Going faster safely

[HDTboy]

Going fast on a Motorcycle is great fun, we all know that, from the learner who is experincing how fast 70KM/H feels without glass surrounding you, through to the best MotoGP racers. I'll bet even Hitcher and Ixion love going fast from time to time.

Crashing hurts. Those who have crashed will agree with me, and those who haven't shouldn't be in a hurry to find out. Crashing hurts your body, your pride, and your wallet, in no particular order.

If you could spend a known amount of money (say $2000) to make you a better, faster rider, while at the same time reducing the likelyhood of crashing, how would you spend it?

I've added a poll with the things I've thought of which most people might consider.

[Goblin]

If you could spend a known amount of money (say $2000) to make you a better, faster rider, while at the same time reducing the likelyhood of crashing, how would you spend it?
LOTS of Bourbon!! :headbang:






P/T




ps. I'll vote on the poll when it's up.

[Karma]

If you could spend a known amount of money (say $2000) to make you a better, faster rider, while at the same time reducing the likelyhood of crashing, how would you spend it?

I want one of those batman suits, so that it doesn't hurt if I fall off :D

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Me too.........except Glenfiddich ......mmmmm:yes:

[HDTboy]

Shit you lot don't fuck around, do you?

My pole is up Goblin

[Goblin]

Shit you lot don't fuck around, do you?

My pole is up GoblinIs it? :confused:
Funny....I didn't feel a thing.


Seriously....I'd get Ratty's engine reconditioned and the suspension and brakes done too....but that might take more than 2k.

[Juud]

I don't really want go faster but always looking to improve on riding skills. An old trail bike would be great and fun, just to learn how to deal with unexpected moments on the bike (slides, lock ups etc) and not being afraid to dump it.

["D" FZ1]

Suspension of course. You can have all the horsepower in the world but it means nothing if your your bike doesn't handle.

[vifferman]

I've added a poll with the things I've thought of which most people might consider.
Yeah, but you screwed up - it should be multi-guess, not single choice. Especially for those of us who can't make up our minds. Or even get our various minds to agree on simple things like what to have for breakfast, whether to go to work or not, stuff like that.

[HDTboy]

How many $2000 blocks can you afford to spend on your motorcycling? I can't really afford to even spend that much.

WaiYam, Daryl Smith had stock suspension in his R1 right through the Vicclub winter series

Goblin, if that's the case with ratty, why not spend the $2000 on a newer bike?

[bugjuice]

I've had to click other.

I'd spend it on better tyres, brakes and suspension tuning, and then the remaining cash on track days.

That's what has got me this far, and I've *touches his wood* not crashed yet.

Oh, and the ultimate freebie - LISTENING!!!! absorb what others around you are telling you. As long as it's not purified BS

[Karma]

and I've *touches his wood* not crashed yet.

NOW you've gone and done it!

[skelstar]

Faster-safer on the road or faster-safer on the track?

[HDTboy]

I've had to click other.

I'd spend it on better tyres, brakes and suspension tuning, and then the remaining cash on track days.

That's what has got me this far, and I've *touches his wood* not crashed yet.

Oh, and the ultimate freebie - LISTENING!!!! absorb what others around you are telling you. As long as it's not purified BS

How much were your tyres?
How much were the Brakes?
How much was the Ohlins shock?

Good point on the listening to the right people though.


Skelator: Whichever tickles your pickle. From my experience, faster and safer on the track translates to the road anyway.

[Quartermile]

I would have to go with the 4 day course:yes:

[Jantar]

I would add a laser Jammer then deposit the remainder with the New Zealand Police as payment of fines in advance.

[texmo]

Keith Codes' Superbike School at Eastern creek in Sydney (one day)

[ManDownUnder]

Is it? :confused:
Funny....I didn't feel a thing.

:rofl::killingme ... shit - no more bling for Goblin... :rofl::killingme

[Toast]

Suspension set up and practice...preferably track, but road cna be good too.

[imdying]

Personal tuition from an international New Zealand Racer at a trackday (four days)


That was my choice, but $2000 for 4 days is pretty steep unless it is 1 on 1?

[The Pastor]

I'd spend it on brakes and susspension, mainly brakes as I curntly cant use my fronts :P

[avgas]

Not work for a couple of weeks and do some night runs (cannonballnz etc)

[bugjuice]

How much were your tyres?
How much were the Brakes?
How much was the Ohlins shock?

Good point on the listening to the right people though.

Tyres = $600
Brakes = $150
Ohlins it isn't. Uses it's parts, but it's not a fully fledged piece. $600 all set up from Shaun.
Crapping my pants going faster in every turn? Priceless

[HDTboy]

Personal tuition from an international New Zealand Racer at a trackday (four days)


That was my choice, but $2000 for 4 days is pretty steep unless it is 1 on 1?

I was thinking of one on one, or perhaps two students to one pro racer

[skelstar]

I reckon faster-safer on the track is waaaaay different to on the road. Not so much risk management on the track. In theory I could go as fast as I am capable of on the track, but theres no way I would risk doing that on the road.

So in the context of the road, what is faster-safer?

In the context of faster on the road - no substitute for long kms (i.e long SI trip).

[HDTboy]

I reckon faster-safer on the track is waaaaay different to on the road. Not so much risk management on the track. In theory I could go as fast as I am capable of on the track, but theres no way I would risk doing that on the road.

So in the context of the road, what is faster-safer?

In the context of faster on the road - no substitute for long kms (i.e long SI trip).

I see your point. What I meant was if you spend your time on the track extending your personal limits, then when you get back onto the road you'll be riding well within your limits, and find yourself going faster, while still being observant, and feeling safer and more confident.

I agree that seat time is handy on the road, but one can practise being observant, and defensive driving while in a car as well

[Roj]

Part of this chosing the bike you ride, I don't ride fast, and my bike does all I want, back in the dim distant past I tried to go as fast as I could. This is the start as far as I am concerned.

Tyres wear out so they don't really count specifically, I try to buy the best tyre to suit my riding any time I replace them.

All apsects of the bike itself are part of what will allow you to go faster but unless you are a top race rider, it is likely that your bike is able to handle everything you can put it through, so knowledge and experience are my key things to improve riding:scooter:

[Switch]

I'ld have to say upgrade to a better safer bike. Mainly because im on a 250, so once i get my full, i guess i'ld have to go with the NZ training over 4 days, and practice i guess.

[ZeroIndex]

I would have to say, put the money in my bank account and I'll tell everyone that you're fast

[skelstar]

What I meant was if you spend your time on the track extending your personal limits...
Ok, considering my attitude when riding and the bike I ride, 8 trackdays wouldn't help me as much as spending the money on suspension mods I reckon.

Bugger power upgrades :weird:

[bugjuice]

yeah, no point gettin more power when you don't know how to use what you've already got

[Maha]

The 'right now' answer is i would spend it on suspension....it going to cost around that amount away...either that or 'Maha party' number 4 will be unforgetable...:thud:

[texmo]

I think half you people are missing the point that ride a bike is a dangerous sport. These are only ways to make the activity safer, you cant control when that oil spill will appear or when that car will pull out in front of you.

[MOTOXXX]

id go to training days.

at least they will help you setup suspension

then id use what money i had left to do suspension, tyres and breaks

[JayRacer37]

I said other...
Depend what you want. For safer on the road, surely a riding school of some descrepion, focusing on bike control.
For faster...well, what floats your boat?? I'd be keen to buy a touring rear tyre for a superbike, then pay for a few track days...that should teach you rear end control preeety quckly! Plus, I like slides....
Or you could go for suspension. Or horsepower. But bikes these days are so awesome that you can be damn near as fast as anyone out there on a stocker. I was at Manfeild on that R6. In saying that, i'll go for an Ohlins shock at every oppertunity.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I chose 4 day thing. Get properly trained. And go as fast as I can on the track. The speed limit on the road is 100kph (so I'm told lol) Can always keep learning tho.

[desmo dave]

big bore kit v2 camshalfts track training if there is any change.

[Kinje]

Gotta get trained up and know how to use what you've got. No point in having all the horsepower in the world if you don't know how to use it.

If I had any change from my 4 days, I'd probably then look at suspension setup etc, though I may learn better tips throught the training.

[RC1]

why not spend the $2000 on a newer bike?

what sort of newer faster bike will $2OOO get you ???

[Big Dave]

Very easy - Ohlins shock.
Done it 3 times and the single best improvement I've made to any bike. By some margin.
Spend the change on Race Tech fork springs. Job and $2k done.

[HDTboy]

what sort of newer faster bike will $2OOO get you ???

One which is $2000 better than the one you've already got if you use your own as part of the deal.

[Keystone19]

I picked other 'cause i wanted to pick two of the options. Or maybe it was just cause I couldn't decide. I already have ohlins on my race bike, I'd prolly do the track days anyways, the coaching from the top NZ racer - well, it would depend on who it was. My experience suggests that some are better than others at coaching - they're all bloody good riders but not necessarily good instructors. Sooo...maybe that just leaves Superbike School in Oz...but I wouldn't go for just one day, I'd do the two back-to-back days and put aside some so I could go back and do the last two days and prolly at Philip Island not Eastern Creek. But that would be more than $2000. Oh well!

Good poll though!

[HenryDorsetCase]

I would spent two large by putting it toward tuition (Superbike school, Freddie Spencer's school in Utah, the one at Phil Island, the Ducati one at Imola). then if I had more to spend it would go on suspension, tyres etc. If I had any money left i would spend it on strippers.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Very easy - Ohlins shock.
Done it 3 times and the single best improvement I've made to any bike. By some margin.
Spend the change on Race Tech fork springs. Job and $2k done.

I agree with this also. I couldnt believe the difference it made.

[Ixion]

Going fast on a Motorcycle is great fun, we all know that, from the learner who is experincing how fast 70KM/H feels without glass surrounding you, through to the best MotoGP racers. I'll bet even Hitcher and Ixion love going fast from time to time.

Crashing hurts. Those who have crashed will agree with me, and those who haven't shouldn't be in a hurry to find out. Crashing hurts your body, your pride, and your wallet, in no particular order.

.

Oh, indubitably. Nothing wrong with going fast, at the right time and place.

Since the greatest danger when going fast on NZ roads is Mr Plod, I'd spend some on a laser jammer and a scanner. That would cover increased safety, and higher speed. For greater crash resistance, I guess some one on one tution . Assuming a suitable tutor could be found. Something like the police biker courses, focused on fast and safe on the road.

I don't believe track days contribute anything to road riding the conditions are too different.

[SPman]

...
I don't believe track days contribute anything to road riding the conditions are too different.
Oooooooo, that'll get them going...........

[Hitcher]

I've said it before: I don't think trackdays experience means you will be a better or safer road rider. Keith Code may be able to get you around Eastern Creek more quickly than previously, but I can't see those skills helping to get you out of town more quickly or safely on Easter Thursday afternoon.

[skelstar]

I wonder if doing two fast days at Philip Island with the pros would just make you fast at Philip Island?

[Goblin]

I don't believe track days contribute anything to road riding the conditions are too different.


I've said it before: I don't think trackdays experience means you will be a better or safer road rider. Keith Code may be able to get you around Eastern Creek more quickly than previously, but I can't see those skills helping to get you out of town more quickly or safely on Easter Thursday afternoon.
I have to ask you both if you have had any track time at all? Having been strictly a road rider for 20+ years myself, then doing some track days, I found I became so much more aware of all the dangers/threats facing me each time I got out on the road again. I dont ride any faster on the road than I used to but I do have a whole new level of awareness because of the time I have spent on the track. My riding has improved on the track as well as on the road.

[Motu]

I'd do an American Supercamp with Chris Carr - shit,being taught how to go sideways on 100cc bikes by the fastest motorcycle rider on the planet would cap off my career perfectly.

http://www.americansupercamp.com/newsletter/2002fall.pdf

[FROSTY]

Right here right now No question id be splitting my money down the middle. Half spent on suspension setup and half spent on rider training.

[Drew]

Safely???

I'd spend it on the mods, reasons are...


If someone is wanting more speed, they'd have to be well spastic to not know how to handle the speed they already have.

In my experience, you can find yourself going too fast on a CB125, so what you're bike is capable of is irrelivent.

Track time and raod k's are invaluble as a tool for going faster, and I've had loads of both, dont get me wrong, I cock it up and enter corners too fast frequently, but my experience has taught me what I need to do to increase my chances of riding out the other end, rather than sliding on my arse.

I dont think there is any one thing that can be done to increase speed safely, but I find myself as close to the limit as I feel comfortable at times, and think some tuning and mods would raise that limit to give me back some kind of buffer.

My thoughts only, if anyone thinks I'm all shit and a blow hard, they are welcome to eat my excriment:yes:




(Had to add the last bit, because I realised I hadn't contradicted anyone, or made blatent abusive comments.)

[Drew]

I wonder if doing two fast days at Philip Island with the pros would just make you fast at Philip Island?

I wondered this same thing when I started getting faster at Manfield, and it turns out ...NO.

My riding has gotten faster every time and place I give it a push. Because spending time pushing your bike, is what teaches you how it'll react.

Track knowledge is a BIG deal for racing, road or track, but doesn't make a difference to the skill levels.

[Hitcher]

I have to ask you both if you have had any track time at all?

Not yet. Find me a circuit with off-camber corners, pea gravel, road kill on your corner line, SUVs going the other way and corrugations in the braking zone. And some reason for using the brakes for purposes other than just scrubbing off speed -- maybe this ideal circuit could have random jay walkers or flocks of sheep that meandered across the start-finish straight.

[Goblin]

Not yet. Does that mean you might give it a go?

[Goblin]

Not yet. Find me a circuit with off-camber corners, pea gravel, road kill on your corner line, SUVs going the other way and corrugations in the braking zone. And some reason for using the brakes for purposes other than just scrubbing off speed -- maybe this ideal circuit could have random jay walkers or flocks of sheep that meandered across the start-finish straight.Sounds like the road to Whangamomona!

[Ixion]

I have to ask you both if you have had any track time at all? ...

Not for somewhat over 30 years. And then things were very different, "track days" weren't really invented then.

But I do not have a sprotsbike. An RT BMW on a track would be ludicrous. ffwabbitt would do well enough motarded, but I do not wish to do that. Petal does not accept that corners have any right to exist. Do you have any tracks that are just long straights and sweeping curves ? The Titan is the only one that would be at all suitable, and if it were thirty years younger I might think of it. But now, spare parts are rare and expensive, and thirty years hard smoking deserves a more gentle hand.

And I agree with Mr Hitcher's comments. The track is a very artificial world.

[HDTboy]

Not yet. Find me a circuit with off-camber corners, pea gravel, road kill on your corner line, SUVs going the other way and corrugations in the braking zone. And some reason for using the brakes for purposes other than just scrubbing off speed -- maybe this ideal circuit could have random jay walkers or flocks of sheep that meandered across the start-finish straight.

What would you do then?

Ixion, you can say what you like about being old, Weestromer's pretty old and has recently discovered the joy of the track

[Goblin]

And I agree with Mr Hitcher's comments. The track is a very artificial world.Until you try it for yourself.:yes: I used to think the same thing too. How can riding around and around the same bit of road teach you anything? After I had done a couple of trackdays it dawned on me that I didn't have to "think" so much about my riding and could spend that extra energy on being even more aware of what was going on around me. If anything, my track experience has slowed me down on the road. FWIW, my Ratty has now been around Manfield and Taupo tracks, despite her age and condition.:innocent:

[Big Dave]

I don't believe track days contribute anything to road riding

I sure do. Once you've survived as long as you and I the point may be moot, but for the less experienced:

Experience in emegency situations for starters. you get a number of 'on the edge' moments on a track that could replicate the reactions required dealing with hazards encountered in day to day riding. Oil spill - loss of traction. it's all experience.

The best way to hit a golf ball accurately 250mts is to practice trying to hit it 300mts over and over again.

It's like Riding on the road is much easier after trying to go fast on the dirt.

Controlling a road bike is at legal speeds is easier if you are confident enough to do it flat maggot too. You don't have to live at it - but a session or two wouldn't hurt everyone.

The problem is the pea brain who then rides like the road is a swept smooth race track.

[cowpoos]

And I agree with Mr Hitcher's comments. The track is a very artificial world.


Not yet. Find me a circuit with off-camber corners, pea gravel, road kill on your corner line, SUVs going the other way and corrugations in the braking zone. And some reason for using the brakes for purposes other than just scrubbing off speed -- maybe this ideal circuit could have random jay walkers or flocks of sheep that meandered across the start-finish straight.


If you find your self way to fast for the group you are in [like the lack of a race group at MOTT days] its like riding around on a track full of dumb sheep and SUV driving women off to get the kids....braking at strange times wobbling around corners....

[cowpoos]

and as for my opinion....well....you'll come to your own conclusion your self I reckon...if I were you I would buy good safty gear and race as much as possible....your not slow!!! just need to learn restraint a bit at times...


much easier to teach a fast rider not to crash than teach a slow rider that don't crash to ride fast!

[cowpoos]

and don't your bike already got a Ohlins shock?

[Horney1]

I said "other" because it's a combination of everything.

I think a good CHEAP start is to buy the Keith Code books, read, learn, understand and practice them.

More safe on the roads: improve your reflexes, try catching a fly with chopsticks, anticipate, smell the air, note the road surfaces, understand how your bike works and maintain it well.

Learn to maximise what you've got already unless you actually want to beat someone immediately (and really the track is the place for that 10/10 stuff). Wear some armour! Lighten the bike etc etc. If you just want to get out and challenge others (& yourself) and have a good time do what Goblin's and others have done, get a cheap road bike and just get out there on the track and give it a go. You'll end up meeting people and learning a lot along the way. But, a good start is to clock up those kilometers in the weekend.

DON'T OUTRIDE YOUR OWN ABILITIES! Going fast is easy, emergency stopping and avoiding disaster and unforseen hazards, well, those are a different matters all together. It can all happen very very fast. (Hehe - even the low speed offs around corners with a little gravel on them for example!)

As some have mentioned they have track training here in Melbourne (quite a few days, in fact) but what's the point if you can do some schools in NZ. We Kiwis have had lots of world class riders over the years! Here's a link if you want to follow up on the Phillip Island school.

http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/

http://www.phillipislandcircuit.com.au/

[jtzzr]

Mate you don`t have to go faster , you need to make everyone else slower , let down some tyre pressures , change the suspension settings , spit in the tank , I just saved you 2k and I need a loan . Hope this helps . What does it cost for a turbo for a blackbird?

[smoky]

the best radar money can buy and a stelth suit:Punk:

[Big Dave]

Mate you don`t have to go faster , you need to make everyone else slower , let down some tyre pressures , change the suspension settings , spit in the tank , I just saved you 2k and I need a loan . Hope this helps . What does it cost for a turbo for a blackbird?

There will be a position for you in the new order too.

[HDTboy]

It's not about me, it's about what you would do.

I think I know what I need to do as my next step in going faster safely

[skelstar]

I think I know what I need to do as my next step in going faster safely
Apart from 'healing', is it to own F3 this year?

[HDTboy]

The Collarbone's healed pretty well mate. I'll be doing the winter series in F1 and F2, but do need to learn how to ride my bike before then

[skelstar]

Yeah I knew you did F1/2, just thought moving down a class was a possible strategy.

Guess I kinda had a similar conversation with someone else last night.

[HDTboy]

It would be a strategy if I hadn't just gone and bought a 600.


Back to the topic at hand

[rwh]

I don't believe track days contribute anything to road riding the conditions are too different.

I haven't done a track day yet, and I've only got 6 months experience on the road, but I'm guessing that this will depend a lot on how good you are already.

Firstly I'd like to practice on the track to get my riding much smoother under conditions where I don't have to worry about oncoming traffic, unknown surfaces etc. Then when I'm back on the road, I can concentrate on those things and the smooth riding will just happen.

Secondly if I'm happy going round corners much faster than I want to on the road, then if I do overcook it a bit I'll still be able to handle it.

If you're already happy with your experience in both those areas, then sure maybe the track won't help much any more.

Richard

[Arthur]

I picked spending the money on another (dirt) bike. Only cos thats where I learnt how to ride. More to the point though, I would go out and buy a motocross bike, fairly recent model (within three years old), and then go to something like Daryll King's motocross school. There you learn how to get (and keep) a bike under control in some fairly knarley conditions... While going really fast... :yes:

[Toaster]

I take the money and go for an overseas holiday... planes are fast and relatively safe :)

[Skyryder]

I'd hire that strip of road that goes to Mt Cook.

Skyyrder

[scracha]

Going fast on a Motorcycle is great fun, we all know that, from the learner who is experincing how fast 70KM/H feels without glass surrounding you, through

Depends if you wanted to go faster on the road or on the track no?

[Drew]

Depends if you wanted to go faster on the road or on the track no?

Not as I see it, increased ability on either, equates to increased safety and speed on either.

Under real race conditions however, I think it is all about winning, so I'll push as hard as I can, and often go WAY past my comfort zone, and into the dangerous to get the desired result, so safety goes out the window a bit.