OK my thoughts on a new production class

[scott411]

i have been thinking of the problems with road racing and an entry level class to fill the void 250 proddy left

i remeber 250 Proddy being full of bikes, every brand had a bike, they were cheap to run, cheap on tyres, and had a value at the year they had a value at the end of the season, and most of our best riders now started in it.

how about a 450 motard class on prodcution rules,
before you all shake your heads and dismiss it, think about it for a while,

1, they are cheap to buy and build, you can find plety of them second hand, and they will haev a value at the end of the year, and you can go rtail riding and mx on them to keep fit,

2. every bike manufacture makes one, that means local shops can get ebhind their rider and help him out, or race one themselves,

3. they are easy on tyres and other comsumables, if you crash them they do not bend, and are not hard to fix if they do.

4. its already the biggest class at most club racedays in the north island,

5. lets face it, 30 more riders at all the national rounds would not hurt would it

i know the class would have its problems, like pukekohes back straight, but i think it is worth discussing,

what do the guys that race in here think about this comapred to a 650 twon production class, just trying to creat discussion
4.

[bistard]

A 650 twins racing class would be a good idea
The bikes should be standard & kept that way for at least the first year of racing so it can be monitored & to keep expenses down
So we have Suzuki SV,Hyosung,Kawasaki & Cagiva
I think the easiest way to start this is get hold of A big road racing club,the Vic Club for instance & get them to run the class in the winter series,then go to Paul Stewart at MNZ & say look we have done this,we have these numbers & it works
A good example of this,is why did we have Karts at a National Champ round at Manfeild,could we not find another class??

[roogazza]

I'd be in that tomorrow, if there was a class like that ! G.

[Goblin]

how about a 450 motard class on prodcution rules,
before you all shake your heads and dismiss it, think about it for a while,
I think it's a bloody good idea! Motard classes at club level and street circuits are HUGE! Wanganui had 46 entries in the program and Paeroa had 32, plus they attract a shitload of spectators. To see them at National level could only be good for the sport.

[scott411]

A 650 twins racing class would be a good idea
The bikes should be standard & kept that way for at least the first year of racing so it can be monitored & to keep expenses down
So we have Suzuki SV,Hyosung,Kawasaki & Cagiva


i think this idea has merit as well, however is 4 enough brands to make this class work,

450 mx bikes are made by Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha, KTM, Husaberg, Husqvana, TM, Benelli, Aprilla, VOR, and Buell has jsut annouced they are making a 450 mx bike out in 08 or 09,

[bistard]

The problem with 450MX bikes is,Yes its ok at street meetings,but they suffer big time at a purpose built track,as in struggle with the long straights & is really bad for engine life,reving a single that hard for that long,just ask the guys who are currently doing it & will be boring in a straight line
As for are four manufacturers,yes,if we go back to 250 proddie days,towards the end,it was only rgvs,that were available
The plus side for 450MX bikes,is you road race one weekend,& with a few minor alterations,you are riding in the dirt the next week
Most of the commitee of the Vic Club are KB members,so lets get a show of hands for a 650 Production class & see if we can have a class at the Vic Winter Series
Another way to keep the racing close is the prospect of a one brand tyre battle
So theres my 2 cents worth

[Shaun]

So most road racers complain that it is too exspensive to go road racing ( And it is) So we offer a new class, that the bike can be road raced one weekend, and then MotoXd the next? So where does that money come from?

NOT trying to discredit your very good effort here!

I have said it in another thread, and will again, the real problem with road racing in NZ is the riders:dodge:

No one speaks up at the race track really, No one bothers to sit down and write a hard copy letter to the road race commisioner, yet a huge % are prepared to get on different internet forums and make bold statements, and they do it under a sign on name? wtf

I know this can-will read as quite negative but, after saying all that, there are 3-5 really good riders out there at the moment, and a quite a few more in the junior classes, but will these younger riders continue on?

It is time to go back to grass routs

Oyster really hit on the head with his post another racing thread on here, if some one really wants to do some thing to incease our racing and top riders for the future, Go and do it, what ever IT is, get a rider a 125cc Motox bike, or a supermotard, or a pile of shite from your local wrecker, just get them on 2 wheels because No matter what, a GOOD rider is riding, they will look and go good:yes: and then there will be the rest, as per the pecking order in life:rockon:

[scott411]

I have said it in another thread, and will again, the real problem with road racing in NZ is the riders:dodge:


this is not only a problem in road racing, it is a problem in MX, enduro and probably every other form of racing as well, 90% of the riders don't care much, they pay their entry fee, they race when their told to and they go home,

[Shaun]

this is not only a problem in road racing, it is a problem in MX, enduro and probably every other form of racing as well, 90% of the riders don't care much, they pay their entry fee, they race when their told to and they go home,


And there is the true problem!

[Ivan]

Yip thats true,


Alot of Riders sit around and bag the meeting but dont ever complain. COme on if you have an issue bring it up and the organisers of the meeting are there to make improvments.


And I also agree how many people actuallly care about racing?
How many guys go to a meeting and race for the fun?
And how many guys go to a meeting to win?

Alot of riders fall into the first catagory alot you dont see back the next year, either they got sick and tired of it or they did a year had fun and gave up.


Racing is going to always lack behind as alot of people dont want to help themselves by complaining to the club so the commitee get a chance to resolve the problem they want to come on internet forums like Shaun siad under a different alias and bag the meeting about how shit it was and how useless the commitee is,

But the commitee think they are doing the right things when they dont get a comlaint

my 2 cents

[James Deuce]

By all means complain, but at the same time offer to be part of the solution. Point out the problems and then offer to help solve them if you;ve raised what ends up being considered a valid issue.

Part of the issue as I can see it from the outside is that MNZ is developing a fortress mentality, and the various silos within the sport (offroad, road and speedway) don't try and help each other improve stuff across the board.

[Shaun]

Jim2, can you please explain what you mean by ( MNZ Developing a fortress mentality) ?

[James Deuce]

They seem to be (remember this is from the outside looking in) retreating into HQ and fending off criticism with a stick, while reducing their PR output to avoid more criticism.

The stuff in the trade mags is really good, but I saw a truck racing billboard in Petone and thought to myself how come there wasn't one up for the Manfied round of the Nationals? The Truck Racing billboard was produced by Manfield's PR people too, not the Truck Racing authority.

[Shaun]

They seem to be (remember this is from the outside looking in) retreating into HQ and fending off criticism with a stick, while reducing their PR output to avoid more criticism.

The stuff in the trade mags is really good, but I saw a truck racing billboard in Petone and thought to myself how come there wasn't one up for the Manfied round of the Nationals? The Truck Racing billboard was produced by Manfield's PR people too, not the Truck Racing authority.


I have no idea how you come up with that opinion Jim, have you had some dealings with the office, or have you seen some thing in print to justify that statement? Because to me it really just reads as a comment from some one wanting to say something? Hope I am wrong! I also know that all that is done by the staff in the office of MNZ with very good intent, YES, some times they get it wrong, but what buisness does not get the odd spanner in the works.

Truck racing has money in it, Big money, bike racing has NO money in it, hence Manfeild promotions spending money in an area that they know they will get a return from, no matter how much advertisement was done for the bikes, you would hardly notice a difference at the gate.

[James Deuce]

The sport's invisible. That's why there's no gate takings. As I kept saying it's from the outside looking in, which is the perspective of most people, though the majority of NZers would be surprised to find out that there is still organised motorcycle racing in NZ.

Just saying. No need to get defensive.

[Shaun]

The sport's invisible. That's why there's no gate takings. As I kept saying it's from the outside looking in, which is the perspective of most people, though the majority of NZers would be surprised to find out that there is still organised motorcycle racing in NZ.

Just saying. No need to get defensive.




I am not getting defensive Jim, just trying to find out what it is that MNZ are supposed to be doing wrong, so maybe I can pass on some comments to them to try and help make the sport better

PS, there was television advertisement this year as well as magazines as well as posters in bike shops ( Some) as well as the Internet, DAM, what more can be done?

[FROSTY]

This forum is a perfect reflection of road racing in New Zealand.
lots of people making noises and lots of others crying em down.
Yet FUCK ALL that pull their fingers out of their asses and actually DO something.
Dude if you want a 450 MX proddy class--get it going --get some momentum behind it
Proof positive of the power of just doing SOMETHING is the bloke who basicly singlehandedly created the 150 streetstock class in the south island.
45-50 bikes at ruapuna being raced and most of em by kids under 18 years old.

[stanko]

Pete Jones has had to work bloody hard to get Streetstock to the level it is at in the SI. If there were a few Pete Joneses in the NI ther would be grids of 200 bikes. Street stock is a formula that is accessable to almost anyone (helps if you have parents) and is a feeder to greater things. I belive this is where the next generation of winners will come from. Its motorcyclings equivelent of Karting, the best race car drivers come form karting.

Most of the "we want a new class" ideas dont seem to be too well thought out . Ive got a bla bla bike so we should have a class for them. Maybe we should say what sort of class do we need to have to help riders climb the ladder, instead we have a ladder with heaps of rungs missing and a few too close together.

As well as street stock Pete runs rider training for under 13's, the next step on the ladder is streetstock, then what ? 125's or 600's. F3 is a kinda clubmans class.

In Aussie there is a New honda CBR150 one model class just starting, do we need tighter formulas or will the kiwi no8 way suceed?

[Keystone19]

At the Manfeild round of the nationals this year MNZ called a meeting of all F3 racers and announced that plans were underway to introduce a Pro Twin Championship class. I believe this class will run concurrently with the current F3 class which will remain unchanged.

The proposed rules have been drafted. I do not currently have a copy but I believe there will be similar restrictions in the class as there are in 600 sports production e.g. treaded tyres must be run, front end and suspension must remain standard, rear suspension may be changed, power commander will be permitted, no engine modifications will be allowed, pipe may be changed although I am not sure if a full system will be allowed etc...There will be two divisions to the class - under 20 years of age and over 20 years of age.

MNZ is convinced this Championship level class will be run from the 2008 series and I understand that the key manufacturers have been consulted.

A supermotard class (run separately to F3 and protwins) would be exciting to watch. Look forward to seeing how you progress this idea Scott411.

[roadracingoldfart]

I think both classes mentioned at the early part of this thread have merit but i am sitting on the fence instead of picking a better option out of the two.
Run in a strictly enforced rule format , a formula of proddy bikes are a great leveler for new and seasoned racers, but the two suggested have differant styles to appeal to differant abilities.
I am very worried about the appathy amoung the racing fraternity lately as some will have seen i posted a thread on this forum and offered a free season on my bike to anyone wanting to go into a draw.
Well i got 7 applicants so far 3 females and 4 males and there have been over 350 views of the thread so what does that tell us all. Either very few want to commit to a season raceing or maybee because its free there must be a catch so nobody trusts me. :yes: :gob:
I would be hessitant to start a new class format with that kind of slackness showing out from under the layers of the road racing fans in this country
Cheers Paul.

[roogazza]

I don't read any whinging going on here, just a couple of blokes making suggestions. So if you want to kill them off as well, keep jumping on them !
It's a shame racing is like it is, but I count myself lucky that there were people around years ago that enjoyed being on committees and organising this stuff.
PC New Zealand killed off the street circuits, and that's when road racing died. (there you go , jump on that) G.

[Goblin]

The problem with 450MX bikes is,Yes its ok at street meetings,but they suffer big time at a purpose built track,as in struggle with the long straights & is really bad for engine life,reving a single that hard for that long,just ask the guys who are currently doing it & will be boring in a straight line
Would it be too much effort or too expensive to make a dirt section in the infield of the tracks like they used to have at Taupo? That way you could take out the long straights and have these bikes doing what they do best. This could also bring a lot of MX riders over to road racing. They managed it at Wanganui ok and the crowd loved it.

[bistard]

Would it be too much effort or too expensive to make a dirt section in the infield of the tracks like they used to have at Taupo? That way you could take out the long straights and have these bikes doing what they do best. This could also bring a lot of MX riders over to road racing. They managed it at Wanganui ok and the crowd loved it.

Hey Goblin,yes great point with the dirt section,but they have to come back on the track at some stage & there will be dirt & shit everywhere,so either set the dirt section up where it does not matter,or it has to be cleaned up before racing continues

[Goblin]

Hey Goblin,yes great point with the dirt section,but they have to come back on the track at some stage & there will be dirt & shit everywhere,so either set the dirt section up where it does not matter,or it has to be cleaned up before racing continues
Yes indeed! It could work well and I'd be more than willing to push broom to clear the dirt after a supermoto race. But I guess too many people would complain about the time this would take.

[Tim 39]

Pete Jones has had to work bloody hard to get Streetstock to the level it is at in the SI. If there were a few Pete Joneses in the NI ther would be grids of 200 bikes. Street stock is a formula that is accessable to almost anyone (helps if you have parents) and is a feeder to greater things. I belive this is where the next generation of winners will come from. Its motorcyclings equivelent of Karting, the best race car drivers come form karting.

Most of the "we want a new class" ideas dont seem to be too well thought out . Ive got a bla bla bike so we should have a class for them. Maybe we should say what sort of class do we need to have to help riders climb the ladder, instead we have a ladder with heaps of rungs missing and a few too close together.

As well as street stock Pete runs rider training for under 13's, the next step on the ladder is streetstock, then what ? 125's or 600's. F3 is a kinda clubmans class.

In Aussie there is a New honda CBR150 one model class just starting, do we need tighter formulas or will the kiwi no8 way suceed?

I fully agree with what you're saying here, I believe a 650 production class would be the best class to "fill the missing rung" having started on a streetstock 150 myself, I'd definetly say that the progression from being allowed to touch nothing, nothings adjustable, to everything being fully adjustable and a whole lot more expense and seriousness (125 now), is a huge step, so If I was on a 150 at the moment looking to move up, I'd be thinking get this bloody standard 650 class up and running.
I think the ideas of those people at manfeild about the mods allowed were well thought out and could work very well, all they need is support, once this gets going it will take off, I know heaps of people keen already
Bring it on, great for the sport