Which Linux Distro?

[skelstar]

Been thinking about getting a HDD enclosure that can sit on a network and act as NAS, but was then looking at my very unused mini-itx board and though that I could stick a linux flavour on it...but which one?

Required Features:
* Network accessible HDD
* No DVD/CD drive sorry so no LiveCDs
* Boot off a flash memory drive (cheap, fast, low power)

Maybe Damn Small Linux? (had a play a few years back)

Other features that would be nice:
* Bittorrent Client (would have to be able to set individual upload speeds).

Ummm....can think of anything else. I guess if I have a Bittorrent client it may have to have a windows shell (KDE? can't remember the term) and be able to VNC into it.

[dhunt]

Been thinking about getting a HDD enclosure that can sit on a network and act as NAS, but was then looking at my very unused mini-itx board and though that I could stick a linux flavour on it...but which one?

Required Features:
* Network accessible HDD
* No DVD/CD drive sorry so no LiveCDs
* Boot off a flash memory drive (cheap, fast, low power)

Maybe Damn Small Linux? (had a play a few years back)

Other features that would be nice:
* Bittorrent Client (would have to be able to set individual upload speeds).

Ummm....can think of anything else. I guess if I have a Bittorrent client it may have to have a windows shell (KDE? can't remember the term) and be able to VNC into it.
Yip DSL is pretty good for small systems or if you want utimate control gentoo is the way to go no question about it (My favourite flavour).

Running a graphical interface seems like a bit of an overkill from what you've described to me. Just run ssh and possibly webmin if you want a nice gui interface (runs in webbrowser).

Hope this helps. Let me know if you want any sort of info

[skelstar]

Yeah, was thinking about just using SSH and not a GUI. Like the webmin idea though, might do a search.

[TerminalAddict]

dsl .. easy choice coz it works.

but installing debian on a cf or flash drive is pretty easy. (google: embeddian)

I've got freebsd (reason: funky 4 port network card with no linux kernel drivers) running on a 128mb flash DOM here, plugged into a VIA EPIA board .. its awesome

o_O btw: window maker has a memory foot print of less then 1mb ... good gui to use over the network ;)

[skelstar]

Hee hee, I have VIA EPIA board too. A 10000 Nehmia one.

[TerminalAddict]

make a fantastic firewall ;)

I've added a dlink 4 port server network card in it so I can do multipath routing and stuff (dmz, 2 wan links, 1 lan, 1 wlan) .. puts to shame the $2000 allied telesyn router it replaced :first:

[skelstar]

I have a wireless network and a case that is not conducive to PCI slots (I dont think).

Saw some friggin cheap Wifi dongles today (yeah yeah).

[ajturbo]

what i realy want to know is.... why wont MY puter START????

the lights are on but no-one home!!!... bit like the owner...

[TerminalAddict]

I have a wireless network and a case that is not conducive to PCI slots (I dont think).

Saw some friggin cheap Wifi dongles today (yeah yeah).

dunno what kind of case you've got it in .. but I email some dudes at asterisk (now owned by gen-i) who sent me a riser card for 1 pci card

[skelstar]

Oh yeah. Was gong to make a case. Want low profile...

Having trouble finding Embeddian. Found ARM based crowd called 'Embedian'. I dont know...maybe have a look tomorrow.

Maybe DSL is the go, hope its easy to configure. Freesco was another option.

[skelstar]

Ah, Freesco doesn't support USB. But I wonder how it can't if it boots from a USB drive :)

I reckon LBTW will be in this thread soon...

[James Deuce]

Debian Woody.

[skelstar]

So thats a full blown version of Debian J2?

Want it to run off a flash drive with very few reads/writes to the card too.

[James Deuce]

You can compile it any way you want.

I had a reverse proxy server in a low profile server chassis that used 3MB for the O/S. It was tight as a nut. Providing a reverse proxy solution for OWA and Citrix based apps and desktops running on Windows boxes too. BUt then I paid an expert to set it up for me.

You look like an expert.

[TerminalAddict]

you can install woody on to a flash drive .. .then mount / in a ram drive



gw-fx:~# cat /etc/debian_version
3.0
gw-fx:~# mount
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
tmpfs on / type tmpfs (rw)
proc on /proc type proc (rw)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw)
gw-fx:~# cat /etc/fstab
# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
tmpfs / tmpfs rw 0 0
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
gw-fx:~#


wr to save data .. or wr -a to save everything


gw-fx:~# cat /usr/local/sbin/wr
#!/bin/sh
# Vadim Berkgaut <berk@direct.ru> 2003
# Dumps changes in tmpfs to flash, Cisco style. Uses rsync
# to avoid excessive writing to flash.

while true ; do
case "$1" in
a|-a|all|-all|--all) WRITE_ALL='y';;
v|-v|verbose|-verbose|--verbose) WRITE_VERBOSE='v';;
av|va|-av|-va) WRITE_ALL='y' ; WRITE_VERBOSE='v';;
'') cd / ; break;;
*) echo "Usage: wr [a|all] [v|verbose]" ; exit 1;;
esac
shift
done

RSYNC="/usr/bin/rsync"
test -f $RSYNC || exit 1
RSYNC="$RSYNC -ax$WRITE_VERBOSE --delete --temp-dir=/tmp"

mount -t ext2 -o noatime /dev/hda2 /mnt || exit 1
$RSYNC --exclude="/etc/fstab" --exclude="/etc/motd" \
--exclude="/etc/ioctl.save" --exclude="/etc/mtab" \
--exclude="/etc/network/ifstate" \
/etc /mnt
for FILE in /root/.profile /root/.bashrc /root/.mc/ini ; do
DIR=`dirname /mnt$FILE`
test -e $FILE && { test -d $DIR || mkdir $DIR; } && \
$RSYNC $FILE /mnt$FILE || rm -f /mnt$FILE
done
echo "config saved"
if [ $WRITE_ALL ] ; then
$RSYNC \
--exclude="/lib/modules" --exclude="/usr/share/locale" \
/bin /lib /sbin /usr /home /mnt
$RSYNC --exclude="available*" \
/var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt /mnt/var/lib
echo "system saved"
fi
umount /mnt

[James Deuce]

Do you wear sandals and have a big bushy beard, TerminalAddict?

[TerminalAddict]

I have a massive e-penis .. is proof I tells ya ;)

[limbimtimwim]

Debian Woody is the old version. Debian Sarge is the current version.

Ubuntu as a server install is the way to go, I reckon.

I can lend you a USB cdrom drive to boot the install cdrom off to install it. Or you can hang a regular cdrom drive off it during the install and them remove it later.

Oh, this computer is going to have a hard drive in it, isn't it?

[James Deuce]

Woody is, but it has some neat limited install options. Never implemented a Sarge install, so I wouldn't know.

I don't have Sandals and you should grow your bug catcher back LBTW.

[TerminalAddict]

I like the fact that with ubuntu I can install stuff that is less than 12 million years old

debian annoys me the way it hold things for ever before putting them in stable

[dhunt]

what i realy want to know is.... why wont MY puter START????

the lights are on but no-one home!!!... bit like the owner...
ID ten T error probably :innocent:

Does anything come up on the screen, does it beep or make any funny noises,smoke etc. A bit hard to diagnosis it from what you've described.

[dhunt]

I like the fact that with ubuntu I can install stuff that is less than 12 million years old

debian annoys me the way it hold things for ever before putting them in stable
Yeah same but in my case I prefere something a bit more bleeding edge and run gentoo :rockon:

Another cool contraption I have is my wireless router running Openwrt linux. I can ssh into it and install more software etc. Very cool. I have yet to use the USB ports on it though.

[skelstar]

Another cool contraption I have is my wireless router running Openwrt linux. I can ssh into it and install more software etc. Very cool. I have yet to use the USB ports on it though.
This is a WRT54G? Was looking into doing one of these hacks but from what I can see I cant hook an IDE drive up to it.

Jim2 - I'm no expert. I'm not an expert at anything...I usually know enough to get myself interested about something and then lose interest before becoming an authority.

TermAd - Thats just scary looking man. I kinda know what it is but a tiny bit beyond me at the moment ;)

LBTW - Hmmm...I have a couple of power supply issues with running a CD-ROM drive at the moment. Tried booting off an UBUNTU CD a while back but it wanted to go all pretty and my board/CPU couldn't handle it very well. As I understand it the latest distro allows you to do a text-based install.

[dhunt]

This is a WRT54G? Was looking into doing one of these hacks but from what I can see I cant hook an IDE drive up to it.

I was looking at those but ended up with a ASUS WL-500g deluxe as it had more RAM,faster and had USB 2 ports :) So it ment I could at some stage hook up a USB 2 Hard drive or USB speakers etc. Lots of potential but I just haven't been bothered or needed to yet. Only thing I've done was getting rid of the asus branded linux and put openwrt on it.



LBTW - Hmmm...I have a couple of power supply issues with running a CD-ROM drive at the moment. Tried booting off an UBUNTU CD a while back but it wanted to go all pretty and my board/CPU couldn't handle it very well. As I understand it the latest distro allows you to do a text-based install.
You could always pull your hard disk and put it in another computer, do the install of what ever and move it back. Works quite well and would be easier/faster for you it sounds like.

[skelstar]

I was looking at those but ended up with a ASUS WL-500g deluxe as it had more RAM,faster and had USB 2 ports :) So it ment I could at some stage hook up a USB 2 Hard drive or USB speakers etc. Lots of potential but I just haven't been bothered or needed to yet. Only thing I've done was getting rid of the asus branded linux and put openwrt on it.
Cool. Would do that maybe but in reality it means I would still have to get a USB-HDD enclosure again for the USB adapter part.

Ouch ASUS WL-500G costs $170 :)

Stupid thing is that a NAS enclosure only costs $110. Vantec I think.



You could always pull your hard disk and put it in another computer, do the install of what ever and move it back. Works quite well and would be easier/faster for you it sounds like.
True. Hardware detect not needed at install eh? Should be able to install onto a flash drive and just move it over?

I also want the distro to run of the flash drive, but for it to avoid writing to it too much either....hence maybe avoiding Deb/Ubuntu full blown types. Maybe DSL is more quiet.

[dhunt]

True. Hardware detect not needed at install eh? Should be able to install onto a flash drive and just move it over?

I also want the distro to run of the flash drive, but for it to avoid writing to it too much either....hence maybe avoiding Deb/Ubuntu full blown types. Maybe DSL is more quiet.
Yip Linux doesn't pack a sad unlike windoze if you move to some new hardware.

You could run all your programs from a compressed ROM filesystem and then just the stuff you need to write from a R/W filesystem. That's how my wireless router does it.

I guess it depends how much time you want to spend and how much you want to learn to do an install. That's what I like about linux is theres so many ways to do things so I can do it my way.

[skelstar]

Yeah, that sounds good. I don't mind having a bit of a play. I got frustrated in the past with distros like Fedora when I was trying to get it to play AAC codec music, but Im thinking that this isn't near as tricky :).

Cheers for the help.

[limbimtimwim]

LBTW - Hmmm...I have a couple of power supply issues with running a CD-ROM drive at the moment. Tried booting off an UBUNTU CD a while back but it wanted to go all pretty and my board/CPU couldn't handle it very well. As I understand it the latest distro allows you to do a text-based install.Yep. Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long term support) Server doesn't even ask if you want a gui, it assumes a big fat 'no'. Which is the way it should be. Damnit.

[skelstar]

Yeah just reading about Ubuntu Server now. Might be the way to go. As I undertsand it downloading modules (?) is pretty damn easy.

Know of any text based bit torrent clients?

[TerminalAddict]

rtorrent - ncurses BitTorrent client based on LibTorrent

this from ubuntu server (with no gui ;) )

[skelstar]

Nice, might have to have a look.

[skelstar]

rtorrent looks cool. Just trying to work out if I can throttle the upload speed of each torrent individually ;)

[limbimtimwim]

Yeah just reading about Ubuntu Server now. Might be the way to go. As I undertsand it downloading modules (?) is pretty damn easy.'debs'? Yes. 'apt-get install firefox' and such like. Mind you, the other distros have kinda caught up in this regard too. Except SuSE, which sucks.

[badlieutenant]

Ive been playing with kubuntu and its preety sweet. Im a newb and wanted to stay away from getting to involved in sudo blah blah sh stuff. Not entirely possible but for an idiot like myself to have kde running stable as (running dual boot) is an achievement in my eyes. Or more so to the developers really. Haven't booted in windows in a while. Kde just looks good runs better and there is so much stuff to play with.
Installing more packages thru the adept package handler or doing it thru apt-get is a piece of piss. I just have to learn how to manage wine and stuff around with VMware and its bye bye windows.
Kbittorent is packaged (mint proggy) My brother has managed to VNC from windows 2000 to XP then to the Kbox, and it runs really well. My favourite is probably Amarok.
Haven't tried setting up a server yet (go ask mellon about that :)) but as for installing off a USB stick I'm pretty sure it can be done (or networked too) just google it. Some one somewhere has done it already and shows a how too.
The kde distro Im using is based on the edgy kernel 6.10, the drivers for the wireless card worked well, as compared to earlier versions, make sure your wireless is based on the atheros chipset, its well supported by madwifi.
A perspective from a linux newb :)

[skelstar]

Hmmmm starting to wonder if I should be using KDE anyway and VNC-ing into it instead.

[skelstar]

Anyone here running an X-windows client on Mac to talk to a Linux box?

[limbimtimwim]

Anyone here running an X-windows client on Mac to talk to a Linux box?No, but you'll need to enable xdmp queries in the gdm/kdm/xdm config.

Using X is kinda inferior to VNC because if you disconnect (Or get disconnected..) all the programs you were running get killed. The way VNC is generally set up is that the session you created keeps ticking.

Oh this has nothing to do with motorcycles, so I'll bring it back:

Honda honda honda honda

[skelstar]

Oh this has nothing to do with motorcycles, so I'll bring it back:

Honda honda honda honda
Thats a good point (VNC).

Pity you can't bring everything back to a Honda eh LBTW?

[TerminalAddict]

no x-window from my mac mate .. sorry.

if it can't be done in a terminal I generally think its not worth doing :nya:

.
.
.
.
did someone say honda <_<

[limbimtimwim]

no x-window from my mac mate .. What? You can't run X11 apps over ssh -X forwarding? There is no 'xnest -query'?

I cry a thousand tears...

Anyway Skelstar, don't you just want one of these: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117443716237743525-AC8bUe8X978hZmC7A85mAccsld8_20080320.html

[skelstar]

Expensive when I already have the hardware. A $100 NAS enclosure will do the job too...

[badlieutenant]

What? You can't run X11 apps over ssh -X forwarding? There is no 'xnest -query'?

I cry a thousand tears...

Anyway Skelstar, don't you just want one of these: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117443716237743525-AC8bUe8X978hZmC7A85mAccsld8_20080320.html

my bro has set up mythtv on his old athlon to the tv does all of this and more. you can download programs so your ph can controll it via infrared if you want :)
thing Im finding is in linux is that if its a good idea someone has already done it.


honda honda honda ? you must be looking at all the bits of mine in the garge

[scracha]

Expensive when I already have the hardware. A $100 NAS enclosure will do the job too...

Yeah, but you really want a $1500 enclosure to do the job properly....not that I'm biased or anything.

[scracha]

Ive been playing with kubuntu and its preety sweet. Im a newb and wanted to stay away from getting to involved in sudo blah blah sh stuff. Not entirely possible but for an idiot like myself to have kde

The trouble with most linux distro's is when it all goes Pete Tong. There's no easy "repair CD" or "roll back" feature to get you out of trouble.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but it's still not nuBe friendly enough to be on most desktops IMHO. Almost...but not quite.

As for cheaper enclosures....my vote would be for the Thecus N2100 as it has RAID1. I'm trying to bypass the official importer on these puppies as their trade price is a shocker.

You honestly don't want anything less than RAID1 if you're going to stick it in a corner and forget about it (unless you're gonna piss about with backups or have another box to rsync to).

FreeNAS is a pile of $hit. Believe me I tried it.

[smoky]

are you the guys the running the planet, like on the movie Matrix
I was talking to some mormons who said there's a Secrete society that rule the world and use computers and have chips they put in our (planet fillers) brains to make us do what they want.
Or have i fallen out of a blip in the matrix of kiwibiker into your under world.



I only read it because I saw the word 'woody' and thought there might be something that got you all excited... but i can't find it.

[limbimtimwim]

The trouble with most linux distro's is when it all goes Pete Tong. There's no easy "repair CD" or "roll back" feature to get you out of trouble. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but it's still not nuBe friendly enough to be on most desktops IMHO. Almost...but not quite.I've found if you use it as designed, it won't crap out. For example Debian (And therefor Debian based distros like Ubuntu) make sure everything you put on it works together. You shouldn't be able to mess it up using their software packages and their configurators. Start editing important things in /etc and installing your own stuff could break it. Of course, I do that all the time, but I'm old hat at it..

One suggestion I make to people is that they put /home on a seperate partition (Well, logical volume these days) so if they ruin the OS, they can just reinstall from scratch and make sure they don't reformat /home. Then they don't loose any data. You can install Ubuntu or Debian in about 30 minutes and be back on your feet again quick.
You honestly don't want anything less than RAID1 if you're going to stick it in a corner and forget about it (unless you're gonna piss about with backups or have another box to rsync to).Come on man, we are on a budget here. 100% redundant disks is expensive. Mind you, when I was at uni I kept my work on raid1.

[TerminalAddict]

raid1 is not a replacement for backups :no:

[scracha]

raid1 is not a replacement for backups :no:
Shrrup Terminal, I'm trying to punt my wares. No, seriously.....
In the real world you'll find most home users just don't do regular backups and that's one reason I'm saying I'd go for at least raid1. People also get very dependant on their NAS and stick EVERYTHING on it. Lose the NAS data and there's some very p!ssed off bunnies.

Both the Thecus and the ReadyNAS have excellent automated backups and support external USB drives though. The ReadyNAS also supports Rsync, Ftp, has multiple "roll back" and comes with good Mac and PC backup software. However, it's WAY more expensive.

Qnap do an even cheaper "enclosure" (I hate that word, it implies a cheapo USB or firewire enclosure) but after 2 international calls and an email I gave up trying to get a hold of them.

One other suggestion is to have the cheapo linux NAS and then stick a USB, firewire or preferably eSATA drive in it from time to time for backups. Still a PITA though.

[TerminalAddict]

depends on the data I guess

I've got combinations here
Some servers have raid5 etc etc .. with "OK" backups
Some servers have raid 1 with exceptional backups
Some servers have a single disk manually mirrored on to an external USB drive (this quite a good cheap options, you can't keep incrementals, but recovery is very fast .. chuck backup drive in another machine, then boot)

what I really want is (if you can sell it to me) is real time replication on a filesystem (or even a block) level, across 2 NAS boxes .. spanning raid across 2 devices won't work due to file locking (actually row level locking and table locking)

[limbimtimwim]

what I really want is (if you can sell it to me) is real time replication on a filesystem (or even a block) level, across 2 NAS boxes .. spanning raid across 2 devices won't work due to file locking (actually row level locking and table locking)You want a netapp ( www.netapp.com ) mate. Got one here, it's brilliant.

[TerminalAddict]

looking at those ;)

[scracha]

what I really want is (if you can sell it to me) is real time replication on a filesystem (or even a block) level, across 2 NAS boxes .. spanning raid across 2 devices won't work due to file locking (actually row level locking and table locking)

Best it can do is continuous rsync of NAS "snapshot". Obviously the first one would take a wee while but thereafter it would be fast. The rackmounted 1100 would be better for this. Two of them can fit in a 1U rack (back to back) and as they have dual gigabit ethernet one port could be dedicated to the rsync backup. If the master unit fails it's just a case of chaging the IP address of the failed units (and if using user mode security the user and group ID's should be matched). The ReadyNAS will create locks on the incomplete rsync job so that two won't run concurrently.

Would this be good enough?

[skelstar]

Well I finally scored a crappy laptop (cheers W) and have installed Ubuntu (6.06 LTS). Runs a tiny bit slow on a 2.2GHz Celeron (don't know how much RAM) but it runs pretty well.

Have got Internet working fine (piss easy) but am struggling to get a Samba share working on the network (connecting to it with Macs). Pretty sure that Samba is intalled on the machine but am steadily getting confused :). Will struggle on.

Yay...no more f**king Windows!!! (until I go back to work on Monday anyways)...

<img src="http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/ubuntu.jpg">