust fell off in the practice!!!!

Does yours like to rev HARDOUT? Mine does, the redline is at 9 I think, but it pulls hard around to about 11, which seems fine to me, did your one crap out or somthing?

If it starts to vibrate hardout it may be due to the balance shafts being wrong or somthing, I took mine out and it vibrates quite badly, I think I might put them back in....

If you are gonna get rid of that front mudguard let me know I'm missing one!

[xwhatsit]

I've got a CB250RS which I race, well I've only done one event, well not really, the shitty old rotton exhaust fell off in the practice!!!!

Does yours like to rev HARDOUT? Mine does, the redline is at 9 I think, but it pulls hard around to about 11, which seems fine to me, did your one crap out or somthing?

If it starts to vibrate hardout it may be due to the balance shafts being wrong or somthing, I took mine out and it vibrates quite badly, I think I might put them back in....

If you are gonna get rid of that front mudguard let me know I'm missing one!

I bought a CB250RS parts bike off another KBer a little while ago, so I've got plenty of parts. I've got a front guard -- will go and check the condition, give you a PM.

Mine doesn't like to rev heaps, really. It doesn't seem to make much more power after about 6000, so I don't bother stressing it beyond that. Around town it's happy sitting on 5000, changing gears at 7000 for quick acceleration. On the motorway I've had it up far higher, but that's only because the gearing seems quite low. Wouldn't mind changing the sprockets. It doesn't vibrate excessively, it's just it's normally fairly smooth up until 7000, until it hits some sort of `resonance'. If you get to 8000, the vibes seem to settle back down to normal. Racing would be a different matter of course.

If you need engine bits for your race bike, I've probably got most of what you need as well.

Would love to see a CB250RS racing! Wish I lived a bit closer so I could watch :D

[TygerTung]

Maybe there is somthing wrong with yours as they are a very revvy engine?

I don't need any parts for the engine at the moment, if you want a new piston go to www.motoequip.co.nz they are cheap! there.

I'll send ya some pics of me racing once I get it going!:scooter:

[Dodgyiti]

I think the tank and the seat lend themselves to the cafe style quite well.

Probably not good advice, but when I was a poor apprentice I once padded out some clip ons with beer can ali. Terrible eh?
Is there no way to file a bit off the clamping face to let them bind up more?
They better be really tight before you go riding. And jeese they look low, I know of a good orthopedic wrist doctor, PM me when you need him.

Cafe Racers Rule!

[xwhatsit]

I think the tank and the seat lend themselves to the cafe style quite well.

Probably not good advice, but when I was a poor apprentice I once padded out some clip ons with beer can ali. Terrible eh?
Is there no way to file a bit off the clamping face to let them bind up more?
They better be really tight before you go riding. And jeese they look low, I know of a good orthopedic wrist doctor, PM me when you need him.

Cafe Racers Rule!

The seat is definitely going -- I hate it, lol. It's very comfortable, the most comfortable seat on any bike I've ridden, but it just doesn't look right, so I'm trading it for a hard bit of fibreglass with some leather stretched out on it :D

You think I can pull off the tank? Me too -- if you close your eyes and squint a bit, it's got the same sort of profile as one of the 1960s Honda CRs :innocent:

I've got some Tommaselli replica clip-ons that are 32mm on the way from 'Merika, so then I'll be able to throw out my coke-can shims haha. They are bloody low though, you're right. I've actually got used to it now though. Quite comfy, as long as you're moving. At traffic lights I stick it in neutral and sit dead upright, like I'm standing up, so my back gets a rest haha. As I said earlier, though, the current position is just a compromise until I fix up the headlight/indicator arrangement up front.

Cheers :scooter:

[Dodgyiti]

The seat is definitely going -- I hate it, lol. It's very comfortable, the most comfortable seat on any bike I've ridden, but it just doesn't look right, so I'm trading it for a hard bit of fibreglass with some leather stretched out on it :D



Heehee, good onya. Practical is not in the cafe racer build list. But lightening and drilling out and discarding everything not absolutely vital kinda is..Your on the path to enlightenment, and don't forget that doctors number.

[xwhatsit]

Well, the stories you have heard about me are true; I am a tit.

Got my beautiful clip-ons today. Opened up the package to be greeted by mouth-watering shininess. Gorgeous things, wonderfully made. Anyway, pull off the old clip-ons, juggle the controls and forks and all that stuff around (horrible job). Put on the new ones... oh bollocks. They're too small.

Yep. So now we have the reverse of the original problem. By prying them open with a screwdriver, I could get them to go on as a very tight fit (had to use force to make them go down the forks). I can get the bolts in to tighten them up, but they only go in a couple of threads, and I don't like that one bit. Don't want to put too much torque on the bolts when they're gripping only a couple of threads.

What are my options here? I have the reverse problem now. Can I take the clip-ons to a machinist, and have him bore out perhaps half a mm? I think there's enough meat, please correct me if I'm wrong. I've enclosed a photo from the ebay auction, so you can see if you think there's enough to chew out.

Longer bolts wouldn't help, as the problem is the thread and the opposing hole the bolt tightens on to are at different angles because they're stretched open.

I would really like to avoid buying a new pair, or trying to swap these -- it wasn't cheap to buy them, and shipping takes forever. Can it be done?

[xwhatsit]

Oh yeah, by the way, this time I dropped the triple clamps down on the forks, then put the clip-ons on top of the clamps. Had to use reams of Nitto tape to secure the headlight assembly (why did Honda use such an ass-backward way of holding onto the headlight + indicators? What's wrong with fork clamps?).

Feels weird to be sitting up so high now, lol. Still lower than the original bars though. A side effect of dropping the bike down through the forks is that it's changed the geometry slightly; the forks now have a steeper rake, and the bike now has brutal turn-in. It pitches you screaming towards the apex without you even having to think about it. Quite fun in it's own hair-raising way. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Probably will increase the chance of a tank-slapper, so I'll keep the front wheel on the ground (has it ever been off the ground?), and once I've got new headlight + headlight clamps I'll put the forks where they should be and the bars just under the top clamp.

[Ixion]

Personally I'd get one of those little grinding wheels you put in an electric drill, and carefully take a bit off the inside . Or one of the "wrapped in emerypaper cylinder" gizmos if you can't find a grinding wheel wide enough. Half a millimetre is only 20 thou that's not much to remove. You caould do it with a rattail file (or even a half round) if you have a good hand and eye.

Also, can you take a few thou off the staunchion, using a strip of emerycloth run around the staunchion and pulled back and forth ?

[xwhatsit]

Personally I'd get one of those little grinding wheels you put in an electric drill, and carefully take a bit off the inside . Or one of the "wrapped in emerypaper cylinder" gizmos if you can't find a grinding wheel wide enough. Half a millimetre is only 20 thou that's not much to remove. You caould do it with a rattail file (or even a half round) if you have a good hand and eye.

Also, can you take a few thou off the staunchion, using a strip of emerycloth run around the staunchion and pulled back and forth ?

I've neither a good hand nor a good eye. Playing french horn ruined both :) I'll find one of these grinding wheels you speak of.

I'm not overly keen on playing with the stanchions as I'm not completely sure yet where I'll put the bars yet.

Ta for the advice. Half a mm should be sufficient, as that would make the bars the equivalent of 1mm bigger, and that seems to be heaps if I've gone from 34-35mm to 32mm with such a vast difference. These 32mm ones are much closer.

Thanks to Spankme for not booting me off his site for being such an utter twat :innocent:

[Ixion]

Meh, half the fun of such a project is dealing with all those little quandries that arise

(In reality, of course, it's not fun at the time, it's a proper pain in the tit. But, once done, you can put on side about "the problems I overcame" and wax pontifically and smugly . Which is fun)

[xwhatsit]

Meh, half the fun of such a project is dealing with all those little quandries that arise

(In reality, of course, it's not fun at the time, it's a proper pain in the tit. But, once done, you can put on side about "the problems I overcame" and wax pontifically and smugly . Which is fun)

You, sir, speak the voice of experience. I'm already beginning to smugly tell stories about when I seized my top end, and crap on about how I wrestled the engine back together with my sheer manly brute strength. I must be becoming a biker.

[Bonez]

You, sir, speak the voice of experience. I'm already beginning to smugly tell stories about when I seized my top end, and crap on about how I wrestled the engine back together with my sheer manly brute strength. I must be becoming a biker.Wrestling a CB750 engine into the frame at 2 in the morning by ones self then removing and stripping it again is fun.

[jonbuoy]

Bugger mate - I see supercheap have some budget plastic verniers - might be handy for the future.

[xwhatsit]

Bugger mate - I see supercheap have some budget plastic verniers - might be handy for the future.

Lol yes. But when has anybody seen me listen to common sense?


Got a set of little grinding thingies from Mitre 10 today, that you just put on the end of your electric drill. Thanks for that advice, Ixion, never knew those existed before now.

Duct-taped up the trigger on the drill, plugged in the battery, sat on the driveway with the drill between my knees and ground the shit out of the RHS clip-on. Took AGES to make any difference -- did a test pass on the GB500 clipons I have (which carved out like cheese), but they seem to be aluminium and these are stainless steel, which is significantly harder. I got somewhere, kept bashing the clipon onto the fork, which showed me where the high spots were (
went from looking like brushed metal to smoother dark stuff), then ground those out. Finally got it ground down enough to tighten the bolts up. Now the RHS is rock solid. The LHS one still needs doing -- I ran out of time due to over-dismantling my throttle and spending roughly 20-30 minutes trying to get the cable reattached to the rotating bit.

Wo0o0o0o0o0! I've got proper handlebars! This is very exciting for me :D

[Dodgyiti]

Well done, some longer bolts for the clamps are not needed now?
As long as there is one thread sticking out the end of the nut is ok when tight.

I am loathed to tell you there is a Moto-Guzzi guy that sells Tommaselli stuff in NZ. He can sort you out with the headlight brackets to match the clipons, just biff that Honda item out and get a chrome H4 aftermarket light, and some blingdicators as tiny as they make them to go either side of the light. Might as well get 4 so the rear ones match (about $30 a set Trade me- MrsMojo)
A Mk1 Guzzi fairing new is $90 + screen $60 + brackets x 2 = $23
Total= $173
Result----->>

[Dodgyiti]

Note that cafe racers never have fairings. Or windscreens.

Then what is a Dunstall Norton, Hyde Triumph, Moto-Guzzi Mk1 LeMans, Egli Vincent, Harris CB750 etc etc

I view Cafe Racers as stripped, drilled and lightened with rearsets and clipons. Some bikes need the bikini fairing because the gauge pod is unable to function after a splash of water, ahem... especially DodgyItalians

[xwhatsit]

I tend to agree with you there, Dodgyiti, w.r.t. the fairings. Although perhaps a pure café mightn't have a fairing, the very small bikini ones seem to have slipped into the lexicon. I don't think I'll have one myself, I like the super lightweight look.

That's a cool looking Guzzi there, Dodgyiti! It's not yours, is it? Don't be loath to mention the Tommaselli guy, do you have some details for him? If the brackets are $23, that's diddly squat, really.

Where does one buy an aftermarket chrome H4 light?

[Ixion]

The cafe racer was a product of the 1950s and 60s. The Ace itself closed in 1969, the end of the cafe era and the end of the cafe racer era. Bikes in the 50s and 60s, even racing ones did not usually have fairings. There were a very few rare exceptions (the Vincent Black Knight, and the Velo Veelines) but they were designed for protection from the elements , not speed.

There's no reason why you CAN'T put a fairing on a cafe racer, but it departs from the purity of the genre. Same as eg a Honda four cylinder. Nothing wrong with it, but the true cafe racer has no more than two cylinders.

Most of the examples you mention of "faired cafe racers" are really after the era, post 1969. I'm not sure what you would call them, Super Sports maybe.

[xwhatsit]

The cafe racer was a product of the 1950s and 60s. The Ace itself closed in 1969, the end of the cafe era and the end of the cafe racer era. Bikes in the 50s and 60s, even racing ones did not usually have fairings. There were a very few rare exceptions (the Vincent Black Knight, and the Velo Veelines) but they were designed for protection from the elements , not speed.

There's no reason why you CAN'T put a fairing on a cafe racer, but it departs from the purity of the genre. Same as eg a Honda four cylinder. Nothing wrong with it, but the true cafe racer has no more than two cylinders.

Most of the examples you mention of "faired cafe racers" are really after the era, post 1969. I'm not sure what you would call them, Super Sports maybe.

Dunstall isn't really café, is it? Strong caffeine-ish leanings, but it's really only some of the products they manufactured that were used for caffeinated bikes -- Dunstall Decibels :first:

Farings don't look out of place, though, at least in the modern interpretation of such a category. One would look strange on a Triton, I think.

I'm trying to get rid of as much shit as I can above the clipons. Hence, the speedo will be replaced with Bungbung's round one mounted where the original bars were attached. Headlight will of course be much lower. Mirrors are out of the way on the end of the bars. A fairing would spoil that. If I got one, it would only be for purely cosmetic reasons -- I don't tour far on my bike, and the wind makes me feel more connected to the riding experience.

Pod filter. EMGO reverse cone silencer. A re-jet, of course -- where can I find information on how much to increase the jet sizes?

I'd love to run a velocity stack, but that's probably not wise in terms of engine longevity.

[Ixion]

People used to mount the speedo on the fork slider. Legal, strictly speaking. Vulnerable, though.

[xwhatsit]

Lol, wot? How the hell am I supposed to see it all the way down there?

[Ixion]

Well, I think that the folk who did that weren't very concerned about seeing it. Just having one to comply with the law. Though Vincents used to mount it there as standard. But back in those days a speedo was an optional extra, cost you several guineas more if you wanted on. You still don't need one on a pre 1948 bike.

[xwhatsit]

Hahaha. I'd quite like to see mine, especially after my encounter with the policemen. Although I mostly know how fast I'm going by the sound of the motor.

True or false: a velocity stack, even covered in some metallic mesh, will kill my engine.

[Ixion]

By "velocity stack" do you mean a bell mouth? Why will it kill the engine? You may nee dto rejet and of course engine wear may be increased due to dust and grit and insects being sucked into the engine. Though I suspect that the problem is not anywhere near as bad nowdays as people think, now that we no longer have gravel roads (or the dreaded pumice)

[xwhatsit]

By "velocity stack" do you mean a bell mouth? Why will it kill the engine? You may nee dto rejet and of course engine wear may be increased due to dust and grit and insects being sucked into the engine. Though I suspect that the problem is not anywhere near as bad nowdays as people think, now that we no longer have gravel roads (or the dreaded pumice)

Yep, bell mouth thingie. Yes, I was worried about the complete lack of filtration.

Read a story recently about a scooter rider who bought for his first bike a beautiful balls-out twin-carb Triton :shit:. He used it to commute through London traffic (!?). It had bell-mouths on the carbs and he got scared about little children putting marbles into the intakes or something, so he put some steel mesh over them.

I do lots of oil changes anyway, due to the whole no oil filter thing, which would get rid of some of the shit floating around in the motor. I love the look of a naked carb, and having even less restriction to flow has got to help power somewhere. Probably only at about 10,000 rpm, of course.

[Ixion]

They usually had a coarse wire mesh. Mainly to prevent leaves and such like being sucked in.

The "factory cafe racers" such as the Norton International, BSA Gold Star, Velo Thruxton usually had an Amal GP carb (the GP stood for Goddamn Pig). I don't think I ever saw those with anything other than a bell mouth.

Main downside is extra cylinder wear from dust and grit.

[xwhatsit]

They usually had a coarse wire mesh. Mainly to prevent leaves and such like being sucked in.

The "factory cafe racers" such as the Norton International, BSA Gold Star, Velo Thruxton usually had an Amal GP carb (the GP stood for Goddamn Pig). I don't think I ever saw those with anything other than a bell mouth.

Main downside is extra cylinder wear from dust and grit.

Can possibly live with that. It'll need boring out eventually anyway (still on original bore), I doubt the presence of dust or not would vastly accelerate the time needed.

Well we'll see what's more expensive/hard to obtain, lol. Pod filter or velocity stack :D

[Mr. Peanut]

For some real fun, chuck in a CRF250 engine :done:

[Dodgyiti]

Well we'll see what's more expensive/hard to obtain, lol. Pod filter or velocity stack :D

Pod filters can be tricky to obtain the right size and fit -there are a number of options and some of them chrome :Punk:
Try scooter and mini chopper dealers for the bling ones, that is where I got some lovely Redline ones for 'er indoors's bike.

Go with the filters, winter is coming.
The Mk1 Lemans came out with velocity stacks and the head needed a re-con within 50,000 where other Guzzis with aircleaners went around the clock no problems

[Dodgyiti]

That's a cool looking Guzzi there, Dodgyiti! It's not yours, is it? Don't be loath to mention the Tommaselli guy, do you have some details for him? If the brackets are $23, that's diddly squat, really.

Where does one buy an aftermarket chrome H4 light?

Yep, I did that up for the last Guzzi rally and sold it just before Christmas, I bought another same model 2 days ago to pimp later.

motokiwi@paradise.net.nz Pete is his name, he has the fairings, Tommaselli parts etc, he even has a second hand Mk1 bikini if memory serves me correctly. Ya just internet deposit the funds and he sends it in 2 days if in stock, prices are very reasonable. Be nice to him, I need him! Daily!

Aftermarket chrome H4 H/lights are sold by Northern Accessories that nearly every bike shop has an account with, they can show you the different styles on their computer catalouge and you just choose one from that. I use Henderson Motorcycles as they seem to have a lower markup, less greedy than most.


I bought this on Friday-->
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1005506#post1005506
(it looks good in the pic, but it's a right bucket of s**t)

[xwhatsit]

CRF250 -- brief google turned up a 12.5:1 compression ratio, and about 35HP. Wo0o0o0o0o0o0! Sadly, no.

Cheers Dodgyiti -- I'll send an email to him. Yay for the internet! Beats paying shipping over eBay. Although that's the internet too. But you know what I mean.

Might ride over to Henderson, then. Need to visit my Nana anyway.

Yep, have seen those scooter pod filter things on eBay. Don't particularly want `bling', though. The only reason I thought of K&N was because they seem to be a respectable company. Yeah I suppose with all the rain and shit on the roads in winter a pod filter is probably not stupid.

Ta for the details! Some of these guys I think would get heaps more business if they advertised or set up a website. E.g., Eurodave's stuff looks absolutely gorgeous, but if it weren't for KB I never would've seen photos. Anyway.

It's alright. My bike not only looks like a right bucket of shit, but it is one too :D At least you've got one thing ^_^

No more rep for Dodgyiti until I spread it around more, apparently.

[xwhatsit]

$59 for the headlight brackets :shit:

Were those Tommaselli ones you got for $23, Dodgyiti?

[CM2005]

i've got a GP125 light, and indicators that come out the sides if you're interested?

[xwhatsit]

What does it look like?

I've been investigating this Northern Accessories bunch like was mentioned earlier on, they have EMGO brackets and headlights for not too much.

However right now I have to wait until I can walk before I start playing with my bike again :)

[CM2005]

what'd you do? here's a pic of the bike with it still on.

[xwhatsit]

Stuffed my knee, thread is somewhere around. Looks quite good actually -- while the smallness probably won't help me riding at night, it looks quite appropriate.

Is it desperately needing to be sold soon? I might wait until I can get up and about and check out these EMGO jobs (I do a lot of night riding, and the chrome ones look quite cool on the interwebs at least).

Thanks for the offer, will look into it :D

[CM2005]

I can hold onto it, but i'm selling all my other GP road bits to help fund my racing. found any cheap dunstall style meggas? i'm tracking down a GB500.... yay!

[xwhatsit]

I can hold onto it, but i'm selling all my other GP road bits to help fund my racing. found any cheap dunstall style meggas? i'm tracking down a GB500.... yay!

Ah, don't hold onto it on account of me, then -- I think I'd prefer to go with a brand new EMGO thing, with new reflector, as I ride so much at night.

EMGO seems to be a wonderful thing for me :D -- they make lovely Dunstall replica megaphones (long megaphones, long reverse cone megas, short reverse cone megas) for about $100 each. You see them on Trademe from time to time. I'd like to fit them as well but it looks tricky with the headers.

GB500!!! I love those things. I want one for my so-called `upgrade bike' once I get my full, although this CB250RS is not going anywhere. Good luck!

[CM2005]

Hi Xerxes, looking at the GB400 on tardme, what do you know about those? must be rather gutless compared to the 500 i guess? Its either that or a KLR600..

[Ixion]

The 500 obviously has more power. But some prefer the 400, finding its handling better balanced. and the 400 reputedly avoids the cylinder head probems of the 500. But Mr Spankme is the man to ask about GB singles.

[toymachine]

I've been drooling over that GB400tt on trademe... god I'd love that bike.

[CM2005]

hmmm, lol I'm still thinking about your VFR... dad doesn't want me to have it, but i want to build a "special"

[Bonez]

The 500 obviously has more power. But some prefer the 400, finding its handling better balanced. and the 400 reputedly avoids the cylinder head probems of the 500. But Mr Spankme is the man to ask about GB singles.Shouldn't be any difference handling wise, as they share the same running gear. The 400s can mix it quite well on tight twisty roads and seem to go a grand less price wise than the 500s.

Specs here- http://www.amy.hi-ho.ne.jp/tachi/english/gb400/spec_eng.html

[xwhatsit]

Hi Xerxes, looking at the GB400 on tardme, what do you know about those? must be rather gutless compared to the 500 i guess? Its either that or a KLR600..

I really have no idea, mate -- CB250RS represents the bulk of my meagre motorcycling knowledge. I do, however, know a guy who has a beautifully caffeinated version of the 500. Everybody I've talked to or everything I've read has been very positive about the GB400/500; supposed to be very flickable, very good handlers in a `classical' sense (i.e., not knee-down ultra-twitchy like a GSXR, but throwable and nimble and good at roadholding). The engine is also supposed to be a nice torquey lump despite being a modern oversquare single.

Don't think there's a huge difference in power between the 400 and the 500. The 500 is not massively powerful anyway. If you really were upset with the lack of power, throw in a NX650 Dominator engine (bigger version of the same engine), it's been done. Like Bonez said, apart from the engine, there's very little difference between the 400 and 500, apart from they made a version of the 400 with a fairing (MkII).

[avgas]

The 500 obviously has more power. But some prefer the 400, finding its handling better balanced.
I actually found the 400 a better bike, not for the handling, but revy'r engine. What the 500 has in thumper torque the 400 seem to make up in quickness up through the gears.
Overall its pretty much of a muchness. You really have to cover at least a couple of thousand on each bike to make a good comparison.
I found that once the suspension was sorted the 400 was almost the perfect balance of bike.
But in saying that the 500 has the nicer sound the better low down (400 was best above 2.5K)

[xwhatsit]

Well, thanks to El Dopa I now have a whopping big chrome 8" (210mm) headlight -- and hopefully some indicators if he replies to my text :) I was initially concerned about the 8" headlight until I saw some photos of a black Yamaha four-cylinder café racer that looked fscking awesome. Link will follow presently. Curious look, but it may work.

Oh yeah and I also fitted a speedo (cheers BungBung for the speedo, Buster for the aluminium to make the bracket, and GiJoe1313 for actually making and fitting the things). It looks a bit funny perched up above the square headlight, especially as it's upright, as the speedo cable won't go that tight an angle. However I've been alerted to a company called Robinson's Instruments (or somesuch) who make little speedo cable `adapters' that fit underneath the speedo and let the cable come in on a different angle. Will call them up.

Just now I bought some headlight brackets from Mt Eden ($38.95! Christ!). They fit my spindly little 33mm forks, but they're for 7" headlights, so I may have to bend them to fit, which is not ideal. We'll see. Mark said I could bring them back so long as I didn't tear the packaging to bits lol.

Oh yeah -- on the way back to uni from Mt Eden I saw Big Dave at the lights -- so busy perving at his Trumpy and pissing myself laughing at his suggestion I pull a wheelie off the lights I failed to see the light was green and earned myself a toot from a flash Beemer :lol:

EDIT: Here's the Yamaha Seca (?) with the big-bastard headlight on it. http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic//printertopic=1/t=3860/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0/finish_rel=-10000.html

[bimotabob]

Hi

Watch out with those GB type engines, many have exploded!
A few Honda's of that era are not known for lasting reliability.
I had a friend who blew up a GB400 and then his GB500.
Make sure you hear the engine running or at least inspect under the
cam cover.
A lot of it comes down to rider abuse and lack of oil changes.

Cheers
BB

[xwhatsit]

Hi

Watch out with those GB type engines, many have exploded!
A few Honda's of that era are not known for lasting reliability.
I had a friend who blew up a GB400 and then his GB500.
Make sure you hear the engine running or at least inspect under the
cam cover.
A lot of it comes down to rider abuse and lack of oil changes.

Cheers
BB

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>I think they have a plain-bearing head too like my CB/XR/XL, don't they? So yeah, oil changes very important. If you don't change the oil very regularly you'll end up with a bike that sounds like mine -- `tap tap tap tap'. Although mine was caused by the cam chain jumping off. I'm anal about oil changes.

At least they have an oil filter, unlike mine.

I always thought that apart from that, the XBR/GB lump was very solid. I know it's RFVC, but it's one of the later versions.

[xwhatsit]

Hallo kiddy-winks, check out my shiny pretty thing ;)

I've had all the bits for a wee while, but decided to wait until I got my new forks so I only had to do it once.

The electrics were a fiddly pain in the arse to detach then re-attach. Indicators proved to be a pain in the neck, because the originals used a frame-ground through the headlight bracket, which these ones don't -- two wires, and the headlight brackets are rubber-mounted so no go there. Found a ground I could wire into in the mess inside the headlight.

The 8" headlight and 7" brackets didn't end up being a problem. The Bandit headlight has thick rubber `washers' where it bolts to the brackets, so these just squished down to allow the minor angle to bolt up. Even with the bolts tightened up fully its possible to adjust the height of the headlight, which isn't very good, but I'll sort it out with some spiky washers or something.

It also seems that my little old CB has much more wiring than the Bandit 400 -- I seem to recall the Bandit only had a few plugs to undo. It meant that it was an utter prick of a job to actually put the headlight insert in; the wiring behind it took up too much room. It took a lot of fiddling to get it right, and it's still tight, so I hope nothing is under force.

I'm pleased with the look. With the much cleaner mounting system there's now a large empty space between the speedo and the headlight. I need to work out a better way of mounting the speedo lower and more angled.

Here's some pics. All hail my messy garage.
<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>

[tommorth]

did you this out to piha today? saw a grey tank with a big light and clipons

[xwhatsit]

did you this out to piha today? saw a grey tank with a big light and clipons

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Yeah I did :D Who were you? XR250? I saw a few motards blat past, very cool :yes:

[xwhatsit]

Attached new speedo. Made use of my boxes of CB250RS junk -- there's a little strip of metal with two threads at either end that attaches the toolkit to the bottom of the battery box. Stole that from my spares, bent it into shape, drilled a hole in the headlight and there we go. Trying to work out where the hell to attach the ignition barrel, until I realised that it was a perfect fit through the top wiring port in the headlight. Was going to glue it in place from the bottom, but the rubber boot for the headlight holds it in place so I might not bother.

As the new speedo is tiny, it uses a different lighting thing than the other speedos; the rubber plug with the bulb in the end is much smaller, and there's only one bulb (an LED, actually) instead of two bulb/plugs each. This meant I couldn't just plug in the old bulbs, and had to find somewhere to get 12V from. Poked around with my multimeter where the old dash lamp loom plugged in, found something suitable, soldered up the connectors. Worked well -- until I got 200m down the road and found that the speedo lighting goes on and off in time with the left indicator. Cracked up laughing inside my helmet. Shame it doesn't do the same with the right -- otherwise I'd have a good indicator idiot light system :laugh:

Speedo bracket acts as a sort of a spring, and it's only attached in one place, so it bounces slightly over bumps. Might get some of that sticky shit you use to stick things up in your shower (does anybody know what I mean?) to hold it to the top triple clamp or something (there's only a few mm between speedo and top clamp).

Pretty happy.

[tominoz]

G'day xerxesdaphat,
How did you go with removing the battery? Where did you get the info for doing this? How does the headlight go without it? I've been thinking of putting a gel cell in the tail for the lighting to reduce weight etc.

[xwhatsit]

G'day xerxesdaphat,
How did you go with removing the battery? Where did you get the info for doing this? How does the headlight go without it? I've been thinking of putting a gel cell in the tail for the lighting to reduce weight etc.
It's still running very nicely with no battery -- not sure how much information I gave earlier in this thread, but I've got a meaty electrolytic cap in place of the battery. Headlight is fine, no worries there; the only problems are that the horn is pissweak at idle, and if the headlight blows, then all the other bulbs blow in quick succession if you use them. I get around that by carrying a spare headlight bulb and leaving the headlight on all the time. Such a nice thing not having to worry about batteries, going flat, trying to kick the thing back into life with a flat battery isn't fun.

A guy here who runs a few of them reckons he runs his with no battery or capacitor at all -- just the battery terminals joined together. Dunno about that.

[Wobbles]

Hey Xwhatsit,
Any update on how the old RS is getting along?

I just trawled the web and found this post as I've been working on and off for the past 12 years on my RS to make an old school caff racer.
It's always interesting to see what other guys approach their vision.
I've got it to more or less how I want it to be now and if you were interested, I can post up some pictures.....may be useful to compare notes?

Cheers, Hilton.

[xwhatsit]

I'd love to see it mate!

Mine's nowhere near done, I've got the front how I want it (bar the mudguard, need a nice chrome metal one) but I need to do a seat and tail for it. Mostly focused right now on building a new 330cc engine for it, as the poor old girl is coming up for 100,000kms and has run out of steam a bit.

I keep riding the thing instead of working on it -- but then again, I've only been at it for a few years, you've been going for 12! :D

[Wobbles]

Here it is mate.

Commuted on it for a few years as standard and really grew to love it. Hankered after making it look a bit more special and one day saw a pic in a Jap mag of one looking so much like a CR92 it ached, and that was that; my project began.

I'll dig the photo out from somewhere and show you - looks cool but more purist with hidden battery. Anyone with a soul would love it.

The guy who made the tank for me made a dummy oil tank to hide the battery/electrics in.

Hope you like it.

Hilton.

[xwhatsit]

Holy jebus, that's fookin' amazing. I have a deep and abiding love for bare aluminium (or is that steel?).

I like the way you drilled the stock footpeg hangers to change the position.

Marvellous. I might've seen the same bike as you refer to -- was it painted red and had a TLS drum from an SR400 on the front? If not, the Japs seem to love to do this sort of thing with the RS. Yours looks nicer than any of them.

[TOTO]

Here it is mate.

Commuted on it for a few years as standard and really grew to love it. Hankered after making it look a bit more special and one day saw a pic in a Jap mag of one looking so much like a CR92 it ached, and that was that; my project began.

I'll dig the photo out from somewhere and show you - looks cool but more purist with hidden battery. Anyone with a soul would love it.

The guy who made the tank for me made a dummy oil tank to hide the battery/electrics in.

Hope you like it.

Hilton.
:
This one beautiful bike mate :clap:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Here it is mate.

Commuted on it for a few years as standard and really grew to love it. Hankered after making it look a bit more special and one day saw a pic in a Jap mag of one looking so much like a CR92 it ached, and that was that; my project began.

I'll dig the photo out from somewhere and show you - looks cool but more purist with hidden battery. Anyone with a soul would love it.

The guy who made the tank for me made a dummy oil tank to hide the battery/electrics in.

Hope you like it.

Hilton.

I absolutely love this as well. Never never sell it, or if you do, sell it to me.

This is all very topical because I am now in the CB750 SOHC cafe racer business, having bought a bunch of stuff (sight unseen, in bloody Napier) off of Tardme.

Her indoors = not so happy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Here it is mate.

Commuted on it for a few years as standard and really grew to love it. Hankered after making it look a bit more special and one day saw a pic in a Jap mag of one looking so much like a CR92 it ached, and that was that; my project began.

I'll dig the photo out from somewhere and show you - looks cool but more purist with hidden battery. Anyone with a soul would love it.

The guy who made the tank for me made a dummy oil tank to hide the battery/electrics in.

Hope you like it.

Hilton.

PS any more photos??

[Brian d marge]

Here it is mate.

Commuted on it for a few years as standard and really grew to love it. Hankered after making it look a bit more special and one day saw a pic in a Jap mag of one looking so much like a CR92 it ached, and that was that; my project began.

I'll dig the photo out from somewhere and show you - looks cool but more purist with hidden battery. Anyone with a soul would love it.

The guy who made the tank for me made a dummy oil tank to hide the battery/electrics in.

Hope you like it.

Hilton.

Very nice that ...you do know the XR /XL 500 engine will slot straight in ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Stephen

[lancerlot]

Hi Guys,

I've been trawling over message boards the last few weeks after I got my own CB250RS. This one seems to have a wealth of knowledge.

Basically I'm looking to cafe mine up a bit - basically being inspired by some of the bikes that Heiwa did. Check out their CB250RS here:

http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/Portals/0/other/CB250RS/top.jpg

http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/Portals/0/other/CB250RS/cb250rs001_1.jpg

Anyway - I don't think I'll have too much trouble with the front end - but what I'm really struggling with is the seat and tank. Does anyone know where I could source a tank that will fit the RS without too much fiddling?

Also (hope it doesnt offend) but I reckon the seat of the RS looks pretty terrible - I was hoping to get something like this:

http://www.deus.com.au/shop/parts/seats/nitroheadsa-tack-roll-seat/prod_160.html

But I reckon it might be difficult to find for the RS...

Any thoughts guys?

cheers

[jester_parks]

There`s basically no aftermarket seat for the RS - but things get very easy when you disassemble the whole seat-plastiks, go down to the seat-base and make it yourself:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi Guys,

I've been trawling over message boards the last few weeks after I got my own CB250RS. This one seems to have a wealth of knowledge.

Basically I'm looking to cafe mine up a bit - basically being inspired by some of the bikes that Heiwa did. Check out their CB250RS here:

http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/Portals/0/other/CB250RS/top.jpg

http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/Portals/0/other/CB250RS/cb250rs001_1.jpg

Anyway - I don't think I'll have too much trouble with the front end - but what I'm really struggling with is the seat and tank. Does anyone know where I could source a tank that will fit the RS without too much fiddling?

Also (hope it doesnt offend) but I reckon the seat of the RS looks pretty terrible - I was hoping to get something like this:

http://www.deus.com.au/shop/parts/seats/nitroheadsa-tack-roll-seat/prod_160.html

But I reckon it might be difficult to find for the RS...

Any thoughts guys?

cheers

I'd be looking at Honda parts, and specifically GB400/500 stuff. If you are really lucky it will be straight boltup.

Thats just my idea though.

[lancerlot]

I was actually hoping to lose all the plastics altogether..much like the link i posted above.

But that would also mean exposing a lot more of the bike (battery - which ultimately i would like to eliminate, air filter etc.) which, i guess means a lot more work later on.

However, I think that a purely naked bike, which has been stripped down that much, looks v v nice...

Just a matter of putting the hours and money in I guess..

On that note - xwhatsit - how did you manage to remove the battery? Is there a simple way of eliminating it?

[jester_parks]

Getting rid of all that plastics is straight forward!
Airbox & -batterie-holder is one unit and can be taken off - replace the batterie with that small one I show below /12V - 0,8A) - it is so small that it fits right behind the frame-tubes under the seat! Add a bell-mouth and you are done.

[AllanB]

Hey there- nice project. I've a suggestion

I was looking at the picture of the top triple clamp and the old handlebar mounts are screaming at me - I'd get a piece of sheet reasonably thick alloy and cut a triangle shaped mount that bolts into the four holes - in the top end of the 'triangle' I'd mount the speedo.
Paint it black or polish it - or use tread plate if you desire a pattern look.

I can't find a image of exactly what I mean but these 'cruiser' ones will give you the idea.

Man I'd love to do a project bike but the $ are not there - planning some project mufflers for the Hornet this winter.

[jester_parks]

...."Man I'd love to do a project bike but the $ are not there "....

sometimes luck is coming your way: got a CB250RS, which was parked for years in a garage and the owner found her standing in his way all the time....so he parted for Euros 20!! (roundabout the same in Dollars, I guess).
Withdrew into the workshop over the winter, dismantled, derosted, polished, assembled...and yes, did spend some money over the months...and eventually got a little thumper:

[AllanB]

Jester that's my type of budget! :niceone:

[xwhatsit]

Hey there- nice project. I've a suggestion

I was looking at the picture of the top triple clamp and the old handlebar mounts are screaming at me - I'd get a piece of sheet reasonably thick alloy and cut a triangle shaped mount that bolts into the four holes - in the top end of the 'triangle' I'd mount the speedo.
Paint it black or polish it - or use tread plate if you desire a pattern look.

I can't find a image of exactly what I mean but these 'cruiser' ones will give you the idea.

Man I'd love to do a project bike but the $ are not there - planning some project mufflers for the Hornet this winter.
Hey that's the best idea I've seen yet. My shitty little home-made bracket snapped from vibration (it was only thin tin kind of stuff) just a couple of days ago. I may look at doing just what you said. The speedo will be a little high though. Might have to make something out of cardboard to test.

I need to learn how to shape aluminium like Mr Wobbly has on his tank. It looks like a bit of a craftsman's job though -- not for time-poor money-poor amateurs like me!



I've done a few kilometres now on a variety of different bikes of all different configurations and ages. But nothing seems to be able to match the simple fun of a small-capacity single in a lightweight nice-handling frame. And the CB250RS has to be one of the better examples of such a bike.

[AllanB]

Found one (by chance) that better shows the 'look' applied to a cafe style.

Friday night - excellent for searching the net for cool bike stuff :niceone:

[jester_parks]

far too technical, modern for my taste!

[Wobbles]

I'm bowled over by the compliments for my litttle project - thanks guys!

I took some pics this morning.
One of them might help some ideas for the speedo/tacho... took alot of fiddling to get the tacho as low as you probably want Xwhatsit, but those cruiser plates look well neat & may do the job.

Talking of budget - we found the original bike in my sister's barn when she bought her house near Bristol and assumed ownership of the bike. Cost zero$$$.

BTW - this is the most valuable thread i've every read on caffing up an RS

You all rock :headbang:

[jester_parks]

This bike is just perfect!
I must admit I did not put as much TLC into my little thumper jet and it definitely shows on the triple-clamp.
BUT: this forum is very motivating and my next sample of "RS-Coffee-Racer" will close the gap to the UK-machine!!
btw: cheap gauges are CB200 on ebay - nobody wants them and I guess they fit:

[Wobbles]

Getting rid of all that plastics is straight forward!
Airbox & -batterie-holder is one unit and can be taken off - replace the batterie with that small one I show below /12V - 0,8A) - it is so small that it fits right behind the frame-tubes under the seat! Add a bell-mouth and you are done.

Hey Jester,
Is that you bike in this post?
Now that's sweeeeet!:apint:

[xwhatsit]

Wobbles -- what did you do to your top yoke? Seeing as grinding the bar mounts off would leave holes. Did you weld some plate in to fill the hole?

Jester -- is that a stock German top yoke? Interesting the number of differences in the German RS's compared to what the rest of the world had. P.S. you must tell me about the bottom-end work you did on your 330cc conversion when you have a chance :D

[xwhatsit]

I'm going to post up some of the pics of modified CB250RSs that I've collected (mostly Japanese, many from Yahoo Japan Auctions, they come up for sale very often and at ridiculously cheap prices).

I have more shots of certain bikes.

[xwhatsit]

The first two photos are of the most stunning conversion, this is very CR77. Interesting how the pipes look stock but are seemingly stretched out flat and straightened (obviously not as the stock pipes are made up of conical sections). This was my favourite -- but I think after seeing Wobble's bike I've changed my mind :laugh: He had a website somewhere, just a list of the bikes he'd had over the years, I used Google Translate to get it from Japanese but there were bits I didn't get. His site disappeared now :(

How good is the last image of a Ducati 250 knockoff?

[jester_parks]

I certainly will forward a photo-documentation about the 340cc-conversion
, but at the moment my Yamaha-engine is on the bench due to road-worthy!
I will be gone on top of it for a week to enjoy italian food (and wines), but I suppose it is not all that urgent, is it?

[Wobbles]

OOOF!
Those picture are unbeeeelieveable! Thank you so much Xwhatsit :)

'specially lurve this one(attached).

Also the pastiche of the Laverda[?] is cool as you like.

Jester - what sort of power/torque benefits are you looking at for the 340cc?
Is there alot of work involved?



Cheers guys:apint:

[Wobbles]

Forgot to attach the pics.
Those pipes are how I'd do it if the pipes already on the bike were't so pretty.
I'll wait til they rust or drop off as an excuse to get some made ;)

[xwhatsit]

OOOF!
Those picture are unbeeeelieveable! Thank you so much Xwhatsit :)

'specially lurve this one(attached).

Also the pastiche of the Laverda[?] is cool as you like.

Jester - what sort of power/torque benefits are you looking at for the 330cc?
Is there alot of work involved?



Cheers guys:apint:
Do you mean the red bike (well there's a few), the MV Agusta pastiche? I've seen a few bikes with that tank/seat combination so they might've made a kit in Japan for them.

If you're interested in the XT350-in-a-CB250RS thing, there's a thread I started a while ago here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75655 . It's not very clear though, but the general gist of it is to take an XT350 piston (86mm vs. 74mm, so 12mm oversize -- 336cc) as it has the same 19mm piston pin diameter, and fit an oversize cylinder liner to accommodate it -- which then requires machining out the top half of the crankcase to allow it to fit.

Jester seems to be going for a complete monster, cylinder head porting, oversize valves, big carb -- it sounds like it's going to go like a rocket! As I commute on mine, I'm leaving it mostly standard with ordinary 250cc-level intakes and exhaust specs, so in my eye that'll give good low-end torque and tractability even if it won't rev like a lunatic.

I've also got an XR250R 6-speed gearbox set and the single gear-driven balancer to go in it. One thing I'm sure you hate about maintaining the RS (aside from the lack of oil filter with corresponding frequent oil changes) is adjusting the bloody balancer chain. The XR250R went 6-speed and also did away with the twin chain balancers, using a single larger gear-driven balancer, so that will make life a lot easier.

[Wobbles]

Wobbles -- what did you do to your top yoke? Seeing as grinding the bar mounts off would leave holes. Did you weld some plate in to fill the hole?


Hi Xwhatsit,
Yes, I just got fed up with the bar mounts mocking me and ground them off. You're right, there were holes left so I just filled them with weld and ground them down. If I ever decided to build it to show, I'd have to smooth these right off as you can still see the grinder marks!! :whocares:

At one point in it's evolution it had ace bars which looked horrible as all the instrumentation was way too high. When these got binned, I used the mounts just to hold the original headlamp bracket in place along with the digi speedo mounting onto it.
Never felt right and modded the bracket, dropped everything down which left the mounts looking a bit redundant.
Btw, the original brackets are nice as they keep the stanchions unclutterd.

Like you mentioned earlier, i too intended to keep all lugs etc so I could always convert it back, but after a while, realized this was never going to happen. It's amazing how therapeutic an angle grinder can feel when taken to a perfectly good bike!!!

Thanks for the link on the XT350.

Jester's 340 sounds awesome. Look fwd to seeing more.

[Buddha#81]

A year or two back I post classic raced a CB250RS. Not a bad wee bike just with 18" sport deamon tyres. Seeing the relative ease these wee bikes convert to and how they look I'm kicking myself for selling it for $200.
I found the gearbox weak when thrashed, which effectively is the same gearbox as the 500, as a 500 they must be like a grenade with the pin pulled. A FT500 (6speed) cafe project appeals, they look like crap but using some of the ideas on here could look as good with the 500 boogie. Bombing out a 250 to 350ish could be more rewarding.

[xwhatsit]

A year or two back I post classic raced a CB250RS. Not a bad wee bike just with 18" sport deamon tyres. Seeing the relative ease these wee bikes convert to and how they look I'm kicking myself for selling it for $200.
I found the gearbox weak when thrashed, which effectively is the same gearbox as the 500, as a 500 they must be like a grenade with the pin pulled. A FT500 (6speed) cafe project appeals, they look like crap but using some of the ideas on here could look as good with the 500 boogie. Bombing out a 250 to 350ish could be more rewarding.
Yes, my first gear likes to pop out then jump back in of its own accord after the engine near reaches redline. Not a nice way to lift the front wheel.

I think it was you who said that with the extra weight of the 500 lump the handling would probably suffer. With the 6 speed I'm putting in (supposedly more reliable) and the nil extra weight of the 336cc conversion -- although mine won't pull massive horsepower, Jester's sounds like it will at least match the 500 (which were fairly mildly tuned) albeit at higher RPM -- I think there could be very good results.

Did that racer you had go to TygerTung? I remember you said you sold it and he was complaining about 2nd gear troubles.

As I type this my front end is in about a million pieces. Fork seals (lasted ~20,000kms, not happy :weep:) and putting some tapered headset bearings in. Got to wait until my old man gets here with some heavy-duty equipment to get the old ball races out.

[NordieBoy]

My 5-speed has been going so well I havn't looked at dropping the 6-speed in yet.
It gets redlined in pretty much every gear before shifting.

Hmmm... spare engine... cafe racer... mmmmmm...

[mylittletony]

Hi guys,

I just joined this site so i can get more knowledge for my CB. Recently purchased for £190, straight through MOT and taxed for an extra 60, so it owes me £250, which is nice. It's currently in the back garden with bits missing while i transform it into one of these crossed with a cafe racer:

http://mulliganmachine.blogspot.com/2008/12/cb250-street-trackers.html

much like some of the bikes above! I've just ordered a small battery to try and tuck up underneath a cut down original seat base which will have some free foam on top (thanks work!).

Other parts to be fitted include:
Bates style 4.5" headlight
Enduro rear guard and light (smallest, lightest ones i could find for cheap)
Universal speedo and rev counter
Tiddly indicators

I'm struggling to find a decent exhaust (got a Motad, but it's too quiet...) or even parts in the right size. I'd love a high pipe off an XL, but heard they don't fit?

Also very interested in the 340cc conversion as would like a bit more poke without getting silly.

Wobbles, where in London are you, I'm in Clapham...

Xwhatsit - you are a legend.

Apologies for the essay, i'll post some progress photos once i work out my stupid camera!

[xwhatsit]

Cool! Those Japanese street trackers are awesome. Have you seen Heiwa's site? Here's their Honda range, with an RS down the page a little: http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/tabid/61/Default.aspx Their paint jobs (not that there's much to paint!) are absolutely beautiful.

The XL250S pipes; I dunno about how they'd fit along the frame, but I would think the main issue is that the header diameter is smaller. The XL250S engine was lower tuned with more restricted cam profile and exhaust ports.

I always thought the Motads had removable baffles? I always wanted to import one to the other side of the world here, they looked good. Ended up with a locally-made Cycleworks 'zorst (similar design to the Motad 2-into-1 but a little more agricultural) which after repacking is quiet enough but has a nice tone.

[lancerlot]

This has got to now be the best thread on the internet for caffing CB250RS's..
All of you guys are a great help!

A question tho that maybe you can help out on - how easy is it to fit other tanks?

I mean is it just a question of taking off the RS tank and slamming another one in - bolting it up at the base of the seat?

Or does research need to be done as to what particular tanks will fit on the RS frame?

Sorry - I know it's a really open ended and vague question - but i hope you all get my drift :-S

[HenryDorsetCase]

definitely a "suck it and see" proposal I'd say.

Hondas with spine frames of the era all had similar mounting I thik: two round rubber hockey pucks on the frame which slot into two semi circles on the tank, bolted or rubber strap at the rear. But from there the variables are endless: I think I would be spending a saturday morning down the local wreckers trying stuff out. Having said that, if you get "the" tank, it shouldnt be too hard to get some mounts brazed to it (by someone competent: petrol fumes, welding torch = fun for all the family).

the eyeball-ometer says something like a GB400 tank "should" fit... but....

[Ixion]

Biggest issue with changing tanks is always the crap mounted under the tank. Coils and what not. More often than not something fouls the underside.If it sits OK on the bike the mountings can be rangi'd easy enough

[vifferman]

http://mulliganmachine.blogspot.com/2008/12/cb250-street-trackers.html



Cool! Those Japanese street trackers are awesome. Have you seen Heiwa's site? Here's their Honda range, with an RS down the page a little: http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/dotnetnuke4/tabid/61/Default.aspx T
:wacko:
Not a big fan of the large front tyre look - it's disproportionate.

[HenryDorsetCase]

they look in proportion in their intended use i.e. on a US dirt tracker.

something Ive always wondered.

US dirt track is kind of functionally equivalent to speedway (half mile dirt or cinder oval, go out, turn left......)

yet the bikes are SO different: speedway bike has a big front wheel, rigid rear, small but fat rear tyre, 500cc alcohol, no brakes

dirt tracker: default setting is 19 inch wheels front and rear, much less apparnet rearward weight bias, rear suspension and the 750cc air cooled V twin.

Which is faster-er? which is "Better"? my opinion is the dirt trackers are better looking bikes but thats the two year old in me going "WANT"

[lancerlot]

definitely a "suck it and see" proposal I'd say.

Hondas with spine frames of the era all had similar mounting I thik: two round rubber hockey pucks on the frame which slot into two semi circles on the tank, bolted or rubber strap at the rear. But from there the variables are endless: I think I would be spending a saturday morning down the local wreckers trying stuff out. Having said that, if you get "the" tank, it shouldnt be too hard to get some mounts brazed to it (by someone competent: petrol fumes, welding torch = fun for all the family).

the eyeball-ometer says something like a GB400 tank "should" fit... but....

Yep - so i had a look see last night - and turns out you are spot on. Just the bolt at the rear of the tank, and the rubber pucks holding it on (presumably so theres no sideways movement - the weight of the fuel keeps it moving up and down) at the front...

As long as the tank you fit on later has room for the bolt - perhaps something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HONDA-750-4-CB750-FUEL-TANK-81-MODEL-EX-POLICE-BIKE_W0QQitemZ380114009690QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Mo torcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item380114009690&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Then as long as you can get the front side from moving laterally, you should be in business...

[jester_parks]

So, back from my short stay in Sardinia, I am proud to show you my latest addition to my RS-parts: tank and seat to beat Hilton`s UK-racer....who by the way "founded" the "CB250RS appreciation society"

Can`t help it, but brits can give always very nice names - sound far better than any german titel!!

[xwhatsit]

WHAT! How'd you score those? You lucky bastard :D

[Wobbles]

Damn fine looking bit of bodywork there Lester!

With that hot motor, your bike's gonna rock! :Punk:

How long do you reckon til it's together?

[dandandan]

Loving this thread. I bought my RS in 2003 as my first bike, went to a RGV250, CBR400, GSXR600 and now returning to the RS to cafe it.

(by now I mean it has been sitting at my parent's place for a while now as I live in an apartment on the other side of town and it is near impossible to find the time to get over there to play with it).

A few years ago I did the ultra-cheap psuedo-cafe conversion (dropped the pipe off, flipped the bars) but that just got silly after a while. Got some grand plans for this one but trying to do everything myself.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for all the helpful input. I'm not heaps mechanically minded but there is lots to take away from this.

Going to read the thread from the beginning again to try take it all in. No doubt lots of questions to come. Thanks in advance.

Dan

[jester_parks]

@xwhatsit:

Its off an old CB72/77 racer and it took me long to find it - always searching for those old-period-racer-parts and you will be lucky one day too...

The pacel with the piston hasn`t arrived yet??....seems that you are really living on the other side of the world, don`t you?

[xwhatsit]

@xwhatsit:

Its off an old CB72/77 racer and it took me long to find it - always searching for those old-period-racer-parts and you will be lucky one day too...

What a rare thing to come across! Hopefully it mounts easily without too much hassle, the problem with the RS is the shape of the frame is high at the front and back and dipped in the middle for standard seat.


The pacel with the piston hasn`t arrived yet??....seems that you are really living on the other side of the world, don`t you?
Not yet, I was wondering about that today. Then again, ordering things from England has in the past taken just as long. David Silver had me scratching my head!

[jester_parks]

to keep the thread alive, herewith another fine example of a cafe-racer and and good way to go too...

[lancerlot]

I'm loving the pipework on that one!

p.s - in other news, my cousin (who is nine) decided to hang off my RS via the clutch lever. So the lever promptly snapped (which is rather strange - thought that it would be stronger)...so now I have no bike to ride, until i find a new clutch lever.

This makes me :mad:

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'm loving the pipework on that one!

p.s - in other news, my cousin (who is nine) decided to hang off my RS via the clutch lever. So the lever promptly snapped (which is rather strange - thought that it would be stronger)...so now I have no bike to ride, until i find a new clutch lever.

This makes me :mad:

ah crap. Still, it shouldnt be that hard to find or expensive. Buy two (and a spare brake lever), so you've a spare in your toolbox. they can be useful. I saw a guy step off a ZX10 at a trackday last month and among the damage was a front brake lever: $75 apparently! Yours wont be anything like that expensive..... I bought pattern ones for the VFR and they were about $15 each IIRC.

[Wobbles]

Hey Jester;
Loving the red frame on that one - v. classy. Always fancied doing that.

Lancerlot - yeah - console yourself that pattern levers are readily avalaible, and very importantly..................cheap!!
Hope you're back riding soon :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

by the way, I got the latest (Feb 09) Classic Bike to read on the plane last week: its got an article on a CB350 cafe racer and it has the red frame/silver tank and seat combo going on. Its a good read, check it out in a magazine shop if nowhere else.

[lancerlot]

So thankfully I bought the new clutch lever over the weekend. Just a Pavarotti (10-er) from the local Honda dealer.

Happily riding around now.

Though, importantly, it's given me back the drive to find a new cafe racer seat and really start with the project....

[tychver]

Xerxes:
How's the bike with a pillion on? Hard to stop?

[xwhatsit]

Xerxes:
How's the bike with a pillion on? Hard to stop?
It's not bad, really. As long as you date Asian girls :laugh: Yes, it's hard on the brakes but I generally ride around town as if I had none anyway, looking ahead four or five or more cars to figure out what's going to happen. Goes around corners quite well, two-up peg scraping in the wet (not intentional); just got to sort of lift it up at the exit. Have to rape the gearbox and clutch to make any progress sometimes.

Seat's not really cut out for more than 100kms or so two-up, you'll end up with very sore nuts.

[jester_parks]

Hi guys, I returned from a vintage-bike and -parts sale over the weekend and I am happy to announce that I successfully bought some parts to complete my RS-CafeRacer:
I guess those pipes will fit nicely, although they are not precisely old style, as those days the pipes were straight.Pls. judge yourself:

[Squiggles]

Xerxes:
How's the bike with a pillion on? Hard to stop?

Its fucken scary :eek:

[NordieBoy]

Hi guys, I returned from a vintage-bike and -parts sale over the weekend and I am happy to announce that I successfully bought some parts to complete my RS-CafeRacer:
I guess those pipes will fit nicely, although they are not precisely old style, as those days they pipes were straight.Pls. judge yourself:

In silver maybe.

Or some reverse cone Dunstall type megas.

[tychver]

I like the wavy pipes. Have you thought about getting the rest of the exhaust sorted out?

I'm not sure, but I've had a good look at the headers and they don't look capable of flowing more than 30hp. With the 300+cc you might start running into the limit of the headers.

[jester_parks]

Quite frankly I haven`t done that - I am still busy with my Yamahas, then I will attend to the engine again. With the bigger valves , Keihin CR, hot-cam and open pipes I would think that 35bhp should be possible: thats what I am aiming for and would be satisfied with it - after all, it should be still rideable on the road!

[Wobbles]

Yep; liking the wavy pipes Jester- very MV Agusta, which can't be at all bad.

Really like the red frame.
Looking very nice indeed.

Looking at your photoshop bike Jester, reminds me of a question that's been partially talked about;
On the kickstart models, what do you guys do about the brake lever getting in the way when you've put rearsets on??
If you're not running a standard brake pedal(that moves with the kickstart) then the kickstart just bangs into it and won't go the full way down.
I got round this by making my brake plate detachable, but it's a drag if you stall at the lights and have to fart around while the traffic's going nuts behind you.
Any suggestions?

[maybegunnadoo]

yes: Greetings Gents from Darwin NT. I am now the proud owner of a large box of bits some painted bright vomit yellow, 15 yr old tyres, rusty bits and hopefully when all back together I will join this fine fraturnity. Ive wanted a new bike for ages, but all the new ones just don't ring my bell. I wanted something small light easy to work on, a classic shape and wire wheels. Anyway I went to a BBQ and under cover was this yellow thing (in one piece at the time) amongst 5 or 6 other bikes. I made a stupid offer and then it sat in my shed for 18 months or so...The idea was a quick do up and flog it to get some money for something better. Anyway I finally started taking it apart last month and was instantly struck by how easy it was to work on, the lovely classic lines and so thought that it would make a great little cafe racer. Then I saw 'Wobbles Wonder Machine' and am totally smitten. So I'm going to join to in and devote my evenings to a worthy cause of The CB250RS Appreciation society. I'l get some pickies out soon...

[jester_parks]

The "rearset-kickstart-business" is also ahead of me, but haven`t found a solution yet. I guess I will also start like Wobbles with a foldable peg and might bend the kickstart to pass the lever.....

[tychver]

Mine came with what I think might be a ~2000 yzf250 kickstart.

Fat piece of cast aluminium. It's significantly shorter than the standard lever. Should clear modified rearsets.

I'll dig it out and take a pic later. It could be a honda lever from another XR or CRF, it just looks identical to the one on my friends 2000 YZF250.

[jester_parks]

Please show!!

[tychver]

This should be it.

[xwhatsit]

Oh right! Harder to kick over? They're pretty easy engines to start anyhow, especially with the decompression feature.

[jester_parks]

Nice piece of Aluminium - looks like some Moto-Crosser-type, maybe Yamaha YZ....

[tychver]

Yeah it was harder to kick over, and it really stood out against the black engine casing.

[tychver]

By the way, what size are the standard handlebars on a CB250RS?

I'm thinking of keeping the clamps and fitting ace/clubman bars.

[xwhatsit]

By the way, what size are the standard handlebars on a CB250RS?

I'm thinking of keeping the clamps and fitting ace/clubman bars.
You mean diameter? 7/8", like almost all Japanese bikes -- it's nice they agreed on some sort of standard ;)

[Ixion]

'They' didn't. The 7/8" fitment goes way back, 1930s at least.

Only major holdouts are Harley (figures), BMW (naturally, just got to be different), and some off roady things

But : - did you know there are two standard mounting WIDTHS (the distance between the clamps, or between the knurled bit on the bars? fact.

[paulw]

wow, that kickstart will be handy to replace the oem - when my next one breaks... they're hard to find these days in aus!?!?!

I'm new to the thread guys, and i tell you what, this has sooo much info on the RS it's not funny. Great work... I crashed my first one, and couldn't bare to get rid of it - hey presto, a year later there was a half dead one on ebay so now i've started the good old "take the best bits" job to combine them.

Got one all together with the good frame and old engine... ready for roadworthy until I thought "hmm, i'll just change that cylinder head gasket" :whistle: which led to a cam chain and... the engine in many many pieces :eek5:

Long story short, thought I might put in a new piston for good measure - i've seen one or two notes about these, and that it might be able to up it to 280cc just by putting in a different piston?? any ideas gents?

Cheers
Paul

[jester_parks]

Jepp....280cc is straight forward! Use your barrel, bore it and slot in a bigger piston: done!

[NordieBoy]

305cc (or is it 308cc) is relatively easy.

[xwhatsit]

305cc (or is it 308cc) is relatively easy.
What's that?

[NordieBoy]

What's that?

Nothing. Nothing at all :whistle:

[xwhatsit]

Nothing. Nothing at all :whistle:
You'd need to sleeve it though? That's an 82mm bore... What piston is that?

[tychver]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-217304017.htm

Does that look like a PD70A rebuild kit to you?!

Maybe we should ask if he can do a few more. I need two, you probably need the same again eh?

[xwhatsit]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-217304017.htm

Does that look like a PD70A rebuild kit to you?!

Maybe we should ask if he can do a few more. I need two, you probably need the same again eh?
Looks about right, I bought a XR250R kit from the same seller (Nikau) and the main jet was a different sort (hex head, long) but apart from that everything was all right. The needle may have a different taper, and the main jet is possibly different -- then again the guy let me choose the main jet so tell him you want a #122. On the other hand, the CB250RS is jetted slightly lean because it has a pumper carb, so it can run lean when cruising but there's extra fuel chucked in for acceleration when you turn the throttle. Or so the manual says. The XL250S had the same PD70 carb but no pumper, so it might've been a bit richer despite the tamer cam and port sizes.

[tychver]

What do you use to pull the spark plug?

I haven't got a spark plug socket to fit, and my long 12mm socket has walls to thick and won't fit between the plug and the head :(

[xwhatsit]

What do you use to pull the spark plug?

I haven't got a spark plug socket to fit, and my long 12mm socket has walls to thick and won't fit between the plug and the head :(
I went to the Honda dealer on Barry's Point Rd and asked him for a spark plug socket to fit a NGK `D' plug... he gave me one of those lightweight pressed aluminium tools with a little L-shaped rod to fit through the top to rotate. Only cost a few dollars.

[tychver]

I got the plug out. Running massively rich. Completely sooted up.

New plug is much easier to start and runs a lot better.

---

You're definitely going to need a bigger carb than the PD70 with the 335cc engine. The standard carb was well sized by honda and is right at its limit at 26hp:

I'm tossing up between a VM34 and a VM36.

[NordieBoy]

Find an old 79-81 XR500 carb and you're away laughing.

[skidMark]

Sounds like you boys are in search of Moar powar.

[xwhatsit]

Find an old 79-81 XR500 carb and you're away laughing.
Yup -- that's what Mr Original XR336 reckoned, didn't he. Dunno what they are though -- CV or slide (pumper or not...?).

EDIT: It's a slide type, with no pumper. Looks like the XL250S carb, just bigger. Dunno what size. Don't see how going too high is going to help, as the intake port is only 31-32mm anyway.

Sounds like you boys are in search of Moar powar.
Don't need too much, I'd just like the `thumper' feel. CB250RS feels like a tiny Jap twin, you have to scream it everywhere. A nice thumper I can short shift up to sit at 100kph comfortably... should've bought a GB500 but this is more fun.

[Ixion]

I got the plug out. Running massively rich. Completely sooted up.

New plug is much easier to start and runs a lot better.

---

You're definitely going to need a bigger carb than the PD70 with the 335cc engine. The standard carb was well sized by honda and is right at its limit at 26hp:

I'm tossing up between a VM34 and a VM36.

two standard carbs on a common manifold.

[xwhatsit]

two standard carbs on a common manifold.
Ha. Like you want that headache. Didn't you own an SRX250 once?

[mylittletony]

OK, as promised but very late due to mix of hangovers, rain (working in the back garden) and only getting a 45min lunch break to knock up parts at work, here are some photos of my street tracker attempt. New parts:

Enduro style rear mudguard
Enduro rear light
Home made (you can tell) battery box
Mini gel battery
4.5" bottom mount headlight

Modified parts:

Cut down seat base padded using foam box material from work, re trimmed in material previously used

Still to be done: Fit battery and wire up, wire up mini indicators, paint and mount new mini chrome instruments, tidy front wiring. Oh and paint the tank - not much then!!

I also included a before shot and one with my 6'2" 17 stone housemate on for scale!!

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/tonyjwestwood/CIMG1588.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/tonyjwestwood/Halfway001.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/tonyjwestwood/Halfway003.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/tonyjwestwood/Halfway006.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/tonyjwestwood/Halfway009.jpg

[tychver]

two standard carbs on a common manifold.

Can't be bothered with making a manifold and linkages. Plus the VM34/36 isn't that much more expensive once you factor in the cost of reconditioning two carbs, linkage and hours setting it up right.

[tychver]

Have you seen the XL500 powered cb250rs on trademe? It's got a ducati replica next to it in the photos. Does the owner post on here?

[tychver]

Ha. That actually is a Ducati.

[mylittletony]

This may not be totally relevant to this thread anymore, it seems to have become a general CB250RS Q&A!!

Could anyone tell me whether cbX250rs forks fit? I need to do fork seals, but have found some cbx forks locally in better condition for half the price of the repair work.

How about an easy front brake upgrade to improve the feel and power? at the moment I squeeze and it slows down a bit but there's zero feedback and i'm using the rear brake a lot...

[xwhatsit]

Could anyone tell me whether cbX250rs forks fit? I need to do fork seals, but have found some cbx forks locally in better condition for half the price of the repair work.
Haven't got a clue, but the first thing to check would be what diameter the stanchions are -- CB250RS forks are 33mm.

Length would probably be all right as long as it's not too far off; the CB benefits from a slightly lowered front-end (sharpens up the handling noticeably), so if they're slightly too short that's no big deal. If they're too tall you can drop them through the yokes up to a certain point.

Axle diameter would be the other issue. The CBX runs 17" wheels, so mudguard height would be off. Unless you ran a complete CBX front wheel, mudguard, brake etc. (probably better brakes than the CB item too).

Seals on the RS are really easy to do yourself. I see David Silver has aftermarket seals very cheap... once you pull the forks off you can strip the forks and rebuild them in an hour.



Brakes are rubbish... I've completely rebuilt my calliper and used a couple of different master cylinders but they're terminally crap. I see a lot of photos of Jap RS clubmans running the front end off an SR400, which has a twin-leading-shoe drum brake. The later Japanese CB250RS Deluxes (the RS-Z and the RS-Z-R which was all blinged up in red/white/gold colour scheme) had a twin-pot calliper which might've been a bit better. I haven't seen any in NZ, dunno if they reached England, might've just been a Jap domestic thing.

[jester_parks]

I bought and fitted CB400n-forks, which have the same diameter (33mm) and give you the option of double-disc 240mm or - with CBX750, CB900F (or FT500?)-calipers - 276mm brake-disc....and this combo does work!

[mylittletony]

cool, thanks for the advice, speedy as usual!! Not 100% about the home rebuild, it took me 3 months to change the lights and relocate the battery!! Don't have a vice at home, or a stand, or most of the correct tools! Should give it a go though i guess, hopefully work would let me build them up...

as for the CB400N forks, can you keep the same wheel? It looks like you have. I can't recall a spoked wheel version over here and wouldn't go near a comstar...

edit: actually, aren't cb400n the same as cb250n forks??

Was ideally hoping to kill 2 birds with one stone and get better braking with a fork swap, so i'll have a search for some.

[xwhatsit]

Jester_parks: Nice!

mylittletony: I don't have vice/stand either... you can leave the bike on the centre stand. About the only `special tool' you need is a broomstick with a wooden handle to hold the damper rod in place when you loosen the bolt that retains it on the underside of the forks.

I always thought CB250N forks are 32mm.

[mylittletony]

Unfortunately no centre stand either, only a large flower pot come workbench :doh: I do have a broomstick though!

Just doing some research on David Silver, the oil seal (Honda p/n 91255413881) listed for CB400n is the same as the CB250N AND the cb250rs... The superdreams also share LH fork bottoms according to the site.

By default, does this mean the forks are the same (maybe diff length)? I'd be surprised if a manufacturer the size of Honda would use different forks for 2 similiar 250cc commuter bikes the same age... Or could DS spares be wrong? *head scratch* I did see an RS advertised here fitted with superdream wheels a while back. If so, presumably the larger disk/caliper Jester mentions could fit 250N forks fitted into 250rs yokes??

Sorry for the ramblings, need to sort out the forks and don't want to blow £80 if at all avoidable:confused:

[xwhatsit]

Just doing some research on David Silver, the oil seal (Honda p/n 91255413881) listed for CB400n is the same as the CB250N AND the cb250rs... The superdreams also share LH fork bottoms according to the site.
You're shittin' me! I had no idea. I always thought they were very different, although that might be the CB250T I was thinking of.

Just sharing fork seals alone doesn't mean too much though (although means they're 33mm so that's great), as they're a generic thing (just need same inside and outside diameter). The Superdreams have the calliper mounted on the RHS though... so if the fork legs are different on the RHS then that could give you pause to see if the calliper mountings are different.

CB250N is much heavier than the RS so the springs/damping might be better by necessity... that would be nice.

Have you come across some cheap 250N forks?

[tychver]

I've got an entire cb250n superdream to go at. I plan on stealing the wheels for my rs. Comstars just really complete that 80s ratbike look eh!

[tychver]

Having ridden a CB250N I can tell you the suspension probably isn't any better. I doubt they changed the damping, just the spring rate. It feels slightly more planted due to the much better and bigger tires, but you really notice that extra weight. They're not as much fun but I bet they're less insane for long trips on the motorway.

[xwhatsit]

Having ridden a CB250N I can tell you the suspension probably isn't any better. I doubt they changed the damping, just the spring rate. It feels slightly more planted due to the much better and bigger tires, but you really notice that extra weight. They're not as much fun but I bet they're less insane for long trips on the motorway.
You're right, the couple of Wet Dreams I've ridden feel like a sack of soggy shit... they are up near 180kg dry compared to the RS at 125kg dry -- no wonder the RS was considered `sporting' in its day lol. A sleeved down 400 so they were never going to be good. I suppose tauter springs is a start.

They still had FVQs on the back... possibly worse because it was an earlier iteration. A fellow on here named Magua has the 400 and it has broken (i.e. snapped) two FVQs over a year or two.

[Magua]

Tom, if you're interested in 250/400n forks, then try this guy. He's the one I bought my 200 from. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=716336 I noticed he had a cb250rs or two lying around, too.

[jester_parks]

Just posted a lengthy "howto" to Tony not considering that only he can read it!
Please Tony, copy and paste my pn to you into this thread for everybody to know!
Thanx.
To be understood:
It is NOT IMPERATIVE to change to CB400N-forks - it only gives you the benefit of double-disc.
The cheapest is keeping the CB250RS-fork, getting the Bol`dor-caliper and a disc and you are done. Inclusive bleeding the system you are on the road again "with working brakes" within 2 hours.
btw. braided-stainless-steel-line does help a lot!!

[mylittletony]

As requested:

Hi, this conversion is straight forward and you can do it step by step! The CB400N-fork has got the same diameter - so just slot it in! The tubes are a bit longer, but this is no roblemas you can push it through abit further (or - alternatively, fit longer shocks - I am working on that matter).
The caliper CB250RS will fit as well as the disc or the front wheel as a whole - but the you have no benefit: it will brake just as bad!
Solution 1: CB750/900/1100 Bol`Dor-caliper and one of their discs = 276mm = Plug`n Play!...thats what you see on my photograph.
Solution 2: The CB400N-fork gives you the benefit of fitting two calipers = doubledisc. Unfortunately the frontwheel of that particular model is 19inch. Get a wheel ot Yamaha XTZ750 Super-Tenere and redo the wheel for 18inch (it is 21inch), so you have a spoke-wheel with 2 x 240mm discs - Haven`t done that yet, but I am positive it will work and look perfect.
Solution 3: Get a Yamaha TZ-Front-Wheel, fit FZ400 discs =280mm, fit Bol`Dor-calipers and you come up with a 280mm-double-disc. This I have done and the setup is waiting to be fitted.
Just ask for mor information if needed!

Thanks Jester - very informative as always!! I think i'll re-seal my existing forks and do the single disc brake upgrade. I've found a CBX750 caliper but the discs look totally different to the one you show. Can you clarify which model and year discs and calipers are compatible (to the best of your knowledge)?? I'm sure everyone reading this will be interested!!

Xwhatsit: There seem to be a lot of "wet-dreams" over here, especially 250 so i was hoping to score some decent forks more easily. I also wasn't sure which calipers fit which forks, solved by Jester!

[jester_parks]

So sorry - I was too little specific!

The disc itself MUST BE off a CB750/900/1100 Bol`Dor, the CBX disc CAN NOT be used!
The caliper of a CBX750 and FT500 can be used, but the mounting-bracket must be off a Bol`Dor-type....alternatively look for the whole Bol`Dor-setup.
Go for the double-piston-type & go for the later discs, as they are lightened....
Sorry. the picture shows the one-piston variety: this is not correct but I hope you will understand what to use of which model!

[HenryDorsetCase]

So, uh, I have a garage full of CB750 parts, and need to sort out what to keep and what to not keep.

WHat I would like to do is get a wire wheel with dual discs with better calipers than the SOHC CB750 ones (one moving pad, one fixed, on the pivoting bracket). My intention had been to try and source a GL1000 front end complete (a relatively common (in the US) mod in the day for racing apparently). but something like what you've posted above would be perfect.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but any ideas? I want to avoid if possible using a comstar wheel but would consider using a CB750/900 rolladoor front end. Discs and wheel would be the issue there.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Haven't got a clue, but the first thing to check would be what diameter the stanchions are -- CB250RS forks are 33mm.

Length would probably be all right as long as it's not too far off; the CB benefits from a slightly lowered front-end (sharpens up the handling noticeably), so if they're slightly too short that's no big deal. If they're too tall you can drop them through the yokes up to a certain point.

Axle diameter would be the other issue. The CBX runs 17" wheels, so mudguard height would be off. Unless you ran a complete CBX front wheel, mudguard, brake etc. (probably better brakes than the CB item too).

Seals on the RS are really easy to do yourself. I see David Silver has aftermarket seals very cheap... once you pull the forks off you can strip the forks and rebuild them in an hour.



Brakes are rubbish... I've completely rebuilt my calliper and used a couple of different master cylinders but they're terminally crap. I see a lot of photos of Jap RS clubmans running the front end off an SR400, which has a twin-leading-shoe drum brake. The later Japanese CB250RS Deluxes (the RS-Z and the RS-Z-R which was all blinged up in red/white/gold colour scheme) had a twin-pot calliper which might've been a bit better. I haven't seen any in NZ, dunno if they reached England, might've just been a Jap domestic thing.

I always liked the brakes on my GB400. that should (you'd think) be not too far off. If I had kept the 400F, I was going to play about witht that as an option.

Now Ive a bunch of 750 bits again though so need something beeeeefy.

[tychver]

Just thought I'd drop in an let it be known that the Keyster XL250S carb rebuild kit works fine with a 122 main jet to rebuild the CB250RS's carb.

[tychver]

Oh, one other thing. Is the Cycleworks exhaust any lighter than the stock pair?

[dogsnbikes]

Hi Guys

Well as the lucky owner of 2 x CB250RS's I have one in orginal condition and Im rebuilding the 2nd well redesigning the 2nd into something fun but different

First of all it will be a single seater,the frame will be cut off just rear of the rear shock mounting point,the mudgaurds are CB650 steel front gaurds will be used front and rear the rear shocks will be GS550 shocks and the headlight is also GS550 the instruments are off a GB400 and the front brake master is of a GN250 the Bars are Drag bars the single 250 is being replaced by a 250 twin which I picked up the other complete with headers,wiring loom,coils,carbs etc for 500 so was a bargin and alot cheaper than buy parts to rebuild other motor

will add more picks and progress reports as the rebuild goes and hope to have this little beasty up and running by xmas intime to ride too the boxing day races in wanganui

[xwhatsit]

Oh, one other thing. Is the Cycleworks exhaust any lighter than the stock pair?
I didn't weigh them, but yes -- I picked them up to compare. It felt like the Cycleworks 2-into-1 was about one to one-and-a-half stock exhausts. Could've been lighter but it's built very robustly, much better than the stock pair.

First of all it will be a single seater,the frame will be cut off just rear of the rear shock mounting point
Cool man! So I suppose that spare engine I almost bought is going to be rebuilt and chucked into it?

You can get rid of most of the frame past the rear of the shock mounts just by unbolting it. There's only a bit left, sort of a `hoop' to support the pillion seat but the rear wheel almost reaches that high in full compression.

[tychver]

I'm thinking mine might fail next WOF on chain/sprockets.

520 chain isn't too hard to find, but where do you know where to get sprockets from?

[dogsnbikes]

I
Cool man! So I suppose that spare engine I almost bought is going to be rebuilt and chucked into it?

You can get rid of most of the frame past the rear of the shock mounts just by unbolting it. There's only a bit left, sort of a `hoop' to support the pillion seat but the rear wheel almost reaches that high in full compression.

everything is unbolted the rest will be cut off....as for the spare engine It will be done up in time think thats about #7 on the things to do list in the shed

[dogsnbikes]

I'm thinking mine might fail next WOF on chain/sprockets.

520 chain isn't too hard to find, but where do you know where to get sprockets from?

parts@econohonda.co.nz

[tychver]

I searched for them on econohonda before but couldn't find any. Found them now. Thanks!

[xwhatsit]

I searched for them on econohonda before but couldn't find any. Found them now. Thanks!
That list they have on the website dates from about 2006... better to ring or email.

A cheap, good-quality sprocket is made by JT Sprockets. They're available from almost any bike shop.

The part numbers for an original kick-start model (the hub doesn't have a `proper' cush drive, there's 4 bolts holding on the sprocket) is JTF 281.14 for the front sprocket, and JTR 248.44 for the rear (the number after the full-stop is for the number of teeth, so 14 teeth front and 44 teeth rear... after trying some different sizes my personal preference is stock gearing).

If you have (like me) an electric start rear hub (I have kickstart engine in an electric start frame... weird), which has a `proper' cush drive, and 6 allen-bolts holding the rear sprocket on, then the part number is JTR 245/2.44 for the rear --- same front sprocket as the kickstart motor.

[jester_parks]

Why not converting to a 428-chain?
Thats my plan after having upgraded my 350 Yamaha from 428 to 520....and lost 15km/h topspeed!
Thinking the other way round, the little Honda doesn`t need a "big" chain, but could do easily with 428 - and could gain topspeed!
As there are no sprockets in the required measurements, I will have them fabricated to size...not the cheapest option, but if there are more people interested it will work out cheaper for the individual.
Drop me a mail if so!

[Kickaha]

Why not converting to a 428-chain?
Thats my plan after having upgraded my 350 Yamaha from 428 to 520....and lost 15km/h topspeed!


Was that with keeping the same ratio?

[jester_parks]

lost topspeed with same ratio!
No wonder if you compare the weight of the two chains!
....and the small RS definitely does not need a big chain!!
428-chain-conversion will be manufactured in Germany with whatever ratio will be required.

[tychver]

Why not converting to a 428-chain?
Thats my plan after having upgraded my 350 Yamaha from 428 to 520....and lost 15km/h topspeed!
Thinking the other way round, the little Honda doesn`t need a "big" chain, but could do easily with 428 - and could gain topspeed!
As there are no sprockets in the required measurements, I will have them fabricated to size...not the cheapest option, but if there are more people interested it will work out cheaper for the individual.
Drop me a mail if so!

You lost 15km/h top speed going from 428 to 520 chain? 428 chain is about 1kg per 100 links and 520 is about 1.5. Even taking into account that it is rotating mass, it is not enough to make 15km/h difference. Something is wrong there!

I wouldn't go for a smaller chain. The CB250RS eats a set of chains and sprockets every 10,000KM already. Single cylinder engines are hard on chains in the first place and the RS doesn't have a proper cush drive to absorb some of the chain shock. The relatively small 14T front sprocket doesn't help much either.

[jester_parks]

"Something is wrong there!"

NOTHING WRONG THERE!!
It is as it is as I have the direct comparison!
No reservations in the least to use a smaller chain on the RS!! - It is a road-bike after all with a very moderat power-output.
Chain-stretch will be bigger, chain-adjustment more often .....but it is as always: there`s a price to pay for everything

[xwhatsit]

It sounds tempting. However I'm a bit worried... like Tychver says, the CB250RSs eat chains like they're going out of fashion. They were notorious for it... that's why Honda revised the hub design when they produced the electric start.

If there were a few people, what sort of cost would you expect?

[NordieBoy]

Hmmm. Was the 520 an o-ring chain?
Spin a wheel with an o-ring vs non o-ring and you'd understand some drop in speed.

[dogsnbikes]

Update...the seat design is comming together as is the over all shape of the bike..even if I am still waiting for the rear shocks and the headlight to arrive.. and hope to have the other CB650 front guard next week which will be the new rear guard mounted to the swing arm with Stays

I will be picking motor up in August..will run a 2n1 exhust system plan is to postion the muffer under the engine..

any ideas of how the shorten exhust system will affect the bikes performance..Is there a miniumin length they should be?

Am looking for either a CBR or GN left hand switch block that will also operate the choke,

Yesterday I shortened the rear end and will be using the old hoop bracket as the tail light mount etc

[tychver]

Hmmm. Was the 520 an o-ring chain?
Spin a wheel with an o-ring vs non o-ring and you'd understand some drop in speed.

I thought O ring chains only had greater friction when cold and once you were actually riding they were almost the same as non O ring?

[NordieBoy]

I thought O ring chains only had greater friction when cold and once you were actually riding they were almost the same as non O ring?

Nope.

Spin the rear to lube the chain on my bike after a race with an o-ring chain and then do my brothers with a standard chain and his spins far more freely.

[tychver]

Update...the seat design is comming together as is the over all shape of the bike..even if I am still waiting for the rear shocks and the headlight to arrive.. and hope to have the other CB650 front guard next week which will be the new rear guard mounted to the swing arm with Stays

I will be picking motor up in August..will run a 2n1 exhust system plan is to postion the muffer under the engine..

any ideas of how the shorten exhust system will affect the bikes performance..Is there a miniumin length they should be?

Am looking for either a CBR or GN left hand switch block that will also operate the choke,

Yesterday I shortened the rear end and will be using the old hoop bracket as the tail light mount etc

Wow dunno how I missed this post!

Rear shocks sound good. How much work does it take to get the GS550 shocks to fit? Are they a direct swap? I'm guessing they'll be a pretty good upgrade over the standard shocks! What are you doing about spring rate? They'll be sprung too heavy for an RS won't they?

[dogsnbikes]

didn't take too much work had to modify the top bushes
and make up a spacer but the lengths are the same
the load rate is ok as they are adjustable and they accomadate my size and riding style better

[jester_parks]

There`s no daubt that the conversion will work....for the better!
You must understand that the RS is 20 years of age - and so is its chain technology!
The chains produced nowadays are of much better quality and therefore stronger. To run a heavy 520-chain on the 250RS like in 750s is a waste of power and having too little anyway definitely a lthing to avoid.

[jester_parks]

Got down to the job to take the photographs in the workshop:
in order to accommodate the big liner you must - as we all know - enlarge the bore in the upper crankcase. This is straight forward as the cases will split horizontally. However I found it interfering with the oil-channel, which gets the oil up to the head through the cylinder-stud. This is not really a sound solution and I will look for a way to do that via an external oilhose. For the moment I will proceed as shown in the photographs. Relocated the oilchannel with the help of a dremel - and do so in the cylinder - and added some material with liquid-metal. Its going to work, but the better solution will be to close it alltogether and use a oilline running outside....

[xwhatsit]

Gah! I didn't think about that. You're using a TT350/XT350 liner aren't you, Christof? Same with me -- I think they're a little thicker than they need to be.

I might use the liquid-metal (JB-Weld is good enough I hope :D) too, not keen on the idea of running external oil lines -- then again there's a reputation for poor top-end lubing with these motors, perhaps it's a good idea.

[jester_parks]

I think the external oilline is a good idea, but no so easy to manage: from the crankcase you can reroute the oil fairly easy - the problem is where to feed it into the head. I am working on that matter, but don`t expect quick results. I fell off my off-road-bike and broke my hand, so was sidelined for 5 weeks

[vifferman]

I will be picking motor up in August..will run a 2n1 exhust system plan is to postion the muffer under the engine..

any ideas of how the shorten exhust system will affect the bikes performance..Is there a miniumin length they should be?
It may end up with more power at high revs, but less at lower revs.



I might use the liquid-metal (JB-Weld is good enough I hope)
Well, I used it to fix a crack in my clutch cover many moons ago, and also to repair glove box hinges on a Fiat. Both are still doing well.

[tychver]

I've finished all my prep and filling on my cibbie. New paint next weekend :D

[maybegunnadoo]

Ok, Frame all striped ready for painting. have sourced a Xl500 engine locally and am going to weigh and measure it to see what is major difference between the 250 and the 500. Weight wise the Xl was only 2-3kg heavier thathan the CB and the engine popped out 32 hp to the cb's 23 I think. The local library up here has manuals for both bikes and the similaritys are astonishing. Anyone got any ideas on triangulation of the frame?

[jester_parks]

The XL500-engine will fit without any daubt: it has been done before!
As the engine is "longer" though, you have to adapt the cylinderhead to frame pillars.

[NordieBoy]

The XL500-engine will fit without any daubt: it has been done before!
As the engine is "longer" though, you have to adapt the cylinderhead to frame pillars.

And drill the frame and use the engine mounting bolts from the 500 (bigger diameter).

I think.

That's what I was told when I wanted to "upgrade" my XR250.

They may have just been trying to put me off though as the bike is fast enough as it is :D

[Wobbles]

Met up with Mylittletony the other week and had a blast up to the Ace caff in London.
Great to meet up and have a jaw about the little RSs.
Funny how much attention our little bikes attracted seeing as how much exotica and 'worthy' classics there were. Think we both felt quite stoked about it:first:

Anyway - took a couple of shots on the Chelsea Embankment on the way home - you can just make out Battersea power station in the background.

Good to meet you Tony mate, hope to see you again soon :)

[mylittletony]

Ha! Thanks for posting the pictures Hilton, mine are still stuck on my ancient camera phone! Good to meet you too.

Yeah, I was quite surprised how much the old boys approved, although yours was rightfully getting more love - pats on the back for us!

Unfortunately mine's getting parked up for a while as I'm off on holiday :cool: then hotel-ing at my folks for a bit.

Might be time to get a suitably styled tank on, anyone know of an older vintage Honda one that fits easily (bobber-ish style)??

Tony
(joint founder member of the elite London CB250rs owners club ;) )

[Buddha#81]

The XL500-engine will fit without any daubt: it has been done before!
As the engine is "longer" though, you have to adapt the cylinderhead to frame pillars.

And the bottom of the tank? I looked into this for a post classic race bike but was warned the extra power can affect the handling.

[Taz]

And the bottom of the tank? I looked into this for a post classic race bike but was warned the extra power can affect the handling.

What handling???? :lol:

Here's my CB250RS, I put an extra cylinder on it and turned the engine 90 degrees in the frame.

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv282/advkiwi/smguzzi02.jpg

[maybegunnadoo]

Ok,

Frames all done and ready for the paint shop. I've sourced a lovely '78 (?) CB350 tank which I hope will fit. I've decided against clipons and want some nice cafe bars - anyone got some or know where I can get them. Colours will be Ducati red with white ventral and black pinstripe, I'm making up my own indicator units with LEDS and moding the electrics to all fit under the ducktail. I had a real win and discovered a Haynes manual in perfect condition in the local library. Went down on a quiet day with the trusty camera and hey presto a complete manual AND I also got the XL500 as well. I've attached some of the performance data, and the difference is not that much at all. I can't see the 500 engine overpowering the frame especially as there will be less weight overall....Anyway thats a while away. A couple of Q's.

Wheres the best shop in OZ for the new parts.

Can respoking be done one at a time or do you have to to do it all at once.

What tone does a spoke correctly tightened make. (fuk I sound like Yoda)

How do you remove the cush drive rubbers, the 500 manual has better instructions but says you must use a propriety tool ie pay your Honda dealer.

[maybegunnadoo]

Look what I found, I full service manual, follow the link. It's not the best and is in 3 languages but is a lot more comprehensive than the standard Haynes one. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GO5D1KHA

[maybegunnadoo]

Feel like I'm talking to myself however.... I foung some Marzocchi Strada Ag rear shockies in really good trim. I've got a rebiuld kit coming for them and have modifyed them to fit on the lugs. The issue is that they are approx 1cm+ longer than the standard FVQ. Anyone know what effect this will have besides lifting the rear? Also could be some chain clearance issue as well. But they look shit hot! I've also decided against clip ons and am fitting some 'clubman' style bars as this will hopefully negate the need to move the pegs back. One last one, what weight fork oil, 5 or heavier and has anyone shimmed theirs or changed there spring?

[CookMySock]

Nah its interesting, mate. Keep posting!

Steve

[Latte]

Raising the rear will steepen the fork angle. This is supposed to quicken the steering which might be a good thing on a bike with relaxed geo. Wether you'll notice the difference though.......

[CookMySock]

Wether you'll notice the difference though.......You may not notice it puttering around, but at larger speeds and angles of lean the bars get really sensitive and light, which is kinda weird cornering it with fingertips.

Steve

[maybegunnadoo]

Wot a victory today, cortesy of my friendly bearing/seal mob I managed to replace most of the seals in the Marzocchis. Then of course discovered that the bladders were U/S. ( This was after accidently dropping the body and rendering the top into a bloody oval! why can't it al be straight forwards!!! Anyway I managed to make up a tool to remove the top cover of the shockie and get to the bladder. The feeling of success was so overwheming that I then put the new head bearings on and fitteds up all the new round headlight. Then went and did most of the front wheel....Wot a fukin' great day....

Anyway for the uninitiated out there I discovered a wonderful website called 'garage night' where a bunch of Aussie blokes (not yanks....hooray) fix there bikes using whats at hand and beer. It is a brilliant resource and I take my hat off.

the bike will be red with a white cental stripe and bleck pin striping. Also will have 'MV' decals and 'Moto Morso' insignia to reflect the manufacturer...Tastfully done of course

[CookMySock]

for the uninitiated out there I discovered a wonderful website called 'garage night' where a bunch of Aussie blokes (not yanks....hooray) fix there bikes using whats at hand and beer. It is a brilliant resource and I take my hat off. This could be a good resource for KB, as its rather difficult to show newbs how to do things over the internet.
I'll review it fully and post in a new thread about it, unless someone beats me to it. ;)

BTW, congrats of your day of progress! It's a great feeling getting ahead.

Steve

[Kickaha]

Wot a victory today, cortesy of my friendly bearing/seal mob I managed to replace most of the seals in the Marzocchis. Then of course discovered that the bladders were U/S.

You can still get new bladders for them here (http://www.marzocchi.co.uk/moto/850193-C.html), you will have to buy the whole kit, I think it took about 2-3 weeks from ordering to arrival

[maybegunnadoo]

I've known about the kit, but the priority is not spending vast amounts on items that can be fixed. I managed to get all the seals for the total of $20. The bladders both have tears in them so I have glued them with swimming pool repair glue (bostick0. I used this to replace all the valves on my kitesurfer and it will hold a lot of pressure. I then had a brain wave and went and got a tube of Sikaflex. This is a form of ultra-silicone, that sticks like sh*t to a blanket , is incredibly flexible and very tough. So I hope I have created a bladder within a bladder that will maintain the required pressure. the shockie usese between 28-43 psi but as it is a very light bike hopefully all I will need is the small amount.

Also due to funding I was unable to purchase new spokes and the old ones were petty ratty. I cleaned them up as nuch as poss and investigated some form of aluminium paint for them. None were very good as they all have that dreadful silver look. I then checked the contents of the shed and discovered an old can of Ormanoid. This is a tar and aluminium based roof sealant. I maneged to strain off a lot of the tar mixture and wass left with a form of pure paintable aluminium! Needless to say the old spokes have come up like new and will last until funding is at a better level....

Off to the wreakers now to dream at bits'n'pieces....

[maybegunnadoo]

Success to the stubbon....He who fixes gets VAST sense of satisfaction.....I came, I saw, I repaired etc etc.

Hope they bloody work!

[tychver]

I just got a TM38 pumper carb for $100. Bargain at twice the price!

High performance engine is back on track since I have a job again ^_^

[maybegunnadoo]

http://classiccarpicture.co.uk/?cat_id=44&prod_id=740&type=videos&video=QrF3WewryTg

WOW.....WOWEE look at this..............bloody fantastic! IT CAN BE DONE!

[maybegunnadoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJMmllW5eM&feature=player_embedded

EVEN BLOODY BETTER!!!!!

[NordieBoy]

I just got a TM38 pumper carb for $100. Bargain at twice the price!

High performance engine is back on track since I have a job again ^_^

Bargain at 1.5 x the price too :D

I never even thought of trying it on the XR250 :(

[dandandan]

Hey all, I remember seeing someone mention what the actual fork diameter of a cb250rs was somewhere in this thread but can't for the life of me find it. Anyone remember off the top of their head?

Thanks!

I still have a while to go with my baby but will post up when she is done.

PS. some really inspiring examples in this thread - love it!

[maybegunnadoo]

33mm I reckon you will find. Had a look at the new Honda cb125rs front end..........very interesting, it makes you realise what long travel suspension the Cb250rs has!.

On my front work is in temporary abayence due parental visit. Mind you got the Ace bars, grey smoke alloy indicators and LED tail light from Yank Land. The bars are bloody beautiful... Does anyone have the ability to test and see if a CB350 tank will fit on? Also the bloke with the 500rs on youtube never got back to me on my request for a bigger video of his bike. (See previous post)

Cheerrs

[maybegunnadoo]

Update 2.
Went into NT roads and dropped off all mod status for the bike to get approval so I can fit the 500 engine. Had an enormous tussle with the instrument cluster but ended up reasonably happy by chopping down the old base quite radically and using some lightweight alloy plate to create a base for the speedo I picked up. The idiot lights are LED. Still need to figure out how to finish it up tho. Checked out the 500 engine at the wreckers and I'll pick it up when I get the approval from Nt Gov. Unfortunately it looks like I'll have to respoke as the old ones still arn't up to scratch. The wet is ending here so hopefully will be able to do a bit more work as its been so bloody hot. Went to the superbikes on the weekend - 33C/ 94% humidity, the poor buggers from down south nearly died, but bloody great racing....

[CookMySock]

noice.


Steve

[tevie54]

Check out my latest video's of the CB250/500 RS on youtube