Your opinion on upgrade intervals and experience over years and k's?

[mynameis]

Hi to all.

This has been in my mind for a while but I do not have a proper indication/answer because I am not as experienced as some of you on here, therefore I thought I'd ask, what your opinion is on upgrading.

In my opinion, some people upgrade too soon, too much power way too early. I've seen mates lose it, bin bikes screw everything up, because they just lost it and couldn't control the bike and themselves.

So I think setting some sort of target before upgrading is a good idea and I am mainly talking about kilometers you put on and the bikes you ride in that timeframe as opposed to years of experience, as sometimes you can ride for 5 years and do only 20,000 k's on the contrary you can do more than 100,000 k's.

This is also just "normal" riding type which includes commuting, weekend blasts and a bit track days.

So my verdict:

First 10 000 k's less than 40 hp machine (250cc 4 stroke)
10 - 20 000 k's less than 70 hp machine (400 cc, 250 2 stroke, 650 V Twin)
20 - 40 000 k's less than 110 hp machine ( 600 cc)
40 - 60 000 k's less than 130 hp machine ( 750 cc)
60 000 k's and more 130 plus hp machine ( 1000 cc)

Obviously some will get there within 5 years some more. So tell me when you upgraded and why, decisions you made which you think were wrong/right and why? And what your opinion is of the above ? :)

In my opinion the more bikes you ride the more appreciation you have of different machines it's power and therefore at the end you come out a better rider much more skilled and equipped and you'll enjoy riding.

Adios Amigos :p

[Babelfish]

Dont know how many k's I've done overall, but went from 250 to 1000 in my last upgrade. That said, its a return to biking after 6 years off. I started out on 250 strokers, then FZR 400 (RIP) and plenty of mucking around on old 750 and 600. All that said, I'm pretty grounded on the 1000 and dont tend to push too far past my limits.

Depends on the person...I reckon some people shouldnt upgrade from a 50cc scoot

[Disco Dan]

So can ya ride? :shutup:

I would only upgrade when you have out ridden your current cc bike.
For example, ive had a couple of 250's the last of which I always ran out of power on. Hated how light it was and how small it was. Upgraded to a big heavy 600 and love the power, not enough to get me into trouble and heavy enough for me to learn cornering better with the extra stability. Some say I upgraded to early, because of my cornering style but im much more confident on my 600 and can see me being a better rider because of my upgrade... I know I made the right desicion, and so does the person who told me to upgrade (not on kb). havent looked back.

Its not something you can put a blanket scale on to know when to upgrade... although a very experienced friend of mine (who told me to upgrade) said that bigger bikes are actually easier to ride than smaller ones... as long as you have the restraint to stay within your limits power wise there is now reason for you not to upgrade... so many factors though...

EDIT: I still think your an idiot. But willing to let you earn my respect for you... ...well you just farked that up. Your loss.

[Brett]

To be perfectly honest, it depends on HOW you have been riding for those kms...I.e. riding down the motorway for your 20,000kms when it is deserted etc. is not going to help you one bit if you all of sudden head out into the country and hit twilight road or such.
Then again, you may have only done 5000kms of riding, and it has been intense track riding, and commuting and country riding all over a very short space of time and have enough maturity to move onto a bigger machine and be ready for it. Depends all on how you have been riding.
If you are asking specifically for yourself, I really dont think there is often a *need* to upgrade bikes...unless for example in my case, I was going around corners on a very very low lean angle and when hitting bumps I was bottoming the fairings out on the road...that is what you get for being 100kg of rider...
Alvin, I watched you at a recent track day...and you still have plenty of scope to go faster on the ZXR...no offence inteded at all, but you are not hitting corners with a lot of pace or forming solid lines. Of course, there are more reasons to upgrade than just going fast...so my statement may of course hold no weight at all. If you just want a bigger bike with more torque for around town riding, then I am sure you will be fine.
Eitherway, dont take offence at what I said, just contemplate it...I miss my ZXR, they offer plenty of fun, are much cheaper to run and fix and are over all pretty cool:rockon:

[mynameis]

So can ya ride? :shutup:

EDIT: I still think your an idiot. But willing to let you earn my respect back... *will be watching*

Thanks for your blab but I can openly lay a challenge on a public forum that I can whip your ass on that 600 you have with my little 250, (Taupo Tracks) no I don't think I am fast I know I am slow (when I compare myself to racers) but definitely faster than you.

I don't want to turn this into a shit thread already and want some constructive answers, so butt out Mr. You never had my respect and you never will mate.

[Disco Dan]

Thanks for your blab but I can openly lay a challenge on a public forum that I can whip your ass on that 600 you have with my little 250, (Taupo Tracks) no I don't think I am fast I know I am slow but definitely faster than you.

I don't want to turn this into a shit thread already and want some constructive answers, so butt out Mr. You never had my respect and you never will mate.

Still have the big ego and small ... :shutup: ..i see.

Im not a racer, and im sure you are faster.. on the track. But at the end of the day.. who cares? :whocares:

I gave you my advice and feedback. Feed your own ego.

[Babelfish]

Thanks for your blab but I can openly lay a challenge on a public forum that I can whip your ass on that 600 you have with my little 250, (Taupo Tracks) no I don't think I am fast I know I am slow but definitely faster than you.

I don't want to turn this into a shit thread already and want some constructive answers, so butt out Mr. You never had my respect and you never will mate.

woo hoo, scrap yee fookers

[mynameis]

To be perfectly honest, it depends on HOW you have been riding for those kms...I.e. riding down the motorway for your 20,000kms when it is deserted etc. is not going to help you one bit if you all of sudden head out into the country and hit twilight road or such.
Then again, you may have only done 5000kms of riding, and it has been intense track riding, and commuting and country riding all over a very short space of time and have enough maturity to move onto a bigger machine and be ready for it. Depends all on how you have been riding.
If you are asking specifically for yourself, I really dont think there is often a *need* to upgrade bikes...unless for example in my case, I was going around corners on a very very low lean angle and when hitting bumps I was bottoming the fairings out on the road...that is what you get for being 100kg of rider...
Alvin, I watched you at a recent track day...and you still have plenty of scope to go faster on the ZXR...no offence inteded at all, but you are not hitting corners with a lot of pace or forming solid lines. Of course, there are more reasons to upgrade than just going fast...so my statement may of course hold no weight at all. If you just want a bigger bike with more torque for around town riding, then I am sure you will be fine.
Eitherway, dont take offence at what I said, just contemplate it...I miss my ZXR, they offer plenty of fun, are much cheaper to run and fix and are over all pretty cool:rockon:
Cheers bro, I am definitely not thinking of upgrading at all even after I get my full which will be in less than 6 months time.

Love tha ZXR and having fun on it and know for sure I can push it way further than what I am doing right now. But I understand what you're saying :) Thanks for your feedback.

I think I last caught up with you at Puke track days which was a while back probably more than 8 months ( yeah leaving the squid ses :p ) but I have made slight improvements since then :D.

Check this thread out (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=45346)

[ninjac]

We ride motorcycles for our entertainment (commuting aside).
If you can confidently ride your current bike in all road environments, don't scare yourself too much, and are perhaps getting a little bored with your current rides size/power, then it is time to move up a class. This is regardless of distance traveled. IMHO it is best to go from 250cc to 600cc before 1000cc. I wouldn't bother with 400cc. If you are intending to be in this game for awhile, whats the rush going straight to a 1000cc machine. Just think how sweet it would be the day you graduate and buy yourself the latest 1000cc rocket. Knowing that you have earned it.

[Brett]

Cheers bro, I am definitely not thinking of upgrading at all even after I get my full which will be in less than 6 months time.

Love tha ZXR and having fun on it and know for sure I can push it way further than what I am doing right now. But I understand what you're saying :) Thanks for your feedback.

I think I last caught up with you at Puke track days which was a while back probably more than 8 months ( yeah leaving the squid ses :p ) but I have made slight improvements since then :D.

Check this thread out (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=45346)

Sweet mate, I was also the dude trying to help you get wheelies going at the second to last evening meet at hells :D

You seem to have got a fair bit better then on the cornering, keep working it...I am sure you will get better, those GPR 100's are aweseom tyres that can still be gripping well with the rubber being balled on the side of the tyre...they are awesome.

Keep working it man, and remember to work your lines, pick them upon entering and try focus on holding them...but Twist of the Wrist will help you with that!(I still haven't read it...been meaning too.)

[mynameis]

Sweet mate, I was also the dude trying to help you get wheelies going at the second to last evening meet at hells :D

You seem to have got a fair bit better then on the cornering, keep working it...I am sure you will get better, those GPR 100's are aweseom tyres that can still be gripping well with the rubber being balled on the side of the tyre...they are awesome.

Keep working it man, and remember to work your lines, pick them upon entering and try focus on holding them...but Twist of the Wrist will help you with that!(I still haven't read it...been meaning too.)

Yeah man I recall now haha still havent tried stand up on pegs yet, think that will work better. Yeah I am trying to constantly work on my lines eh watched a few clips some guys on 600's and 1000's around Taupo and their lines, helped me aye.

[R6_kid]

I think it comes down to your maturity and ability to ride a bike. Your skill set doesn't directly correlate with the amount of km's you have done. In saying that you could be the fastest man around a track and yet not be sensible on the road and become a hazard to yourself (and others).

When it comes to road riding in particular, the more time on the road would lead to you experiencing more different 'situations' and therefore being more safe, however you could have done something like the California Superbikes school, and a couple of advance handling skills courses, jump straight on to a 1000cc sportsbike, and with a bit of maturity be completely fine.

It's all about your top two inches and ability to know when its time to roll the throttle off.

It's simple physics, a bike with 100-140hp more that weighs maybe only 10-20kg more is going to get you to the next corner a lot faster than something with 40hp that weighs the same...

I think waiting until a certain amount of distance traveled before upgrading is kinda bullshit, only person that knows when you are ready to upgrade is yourself, but if you are going to judge that time on a certain distance then thats up to you.

Riding a variety of bikes is probably the only way you will know. Having said that i have ridden my 600, a late model 1100, and a Kawasaki ZXR250C and can tell you that each is quite enjoyable and each for different reasons... I've always thought that a 1000cc would be a bit mental, but after riding the 1100 for a few hours i think that it all comes back to what i said before about the top two inches and your ability to control your right wrist.

I think it comes down to your maturity and ability to ride a bike. Your skill set doesn't directly correlate with the amount of km's you have done. In saying that you could be the fastest man around a track and yet not be sensible on the road and become a hazard to yourself (and others).

When it comes to road riding in particular, the more time on the road would lead to you experiencing more different 'situations' and therefore being more safe, however you could have done something like the California Superbikes school, and a couple of advance handling skills courses, jump straight on to a 1000cc sportsbike, and with a bit of maturity be completely fine.

It's all about your top two inches and ability to know when its time to roll the throttle off.

It's simple physics, a bike with 100-140hp more that weighs maybe only 10-20kg more is going to get you to the next corner a lot faster than something with 40hp that weighs the same...

I think waiting until a certain amount of distance traveled before upgrading is kinda bullshit, only person that knows when you are ready to upgrade is yourself, but if you are going to judge that time on a certain distance then thats up to you.

Riding a variety of bikes is probably the only way you will know. Having said that i have ridden my 600, a late model 1100, and a Kawasaki ZXR250C and can tell you that each is quite enjoyable and each for different reasons... I've always thought that a 1000cc would be a bit mental, but after riding the 1100 for a few hours i think that it all comes back to what i said before about the top two inches and your ability to control your right wrist.


So can ya ride? :shutup:

I would only upgrade when you have out ridden your current cc bike.
For example, ive had a couple of 250's the last of which I always ran out of power on. Hated how light it was and how small it was.


No offence dude, but i dont think you personally could out ride a ZZR250, the only person I seen do it is motoracer, he was scraping the pipes around corners on the race track... Not to start and ego war but i would consider myself a better rider than you, in terms of ability to ride a bike to within 100% of its capabilities/timed around a track etc... last time i rode a 250cc machine on the road i didn't find one time where i didn't have enough power, and this is after riding a 100hp 600cc sportsbike for over a year. You hated how light a bike was? I'd like to hear what you say after sitting on a motoGP bike, which would be lighter than your ZZR250, I'm sure the worlds fastest don't complain about having light bikes! And even though we do tend to treat the rode as a racetrack, suggesting that one should only upgrade to a newer more powerful bike once they have out ridden their current bike isn't the right way to look at it, if however you were scraping everything on corners and it was becoming a danger for you to ride it then that would be a different story, but who rides like that on the road!:dodge:

[kevfromcoro]

Thanks for your blab but I can openly lay a challenge on a public forum that I can whip your ass on that 600 you have with my little 250, (Taupo Tracks) no I don't think I am fast I know I am slow (when I compare myself to racers) but definitely faster than you.

I don't want to turn this into a shit thread already and want some constructive answers, so butt out Mr. You never had my respect and you never will mate.

Been there done that.challeng a guy on a xr350 of road..i was on a yam 175..he blew the doors of me..had to eat humble pie.there is no way u are going to beat a 600.. ..ccs will win...

[R6_kid]

Been there done that.challeng a guy on a xr350 of road..i was on a yam 175..he blew the doors of me..had to eat humble pie.there is no way u are going to beat a 600.. ..ccs will win...

dunno, it can come down to rider ability... i've passed many a man on his ZX10R at Taupo on my 600 that was atleast 4-5years older than their 1000's... straight line speed isnt everything. Taupo track, i would say that Texmo could keep up with if not beat most 600cc riders on here with his old ZXR250C, haven't seen mynameis or disco dan riding lately but that ZXR has a fair bit of ground clearance compared to the GSX600, also has a sportier suspension setup, with a good rider on the 250 i reckon it'd be worth betting on.

[Disco Dan]

I think it comes down to your maturity and ability to ride a bike.

I agree, ive ridden a 1100 around and loved it. Diddnt kill myself on it because I took it easy - just because the power is there doesnt mean you have to use it.


No offence dude, but i dont think you personally could out ride a ZZR250, the only person I seen do it is motoracer, he was scraping the pipes around corners on the race track...

Still had chicken strips when I sold it, but my riding style and ability level did not match that bike very well. What use is to being able to scrape the pipes?

i would much rather be on a more powerful bike and work towards fine tuning my skill level on it then ride a 250cc tourer and try and use up the last 2-3% of it's capabilities!

...I never said I was faster than you! You have much more experience than I and a very diferent riding style to me. I prefer long distance touring than short high speed twisties using up every square inch of my tyres!

[bmz2]

after reading this thread ,i think half of you should go back to the basic 50cc,you talk about how fast you can go ,and HOW you can out ride each other , this is not about how well you think you can ride, and i make the statement how well you think you can ride................, but when you should upgrade to a larger bike, upgrades should be when you loose your ego, ,once you master the riding changes required , then you can upgrade, while you are still trying to get your bike onto one wheel and how fast you can ride a corner and how many bikes you can beat , if you upgrade in this mode then god help us, please post which road that you will be ridding on, so I CAN GO THE OTHER WAY AND BE SAFE,

[Steam]

upgrades should be when you loose your ego,...
please post which road that you will be ridding on, so I CAN GO THE OTHER WAY AND BE SAFE,

Lol, good points, have some bling.:sunny:

[Disco Dan]

Lol, good points, have some bling.:sunny:

Dito.... :yes: :yes: :yes:

[mynameis]

I think it comes down to your maturity and ability to ride a bike. Your skill set doesn't directly correlate with the amount of km's you have done. In saying that you could be the fastest man around a track and yet not be sensible on the road and become a hazard to yourself (and others).

When it comes to road riding in particular, the more time on the road would lead to you experiencing more different 'situations' and therefore being more safe, however you could have done something like the California Superbikes school, and a couple of advance handling skills courses, jump straight on to a 1000cc sportsbike, and with a bit of maturity be completely fine.

It's all about your top two inches and ability to know when its time to roll the throttle off.

It's simple physics, a bike with 100-140hp more that weighs maybe only 10-20kg more is going to get you to the next corner a lot faster than something with 40hp that weighs the same...

Thanks for the insight and a peek into your way of looking at things, good post mate, you always bring unique perspective which is awesome! I definitely agree with some of the points highlighted.

I strongly believe we all should kinda develop different mindsets when we're riding, for example when I am out commutting I take it really easy and never ever push myself, I just nana it, but when out in quite roads and track days it's different.

I think having those qualities will save lives and a whole lot more.


Been there done that.challeng a guy on a xr350 of road..i was on a yam 175..he blew the doors of me..had to eat humble pie.there is no way u are going to beat a 600.. ..ccs will win...

Now we're comparing apples with pears, road bikes with off road. Not sure if you have been to many track days or not but a very few I've been to I've seen guys from KB on 250cc's whip guys on proper 600's like 6R R6 K4 600 and CBR 600 let alone a GSXF. So if you're thinking it can't be done you are wrong it can be done.

[Morcs]

Hi to all.
So my verdict:

First 10 000 k's less than 40 hp machine (250cc 4 stroke)
10 - 20 000 k's less than 70 hp machine (400 cc, 250 2 stroke, 650 V Twin)
20 - 40 000 k's less than 110 hp machine ( 600 cc)
40 - 60 000 k's less than 130 hp machine ( 750 cc)
60 000 k's and more 130 plus hp machine ( 1000 cc)

Adios Amigos :p

that is a very sensible plan, though i would group the 750 with the 600 class.

I personally went:
50cc for 1.5 years
180cc for 1.25 years
250 for 5 months
400 til present (2 months)
Plan get a 600 early next year.

Also depends what you want, i find the 400 has pretty much everything i can want, and prefer it to the zx10 (exept for posing :laugh:)

And because of the careful, disclipined steps i was able to jump on a thou and be sweet as.

There are always people who can easily jump straight off a 250 onto a 600/750/1000, but i can gaurantee if you take small steps you will be a far more skilled rider at the end of the day

[Kendog]

The wife went from a less than 40 hp GN250 to a 100 hp CB900 in under 10,000km (and way back I went from an FXR150 to a CBR600)

Your guide is good, but it is just that, a guide. Sensible, mature people can move larger steps without difficulty.

[Back Fire]

I went to a K6 1000 after 2 years and about 30,000km of riding... and I was 19 when I got it... I have yet to crash it because I lost control of it, or myself on it

[Karma]

Pah...

I started on a 65hp ZXR400, rode that for a year and jumped to a 160hp (ish) GSXR1000.

Something which is perhaps being overlooked is the physical problems you'd have on bikes, anyone that's seen me on the 400 would know that it was way too small for me to ride (think krusty the clown on his mini-bike), so the trade to the gix was more about size than power.

As has been said many many times, it's all about taking it easy and controling your throttle hand, sometimes peoples can't do that and they end up on the tarmac... natural selection in action.

[Back Fire]

Pah...

I started on a 65hp ZXR400, rode that for a year and jumped to a 160hp (ish) GSXR1000.



hah! I went from a 9hp 125 to a 120hp gsxr 600.... pah yourself! I beat you by 14hp....

[Disco Dan]

Your guide is good, but it is just that, a guide. Sensible, mature people can move larger steps without difficulty.

Exactly. No offence to you Morcs, because the way your going you will end up a primo rider.... ....but if you lack maturity and the ability to control your right hand, then upgrade slowly following that guide or something similar.

[Wolf]

I started on a 65hp ZXR400, rode that for a year and jumped to a 160hp (ish) GSXR1000.
...
As has been said many many times, it's all about taking it easy and controling your throttle hand, sometimes peoples can't do that and they end up on the tarmac... natural selection in action.
My great uncle Owen started out on a 1340cc H-D - 15 years old, no helmet and on gravel roads - because you did, back then. As he's still alive, I dare say he executed a lot of control on the throttle hand

It aint the bike, it's the loose nut on the throttle that matters.

Under current legislation a person's first bike could be a 250cc 2-stroke crotch rocket - the rider could take it easy and learn to ride safely or (s)he could cane it and laminate themselves onto the scenery. A person could get a 50cc moped, make a careless manouevre and wind up dead.

[Morcs]

Exactly. No offence to you Morcs, because the way your going you will end up a primo rider.... ....but if you lack maturity and the ability to control your right hand, then upgrade slowly following that guide or something similar.

Indeed so. Different learning strokes for different folks.

Id marginally say i lack the maturity to own a thou, the fact im riding someone elses strangely makes me slightly maturer.

I am a firm believer though of being able to ride the current bike to its full potential before upgrading, not having a dig at you Dan... lol :dodge:

[Babelfish]

I am a firm believer though of being able to ride the current bike to its full potential before upgrading, not having a dig at you Dan... lol :dodge:

Shite, if I went by that rule I'd never get another bike...maybe thats cool on the track where you can somewhat afford the experiment but on the road its a different story

[MotoGirl]

I don't necessarily agree that you need truckloads of km under your belt before you ride a bigger bike. By the time I got a road bike, I'd been riding bikes (offroad) for nearly 10 years. Within a week of riding a road bike (ZZR250) I was taking a pillion. I was onto a 600 Bandit within six months and capable of riding our VN1500 Vulcan within a year. Yeah, they were big jumps, but doing it this way taught me one thing - being sensible.

Riding a variety of bikes does give you more appreciation for their power - how you handle each one depends on your ability to control the throttle!

[bmz2]

:rockon: after reading some post after my reply ,you are starting to get what i have been saying , maturity, :yes: i started on a 125 cr honda racing dirt track in 1976 , at the same time i was racing my hemi 340v8 charger yes ,340 one of the few in the country, broke more bones than i can count on my 125 , but it made me a better rider and driver, after my youth i left riding to the the guys who could not afford to buy a car, found the car got more girls , never without a blonde beside me , married the b...t..h in the end , never aloud a bike when i was married car went as well, but now ............ still have a blonde 15 years younger and have the v8 jeep ,boat,530i, house, pool, and most of all the beast m109r it's like driving the old hemi :yes: , so the morale of the story is slow down and wait and it will happen and you will live to enjoy it, i know i do, :rockon: nz riders

[bmz2]

better show a pic of the beast, and thats the other blonde in my life

[Babelfish]

:rockon: after reading some post after my reply ,you are starting to get what i have been saying , maturity, :yes: i started on a 125 cr honda racing dirt track in 1976 , at the same time i was racing my hemi 340v8 charger yes ,340 one of the few in the country, broke more bones than i can count on my 125 , but it made me a better rider and driver, after my youth i left riding to the the guys who could not afford to buy a car, found the car got more girls , never without a blonde beside me , married the b...t..h in the end , never aloud a bike when i was married car went as well, but now ............ still have a blonde 15 years younger and have the v8 jeep ,boat,530i, house, pool, and most of all the beast m109r it's like driving the old hemi :yes: , so the morale of the story is slow down and wait and it will happen and you will live to enjoy it, i know i do, :rockon: nz riders

Scuse me while I pull out me toss rod and join you mate, cant have you strokin that by yerself :tugger: