Case of the missing nut

[vamr]

Arg...

Was riding home yesterday and felt the rear skipping on corners and road imperfections, got home, checked the chain (which was quite tight for some reason), tire pressure seemed fine, suspension as normal, alignment off...

Today rolled the bike out to do the alignment and lo and behold, the nut off the rear wheel's securing bolt (I made that name up) is gone! ... guess was lucky it didn't end up as an ugly off riding the it in this condition.

So, any idea on how easy it'll be to source a replacement (to hopefully a stock part :innocent: ) for a krr150?

56680

[Disco Dan]

dropping your nuts is never a good thing at the best of times... where was your split pin.. ya know the one that stops the nut from falling off it becomes loose?? ...Nut insurance if you like...

[vamr]

dropping your nuts is never a good thing at the best of times... where was your split pin.. ya know the one that stops the nut from falling off it becomes loose?? ...Nut insurance if you like...

Your guess is as good as mine, last time I checked it was in place... certainly still is on the front wheel's one.

Looks like it'll be back to 4 wheel commuting (with dreaded parking fees) until the problem is resolved. :bye:

[The Stranger]

Arg...

the nut off the rear wheel's securing bolt (I made that name up) is gone! ...


Usually referred to as an axle.
When did you last adjust the chain, have it serviced or get a new tyre?

[Macktheknife]

Go to your local bike shop or even a hardware store and try out some new nuts.

[vamr]

Usually referred to as an axle.
When did you last adjust the chain, have it serviced or get a new tyre?

Around a month ago, everything was peachy (including the securing pin), generally check it every 500km when I lube the chain.

[The Stranger]

Around a month ago, everything was peachy (including the securing pin), generally check it every 500km when I lube the chain.

Well, no, everything wasn't peachy. These things don't just happen. Either it was sabotage or 2 mistakes were made. If it was a shop who last worked on it, I think you should go back to them and ask for an explanation, if it was you, I really think you need to take more care. Hopefully you have a torque wrench and you should replace the split pin each time it is removed.

[vamr]

Well, no, everything wasn't peachy. These things don't just happen. Either it was sabotage or 2 mistakes were made. If it was a shop who last worked on it, I think you should go back to them and ask for an explanation, if it was you, I really think you need to take more care. Hopefully you have a torque wrench and you should replace the split pin each time it is removed.

As this bike hasn't seen the inside of the shop in my 'loving' care can't blame anyone but myself for anything that goes wrong (or the powers that be...yes....).

Don't have a torque wrench but I do have a small plastic mullet which is similar I assume. Last time I required one (head) I had to borrow but not knowing the recommended torque values (I just assumed they would be around those of the rg150) negates that whole idea except when you have a whole bunch of bolts that need to be relatively the same.

Ah, that'd probably be it, have been reusing the same one for around 6 months.

[Ixion]

You don't really need a torque wrench for an axle bolt. Just tighten it to twitchy tight and a fraction more. that's why you have the split pin.

[Horney1]

Bummer VAMR. I'd also have a careful look at the condition of the thread on the axle to. It could be that it's stuffed or the nut thread was. Hard to imagine anything other than sabotage really! If it had a split pin in it shouldn't have come off unless the thread was stuffed or the split pin had been reused a number of times AND had become fractured (on both sides?) THEN broke AND worked its way out AND the nut was reasonablly loose to begin with. I don't think 500kms is really enough to do all of that... I'd pursue the sabotage angle! (conspiracy, conspiracy) or cut down on the drugs.... Actually, on rethink it could be that the split pin was not installed correctly with enough of a bend in it and worked it's way out, but, 500ks?


dropping your nuts is never a good thing at the best of times... where was your split pin.. ya know the one that stops the nut from falling off it becomes loose?? ...Nut insurance if you like...

Disco, I'm nervous every time I look at my KTM axle which doesn't even have a split pin. How can they make a bike with no axle split pin!!? AND the nut is alloy so I have to be careful not to over-tighten and strip it to. Give me a plain 'ol steel split pin any day!

VAMR, it looks like you got a cheap lesson in being very careful and thorough with any maintenance in future.

Cheers

[vamr]

Bummer VAMR. I'd also have a careful look at the condition of the thread on the axle to. It could be that it's stuffed or the nut thread was. Hard to imagine anything other than sabotage really! If it had a split pin in it shouldn't have come off unless the thread was stuffed or the split pin had been reused a number of times AND had become fractured (on both sides?) THEN broke AND worked its way out AND the nut was reasonablly loose to begin with. I don't think 500kms is really enough to do all of that... I'd pursue the sabotage angle! (conspiracy, conspiracy) or cut down on the drugs.... Actually, on rethink it could be that the split pin was not installed correctly with enough of a bend in it and worked it's way out, but, 500ks?

...it looks like you got a cheap lesson in being very careful and thorough with any maintenance in future.

Cheers

Will be sure to interegate with malice my so called classmates at the earliest convenience!

Yes indeed, will be sure to get a sizable quantity of split pins to avoid such scenarios in the future. Cheers for the advice.

By the way, if you have the time would you mind writing up a review of your KTM please?

[Horney1]

Will be sure to interegate with malice my so called classmates at the earliest convenience!

Yes indeed, will be sure to get a sizable quantity of split pins to avoid such scenarios in the future. Cheers for the advice.

By the way, if you have the time would you mind writing up a review of your KTM please?

No worries, I've done the occassional "how the fark did I miss that!" trick in the past to and hopefully I'm getting better at getting it right (MOST OF THE TIME!) after all these years. It always pays to have a second look/ check over critical things before you cover it up or before you pack the tools away.

I'll try to get something together on the KTM.... might take a while, I've got to remember to do it when I get home from work. (Hmmm, it's about that time to. The traffic should have thinned a bit on the Melbourne roads by now - 18:30hrs, so 45km of CO here I come.)

Cheers.

[The Stranger]

You don't really need a torque wrench for an axle bolt. Just tighten it to twitchy tight and a fraction more. that's why you have the split pin.

Well, maybe you don't need a torque wrench, but.
1) Any workshop manual will recommend you do have and use one.
2) The manufacturer will specify a torque value for an axle nut.
3) I have never seen any nut which has been correctly torqued work loose in normal service.
4) It would be jolly handy for those (like myself) who don't know what "twitcy tight" is.

Also it is one thing for someone with experience to guess an appropriate torque, but i don't consider it wise to assume everyone is in posession of your superior mechanical abilities.
Tests conducted using experienced mechanics show they can average about +- 35% of a specified torque.

Also on some bikes they do not use a castle nut and the pin is not in contact with the nut, so it has no ability to retain the nut in a given position.

[Ixion]

Oh, by all means use one if one is available. Just pointing out that an axle nut is not one of the applications where precise torque is critical, and not everyone has access to one.

[What?]

Your guess is as good as mine, last time I checked it was in place... certainly still is on the front wheel's one.

There's a lesson there for you, vamr - check the bike over before every ride! A quick check on axle nuts, pins, tyres etc only costs a minute of your time, but could save you your life. Make a habit of it, and before long it will be instinctive. And don't forget to test your brakes before you get out of your driveway.

[vamr]

There's a lesson there for you, vamr - check the bike over before every ride! A quick check on axle nuts, pins, tyres etc only costs a minute of your time, but could save you your life. Make a habit of it, and before long it will be instinctive. And don't forget to test your brakes before you get out of your driveway.

For sure, cheers for the advice. Picked up a few R-pins to keep the new nut in place.

[peasea]

As this bike hasn't seen the inside of the shop in my 'loving' care can't blame anyone but myself for anything that goes wrong (or the powers that be...yes....).

"Don't have a torque wrench but I do have a small plastic mullet ...."

A plastic mullet? I'd like to see that. Does anyone remember plastic Beatle wigs from the 60's? (Crap, am I THAT old?)

YES! Replace the split pin every time, they only cost a few cents or get an assortment box, very handy.

[Madness]

Don't have a torque wrench but I do have a small plastic mullet which is similar I assume.
They are virtually identical in every way. Why do you think those Baurepaires guys all have them?




Well, maybe you don't need a torque wrench, but....it is one thing for someone with experience to guess an appropriate torque, .....tests conducted using experienced mechanics show they can average about +- 35% of a specified torque.
Many cheap (under $100) made in Taiwan or China Torque Wrenches will give you a similar level of accuracy. particularly at either end of the scale of the given Wrench. The only area of a bike I'd be concerned enough to use a Torque Wrench on would be the engine. Twitchy tight works for me.

[vifferman]

You think that's bad - one whole half of my swingarm fell off! :shit:

[The Stranger]

Many cheap (under $100) made in Taiwan or China Torque Wrenches will give you a similar level of accuracy. particularly at either end of the scale of the given Wrench. The only area of a bike I'd be concerned enough to use a Torque Wrench on would be the engine. Twitchy tight works for me.

Agreed on the cheap torque wrenches, and hey fine by me how you work on your own bike. But as I say, I don't however believe that it is appropriate to expect others to have your abilities. Aff-Man was sure he had his callipers done up properly too, just before one fell off (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=24324&highlight=great+calliper+hunt)and he found out whilst braking for a corner. he was lucky, the next one may not be.

Oh, and there is a certain member who ran his engine on account of the sump plug falling out during a race. Wonder if he (or the other riders in that race) wished that a torque wrench had been used? nah, who needs one aye.

[ManDownUnder]

Hey small point, and maybe it's a lack of mechanical experience...

But during my time as a fitter, and the last 20something years of owning a bike... I have NEVER seen a castellated nut and split pin fail/fall off/be gone - like yours did.

I'd be looking for someone that thought it'd be funny to see what happenes when "the bike goes all wiggly"

Watch yourself. Brake lines, wheel nuts etc...

[Ixion]

I've known a split pin fail and disappear, though only when it wasn't properly fitted (only one leg bent over, which snapped off).

But I've never knbown an axle nut , split pinned or not, to completely disappear.

Yith, it sounds odd to me.

[vamr]

You think that's bad - one whole half of my swingarm fell off! :shit:

Those bastard magpies! Time for a lead swingarm me thinks.

[Pancakes]

Yeah, If your gonna shell out for a torque wrench get one that you trust the numbers on. Why pay lots for a tool that lies to you? Half price isn't cheap for the wrong answer! You hardly ever need one anyhow. Me and 6 mates split the cost of a snap-on one and got it cheap by ordering thru another mate who is a mechanic and has a work account, than you can build up a collection of those funny big sockets too. Axle will be fine with done up plus a wee bit more, if your not sure post on the site. I'm positive you'll get help. Do use locktite too, you can feel the real tension as it goes on and gives some peace of mind knowing it should stay put without over tightening. My new bike doesn't have a castle nut or split pin but we break suspension bits on the trash cars a bit and I have gone to using bicycle spokes instead and bending the ends over, they rattle a bit but say put and a free from used bike rims. Unless the split pin falls out first I can't see any way that a loose nut could sheer the pin! A piece of fishing nylon in the hole (I'm not even suggesting this is ok as a split pin replacement) could foul your plans of taking the nut off so a loose nut sheering the pin? Doubt it, use a nut from a nut and bolt store, any reasonable steel, tell the staff what its for and you'll be right, replace the axle if the thread is poked. If somethings wrecked it a bit whats left probably is very strong either. Good luck and I hope no-ones out to get you, a paint pen to dab on those essential joins might alert you to tampering if thats the case?

[Horney1]

Will be sure to interegate with malice my so called classmates at the earliest convenience!

Yes indeed, will be sure to get a sizable quantity of split pins to avoid such scenarios in the future. Cheers for the advice.

By the way, if you have the time would you mind writing up a review of your KTM please?

Gidday vamr,

I did a quick review on another post titled KTM LC8 seizure. It was taken for 48 hours by the cops!!!!

Cheers

[Toaster]

dropping your nuts is never a good thing at the best of times... where was your split pin.. ya know the one that stops the nut from falling off it becomes loose?? ...Nut insurance if you like...

Little story about nuts... I was having a first crack at mountain biking in taupo last week. Being a jackass, I had to try a steep track in the bush. Came off coming downhill over a couple jumps, feet already off the pedals - hit the second jump and landed my nuts squarely on the spinning rear tyre, which continued to spin as I felt the chunky tyre treads thrash my precious parts. Hit my chest on the seat then on the tyre too, before I finally let go in defeat and landed down a bank in blackberries..... mmmm blackberries.

[Horney1]

Little story about nuts... I was having a first crack at mountain biking in taupo last week. Being a jackass, I had to try a steep track in the bush. Came off coming downhill over a couple jumps, feet already off the pedals - hit the second jump and landed my nuts squarely on the spinning rear tyre, which continued to spin as I felt the chunky tyre treads thrash my precious parts. Hit my chest on the seat then on the tyre too, before I finally let go in defeat and landed down a bank in blackberries..... mmmm blackberries.

Sounds like you might have been better off throwing the bike away mid-air Toaster! Have you bought a rear carrier yet?

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah, If your gonna shell out for a torque wrench get one that you trust the numbers on.


Agreed but... for a WHEEL NUT?

Naaaaaaa - seriously. Take it up to "light/medium ooomph" using a mid sized spanner. That's tight enough. A bit tighter if you need to line up the splin pin hole with the castellations on the nut and you're done.

Put it another way - when was the last time you saw a mechanic pull out the torque wrench for use on a wheel nut?

[Pancakes]

Yeah agreed, that post was for the types who don't seem to have a grip on how tight "tight enough" is and insist on measuring. I don't use the torque wench for wheel/axle nuts, you can feel when the metal has used some of it's spring. No pin on mine either. I do use a drop of loctite on the nut for that reason but would be amazed if one just "came loose".