Gixxer K7 totalled (frame snapped in 1/2)

[orangeback]

link to it
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132476&page=10

the low down on it

21 year old bought bike. got checked out by service guys, said he rode dirt bikes. reved bike up several times. let loose of clutch and handful of throttle. made it about 50 feet, right into concrete wall. didnt have helmet strapped, it flew off. guy not hurt... poor bike. frame snapped at welds.. didnt look like weld didnt bond, but you can clearly see where 2 parts put together and impact broke it right in 1/2. 1/2 weld on each side of frame. im sure this is not frame issue. nothing was built to go head on into concrete wall. Is this the first totaled one??? possibly... it was ugly.. pics tomorrow. happend at 6:00 as we were shutting down shop. No insurance. Guy asked what do i do know? i asked if he had insurance. he said no he was going to get it monday. I said well you owe 12k for totaled bike... there suppose to look up parts in morning if fiche is even out yet, tho im sure parts are not available and this guy prolly cant pay cash to fix it. New riders are scarey!!! why do they think they need the newest fastest stuff out? Ill post pics tomorrow sometime.

[Ixion]

.. didnt have helmet strapped, it flew off. guy not hurt... ,,.

Pity. Still polluting the gene pool. They need Gene-O-Kleen : evolution you can see.

[Madness]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ixion again.

You're on fire tonight.

[Macktheknife]

Pity. Still polluting the gene pool. They need Geno-O-Kleen : evolution you can see.

Or perhaps just a visit from the 'specialist'.
see my avatar, bling sent Ixion, love your work.

[orangeback]

fo those that arnt hocked up with gixxer.com
the pict

[orangeback]

and moore .................................................. ..................

[kickingzebra]

so we are pushing shit uphill to even see one of these, let alone get one to begin race prep, and your guys retard kids are crashing them straight outta rhe box??
damn stupid boy... i could do with a shiney thou to race when summer comes again

[limbimtimwim]

I've seen one. It was the same crap yellow colour set.

Didn't look like the whale everyone has been moaning about. But yes, the silencing system is quite large.

[avgas]

I ride trail bikes - they're 100+hp arent they????
HA

[Devil]

There was one outside holeshot last night in Black. Mufflers didn't look too bad, but Strouds Yoshi's on his K7 look pretty cool (and sound pretty good too!)

[Fatjim]

I've never met a welder who'd admit his weld wasn't stronger than the material he's welding. That looks a pretty clean break along the weld point.
Having said that, I'd say, (from a position of no experience whatsoever) that the design is wrong, not the weld.

[Paulus]

I've never met a welder who'd admit his weld wasn't stronger than the material he's welding. That looks a pretty clean break along the weld point.
Having said that, I'd say, (from a position of no experience whatsoever) that the design is wrong, not the weld.

No. The weld and the areas round it are the weakest points. Looks like maybe the weld didn't penetrate properly but it would have been a heck of an impact and something has to give.

[Freakshow]

No surprises its a Suzuki!

[Madness]

Looks more like a PVA glue joint than TIG welded aluminium.

[ManDownUnder]

No surprises its a Suzuki!
True - you know their tag line

"Suzuki - too much power for the average shmoe"

[CM2005]

i'll give him fifty bucks for it! and put the motor in a dirt bike!

[Jimmy B]

Stupid question but did this guy even have a license?

[ManDownUnder]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one - but I thought the weld IS plenty strong (due to the total cross section of the weld metal involved - taken from the bottom of the penetration to the top of the built up material) and it's the heat affected zone either side that you need to be careful of.

If that's the case - the weld could be expected to let go along one (or other) side of the weld, not down the middle like that. I'm willing to bet that was poor penetration in the weld.

Combine that with a tearing force likely applied... and the weld would have been ripped open - like opening a zipper, from the top down, or possible a simple sheer although I'd be surprise if the whole thing sheered off like that.

Either way... hitting the wall is what did it... maybe if he's avoided it things would have been a little better?

Are there are close up pics of the weld itself?

[Freakshow]

Maybe it is a new design feature that all the welds are saraficial and fall apart to absorb crash impacts as it is becoming so frequent.

[The_Dover]

fuck man, that must mean that these k7's are even more fragile than the k6's that just fell apart as you ride down the street.

what a heap of shit.. he should have bought a honda.

[bugjuice]

this was the complaint of the K5/6s if I remember right.

And what upset peeps seem to forget, is that the bike is designed to handle and be strong in cornering and accelerating etc.. not crashing..
don't wanna break it? don't crash. Learn how to fukin ride properly for one!!

no digs, dover, btw.. :niceone:

[The_Dover]

this was the complaint of the K5/6s if I remember right.

And what upset peeps seem to forget, is that the bike is designed to handle and be strong in cornering and accelerating etc.. not crashing..
don't wanna break it? don't crash. Learn how to fukin ride properly for one!!

no digs, dover, btw.. :niceone:

none of my frames snapped.

every other fucking part did though.

[bugjuice]

lol.. then you could have buddied up with someone who did, and have at least a half decent bike then..

[The Stranger]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one - but I thought the weld IS plenty strong (due to the total cross section of the weld metal involved - taken from the bottom of the penetration to the top of the built up material) and it's the heat affected zone either side that you need to be careful of.

If that's the case - the weld could be expected to let go along one (or other) side of the weld, not down the middle like that. I'm willing to bet that was poor penetration in the weld.

Combine that with a tearing force likely applied... and the weld would have been ripped open - like opening a zipper, from the top down, or possible a simple sheer although I'd be surprise if the whole thing sheered off like that.

Either way... hitting the wall is what did it... maybe if he's avoided it things would have been a little better?

Are there are close up pics of the weld itself?

Would be real interested to hear from someone with experience in this area. I know from my daze of arc welding steel and destructive testing I have never seen a weld break like that. But obviously different materials and processes.

[ManDownUnder]

none of my frames snapped.

every other fucking part did though.

you broke your dick????

[Ixion]

Nah , she broke her cunt. hasn't Dover told you about "his" little op ?

[The_Dover]

you broke your dick????

actually, in the first one I really thought I'd broken my balls.

they were black and the size of grapefruit for about a week.

[ManDownUnder]

actually, in the first one I really thought I'd broken my balls.

they were black and the size of grapefruit for about a week.

...thanks for kickstarting my weight loss regime

[Masterchop]

I think it is the Suzuki designed crumple zone.

[Rizla]

The frame snapped in two on mine. But it was a pretty hard impact.

[Masterchop]

The frame snapped in two on mine. But it was a pretty hard impact.

Looks like the crash knobs worked.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

back on topic....
what country did this happen in?

[Fooman]

If that's the case - the weld could be expected to let go along one (or other) side of the weld, not down the middle like that. I'm willing to bet that was poor penetration in the weld.

My two-penneth worth:

The position at the center of the deposited weld metal would suggest some sort of discontinuity or segregation along there. As mentioned previously, weld metal is generally stronger than the surrounding parent metal, generally due to a higher alloy spec and a refined grain structure due to the high rate of cooling after welding (it is essentially a cast metal and the parent metal acts a a big chill during solidification). The weak points in a good weld are generally the fusion line or the heat affected zone of the parent metal.

As a weld is a casting, it can be affected as per normal castings; with shrinkage porosity, gas porosity, slag inclusions and segregation (changing alloy composition due to concentration effects during solidification).

If the QC checks are any good, bad welds would not get through - e.g. poor geometry (undercuts, lack of fusion, lack of penetration) and if they do UT checks, that would pick up slag and porosity. But centerline segregation is hard to pick up without destructive testing.

What such segregation does is it reduces the strength somewhat, but it also reduces the ductility and toughness of the material, reducing the ability to absorb impact damage - it will crack rather than plastically deform. The centerline of the weld is the most likely place for segregation (last place to solidify, and it generally has the coarsest grains (weakest and least ductile part of the weld).

In my experience, cracks due to lack of fusion/lack of penetration tend to travel up the "fusion" line, rather than the centerline. What would be interesting is to see if there was any deformation of the weld and HAZ before fracture - this would indication a lack of ductility at the centerline.

Anyway, that is why I think the weld cracked up the middle rather than the side. The root cause of the failure anyway was GSXR meeting wall at some rate of knots.

Cheers,
FM

[Jimmy B]

Seesh FM, never let it be said that you dont know your welds mate :yes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

The frame snapped in two on mine. But it was a pretty hard impact.

holy shit!!

at least your crash bung looks perfect.... apart from the bent bolt. I hope you walked away clean?

[ManDownUnder]

Is a centerline failure cause for general concern? I.e. - if it happened on this bike it could have happened on others.

But then - is that tempered by the fact the fault will only become obvious when run into brick walls (i.e. it's not really a problem after all)

?

[Freakshow]

The frame snapped in two on mine. But it was a pretty hard impact.

Those crash bungs did a great job wher can i get some. :gob:

[Rizla]

Dont remember much. Blacked out when I hit the car. Driver reckons he saw me fly threw the air and literally bounce off the tarmak. A torn shoulder muscle was all I got. Was very lucky.


holy shit!!

at least your crash bung looks perfect.... apart from the bent bolt. I hope you walked away clean?

[HenryDorsetCase]

lucky man.


back on topic, surely this is a warranty claim, under the JRA clause?

Dear Mr Suzuki

I was Just Riding Along, when I had to suddenly stop. The frame on my new K7 Gixxer Thou cracked, as per the photographs attached.

I believe this is a manufacturing fault, and I will be pleased to receive a new GSXR1000 at your early convenience.

Thank you for your prompt attention


JRA guy.

[Fooman]

Is a centerline failure cause for general concern? I.e. - if it happened on this bike it could have happened on others.

But then - is that tempered by the fact the fault will only become obvious when run into brick walls (i.e. it's not really a problem after all)

?

It's hard to say - depends on what the design/specification requirements for the frame was (e.g. has to absorb an impact of xx joules without fracture). Cars have standards that they have to meet in terms of energy absorption - don't know if bikes have similar standards, but i doubt it.

The fact that the weld fractured along the centerline could mean that the fusion line and HAZ are in fact a lot stronger than they usually are - perhaps due to better than normal welding procedure. I think your last statement would be highly accurate!

Cheers,
FM

[avgas]

Should be a recall - Why arent suzuki honest about it.
Triumph did.

[Drunken Monkey]

Should be a recall - Why arent suzuki honest about it.
Triumph did.

WTF?

Did you even read the thread?

[avgas]

WTF?
Did you even read the thread?
No of course not.....thats just silly. (pt)
I saying that frames shouldn't brake that badly on a seam. When the triumph 1's did (after poms complained about hitting walls and fucking their bike :nono: ) they recalled and got the frame strengthened.
He only made it 50 meters......how fast can ya go in 50m? what speed/impact was the frame suppose to take.

[The Stranger]

He only made it 50 meters......how fast can ya go in 50m? .

Mate, it's a GSXR, not an RSVR, say 150kph

[avgas]

Mate, it's a GSXR, not an RSVR, say 150kph

Wow....
You guys must be really quick.
Your bike must also be fast.

[Pwalo]

I guess the answer is not to be a twat and ride your brand new Gixxer into a wall WFO.

Seems quite simple really.

[JayRacer37]

Well, hang on all you guys that are going on about weak weld points - remember the Japanese have been playing with optimum frame flex over the past 15 years..where is the best place to engineneer this controled flex in?? Its very easy to change and control the constancy of a weld, this makes it a perfect place to do that surely??
And yea, it may make that weld in particlular weaker than the rest on the frame, but if it is designed to act as the 'hinge' then it would right??
Also, it would be unlikely the frame would snap behind the foward engine mounts, as it has the motor acting as a stressed member holding it together down to the rear mounts and swingarm pivot.

[SPman]

none of my frames snapped.

every other fucking part did though.

Even the plug spanner..........:gob:

[Toaster]

Suzuki's breaking huh??? I'll expect mine to collapse under it's own weight then.

[ManDownUnder]

where is the best place to engineneer this controled flex in?? Its very easy to change and control the constancy of a weld, this makes it a perfect place to do that surely??


Na, too many variables in a weld to accurately determine its elastic behaviour afterwards. I may be wrong, and I know the welding gear these days is GOOD... but I'd expect anything contributing to flex to be a longer member of the frame, cast/built with specific forms to add/control resistance to movement.

Flex on a joint is a "local". If riveted it works because the shaft of the rivet provide a point of rotation, albeit for incredible minor movement. A weld does not... at all (what was the class of ship in WWII that kept snaping after they introduced welded hulls in place of the riveted ones)?

That's where they learned that lesson.

To me the fact it snapped there says a couple of things
1) For the type of impact suffered, that weld was clearly the weakest point
2) the linear failure... down the middle of the weld, is unusual (to my eye anyway) and goes against what I learned of a weld being stronger than the bits it was attaching.

Perhaps it's a built in point of failure that prevents something more sinister happening? Who knows? I'd be surprised if that was the case. To me it looks like bog all penetration or (as someone else suggested) a boundary fusion issue caused by incompatible alloys refusing to fuse.

[FilthyLuka]

hmm... i wonder if you could just pull a dodgy and fix0r it with some grinding and new welds....

ill give you $50 bucks for it :yes:

[JayRacer37]

Na, too many variables in a weld to accurately determine its elastic behaviour afterwards. I may be wrong, and I know the welding gear these days is GOOD... but I'd expect anything contributing to flex to be a longer member of the frame, cast/built with specific forms to add/control resistance to movement.

Flex on a joint is a "local". If riveted it works because the shaft of the rivet provide a point of rotation, albeit for incredible minor movement. A weld does not... at all (what was the class of ship in WWII that kept snaping after they introduced welded hulls in place of the riveted ones)?

That's where they learned that lesson.

To me the fact it snapped there says a couple of things
1) For the type of impact suffered, that weld was clearly the weakest point
2) the linear failure... down the middle of the weld, is unusual (to my eye anyway) and goes against what I learned of a weld being stronger than the bits it was attaching.

Perhaps it's a built in point of failure that prevents something more sinister happening? Who knows? I'd be surprised if that was the case. To me it looks like bog all penetration or (as someone else suggested) a boundary fusion issue caused by incompatible alloys refusing to fuse.

Well happy to be shot down by an argument as solid as that one :D.
Perhaps Suzuki are just looking for places to save more and more weight...as you'd expect. :rockon:

[Grub]

I'd be very interested to see a qualified forensic analysis of that weld, it just doesn't look right

[The Pastor]

maybe they are using some kind on new light weight metal that doesnt change when it gets welded or somthing like that? That could explain it, but from those pictures, im not buying a zuki untill i feel they can actually stay together.

[The_Dover]

maybe they are using some kind on new light weight metal that doesnt change when it gets welded or somthing like that? That could explain it, but from those pictures, im not buying a zuki untill i feel they can actually stay together.

yeah, by the time they suss out the durability you might have saved enough for a GN

[The Pastor]

yeah, by the time they suss out the durability you might have saved enough for a GN

so true :(

[Fooman]

Well, hang on all you guys that are going on about weak weld points - remember the Japanese have been playing with optimum frame flex over the past 15 years..where is the best place to engineneer this controled flex in?? Its very easy to change and control the constancy of a weld, this makes it a perfect place to do that surely??
And yea, it may make that weld in particlular weaker than the rest on the frame, but if it is designed to act as the 'hinge' then it would right??
Also, it would be unlikely the frame would snap behind the foward engine mounts, as it has the motor acting as a stressed member holding it together down to the rear mounts and swingarm pivot.


Welds are generally stiffer than the surrounding component, as they have more material, unless they have been ground flush. I've seen many an example where a weld has acted as a stiffener in a fabricated component. Pressure vessels are a good example. Nozzles in the pressure shell have to reinforced, both for strength and stiffness, if they are above a certain size. Such reinforcement can be from a welded collar, or even just a weld itself.

The motorcycle designers would engineer stiffness via the material and/or geometry of the frame and frame cross section - they would not play about with the welds - too variable.

Cheers,
FM

[Fooman]

Na, too many variables in a weld to accurately determine its elastic behaviour afterwards. I may be wrong, and I know the welding gear these days is GOOD... but I'd expect anything contributing to flex to be a longer member of the frame, cast/built with specific forms to add/control resistance to movement.

Flex on a joint is a "local". If riveted it works because the shaft of the rivet provide a point of rotation, albeit for incredible minor movement. A weld does not... at all (what was the class of ship in WWII that kept snaping after they introduced welded hulls in place of the riveted ones)?

That's where they learned that lesson.

To me the fact it snapped there says a couple of things
1) For the type of impact suffered, that weld was clearly the weakest point
2) the linear failure... down the middle of the weld, is unusual (to my eye anyway) and goes against what I learned of a weld being stronger than the bits it was attaching.

Perhaps it's a built in point of failure that prevents something more sinister happening? Who knows? I'd be surprised if that was the case. To me it looks like bog all penetration or (as someone else suggested) a boundary fusion issue caused by incompatible alloys refusing to fuse.

It's actually pretty easy to predict the elastic behaviour of a (good) weld - the modulus of the deposited weld metal doesn't change, and the geometry of the weld is fairly predictable, especially for automated and semi-automated welding

The Liberty ship failure (for it were they that snapped) wasn't about rigidity, but the toughness of the steel used to fabricate the hull - once the temperature got below a certain point (co-incidentally the same as the water temperature in the North Atlantic in winter), they became quite brittle. The fact that the ships were of welded construction meant that there was no edges to arrest the crack which formed from (minor) loading (literally - they cracked whilst been loaded at dock!) in the embrittled condition. A (properly) riveted join is not flexible at all, but the fact that there is a physical end to the material (the edge of the sheet) prevents crack propagation past a certain point.

This is why toughness/impact energy/K1C/ transition temperatures of a metal is an important factor in welded design/construction.

Cheers,
FM

[ManDownUnder]

It's actually pretty easy to predict the elastic behaviour of a (good) weld - the modulus of the deposited weld metal doesn't change, and the geometry of the weld is fairly predictable, especially for automated and semi-automated welding

The Liberty ship failure (for it were they that snapped) wasn't about rigidity, but the toughness of the steel used to fabricate the hull - once the temperature got below a certain point (co-incidentally the same as the water temperature in the North Atlantic in winter), they became quite brittle. The fact that the ships were of welded construction meant that there was no edges to arrest the crack which formed from (minor) loading (literally - they cracked whilst been loaded at dock!) in the embrittled condition. A (properly) riveted join is not flexible at all, but the fact that there is a physical end to the material (the edge of the sheet) prevents crack propagation past a certain point.

This is why toughness/impact energy/K1C/ transition temperatures of a metal is an important factor in welded design/construction.

Cheers,
FM


Cheers. A full (and quite interesting) writeup is here (http://shippai.jst.go.jp/en/Detail?fn=0&id=CB1011020&). I might have a rummage around that site... it may have some interesting potential.

MDU

[orangeback]

they arn't lasting long

[limbimtimwim]

what is the story behind that one?

[Sanx]

fo those that arnt hocked up with gixxer.com
the pict

That'll buff out.

[megageoff76]

Guess they just dont build them like they did in the old days...
Gimme Old Skool GSXR anyday.

[kiwifruit]

Guess they just dont build them like they did in the old days...
Gimme Old Skool GSXR anyday.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=50784

[skidMark]

i thought colemans had one that got written off a demo one or something?

[vagrant]

talking of Dum Kids and Suzukis, at least he's not trying to sue you!

Years back, at a Suzuki dealers I was associated with, kid comes in, wants to buy a new RGV250.
We know the kid, he's a rich idiot, can't stop crashing the flash cars daddy buys for him, so the Boss says "no, you will kill yourself". The kid runs home to Daddy, who is a town bigwig (and complete tosser)
Dad comes down, furious that we won't sell the kid the bike, makes all sorts of threats about building codes and zoning type shit, and still gets told "no".
So they drive over the hill, and Dad buys a shiney new RGV from another shop.
Can you see where this is going?
He made it about 45k, and spent the next couple of months in Burwood.

Heres the kicker, Dad wanted to sue the Bike shop that sold the RGV because they sold a dangerous machine to someone who was not experienced enough to ride it.:gob: WTF
Thankfully he could not find a lawyer dum enough to try it.

The prick tried to ban bikes from town, and had the motorcycle parking spaces removed.

[Bonez]

Obviously a design fault. Now if they got rid of the namby pamby alloy frame this outcome may have been a bit different.....Nothing like cold hard steel to stick it it up them .................

[orangeback]

another from another site
Roeblig Road turn 9 claimed this unlucky bike thankfully the rider was unhurt and actually took it pretty well

[RiderInBlack]

Man Claims Motorcycle Broke In Half (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9314629/detail.html). Bit scary. What is being done about it?

[imdying]

Bit scary. What is being done about it?Presumably nothing... one assumes that most people who claim 'it just broke' are liars with interests in getting their insurance paid out after riding like a twat, or want their crash blamed on something other than themselves in some sort of misguided attempt not to lose face.

[steveb64]

talking of Dum Kids and Suzukis, at least he's not trying to sue you!

Years back, at a Suzuki dealers I was associated with, kid comes in, wants to buy a new RGV250.
We know the kid, he's a rich idiot, can't stop crashing the flash cars daddy buys for him, so the Boss says "no, you will kill yourself". The kid runs home to Daddy, who is a town bigwig (and complete tosser)
Dad comes down, furious that we won't sell the kid the bike, makes all sorts of threats about building codes and zoning type shit, and still gets told "no".
So they drive over the hill, and Dad buys a shiney new RGV from another shop.
Can you see where this is going?
He made it about 45k, and spent the next couple of months in Burwood.

Heres the kicker, Dad wanted to sue the Bike shop that sold the RGV because they sold a dangerous machine to someone who was not experienced enough to ride it.:gob: WTF
Thankfully he could not find a lawyer dum enough to try it.

The prick tried to ban bikes from town, and had the motorcycle parking spaces removed.

BWAAHHAAAHAAA Evolution in Action. Hopefully, that gene line has stopped...

Mind you - reminds me of another story - from even further back, when RD350's (the air cooled ones) first came out - the guys at Whites in Auckland were selling them - and some guys wern't even making the end of the road before they smacked into something. Even one case (similar to start of thread) where the guy got on, nailed it, and smashed into the shop on the other side of the road. IIRC every one they sold came back within the first month or so of purchase - for crash repairs...

[Mr Merde]

BWAAHHAAAHAAA Evolution in Action. Hopefully, that gene line has stopped...

Mind you - reminds me of another story - from even further back, when RD350's (the air cooled ones) first came out - the guys at Whites in Auckland were selling them - and some guys wern't even making the end of the road before they smacked into something. Even one case (similar to start of thread) where the guy got on, nailed it, and smashed into the shop on the other side of the road. IIRC every one they sold came back within the first month or so of purchase - for crash repairs...

I was one of those who bought the RD350 from WHites.

Had my little turn when acelerating one day and the engine wouldnt stop.

Went through a stop sign at full tit as I didnt know what to do in this case. Newbie rider.

Turns out that the RD had a problem with the carb slides twisting when on full throttle and locking full open.

took a little bit of shaping and this was cured.

[merv]

This link shows it all rather graphically http://www.bikerenews.com/Stories/Article_011507_001.html

I was imagining they'd be breaking right up at the steering head but no they break right back by the engine which could explain a petrol tank and the front end parting company from the rest of the bike. Don't Suzuki have finite analysis designers and don't they know about the fatigue life of aluminium with its lack of fatigue limit?

[imdying]

Don't Suzuki have finite analysis designers and don't they know about the fatigue life of aluminium with its lack of fatigue limit?Not only that, but they have things like Cray super computers to run it on. That's what makes it an unlikely event. Of course, a program is only as good as its code, or the parameters entered into it...

[crshbndct]

uhh... this seems to be more than just a failure on impact problem....

[crshbndct]

just did a google for suzuki frame failure and got a bunch of links to various gsxr's that have just snapped in half when going over potholes, speedbumps etc.

searching the same thin for kawa, yamaha, and honda does not give any such results

[imdying]

It's on the Internets, it must be true!

[steveb64]

It's on the Internets, it must be true!

It better be! If it isn't, they'll likely get their asses sued...

AFAIK, libel laws apply equally to the internet as to printed or video/TV mediums. Even emails...

[HenryDorsetCase]

It better be! If it isn't, they'll likely get their asses sued...

AFAIK, libel laws apply equally to the internet as to printed or video/TV mediums. Even emails...


Email wouldnt meet the definition of defamation unless it was subsequently published.

[steveb64]

Email wouldnt meet the definition of defamation unless it was subsequently published.

I'm no lawyer, but my understanding of it is that by fact of it being transmitted on a public medium (the internet), it is then regarded as having been published.

I think there were some cases where emails were pulled off servers somewhere to prove it... That's the problem with email - it aint secure - and copies of it get left all over the place... ...like every server it goes through...

[shafty]

Being a Honda rider I'm not qualified to comment on product failure, but would these frame failures be exacerbated by multiple wheel standing and the pressure placed on the frame as the wheel hits the deck? My 2 yen

[merv]

Being a Honda rider I'm not qualified to comment on product failure, but would these frame failures be exacerbated by multiple wheel standing and the pressure placed on the frame as the wheel hits the deck? My 2 yen

The answer is obviously yes, but then because aluminium does not have a fatigue limit any load applied or bump hit puts stresses in the frame that all add up to using up the fatigue life of the frame. The larger the stresses applied the quicker it will fail - simple as that. Just like aircraft airframes any aluminium stressed component has a finite life and they forever crack test and maintain those so they don't fall out the sky - often.

If this is true about the Suzuki frames it would seem they have stuffed up their design assumptions and not made the frame as strong and fatigue resistant as it should be.

[imdying]

Being a Honda rider I'm not qualified to comment on product failure, but would these frame failures be exacerbated by multiple wheel standing and the pressure placed on the frame as the wheel hits the deck? My 2 yenYes, especially if the rider isn't very good at them. They're a finely tuned race (effectively) bike, not an early 90's tank :no: People want super duper light weight, every year smaller and lighter... of course the margin of abuse that they'll take will reduce.

/edit: People will be all like moan moan it should be able to take it, but of course, it can... for a while, just how much abuse should the bike be able to take? 10 cack handed wheelies? 50? 500? They're bikes for pro riders, and should be treated as such.

[merv]

Boeing are building the 787 with a carbon fibre fuselage. John Britten was onto something as fatigue isn't the same issue as it is with aluminium - however remember even John f....d up and his early forks collapsed under test at Ruapuna - basically a strength issue.

[GSVR]

Boeing are building the 787 with a carbon fibre fuselage. John Britten was onto something as fatigue isn't the same issue as it is with aluminium - however remember even John f....d up and his early forks collapsed under test at Ruapuna - basically a strength issue.

Very bad as carbon fibre puts some very nasty stuff into the air when it burns. And as we know planes invariably catch fire when they crash.

Can't be alot of fun going fast on a Gixxer these days worrying if its going to fall in half.

[Kendog]

Very bad as carbon fibre puts some very nasty stuff into the air when it burns. And as we know planes invariably catch fire when they crash.

Can't be alot of fun going fast on a Gixxer these days worrying if its going to fall in half.

Fortunately I don't ride fast, so should be ok.

[Paulus]

It better be! If it isn't, they'll likely get their asses sued...

AFAIK, libel laws apply equally to the internet as to printed or video/TV mediums. Even emails...

If it is true then the manufacturer should be the one worried about law suits and not just for libel - especially if anyone has been killed. Go through this forum carefully and you'll find every product from every manufacturer has been slandered at some point (and if you think that's bad try going to a bicycle forum). If something is wrong then they should be looking into it and doing something about it (recall) not suing people (unless they want to go bankrupt extremely quickly).

[Paulus]

Yes, especially if the rider isn't very good at them. They're a finely tuned race (effectively) bike, not an early 90's tank :no: People want super duper light weight, every year smaller and lighter... of course the margin of abuse that they'll take will reduce.

/edit: People will be all like moan moan it should be able to take it, but of course, it can... for a while, just how much abuse should the bike be able to take? 10 cack handed wheelies? 50? 500? They're bikes for pro riders, and should be treated as such.

The worry is that if some are failing now what will the rest be like in 2-3 years time when they get to a similar point in their fatigue life (through less abusive owners)? I tend to buy a bike to keep for 5 years or so and I'm sure many others do the same.

[imdying]

The worry is that if some are failing now what will the rest be like in 2-3 years time when they get to a similar point in their fatigue life (through less abusive owners)? I tend to buy a bike to keep for 5 years or so and I'm sure many others do the same.You make an excellent point :yes: Some people reckon Japanese bikes are 'disposable', perhaps they ain't seen nothing yet!

[merv]

Hey there I was down in ChCh in the weekend kind of checking out the bike shops and I stopped and had a good look at the Gixxer 1000 the Suzuki dudes had in the showroom on Manchester Street.

Now has this got anything to do with the problem? The latest model frame has a complete welded connection on both sides right where they are said to be breaking so have they built in a weak spot or not heat treated it afterwards to get rid of the residual stresses in the parent metal or something?

Maybe all Gixxer riders should trade them in (or is that send them to the scrapyard) on a steel framed Honda Hornet then you can wheelie to your hearts content without worrying about the front end falling off.

[boomer]

Hey there I was down in ChCh in the weekend kind of checking out the bike shops and I stopped and had a good look at the Gixxer 1000 the Suzuki dudes had in the showroom on Manchester Street.

Now has this got anything to do with the problem? The latest model frame has a complete welded connection on both sides right where they are said to be breaking so have they built in a weak spot or not heat treated it afterwards to get rid of the residual stresses in the parent metal or something?

Maybe all Gixxer riders should trade them in (or is that send them to the scrapyard) on a steel framed Honda Hornet then you can wheelie to your hearts content without worrying about the front end falling off.

no worries there.. i cant wheelie.

and for the dudes that can.. who needs handlebars?

i'll let you know when mine gives up the ghost.



on a side note, the mind is a funny thing. I could have sworn i saw Dan crossing the road today as i drove to work, on a second glance .. the geeza looked nothing like him.

God speed Dan !