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Swoop
20th March 2007, 07:53
From the Harold...

Tuesday March 20, 2007
By Paula Oliver
Should it be harder for young people to get a licence?

Laws covering young drivers seem likely to be toughened as growing calls for an overhaul to the licensing system find favour in the Beehive.

A spate of serious crashes involving young drivers has put the licensing system under the microscope, and Transport Safety Minister Harry Duynhoven yesterday said "there has to be some change".

He is floating the idea of putting a time limit on how long a driver can hold a restricted licence, and making people who commit offences go back to the start of their restricted period.

"I think we need to say that once you've got your restricted, if you haven't done your full licence test within two, three years, whatever, you start again," Mr Duynhoven said.

"You don't have a licence, it expires."

Mr Duynhoven advocates compulsory third party insurance as a way of eliminating the "boy racer problem", and wants to improve the level of driver testing in New Zealand.

He has also expressed concern that drivers can pass a licence test in a tiny car such as a Fiat Bambina, then go out and get a powerful V8.


Transport officials are looking at ways of dealing with the large number of drivers who breach the conditions of learner and restricted licences.

Young drivers are over-represented in crash statistics compared with older drivers, despite a recent improvement.

Common offences committed by young drivers on restricted licences include driving after 10pm without being accompanied by a person who has held a full licence for at least two years, and carrying friends as passengers when they are not allowed to.

Mr Duynhoven said fines for such offences were not working because a young driver's parents often paid, or a group of youngsters in a car would split the bill between them.

"If we have a system where the consequences of breaking the law are seen as minimal or non-existent, and where there is no effective sanction, we can have the best systems in the world but people aren't going to comply with it," he said.

The Ministry of Transport is investigating changes to penalties for driving offences.

Among the ideas it is considering is "diminishing demerits" - where a driver disqualified for getting 100 demerit points does not automatically go back to zero after serving the disqualification.

Instead, the driver might go back to 70 points, meaning that another offence could result in his or her being disqualified again.

It is thought demerit points might be more effective than fines in punishing some offences, particularly those by young and novice drivers.

Mr Duynhoven said New Zealand's main problem was the culture among drivers, which was quite different from that of other countries.

"In New Zealand we have the 'I'm 15, it's my right to have a driver's licence' mentality," he said.

"We don't have an equal mentality of 'Hey, I'm 15, I'm beginning to learn to drive, I better be responsible'."

Among those calling for change to the licensing system are the police and the Automobile Association.

A new compulsory driving course is among the changes being pushed.

The Government is unlikely to increase the age at which people can start obtaining a driving licence.

Mr Duynhoven said he felt 15 was too young, but he did not think changing the age would improve standards.

He said evidence around the world showed that crashes tended to happen in the first two years of driving, whether the person began at 15 or 18 or older.

Wasp
20th March 2007, 08:03
I like this idea even though I am one of these "young" drivers (rider, dont have a car)

Deviant Esq
20th March 2007, 08:09
I agree in principal - except where they say raising the age wouldn't help. I think it would, but anyway.

In the UK if you don't have your full licence and you get in shit, you're at much higher risk of losing it. Using the demerit points system like New Zealand, it would mean anyone on their learners or restricted could only incur the equivalent of 50 demerit points before losing their licence and having to start all over again right from the start. The cost of getting a driving licence is much higher in the UK too. Now, I understand young people can't really afford much more than they already pay in NZ... but a higher cost would hopefully make them value it a bit more, if they actually had to save up a bit to pay for it - a few weeks less weed maybe.

yungatart
20th March 2007, 08:14
They want to make changes to driver testing - what about making changes to driver education first?

Mr. Peanut
20th March 2007, 09:04
Maybe if we spaced ourselves out a bit instead of all squishing up in Auckland, we'd be less likely to smash into each other :mellow:

ManDownUnder
20th March 2007, 09:15
FWIW I know Harry and he's got a relevant background in motoring (he'll swing a spanner with the best of them...)

Re the young drivers I think they need a more comprehensive driver training regime - decent training facilities so they get to know how to handle a car, and the potential damage a car can do.

A power restriction on the licence would be useful as would limitations on blood alcohol levels, driver curfews and the requirement to have someone licenced in the car with them.

Make the introductory licence easy to achieve based on a skill and theoretical test, but easy to lose if something stupid happens (by stupid I mean intentional acts of stupidity - speeding, drinking and driving and the like).

Ixion
20th March 2007, 09:22
Changes to the licencing test won't achieve anything. Young guys will easily pass any technical test, the only people affected by a tougher test would be the timid girls , who are not the problem.

The problem is the ten foot high bulletproof testosterone fueled nature of young men.

When taking the test they are on their best behaviour and will easily pass. Then they go out with their mates , and do absolutely stupid shit . As we all did at that age.

Restrictions on the power of what they can drive *might* help at least make less of a bang when they crash. Maybe.

And tightening up on having mates in the car (any passenger must be over 25 maybe), because it is when they are caught up in the teenage pissing contests that they do stupid shit.

Or castration. That would solve the problem.

Patrick
20th March 2007, 09:31
Changes to the licencing test won't achieve anything. Young guys will easily pass any technical test, the only people affected by a tougher test would be the timid girls , who are not the problem.

The problem is the ten foot high bulletproof testosterone fueled nature of young men.

When taking the test they are on their best behaviour and will easily pass. Then they go out with their mates , and do absolutely stupid shit . As we all did at that age.

Restrictions on the power of what they can drive *might* help at least make less of a bang when they crash. Maybe.

And tightening up on having mates in the car (any passenger must be over 25 maybe), because it is when they are caught up in the teenage pissing contests that they do stupid shit.

Or castration. That would solve the problem.

True....

But most of the prangs and bad driving I see is usually the older male (over 20 and under 40) with mum and the kids in the car... too late for castration there...

Curious_AJ
20th March 2007, 21:39
oh no... tougher rules.. there goes me being able to drive.... im already sure to fail my restricted!!

Waylander
20th March 2007, 21:50
If they don't care about losing their licence or breaching conditions now, why would they care if it's easier to do so?

Curious_AJ
20th March 2007, 22:00
exactly..... very good point... i dont think they would care either way...

scumdog
20th March 2007, 22:41
If they don't care about losing their licence or breaching conditions now, why would they care if it's easier to do so?

Cos there is also the "we're now going to take your car off you for ever" bit that nobody has yet mentioned...

Wasp
20th March 2007, 22:48
Cos there is also the "we're now going to take your car off you for ever" bit that nobody has yet mentioned...
and crush the boy ricers cars into aluminium cubes?! please oh please tell me you wont let them take the stereo out before hand :Punk:

somehow i like the idea of my tax money going into crusing cars....

Switch
20th March 2007, 22:56
Raise the age. Make COMPULSORY (sp) driver training, e.g. actually learn how to drive properly.
But most of all, i think they should restrict the car engine size. 1.3L or below for learners? under 2L for restricted? although, there are some mighty fast 2L cars around, so duno if that would help out much.
Definetly tougher fines.
EVERYONE has to have INSURANCE to drive? at least that way they are covered no matter what, and it means it would cost them more to own the car.
:done:

Ixion
20th March 2007, 22:56
Perhaps not forever. I do not know that anyone has proposed confiscation, let alone crushing (though it is done in the UK, but then the UK has become quite a fascist state nowdays).But even a 30 day impoundment would be a sobering thing to most young people. What with pound fees and all. And especially if its Dad's car. Or Mum's. Even if it isnt. it'd be pretty embarrasing. And hard to explain to the olds.

Wasp
20th March 2007, 23:06
the problem with removing offenders cars is that they will just go in their mates car, this of course cycles events and eggs the driver on possibly resulting in the same fate for the person giving the lift to the other person

not to mention overloaded cars and the danger this poses

it would get a few to stop and think and realise its not worth it but i dont think it would solve the problem

Patrick
21st March 2007, 00:10
Perhaps not forever. I do not know that anyone has proposed confiscation, let alone crushing (though it is done in the UK, but then the UK has become quite a fascist state nowdays).But even a 30 day impoundment would be a sobering thing to most young people. What with pound fees and all. And especially if its Dad's car. Or Mum's. Even if it isnt. it'd be pretty embarrasing. And hard to explain to the olds.

Getting it crushed would be harder to explain to the olds...:rockon:

I thought the UK fought the Fascists?

Ixion
21st March 2007, 00:19
I thought the UK fought the Fascists?

Aye , so they did. Then. But , nowdays, alas,

"That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself"

scumdog
21st March 2007, 01:05
the problem with removing offenders cars is that they will just go in their mates car, this of course cycles events and eggs the driver on possibly resulting in the same fate for the person giving the lift to the other person

not to mention overloaded cars and the danger this poses

it would get a few to stop and think and realise its not worth it but i dont think it would solve the problem

Hmmmm, even the best of mates would cringe at having their cars impounded. (and possibly crushed).

Insanity_rules
21st March 2007, 01:52
Problem is it still won't stop the little bastards though!

Hawkeye
21st March 2007, 03:34
Removing their wheels 'may' have a side affect. To get their 'fix', they may venture into the 'borrowing' of others cars without permission just to have that little blast that they miss.

I do agree with the limited power suggestion. There is one rule for bikes and another for cages. Why, when we are restricted to 250cc until after the full, do cages not have a similar rule. When I bought my second cage that the son's were going to drive, I deliberately bought a lower CC than I actually would have preferred (or the son's would have preferred).

I also think that restricted drivers should have to display something showing they are restricted. I think it was Ireland where in the first year after passing the full, they had a 'R' plate to let others know. It would certainly help with the monitoring. Not displaying the 'R' plate would push up the demerits and the fines and raise the risk of losing the wheels.

.